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View Full Version : Football Reason why people doubt Croyle? Brodie Croyle = Charlie Frye


SNR
05-05-2008, 06:43 PM
Frye was a 3rd rounder as well (that's not the real reason why) but think about it. Similar playing styles, and when Frye was starting, they were both in inexperienced or terrible offensive systems.

Most objective people view the two QBs as practically the same. I doubt many of us Chiefs fans were thinking Charlie Frye was the next Bernie Kosar in Cleveland, and they probably think the same of Croyle.

That doesn't mean Thigpen is going to pull a Derek Anderson and leave Croyle's career in the dust or anything, but it's a reason why most people doubt him.

KurtCobain
05-05-2008, 07:43 PM
I think thigpen will be the next derek anderson! He was a sixth round pick castoff too, right?

thigpen mania!!!!!!!

dj56dt58
05-05-2008, 07:46 PM
so because Brodie was drafted in the 3rd round he is Charlie Frye?? So nobody should draft a qb in the 3rd round again? Why didnt we just draft someone in the 6th round because then he would be tom Brady!!!

Christ people

Mecca
05-05-2008, 07:48 PM
so because Brodie was drafted in the 3rd round he is Charlie Frye?? So nobody should draft a qb in the 3rd round again? Why didnt we just draft someone in the 6th round because then he would be tom Brady!!!

Christ people

Joe Montana is the last successful QB from the 3rd round, I know that's weird but it's true....the 6th round has produced more successful QB's than the 3rd 4th and 5th combined.

KurtCobain
05-05-2008, 07:49 PM
Joe Montana is the last successful QB from the 3rd round, I know that's weird but it's true....the 6th round has produced more successful QB's than the 3rd 4th and 5th combined.

Let's see some examples of 6th versus popular 3rd and 4th round choise of late.

dj56dt58
05-05-2008, 07:51 PM
Joe Montana is the last successful QB from the 3rd round, I know that's weird but it's true....the 6th round has produced more successful QB's than the 3rd 4th and 5th combined.

that doesnt mean anything..do u guys think the 3rd round is cursed for qbs or something?

Mecca
05-05-2008, 07:51 PM
that doesnt mean anything..do u guys think the 3rd round is cursed for qbs or something?


It's just a weird stat, truthfully to get a top notch QB you usually have to use a 1st round pick, you're alot more likely to be the Colts than say the Pats who got extremely lucky.

BigMeatballDave
05-05-2008, 08:24 PM
hes had many chances to prove himself and has always shown he is not a good QB at all. . not even a good backup.. He was successful in college. He's just not very durable. We'll see this season.

RustShack
05-05-2008, 08:25 PM
Its official, we need to draft a QB in the 6th round next year.

CHIEF MARLBORO
05-05-2008, 08:29 PM
Bullshit Frye is Croyle. Frye has average arm strength. Croyle has one of the top five-to-seven cannons in football

Der Flöprer
05-05-2008, 08:30 PM
Bullshit Frye is Croyle. Frye has average arm strength. Croyle has one of the top five five-to-seven cannons in football

You are sofa king pimp.

Brock
05-05-2008, 08:30 PM
He is a QB drafted by the Chiefs. Why wouldn't you doubt him?

Rausch
05-05-2008, 09:06 PM
Croyle clearly has ability far above what should be given him due to his build.

And he can run.

But what makes a QB is knowing when to throw to whom, at the right time, with the right ball placement, according to the WR's route.

He has an X factor but that alone doesn't balance the equation...

SNR
05-05-2008, 09:26 PM
so because Brodie was drafted in the 3rd round he is Charlie Frye?? So nobody should draft a qb in the 3rd round again? Why didnt we just draft someone in the 6th round because then he would be tom Brady!!!

Christ people

Umm... no...

Frye was a 3rd rounder as well (that's not the real reason why)

SNR
05-05-2008, 09:29 PM
This is about why people doubt him. Lately anybody around here who takes a potshot at Croyle is similar to a guy who takes a potshot at our amazing draft. I'm just trying to make a comparison why people think this way.

I don't like to get into it about whether he'll turn out or not. I don't win a cookie if I'm right or not, so why bother.

Chiefmanwillcatch
05-05-2008, 09:51 PM
Brody does a good job when given time to throw.

Played well at Alabama too.

Buehler445
05-05-2008, 09:58 PM
I'm in the Croyle camp. I've been over this several times, but nothing I saw from any of the draftees play impressed me significantly more than what I've seen from Croyle. Others may disagree. They probably know more about football than I do, but Croyle is what we've got and I'm going to support him. It will take time for him to develop, and I'm willing to give it to him before I start calling for his head.

Ebolapox
05-05-2008, 10:01 PM
Let's see some examples of 6th versus popular 3rd and 4th round choise of late.

marc bulger and tom brady come to mind.

milkman
05-05-2008, 10:56 PM
i think its because he's a fragile talentless loser. . hes had many chances to prove himself and has always shown he is not a good QB at all. . not even a good backup..

If we added the IQ of a a sandbox to yours, we'd come up with 0.

Rausch
05-05-2008, 10:57 PM
If we added the IQ of a a sandbox to yours, we'd come up with 0.

And 4 cat turds...

B_Ambuehl
05-05-2008, 11:23 PM
Matt Hasselbeck was also selected in the 6th round.

SNR
05-05-2008, 11:28 PM
your so witty. . :clap:yah i know, write???/

DaneMcCloud
05-06-2008, 12:09 AM
Croyle is what we've got and I'm going to support him. It will take time for him to develop, and I'm willing to give it to him before I start calling for his head.

Did you support Jordan Black with the same passion? How about Julian Battle? William Bartee? Donnell Bennett?

Supporting "who we've got" is just plain dumb. Croyle's had two full seasons to make some kind of dent, to show that he's got something going on, and he's fallen flat on his face.

Additionally, why give him time to "develop"? Trent Edwards stepped in mid-season and kicked ass for the Bills. He was a third rounder. Derrick Anderson was a free-agent, formerly 6th rounder and he whooped the Chiefs ass in 2005, basically denying them a playoff spot.

So WHY should the Chiefs wait around for Croyle to "develop"?

What if he's already "developed" and he is what he is?

DaneMcCloud
05-06-2008, 12:10 AM
I think thigpen will be the next derek anderson! He was a sixth round pick castoff too, right?

thigpen mania!!!!!!!

No.

Thigpen was a 7th.

DaneMcCloud
05-06-2008, 12:11 AM
Let's see some examples of 6th versus popular 3rd and 4th round choise of late.

Why don't you research yourself?

Ugly Duck
05-06-2008, 12:27 AM
Its official, we need to draft a QB in the 6th round next year.

You'll have another Top 5 pick... go for a 1st round QB this time!

DaWolf
05-06-2008, 12:27 AM
Very few quarterbacks are good without protection. For a recent example see Green, Trent...

DaneMcCloud
05-06-2008, 12:32 AM
Very few quarterbacks are good without protection. For a recent example see Green, Trent...

Yeah, because ALL QB's lose football games without HOF offensive lines...:rolleyes:

JFC.

DaWolf
05-06-2008, 01:02 AM
Yeah, because ALL QB's lose football games without HOF offensive lines...:rolleyes:

JFC.

Very few win football games without decent protection, especially young QB's...

Short Leash Hootie
05-06-2008, 01:03 AM
Joe Montana is the last successful QB from the 3rd round, I know that's weird but it's true....the 6th round has produced more successful QB's than the 3rd 4th and 5th combined.

It's only a matter of time...

DaneMcCloud
05-06-2008, 01:50 AM
Very few win football games without decent protection, especially young QB's...

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

If Croyle were worth a f*cking shit, he would have pulled out a win in ONE of his appearances.

ONE.

Chiefaholic
05-06-2008, 02:42 AM
Yeah, because ALL QB's lose football games without HOF offensive lines...:rolleyes:

JFC.

Last years O-Line doesn't even qualify as practice squad material. Saint Manning himself looked pretty average himself laying flat on his back his first year in the league. While Croyle isn't a Manning caliber of QB, he sure as hell isn't as bad as he looked last year when he was thrown to the wolves in front of the turnstile they refeered to as an O-Line. Give the guy 3-4 seconds to throw the damn ball befor you throw him under the bus.

DaneMcCloud
05-06-2008, 02:49 AM
Last years O-Line doesn't even qualify as practice squad material. Saint Manning himself looked pretty average himself laying flat on his back his first year in the league. While Croyle isn't a Manning caliber of QB, he sure as hell isn't as bad as he looked last year when he was thrown to the wolves in front of the turnstile they refeered to as an O-Line. Give the guy 3-4 seconds to throw the damn ball befor you throw him under the bus.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. :rolleyes:


I can't WAIT for this issue to be settled.

Everytime someone in the National Media says Croyle isn't the answer, people get defensive.

Besides the fact the guy has been nothing but injured during his pro career (much like his high-school and college career) and the fact he hasn't won ONE game.

What will be the excuse in 2009?

AND, how did Damon Huard (who is freaking AWFUL) manage to win 4 games?

Please explain.

ChiefsCountry
05-06-2008, 03:00 AM
He came pretty close to beating Peyton Manning in his first start. Not to mention not getting a chance in OT against the Jets.

Huard had a pretty big factor in the backfield with him, LJ. I would venture to say that LJ had more to do with Huard winning than Huard did.

DaneMcCloud
05-06-2008, 03:08 AM
He came pretty close to beating Peyton Manning in his first start. Not to mention not getting a chance in OT against the Jets.

Huard had a pretty big factor in the backfield with him, LJ. I would venture to say that LJ had more to do with Huard winning than Huard did.

He still lost.

Did you love Bill Kenney as well?

Reerun_KC
05-06-2008, 03:19 AM
This is such a lame arguement right now...

I would like to see Croyle play on a team that didnt quit on its coach the last half of the season...

I would like to see a Croyle play on a team thats coach didnt quit on his team during the Indy game...

I am willing to give Croyle a year, we shouldnt even have this debate right now, but NO genious Carl had to have Horrid start last year... Now that we have wasted a year, all the QB experts know Croyle is a bust, before we even get a chance to really evaluate the kid...

Miles
05-06-2008, 03:27 AM
This is such a lame arguement right now...

I would like to see Croyle play on a team that didnt quit on its coach the last half of the season...

I would like to see a Croyle play on a team thats coach didnt quit on his team during the Indy game...

I am willing to give Croyle a year, we shouldnt even have this debate right now, but NO genious Carl had to have Horrid start last year... Now that we have wasted a year, all the QB experts know Croyle is a bust, before we even get a chance to really evaluate the kid...

Ah I see, its just Carl and Herm's fault he didn't play well.

kcchiefsus
05-06-2008, 03:54 AM
Did you support Jordan Black with the same passion? How about Julian Battle? William Bartee? Donnell Bennett?

Supporting "who we've got" is just plain dumb. Croyle's had two full seasons to make some kind of dent, to show that he's got something going on, and he's fallen flat on his face.

Additionally, why give him time to "develop"? Trent Edwards stepped in mid-season and kicked ass for the Bills. He was a third rounder. Derrick Anderson was a free-agent, formerly 6th rounder and he whooped the Chiefs ass in 2005, basically denying them a playoff spot.

So WHY should the Chiefs wait around for Croyle to "develop"?

What if he's already "developed" and he is what he is?

And look what Trent Edwards had. One of the best left tackles in the game, a very good left guard, a solid free agent signing with right tackle Langston Walker, and two other at least solid linemen. The Bills gave up 26 sacks last season, 29 less than our crappy line gave up.

And Trent Edwards kicked ass? I didn't realize 7 touchdowns, 8 interceptions, 56.1% completions, 70.4 QB rating, and 4 fumbles was considered as "kicking ass." Your standards of kicking ass are pretty low. By your standards Brodie Croyle kicked ass last year as well.

Compared to Croyle's 6 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, 56.7% completions, 69.9 QB rating, and 4 fumbles how exactly was Trent Edwards any better than Croyle? Besides the superior offensive line Edwards had he also had a great rookie runningback which is a big improvement over Croyle not getting to play a single game with Larry Johnson.

Anderson was also playing behind a line that even without Eric Seinbach and Joe Thomas was easily better than the piece of crap line that we fielded last year.

But your right, 2 years is PLENTY of time to judge a quarterback. I mean, it took Trent Green 5 years to start his first game in the NFL. What were those idiots thinking keeping him around? I'm glad we never trusted him as a starter. It's not like he could put up three straight seasons with 4,000+ yards and 5 straight seasons with 3,500+ yards. And that damn Tony Romo. It's a good thing the Cowboys got rid of him after he didn't start a single game his first three seasons in the league. Oh, wait a second. Oh, and David Garrard starting 8 games through his first 4 seasons in the league? It's obvious he doesn't have what it takes to lead his team to the playoffs. And how about that Jake Delhomme guy? It's pretty obvious that a guy who only started 2 games through his first 5 seasons in the NFL does NOT have what it takes to lead a team like the Carolina Panthers to the super bowl.


You are absolutely right. If a quarterback isn't an all pro by his 2nd season in the NFL he is a complete shitwad and will never be any better than he already is. I'm glad you enlightened us. It's a good thing nobody wasted their time with the Treng Green's, Tony Romo's, David Garrard's, and Jake Delhomme's of the world.

kcchiefsus
05-06-2008, 03:55 AM
You'll have another Top 5 pick... go for a 1st round QB this time!

And so will you shithead.

kcchiefsus
05-06-2008, 04:02 AM
Sorry, I just don't buy it.

If Croyle were worth a f*cking shit, he would have pulled out a win in ONE of his appearances.

ONE.

As a rookie, if Troy Aikman was worth a f*cking shit, he would have pulled out a win in ONE of his 11 appearances. But he didn't. He went 0-11 as a starter. It's a good thing that team didn't waste any time giving up on Troy Aikman. I mean, if he could have at least won one game. That's the last guy I would predict to make the hall of fame.

kcchiefsus
05-06-2008, 04:07 AM
Yeah, yeah, yeah. :rolleyes:


I can't WAIT for this issue to be settled.

Everytime someone in the National Media says Croyle isn't the answer, people get defensive.

Besides the fact the guy has been nothing but injured during his pro career (much like his high-school and college career) and the fact he hasn't won ONE game.

What will be the excuse in 2009?

AND, how did Damon Huard (who is freaking AWFUL) manage to win 4 games?

Please explain.

Isn't it interesting the one variable besides the quarterback change that happened at the same time? I'm sure it is just a coincidence that we won 4 games with Larry Johnson in the lineup but we didn't win a single game without him. Nope, it's just a coincidence. That is clearly not a factor. What is a factor is that Damon Huard's 11 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, and 76.8 quarterback rating was amazing and clearly superior to the play of Croyle. If only Croyle can match that amazing production. Again, it is very clear that our 9 game losing streak had nothing to do with losing a 2 time pro bowler and our best player on offense who caused teams to change their game plans. Definitely had NOTHING to do with it.:shake:

Reerun_KC
05-06-2008, 07:12 AM
Ah I see, its just Carl and Herm's fault he didn't play well.
:spock:

WOW, I rest my case.....

Coogs
05-06-2008, 09:39 AM
and the fact he hasn't won ONE game.


While this is true, Croyle did give the team a chance to win. Four times as a matter of fact. The first one was against the Bears when Huard was blowing chuncks the whole game. Croyle lead us on an impressive drive down the field that ended with a Bennett fumble. Against the Colts, Croyle had us in position to win a game absolutely no one thought we would win, and Solari wouldn't give him a chance. And in an ugly game against the Jets, we tied it up late only to lose the flip and the game (thank God). And maybe the best chance was this game against the Raiders. Here is the 4th quarter, which started with the Chiefs in front 17-13. Put this one on the defense and the kicker...

Kansas City Chiefs at 14:44
1-10-KC 38 (14:44) 21-K.Smith up the middle to KC 42 for 4 yards
2-6-KC 42 (14:05) 21-K.Smith right tackle to OAK 48 for 10 yards
1-10-OAK 48 (13:21) 21-K.Smith up the middle to OAK 49 for -1 yards
2-11-OAK 49 (12:40) 12-B.Croyle pass deep right to 82-D.Bowe ran ob at OAK 30 for 19 yards.
1-10-OAK 30 (12:26) 21-K.Smith up the middle to OAK 31 for -1 yards . PENALTY on OAK-24-M.Huff, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced at OAK 31.
1-10-OAK 16 (12:07) 21-K.Smith left end to OAK 16 for no gain
2-10-OAK 16 (11:19) 12-B.Croyle pass short right to 84-K.Wilson ran ob at OAK 15 for 1 yard.
3-9-OAK 15 (11:01) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short right to 88-T.Gonzalez.
4-9-OAK 15 (10:54) 6-D.Rayner 33 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left

Oakland Raiders at 10:51
1-10-OAK 23 (10:51) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep middle to 80-Z.Miller to KC 49 for 28 yards
1-10-KC 49 (10:06) (Shotgun) 8-D.Culpepper pass deep right to 84-J.Porter to KC 14 for 35 yards
1-10-KC 14 (9:40) 25-J.Fargas up the middle for 14 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
11-S.Janikowski extra point is GOOD
OAK 20 KC 17 Plays: 3 Possession: 1:17

Kansas City Chiefs at 09:34
11-S.Janikowski kicks 67 yards from OAK 30 to KC 3. 80-J.Webb to KC 25 for 22 yards
1-10-KC 25 (9:29) (Pass formation) PENALTY on KC-89-J.Dunn, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at KC 25 - No Play.
1-15-KC 20 (9:29) 12-B.Croyle pass short left to 82-D.Bowe to KC 32 for 12 yards
2-3-KC 32 (8:54) 21-K.Smith left end to KC 36 for 4 yards
1-10-KC 36 (8:11) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short right to 84-K.Wilson
2-10-KC 36 (8:06) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short middle to 88-T.Gonzalez to KC 48 for 12 yards
1-10-KC 48 (7:31) 21-K.Smith up the middle to OAK 46 for 6 yards
2-4-OAK 46 (6:48) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short right to 80-J.Webb.
3-4-OAK 46 (6:42) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at OAK 32 for 14 yards
1-10-OAK 32 (6:10) 21-K.Smith right tackle to OAK 29 for 3 yards
2-7-OAK 29 (5:27) 12-B.Croyle pass short right to 21-K.Smith to OAK 27 for 2 yards
3-5-OAK 27 (4:41) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short left to 87-E.Kennison to OAK 23 for 4 yards
Kansas City challenged the first down ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
Timeout #2 by KC at 04:26.
4-1-OAK 23 (4:26) 21-K.Smith left tackle to OAK 24 for -1 yards

Oakland Raiders at 04:22
1-10-OAK 24 (4:22) 25-J.Fargas up the middle to OAK 36 for 12 yards 1-10-OAK 36 (3:37) 25-J.Fargas right end pushed ob at OAK 47 for 11 yards 1-10-OAK 47 (3:31) 8-D.Culpepper pass short right to 89-R.Curry to KC 43 for 10 yards
1-10-KC 43 (2:45) 25-J.Fargas left tackle to KC 47 for -4 yards
Two-Minute Warning
2-14-KC 47 (1:59) 25-J.Fargas right tackle to KC 44 for 3 yards
Timeout #3 by KC at 01:54.
3-11-KC 44 (1:54) 25-J.Fargas right end to KC 23 for 21 yards
1-10-KC 23 (1:10) 8-D.Culpepper kneels to KC 24 for -1 yards.
2-11-KC 24 (:31) 8-D.Culpepper kneels to KC 25 for -1 yards.
END GAME

Brock
05-06-2008, 09:53 AM
Kansas City Chiefs at 02:10
1-10-KC 26 (2:10) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short right to 21-K.Smith to KC 24 for -2 yards (24-C.Bailey).
Two-Minute Warning
2-12-KC 24 (1:53) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short middle to 21-K.Smith to KC 33 for 9 yards (52-I.Gold).
3-3-KC 33 (1:36) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short middle to 21-K.Smith.
4-3-KC 33 (1:35) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass deep right to 82-D.Bowe ran ob at DEN 49 for 18 yards. Penalty on DEN-92-E.Dumervil, Defensive Offside, declined.
1-10-DEN 49 (1:30) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass deep left to 80-J.Webb pushed ob at DEN 32 for 17 yards. Penalty on DEN-41-K.Paymah, Defensive Pass Interference, declined.
1-10-DEN 32 (1:25) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete deep middle to 82-D.Bowe.
2-10-DEN 32 (1:19) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete deep right to 88-T.Gonzalez. PENALTY on DEN-92-E.Dumervil, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 32 - No Play.
2-5-DEN 27 (1:12) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete deep middle to 80-J.Webb (32-D.Bly). PENALTY on DEN-96-T.Crowder, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 27 - No Play.
1-10-DEN 22 (1:07) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short right to 88-T.Gonzalez.
2-10-DEN 22 (1:03) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short left to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at DEN 12 for 10 yards (21-H.Abdullah).
1-10-DEN 12 (:58) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short middle to 88-T.Gonzalez (52-I.Gold). PENALTY on DEN-99-A.McKinley, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 12 - No Play.
1-5-DEN 7 (:53) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short middle to 88-T.Gonzalez. PENALTY on DEN-92-E.Dumervil, Defensive Offside, 4 yards, enforced at DEN 7 - No Play.
1-1-DEN 3 (:49) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short left to 80-J.Webb.
2-1-DEN 3 (:46) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short left to 80-J.Webb.
3-1-DEN 3 (:40) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short right to 88-T.Gonzalez (32-D.Bly).
4-1-DEN 3 (:37) 12-B.Croyle sacked at DEN 15 for -12 yards (96-T.Crowder).
Denver Broncos at 00:31
1-10-DEN 15 (:31) 6-J.Cutler kneels to DEN 14 for -1 yards.
END GAME

KCChiefsFan88
05-06-2008, 10:01 AM
How can you expect Croyle or any QB to succeed behind the Chiefs offensive line?

Coogs
05-06-2008, 10:13 AM
Kansas City Chiefs at 02:10
.....
END GAME

Obviously Croyles incomplete passes while down 27-11 on that drive was the difference.

kcchiefsus
05-06-2008, 10:28 AM
Obviously Croyles incomplete passes while down 27-11 on that drive was the difference.

His incomplete passes do seem to be an issue but I think alot of that can be attributed to the fact that our receivers simply were not getting open last year. Even Bowe and Gonzalez had trouble getting open at times and Croyle had to make passes to them while they were blanketed by defenders. I actually blame alot of that on Mike Solari. His offense was simply unimaginative. It's almost like it was backyard football where you just go out and run this way or that way and do whatever it takes to get open. There never seemed to be any direction for the offense. Plays need to be designed to get certain players open. Hell, I remember Al Saunders saying how he would call a certain play in order to set up the offense to succeed on a future play. I really wish we still had Saunders. He gave the offense a sense of direction. We didn't have that from Solari. I'm confident Gailey will bring back a sense of direction to the offense.

I also am excited about the new weapons for Croyle. Our wide receivers don't seem to be that big of an upgrade but IMO:

Bowe,Webb, Darling, Franklin, Robinson >>>>>>>>>> Bowe, Kennison, Parker, Webb, Sippio

And perhaps some other young guys like Jabari Arthur or Maurice Price will step up. I really like our options alot more than what we had last year.

And our depth at tight end this year is going to be great IMO. Our depth last year sucked. Jason Dunn might as well have just been an extra offensive tackle out there because he was completely useless as a receiver. Brad Cottam can block but he will also be able to go out and be a good receiver. I'm sure Croyle will love having a 6'7" target to throw to. Gonzalez and Cottam on the field at the same time could be pretty good. And between Michael Merritt and Michael Allan I feel we will have a 3rd TE who will contribute more than Kris Wilson. I wouldn't mind keeping both and having 4 tight ends.

Jamaal Charles will not only help the running game but he could be an option in the passing game. He can split out wide on routes and he could be deadly on screens.

If Croyle sucks this year then we can go ahead and pass judgement but with the new weapons we have given him and an improved offensive line I am optimistic we will see alot of improvement.

Brock
05-06-2008, 10:31 AM
Obviously Croyles incomplete passes while down 27-11 on that drive was the difference.

Way to completely miss the point. :doh!:

BigChiefFan
05-06-2008, 10:34 AM
So everyone is just going to dismiss the year before? Huard had a worst line the year before last and he still managed, what's Mr. Toothpick's excuse?

blueballs
05-06-2008, 10:35 AM
first rounders fail left and right
baggers from HY-VE win MVPs
undrafted QBs are the darlings of the season and Jessica Simpson

Coogs
05-06-2008, 10:42 AM
Way to completely miss the point. :doh!:

I guess I did miss your point. What was it anyway? Crolye didn't complete passes when the Bronco's knew we were going to pass? Or Dumervil needs to be signed to play offense for the Chiefs? :D

Coogs
05-06-2008, 10:46 AM
If Croyle sucks this year then we can go ahead and pass judgement but with the new weapons we have given him and an improved offensive line I am optimistic we will see alot of improvement.

:thumb:

Pretty much agreed with your whole post. Especially this part.

ChiefsCountry
05-06-2008, 10:48 AM
So everyone is just going to dismiss the year before? Huard had a worst line the year before last and he still managed, what's Mr. Toothpick's excuse?

Larry Johnson, line was a problem but LJ not being in there was a bigger one IMO.

BigChiefFan
05-06-2008, 10:48 AM
He's got what he needs to make a rational decision about his play this upcoming year. I'm obviously pulling for him, but the guy hasn't exactly been lights out. This is a make or break year, IMO.

Coogs
05-06-2008, 10:52 AM
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/sports/default.aspx

This link should take you to NBC 41 out of KC. There is a link over on the right side to an interview with Croyle. He talks about how the terminology with Gailey is way easier than what it was under Solari. He thinks it will help everyone on the offense be able to just play instead of think all of the time.

Brock
05-06-2008, 10:55 AM
Did they get it dumbed down enough for him?

Coogs
05-06-2008, 10:59 AM
Did they get it dumbed down enough for him?

:shrug: Time will tell. He seemed to think it is going to benifit the whole offense, not just him. Maybe we won't see LJ flinging the ball in disgust after every play if it makes the jobs of the other 10 players on the offense a bit easier. And on many plays where we saw that it was to the left side. Maybe the terminology was tough for McIntosh to pick up as well.

And BTW, what was your point on the Denver post?

King_Chief_Fan
05-06-2008, 03:33 PM
David Green.........so what if Croyle is a bust. We got David Freaking Green

Pro Career

Left-handed quarterback was promoted Kansas City’s 53-man roster on December 29th … Originally was added to the club’s practice squad on December 6th … Possesses a strong arm and is capable of making every throw … Spent two seasons learning the game from Pro Bowl QB Matt Hasselbeck with Seattle (2005-06) ... Enjoyed a record-setting career as a four-year starter in college at Georgia … Holds school records for completions (849), attempts (1,440), passing yards (11,528) and touchdown passes (72) ... Finished his collegiate career with 42 victories, the most wins by a starting quarterback in NCAA Division I history.

sounds like he is just as promising as Broken Croyle.

kcchiefsus
05-06-2008, 04:30 PM
So everyone is just going to dismiss the year before? Huard had a worst line the year before last and he still managed, what's Mr. Toothpick's excuse?

How was the line the year before last worse? We still had Will Shields at right guard and Jordan Black was actually serviceable at left tackle. He also played with 1,700+ yard Larry Johnson.

HemiEd
05-06-2008, 05:44 PM
that doesnt mean anything..do u guys think the 3rd round is cursed for qbs or something?

They are all alcoholics, pay them no never mind.

Elwaysux
05-06-2008, 05:54 PM
Does Charlie Frye have a hot wife?

kcchiefsus
05-06-2008, 06:03 PM
I know it's not a huge improvement but I like that Croyle is up to 210. Get him up to 215 or 220 like they want him to and he will be fine. Players lose weight during the season anyways so it would be better for him to pack on the weight now.

Buehler445
05-06-2008, 09:36 PM
Did you support Jordan Black with the same passion? How about Julian Battle? William Bartee? Donnell Bennett?

Supporting "who we've got" is just plain dumb. Croyle's had two full seasons to make some kind of dent, to show that he's got something going on, and he's fallen flat on his face.

Additionally, why give him time to "develop"? Trent Edwards stepped in mid-season and kicked ass for the Bills. He was a third rounder. Derrick Anderson was a free-agent, formerly 6th rounder and he whooped the Chiefs ass in 2005, basically denying them a playoff spot.

So WHY should the Chiefs wait around for Croyle to "develop"?

What if he's already "developed" and he is what he is?

No I didn't but it doesn't take Battle or Black a long time to develop like it does a QB. These guys have done a pretty good job refuting your arguement.

But as far as me, I just haven't seen anything better than Croyle in the draft this year. If Brodie turns out to be the suckage, fine. It blows but fine. No skin off my back. But I'm not calling for his head until he's been given ample time to perform. Half a season with a worthless team that gave up before he started is not ample.

Reerun_KC
05-06-2008, 10:00 PM
No I didn't but it doesn't take Battle or Black a long time to develop like it does a QB. These guys have done a pretty good job refuting your arguement.

But as far as me, I just haven't seen anything better than Croyle in the draft this year. If Brodie turns out to be the suckage, fine. It blows but fine. No skin off my back. But I'm not calling for his head until he's been given ample time to perform. Half a season with a worthless team that gave up before he started is not ample.
QFT:rockon:

DaneMcCloud
05-07-2008, 12:09 AM
And look what Trent Edwards had. One of the best left tackles in the game, a very good left guard, a solid free agent signing with right tackle Langston Walker, and two other at least solid linemen. The Bills gave up 26 sacks last season, 29 less than our crappy line gave up.

And Trent Edwards kicked ass? I didn't realize 7 touchdowns, 8 interceptions, 56.1% completions, 70.4 QB rating, and 4 fumbles was considered as "kicking ass." Your standards of kicking ass are pretty low. By your standards Brodie Croyle kicked ass last year as well.

Compared to Croyle's 6 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, 56.7% completions, 69.9 QB rating, and 4 fumbles how exactly was Trent Edwards any better than Croyle? Besides the superior offensive line Edwards had he also had a great rookie runningback which is a big improvement over Croyle not getting to play a single game with Larry Johnson.

Anderson was also playing behind a line that even without Eric Seinbach and Joe Thomas was easily better than the piece of crap line that we fielded last year.

But your right, 2 years is PLENTY of time to judge a quarterback. I mean, it took Trent Green 5 years to start his first game in the NFL. What were those idiots thinking keeping him around? I'm glad we never trusted him as a starter. It's not like he could put up three straight seasons with 4,000+ yards and 5 straight seasons with 3,500+ yards. And that damn Tony Romo. It's a good thing the Cowboys got rid of him after he didn't start a single game his first three seasons in the league. Oh, wait a second. Oh, and David Garrard starting 8 games through his first 4 seasons in the league? It's obvious he doesn't have what it takes to lead his team to the playoffs. And how about that Jake Delhomme guy? It's pretty obvious that a guy who only started 2 games through his first 5 seasons in the NFL does NOT have what it takes to lead a team like the Carolina Panthers to the super bowl.


You are absolutely right. If a quarterback isn't an all pro by his 2nd season in the NFL he is a complete shitwad and will never be any better than he already is. I'm glad you enlightened us. It's a good thing nobody wasted their time with the Treng Green's, Tony Romo's, David Garrard's, and Jake Delhomme's of the world.

There is so much here to refute that I don't even know where to start.

First, you say that Trent Edward's season was a by product of a good offensive line. Then you go on to say his stats weren't much better than Croyle's (even though Edwards actually WON the games he played in).

Furthermore, bringing up Romo, Garrard and Trent Green has NO BEARING on Croyle's career. Why?

NONE OF THEM WERE NAMED AS A STARTING QB IN YEAR TWO.

They were all allowed to sit on the bench for several seasons and learn. That isn't the case for Croyle. He's expected to start AND WIN football games NOW.

So if you feel that Croyle is a long-term developmental project, let him sit on the bench and develop. DON'T FORCE HIM TO START IN YEAR TWO, then bitch if he sucks.

DaneMcCloud
05-07-2008, 12:11 AM
As a rookie, if Troy Aikman was worth a f*cking shit, he would have pulled out a win in ONE of his 11 appearances. But he didn't. He went 0-11 as a starter. It's a good thing that team didn't waste any time giving up on Troy Aikman. I mean, if he could have at least won one game. That's the last guy I would predict to make the hall of fame.

Troy Aikman was the number one overall pick by a horrible Dallas Cowboys franchise that was beginning a major talent overhaul. Consequently, Aikman went on to win the Super Bowl on three different occasions and later was named to the Hall of Fame.

If you're even close to comparing Brodie Croyle to Troy Aikman, you've just lost all credibility.

DaneMcCloud
05-07-2008, 12:13 AM
Isn't it interesting the one variable besides the quarterback change that happened at the same time? I'm sure it is just a coincidence that we won 4 games with Larry Johnson in the lineup but we didn't win a single game without him. Nope, it's just a coincidence. That is clearly not a factor. What is a factor is that Damon Huard's 11 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, and 76.8 quarterback rating was amazing and clearly superior to the play of Croyle. If only Croyle can match that amazing production. Again, it is very clear that our 9 game losing streak had nothing to do with losing a 2 time pro bowler and our best player on offense who caused teams to change their game plans. Definitely had NOTHING to do with it.:shake:

So by your logic, if Croyle doesn't have Larry Johnson in the backfield, he's incapable of winning a football game?

What kind of QB is he, then?

DaneMcCloud
05-07-2008, 12:17 AM
No I didn't but it doesn't take Battle or Black a long time to develop like it does a QB. These guys have done a pretty good job refuting your arguement.

But as far as me, I just haven't seen anything better than Croyle in the draft this year. If Brodie turns out to be the suckage, fine. It blows but fine. No skin off my back. But I'm not calling for his head until he's been given ample time to perform. Half a season with a worthless team that gave up before he started is not ample.

For the record, only kcchiefsus has tried to refute "my argument" and he did a very poor job.

And no offense but maybe you didn't see Chad Henne or Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan on a regular basis where you live.

I'd take any of those three above Croyle.

kcchiefsus
05-07-2008, 12:44 AM
There is so much here to refute that I don't even know where to start.

First, you say that Trent Edward's season was a by product of a good offensive line. Then you go on to say his stats weren't much better than Croyle's (even though Edwards actually WON the games he played in).

Furthermore, bringing up Romo, Garrard and Trent Green has NO BEARING on Croyle's career. Why?

NONE OF THEM WERE NAMED AS A STARTING QB IN YEAR TWO.

They were all allowed to sit on the bench for several seasons and learn. That isn't the case for Croyle. He's expected to start AND WIN football games NOW.

So if you feel that Croyle is a long-term developmental project, let him sit on the bench and develop. DON'T FORCE HIM TO START IN YEAR TWO, then bitch if he sucks.

Troy Aikman was named starting quarterback in year one. He went 0-11 as a starter. His 2nd year he won a mere 7 games.

kcchiefsus
05-07-2008, 12:45 AM
Troy Aikman was the number one overall pick by a horrible Dallas Cowboys franchise that was beginning a major talent overhaul. Consequently, Aikman went on to win the Super Bowl on three different occasions and later was named to the Hall of Fame.

If you're even close to comparing Brodie Croyle to Troy Aikman, you've just lost all credibility.

Do you honestly think anybody thought Aikman was that great after going 0-11 as a first year starter? The idea that you can't compare people to hall of famers is stupid. Hall of famers started off as nobodies just like any other player.

DaneMcCloud
05-07-2008, 01:03 AM
Do you honestly think anybody thought Aikman was that great after going 0-11 as a first year starter? The idea that you can't compare people to hall of famers is stupid. Hall of famers started off as nobodies just like any other player.

Yes, I did and so did the rest of the league.

In case you need to be reminded, he was the NUMBER ONE OVERALL PICK. He didn't get there by accident. He was a highly recruited QB and played at UCLA. Besides that, he was extremely accurate in college.

Why we're debating Troy Aikman is beyond me. The issue at hand is Brodie Croyle.

And Brodie Croyle has not flashed the type of brilliance that Aikman displayed in his first two seasons, let alone his Super Bowl seasons.

kcchiefsus
05-07-2008, 05:01 AM
Yes, I did and so did the rest of the league.

In case you need to be reminded, he was the NUMBER ONE OVERALL PICK. He didn't get there by accident. He was a highly recruited QB and played at UCLA. Besides that, he was extremely accurate in college.

Why we're debating Troy Aikman is beyond me. The issue at hand is Brodie Croyle.

And Brodie Croyle has not flashed the type of brilliance that Aikman displayed in his first two seasons, let alone his Super Bowl seasons.

Troy Aikman did not flash brilliance his first 2 seasons. He went 0-11 as a rookie. He had twice as many interceptions as touchdowns as a rookie and almost twice as many in his 2nd year. His first 2 years in the league were beyond bad. He also had a completion percentage of 52.9% as a rookie and 56.6% in his second year, both horrible numbers.

But by all means, let's give up on Croyle after a subpar first season when he had no help.

Aikman being a highly recruited QB means nothing. No matter how highly recruited he was or how great of a prospect he was, he was still HORRIBLE his first 2 years in the NFL. He was worse than Croyle was. And in his first year as a starter, he couldn't win a single game in 11 tries which seems to be your measuring stick for a successful QB.

For the record I was in favor of drafting Matt Ryan if he was available. But I doubt the Chiefs would have taken him even if he was available. They are committed to Croyle and that is great. If he falls on his face this year after we have given him a better coordinator and some new weapons then by all means let's move on but It is ridiculous to try and pass judgement on Croyle based on last years play.

DaneMcCloud
05-07-2008, 05:18 AM
Troy Aikman did not flash brilliance his first 2 seasons. He went 0-11 as a rookie. He had twice as many interceptions as touchdowns as a rookie and almost twice as many in his 2nd year. His first 2 years in the league were beyond bad. He also had a completion percentage of 52.9% as a rookie and 56.6% in his second year, both horrible numbers.

But by all means, let's give up on Croyle after a subpar first season when he had no help.

Aikman being a highly recruited QB means nothing. No matter how highly recruited he was or how great of a prospect he was, he was still HORRIBLE his first 2 years in the NFL. He was worse than Croyle was. And in his first year as a starter, he couldn't win a single game in 11 tries which seems to be your measuring stick for a successful QB.

For the record I was in favor of drafting Matt Ryan if he was available. But I doubt the Chiefs would have taken him even if he was available. They are committed to Croyle and that is great. If he falls on his face this year after we have given him a better coordinator and some new weapons then by all means let's move on but It is ridiculous to try and pass judgement on Croyle based on last years play.

There is absolutely no response to your ill-conceived non-sense.

Equating Troy Aikman to Brodie Croyle is tenuous at best.

I don't know how old you are but I'm guessing you weren't old enough to evaluate Troy Aikman in 1989 or 1990, so you'd have no idea what I'm talking about. The same thing goes for John Elway in 1983; It doesn't matter how poor Elway's stats were in 1983, everyone, and I mean everyone, knew he was special. No one questioned it. Same for Aikman. And guess what? They were right.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of Chiefs fanboys who feel the same way about Croyle.

Coogs
05-07-2008, 09:00 AM
If Brodie turns out to be the suckage, fine. It blows but fine. No skin off my back. But I'm not calling for his head until he's been given ample time to perform. Half a season with a worthless team that gave up before he started is not ample.

:clap::clap::clap:

Given the talent at the top of next years draft class, I would hope that everyone here would be wanting Croyle to succeed. It would be a major setback to this teams overall talent to have to draft a QB and bypass a franchise type OL, LB, or DE... all of which could still be needs.