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BWillie
06-07-2008, 01:16 PM
I've finally updated my resume and cover letter and have posted it on careerbuilder. Haven't really got around to applying for many positions yet, but it seems like every call I get is either a shitty job that pays less than mine or a sales job that is 100% commission and it just seems really shady. They say you will make 150K a year, but I know better.

My question is how do I sort out what sales jobs are BS and which jobs are legitimate opportunities?. I know 90% of these jobs out there are scams, but I never know. I don't have enough time to waste going to six interviews a week to just waste my time. I know there are good jobs out there..my dad is in sales and makes 150-175K a year, and one of my buddies who failed out of college and who I swear cannot read has one for about 75K a year. Seems all of my college friends make less than the friends that didn't go to college, and they are all in sales. I know you need to have a knack for sales, but I have excelled in every position I have ever had, and I know I could do almost anything given the proper tools to succeed.

Whenever you look for jobs it's like they want to keep it top secret how much you make. When they call and I ask they still don't really tell me. Even if they told me some sort of definite range like "75% of our first year candidates make X". That is all I want to know, bottom line, how much will I make. If I'm not going to make more than I make now, why on earth would I waste my time. They would be wasting their own time as well when they get to the end of the interview and go and this job starts at $37,000 a year.

SBK
06-07-2008, 01:22 PM
If you don't know how to sell go to a company that has a fantastic sales training program.

Nzoner
06-07-2008, 01:29 PM
Although I flunked out of college I got the best degree ever in socializing and meeting people and have been selling advertising for my own company for almost 18 years.

As for sales,take my word on this,you only need 1 book to make your career a great one.

Tom Hopkins

http://imshopping.rediff.com/books/imagechek/books/pixs/67/0446386367.jpg

Friendo
06-07-2008, 01:34 PM
the top 20% of sales peeps drive 80% of the sales--always has/always will be the case. that's why you're not getting a "straight answer". instead, I would ask what the top 20% "range" is. that, would be a better start in many ways ;)

Rain Man
06-07-2008, 04:26 PM
I always wonder about this too, not that I'm looking. I always hear that top salespeople make extraordinary money, but it always looks to me like the sales jobs that are advertised are total scams.

Bwana
06-07-2008, 04:32 PM
I always wonder about this too, not that I'm looking. I always hear that top salespeople make extraordinary money, but it always looks to me like the sales jobs that are advertised are total scams.


A lot of them are.

BWillie
06-07-2008, 04:34 PM
A lot of them are.

Which ones?? How do you know? Are most sales jobs that don't offer at least some sort of base a scam? My dad and the friend I know all have a base, then earn salary.....then I see all these jobs for 100% commission saying you should be able to make 100K to 150K a year.

Bwana
06-07-2008, 04:40 PM
"How do I know?" Because I am in sales. There are also a lot of them that are above board. A big red flag is if you have your resume on CB, or monster and they call you without putting in for a specific job...........watch out. If they won't tell you exactly what the job entails and "want to talk to you in person," it's likey a crap job. If you see the same company with the same job on-line over and over, it's a shit job. Pick and choose and you should be fine.

Nzoner
06-07-2008, 04:44 PM
Which ones?? How do you know? Are most sales jobs that don't offer at least some sort of base a scam? My dad and the friend I know all have a base, then earn salary.....then I see all these jobs for 100% commission saying you should be able to make 100K to 150K a year.

Sales is nothing more than the people business,if you have a good product and you radiate confidence in that product you'll do fine.Not saying there aren't alot of scams out there but I've always looked at it as there's a very fine line between a con man and a salesman.

A salesman loves people and uses money

A Con Man loves money and uses people

trndobrd
06-07-2008, 04:48 PM
If you have to purchase training tapes or make your money from distributors that you recruit, it might be a scam.

Bwana
06-07-2008, 04:50 PM
If you have to purchase training tapes or make your money from distributors that you recruit, it might be a scam.

Might be? :D

jspchief
06-07-2008, 05:09 PM
Use a headhunter. The yaren't going to set you up with those "scam" type of sales jobs.

Also, think about what it is you're selling. Everything you buy in a store was also sold to a store. 95% of the items in that store are repeat sales. That's the kind of job you want to aim for. A job that has good existing base sales, and your opportunity to make more arises from what you do above and beyond that base. If a large portion or your sales are generated off of cold calls, it's going to be a very tough place to start.

B_Ambuehl
06-07-2008, 05:23 PM
Look for something that has base pay plus commission. Companies that pay base don't want to waste their money on people who just quit so they'll spend time training you. It costs a company nothing to pay people on straight commission so they expect to go through 10 salesmen to find 1 good one.

Most of the "scams" you're seeing aren't scams.....non salespeople think everything non-salaried is a freaking scam. But for those straight commission jobs 1 out of 10 people will make big bucks and the other 9 will quit and talk shit about the company.

Some personalities are not cut out AT ALL for sales. Typically the better you do in formal education (ore the more labcoat and professor oriented you are), the more difficult you're gonna find it in sales.

58-4ever
06-07-2008, 05:49 PM
I've found it to be a good idea to find companies you'd like to work for and apply on their website directly. Find them, don't let them find you.

BIG_DADDY
06-07-2008, 06:38 PM
Big items usually equal big pay days. Jobs that can provide you with a residual income can equal big dollars as well. You gotta decide what your happy with as well. My years in the health club industry were about as fun as it gets. Selling time share on an island or in Mexico where you live on the resort can be a kick int he ass as well.

The head hunter idea usually doesn't work in sales unless it's in a specialized field you already have the background in. Tech sales would be a good example of that.

BIG_DADDY
06-07-2008, 06:40 PM
One more thing, small fast growing companies provide you with opportunity. You don't want to go some place where someone needs to die in oreder for you to move up.

macdawg
06-07-2008, 06:56 PM
If you believe in the product and enjoy talking to people you can succeed. I recommend finding some companies/industries your extremely interested in and trying to get into their sales departments, opposed to posting a resume on careerbuilder and letting every insurance company in town offer you a 100% commission sales job where top performers make 175k.

Mojo Rising
06-07-2008, 07:45 PM
Most sales jobs require hunter skills vs. farmer skills. With this in mind you need to create a strategy in your search.

Figure out what you want to sell and then find the best companies that do it in your area. Call them and ask for their VP of Sales and introduce yourself and let him/her know you would like to come in for an interview.

If it is an industry that requires experience in the field then take an inside sales job to learn the ropes.

If a company does not offer a salary and training then they are not investing in you and you will be disposable. This sounds like the kind of calls that you are getting.

Sales requires the ability to take rejection. When cold calling you have to have the mentality that the person who just hung up on you or blew you off could be standing next to you later that afternoon while getting your lunch and won't even know it.

Headhunters and commission only jobs are good when you have industry experience and relationships that you can bring with you.

Pablo
06-07-2008, 08:11 PM
I'll be out of college next year with a degree in Economics and a minor in International Affairs.

I have no f*cking clue what I want to do with this degree. I've thought about Life Insurance/Annuity sales...is there anyone on the board who specializes in this line of business, and any advice? Is it any different than other types of sales careers?

KCChiefsMan
06-07-2008, 08:33 PM
I went to an interview with this marketing/sales firm called KBN Promotions. I went for this interview, showed up 10 minutes late because I couldn't find it. She sat down and asked me a few questions, then I asked her a few questions and she told me to come back tomorrow for a 9 hour 2nd interview. I told her I would be there and then went online and found a bunch of complaints that they brought them out in the field for this 2nd 9 hour interview and went to a gas station and tried to sell car wash crap to people trying to pump gas and other crap like that.

I didn't show up for that one.

Mojo Rising
06-07-2008, 08:42 PM
I'll be out of college next year with a degree in Economics and a minor in International Affairs.

I have no f*cking clue what I want to do with this degree. I've thought about Life Insurance/Annuity sales...is there anyone on the board who specializes in this line of business, and any advice? Is it any different than other types of sales careers?

These days it is more difficult than other types of sales jobs (vs. biz 2 biz) thanks to the do not call list.

You can cold call businesses all day long for services for them. You can't call individuals if they are on the dnc list.

You will be reduced to networking and other passive types of marketing strategies.

Plus, are the annuities/life insurance for investment reasons or risk management? If they are for investment reasons you should be able to find a better product to sell.

ChiefsCountry
06-07-2008, 09:58 PM
I went to an interview with this marketing/sales firm called KBN Promotions. I went for this interview, showed up 10 minutes late because I couldn't find it. She sat down and asked me a few questions, then I asked her a few questions and she told me to come back tomorrow for a 9 hour 2nd interview. I told her I would be there and then went online and found a bunch of complaints that they brought them out in the field for this 2nd 9 hour interview and went to a gas station and tried to sell car wash crap to people trying to pump gas and other crap like that.

I didn't show up for that one.

I ended up appling to a company here in KC that was the exact same thing. They claimed they a sports marketing company, which is my major and it was in KC so I was thinking score. Went to an interview said they liked my resume could back for a second which was a job shadow. Thought okay that sounds alright, well I spent eight hours going around Kansas City going door to door at strip malls while trying to sell these gift cards. Basically it was solictiating and it was horrible. I knew it was going to be bad when we to a gas station and the guy I shadowed with bought a pack of cigargettes so he would act like he was smoking not to get busted by security for the strip malls for solicating. Just say I didnt take that job.

KCChiefsMan
06-07-2008, 11:19 PM
I ended up appling to a company here in KC that was the exact same thing. They claimed they a sports marketing company, which is my major and it was in KC so I was thinking score. Went to an interview said they liked my resume could back for a second which was a job shadow. Thought okay that sounds alright, well I spent eight hours going around Kansas City going door to door at strip malls while trying to sell these gift cards. Basically it was solictiating and it was horrible. I knew it was going to be bad when we to a gas station and the guy I shadowed with bought a pack of cigargettes so he would act like he was smoking not to get busted by security for the strip malls for solicating. Just say I didnt take that job.

ya, I knew better to even go to the 1st interview, but I always saw them on careerbuilder. Which was a big red flag, but I went basically on curiosity and job interview practice. What a sham, they advertise "recent college grads!" "Sports marketing!" "work in sports!" I also majored in sports management, I can't get a job in that field.

kcfan82
06-07-2008, 11:23 PM
Just remember that if you get into any kind of information technology/application sales, be sure to know more than 1/10th of what a product can do. Don't just say it will do something, even though you have no clue if it will, just to make a sale.

Just a little sound advice :)

ChiefsCountry
06-07-2008, 11:31 PM
ya, I knew better to even go to the 1st interview, but I always saw them on careerbuilder. Which was a big red flag, but I went basically on curiosity and job interview practice. What a sham, they advertise "recent college grads!" "Sports marketing!" "work in sports!" I also majored in sports management, I can't get a job in that field.

I had to take a down graded position to work in sports. I work for a sporting goods company now, I'm taking classes as well to finish up on another degree I had so it works out pretty well hopefully this winter I cant get back into professional sports. Pay isnt the greatest but I enjoy going to work so that is more important to me anyways.

burt
06-08-2008, 09:36 AM
I haven't had to look for a job in 20 years, but when I did, there were "group interviews" .....:rolleyes: Avoid them at all costs(if they still do it), those are for scams.

As for not telling what the pay is, I always tell what the spread is and what I would expect someone to make when I interview a potential candidate. BTW, we ARE hiring now.....:D

Buehler445
06-08-2008, 09:42 AM
My question is how do I sort out what sales jobs are BS and which jobs are legitimate opportunities?. I know 90% of these jobs out there are scams, but I never know. I don't have enough time to waste going to six interviews a week to just waste my time. I know there are good jobs out there..my dad is in sales and makes 150-175K a year, and one of my buddies who failed out of college and who I swear cannot read has one for about 75K a year. Seems all of my college friends make less than the friends that didn't go to college, and they are all in sales. I know you need to have a knack for sales, but I have excelled in every position I have ever had, and I know I could do almost anything given the proper tools to succeed.



I feel you dude, I got my MBA last spring and was looking for a NONsales job in finance. I used Monster and got precisely 0 legitimate calls. A lot of "financial companies" sell insurance. Some even pretend to do financial planning to support it. Terrible.

I'm no salesman, but I did think about doing financial planning, which is sales for 3-5 years and then you get to do financial planning. I interviewed several companies and decided that I think I would be one hell of a financial planner, but couldn't grow my business for shit, so I looked elsewhere. But from that, I got to look at how several different companies handle you.

My advice to you is early on find out how they will support you. If you have to try to build a client base from people you know, it is going to be a tough row to hoe. But if they throw some bones your way, or a paid mentorship (best IMO), that is something you want to look into. Also, you HAVE to believe in what the company is selling, or it will absolutely reflect in your interaction with potential customers. I would say that maybe 1-2% of salesman can effectively sell something they don't believe in.

If you want to go into financial planning, let me know, I'll tell you what I know about the companies I looked into. As far as where you should go, I agree that you should call the companies you know you want to work for and can believe in their product and try to apply. That goes for any job, not just sales.

I'll be out of college next year with a degree in Economics and a minor in International Affairs.

I have no f*cking clue what I want to do with this degree. I've thought about Life Insurance/Annuity sales...is there anyone on the board who specializes in this line of business, and any advice? Is it any different than other types of sales careers?

I admit I don't know anything about you or what you want to do, but if I were you, I would try to get some experience elsewhere first. A lot of corporations are hurting for astute kids that have some education. If I were you, I would send some applications out for jobs that sound interesting. It doesn't necessarily have to deal with econ either. I've got a buddy that is a Training Manager for Cabela's, but got his Master of Accountancy. Not really sure how he got into training, but it seems to work out for him.

The reason I say to try to catch on in a company first is because you can ALWAYS go into sales. At any point in your life, if you feel like going into sales, you can drop what you're doing and go into sales. But typically, sales skills aren't all that applicable in most business settings. Accordingly, 5 years experience in sales won't wow a lot of employers.

Don't get me wrong, I have NOTHING against salesmen. In fact, I have a tremendous respect for the ones that do it correctly and provide value for both sides. But it seemed like when I got out of school, if you couldn't program, all that was available was sales, and its really not like that. There are a lot of companies out there looking for good, talented, ambitious people. But the turnover is so high for a lot of sales positions, that they go after ambitious college kids and hope one sticks.

Best of luck, guys. Finding a job/deciding on a career is a trememndous decision and it blows.

EDIT: This is all JMO, from my experience in defining my career.

Spott
06-08-2008, 09:43 AM
I've never found jobs directly from careerbuilder, monster, etc. but I have used it as a good search engine. Just put in keywords to search what you are looking for, then find the name of the company that is hiring, then go to that company's website and apply directly with them.