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BIG_DADDY
05-22-2008, 04:26 PM
Most players, coaches, NBA GMs, basketball experts, sports analysts, sports columnists, NBA announcers, celebrities and worldwide polls said Kobe is the best!

Players and coaches who said Kobe is the best!

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Julius Erving
Jerry West
Charles Barkley
Clyde Drexler
Shaq O'Neal
Isiah Thomas
Mark Jackson
T-Mac
Vince Carter
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
LeHYPE James (Kobe is my idol!) LOL!
Lamar Odom
Chauncy Billups
Sam Cassell
Darius Miles
Keyon Dooling
Jerry Stackhouse
Richard Jeferson
Derek Fisher
Amare Stoudamire
Caron Butler
Carlos Boozer
Jon Barry
Sasha Vujacic
Steve Kerr
Dirk Nowitzki
Allen Iverson
Richard Jefferson
Tyronne Lue
Rip Hamilton
Deron Williams
Monta Ellis
Jason Richardson
Ron Harper
Ron Artest
Baron Davis
Marcus Camby
Chris Kaman
Shawn Battier
LaDainian Tomlinson
Al Thornton
Nick Young
Carney Rodney
Newble
Kevin Martin
Wally Szczerbiak
Corey Maggette
Gilbert Arenas
Jordan Farmar
Doug Collins
Coach Phil Jackson
Coach Pat Riley
Coach Popovich
Coach Karl
Coach Byron Scott
Coach Don Nelson
and a lot more...


Players

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt-f49jyM...

Amare Stoudamire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_hJuAyQk...

Lebron James

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl_HbwnjH...


http://www.lebronjamesworld.com/news3.ph...



Larry Bird said Kobe is the best on April 30, 2008


http://www.am570radio.com/pages/podcasti...

On the Dan Patrick Show today on AM 570 KLAC Larry Bird was asked what his opinion is about Kobe Bryant. He said that he is the best in the league and has been for quite a long time. He also stated that he is very surprised that Kobe has not won MVP so far and that after all Kobe has done, if he doesn't end up winning one than he might as well throw all of his away.



Sasha Vujacic

http://cbs2.com/video/?id=66429@kcbs.day...



Kevin Martin just said Kobe is the best (April 7, 2008)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?game...

"The best player in the league came out and just took over," Martin said. "He got his team going."



Dirk Nowitzki
[/b]
This is from http://www.insidehoops.com

InsideHoops.com: Other than yourself and any of your teammates, who are the official Dirk Nowitzki candidates for the league MVP?

Dirk Nowitzki: That's tough. LeBron certainly has a case in the East. On the Celtics, KG has had a great year. And in the West, to me it's been Kobe, the way he's been scoring, really setting the tone every night for his team, and to me he's the best player in the league anyway, scoring-wise and all-around player. I'd probably give it to Kobe. Those three definitely deserve it.


Derek Fisher said Kobe is the best

“He’s had a great impact on our team from an emotional and a chemistry aspect,” Fisher said. “He continues to get more comfortable leading the team. I think he’s made the transition from being the best individual player in the league to still the best player in the game and one of the best to play with.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=At...



Carney Rodney said:


"He's the best player (Kobe) in the league. What can you do? He scores at any given time, anywhere

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball...



Don Nelson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60r8BLLLc...

"I thought we did as good of a job as we could defensively on him and he's my vote for MVP. He's the best of the best and deserves the award more than, I think, anybody else and I hope he gets it. He's a marvelous player, makes everybody else better. There isn't anything that he doesn't do. He's a pretty sensational player, I have enjoyed watching him all these years and I have enjoyed coaching him in one All-Star game when he got MVP."
KOBE #1 PLAY OF THE YEAR


Nick Young

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/index.php?name...


Al Thornton on Kobe:

“He’s as good as advertised, said Thornton. “He’s amazing. There’s nothing he can’t do out there on that basketball court. Without a doubt the best I’ve seen so far.



Ron Harper (Former MJ teammate) :

"Kobe is the best player in the NBA"

http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?co...



Newble, former teammate of LeHYPE just said Kobe is the best today LOL!


http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2008/0...

Newble, the former Cleveland Cav, signed his 10-day contract Friday and immediately provided great material for reporters when asked to compared LeBron James with Kobe Bryant.

“You know what? Kobe’s better, and if you ask LeBron, he’ll tell you Kobe’s better,” Newble said.


“well the NBA is in great hands but if I had to pick the single greatest player on the planet, I take Kobe Bryant without hesitation.” - Michael Jordan

“Kobe is the best player and best scorer in the league.”
- Lebron James

“Nobody can guard Kobe one-on-one. Nobody.”
-Del Harris

“(Kobe) rates right there with Jordan.”
- Pat Riley

“Kobe is the most talented in the game on both ends of the floor”
- Gregg Popovich

"Kobe the best in the game right now man. Who better then Kobe?"
- Amare Stoudemire

"It's like God put Kobe here for us to watch him play basketball."
-Lamar Odom

"Kobe is the top player in the league."
-Jason Richardson

“The kid can play, you can’t take that away from him. I’m chasing him. He has three rings, I haven’t been out of the first round.”
- Tracy McGrady-

"The MVP should be, when I look at it, I think it should be the best player in the league. Kobe is the best player in the league."
- Chauncey Billups

"Kobe is the best basketball player in the world."
-Charles Barkley

“Everyone knows Kobe is the best in the game right now”
- Mike D’Antoni

“That should put all the questions to rest who’s the most talented and who’s the, you know, best offensive player in the league.”
- Ben Gordon

“We’re witnessing greatness right now. We need to understand that."
- Tyson Chandler

"Kobe has no weaknesses"
- Al Harrington

"It's always a big challenge battling against the best."
- Vince Carter

"Kobe has a fire in his eyes like he wants to be the best"
- Jamal Crawford

"Kobe has mastered the game and you have to respect that. You have to respect greatness"
-Dwayne Wade

"Kobe is one of the great talents to ever play this game"
- Steve Nash

"Kobe is the best player in the game and he's never won it before. He's had his injuries, his team has had injuries and they're still right up there in the West. They just beat us without Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum. I think this is his time."

-Dirk Nowitzki

"Kobe is the best player in the game right now, and the Lakers are playing very well"
-Shaquille O'neal



Deron Williams after the Utah- LA game:

"He's the best player in the world,"

http://news.mywebpal.com/partners/963/pu...




Shawn Battier:

“I saw how good Kobe was in my rookie year when I was in Memphis, Battier said. “Everyone makes a big deal out of his 81-point game against the Raptors. But he gave me personally about 63 in my rookie year — in three quarters. And no one really talks about it. He’s unbelievable. Unbelievable. All the praise that he receives, he earns.

“(Kobe) never shows frustration, Battier said. “He’s the only guy in the league. That’s why I respect the hell out of him. He keeps coming at you wave after wave, just attacking you. So against him, you have to attack from the tip to the buzzer. Because the second you let up and lose your focus, he’s got you.

http://blogs.chron.com/franblinebury/200...




Chris Kaman just said Kobe is the best!

"They're a good team. They have the best player in the world on their team," said the Clippers' Chris Kaman, who scored 14 points and had 11 rebounds, but had only four points after the first quarter.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?game...



Corey Maggette

He was interviewed last night after the game, and he said, (quote) "Kobe is the best player in the world."





Dirk Nowitzki just said again today that Kobe is the best!

"He took the game over, and he won it," said Nowitzki, who finished with 30 points and 13 rebounds.

"To me, he's the best player in the league. They're the best team right now, so he definitely deserves it the MVP."

http://sportsreport.freedomblogging.com/...




[b]SHAQ JUST SAID AGAIN TODAY THAT KOBE IS THE BEST!

“Kobe’s the best player in the league right now,” O’Neal said of his former verbal sparring partner. “He’s playing fabulous.”

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/1...



Caron Butler just said Kobe is the best a few days ago:

"Kobe's the best in the game right now, hands down," Butler said of his former Lakers teammate. "When a guy like that gets rolling, you are trying to stop one of the best players ever, and we weren't able to. He had good rhythm going and all the other guys were hitting shots as well.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/...

Crashride
05-22-2008, 04:47 PM
hes good. but good lord the masturbation.

JBucc
05-22-2008, 04:48 PM
Someone has a man-crush.

Fruit Ninja
05-22-2008, 04:52 PM
I am a huge Kobe fan, but wtf was the point of this thread, to pull a Captain Obvious?

BIG_DADDY
05-22-2008, 04:55 PM
I am a huge Kobe fan, but wtf was the point of this thread, to pull a Captain Obvious?

People here at the planet have been saying for the longest that he isn't. Look back at the MVP threads. Even Dirk says he's the best which I really find amusing considering the last time we discussed this.

Only at the planet

Ari Chi3fs
05-22-2008, 04:55 PM
Kobe Daddy should be your name.

the Talking Can
05-22-2008, 04:56 PM
teen girls wanted to hump the back street boys less than you want to hump Kobe....

BIG_DADDY
05-22-2008, 04:58 PM
teen girls wanted to hump the back street boys less than you want to hump Kobe....

LMAO

Silock
05-22-2008, 04:59 PM
Finally, something Big Daddy and I agree on.

Fruit Ninja
05-22-2008, 04:59 PM
People here at the planet have been saying for the longest that he isn't. Look back at the MVP threads. Even Dirk says he's the best which I really find amusing considering the last time we discussed this.

Only at the planet
Deep down people know he's the best player, but they will just not admit it. There's nothing he cannot do. When people say oh he's not the best, i just laugh it off. They usually have no idea wtf they are talking about.

BIG_DADDY
05-22-2008, 05:01 PM
Finally, something Big Daddy and I agree on.

I like soy sauce. LMAO

Basileus777
05-22-2008, 05:03 PM
Duncan is still a very good player, but he isn't in his prime anymore. He's not really in the debate for the best player in the league anymore. Its Kobe and LeBron is the only player close.

L.A. Chieffan
05-22-2008, 05:38 PM
Kobe is so overrated it's not even funny. Biggest ballhog eva. He couldn't hold Jordans jock. He completely destroyed the Lakers franchise by pulling the stupid trade demands and Shaq drama. He doesn't play defense and sits down at the slightest hint of an injury PLUS you can't count on him to take the big shot when you need it most. Jesus he's horrible.

Reaper16
05-22-2008, 05:38 PM
Its Kobe and LeBron is the only player close.
Yup.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-22-2008, 05:42 PM
Someone has a man-crush.

I never knew Big Daddy liked Kobe beef so much.

big nasty kcnut
05-22-2008, 05:54 PM
Best player not named garnett, pearce,lebron or beasley that right a yet undrafted player is better then kobe.

L.A. Chieffan
05-22-2008, 05:55 PM
Best player not named garnett, pearce,lebron or beasley that right a yet undrafted player is better then kobe.

ROFL I thought my post was stupid

Demonpenz
05-22-2008, 06:01 PM
people need to spend more time enjoy greatness and less hating. KC doesn't even have a team

ChiefaRoo
05-22-2008, 06:19 PM
Deep down people know he's the best player, but they will just not admit it. There's nothing he cannot do. When people say oh he's not the best, i just laugh it off. They usually have no idea wtf they are talking about.


I agree, he's the best but it should be noted that he became the best when he started to make his teammates better.

vailpass
05-22-2008, 06:23 PM
Duncan is still a very good player, but he isn't in his prime anymore. He's not really in the debate for the best player in the league anymore. Its Kobe and LeBron is the only player close.

Chris Paul.

alanm
05-22-2008, 06:24 PM
I bet there's a girl in Denver who's had better. ;)

|Zach|
05-22-2008, 06:49 PM
People here at the planet have been saying for the longest that he isn't.

LMAOLMAO

Great thread.

Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan
05-22-2008, 07:02 PM
I bet people never had to start a thread like this to try convince everyone that Michael Jordan was the best.

Basileus777
05-22-2008, 07:14 PM
Chris Paul.

#3. He's not quite there yet.

Fruit Ninja
05-22-2008, 07:44 PM
I bet people never had to start a thread like this to try convince everyone that Michael Jordan was the best.

Thats becuase at 29 years old MJ was not the best. I mean best ever.

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2008, 12:41 PM
Thats becuase at 29 years old MJ was not the best. I mean best ever.

Exactly

POND_OF_RED
05-23-2008, 12:46 PM
Well if Shawn Battier says so then it must be true...

sedated
05-23-2008, 12:52 PM
"sorry I raped that white girl"

Sully
05-23-2008, 12:55 PM
"sorry I raped that white girl"

...In tha BUTT!!!!

El Jefe
05-23-2008, 01:04 PM
Kobe is so overrated it's not even funny. Biggest ballhog eva. He couldn't hold Jordans jock. He completely destroyed the Lakers franchise by pulling the stupid trade demands and Shaq drama. He doesn't play defense and sits down at the slightest hint of an injury PLUS you can't count on him to take the big shot when you need it most. Jesus he's horrible.

Couldn't of said it any better. Except for the horrible part, he is good, just not the best ever, not even close IMO.

StcChief
05-23-2008, 01:14 PM
DILAGAF

Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan
05-23-2008, 01:16 PM
No doubt Kobe's a hell of a player, best in the game today, but.....best ever? No way, that's crazy talk.

Deberg_1990
05-23-2008, 01:16 PM
Im not a Kobe fan, but damn...

If hes not the best basketball player in the NBA, who is better than him??

Basileus777
05-23-2008, 01:17 PM
Couldn't of said it any better. Except for the horrible part, he is good, just not the best ever, not even close IMO.

:LOL:
I guess L.A.Chieffan was too subtle....

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2008, 01:19 PM
:LOL:
I guess L.A.Chieffan was too subtle....

Amazing

dj56dt58
05-23-2008, 01:28 PM
#3. He's not quite there yet.

he finished #2 in MVP voting but Id take Lebron any day over CP3

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2008, 01:32 PM
he finished #2 in MVP voting but Id take Lebron any day over CP3

Yep.

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2008, 01:32 PM
Couldn't of said it any better. Except for the horrible part, he is good, just not the best ever, not even close IMO.
The great thing is at 29, Kobe is talked about now in the same sentence as Jordan. He's not quite there yet, but to even be mentioned in the same line as him by all the major NBA players is quite a damn accomplishment.

If people want to witness greatness. Tune in tonight.

vailpass
05-23-2008, 02:06 PM
Magic at the point, MJ at the off-gaurd, Bird and Malone at F, and Kareem/Wilt/Russel in the middle.

Would any of you start Kobe in place of anyone on this dream team? If so who would you bench in favor of Kobe and why?

Kobe is a nice player, no doubt. He is as good as there is today in a watered down version of the NBA compared to how it used to be IMHO.

But ever since he threw fellow NBA ballers including Shaq under the bus when he was trying to avoid the rape conviction I've had zero respect for the guy. When he pops his jersey or does the throat-slit motion I laugh at him thinking of what Laimbeer or one of the other old-school guys would have done to him if he pulled that pussy shit on them.

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2008, 02:18 PM
How do people ****ing say its watered down? There are alot of damned good teams in the NBA today. There's nothing watered down about it. If so, please explain why? the NBA has pretty much been the way it is since around 1991.

vailpass
05-23-2008, 02:19 PM
How do people ****ing say its watered down? There are alot of damned good teams in the NBA today. There's nothing watered down about it. If so, please explain why? the NBA has pretty much been the way it is since around 1991.

Did you follow the NBA in the 70's, 80's, and 90's?

pr_capone
05-23-2008, 02:22 PM
The great thing is at 29, Kobe is talked about now in the same sentence as Jordan. He's not quite there yet, but to even be mentioned in the same line as him by all the major NBA players is quite a damn accomplishment.

If people want to witness greatness. Tune in tonight.

I like Kobe.... I really do. In fact, he is the best player in the league right now. BUT, there is no way that he should be "talked about now in the same sentence as Jordan"... hell, not even the same paragraph.

Lets compare them based on their first 11 years.

Despite Kobe being a much better 3pt shooter, and playing 111 more games Michael did in his first 11 years, MJ scored a total of 2,870 more points than Kobe has.

Was that because MJ threw up the ball every time he got a chance? Perhaps, but the fact that MJ's FG % is .501 compared to Kobe's .453 has more to do with it. MJ scored over half the times that he put up a shot.

At the free throw line they are nearly identical. MJ was shooting .840 while Kobe has put up a .839 average.

Rebounding is a completely different picture though....

In 111 LESS games than Kobe, MJ hauled in 1304 O-Rebounds to Kobe's 1047. He also hauled in 3575 D-Rebounds which is still more than Kobe's 3543.

People said that MJ was a huge ballhog... well, Kobe is a bigger one. MJ racked up 4377 assists to Kobe's 4002.

But.... Kobe is just as good defensively as MJ was, right?!?!?!

Not even close.

MJ had 2025 steals after his eleventh season, Kobe... a whopping 1321. And as for blocks? MJ had 729 while Kobe sits at 507.

Surely MJ was a turnover machine seeing that he handled the ball as much as he did, right?

Nope.

MJ had a total of 2238 turnovers in his first 11 while Kobe has coughed up the ball 2542 times. He also managed to commit fewer personal fouls with 2036 while Kobe is at 2338.

And now... for the big stat. Total points.

In 111 fewer games, MJ put up a total of 24,489 points. Kobe, 21,619.

------------------

Again... Kobe is good, perhaps even great. But is he the next Jordan? I think not.

pr_capone
05-23-2008, 02:24 PM
Oh yeah.... one last thing. I never heard Jordan throw Pippen or Grant under the bus like Kobe did with Shaq and Phil Jackson.

In fact, I never have heard of Jordan being a locker room cancer unlike Kobe.

vailpass
05-23-2008, 02:29 PM
Oh yeah.... one last thing. I never heard Jordan throw Pippen or Grant under the bus like Kobe did with Shaq and Phil Jackson.

In fact, I never have heard of Jordan being a locker room cancer unlike Kobe.

Nice work on all the stats. One thing I would add: MJ made Pippen so good he got on the 50 all time greatest players list. Does Pippen even sniff that honor without MJ?
Who has Kobe done that with?

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2008, 03:24 PM
I like Kobe.... I really do. In fact, he is the best player in the league right now. BUT, there is no way that he should be "talked about now in the same sentence as Jordan"... hell, not even the same paragraph.

Lets compare them based on their first 11 years.

Despite Kobe being a much better 3pt shooter, and playing 111 more games Michael did in his first 11 years, MJ scored a total of 2,870 more points than Kobe has.

Was that because MJ threw up the ball every time he got a chance? Perhaps, but the fact that MJ's FG % is .501 compared to Kobe's .453 has more to do with it. MJ scored over half the times that he put up a shot.

At the free throw line they are nearly identical. MJ was shooting .840 while Kobe has put up a .839 average.

Rebounding is a completely different picture though....

In 111 LESS games than Kobe, MJ hauled in 1304 O-Rebounds to Kobe's 1047. He also hauled in 3575 D-Rebounds which is still more than Kobe's 3543.

People said that MJ was a huge ballhog... well, Kobe is a bigger one. MJ racked up 4377 assists to Kobe's 4002.

But.... Kobe is just as good defensively as MJ was, right?!?!?!

Not even close.

MJ had 2025 steals after his eleventh season, Kobe... a whopping 1321. And as for blocks? MJ had 729 while Kobe sits at 507.

Surely MJ was a turnover machine seeing that he handled the ball as much as he did, right?

Nope.

MJ had a total of 2238 turnovers in his first 11 while Kobe has coughed up the ball 2542 times. He also managed to commit fewer personal fouls with 2036 while Kobe is at 2338.

And now... for the big stat. Total points.

In 111 fewer games, MJ put up a total of 24,489 points. Kobe, 21,619.

------------------

Again... Kobe is good, perhaps even great. But is he the next Jordan? I think not.
You do know why Kobe has less points then MJ does right? Kobe had to share some good years with Shaq and Shaq was the main focus of the team. Its totally different situation. Kobe came out when he was 18 years old. Didnt play a whole lot in his rookie year. He was gradually brought into play. Also, the game was much different when Jordan played. There was only Man defense. There was no zone D. They had to change the rules becuase teams were averaging 120 points a game. They also had to take out the hand checking rule. totally different NBA now in terms of rules.

I was listening to some radio interview with John Salley and he was talking about it. He went on to say that Kobe is better then Michael. This is his words not mine. He was talking about all the rules and what not. I think he goes, if Kobe didnt have to worry about zone defense and teams had to play him 1 on 1, it would be crazy.

I still think MJ is the greatest ever. Kobe is reaching for that cape though.

pr_capone
05-23-2008, 03:34 PM
You do know why Kobe has less points then MJ does right? Kobe had to share some good years with Shaq and Shaq was the main focus of the team. Its totally different situation. Kobe came out when he was 18 years old. Didnt play a whole lot in his rookie year. He was gradually brought into play. Also, the game was much different when Jordan played. There was only Man defense. There was no zone D. They had to change the rules becuase teams were averaging 120 points a game. They also had to take out the hand checking rule. totally different NBA now in terms of rules.

I was listening to some radio interview with John Salley and he was talking about it. He went on to say that Kobe is better then Michael. This is his words not mine. He was talking about all the rules and what not. I think he goes, if Kobe didnt have to worry about zone defense and teams had to play him 1 on 1, it would be crazy.

I still think MJ is the greatest ever. Kobe is reaching for that cape though.

How many minutes Kobe played in his first year has ZERO bearing on the stats I posted.

Kobe still played in 111 more games than MJ and played about 2k more minutes total through the first 11 years.

Kobe, with more time, still was unable to even come clost to MJ in most stats.... especially defensively, which is what most people resort to when the offensive matchups fail.

"Kobe is every bit as good defensively, if not even better than MJ"

Simply put.... bull shit.

Ok, so MJ was the focus of the O in Chicago and Shaq was the focus in LA for a while. Then if Kobe is so good, why arent his assists through the roof... and WAY below Jordan who was the focal point of Chicago's offense?

ChiefaRoo
05-23-2008, 03:34 PM
IMO

Jordan > Kobe

Kobe > the rest of all the current players playing with the possibility of retiring being = to Jordan.

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2008, 03:59 PM
How many minutes Kobe played in his first year has ZERO bearing on the stats I posted.

Kobe still played in 111 more games than MJ and played about 2k more minutes total through the first 11 years.

Kobe, with more time, still was unable to even come clost to MJ in most stats.... especially defensively, which is what most people resort to when the offensive matchups fail.

"Kobe is every bit as good defensively, if not even better than MJ"

Simply put.... bull shit.

Ok, so MJ was the focus of the O in Chicago and Shaq was the focus in LA for a while. Then if Kobe is so good, why arent his assists through the roof... and WAY below Jordan who was the focal point of Chicago's offense?
Well, Kobe's assists have went up, but for a while there. Kobe's team SUCKED. Kwame Brown, Smush Parker. Chucky Atkins. Slava Medvedenko, Devean George. That was his freaking supporting cast. He had no one to pass it to to make a damned shot.

Look. I already said Jordan is the best, but the NBA is way ****ing different now. Kobe is 29 years old and is on the Verge of his 4th NBA title. Going into the 2008-2009 season with the same team PLUS a healthy Andrew Bynum. This team has a chance to win about 5 in a row.

Gasol 27. Sasha 24. Bynum is 20. Odom 29, Radmonovic is 27, Walton 27, Ariza is 23. Fisher is the old guy at 33. Farmar is 22 i think.


Different time different rules from the early to mid 90's. Kobe scored 81 damn points in a come from behind victory while teams can play zone defense. That was insane.

Remember though, when Jordan played the rules were alot different. I said it in my previous posts, but you seem to not understand. Jordan can have his hands all OVER the guy and it was legal. You cant do that now. Its a different era.

We can have more of this discussion in 3 years.

BIG_DADDY
05-23-2008, 04:04 PM
Well, Kobe's assists have went up, but for a while there. Kobe's team SUCKED. Kwame Brown, Smush Parker. Chucky Atkins. Slava Medvedenko, Devean George. That was his freaking supporting cast. He had no one to pass it to to make a damned shot.

Look. I already said Jordan is the best, but the NBA is way ****ing different now. Kobe is 29 years old and is on the Verge of his 4th NBA title. Going into the 2008-2009 season with the same team PLUS a healthy Andrew Bynum. This team has a chance to win about 5 in a row.

Gasol 27. Sasha 24. Bynum is 20. Odom 29, Radmonovic is 27, Walton 27, Ariza is 23. Fisher is the old guy at 33. Farmar is 22 i think.


Different time different rules from the early to mid 90's. Kobe scored 81 damn points in a come from behind victory while teams can play zone defense. That was insane.

We can have more of this discussion in 3 years.


Plus get Ariza back. The most important stat they say is most titles. Kobe hopefully will pass him in that area. People have different careers as well. There is no telling what Kobe will do in the back half of his career. At this point he just seems to keep getting better. This team has unbelievable potential. Kobe's table is set right now.

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2008, 04:09 PM
Well, Kobe's assists have went up, but for a while there. Kobe's team SUCKED. Kwame Brown, Smush Parker. Chucky Atkins. Slava Medvedenko, Devean George. That was his freaking supporting cast. He had no one to pass it to to make a damned shot.

Look. I already said Jordan is the best, but the NBA is way ****ing different now. Kobe is 29 years old and is on the Verge of his 4th NBA title. Going into the 2008-2009 season with the same team PLUS a healthy Andrew Bynum. This team has a chance to win about 5 in a row.

Gasol 27. Sasha 24. Bynum is 20. Odom 29, Radmonovic is 27, Walton 27, Ariza is 23. Fisher is the old guy at 33. Farmar is 22 i think.


Different time different rules from the early to mid 90's. Kobe scored 81 damn points in a come from behind victory while teams can play zone defense. That was insane.

Remember though, when Jordan played the rules were alot different. I said it in my previous posts, but you seem to not understand. Jordan can have his hands all OVER the guy and it was legal. You cant do that now. Its a different era.

We can have more of this discussion in 3 years.

Plus get Ariza back. The most important stat they say is most titles. Kobe hopefully will pass him in that area. People have different careers as well. There is no telling what Kobe will do in the back half of his career. At this point he just seems to keep getting better. This team has unbelievable potential. Kobe's table is set right now.

Yep, people just wanna compare direct numbers. If we wanna do that, then no one can touch Wilt. He's the goat. lol people with him will say him and Jordan were different era, but its the same now. Rule change. They made it more difficult for offensive players to get off in todays game.

Oh well, people will see what they want to see. I wont ever say that MJ isnt the greatest though. Thats foolish.

SBK
05-23-2008, 05:25 PM
There's a few people here that want the money shot Kobe wanted to give to that girl in Denver.

Kobe in the same sentence as Jordan? That's like saying Trent Green and Elway are equals.

Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan
05-23-2008, 07:19 PM
I just saw a show on fox sports with Albert Pujols and when he was working out/taking batting practice he was wearing a JORDAN t-shirt. I guess his Kobe one was probably dirty.

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2008, 07:24 PM
There's a few people here that want the money shot Kobe wanted to give to that girl in Denver.

Kobe in the same sentence as Jordan? That's like saying Trent Green and Elway are equals.Thats a stupid ****ing post. Green was average at best. Kobe is in the great area.

OH yeah, just to piss people off more. I still think Elway was the greatest QB to ever play. Though, Brady is catching up ****ing fast.

SBK
05-23-2008, 07:37 PM
Thats a stupid ****ing post. Green was average at best. Kobe is in the great area.

OH yeah, just to piss people off more. I still think Elway was the greatest QB to ever play. Though, Brady is catching up ****ing fast.

The only thing those 2 have in common is playing for a team that cheats.

UteChief
05-23-2008, 07:42 PM
I've never heard of the Kobe or Bryant Rules.

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2008, 07:49 PM
The only thing those 2 have in common is playing for a team that cheats.

Coincidence? lol

pr_capone
05-23-2008, 10:46 PM
Well, Kobe's assists have went up, but for a while there. Kobe's team SUCKED. Kwame Brown, Smush Parker. Chucky Atkins. Slava Medvedenko, Devean George. That was his freaking supporting cast. He had no one to pass it to to make a damned shot.

Shaq left LA after the 2003-2004 season. In the seasons following the 03-04 season, Kobe's assists went UP.

So don't feed me a line about how his supporting cast was shit. Perhaps it was but it seems that Shaq leaving made him pass the ball more. Probably because defenders were crashing down on him.

BTW, lets take a look at a few of the Lakers that Kobe has the pleasure of working with during the Shaq years when his assist totals were lower than they have been in the past 4 years afer he left.

Karl Malone (since we are counting one year players ala Chucky Atkins)
Derek Fisher
Horace Grant
Rick Fox
Devean George
Derek Harper
Lindsey Hunter
Eddie Jones
Tyronn Lue
Gary Payton
J.R. Reid
Glen Rice
Mitch Richmond
Isaiah Rider
Bryon Russell
John Salley
Byron Scott
Nick Van Exel

I am sorry, but that is a target rich environment. But this is focusing just on the assist stats.

What about going after the ball? Kobe CANNOT touch MJ when it comes to rebounds and steals. There is a 257 rebound difference between them. And steals??? Forget about it.... there is a 704 difference in steals between them.

The rebounds and steals cannot be blamed on his supposed lack a of supporting cast.

Not to mention the fact that Kobe has coughed up the ball 304 more times than MJ did DESPITE the rules being more stringent on contact.


Look. I already said Jordan is the best, but the NBA is way ****ing different now. Kobe is 29 years old and is on the Verge of his 4th NBA title. Going into the 2008-2009 season with the same team PLUS a healthy Andrew Bynum. This team has a chance to win about 5 in a row.

Without a doubt it is different, but I cannot imagine that the rule changes would account for that HUGE of a disparity in the stats. And while Kobe may be on the Verge of his 4th title, lets not hand it to him QUITE yet.

As to the Lakers having a chance to win a few more rings, I could not possibly agree with you more.

Different time different rules from the early to mid 90's. Kobe scored 81 damn points in a come from behind victory while teams can play zone defense. That was insane.

Remember though, when Jordan played the rules were alot different. I said it in my previous posts, but you seem to not understand. Jordan can have his hands all OVER the guy and it was legal. You cant do that now. Its a different era.

The Zone D rule came into effect in the 02-03 season so half of the stats that are being pulled from Kobe are before the zone D rule change. I will grant you that... with that said, MJ still smoked Kobe stat wise between 96-02.

Look, I am not saying that Kobe is garbage, in fact, I believe he is the best player in the NBA *BY FAR* as of today. BUT... these Jordan / Bryant comparisons need to stop.

People who grew up watching MJ play for the Wizards have no idea of what absolute greatness is and are desperately searching for an identity... a marquee player that they can call their generations MJ, Dr.J, Kareem, and/or Bird.

Is Kobe that player? Perhaps someday, but not today.

Basileus777
05-23-2008, 10:52 PM
Kobe plays in the triangle. Its not an offense designed to pad one player's assist totals. I don't even think Kobe is close to MJ, but stats like steals, assists, and rebounds have little to do with it. Assists and steals aren't very useful stats.

MJ was simply the better defender, and he scored on higher volume with much higher efficiency. Plus Jordan is the greatest playoff performer in NBA history.

pr_capone
05-23-2008, 10:54 PM
Kobe plays in the triangle. Its not an offense designed to pad one player's assist totals. I don't even think Kobe is close to MJ, but stats like steals, assists, and rebounds have little to do with it.

MJ was simply the better defender, and he scored on higher volume with much higher efficiency. Plus Jordan is the greatest playoff performer in NBA history.

Jordan played in the triangle as well :p

Basileus777
05-23-2008, 11:04 PM
Jordan played in the triangle as well :p

Kobe's and MJ's assist totals are identical under Phil. From 89-98 Jordan averaged 5.1 apg. From 98-08 Kobe averaged 5.1 apg.

chubychecker
05-23-2008, 11:40 PM
You can not compare kobe and michael, the game has changed so much. What if Kobe came before Air Jordan??? During Mike's reign very few if any players were even close to as athletic as he was. The league has changed.

Basileus777
05-23-2008, 11:47 PM
There is no difference in athleticism between now and Jordan's era. Thats silly. The difference in athleticism between now and the 60s is overstated, let alone the 80s and 90s. Humans haven't evolved or changed in 10 years. If anything Jordan played in a more competitive era.

pr_capone
05-24-2008, 12:31 AM
Kobe's and MJ's assist totals are identical under Phil. From 89-98 Jordan averaged 5.1 apg. From 98-08 Kobe averaged 5.1 apg.

Phil is a hell of a coach... isnt he?!?!? :D

chubychecker
05-24-2008, 12:47 AM
No way, the NBA is far more competitive now. Not only is the league younger with the number of high school/underclassmen in the nba but also the influx of foreign players has made the talent in the league that much better. If you think the talent was better in the 80's you haven't been watching much basketball.

Remember when Jordan dunked from the free throw line that was a remarkable achievement. Every other team now has a guy that could repeat that feat. Jordan paved the way, but for better or worse, the league evolved and is now more athletic.

sportsman1
05-24-2008, 12:59 AM
Tim Duncan would whoop his a** in the alley. Then we would see how Game 3 comes out.

POND_OF_RED
05-24-2008, 01:02 AM
You can not compare kobe and michael, the game has changed so much. What if Kobe came before Air Jordan??? During Mike's reign very few if any players were even close to as athletic as he was. The league has changed.

Yes because players like John Stockton, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, David Robinson, or Reggie Miller couldn't even grace the court today. Give me a break. MJ came back as an old man (38 and 39 years old) and still put up 20+ a game on most of those athletic players in the league today.

pr_capone
05-24-2008, 01:37 AM
Yes because players like John Stockton, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, David Robinson, or Reggie Miller couldn't even grace the court today. Give me a break. MJ came back as an old man (38 and 39 years old) and still put up 20+ a game on most of those athletic players in the league today.

You left out Manute Bol...

http://thatsonpoint.blogspot.com/manute.jpg

Rausch
05-24-2008, 01:44 AM
I still think Elway was the greatest QB to ever play. Though, Brady is catching up ****ing fast.

BING!

I could smell the stupid, even in a B-Ball thread...:#

Fruit Ninja
05-24-2008, 02:30 AM
Yes because players like John Stockton, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, David Robinson, or Reggie Miller couldn't even grace the court today. Give me a break. MJ came back as an old man (38 and 39 years old) and still put up 20+ a game on most of those athletic players in the league today.They could still play in the league. I dont see why they cant, but the numbers may be a bit different. Rules have changed. It does effect numbers. If it didnt, then why dont teams average 120 points a game like they used to before the zone defense was made legal.

If people want to acknowledge it or not, its different.

pr_capone
05-24-2008, 02:57 AM
Rules have changed. It does effect numbers. If it didnt, then why dont teams average 120 points a game like they used to before the zone defense was made legal.

If people want to acknowledge it or not, its different.

90-91 Chicago Bulls averaged 110 PPG (highest PPG avg in MJ era)

07-08 LA Lakers averaged 108 PPG

But yeah... I totally get what you are saying. You are not at all exaggerating to prove a point.

:rolleyes:

milkman
05-24-2008, 08:10 AM
Nice work on all the stats. One thing I would add: MJ made Pippen so good he got on the 50 all time greatest players list. Does Pippen even sniff that honor without MJ?
Who has Kobe done that with?

Scottie Pippen is underrated by a lot of people because he did play with Jordan, but he was a great player in his own right.

Outstanding ball handler, great passer, and an outstanding defender.

How many titles did Jordan win without Pippen?

I don't think there should be any debate with regards to Jordan being the greatest individual player ever, unless you want to debate Chamberlain.

However,I've said this before, if I were starting a team, I'd start it with Magic.

Jordan, because of his individual greatness, made players around him more effective at what they did well.

Magic made players around him better.

Basileus777
05-24-2008, 11:01 AM
They could still play in the league. I dont see why they cant, but the numbers may be a bit different. Rules have changed. It does effect numbers. If it didnt, then why dont teams average 120 points a game like they used to before the zone defense was made legal.

If people want to acknowledge it or not, its different.

Its called pace. The 90s were the slowest most half-court oriented era of basketball in NBA history. You are overestimating the impact of zone defenses, its not as if teams didn't really use them before. Teams would use what was practically a zone against Jordan all the time. Jordan also played in a more physical era, he played against teams like the Bad Boy Pistons and Riley's Knicks that would just hack the shit out of you. And of course there was the Jordan Rules.

Jordan would be unstoppable in this era without handchecking. He would probably get to the line 12 times a game.

I don't know what you mean, no team has averaged 120 points per game in what 30 years? That was only possible back in the 70s and 60s when the pace was ridiculously high, you know the era where the Suns and Warriors would be by far the slowest teams in the league. The Showtime Lakers are the only team outside that era to play at that pace.

Fruit Ninja
05-24-2008, 11:07 AM
Its called pace. The 90s were the slowest most half-court oriented era of basketball in NBA history. You are overestimating the impact of zone defenses, its not as if teams didn't really use them before. Teams would use what was practically a zone against Jordan all the time. Jordan also played in a more physicall era, he played against teams like the Bad Boy Pistons and Riley's Knicks that would just hack the shit out of you. And of course there was the Jordan Rules.

Jordan would be unstoppable in this era without handchecking. He would probably get to the line 12 times a game.

Its a good debate no doubt, but i have pleaded my case time and time again. I have even heard from past NBA players saying it Jordan would be Jordan, but it would be a little bit different as he would get pounded trying to go inside.

Anyways, like i said i have pleaded my case. I just want Kobe to get ring number 4 at 29.