View Full Version : Football More Pats Cheating...

Marco Polo
05-22-2008, 06:31 PM
Though it's not nearly as serious as the videotape thing...


Tucker agrees with Walsh: Patriots practiced with IR players

Ross Tucker (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5743), a former offensive lineman who played for five teams in a seven-year NFL career, reiterated Thursday that he believes that New England used players on the injured reserve list in practices, which violates league rules.

Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh, in a meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell last week, said that a Patriots player on injured reserve practiced when he wasn't allowed to in 2001. The NFL said it would investigate the claim.

Tucker continued to contend the Patriots used injured players illegally during an interview on ESPN's "NFL Live." He first wrote about it last week on SI.com.

Tucker told "NFL Live" that Patriots coach Bill Belichick will do anything he can "to get an advantage." He also added that using a player on injured reserve in practice was of "minimal" benefit.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2415) about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

"Basically, the Patriots would put a player on IR, knowing it meant he couldn't play in a game or practice with the team for the remainder of the season. By skirting the rules and practicing him anyway, it allowed them to develop his skills during the year. A side benefit is that they were also able to give some of the older players less repetitions and, therefore, additional rest."
Goodell said the NFL would investigate the IR allegations, The Patriot Ledger of Quincy, Mass., reported.

Tucker played with Washington, Dallas, Buffalo, New England and Cleveland during his career. He currently writes for SI.com and hosts a show on Sirius satellite radio.

L.A. Chieffan
05-22-2008, 06:33 PM
Take away their rings.

05-22-2008, 06:35 PM



Skip Towne
05-22-2008, 06:35 PM
String 'em up.

05-22-2008, 06:47 PM
OMG....I'm so sick of the Pats.

Just ban 'em from the league for a year so we can go a year without having to hear about them.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-22-2008, 08:08 PM




Rain Man
05-22-2008, 08:10 PM
I'm starting to think that Bill Belichick is not a genius.

05-22-2008, 08:18 PM
I'm starting to think that Bill Belichick is not a genius.

He's a genius, but a stupid one.

Chief Chief
05-22-2008, 09:38 PM
Who was that Patriots player a few years ago who was basically forced to play or practice even though he'd suffered concussions? This is starting to sound really bad for NE. I wouldn't doubt we'll hear once again that "Every team does it, but we're the one that got caught."

05-22-2008, 09:38 PM
News Reports are now coming out showing Belicheck slipped steroids into Shawne Merriman's "supplement" hoping he would be caught around playoff time. I now believe all downfalls in professional sport of any kind are his or the Patriots fault, including the Chiefs sucking.

05-22-2008, 10:21 PM
I'm not sure why Bellichek feels he needs to cheat to get every little small advantage. He's almost like Tony LaRussa micromanaging with his pitching staff to get even a slight advantage. Does it win games? Probably some but IMO not enough to warrent it. At least he's not following the Broncos or Raiders form of cheating with dirty play.

Ugly Duck
05-22-2008, 11:51 PM
Take away their rings.

Thats too drastic.... leave the Bronkerisks on the SB wins & implement this remedy:

For the next 8 years, the Pats must announce their offensive & defensive calls to their opponent before the snap. That should make up for their 8 years of signal stealing. Even steven.

05-23-2008, 10:16 PM
"Specter said he would prefer the NFL arrange the independent investigation and was willing to wait several months—while he continues to undergo chemotherapy treatments for Hodgkin’s disease—before calling for Congress to take what he called “corrective action.”

With respect to the demand for an independent investigation -- Find out more.

The New York Times

Crisis? What Crisis? A Q&A With Don Goldberg
By Toni Monkovic
May 23, 2008

May 23, 2008, 7:02 am
Crisis? What Crisis? A Q&A With Don Goldberg
By Toni Monkovic

Tags: Matt Walsh, Patriots

Don Goldberg, a crisis management expert for Qorvis Communications, says the N.F.L. and Bill Belichick have failed Damage Control 101.
Goldberg helped one of his clients, the former Patriots videographer Matt Walsh, deal with the news media during the spy scandal. So he’s not an impartial observer. But he knows a little bit about putting out fires, having helped President Clinton manage many of them.

He answered a few questions from the Fifth Down:

Q: What kind of crisis management advice would you have given Bill
Belichick once the N.F.L. confronted him with evidence of his taping in

A: At the time, I’m sure Belichick figured that the less he said, the more
chance he would get away with it; he came up with his story and stuck to
it. That might have seemed like a good gamble, at least at the time. In
retrospect, it didn’t work out so well.

The problem with his approach is that in sports, as in politics, there
is way too much scrutiny. There are too many former players, coaches and
staff — let alone sports writers and fans — to risk drawing a line in the
sand and then having to walk backwards from it. (That’s a political term
of art for making a statement about a scandal, and then having to
abandon it when new evidence leaks out). So, in retrospect, Belichick’s
statement that he didn’t understand that it was against the rules, and
his failure to admit it had been going on for years, was a big mistake.
I would have counseled him to get ahead of the story and accept the
consequences, arguing that appearing sincere and forthcoming would do
far more to protect his reputation than stonewalling. I always advise
clients that if they admit their mistakes and demonstrate humility and
compassion, and offer a way to go forward, the public will forgive them
for almost anything.

Q: What advice would you have given Roger Goodell after he learned of
the taping? And what would you tell him now?

A: Goodell did serious damage to himself in the New York press conference
after his interview with Matt. His repeated contradictions and his lack
of willingness to confront the new information that Matt provided will
be his lasting legacy. I would have advised him to conduct a real
investigation, never destroy the evidence, and to propose a punishment
that fits the offense. He did none of this.

Faced with the new information from Matt, he compounded his problems by dismissing them far too quickly, which made him appear to be part of the Belichick spin machine. My advice would have been to publicly state that he was taking the new information seriously, would review all of the new evidence, and would take appropriate actions if warranted by this information. That would not have committed him to anything, but would have at least created daylight between himself and the Patriots.

Q: I think Belichick blew a big opportunity for closure in his CBS
interview. Do you agree? What would you have told him before his
interview with Armen Keteyian?

A: His problem with the CBS interview is that he gave it before knowing
exactly what Matt was going to say on HBO Real Sports. That was a
mistake. He should have waited until he knew what to respond to.
Instead, he let himself be undercut (yet again) by Matt. I would have
told him to wait to do the interview.

Q: You have quite a varied background, including
one in journalism. How do you think The Boston Herald handled its

A: I don’t know what they thought they had or didn’t have. As a former
investigative reporter, if I were breaking a story of such career-ending
consequences, I would have only gone forward with the story with either
a credible source that was on the record, or else several sources in
which I had great trust. Once they got themselves into that mess, I
think the Herald handled it the only way they could. They had no way of
knowing whether Matt actually had taped the walk-through — which would
have confirmed their story — until he was interviewed by the NFL. Once
they knew he would not confirm their story, they did the mea culpa both
from the paper and the individual reporter.

Q: Can you give us an idea of how much pressure Matt Walsh was under
from reporters from late September until his name surfaced in this
article in The Times?

A: Matt was inundated with calls from reporters. Several even flew out to
Hawaii, and one even booked two hours worth of lessons just to get his
time (and never actually swung a golf club). Part of his job is
answering the phone in the pro shop, and thus he had no way of screening
the calls. Reporters also tracked down his family in Connecticut, and
his friends where he grew up.

Q: The Patriots’ Scott Pioli said Walsh was fired after he was found
to be secretly taping conversations between the two. Obviously, people
are going to surmise that Walsh had a vendetta against the Patriots.
There’s no getting around that, right?

A: Matt was never told that he was fired for taping conversations, and
denies ever taping anyone’s conversations. That allegation was never
raised until the Patriots needed to attack his credibility. In my
opinion, the motives of any witness are a lot less important than the
evidence the witness provides. At the end of the day, the story will not
be about Matt Walsh, but about Belichick and the Patriots.

Q: There’s continuing speculation that Walsh was the source of John Tomase’s “walk-through” article two days before the Super Bowl. Let me test this theory on you: In the game of “telephone,” a phrase is whispered from one child to the next, with inevitable inaccuracies in translation. So Walsh’s version of events — I was there and I saw things that I passed on to Patriots coaches — somehow became: I was there and I “taped” things that I passed on to Patriots coaches. One word of difference, but a world of difference. Thoughts?

A: Sounds plausible. Certainly in the political world, inside information
often ends up hitting the echo chamber and is actually from just one
source. I honestly have no idea what the basis of Tomase’s story was.
Q: Why didn’t Walsh simply tell everyone early on that there was no
walk-through tape?

A: That was not Matt’s decision. It was Michael Levy’s — his attorney, who
counseled Matt not to talk to reporters. Michael is a great lawyer, and
I am sure there were very good reasons for this instruction.

Q: What’s an element of crisis management strategy that might surprise

A: First, that putting a negative story out about yourself in advance of
your adversaries is often a very effective strategy. I could write
10,000 words on reasons why and examples where we have done that to
great success. Second, people leak information for reasons that usually
have nothing to do with strategy or revenge. I could write another
10,000 words on that and why that’s important to understand.

05-23-2008, 10:18 PM
I'm not sure why Bellichek feels he needs to cheat to get every little small advantage.

Arrogance. Plain and simple.

05-23-2008, 11:16 PM
Here's a link to one of the case filed in federal court. Federal court has not yet certified whether the case qualifies as a class-action. The court will determine if all potential plaintiffs suffered the same injury. A few lawsuits closed out for the time being. In due time, it could become a race to the courthouse.


Here's cases on the docket that involves the N.F.L. You should be able to see Phila. Eagles vs Terrell Owens. If not, let me know. I haven't been to the site in a while. http://news.justia.com/cases/national-football-league/

05-23-2008, 11:25 PM
Porter could file a federal civil lawsuit against Belichick and the Patriots. Get enough players together and you have a class-action lawsuit. It gives a whole different flavor to everything that is happening right now.

Porter sounds off, says Patriots 'cheated'
Updated: May 23, 2008, 10:15 PM ET

An angry Joey Porter thinks the Patriots cheated their way to championships and the NFL's destruction of Spygate tapes suggested the league had something to hide after conducting its investigation.

"They [the Patriots] cheated, there should be an asterisk. They cheated and they got caught," the All-Pro linebacker, who spent eight seasons with the Pittsburgh Steelers before joining Miami in free agency last season, said in an interview on "NFL Live."
Walsh sent eight tapes to the league that show the Patriots recording the play-calling signals of five opponents in six games between 2000 and 2002, one of which was the 2002 AFC Championship Game that Porter's Steelers lost to New England 24-17.

"If you're to tell me that happened, there's no way I can look at it and feel like I didn't get cheated," Porter said.

Porter also said that NFL players he knows share similar sentiments about the Patriots concerning Spygate.

"Anybody I know that lost to them in big games, they're very upset about it," Porter said.

The rest of the story: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3409926

05-24-2008, 06:54 AM
I'm starting to think that Bill Belichick is not a genius.

He never was a genius to begin with.

He had little to no talent, and totaled ONE winning season out of SEVEN in Cleveland.

He goes to New England, who has talent up and down the roster, and THEN he starts winning.

Coaching is overrated, IMO. Coordinators are MUCH more important, and have a much higher impact on the outcome of the game.

A "good" head coach might net a team one more win on average, while a "bad" head coach might cost a team one more loss.

You either have talent, or you don't.

05-24-2008, 10:42 AM
Tom Brady & Charlie Weis

The Baltimore Sun
Specter: Independent Spygate probe needed
May 15, 2008

Goodell said the information from Walsh "was consistent with what we disciplined the Patriots for last fall," when the team was docked a 2008 first-round draft pick and coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team $250,000.

Specter held a three-hour meeting with Walsh in Washington on Tuesday. He said Walsh detailed how the team used videotaped signals to their advantage: an offensive player would memorize the signals, watch for them on the sideline and pass them on to assistant coach Charlie Weis, who would then inform quarterback Tom Brady.

The rest of the story: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.nflnotes15may15,0,523459.story

Mainstream media is not going to let this story go... but Specter has the lead. Goodell and company are trying hard to save their a---.