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Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 10:15 AM
Good article, IMO. Now bitch about Herm's offense like there's no tomorrow!

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/05/21/all_about_fundamentals/

It was Day 2 of the Chiefs 2008 schedule of OTAs. The sun was bright, the wind was bracing and nearly 90 players were working on the team’s three practice fields at the Truman Sports Complex.

The calendar said May, but this was football and almost football weather.

And it was football in its most basic forms.

In the first week of on-field work for the 2008 season, Herm Edwards and his coaching staff have broken down the teaching to simple things.

Like the stance a player takes on every play.

“If you don’t get this right, you can’t play this defense,” Gunther Cunningham loudly told his linebackers as they worked on reacting to the offense. He even had the video crew on the field, taping his linebackers in their stances.

It was the same at other defensive positions and on the offense as well. It’s the biggest part of this first week of work; something as simple as the correct placement of the feet.

“We started everybody on the same page, page one,” Edwards said. “Here’s the name of this. Here’s how we are going to do this. Here’s how this is going to be coached. Here’s how we line up.

“We are starting with the very beginnings of football. This is how you line up, this is your stance. We want you to get in this stance. No, not that stance, but this stance. We are training them and conditioning them, but we haven’t done any team stuff yet. We have done some 7-on-7 (a passing/pass coverage drill) but not the whole team stuff. There’s a reason for that. We are going to bring them along slowly, to teach them the fundamentals, the techniques, the systems. Next week, we’ll start competing against each other.”

Why so basic? It’s the players on the field. The Chiefs have 92 players available to them. Make that 91, since veteran safety Greg Wesley is not taking part in the practices ahead of his trade or release. Two rookies are missing because their schools remain in session.

So that’s 88 bodies and 31 of those are rookies, another 10 are first-year players and 15 more are in their first off-season with the Chiefs.

“With so many young guys, you are going to have an opportunity to teach them the Chiefs Way,” Edwards said. “They are going to find out that this is how we do things. We are teaching them, not having to de-program them from another team or system.”

All this becomes even more important to the new Chiefs offense under coordinator Chan Gailey. The playbook has been pared down considerably and so has the approach. While former play-caller Al Saunders frequently did not call the same play more than twice in a month, this year’s offense may run the same play three times in the same series.

A more basic offense makes the fundamentals much more important.

“It’s called execution,” Edwards said. “Here’s the A gap (between center and guard.) They know we are going to run it there. We know we are going to run it there. Now run it there and be successful through execution. If we run there three times and they stop us once, that means we win twice.”

At least once during the season, every coach feels like he needs to take his team back to the basics. This usually occurs when the team is struggling. But, going back to the basics only works if there are basics to go back to.

That’s what the Chiefs are working on right now. They are building a base to becoming a more disciplined, a more fundamentally sound and a more mentally tough team.

More on that final attribute on Friday.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-21-2008, 10:19 AM
meltdown coming

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 10:21 AM
Holy Christ....


This cant be real can it? We cant be trying to relive 1989 again can we? Two years in a row?

Deberg_1990
05-21-2008, 10:22 AM
Herm is absolutely right. Its always about execution more than anything. Every type of offense has won championships.

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 10:23 AM
Chan is absolutely right. Its always about execution more than anything. Every type of offense has won championships.
:LOL:

Only if that offense believes in scoring TD's over FG's....

the Talking Can
05-21-2008, 10:23 AM
having just shot myself in the face, I am now reloading....

milkman
05-21-2008, 10:23 AM
“It’s called execution,” Edwards said. “Here’s the A gap (between center and guard.) They know we are going to run it there. We know we are going to run it there. Now run it there and be successful through execution. If we run there three times and they stop us once, that means we win twice.”

And punt on fourth down.

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 10:24 AM
I wonder if we ever see another flea flicker.

Chiefnj2
05-21-2008, 10:29 AM
I like how they act as if Solari didn't even exist.

Herm spent the entire offseason last year talking about how they simplified everything on offense. The team wants everyone to believe that they called some complex offense the last two years when they didn't.

In any event they need to go back to the basics.

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 10:29 AM
I wonder if we ever see another flea flicker.
What? That is crazy Arena League talk!

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 10:30 AM
I like how they act as if Solari didn't even exist.

Herm spent the entire offseason last year talking about how they simplified everything on offense. The team wants everyone to believe that they called some complex offense the last two years when they didn't.

In any event they need to go back to the basics.

Predictable R2P2 is pretty basic..... What else can you do?

MIAdragon
05-21-2008, 10:31 AM
I wonder if we ever see another flea flicker.

Its difficult to run that three times in a series, so no we wont.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Coogs
05-21-2008, 10:44 AM
So, for example, if LJ gets loose around the left end for a 30 yard run, we might run the play again? :hmmm:

Hydrae
05-21-2008, 10:49 AM
“It’s called execution,” Edwards said. “Here’s the A gap (between center and guard.) They know we are going to run it there. We know we are going to run it there. Now run it there and be successful through execution. If we run there three times and they stop us once, that means we win twice.”

I like it. This speaks to the mental toughness mentioned at the end of the article. Line up mano a mano and play the game. Tricks can be nice but they do not win the season. Beating the other guys head-to-head starting in the trenches does though.

FAX
05-21-2008, 10:50 AM
I have an idea.

Let's don't tell the enemy we're going to run through the A gap!!!

FAX

CosmicPal
05-21-2008, 10:52 AM
A more basic offense makes the fundamentals much more important.



Yeah, you work on the fundamentals during the OTAs, scrimmages, practices, training camp, and preseason games. You don't work on the fuggen fundamentals during the season! :shake:

Coogs
05-21-2008, 10:55 AM
I have an idea.

Let's don't tell the enemy we're going to run through the A gap!!!

FAX


It's a trap. Look for the Patriots to overload the A gap in game one after reading this piece by Gretz.... and we will hit them in the B gap and catch them totally off guard. ;)

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 10:56 AM
I bet we can't run at all in New England. Wilfork is going to own Niswanger.

CosmicPal
05-21-2008, 10:57 AM
It's a trap. Look for the Patriots to overload the A gap in game one after reading this piece by Gretz.... and we will hit them in the B gap and catch them totally off guard. ;)

Not if they're still cheating. :D

Skip Towne
05-21-2008, 10:57 AM
Gentlemen, THIS is a football.

Coogs
05-21-2008, 10:57 AM
Not if they're still cheating. :D

:LOL: Good point!

beach tribe
05-21-2008, 11:10 AM
I have an idea.

Let's don't tell the enemy we're going to run through the A gap!!!

FAX

I see what your saying, but unfortunately, they already know.

DTLB58
05-21-2008, 11:23 AM
Marty Ball > Gailey/Herm ball = :ZZZ: in 2008

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 11:29 AM
Marty Ball > Gailey/Herm ball = :ZZZ: in 2008
Just when you think Herm cant possible make this team more painful to watch...

BOOM! Run the same play over and over and over and over again....

milkman
05-21-2008, 11:29 AM
I bet we can't run at all in New England. Wilfork is going to own Niswanger.

There aren't many centers that can single block Wilfork, so we shoudn't expect Niswanger to.

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 11:30 AM
There aren't many centers that can single block Wilfork, so we shoudn't expect Niswanger to.

Great, Seymour will own one of our tackles. Then we need our undrafted free agent fullback to block Teddy Bruschi. Wonderful.

We're ****ed.

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 11:31 AM
Great, Seymour will own one of our tackles. Then we need our undrafted free agent fullback to block Teddy Bruschi. Wonderful.

We're ****ed.

Its okay, Herm has "the plan"

beach tribe
05-21-2008, 11:32 AM
Great, Seymour will own one of our tackles. Then we need our undrafted free agent fullback to block Teddy Bruschi. Wonderful.

We're ****ed.

What? Were you predicting a W in week one?

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 11:33 AM
What? Were you predicting a W in week one?

Absolutely not!

Between those three defenders and Randy Moss, we'll lose by 21 points if we're lucky.

milkman
05-21-2008, 11:34 AM
Marty Ball > Gailey/Herm ball = :ZZZ: in 2008

I don't have any problem with maul ball.

I don't think there's anyone who thought what the Chiefs did to the Ravens and Falcons a couple of years ago was boring.

For all of the complexity of Saunders offense, in those games we just lined 'em up and knocked them on their asses, and it was a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

The question is, will we have the personell to do that this year?

Coogs
05-21-2008, 11:36 AM
I don't have any problem with maul ball.

I don't think there's anyone who thought what the Chiefs did to the Ravens and Falcons a couple of years ago was boring.

For all of the complexity of Saunders offense, in those games we just lined 'em up and knocked them on their asses, and it was a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

The question is, will we have the personell to do that this year?


:clap::clap::clap:

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 11:38 AM
I don't have any problem with maul ball.

I don't think there's anyone who thought what the Chiefs did to the Ravens and Falcons a couple of years ago was boring.

For all of the complexity of Saunders offense, in those games we just lined 'em up and knocked them on their asses, and it was a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

The question is, will we have the personell to do that this year?

Those games were Arena League... You will not see Herm try and score 8 rushing TD's in one game...

Herm couldnt hold Saunders nut sack when it comes to managing and offense on game day...

milkman
05-21-2008, 11:42 AM
Those games were Arena League... You will not see Herm try and score 8 rushing TD's in one game...

Herm couldnt hold Saunders nut sack when it comes to managing and offense on game day...

I know that Herman ****ing Edwards sucks ass.

I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with the philosphy.

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 11:44 AM
I know that Herman ****ing Edwards sucks ass.

I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with the philosphy.

Fair enough, I just dont see us shoving the ball down someones throat to the tune of 35+ points... Not just the teams style, they want to scrap out a 3 point lead and sit on it....

Easy 6
05-21-2008, 11:56 AM
Not one game has been played...but the Boo-Hoo express lurches onward nonetheless.

DOOOM.

Deberg_1990
05-21-2008, 11:57 AM
Not one game has been played...but the Boo-Hoo express lurches onward nonetheless.

DOOOM.

What kills me is that everyone knows this is a young rebuilding team thats going to make alot of mistakes. Yet they still whine and complain about it.....WTF??

FAX
05-21-2008, 12:02 PM
I don't have any problem with maul ball.

I don't think there's anyone who thought what the Chiefs did to the Ravens and Falcons a couple of years ago was boring.

For all of the complexity of Saunders offense, in those games we just lined 'em up and knocked them on their asses, and it was a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

The question is, will we have the personell to do that this year?

I hope so, Mr. milkman.

Roaf, Waters, Shields, and our kidney sat a lot of defenders on their asses back in the day. We had options then, though. We owned the field outside the numbers as well as between the hashes. And, we could throw the ball as well as run it. Remember those screens?

However, I fear Herm is going to again try and run the football up the gut 19 times for every 20 snaps and I honestly don't believe you can win games that way in the modern NFL.

FAX

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 12:04 PM
However, I fear Herm is going to again try and run the football up the gut 19 times for every 20 snaps and I honestly don't believe you can win games that way in the modern NFL.


The only reason we didn't do that last year is because we couldn't block anyone.

If we can actually block people this year, Herm is going to pound that rock, baby!

kc rush
05-21-2008, 12:06 PM
Herm has been talking about simplifying the offense since he got here. He says that it is for the new players, but I often wonder if he is trying to simplify it just so he can understand.

CoMoChief
05-21-2008, 12:06 PM
The bolded statement is why this team will never go far with Herm at the helm.

You simply can't play a pop warner offense in the NFL. It simply can not be done.

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 12:07 PM
The bolded statement is why this team will never go far with Herm at the helm.

You simply can't play a pop warner offense in the NFL. It simply can not be done.

Maybe so. If we are not in the Top 20 (at minimum) on offense by 2009 Herm will have some splainin' to do. He's got his coach now and apparently his quarterback.

milkman
05-21-2008, 12:08 PM
Herm has been talking about simplifying the offense since he got here. He says that it is for the new players, but I often wonder if he is trying to simplify it just so he can understand.

I don't believe that the offense can ever get as simple as Herman ****ing Edwards.

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 12:08 PM
What kills me is that everyone knows this is a young rebuilding team thats going to make alot of mistakes. Yet they still whine and complain about it.....WTF??

Wrong Deberg.... No one here is going to cry about rookies and youth making mistakes...

What they will cry about is the lack of ability in the coaching staff to field a quality gameday plan that makes sense by putting our rookies and youth in the best position to make plays...

Pounding LJ into submission again this year isnt the answer we are looking for.

Championship coaching staffs think outside the box....

Chiefnj2
05-21-2008, 12:09 PM
People called Saunders predictable. He had his bread and butter plays where everyone knew Priest was going to get it on a sweep to the left and run behind Roaf.

Everyone knows Brady is going to hit Welker on a short cross and go deep to Moss directly in the middle of the field.

Execution is huge.

Reerun_KC
05-21-2008, 12:09 PM
Herm has been talking about simplifying the offense since he got here. He says that it is for the new players, but I often wonder if he is trying to simplify it just so he can understand.

QFT

FAX
05-21-2008, 12:09 PM
The bolded statement is why this team will never go far with Herm at the helm.

You simply can't play a pop warner offense in the NFL. It simply can not be done.

I agree with this, Mr. CoMoChief. They say that the old Packers had only a dozen or so plays and they simply executed them so well that no one could stop them. It makes good mythology and is, essentially, correct thinking that superior execution prevails. However, the modern NFL is sufficiently sophisticated that any team can stop the run more often than not if they know it's coming.

FAX

Stryker
05-21-2008, 12:15 PM
Herm has been talking about simplifying the offense since he got here. He says that it is for the new players, but I often wonder if he is trying to simplify it just so he can understand.

:LOL:


ROFL

Sure-Oz
05-21-2008, 01:08 PM
wtf is this backyard football?

FAX
05-21-2008, 01:13 PM
The more I think about this, the more troubling it all seems. Different players have always used different stances. In fact, some excellent players have used unorthodox stances in the past. I'm not sure that trying to modify a guy's stance is the most critical "fundamental" we have to worry about. I'd be more concerned with things like "catching the ball", "blocking", and "tackling". Maybe they'll work on those items next week.

FAX

tomahawk kid
05-21-2008, 01:52 PM
This place is awesome.

One article by Blob and it goes into total meltdown.

"Herm's going to run the Wing T. We're doooooooooooooooomed".

:)

tomahawk kid
05-21-2008, 01:54 PM
What kills me is that everyone knows this is a young rebuilding team thats going to make alot of mistakes. Yet they still whine and complain about it.....WTF??

Product of our current fast food, DVR, instant gratification society.

Everyone wants a winner, no one wants to go through the growing pains.....

Chiefnj2
05-21-2008, 01:58 PM
People need to realize that rebuilding didn't start this past offseason. Herm's had 2 draft classes with playing time and he brought in some of his own free agents. There should be a good deal of improvement since it's his third year.

HemiEd
05-21-2008, 02:04 PM
Good article, IMO. Now bitch about Herm's offense like there's no tomorrow!

Just trying to keep things straight Clayton. Are you in the Germ Warefare mode, or in love with him this year?

blueballs
05-21-2008, 02:14 PM
if the coaching staff has to learn fundamentals also
win - win

HemiEd
05-21-2008, 02:16 PM
People need to realize that rebuilding didn't start this past offseason. Herm's had 2 draft classes with playing time and he brought in some of his own free agents. There should be a good deal of improvement since it's his third year.

I would settle for him to quit making the team worse.

Oh wait, he has pretty much already taken them to the bottom, 15 slots each year. They about have to get better.

FAX
05-21-2008, 02:22 PM
Clearly, Herm and Gunther have been working all off-season, reviewing endless hours of tape, and burning the midnight oil to determine the root cause of our difficulties ... and the answer? Stances. Stances, by golly. We need to teach these young players the Chiefs stance and that will solve our problems.

What the heck is a "Chiefs stance", anyhow? Lower your ass until you can hide behind a shrub?

FAX

HemiEd
05-21-2008, 02:24 PM
What the heck is a "Chiefs stance", anyhow? Lower your ass until you can hide behind a shrub?

FAX I am fairly certian, that you lower yourself until you can hide behind a box of triscuits.

Hydrae
05-21-2008, 02:27 PM
I am fairly certian, that you lower yourself until you can hide behind a box of triscuits.

That's it, we need to build a wall of Fig Newtons. Noone will get through that!

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 02:43 PM
Just trying to keep things straight Clayton. Are you in the Germ Warefare mode, or in love with him this year?

Oh, I lost faith last year. I still like the guy (that Germ Warfare crap was dumb), but just doubt where he's going to take us. We might make it back to the playoffs, but not beyond. I hope he restores my faith because I'm honestly rooting for the guy. Who knows, shit happens.

ChiefRon
05-21-2008, 02:50 PM
Working on fundamentals and simplifying the offense for all the youngsters sounds like an excellent idea to me. Let's hope it pays off...

FAX
05-21-2008, 02:54 PM
It's not that I disagree with working on the fundamentals of football, Mr. ChiefRon, but while the other teams are working on strength training, endurance, timing, blocking, tackling, catching, throwing, etc., we are working on stances.

But not to worry, our guys will have the best darn stances in the league by the time Gunther and Herm are done. We'll look like a synchronized swim team in headgear - at least until the ball is snapped.

FAX

R&GHomer
05-21-2008, 02:54 PM
Clearly, Herm and Gunther have been working all off-season, reviewing endless hours of tape, and burning the midnight oil to determine the root cause of our difficulties ... and the answer? Stances. Stances, by golly. We need to teach these young players the Chiefs stance and that will solve our problems.

What the heck is a "Chiefs stance", anyhow? Lower your ass until you can hide behind a shrub?

FAX

Gunther has a pretty damn good track record with LB's. If he thinks they should work on thier stance then so be it. I love this new approach to building this team. I'm excited!

keg in kc
05-21-2008, 02:57 PM
Yes, I'm sure we won't spend any time this offseason working on strength training, endurance, timing, blocking, tackling, catching, throwing, and so forth. We'll just do stances for 5 months.

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 02:58 PM
Yes, I'm sure we won't spend any time this offseason working on strength training, endurance, timing, blocking, tackling, catching, throwing, and so forth. We'll just do stances for 5 months.

No, just stances. We want to look like the most prepared team in the league before the ball is snapped. We'll look like Super Bowl champions in 2009 publicity photographs.

FAX
05-21-2008, 03:00 PM
Blind homers!!! Can't you see what's happening!!!

We're working on stances!!! Stances!!!

FAX

picasso
05-21-2008, 03:02 PM
What kills me is that everyone knows this is a young rebuilding team thats going to make alot of mistakes. Yet they still whine and complain about it.....WTF??

You talk as though the Chiefs should not be attempting to achieve greatness this season and every season. That there is an excuse for this team this year because it is a young team prone to mistakes. That it should be a freebee year and not a fan based expectation to demand a championship caliber team right now. I tell ya what, you crap away this season to guys making mistakes and missing assignments but I expect true football players that were chosen because of the abilities and their brains and my expectation that this is the year they become a great cohesive unit and earn a superbowl trophy. that is what keeps me a Chiefs fan every year for over 35 years. That is why I spend $300 on NFL ticket each year and buy the hats and jerseys and crap!! Rebuilding my ass!

ChiefRon
05-21-2008, 03:04 PM
It's not that I disagree with working on the fundamentals of football, Mr. ChiefRon, but while the other teams are working on strength training, endurance, timing, blocking, tackling, catching, throwing, etc., we are working on stances.

But not to worry, our guys will have the best darn stances in the league by the time Gunther and Herm are done. We'll look like a synchronized swim team in headgear - at least until the ball is snapped.

FAX

You crack me up, Mr. Fax, and your humor is certainly a highlight as we endure these times with our young team.

However, I'm in agreement with most other folks around here: Gretz is a terrible writer. And I think he once again places the emphasis on one particular thing - "the stance" - when really the emphasis is probably more on "fundamentals". I take this to mean that the coaches are focusing on fundamentals this offseason, especially with all the youngsters, and that starts with the stance you use to put you into position to do your job.

Fundamentals. Technique.

To me, this is refreshing. I'm no expert, but based on the sloppy play of our defense in the past, I would guess that the coaching staff spent way more time on scheme than fundamentals and technique. You can have the best scheme in the world, but that doesn't mean crap if you use the wrong technique.

I would expect our tackling, catching, blocking, etc to look way more crisp and reliable this year.

But then, I'm an optimistic homer...

Coogs
05-21-2008, 03:05 PM
The more I think about this, the more troubling it all seems. Different players have always used different stances. In fact, some excellent players have used unorthodox stances in the past. I'm not sure that trying to modify a guy's stance is the most critical "fundamental" we have to worry about. I'd be more concerned with things like "catching the ball", "blocking", and "tackling". Maybe they'll work on those items next week.

FAX

FAX

Stance is a very critical point on every single fundamental skill there is... in any sport. When you are teaching young kids do do anything athleticly (from page or square one, what ever you want to call it) you start with stance. Build the foundation and move up from there. That would apply to blocking, tackling, route running, QB drops, running backs, CB's, LB's, whatever.

It is possible that many of these guys were good enough at an early age that fundamentals may have been overlooked when they were younger, and they could get by with just pure athletic ability. At this level it may not be good enough.

Think Tiger Woods. Best in the world, but tinkers with the fundamentals of the swing all of the time. But every single time he steps up to hit the ball.... stance first.

ChiefRon
05-21-2008, 03:06 PM
BTW, the title of the article is "All About Fundamentals", not "All About The Stance".

Coogs
05-21-2008, 03:07 PM
ChiefRon,

Great minds! :toast:

FAX
05-21-2008, 03:08 PM
Okay.

I give up.

Go Herm!! Go cool Chiefs stances!!!

FAX

milkman
05-21-2008, 03:41 PM
Gunther has a pretty damn good track record with LB's. If he thinks they should work on thier stance then so be it. I love this new approach to building this team. I'm excited!

Really?

Even if he gets credit for Keith Bullock, that's just one guy.

That's more like a "blind squirrel" than a track record.

Cunther Gunningham sucks ass, and this team will be so much better off the day that useless bastard is gone.

Coogs
05-21-2008, 03:45 PM
Really?

Even if he gets credit for Keith Bullock, that's just one guy.

That's more like a "blind squirrel" than a track record.

**nther Gunningham sucks ass, and this team will be so much better off the day that useless bastard is gone.

Yep!

beach tribe
05-21-2008, 03:47 PM
“It’s called execution,” Edwards said. “Here’s the A gap (between center and guard.) They know we are going to run it there. We know we are going to run it there. Now run it there and be successful through execution. If we run there three times and they stop us once, that means we win twice.”


This is exactly what my high school coach told us. The dive was our "bread, and butter play" he said. He let us loose in scrimmages, and we put on a show.

When the season started we executed our "bread, and butter", and lost 9 straight. Won our last game 3-0.

There's a lot more to the story. I am scarred for life.

OnTheWarpath58
05-21-2008, 03:51 PM
Typical ChiefsPlanet.

Take this sentence:

While former play-caller Al Saunders frequently did not call the same play more than twice in a month, this year’s offense may run the same play three times in the same series.

And turn it into this:

"Past coordinators around here were known for not running the same play more than twice a month," said Coach Herm Edwards. "At the end of the day, you'll probably see Chan call the same play three times on one series."

Dear God.

This place is bi-polar. One minute, Bog Gretz a ****ing moron, the next minute people are taking a line in which he states an OPINION that this year's offense MAY run the same play 3 times in 1 series as ****ing gospel.

Whoever made this should get a royalty everytime it's used - they'd be ****ing loaded...

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 03:57 PM
That'd be me. It's awesome.

OnTheWarpath58
05-21-2008, 03:58 PM
That'd be me. It's awesome.

It is.

One of my favorite PS jobs.

HemiEd
05-21-2008, 04:02 PM
Oh, I lost faith last year. I still like the guy (that Germ Warfare crap was dumb), but just doubt where he's going to take us. We might make it back to the playoffs, but not beyond. I hope he restores my faith because I'm honestly rooting for the guy. Who knows, shit happens.

Damn man, I can't find any fault with that whatsoever. Good post.

HemiEd
05-21-2008, 04:07 PM
Really?

Even if he gets credit for Keith Bullock, that's just one guy.

That's more like a "blind squirrel" than a track record.

**nther Gunningham sucks ass, and this team will be so much better off the day that stupid, ignorant, useless bastard is gone.

FYP

HemiEd
05-21-2008, 04:13 PM
Typical ChiefsPlanet.

Take this sentence:

While former play-caller Al Saunders frequently did not call the same play more than twice in a month, this year’s offense may run the same play three times in the same series.

And turn it into this:

"Past coordinators around here were known for not running the same play more than twice a month," said Coach Herm Edwards. "At the end of the day, you'll probably see Chan call the same play three times on one series."

Dear God.

This place is bi-polar. One minute, Bog Gretz a ****ing moron, the next minute people are taking a line in which he states an OPINION that this year's offense MAY run the same play 3 times in 1 series as ****ing gospel.

Whoever made this should get a royalty everytime it's used - they'd be ****ing loaded...


Who you calling bipolar, n00b!? It is posters making those observations, there are thousands on here. Just probably not the exact ones that had the opposite opinion. Al Saunders is God, and Herm/Gunther are dumbasses. School is out.

beach tribe
05-21-2008, 04:13 PM
Typical ChiefsPlanet.

Take this sentence:

While former play-caller Al Saunders frequently did not call the same play more than twice in a month, this year’s offense may run the same play three times in the same series.

And turn it into this:

"Past coordinators around here were known for not running the same play more than twice a month," said Coach Herm Edwards. "At the end of the day, you'll probably see Chan call the same play three times on one series."

Dear God.

This place is bi-polar. One minute, Bog Gretz a ****ing moron, the next minute people are taking a line in which he states an OPINION that this year's offense MAY run the same play 3 times in 1 series as ****ing gospel.

Whoever made this should get a royalty everytime it's used - they'd be ****ing loaded...

I see what your saying dude, but this:

“It’s called execution,” Edwards said. “Here’s the A gap (between center and guard.) They know we are going to run it there. We know we are going to run it there. Now run it there and be successful through execution. If we run there three times and they stop us once, that means we win twice.”

is straight from the horse's mouth.

Yes, execution is key, but a game plan for each opponent is crucial if we plan to succeed. Pounding it straight up the gut on Oakland, and Denver will probably be fruitful. Try that shit week one, and we will lose by 28.

Fish
05-21-2008, 04:15 PM
I see what your saying dude, but this:

“It’s called execution,” Edwards said. “Here’s the A gap (between center and guard.) They know we are going to run it there. We know we are going to run it there. Now run it there and be successful through execution. If we run there three times and they stop us once, that means we win twice.”

is straight from the horse's mouth.

Yes, execution is key, but a game plan for each opponent is crucial if we plan to succeed. Pounding it straight up the gut on Oakland, and Denver will probably be fruitful. Try that shit week one, and we will lose by 28.

I'm not seeing the part where Herm actually says we're not going to game plan, we're just going to run the same play 3 times and see if it works twice.

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 04:20 PM
It is.

One of my favorite PS jobs.

I can't take full credit. The original was a different background with different text in the ticker. I just replaced those elements. Wish I could find the original.

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 04:22 PM
Damn man, I can't find any fault with that whatsoever. Good post.

Thanks. One of the things I'm interested in looking at later this offseason is our coaching staff. We have three former/current head coaches heading up the staff. I want to look at the history of coaching staffs with similar makeups, and where they went. I'm not so sure it's the right mix - a lot of Super Bowl teams have staffs with up and coming coordinators who are future head coaches. Should be interesting. Hope we don't have too many cooks spoiling the soup, or whatever. You get me?

beach tribe
05-21-2008, 04:33 PM
I'm not seeing the part where Herm actually says we're not going to game plan, we're just going to run the same play 3 times and see if it works twice.

We saw it last season. I bartend on Sundays, and was cracking my patrons up calling out the plays before they happened. "Check this out, draw play". I believe that CHAN will game plan, but Herm is going to keep a leash on his ass, but to tell you the truth, with these young guys I don't really mind it so much.
We're gonna lose a lot of games this season, and ya know what, I'm cool with that too. I LIKE what is happening. We are watching a team be built from scratch. OUR team. Not a bunch of everybody else's players. The CHIEFS are being built before our eyes. I just hope that when they are ready, these guys will have the fortitude to turn them loose. I'm behind Herm, and co. They have earned a couple more seasons of faith, and loyalty in my eyes. I'm pulling for them.

HemiEd
05-21-2008, 04:40 PM
Hope we don't have too many cooks spoiling the soup, or whatever. You get me?

Yes, I do. I still don't care for the head cook, but I was impressed with his last shopping trip. He has made some coaching moves, strictly to satisfy his ego, and throw them under the bus IMO.
I do like the Chan Gailey hire though, but hated the firing of the RBs coach.

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 04:44 PM
I do like the Chan Gailey hire though, but hated the firing of the RBs coach.

Actually, that was a pretty good move. Herm wants someone to light a fire under LJ. I forget the last guy's name, but he was too soft on LJ apparently.

ct
05-21-2008, 04:49 PM
I wonder if anyone stopped to tell Lombardi he was overusing his power sweep.

Count Alex's Wins
05-21-2008, 04:52 PM
I wonder if anyone stopped to tell Lombardi he was overusing his power sweep.

Different era. Herm would probably have been a great head coach 30 or 40 years ago.

beach tribe
05-21-2008, 04:59 PM
I wonder if anyone stopped to tell Lombardi he was overusing his power sweep.

In the early to mid 60's every team ran the same play 20 times. Lambardi's were just a lot better at it than everyone else's.

HemiEd
05-21-2008, 05:01 PM
Actually, that was a pretty good move. Herm wants someone to light a fire under LJ. I forget the last guy's name, but he was too soft on LJ apparently.

We shall see. For some reason, I think the drafting of Jamaal Charles may be of some inspiration to LJ.
If the new Coach can teach him to block, it would prove to be an improvement.

CupidStunt
05-21-2008, 05:07 PM
Herm is obviously too vanilla with his philosophy, but if you actually think he WANTS to limit the offense to, I don't know, 20 points, you're a f'ing moron. If we actually had the talent to put up 20 points in the first half, Herm isn't gonna go out there and say, "Do NOT score in this half!"

Now, he's not gonna go Belichick on your ass and throw 50-yard bombs when up by 30 points with five minutes left, but he'll keep throwing it when it's appropriate (see Huard to Gonzalez against the Bengals last year with eight and change left up by 10).

And even if Herm was this anti-scoring moron that some make him out to be, do you actually think that the 11 guys lining up and playing (or at least trying to) pay a lick of attention to his conservatism?

There's four minutes left and KC leads the Raiders by 15. It's 2nd-and-seven at midfield. The play is a simple, straight-forward off-tackle run. Do you really think Branden Albert isn't going to enjoy drilling whatever loser (Kalimba Edwards?) Oakland has at DE? You think LJ isn't going to enjoy trucking one of those pussy LB'ers?

R&GHomer
05-21-2008, 05:15 PM
Really?

Even if he gets credit for Keith Bullock, that's just one guy.

That's more like a "blind squirrel" than a track record.

**nther Gunningham sucks ass, and this team will be so much better off the day that useless bastard is gone.

I don't know, the Titans head couch sure seemed to think he was pretty good with his LB's "I don't know the names"

To be fair, you can at least admit Gunther had some pretty kick ass defenses in the 90's. Given what he now has to work with, I'm really looking for good things from this defense. I was extremely happy when herm announced Gunther was going to be the line backer's coach.

milkman
05-21-2008, 05:19 PM
I don't know, the Titans head couch sure seemed to think he was pretty good with his LB's "I don't know the names"

To be fair, you can at least admit Gunther had some pretty kick ass defenses in the 90's. Given what he now has to work with, I'm really looking for good things from this defense. I was extremely happy when herm announced Gunther was going to be the line backer's coach.

I can admit that the Chiefs had some kickass defenses in the 90s, but he had tons of talent to work with.

And it's always been my contention that Cunther did more to limit DT than any offenses ever did.

R&GHomer
05-21-2008, 05:35 PM
I can admit that the Chiefs had some kickass defenses in the 90s, but he had tons of talent to work with.

And it's always been my contention that **nther did more to limit DT than any offenses ever did.

They sure did, and they fit the system. That's why I love what Herm is doing, he's getting guys that fit. Vermeil's Defensive picks never seemed to. God they made some shitty picks. I hate to even think about it.

I can't agree with him limiting DT. Although I never did like the "Falcon" experiment.

Sully
05-21-2008, 05:38 PM
Meh...
In reality there are only about 5 running plays in football, especially in the pros. There may be a little difference in motions, formations, and little tweaks here and there, but when it comes to the running game, there's not much that every teams doesn't do.
Cretivity comes in the passing game. Will we see that? Will Gailey be allowed to use his creativity? That remains to be seen.


Interestingly, though, I just read (and watched video of) a High School team in California that is running an offense in which on any given play any of the players can be eligible receivers, due to a glitch in high school football rules. Can you imagine defending that? You don't know who is running apattern till, at best, 1 second before the ball is snapped.

redbrian
05-21-2008, 05:56 PM
First off Herm is not the OC, Herm brought in Chan to handle that and looking at Chan’s track record he has done a pretty damn good job at the pro level.

Chan is not some spring chicken who is going to let Herm put a lease on, I fully expect Chan to run the offense as he sees fit.

A lot of these rookies have poor or sloppy techniques that they could get by with at the University level that is not going to cut it in the pros.

Foot work is critical; it is the differences in being so so and being great.

Run the same play more than once, hell yea, as a great QB named Len has said more than once, if the play is successful run it till the opposing team can stop it.

As far as running, I think you will see a balanced attack, closer to 50/50, you will also see them set up the pass with the run.

Just plain hard nosed football, the way football used to be played in this town.

You play good ball on both sides of the ball in order to go long into the season, too long we have either had a great D or a great O, but were less than good on the other side.

Marty great D, no interest in the O
Dick great O, no interest in the D

In my opinion Herm has finally been given the green light to blow this thing up (something he should have been allowed to do when he first got here), and is on the right track to build a balanced team, which has the potential to be great for years.

ChiefRon
05-21-2008, 08:58 PM
First off Herm is not the OC, Herm brought in Chan to handle that and looking at Chan’s track record he has done a pretty damn good job at the pro level.

Chan is not some spring chicken who is going to let Herm put a lease on, I fully expect Chan to run the offense as he sees fit.

A lot of these rookies have poor or sloppy techniques that they could get by with at the University level that is not going to cut it in the pros.

Foot work is critical; it is the differences in being so so and being great.

Run the same play more than once, hell yea, as a great QB named Len has said more than once, if the play is successful run it till the opposing team can stop it.

As far as running, I think you will see a balanced attack, closer to 50/50, you will also see them set up the pass with the run.

Just plain hard nosed football, the way football used to be played in this town.

You play good ball on both sides of the ball in order to go long into the season, too long we have either had a great D or a great O, but were less than good on the other side.

Marty great D, no interest in the O
Dick great O, no interest in the D

In my opinion Herm has finally been given the green light to blow this thing up (something he should have been allowed to do when he first got here), and is on the right track to build a balanced team, which has the potential to be great for years.

This is an excellent post, and I agree.

kc rush
05-21-2008, 09:19 PM
Herm is obviously too vanilla with his philosophy, but if you actually think he WANTS to limit the offense to, I don't know, 20 points, you're a f'ing moron. If we actually had the talent to put up 20 points in the first half, Herm isn't gonna go out there and say, "Do NOT score in this half!"

Now, he's not gonna go Belichick on your ass and throw 50-yard bombs when up by 30 points with five minutes left, but he'll keep throwing it when it's appropriate (see Huard to Gonzalez against the Bengals last year with eight and change left up by 10).

And even if Herm was this anti-scoring moron that some make him out to be, do you actually think that the 11 guys lining up and playing (or at least trying to) pay a lick of attention to his conservatism?

There's four minutes left and KC leads the Raiders by 15. It's 2nd-and-seven at midfield. The play is a simple, straight-forward off-tackle run. Do you really think Branden Albert isn't going to enjoy drilling whatever loser (Kalimba Edwards?) Oakland has at DE? You think LJ isn't going to enjoy trucking one of those pussy LB'ers?

The Indianapolis game from this last year still sticks in my craw. Tie game, 1:18 left on the clock, the ball on the 23 and 3 timeouts left and Herm didn't even try. They ran the clock out.

cdcox
05-21-2008, 11:04 PM
People called Saunders predictable. He had his bread and butter plays where everyone knew Priest was going to get it on a sweep to the left and run behind Roaf.

Everyone knows Brady is going to hit Welker on a short cross and go deep to Moss directly in the middle of the field.

Execution is huge.

The difference is that on the sweep you have Priest out in space where he can cut inside or take it outside. There is a lot of room to cover. and you've run away from most of the the other defenders. Same withe a crossing pattern or a deep pass. When you talk about pounding the A gap you have no space. If the D knows you are going to do that they crash an inside LB and a S and all the execution in the world isn't going to make a difference. Effective offenses are all about the mismatches so you can execute in one-on-one situations. Herm never talks about mismatches and that is why he doesn't understand offense. Good offense is not about being manly enough to run through the A gap at will.

Skip Towne
05-21-2008, 11:16 PM
The difference is that on the sweep you have Priest out in space where he can cut inside or take it outside. There is a lot of room to cover. and you've run away from most of the the other defenders. Same withe a crossing pattern or a deep pass. When you talk about pounding the A gap you have no space. If the D knows you are going to do that they crash an inside LB and a S and all the execution in the world isn't going to make a difference. Effective offenses are all about the mismatches so you can execute in one-on-one situations. Herm never talks about mismatches and that is why he doesn't understand offense. Good offense is not about being manly enough to run through the A gap at will.

You're right, offense is not about being manly enough to run through the A gap at will. But it was when Herm learned the game. Herm doesn't adapt well to changes. The dude doesn't know how to use the internet for god's sake.

Fish
05-21-2008, 11:30 PM
You're right, offense is not about being manly enough to run through the A gap at will. But it was when Herm learned the game. Herm doesn't adapt well to changes. The dude doesn't know how to use the internet for god's sake.

Says the old guy with WebTV......

Skip Towne
05-21-2008, 11:32 PM
Says the old guy with WebTV......

You're not very smart now are you?

BIG K
05-21-2008, 11:36 PM
Wow! Run the same play three times in one series! What a novel idea by Herm and his new staff.

Hydrae
05-21-2008, 11:39 PM
First off Herm is not the OC, Herm brought in Chan to handle that and looking at Chan’s track record he has done a pretty damn good job at the pro level.

Chan is not some spring chicken who is going to let Herm put a lease on, I fully expect Chan to run the offense as he sees fit.

A lot of these rookies have poor or sloppy techniques that they could get by with at the University level that is not going to cut it in the pros.

Foot work is critical; it is the differences in being so so and being great.

Run the same play more than once, hell yea, as a great QB named Len has said more than once, if the play is successful run it till the opposing team can stop it.

As far as running, I think you will see a balanced attack, closer to 50/50, you will also see them set up the pass with the run.

Just plain hard nosed football, the way football used to be played in this town.

You play good ball on both sides of the ball in order to go long into the season, too long we have either had a great D or a great O, but were less than good on the other side.

Marty great D, no interest in the O
Dick great O, no interest in the D

In my opinion Herm has finally been given the green light to blow this thing up (something he should have been allowed to do when he first got here), and is on the right track to build a balanced team, which has the potential to be great for years.

Excellent post!

Part of the reason for stressing something as basic as stances is to remind all of these new kids that this is a different game. When it comes to NFL football, a lot of them have no clue. If you can yell at them for something as basic as their stance are they going to argue later when you correct them for something else? It is good basics but it works psychologically too.

Coogs
05-22-2008, 08:24 AM
The difference is that on the sweep you have Priest out in space where he can cut inside or take it outside. There is a lot of room to cover. and you've run away from most of the the other defenders. Same withe a crossing pattern or a deep pass. When you talk about pounding the A gap you have no space. If the D knows you are going to do that they crash an inside LB and a S and all the execution in the world isn't going to make a difference. Effective offenses are all about the mismatches so you can execute in one-on-one situations. Herm never talks about mismatches and that is why he doesn't understand offense. Good offense is not about being manly enough to run through the A gap at will.

To me, Herm was just using the A gap as an example of what he said in the previous paragraph about running the same play three times in a series. I didn't at all take it a gospel that we were going to pound the A gap time-after-time every series. He could have said sweep, pass to Gonzo, pass to Bowe, and it waould have all meant the same. Just an example.

Short Leash Hootie
05-22-2008, 08:31 AM
Al Saunders hardly ever called the same play twice in a month? I find that hard to believe...I remember the first game of the 2005 season when they did a toss sweep to Priest Holmes for 35 yards...very next play...same play to LJ for a TD...

thehead
05-22-2008, 09:32 AM
But not to worry, our guys will have the best darn stances in the league by the time Gunther and Herm are done. We'll look like a synchronized swim team in headgear - at least until the ball is snapped.

FAX[/QUOTE]


LMAO

L.A. Chieffan
05-22-2008, 09:41 AM
Chan sucks. Period

Otter
05-22-2008, 09:47 AM
Between Herman and Chan the Chiefs may want to start handing out free amphetamines to keep their fans awake. It's gonna be like watching paint dry.

Here's little poster I found from a Georgia Fan of Chan's last position:

http://static.flickr.com/45/151635322_7ed152089e.jpg

Brock
05-22-2008, 10:04 AM
Gailey is a good offensive coordinator. I don't get the hate.

Tuckdaddy
05-22-2008, 10:20 AM
There are no real secrets in football. It's still blocking and running. If you block them you will be able to run. As if our opponents don't know we will try and ram LJ down their throats.

Extra Point
05-22-2008, 10:58 AM
I just hope punts and field goals don't overshadow TD's, and I don't care how we score.
Brandon Albert was right when he said that it all starts in the trenches. And it's supposed to end with more points for us than our opponents when the game clock runs down.

Just stating the obvious. Move along now, nothing here to see. The carnage of the last two seasons is over.

Count Alex's Wins
05-22-2008, 11:40 AM
Al Saunders hardly ever called the same play twice in a month? I find that hard to believe...I remember the first game of the 2005 season when they did a toss sweep to Priest Holmes for 35 yards...very next play...same play to LJ for a TD...

Bad example. Priest didn't take a sweep 35 yards. He busted through the middle of the line and then broke it outside at the second level.

Rausch
05-22-2008, 01:32 PM
Gailey is a good offensive coordinator. I don't get the hate.

In his 4 years as OC for the steelers he made the AFC title game 3 times and the super bowl once. I believe the powerhouse combo of QB's he worked with were Kordella' and Odonnel.

He's a ****ing magician if you ask me...