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View Full Version : Video Games Madden 09 producer ventures into hostile ground


Ultra Peanut
05-29-2008, 04:53 AM
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/madden-nfl-football/250613-followup-gang-tackling-response.html

Ian Cummings has sent Operation Sports and other sports gaming forums into a frenzy, and for good reason. When a Madden dev fully admits 2K's superiority in areas like gang tackling and WR/DB interaction (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/2038384344-post113.html), then actively seeks input on gameplay videos from what is honestly a very small, if dedicated, community compared to the number of people who will buy the game sight unseen... strange times we live in.

I find myself being impressed by a Tennessee fan (alum?) who works for EA. Shoot me now. At least I can feel comfortable in the knowledge that John Riccitiello's still a grade-A douche.

Fruit Ninja
05-29-2008, 05:01 AM
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/madden-nfl-football/250613-followup-gang-tackling-response.html

Ian Cummings has sent Operation Sports and other sports gaming forums into a frenzy, and for good reason. When a Madden dev fully admits 2K's superiority in areas like gang tackling and WR/DB interaction (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/2038384344-post113.html), then actively seeks input on gameplay videos from what is honestly a very small, if dedicated, community compared to the number of people who will buy the game sight unseen... strange times we live in.

I find myself being impressed by a Tennessee fan (alum?) who works for EA. Shoot me now. At least I can feel comfortable in the knowledge that John Riccitiello's still a grade-A douche.

what sucks is people wont give another football game another look becuase it doesnt have the NFL logo on it. APF kicks the living shit out of Madden. They even know it.

Whats really funny is 4 years later 2k5 still kicks the crap out of Madden. When football with them went next gen. It took a step back. I didnt hate Madden 05 all that much. It was ok, but when they ramped it up to 360/ps3 ooh no. lol

Short Leash Hootie
05-29-2008, 08:20 AM
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic the Madden on the XBOX Original blows away the Madden on the 360...the gameplay on the original XBOX is magnificent...it is shitty as hell on the 360...unplayable. This year, I am renting 2009 first on the 360...if it still sucks, I will buy Madden for the XBOX and play it on my 360 rather than wasting money on the 360 version to be disappointed once again...

Lzen
05-29-2008, 08:23 AM
what sucks is people wont give another football game another look becuase it doesnt have the NFL logo on it. APF kicks the living shit out of Madden. They even know it.

Whats really funny is 4 years later 2k5 still kicks the crap out of Madden. When football with them went next gen. It took a step back. I didnt hate Madden 05 all that much. It was ok, but when they ramped it up to 360/ps3 ooh no. lol

I think there is another good reason why not many people bought APF. No franchise mode.

Ultra Peanut
05-29-2008, 08:44 AM
I don't know that it's a huge part of the disappointing sales, but I do know that it was one of the early signs of 2K shooting themselves in the foot time and time again by limiting the replayability of its games. From no franchise mode in APF to the straight-up RETARDED design decisions made with Prizefighter, I'm beginning to not care if they get gobbled up by EA.

ZootedGranny
05-29-2008, 08:54 AM
Yeah, reading OS, I've been impressed with Cummings interaction with the fanbase and genuine efforts to please them. Shit, he's already had the graphics team fix the Chiefs helmet logos, which have been about two times too large since the jump to next gen.

TinyEvel
05-29-2008, 11:04 AM
Any of you guys have Madden for a portable gaming device? Is it any good?

ZootedGranny
05-29-2008, 11:32 AM
Madden for the PSP is pretty decent. The DS versions not so much.

KCChiefsMan
05-29-2008, 12:28 PM
the guys from 2K just need to put together a football game that is similiar to the NFL in structure, # of teams, some great, some good and some not so good. Use different cities if you have to, made up players and a really deep franchise mode. With good online play as well and it would blow Madden out of the water. Make it customizable so people out there can just make the uniform's look like NFL teams and players. They could really get creative with that too since there would be no limits with the NFLPA. Have some players get into trouble with the law, have at risk players and an occasional football brawl on the field.

I'm sure that most 2K fans want a new football game with a deep franchise mode and it wouldn't matter if it had the NFL logo or not. Similiar rules and structure to the NFL and it would be awesome, they need to get working on that!!!

Count Alex's Wins
05-29-2008, 12:30 PM
I'd just appreciate something on the PC.

:(

JBucc
05-29-2008, 12:35 PM
I'd just appreciate something on the PC.

:(Just go download the rosters. If they had made an 09 for PC it would have been exactly the same as last year anyway.

Lzen
05-29-2008, 12:55 PM
I don't know that it's a huge part of the disappointing sales, but I do know that it was one of the early signs of 2K shooting themselves in the foot time and time again by limiting the replayability of its games. From no franchise mode in APF to the straight-up RETARDED design decisions made with Prizefighter, I'm beginning to not care if they get gobbled up by EA.

College Hoops is still a great game. ;)

Ultra Peanut
05-29-2008, 02:00 PM
College Hoops is still a great game. ;)
Pour out a 40 for the best sports gaming series there was.

Fruit Ninja
05-29-2008, 03:03 PM
College Hoops is still a great game. ;)

College Hoops for 2k is done. They wanted to much money for a license or something like that.

The thing about some 2k games is that different studios make the games. If you see VC on a product, its going to be a good game. They finally shut down 2k LA. Which they n eeded too, studio just wasnt a good studio imo. They moved alot of the developers from there over to Visual Concepts (btw, the best Sports developers out there. They put games out like NFL2k series. College CH/NBA2k series). Prizefighter game is made by Venom games. They are located in Europe. I have no clue about that game yet. Sometimes i see it, and i am like that looks good, then other times not so much.

Anyways, i think we will get another 2k game, but not this year. They didnt want to make a fully customizable football game becuase they were going to try to get the NFL license back. So they didnt wanna piss off the NFL and make a game to where you can mimic the NFL. Now that they extended it. ITs like **** them if you piss them off. EA is probably going to get it again in 2012.

Anyways, i hope football gaming gets better, because right now its eh.

Count Alex's Wins
05-29-2008, 04:37 PM
Just go download the rosters. If they had made an 09 for PC it would have been exactly the same as last year anyway.

Screw that. I want next-gen graphics on my PC and I want it NOW.

I'd pay $100 for a good next-gen football game on the PC.

Fruit Ninja
05-29-2008, 05:10 PM
Screw that. I want next-gen graphics on my PC and I want it NOW.

I'd pay $100 for a good next-gen football game on the PC.

lol, No you wouldnt, Ya would just download it. lol Thats the reason why they pulled the plug and thats the reason why alot of developers are on PC games.

Adept Havelock
05-29-2008, 05:49 PM
Screw that. I want next-gen graphics on my PC and I want it NOW.

I'd pay $100 for a good next-gen football game on the PC.

Bulls*it. You'd just download a hacked version. So would many others, which is one reason there won't be a PC version. LMAO

Screw Madden. I've got my updated rosters for NFL2K5.

Count Alex's Wins
05-29-2008, 05:50 PM
lol, No you wouldnt, Ya would just download it. lol Thats the reason why they pulled the plug and thats the reason why alot of developers are on PC games.

I'd pay for a worthy product. Madden PC hasn't been worth paying for in a long time.

Adept Havelock
05-29-2008, 06:04 PM
I'd pay for a worthy product. Madden PC hasn't been worth paying for in a long time.

I seriously doubt it. Mass Effect is one of the best RPG's in ages, and you couldn't be bothered to pay for it (from everything you've said on here). You wouldn't buy Madden either.

You pirates made your bed, now lie in the urine soaked sheets. :)

Count Alex's Wins
05-29-2008, 06:22 PM
I seriously doubt it. Mass Effect is one of the best RPG's in ages, and you couldn't be bothered to pay for it (from everything you've said on here).

Mass Effect isn't even OUT yet.

Adept Havelock
05-29-2008, 07:16 PM
Mass Effect isn't even OUT yet.

Fine. Change "couldn't" to "won't", or so you proudly claimed in the ME thread. :rolleyes:

Regardless, no Madden for PC. PBJ PBJ PBJ

Ultra Peanut
06-02-2008, 07:11 AM
This (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/madden-nfl-football/250895-q-ian-cummings-gameplay-09-only.html) makes me so happy:

Is QB accuracy just a dice roll to determine if you are on target or not and do the odds differ depending on what the QB is doing - setting feet, rolling out or running backwards? Are we going to see more off target balls; under throw, over thrown or bobbled balls based on the QB ratings and movement? (fishstick)
QB accuracy is done by creating a zone (that varies in size based on rating) around the "perfect" landing spot to hit the WR in stride, and then rolling a random number to pick the location. This year what we did though was weight all the "zones" away from the defender with err more towards the sideline or over his head. So for the first time you'll see QB's overthrow guys on streaks or put it way out of bounds.

Is there a reason why you have recently started to post on OS and other sites for feedback? Why not start as soon as last years game was over ? (Fu Man Ching)
In our job description, posting to forums is basically not allowed. Phil and I just kind of went rogue to see what would happen. Luckily everyone has seen the positive effects that have been coming out of it, so I think you will see EA start to open up more in this respect.

chiefs1111
06-02-2008, 07:17 PM
I am looking forward to playing ncaa 09,heck i am still playing 08 a lot... Madden on the other hand made a nice beer coaster for me for a long while....

Fruit Ninja
06-02-2008, 07:21 PM
This (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/madden-nfl-football/250895-q-ian-cummings-gameplay-09-only.html) makes me so happy:

Is there a reason why you have recently started to post on OS and other sites for feedback? Why not start as soon as last years game was over ? (Fu Man Ching)
In our job description, posting to forums is basically not allowed. Phil and I just kind of went rogue to see what would happen. Luckily everyone has seen the positive effects that have been coming out of it, so I think you will see EA start to open up more in this respect.

I had a coversation earlier today with my contact from 2k and its in the works for 2k as well. I cant freaking wait for that. I am a huge 2k guy. Its about time companies do this. MMO's do this alot and people love it.

Valiant
06-02-2008, 11:30 PM
the guys from 2K just need to put together a football game that is similiar to the NFL in structure, # of teams, some great, some good and some not so good. Use different cities if you have to, made up players and a really deep franchise mode. With good online play as well and it would blow Madden out of the water. Make it customizable so people out there can just make the uniform's look like NFL teams and players. They could really get creative with that too since there would be no limits with the NFLPA. Have some players get into trouble with the law, have at risk players and an occasional football brawl on the field.

I'm sure that most 2K fans want a new football game with a deep franchise mode and it wouldn't matter if it had the NFL logo or not. Similiar rules and structure to the NFL and it would be awesome, they need to get working on that!!!

Don't know why they do not.. Hell make all the 32 teams in the normal cities and have franchise mode where you can move and edit teams names and logos... It is not the games fault people upload real team logos that are trademarked.. Make it where you can edit player and stats also..

The game can start out like:

AFL American divison

BUF | Raging Bison
MIA | Sharks
NWE | Rebels
NYJ Bitches
BAL | Crows
CIN | Tigers
CLE | Dogs
PIT Ironworkers
HOU | Gold
IND | Mustangs
JAC | Mt. Lions
TEN Goliaths
DEN | Turds
KAN | Warriors
OAK | Rump rangers
SDG Lighting

AFL National Divsions

DAL | Wranglers
NYG | Behemoths
PHI | Turkeys
WAS Indians
CHI | Grizzlies
DET | Sabercats
GNB | Cheeseheads
MIN Pirates
ATL | Predators
CAR | Pumas
NOR | Paragons
TAM seadogs
ARI | roadrunners
STL | Whiny goats
SFO | Gold rush
SEA hawks


Basically a slap in the face to the NFL..

Fruit Ninja
06-03-2008, 12:40 AM
Don't know why they do not.. Hell make all the 32 teams in the normal cities and have franchise mode where you can move and edit teams names and logos... It is not the games fault people upload real team logos that are trademarked.. Make it where you can edit player and stats also..

The game can start out like:

AFL American divison

BUF | Raging Bison
MIA | Sharks
NWE | Rebels
NYJ Bitches
BAL | Crows
CIN | Tigers
CLE | Dogs
PIT Ironworkers
HOU | Gold
IND | Mustangs
JAC | Mt. Lions
TEN Goliaths
DEN | Turds
KAN | Warriors
OAK | Rump rangers
SDG Lighting

AFL National Divsions

DAL | Wranglers
NYG | Behemoths
PHI | Turkeys
WAS Indians
CHI | Grizzlies
DET | Sabercats
GNB | Cheeseheads
MIN Pirates
ATL | Predators
CAR | Pumas
NOR | Paragons
TAM seadogs
ARI | roadrunners
STL | Whiny goats
SFO | Gold rush
SEA hawks


Basically a slap in the face to the NFL..
Thats exactly what they did NOT want to do. This was before the extension though. This is also why they pulled 2k9 imo. From what i have heard, is they are going to see how they can make and market the game.

APF2k8 was just to see if people were actually interested in a non licensed football game. They sold almost 300k copies which isnt bad considering its a barebones online football game.

I do expect their to be a 2k10 with all the fixings. IF we do see one its probably going to be released around the time of the draft so it does NOT have to compete with Madden. Thats a losing battle (capt obvious i know).

Ultra Peanut
06-03-2008, 01:57 PM
Honestly, I've been playing Madden 08 a bit for the first time after getting it from Gamefly to kill some time until GRID comes out, and it's not a bad game. The pick sixes are crazy, and I feel like killing the real Wade Phillips and Tony Romo now after they flushed Omar Starr's awesome season down the toilet in Superstar mode, but it's a lot more solid than I expected it to be after playing 07 for a while.

All of the raving from reliable sources about Madden 09 has me more excited about it than NCAA for pretty much the first time ever. The constant interceptions just sapped my love for that series, and I'm afraid of being burned again.

Basically, either Madden 09 is looking really good, or EA's undertaking a disgusting but effective guerrilla marketing scheme. I almost want to order the 20th anniversary pack with Head Coach included, now. Damnit.

I had a coversation earlier today with my contact from 2k and its in the works for 2k as well. I cant freaking wait for that. I am a huge 2k guy. Its about time companies do this. MMO's do this alot and people love it.Funny you mention MMOs. One example of an MMO making huge strides is when the project lead, Statesman, left City of Heroes/Villains to begin developing Champions Online. Almost instantly, community input was more heavily considered and, from what I hear, things have improved a ton from where they were before he left, since he was honestly kind of a dick about "his vision" being the only one that mattered.

Forums are such a cheap, easy resource to companies that it's almost shameful that there hasn't been more of this give-and-take in the past. Developers can only see so many things from their incredibly close angle of their portion of a game, so it makes an incredible amount of since for people like Ian and Phil to get an outside but committed perspective from people who obsess over these games in a completely different way.

In a way, trying to assess a game you're making is like painting or writing something and trying to judge its quality right after you finish. You're just too close to get a real sense of what you've done.

Valiant
06-03-2008, 05:04 PM
Thats exactly what they did NOT want to do. This was before the extension though. This is also why they pulled 2k9 imo. From what i have heard, is they are going to see how they can make and market the game.

APF2k8 was just to see if people were actually interested in a non licensed football game. They sold almost 300k copies which isnt bad considering its a barebones online football game.

I do expect their to be a 2k10 with all the fixings. IF we do see one its probably going to be released around the time of the draft so it does NOT have to compete with Madden. Thats a losing battle (capt obvious i know).

Thats what they SHOULD do though.. They could not market the features at all but it would be known because of gaming sites.. NFL cannot sue a game company for leaving editing open to the users to change around teams names, player names and stats..

Their 300k games sold would probably triple..

Fruit Ninja
06-03-2008, 10:39 PM
Thats what they SHOULD do though.. They could not market the features at all but it would be known because of gaming sites.. NFL cannot sue a game company for leaving editing open to the users to change around teams names, player names and stats..

Their 300k games sold would probably triple..Thats what alot of us are telling them. Me and the other mods keep telling the guys at 2k this is what needs to happen. I hope they can go as far as letting them add images like they did with Forza Motorsports. If they did that you can get the damn NFL down to a T outside of stadiums. I would love nothing more then to start playing some football games with the Chiefs again. Its been 4 years now :(


I hope they understand that if something like that were to come to fruition that they could make some serious cash off of that. In the end its all up to the higher ups.

Ultra Peanut
06-06-2008, 02:49 PM
Now the lead designer on Head Coach is answering a shitload of questions (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/nfl-head-coach/251227-lead-designer-q-session.html). Amazing.