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Tribal Warfare
06-16-2008, 02:57 AM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/06/16/the_urban_myth_about_the_chiefs_and_their_no_1s/



The Urban Myth about the Chiefs and Their No. 1s

Jun 16, 2008, 3:02:07 AM by Bob Gretz (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/bob_gretz/) - FAQ (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2004/01/19/bob_gretz_faq/)


http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/images/E46C46FA59F9454A968DAD76775D1B6B.JPG?0.14700646721172628


In the vacuum that includes the Chiefs and the media that cover the team, the club is supposedly one of the worst in the league when it comes to signing first round draft choices to that initial contract. Some of the pundits and talk show hosts are already rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of a pair of first round holdouts this year at Arrowhead Stadium with Glenn Dorsey and Brendan Albert.
Based on what they write and what they say, who could possibly think otherwise that the Chiefs drag their feet and are extra tough in negotiations, especially when it comes to their earliest selections.
The truth, however, is something quite different. Over the most recent five-year period of signing first-round picks (2003-07), the Chiefs rank in the middle of the league when it comes to getting their first choice signed. They are neither the team that is the earliest of signers or the latest. They arenít even close to being the team that suffers the most first round holdouts.
That would be the Arizona Cardinals. Theyíve had six first-round picks in that five-year period and only twice did they get their man signed in July.
There are six teams at the other end of the spectrum; they were able to sign their first round draft choices before the end of July: Dallas, Denver, Houston, New Orleans, San Francisco and Tampa Bay.
We use the end of July for a reason. The fact that a player misses the start of training camp is inconsequential. If he signs by the end of July, that generally means heíll miss no more than five or six days of practice work, time easily made up especially in this day of off-season programs. Itís when the holdouts stretch into August and beyond that cause problems for the draft choice and the team.
The Chiefs had four first round picks in those most recent five seasons. Hereís when they signed a contract:
2003-Larry Johnson, July 17.
2005-Derrick Johnson, July 31.
2006-Tamba Hali, July 27.
2007-Dwayne Bowe, August 5.Bowe was the only negotiation that stretched into August. Obviously, that brief holdout did not have a serious effect on his first season, as Bowe broke every rookie receiving standard in the teamís record books and was the leading rookie receiver in the NFL.
Among the 31 other NFL teams, 17 clubs had a first-round draft choice over the last five years that held out longer than Bowe.
Here are the facts. Decide for yourself where the Chiefs rate when it comes to getting their No. 1s signed.
http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/images/604B95B1671F4CAD927E802CCB6721BD.GIF?0.4106462335462009
Based on the last five years, hereís something to look for when it comes to first round signings, not only with the Chiefs, but around the league: those five seasons had a total of 160 first round selections and one-third of them (53) signed on July 26, 27 or 28. And, 74 percent (119 of 160) signed before July 31st.
Already this yearís group is unusual in that three of the 31 selections already have a signed contract: first pick Jake Long, third choice Matt Ryan and fourth selection Darren McFadden. In the previous five years combined there were only three players who signed before July 1st among all the first-round picks: Carson Palmer signed on April 25, 2003 with Cincinnati, Jason Babin signed on June 26, 2004 and Mario Williams signed on April 28, 2006 with Houston.
The facts in this debate no longer matter to the Chiefs/Carl Peterson Haters. For every John Tait (September 9th signing) they throw out, they forget to mention Dale Carter (signed on June 1st). For every Ryan Sims (August 28th signing), there was a Victor Riley (signed on July 2). The Chiefs have not been the best or the worst team at getting contracts for their first-round picks. They are pretty average.
But the key thing about an urban myth is this: you never let the facts get in the way of the myth.

SPchief
06-16-2008, 03:09 AM
I've never posted on topics like this, but Carl must be desperate when he puts up charts and graphs

Claynus
06-16-2008, 03:23 AM
So the Chiefs are mediocre in something. There's news.

keg in kc
06-16-2008, 03:26 AM
The idea that the Chiefs are bad at getting their rookies signed is bullshit. People like to harp on it, but it just isn't reality.

The real problem is that they consistently draft busts on day 1 of the draft. For every Dwayne Bowe there's a Sylvester Morris. Or three. That's what needs to be (and hopefully has been) fixed.

kstater
06-16-2008, 03:28 AM
Yes Keg, but the same could be said for a lot of teams. There are hardly any sure things.

keg in kc
06-16-2008, 03:42 AM
Yes Keg, but the same could be said for a lot of teams. There are hardly any sure things.There's a reason the Chiefs are finally "rebuilding". I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a franchise that drafted worse than they did from 1994 through 2005.

CrazyPhuD
06-16-2008, 03:48 AM
There's a reason the Chiefs are finally "rebuilding". I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a franchise that drafted worse than they did from 1994 through 2005.

:Poke: The lions?

keg in kc
06-16-2008, 04:03 AM
The lions?I'm sure it's close.

The fact that we're talking about them in the same breath proves my point...

CrazyPhuD
06-16-2008, 04:47 AM
Actually considering 1994-2007, I'd be willing to say the chiefs did better than 1/2 the rest of the NFL drafting in the first round.

In that time the chiefs had 12 first round picks.

1 Hall of Famer(tony)

1 Star (LJ)

5 good to great players(Woods, Tait, DJ, Hali, Bowe)

2 average players(Riley, G. Hill)

2 Legit busts (sims, jenkins)

1 injury shortened(slyMo)

Nearly 60% of the first round picks have been at least good starters, with a Hall of Famer and an NFL star mixed in. Not that bad considering the average draft position was 21.

InChiefsHell
06-16-2008, 04:51 AM
Actually considering 1994-2007, I'd be willing to say the chiefs did better than 1/2 the rest of the NFL drafting in the first round.

In that time the chiefs had 12 first round picks.

1 Hall of Famer(tony)

1 Star (LJ)

5 good to great players(Woods, Tait, DJ, Hali, Bowe)

2 average players(Riley, G. Hill)

2 Legit busts (sims, jenkins)

1 injury shortened(slyMo)

Nearly 60% of the first round picks have been at least good starters, with a Hall of Famer and an NFL star mixed in. Not that bad considering the average draft position was 21.

Um, excuse me sir, but this is not the proper tone for Chiefs Planet. Facts are not appreciated, and you must submit to the constant hate and Carl bashing or be accursed...thank you for your prompt attention in this matter.

keg in kc
06-16-2008, 04:59 AM
Actually considering 1994-2007, I'd be willing to say the chiefs did better than 1/2 the rest of the NFL drafting in the first round.

In that time the chiefs had 12 first round picks.

1 Hall of Famer(tony)

1 Star (LJ)

5 good to great players(Woods, Tait, DJ, Hali, Bowe)

2 average players(Riley, G. Hill)

2 Legit busts (sims, jenkins)

1 injury shortened(slyMo)

Nearly 60% of the first round picks have been at least good starters, with a Hall of Famer and an NFL star mixed in. Not that bad considering the average draft position was 21.You're more generous than I am. I see two pro bowlers (TG/LJ) and a bunch of wasted picks, with the jury still out on DJ, who has the talent to be a pro-bowler. Tait was, in my mind, probably the best of the rest, but I've never been a big fan; I think he's a poor left tackle who can up his play to mediocre if you put him on the right side and give him help. The rest you mentioned are nothing to write home about. They certainly did not form the foundation of the franchise, which is what the draft in general is for, and the first round in particular. Where are the cornerstone players? TG and LJ. Out of 12 drafts, although obviously they didn't have a first every year.

(Hali and Bowe came in 2006 and 2007, respectively, so they don't fall into the period I mentioned, that being 1994-2005. Those are Herm picks, and we'll see how they play out.)

And I said first day of the draft, not just first round. There's a long string of 2nd round busts, and they rarely got anything of value out of the 3rd after Shields in '93. Colquitt's probably the best 3rd round pick of the period.

Just horrible. Draft after draft after draft they whiffed, and because of it, the franchise had absolutely no foundation.

beach tribe
06-16-2008, 05:02 AM
You're more generous than I am. I see two pro bowlers (TG/LJ) and a bunch of wasted picks, with the jury still out on DJ, who has the talent to be a pro-bowler. Tait was, in my mind, probably the best of the rest, but I've never been a big fan; I think he's a poor left tackle who can up his play to mediocre if you put him on the right side and give him help. The rest you mentioned are nothing to write home about. They certainly did not form the foundation of the franchise, which is what the draft in general is for, and the first round in particular. Where are the cornerstone players? TG and LJ. Out of 12 drafts, although obviously they didn't have a first every year.

(Hali and Bowe came in 2006 and 2007, respectively, so they don't fall into the period I mentioned, that being 1994-2005. Those are Herm picks, and we'll see how they play out.)

And I said first day of the draft, not just first round. There's a long string of 2nd round busts, and they rarely got anything of value out of the 3rd after Shields in '93. Colquitt's probably the best 3rd round pick of the period.

Just horrible. Draft after draft after draft they whiffed, and because of it, the franchise had absolutely no foundation.

Yep, it's not all about the first rnd. Our 2nds have been horrible. Thirds too.

keg in kc
06-16-2008, 05:02 AM
Um, excuse me sir, but this is not the proper tone for Chiefs Planet. Facts are not appreciated, and you must submit to the constant hate and Carl bashing or be accursed...thank you for your prompt attention in this matter.That's what I love about this place. Whatever I say, half the board will bitch because they think I'm supporting Carl and half the board will bitch because they think I'm bashing Carl.

ROFL

CrazyPhuD
06-16-2008, 05:12 AM
Well perhaps you're looking with a little to critical glasses. Here's the bears comparison(the browns aren't much better).

2 Stars (Urlacher, Tommy Harris)

2-3 Good/great(Walt Harris, Grossman, maybe marc colombo)

2 average players(thierry, Terrell)

5 busts(salaam, Enis, McNown,Micheal Haynes, Cedric Benson(although he could make a comeback).

Now who's first round would you rather have?

keg in kc
06-16-2008, 05:34 AM
You're locked on the first round. I'm not (although, again, the first round is not good over the period). I'm talking about the entire draft, 1 to 7. Look at it round-by-round, year-by-year and get back to me. We're talking about a 'hit' in the first round about every 5 years, zero hits in the second round, maybe 2 hits in the 3rd, 2 or 3 hits in the 4th, one hit in the 5th (Dante Hall - like him or not, Joe Horn was not a hit here...) and one hit in the 7th (Eric Warfield, everybody's favorite whipping boy for about 5 years). Over a 12 year period.

If you want to look at it a different way, then let's just go back to 1999. Make it a little more relevant to the here-and-now.

Q: How many players drafted between 1999 and 2005 are on this roster right now?

A: I believe the answer to that question is three. Derrick Johnson, Dustin Colquitt and Larry Johnson. Three players out of fifty-two Chiefs draft picks from 1999 to 2005 will be contributing to this team in 2008. Or make it 2003, so it's not almost a decade back in history, and it's still three players, this time out of twenty-four. One player per draft.

That's why the Chiefs are 'rebuilding'; that's the point I'm trying to make. They failed to build a core of players through the draft. Hopefully the work that started (IMO) in earnest during the 2007 offseason has helped to fix that.


Funny, all of this has grown out of a simple comment that there's no real reason to complain about the Chiefs getting their players signed.

keg in kc
06-16-2008, 05:37 AM
Come to think of it, maybe it's four players - Svitek is still on the team, I believe.

Still, bad...

Mecca
06-16-2008, 06:03 AM
It's about a hell of alot more than the first round, you're first 3 picks should without a doubt be major contributors with atleast 2 of them starting by the 2nd year...

beach tribe
06-16-2008, 06:18 AM
It's about a hell of alot more than the first round, you're first 3 picks should without a doubt be major contributors with atleast 2 of them starting by the 2nd year...

If your going to be worth a shit, that's gotta be the case.

CoMoChief
06-16-2008, 08:27 AM
The Chiefs have poorly drafted in the first day all together which is why we have always needed to sign veterans to plug holes. The guys we drafted simply couldn't play.

Theres just no excuse for the shit can drafts we had under DV. Good lord.

blueballs
06-16-2008, 08:39 AM
Rural truth
Gretz -Carls bathroom attendant
a hired turd polisher on the payroll says plenty

Brock
06-16-2008, 08:48 AM
Yes, Carl. You've done everything just right. The only reason this team is where it is is because of bad luck. That's all, just bad luck.

Chief Faithful
06-16-2008, 09:02 AM
I think Gretz just recycled one of his columns from last year about this sametime.

Chiefnj2
06-16-2008, 09:39 AM
You're locked on the first round. I'm not (although, again, the first round is not good over the period). I'm talking about the entire draft, 1 to 7. Look at it round-by-round, year-by-year and get back to me. We're talking about a 'hit' in the first round about every 5 years, zero hits in the second round, maybe 2 hits in the 3rd, 2 or 3 hits in the 4th, one hit in the 5th (Dante Hall - like him or not, Joe Horn was not a hit here...) and one hit in the 7th (Eric Warfield, everybody's favorite whipping boy for about 5 years). Over a 12 year period.

If you want to look at it a different way, then let's just go back to 1999. Make it a little more relevant to the here-and-now.

Q: How many players drafted between 1999 and 2005 are on this roster right now?

A: I believe the answer to that question is three. Derrick Johnson, Dustin Colquitt and Larry Johnson. Three players out of fifty-two Chiefs draft picks from 1999 to 2005 will be contributing to this team in 2008. Or make it 2003, so it's not almost a decade back in history, and it's still three players, this time out of twenty-four. One player per draft.

That's why the Chiefs are 'rebuilding'; that's the point I'm trying to make. They failed to build a core of players through the draft. Hopefully the work that started (IMO) in earnest during the 2007 offseason has helped to fix that.


Funny, all of this has grown out of a simple comment that there's no real reason to complain about the Chiefs getting their players signed.

The Chiefs drafting was very poor during those years, but if you go back to 1999 you've got two different head coaches and a host of different coordinators. Every coach and coordinator wants to bring in his own players. That's also part of the reason why there are so few players on the team.

StcChief
06-16-2008, 09:42 AM
The facts in this debate no longer matter to the Chiefs/Carl Peterson Haters. For every John Tait (September 9th signing) they throw out, they forget to mention Dale Carter (signed on June 1st). For every Ryan Sims (August 28th signing), there was a Victor Riley (signed on July 2). The Chiefs have not been the best or the worst team at getting contracts for their first-round picks. They are pretty average.
But the key thing about an urban myth is this: you never let the facts get in the way of the myth.
So put up a chart for 2002-2007
but talk about players before that? (Tait,Carter) WTF Why not go thru all 19 of King Carl's drafts with other teams. not just last 5 years, how tough could it be an extra hour of work. ?

Bowser
06-16-2008, 10:13 AM
That article was incredibly Rufus-esque.

keg in kc
06-16-2008, 10:20 AM
The Chiefs drafting was very poor during those years, but if you go back to 1999 you've got two different head coaches and a host of different coordinators. Every coach and coordinator wants to bring in his own players. That's also part of the reason why there are so few players on the team.That would be a valid point except for the fact that the majority of these players aren't only no longer on the Chiefs, but no longer in the league.

CoMoChief
06-16-2008, 10:50 AM
The fact that we took Ryan Sims based on what a former DV coach told him, and the fact that we DRAFTED EDDIE FREEMAN WITOUT WORKING HIM OUT, BUT BY TAKING HIM TO DINNER AND LIKING HIS PERSONALITY.

Can't even believe that happened.

Wasn't he a 2nd round pick? And we didn't even bother to work him out. Unbelievable........

mikey23545
06-16-2008, 10:53 AM
Yes, Carl. You've done everything just right. The only reason this team is where it is is because of bad luck. That's all, just bad luck.

Is that really what it said in that article? I missed it.

Fruit Ninja
06-16-2008, 11:00 AM
I dont know why he listed Hali. I think that dude is just average passrusher and a horrible against the run becuase he's not strong.

Ari Chi3fs
06-16-2008, 11:15 AM
I can't listen to Bob Gretz with Carls' junk in his mouth. Too mumbly.

CoMoChief
06-16-2008, 11:17 AM
Yes, Carl. You've done everything just right. The only reason this team is where it is is because of bad luck. That's all, just bad luck.

Playoffs in '95 was a case of bad luck IMO, but that's about it.

Same could go with Sly Morris. He wasn't bad before his career ending injury.

Brock
06-16-2008, 12:16 PM
Is that really what it said in that article? I missed it.

It wouldn't surprise me.

Buehler445
06-16-2008, 05:32 PM
Dude, this is a giant flaming pile of poo article. Holy cow.

OnTheWarpath58
06-16-2008, 07:06 PM
I quit reading after Gretz called Branden Albert "Brendan Albert".

Real professional.

Claynus
06-16-2008, 07:07 PM
I quit reading after Gretz called Branden Albert "Brendan Albert".

Real professional.

That's almost as bad as WPI.

kc rush
06-16-2008, 09:29 PM
I quit reading after Gretz called Branden Albert "Brendan Albert".

Real professional.

"I'd like to nominate Darrius Thomas for the hall of fame. Everyone here knows that he was weak against the run, but Carl likes him so I like him. I say vote for Darrius Thomas because Carl likes him."