Hate Speech?

[Logical]

I keep hearing this phrase used and I think in most cases completely inappropriately.

I would like someone to provide concrete examples of where
The Priest Pflager
and
Rev Jeremiah Wright
or
Pastor Hagee

Actually engage in hate speech.

Maybe in an isolated case but it certainly does not appear to be common place.

By the way disliking America is not Hate Speech. Pointing out oppression is not hate speech. Even the occasional bizarro ramblings of Pastor Wright concerning Aids is not hates speech.

So where is all the hate speech.

Please provide exact quotes.

[patteeu]

What do you mean by "hate speech"?

[Brock]

It's a liberal concept. Why don't you explain it to us.

[Logical]

What do you mean by "hate speech"?

You tell me, it is constantly barraged at us from all the Fox News talking heads and I hear it all the time on conservative talk radio.

Hate speech to me is when a group advocates the destruction or at least violence towards another group. I have heard none of that except one isolated case of a conservative pastor (not sure which one) who advocated the destruction of all Muslims especially those in the US.

[patteeu]

You tell me, it is constantly barraged at us from all the Fox News talking heads and I hear it all the time on conservative talk radio.

Hate speech to me is when a group advocates the destruction or at least violence towards another group. I have heard none of that except one isolated case of a conservative pastor (not sure which one) who advocated the destruction of all Muslims especially those in the US.

According to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech), the term is a little broader than you're giving it credit for being:

Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views, socioeconomic class, occupation or appearance (such as height, weight, and hair color), mental capacity and any other distinction-liability.

Here is a quote from Jeremiah Wright spoken to a group of mostly black congregants:

Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!…We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.

And another:

The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for over 40 years now. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community and wake up Americans concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism.

It seems to me that the definition fits the first quote if you assume that he's blaming "white America", but if you give him the benefit of the doubt and understand him to be suggesting that both whites and blacks are white supremacists, it might not.

The second quote seems to be clearly within the definition as it incites prejudice against a group on the basis of their nationality.

But whether you want to call the things Jeremiah Wright has said "hate speech" or not, it's a toxic message he's preaching. And Obama is nipple deep in the Trinity community whether he resigns from the church at this late date or not.

[Logical]

You tell me, it is constantly barraged at us from all the Fox News talking heads and I hear it all the time on conservative talk radio.

Hate speech to me is when a group advocates the destruction or at least violence towards another group. I have heard none of that except one isolated case of a conservative pastor (not sure which one) who advocated the destruction of all Muslims especially those in the US.Being as anyone can type anything in Wiki it is not the most reliable of sources. For something general or historical thus verifiable, I like it. For a specific definition it is not so good.


I prefer this one from Answers.com

US Supreme Court: (http://www.answers.com/library/US%20Supreme%20Court-cid-2226692) Hate Speech
Unique among courts in the world, the Supreme Court has extended broad protection in the area of hate speech—abusive, insulting, intimidating, and harassing speech that at the least fosters hatred and discrimination and at its worst promotes violence and killing. The justices have consistently held that statutes punishing speech or conduct solely on the grounds that they are unseemly or offensive are unconstitutionally overly broad. Only by protecting all forms of speech can the public be assured of uninhibited, vigorous, and wide‐open debate.

[Messier]

According to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech), the term is a little broader than you're giving it credit for being:



Here is a quote from Jeremiah Wright spoken to a group of mostly black congregants:



And another:



It seems to me that the definition fits the first quote if you assume that he's blaming "white America", but if you give him the benefit of the doubt and understand him to be suggesting that both whites and blacks are white supremacists, it might not.

The second quote seems to be clearly within the definition as it incites prejudice against a group on the basis of their nationality.

But whether you want to call the things Jeremiah Wright has said "hate speech" or not, it's a toxic message he's preaching. And Obama is nipple deep in the Trinity community whether he resigns from the church at this late date or not.



If that's some of the harsher stuff that Wright has said then there really aren't legs to this story. It's very tame.

[Logical]

...
But whether you want to call the things Jeremiah Wright has said "hate speech" or not, it's a toxic message he's preaching. And Obama is nipple deep in the Trinity community whether he resigns from the church at this late date or not.
Actually of all the things I have heard quoted from Pastor Wright the only one that actually bothers me is the US Government promoting aids in the black community comment.

[patteeu]

Being as anyone can type anything in Wiki it is not the most reliable of sources. For something general or historical thus verifiable, I like it. For a specific definition it is not so good.


I prefer this one from Answers.com

That doesn't sound much different to me, and it too is more broad than your definition.

[patteeu]

If that's some of the harsher stuff that Wright has said then there really aren't legs to this story. It's very tame.

But yet, your candidate discarded Wright like a hot potato after he'd been mentored by the man on spiritual matters for 20 years and just weeks after saying the man was like family. You might think that someone who believes we live in a land of white supremacy is very tame, but I think he's a toxic divider who preaches victimhood and resentment.

[Messier]

But yet, your candidate discarded Wright like a hot potato after he'd been mentored by the man on spiritual matters for 20 years and just weeks after saying the man was like family. You might think that someone who believes we live in a land of white supremacy is very tame, but I think he's a toxic divider who preaches victimhood and resentment.

I don't think it was like a hot potato, more like a warm muffin. It took awhile and it didn't seem easy (because that muffin looks so tasty!). I guess it's the whole walk a mile thing. Wright is a man of the 60's a civil rights child, and I guess it's hard to give up on the inequalities he's witnessed and probably been involved in. I'm saying I can see exactly were someone like Wright is coming from, victimhood with the convenience of being an actual victim, and even if he's not anymore, I don't begrudge someone being bitter, if they have something to be bitter about.

Unlike someone like Hagge, who, as far as I can tell has no real personal experience for his public feeling, and your candidate actively endorsed his support. Did your candidate know about some of the things Hagge had said? I don't know, but he knew the mans beliefs, I'm sorry for me, when you put the two situations together, the Hagge endorsement is worse. I'm sorry but that's how I feel about your candidate.

[chagrin]

You tell me, it is constantly barraged at us from all the Fox News talking heads and I hear it all the time on conservative talk radio.

Hate speech to me is when a group advocates the destruction or at least violence towards another group. I have heard none of that except one isolated case of a conservative pastor (not sure which one) who advocated the destruction of all Muslims especially those in the US.

your kidding right? hate speech was created by libs and cnn, geesh dude - you can't be "evil" if you're not using all the info.


Having said that, it's all free speech so who cares anyway...lame topic

[patteeu]

I don't think it was like a hot potato, more like a warm muffin. It took awhile and it didn't seem easy (because that muffin looks so tasty!). I guess it's the whole walk a mile thing. Wright is a man of the 60's a civil rights child, and I guess it's hard to give up on the inequalities he's witnessed and probably been involved in. I'm saying I can see exactly were someone like Wright is coming from, victimhood with the convenience of being an actual victim, and even if he's not anymore, I don't begrudge someone being bitter, if they have something to be bitter about.

Unlike someone like Hagge, who, as far as I can tell has no real personal experience for his public feeling, and your candidate actively endorsed his support. Did your candidate know about some of the things Hagge had said? I don't know, but he knew the mans beliefs, I'm sorry for me, when you put the two situations together, the Hagge endorsement is worse. I'm sorry but that's how I feel about your candidate.

LMAO The old "Hell, I'd be anti-American too if I walked in his shoes" excuse. Very consoling.

FWIW, I barely support McCain so calling him my candidate is a little off the mark. Hagee might be a bigot, but he isn't anti-American like so many of Obama's friends and fellow travelers.

[DaKCMan AP]

LMAO

FWIW, I barely support McCain so calling him my candidate is a little off the mark. Hagee might be a bigot, but he isn't anti-American like so many of Obama's friends and fellow travelers.

You don't consider bigotry to be 'anti-American'?

[patteeu]

You don't consider bigotry to be 'anti-American'?

If it's anti-American bigotry as expressed by Jeremiah Wright then yes. If it's bigotry against fat people or old people or Catholics or Canadians (for a few examples), no.

[DaKCMan AP]

If it's anti-American bigotry then yes. If it's bigotry against fat people or old people or Catholics or Canadians (for a few examples), no.

So then as long as the bigotry is not anti-American bigotry, then you consider bigotry to be 'American'. Gotcha.

[Radar Chief]

So then as long as the bigotry is not anti-American bigotry, then you consider bigotry to be 'American'. Gotcha.

So, no bigotry exists outside America?

[Baby Lee]

So then as long as the bigotry is not anti-American bigotry, then you consider bigotry to be 'American'. Gotcha.

Wheeet!!! Logic foul.

False Dilemma.

Bigotry regarding thinks ancillary to a conceptualization of 'America' [fat people, short people, smelly people] is not either American or anti-American. It's America-neutral or America-irrelevant.

[DaKCMan AP]

So, no bigotry exists outside America?

People consider baseball to be 'American' or patriotism to be 'American' - do either exist outside America? I wasn't aware that American characteristics have to be exclusive to America.

[Logical]

If it's anti-American bigotry as expressed by Jeremiah Wright then yes. If it's bigotry against fat people or old people or Catholics or Canadians (for a few examples), no.So really in your view Hitler had it right, hating Jews was fine as long as he loved Germany uber alles.

[Logical]

Wheeet!!! Logic foul.

False Dilemma.

Bigotry regarding thinks ancillary to a conceptualization of 'America' [fat people, short people, smelly people] is not either American or anti-American. It's America-neutral or America-irrelevant.That misses the point, the point is that patteeu approves of it as long as it is not anti-American bigotry.

[Baby Lee]

That misses the point, the point is that patteeu approves of it as long as it is not anti-American bigotry.

"It's not 'anti-American'" ≠ "I approve"

[Baby Lee]

So really in your view Hitler had it right, hating Jews was fine as long as he loved Germany uber alles.

Is this some new phenomenon?

Godwin's lack of understanding of logical structure?

[patteeu]

People consider baseball to be 'American' or patriotism to be 'American' - do either exist outside America? I wasn't aware that American characteristics have to be exclusive to America.

You are using "anti-American" in a different way than I am. I'm neither agreeing with your interpretation of 'American' nor disagreeing with it.

Personally, when choosing a President, I'm less concerned about a bigotry against broccoli than I am about a bigotry against the country itself.

[patteeu]

So really in your view Hitler had it right, hating Jews was fine as long as he loved Germany uber alles.

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. Up with Hilter! Down with the Jews (and the Canadians)! :rolleyes:

edit: I guess I should add a /sarcasm tag for the benefit of Ill-Logical and anyone else who's having trouble coloring within the lines.

[DaKCMan AP]

You are using "anti-American" in a different way than I am. I'm neither agreeing with your interpretation of 'American' nor disagreeing with it.

Personally, when choosing a President, I'm less concerned about a bigotry against broccoli than I am about a bigotry against the country itself.

Are you implying that Obama is an Anti-American bigot and/or that you don't care if a potential Presidential candidate is a bigot towards certain types of Americans, but not against the country itself? Do you also consider bigotry against Americans (African Americans, Jewish Americans, Catholic Americans, etc.) to not be bigotry against America?

[Radar Chief]

That misses the point, the point is that patteeu approves of it as long as it is not anti-American bigotry.

Ah, so your “point” is to play got’cha with Patt.
Sorry to interfere with your personal vendetta.

[Radar Chief]

People consider baseball to be 'American' or patriotism to be 'American' - do either exist outside America? I wasn't aware that American characteristics have to be exclusive to America.

This was my question to you, can you not answer it?

[Logical]

"It's not 'anti-American'" ≠ "I approve"Sure sounded like he approved, just as long as the bigotry was not anti-American.

[patteeu]

Are you implying that Obama is an Anti-American bigot and/or that you don't care if a potential Presidential candidate is a bigot towards certain types of Americans, but not against the country itself? Do you also consider bigotry against Americans (African Americans, Jewish Americans, Catholic Americans, etc.) to not be bigotry against America?

I'm saying that Obama has long term, cordial (at a minimum) relationships with a number of controversial people who seem to have serious anti-American streaks. McCain does not have those types of associations, afaict, with anyone other than his less-than-eye-to-eye associations with his Vietnamese captors during his extended stay at the Hanoi Hilton.

"It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks' greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere…That's the world! On which hope sits!" - A passage from a Wright sermon related with admiration in Obama's book, Dreams of My Father and which later inspired the title of his second book.

[Logical]

By the way I am still waiting on all those Hate Speech quotes, so far I have seen being quite liberal at most 2. Yet the media is making it sounding like these clergyman are filling the airwaves.

[little jacob]

doesnt the first amendment protect hate speech?

[Baby Lee]

doesnt the first amendment protect hate speech?

OMG!! The first amendment is unAmerican!! ROFL ROFL

[Logical]

doesnt the first amendment protect hate speech?Yes

[bkkcoh]

doesnt the first amendment protect hate speech?

I just thought the 1st amendment only protected your right to speech until it infringed on others.


You can be arrested for yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater, can't you?

Free speech shouldn't be confused with no consequences from what was said.

[little jacob]

Yes

i think the right answer is 'for now'

[Logical]

I just thought the 1st amendment only protected your right to speech until it infringed on others.


You can be arrested for yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater, can't you?

Free speech shouldn't be confused with no consequences from what was said.

Although what you have stated is basically correct, the Supreme Court came down squarely in protecting hate speech with this statement

US Supreme Court: (http://www.answers.com/library/US%20Supreme%20Court-cid-2226692) Hate Speech
Unique among courts in the world, the Supreme Court has extended broad protection in the area of hate speech—abusive, insulting, intimidating, and harassing speech that at the least fosters hatred and discrimination and at its worst promotes violence and killing.The justices have consistently held that statutes punishing speech or conduct solely on the grounds that they are unseemly or offensive are unconstitutionally overly broad. Only by protecting all forms of speech can the public be assured of uninhibited, vigorous, and wide‐open debate.

[Sully]

doesnt the first amendment protect hate speech?

Is someone her condoning outlawing it?

[little jacob]

I just thought the 1st amendment only protected your right to speech until it infringed on others.


You can be arrested for yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater, can't you?

Free speech shouldn't be confused with no consequences from what was said.

what people call hate speech has nothing to do with yelling fire. it is just a way to try to intimidate people you want to shut up

[Messier]

LMAO The old "Hell, I'd be anti-American too if I walked in his shoes" excuse. Very consoling.

FWIW, I barely support McCain so calling him my candidate is a little off the mark. Hagee might be a bigot, but he isn't anti-American like so many of Obama's friends and fellow travelers.

I don't thinK I'd call Wright anti-American. It's a big tent.

Well if you plan on voting McCain I guess he's your candidate.

[bkkcoh]

Although what you have stated is basically correct, the Supreme Court came down squarely in protecting hate speech with this statement

US Supreme Court: (http://www.answers.com/library/US%20Supreme%20Court-cid-2226692) Hate Speech
Unique among courts in the world, the Supreme Court has extended broad protection in the area of hate speech—abusive, insulting, intimidating, and harassing speech that at the least fosters hatred and discrimination and at its worst promotes violence and killing.The justices have consistently held that statutes punishing speech or conduct solely on the grounds that they are unseemly or offensive are unconstitutionally overly broad. Only by protecting all forms of speech can the public be assured of uninhibited, vigorous, and wide‐open debate.

People should be able to say almost anything they want to, but they have to be able to handle the actions caused by their comments.

what people call hate speech has nothing to do with yelling fire. it is just a way to try to intimidate people you want to shut up

But both can incite panic and/or worse!