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View Full Version : Elections The Flip-Flop Obsession


Direckshun
07-02-2008, 07:31 AM
Michael Scherer does a great job breaking down the phenomenom of American politics' crazed foaming-at-the-mouth over somebody changing their mind.

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/07/the_flipflop_obsession.html

The Flip-Flop Obsession

It's hard to remember now, but there was once a time when "flip-flop" was not the scarlet letter of presidential politics. I remember getting off the train in Boston, on my way to the 2004 Democratic National Convention, only to find two young Republican activists dressed like human-sized sandals. It took me a moment to understand that they were calling John Kerry cheap footwear. And I thought to myself, well that's cute, but it will never really work.

Oh, but it did, not only with the sandals, but the windsurfing back and forth. The most frustrating thing is that the flip-flop charge that most stuck--Kerry voted for war funding before he voted against it--was almost entirely without merit. It had nothing to do with Kerry waffling on a key issue, and everything to do with a complex voting process in the Senate. It was exactly the kind of "flip-flop" that does not mean what it seems to mean. His bigger problem--he had once supported the Iraq war, but by then opposed it--was the sort of "flip-flop" that politicians should be proud to make. Would we rather that they stubbornly stick with what they view as mistakes just so they could avoid the flip-flop charge?

But the legacy of Bush/Cheney '04 remains, and Democrats have apparently learned their lesson. The core message of the Obama/DNC campaign is that McCain has flip-flopped on all his old maverick image. The key message of the McCain/RNC campaign is that Obama is an opportunist who will flip-flop when it helps him politically. And so it goes. Every day, flip-flop charges bang up against the political press like moths on a screen door. And we let some of them in, sometimes with the unexamined conceit that any shift in position is a window into the candidate's lack of character, toughness or principle.

So how do we cull the moths to separate bogus flip-flop charge from valuable one? Does it matter that in Obama's new ad he is boasting of promoting welfare reform that he originally opposed? Should it matter that McCain's call for offshore oil drilling contradicts his past positions? What about Obama's shifts on public financing or the DC gun ban? Or McCain's reversal on the 2001 Bush tax cuts? Or Obama's shift on the FISA bill? Or the unending emails I get about specific votes that prove Senator X or Senator Y has been on two sides of every issue, even though every Senate bills often bundle together a dozen issues forcing Senators to vote yes for things they don't like and no for things they like?

The answers, unfortunately, are not easy. The three questions that matter most are these: Is the change substantial, or superficial? Was it done for political expediency? Was it done to fool the voting public? If you just watch the Youtube montages attacking the candidates as rudderless, which flatten any shift into an outrage with selective quotes, you are likely to be misled. For example, it seems to me a much bigger deal that McCain now supports the Bush tax cuts he once railed against, than it is that he decided to support the G.I. Bill, even though he fought against key parts of it before it passed. In the same way, I am not sure it matters so much that Obama opposed welfare reform in the mid-1990s, and now supports it. (It worked, after all, say most experts.) But it might be a real concern that he is now boasting of welfare reform in his ads, as if he had always supported it, and this shows what a visionary he is.

The bottom line to an otherwise overlong blog post is this: Both of these candidates are now pandering heavy to the general election body politic, just as they pandered heavy to the primary public. (On this point, see my last Time.com story about McCain's immigration dance.) But all panders are not created equal, and not everything that can be called a flip-flop is a mark of shame. The world is not so simple that every politician should always stick by their old positions, regardless of the world's changes around them. If anyone needs evidence of this, they need only look so far as the stubborn failures of the current White House occupant.

Direckshun
07-02-2008, 07:33 AM
I personally am getting exhausted with the flip-flop charges constantly being fired across the bow from EVERY SINGLE campaign in America for the past four years.

Flip-flopping can be a sign of opportunistic political expediency, but it is not always that way.

And painting either of these presidential candidates as a serial flip-flopper is an idiotic way to reduce the dialogue of this election.

HonestChieffan
07-02-2008, 07:37 AM
Going from full on abortion proponant to refering to himself as a born again christian .....tsk tsk

Campaign funding....hmmmm

Faith based initiatives....well...

banyon
07-02-2008, 07:41 AM
Going from full on abortion proponant to refering to himself as a born again christian .....tsk tsk

Campaign funding....hmmmm

Faith based initiatives....well...

There is absolutely nothing inconsistent about being a born again Christian and being pro choice, despite your rather snaggle-toothed conflation to the contrary.

Few people are "abortion proponants" (sic.).

dirk digler
07-02-2008, 07:41 AM
Going from full on abortion proponant to refering to himself as a born again christian .....tsk tsk

Campaign funding....hmmmm

Faith based initiatives....well...

I was for immigration reform before I was against it
I was against the Bush tax cut before I was for it
I was against torture before I was for it
I was for my own bill on campaign finance reform before I was against it
I was against the GI bill before I took credit for it

This all in the last 3 months

tsk tsk

mlyonsd
07-02-2008, 07:44 AM
I personally am getting exhausted with the flip-flop charges constantly being fired across the bow from EVERY SINGLE campaign in America for the past four years.

Flip-flopping can be a sign of opportunistic political expediency, but it is not always that way.

And painting either of these presidential candidates as a serial flip-flopper is an idiotic way to reduce the dialogue of this election.

LOL, nice sentiment but as you can already tell from posts in the thread it's falling on deaf ears.

dirk digler
07-02-2008, 07:50 AM
LOL, nice sentiment but as you can already tell from posts in the thread it's falling on deaf ears.

hcf started it :harumph:

HonestChieffan
07-02-2008, 07:52 AM
Tis a change of heart to some, a flip flop to others and a justifiable inconsistancy to a few.

banyon
07-02-2008, 08:00 AM
Tis a change of heart to some, a flip flop to others and a justifiable inconsistancy to a few.

What's the "inconsistancy"? (sic.)

Direckshun
07-02-2008, 08:28 AM
LOL, nice sentiment but as you can already tell from posts in the thread it's falling on deaf ears.
No shit.

The American political mind, let me tell you.

noa
07-02-2008, 12:26 PM
The mods should just create a filter so that any word typed in this forum appears: flipflop

For example:

Flipflop flipflop fliplop flipflop flipflop, flipflop flipflop flipflop! Flipflop. :cuss:

patteeu
07-02-2008, 01:57 PM
I was for immigration reform before I was against it
I was against the Bush tax cut before I was for it
I was against torture before I was for it
I was for my own bill on campaign finance reform before I was against it
I was against the GI bill before I took credit for it

This all in the last 3 months

tsk tsk

Of course, most of that is not true.

BucEyedPea
07-02-2008, 02:02 PM
I remember getting off the train in Boston, on my way to the 2004 Democratic National Convention, only to find two young Republican activists dressed like human-sized sandals.


ROFL

But all panders are not created equal, and not everything that can be called a flip-flop is a mark of shame. The world is not so simple that every politician should always stick by their old positions, regardless of the world's changes around them. [/b]If anyone needs evidence of this, they need only look so far as the stubborn failures of the current White House occupant.[/b]

Scheuer is wise beyond words. It's a GE now. Good point. :thumb: Even Barr has changed some of his positions and I believe those are pretty much sincere. When you hang with a new political crowd things are bound to rub off on you.

bango
07-02-2008, 07:33 PM
ROFL



Scheuer is wise beyond words. It's a GE now. Good point. :thumb: Even Barr has changed some of his positions and I believe those are pretty much sincere. When you hang with a new political crowd things are bound to rub off on you.

How has Barr changed? Is he still too socially conservative to be a Libertarian?

clemensol
07-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Flip-Flopping as an issue is nothing more than a tool for the media. Every candidate for president flip-flops fairly blatantly so it allows the media a free attack on a candidate when they want it. Right now, Obama has a lead so the media is going after his flip-flops because they are invested in making the race as close as possible.

BucEyedPea
07-05-2008, 10:11 PM
How has Barr changed? Is he still too socially conservative to be a Libertarian?

Google LewRockwell.com and read about it there. Type in the Libertarian convention and/or Barr. It'll take me too long.

I say he's still more a conservative particularly since he won't endorse the non-aggression doctrine but yeah he's changed about a number of issues. I think when you move out of party and hob-nob with a new crowd, their ideas start to rub off on you. Call it osmosis. But that has also happened to me.

whoman69
07-06-2008, 01:14 PM
When the flip flop tag is thrown because the candidate used the word refine instead of focus the tag becomes superflous. Its thrown out there because its effective and hard to ditch.

The media has been portrayed as a liberal media. If that were the case then the flip flopping tag on Obama would have never come to light. The media is interested in whatever sells. Obama winning by 10% and pulling off an electoral landslide is not news. The media needs this to be a close election so they can have something to report on.