Would this stimulate the economy?

[Archie F. Swin]

Hows about bringin' the troops home and letting them spend their hazardous duty pay?

:hmmm:

[patteeu]

Probably. But it wouldn't do much for our goals in Iraq.

[Deberg_1990]

Hows about bringin' the troops home and letting them spend their hazardous duty pay?

:hmmm:

You dont think they blow it on new cars, homes, stuff for the family when they get back home between deployments??

[Adept Havelock]

Hows about bringin' the troops home and letting them spend their hazardous duty pay?

:hmmm:

It wouldn't help nearly as much as redirecting the money we're spending in Iraq towards improving our own crumbling infrastructure.

[max sleeper]

Probably. But it wouldn't do much for our goals in Iraq.



Yours and Goober Bush's goals! NOT OURS! Go Chiefs!

[max sleeper]

It wouldn't help nearly as much as redirecting the money we're spending in Iraq towards improving our own crumbling infrastructure.

:thumb:
I second this 110% Go Chiefs!

[Boon]

It wouldn't help nearly as much as redirecting the money we're spending in Iraq towards improving our own crumbling infrastructure.

rep!

[Taco John]

Probably. But it wouldn't do much for our goals in Iraq.

Like most Americans, I have no goals in Iraq.

[StcChief]

where are they going to work?

[banyon]

where are they going to work?

How about the jobs the illegals are filling in trucking and construction?

[StcChief]

How about the jobs the illegals are filling in trucking and construction?sold. I just wonder with 100k troops coming outta of the military.... not sure how many go civilian for work?

lotta career military types for the long haul in for 20 and double dip with a civilian job later.

I don't think the WWII effect of post war guys flooding the job market.

[banyon]

sold. I just wonder with 100k troops coming outta of the military.... not sure how many go civilian for work?

lotta career military types for the long haul in for 20 and double dip with a civilian job later.

I don't think the WWII effect of post war guys flooding the job market.

We could put some of them in the public sector guarding the border too.

[Baby Lee]

How about the jobs the illegals are filling in trucking and construction?

Yeah, that's where they're all working.

Wifey: Honey, there were 2 dozen guys with crew cuts hanging around the front of Home Depot. . .

Flo: Two eggs over easy, hash browns smothered and covered.
Kitchen: Sir! Yes SIR!!! . . .

ROFL ROFL

[banyon]

Yeah, that's where they're all working.

Wifey: Honey, there were 2 dozen guys with crew cuts hanging around the front of Home Depot. . .

Flo: Two eggs over easy, hash browns smothered and covered.
Kitchen: Sir! Yes SIR!!! . . .

ROFL ROFL

Who said that?

[Bugeater]

where are they going to work?
At the concentration camps the gov't is building, silly.

[Baby Lee]

Who said that?

Simmah!!

You post just gave me an amusing visual of military guys filling illegal immigrant work, so I shared.

Those little sunbeams lying on their sides and pounding the floor in laughter were supposed to convey that to you.

[banyon]

Simmah!!

You post just gave me an amusing visual of military guys filling illegal immigrant work, so I shared.

Those little sunbeams lying on their sides and pounding the floor in laughter were supposed to convey that to you.

Besides the migrant produce picking jobs, there are plenty of decent paying jobs that regular legal citizens would be happy to take, but there are two sticking points.

They won't do it in sub-human working conditions with no benefits.

They have to pay taxes on their wages and pay into worker's comp and unemployment, etc.

The illegals filling the meatpacking plants in my town make about $30-40k a year and pay 0 taxes. Plus because they can rarely show income, they use other public resources, food stamps, etc. Were the ICE to come and raid all three of them and deport about 1-2k people, I have no doubt that many of those jobs could be filled by regular citizens. They were for a long time before the illegals came.

Could they do it in poor conditions, off the books, and the corporation maintain the same fat bottom line? Probably not. But the median income in this area would rise in a hurry.

[StcChief]

We could put some of them in the public sector guarding the border too.I like that too.... plenty of jobs are available, but why can't they be filled by Americans,

real simple alot of folks don't wanna do these jobs. Why we have illegals here now. They are being employed.

[Bugeater]

I like that too.... plenty of jobs are available, but why can't they be filled by Americans,

real simple alot of folks don't wanna do these jobs. Why we have illegals here now. They are being employed.

I used feel the same way, but now I wonder if it's because Americans don't want to do those jobs at the wages the illegals are getting paid. It used to be that you could support a family working in the construction or meatpacking industries, but wages in those areas have been stagnant for over a decade because of the flood of cheap illegal labor.

[Bowser]

Probably. But it wouldn't do much for our goals in Iraq.

What goals?

[patteeu]

Besides the migrant produce picking jobs, there are plenty of decent paying jobs that regular legal citizens would be happy to take, but there are two sticking points.

They won't do it in sub-human working conditions with no benefits.

They have to pay taxes on their wages and pay into worker's comp and unemployment, etc.


The illegals filling the meatpacking plants in my town make about $30-40k a year and pay 0 taxes. Plus because they can rarely show income, they use other public resources, food stamps, etc. Were the ICE to come and raid all three of them and deport about 1-2k people, I have no doubt that many of those jobs could be filled by regular citizens. They were for a long time before the illegals came.

Could they do it in poor conditions, off the books, and the corporation maintain the same fat bottom line? Probably not. But the median income in this area would rise in a hurry.

So they aren't such decent paying jobs, afterall?

[patteeu]

What goals?

From max sleeper's new thread:

Our top goal is a stable, freedom-based Iraqi state with a government capable of maintaining order that is an ally in the GWoT and a positive example to others in the region of the benefits of civilization.

Secondary goals, from my pov, would be semi-permanent basing for US military similar to that which we have in many other parts of the world and the ability for US contractors to compete on a level playing field for Iraqi development contracts including, but not limited to, those related to the modernization of Iraqi oil infrastructure.

[banyon]

So they aren't such decent paying jobs, afterall?

que?

[Rain Man]

Before we do that, can we at least try giving me $600?

[Hydrae]

It wouldn't help nearly as much as redirecting the money we're spending in Iraq towards improving our own crumbling infrastructure.

And guess what all that rebuilding of infrastructure would produce? Those jobs everyone was wondering about for the vets to fill!

[Carlota69]

How about the jobs the illegals are filling in trucking and construction?

Yeah, lets offer our soldiers min wage gigs when they get home....:shake:

[banyon]

Yeah, lets offer our soldiers min wage gigs when they get home....:shake:

Uh, those jobs don't pay min. wage.

[Carlota69]

Uh, those jobs don't pay min. wage.

Well, I live with 2 Air Force Airmen, who are making way more than 30k a year. Plus, a friend of mine is a foreman on construction sites here in vegas, and the "illegals" they get to do certain jobs that require alot of hard labor, aren't making even close to 30k.

[patteeu]

que?

Once you add your "two sticking points" to the "plenty of decent paying jobs" that regular citizens would be happy to take from immigrants who are illegally employed now, it's apparent to me that they aren't really decent paying jobs as they're currently configured. Those two sticking points represent a significant increase in the overall benefit package that would have to be offered for an American to want one of those jobs. I guess we could argue about the meaning of "decent" but what I took it to mean was that they were jobs that payed well enough for Americans to line up to take them away. Maybe that's not what you meant by it though.

In any event, I think we could agree that illegal immigrants are currently performing jobs at a price point that Americans, for the most part, wouldn't be willing to match.

[Carlota69]

Once you add your "two sticking points" to the "plenty of decent paying jobs" that regular citizens would be happy to take from immigrants who are illegally employed now, it's apparent to me that they aren't really decent paying jobs as they're currently configured. Those two sticking points represent a significant increase in the overall benefit package that would have to be offered for an American to want one of those jobs. I guess we could argue about the meaning of "decent" but what I took it to mean was that they were jobs that payed well enough for Americans to line up to take them away. Maybe that's not what you meant by it though.

In any event, I think we could agree that illegal immigrants are currently performing jobs at a price point that Americans, for the most part, wouldn't be willing to match.

And our troops deserve better than being offer those shitty jobs, that pay way less than they make as it is, with no benefits to boot.

[Hydrae]

Once you add your "two sticking points" to the "plenty of decent paying jobs" that regular citizens would be happy to take from immigrants who are illegally employed now, it's apparent to me that they aren't really decent paying jobs as they're currently configured. Those two sticking points represent a significant increase in the overall benefit package that would have to be offered for an American to want one of those jobs. I guess we could argue about the meaning of "decent" but what I took it to mean was that they were jobs that payed well enough for Americans to line up to take them away. Maybe that's not what you meant by it though.

In any event, I think we could agree that illegal immigrants are currently performing jobs at a price point that Americans, for the most part, wouldn't be willing to match.

And our troops deserve better than being offer those shitty jobs, that pay way less than they make as it is, with no benefits to boot.

Better than the alternative, no jobs at all.


Just sayin'

[banyon]

Well, I live with 2 Air Force Airmen, who are making way more than 30k a year. Plus, a friend of mine is a foreman on construction sites here in vegas, and the "illegals" they get to do certain jobs that require alot of hard labor, aren't making even close to 30k.

These are jobs that are well above the median income in most states. In Kansas, the median income is $28,000.00.

Do you expect that all returning soldiers or the vast majority should be entitled to jobs that pay above median wages? That would be nice, but it would run counter to every war in American history.

[Carlota69]

These are jobs that are well above the median income in most states. In Kansas, the median income is $28,000.00.

Do you expect that all returning soldiers or the vast majority should be entitled to jobs that pay above median wages? That would be nice, but it would run counter to every war in American history.

They dont get paid more becasue they live in Vegas. Maybe they get a higher "housing" allowance, but their base pay is the same as if they lived here or in Kansas.

I'm saying veterans should and could get better paying jobs than being gophers on a construction site.

[Pitt Gorilla]

n any event, I think we could agree that illegal immigrants are currently performing jobs at a price point that Americans, for the most part, wouldn't be willing to match.I think so. I was completely against amnesty or anything other than deportation, until I saw what the ICE raid did to a local community. Now, I'm not sure what to think. An entire community is dying because 1/6 of it's workforce is now gone. They shouldn't have been there in the first place, but nobody is rushing in to fill the job vacancies.

[banyon]

They dont get paid more becasue they live in Vegas. Maybe they get a higher "housing" allowance, but their base pay is the same as if they lived here or in Kansas.

I'm saying veterans should and could get better paying jobs than being gophers on a construction site.

I thought we were talking about the value of the jobs after service and not their current allowances. I would assume that the same jobs pay above NV's median income as well.

What kind of jobs do you think the returning troops deserve, if not ones that pay higher than average income and don't require specialized training?

[banyon]

I think so. I was completely against amnesty or anything other than deportation, until I saw what the ICE raid did to a local community. Now, I'm not sure what to think. An entire community is dying because 1/6 of it's workforce is now gone. They shouldn't have been there in the first place, but nobody is rushing in to fill the job vacancies.

That's been pretty recent, right?

[Carlota69]

I thought we were talking about the value of the jobs after service and not their current allowances. I would assume that the same jobs pay above NV's median income as well.

What kind of jobs do you think the returning troops deserve, if not ones that pay higher than average income and don't require specialized training?

Yeah, we are. but I'm saying that, after the work they do and the scarifices they've made, they dont deserve to take a pay cut. Nor do they deserve to take on mindless jobs or "bitch" jobs, hence being a gopher on a const. site.

And the difference between this war and say Vietnam or WWII, is technology. Alot of military personnel are trained in computers and things like that. They are doomed just inot hard labor jobs after leaving the military just becasue all they did was haul guns around.

They could do obvious gigs like law enforcement either locally or federally. Surveillance gigs, border patrol that kind of thing. Police officers and such. but the one thing that people miss with military is their obvious attention to detail, discipline and ability to take or give orders. therefore, they are excellent candidates for almost any job with education behind them (which they get int he military, if they choose). For instance, they'd make great teachers. They make great leaders.

My point is they, if they choose and have the drive, deserve and are better than schlepping cement bags around a construction site. Our veterans have alot ot offer any employer, and derserve to paid accordingly.

[banyon]

Yeah, we are. but I'm saying that, after the work they do and the scarifices they've made, they dont deserve to take a pay cut. Nor do they deserve to take on mindless jobs or "bitch" jobs, hence being a gopher on a const. site.

And the difference between this war and say Vietnam or WWII, is technology. Alot of military personnel are trained in computers and things like that. They are doomed just inot hard labor jobs after leaving the military just becasue all they did was haul guns around.

They could do obvious gigs like law enforcement either locally or federally. Surveillance gigs, border patrol that kind of thing. Police officers and such. but the one thing that people miss with military is their obvious attention to detail, discipline and ability to take or give orders. therefore, they are excellent candidates for almost any job with education behind them (which they get int he military, if they choose). For instance, they'd make great teachers. They make great leaders.

My point is they, if they choose and have the drive, deserve and are better than schlepping cement bags around a construction site. Our veterans have alot ot offer any employer, and derserve to paid accordingly.

I appreciate and share your respect and concern for our returning servicemen and women.

I guess i'm just trying to get across the realities, at least as I see them, of the wage scale of these jobs.

You mention teacher and police officer as two possibilities. It's unfortunate, but these are jobs that often pay below the median wage, especially at entry level. I would think that on average, construction and trucking jobs probably earn a higher pay rate than the jobs you've brought up.

I think there was a thread recently where jspchief was complaining about this. He said it was hard to get workers because of the stigmatization that these jobs have undergone in society, even though they pay better than many of the non-stigmatized ones. I'm sure the stigma by association involved with having the illegals comprise such a large portion of the industry does nothing to help matters either.

I guess the question is, is it more important to you that the jobs pay above the median wage or that they be free of social stigma. The former is unrealistic, IMO. The latter is achievable, though I am not sure of how important it is to acheive.

[Carlota69]

I appreciate and share your respect and concern for our returning servicemen and women.

I guess i'm just trying to get across the realities, at least as I see them, of the wage scale of these jobs.

You mention teacher and police officer as two possibilities. It's unfortunate, but these are jobs that often pay below the median wage, especially at entry level. I would think that on average, construction and trucking jobs probably earn a higher pay rate than the jobs you've brought up.

I think there was a thread recently where jspchief was complaining about this. He said it was hard to get workers because of the stigmatization that these jobs have undergone in society, even though they pay better than many of the non-stigmatized ones. I'm sure the stigma by association involved with having the illegals comprise such a large portion of the industry does nothing to help matters either.

I guess the question is, is it more important to you that the jobs pay above the median wage or that they be free of social stigma. The former is unrealistic, IMO. The latter is achievable, though I am not sure of how important it is to acheive.

Yeah, teachers and police don't make base salary wise what they should (police start out at 45kish, but it is known that Vegas pays very well), however they carry excellent benefits. Something that construction jobs dont get typically. And I usually equate benefits into pay scale.
However, even military benefits are a little lacking. Their medical isnt near what you would think.

My overall point was why should our verterans take the jobs that no one else will do, except the "illegals"? In reality, if they do it right, are better and more employable for most jobs. If they do it right, like get the education offered them, they're more than just one step above the "illegals".

And yes, I think teachers and police and careers like that should be paid more, but it is very unrealistic. But again, they do have great retirment plans and medical benies--did that answer your question?

[Carlota69]

And I agree, construction can pay very well. AS I'm sure trucking can too. My friend makes a grip of cash, but he is the boss. The "illegals" that (dont) work for him, dont make shit. So, I took offense to the idea that veterans should just take the shit job from the 'mexicans". I think they deserve better than that.