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BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 07:05 AM
Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 07:06 AM
Cardinals article about the future prospects from the St. Louis Post Dispatch.


Cardinals manager Tony La Russa never wants to talk about 2009. Neither does general manager John Mozeliak.

Both men are convinced the ’08 team could contend. So far, the Cards are doing just that, despite suffering myriad injuries.

They are 11 games over .500 and they have staying power.

But projections for the ’09 season ARE intriguing. The Cards will have more payroll flexibility next year, due to several expiring contracts. With several key prospects developing at once, Mozeliak will move into an enviable position.

The Cards’ success with rookies this season makes the forecast for next season even better. Circumstances are forcing the team to test a lot of kids.

Many have arrived ahead of schedule and most are holding up just fine. They are showcasing their potential to the Cards and the rest of the major leagues.

Infielder Brendan Ryan, Sunday’s hero, is a potential starter at second base or shortstop. Righthanded power hitter Joe Mather looks capable of balancing a left-centric outfield. Rule 5 addition Brian Barton has shown he can excel as a No. 4 or No. 5 outfielder.

Kyle McClellan, Chris Perez and Mark Worrell have bolstered the bullpen. It’s too early to assess pitcher Mitchell Boggs, but he ascended quickly through the Cards organization after arriving from the college ranks.

The Next One, outfielder Colby Rasmus, is finally hitting in Memphis. Good-hitting catcher Bryan Anderson is making great defensive strides. Both could become factors next year.

When we chatted Friday with Memphis manager Chris Maloney on KFNS, he raved about the potential of third baseman David Freese. The kid has big league defensive potential and a nice bat; when he becomes more selective at the plate, he will move to the front burner.

Maloney also raved about the professionalism of veterans Anthony Reyes and Chris Duncan. Reyes appears to be auditioning for other clubs looking for pitching help. Duncan, who is trying to relocate his power stroke, suffered a setback when he crashed into an outfield wall.

But both players remain assets. As a result, Mozeliak has options.

So now the look forward is encouraging:

* Juan Encarnacion’s $6.5 million salary will be off the books after this season. Kyle Lohse ($4.25 million), Braden Looper ($5.5 million) and Jason Isringhausen ($8 million) will become free agents. Mark Mulder ($6.5 million) could also exit the payroll, unless the Cards exercise their $11 million option.

Our take: Mozeliak ought to use that flexibility to give Lohse a long-term extension. His performance in this pitching-friendly environment has been a revelation. He has become the second coming of Woody Williams.

If Izzy rallies this summer, I’d give him one more year at reasonable money – but no guarantee that he would close ahead of the hard-throwing Perez.

* Young veterans Ryan Ludwick, Rick Ankiel and Skip Schumaker have collectively exceeded expectations in the outfield. Ankiel only hits in streaks, but his defensive play has been consistently brilliant. Ludwick and Schumaker are making huge professional strides.


* The Cards can reasonably expect to have Chris Carpenter back in his No. 1 starter role next season. He, Adam Wainwright and Joel Pineiro are under contract. Mozeliak can pick up his contract option on Matt Clement, IF he finally comes off the disabled list and pitches like his old self.

That is an enormous if. Hence the need to explore an extension for Lohse. And if Todd Wellemeyer holds up this summer, he will merit long-term investment as well. Power arms are hard to find.

* As Derrick Goold reports, the Cards consider Kyle McClellan a prime candidate for the ’09 rotation. He could take the same step Wainwright took. Boggs was a reliever in college, so he could move to bullpen next season in a Brad Thompson-like role.


* Mozeliak will have to deal some of his pitching and outfield surplus at some point. Reyes and Duncan, currently unable to hold jobs in St. Louis, are logical targets. So is Thompson, another of the hurlers currently on the rehab trail.

If all the Cards pitchers ever become healthy at the same time -– a long shot, we know -- Mozeliak will have to move a hurler or two in his current rotation just to make the roster work. That will make him popular among his peers.

Rather than having to deal young players to fill short-term needs this summer, Mozeliak could take the opposite approach. He could move a few veteran hurlers for longer-term assets.

* By signing Cesar Izturis to a one-year deal, Mozeliak left his options open at shortstop. Better offensive players like Rafael Furcal and Orlando Cabrera could become free agents after the season. Perhaps one could be there for the right price.

Mozeliak could opt to keep Izturis for his glove -– or he could hand the job to Ryan, who will get additional starts at that position this summer. One thing that won’t happen: Mozeliak dramatically overspending for a free-agent shortstop out of necessity.


The pieces are lining up nicely. This season is stressful for Mozeliak, La Russa and the rest of the baseball operation.

But this season is also illuminating, since so many youngsters are accelerating their growth in the middle of a playoff race. The better this group does the summer, the more excited Cardinal Nation can become about 2009.

CoMoChief
07-07-2008, 08:26 AM
This is a ****in completely retarded idea.

Go to a Cardinals forum.

smittysbar
07-07-2008, 08:33 AM
This is a ****in completely retarded idea.

Go to a Cardinals forum.

Your just a hater. :p

StcChief
07-07-2008, 08:45 AM
Good idea, there are enough Cardinal fans here...

I'd love to see Cards move Duncan. the guy's a liability in OF and his bat is inconsistent.

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 08:49 AM
Good idea, there are enough Cardinal fans here...

I'd love to see Cards move Duncan. the guy's a liability in OF and his bat is inconsistent.
I think that has to be the idea. The dude plays 1B. We have a pretty good one already and hopefully till he retires so we are set there.

We have plenty of outfielders and outfield prospects also. We need some pitching. Bullpen help. A Duncan trade should be able to get us some help in that area.

smittysbar
07-07-2008, 09:22 AM
Anyone one know any news on Carpenter?

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 09:29 AM
Cardinals enter into the Dominican Republic talent pool. Give $1.2 million SB to a 16 year old.

----------------------------------- -----------------------------------
For a long time, maybe forever, the buscones were considered adversaries or parasites, entities to be mistrusted and, if possible, circumvented.
Until a mid-January night at a downtown Santo Domingo restaurant, the Cardinals' relationship with Dominican player agents had remained at arm's length.

The Cardinals officially opened their Dominican academy in a rural setting about 40 minutes north of town in November 2005, but they had retained the reputation of fringe players in the market.

Bonuses remained modest as the Cardinals stocked their new Rookie League teams with Latin players, few of them signed for more than $100,000. Quantity, according to a subtle message, meant more than quality.That changed when newly installed general manager John Mozeliak, assistant general manager John Abbamondi and vice president of scouting and player development Jeff Luhnow took turns speaking to the assemblage of buscones. Cocktails and dinner were served. Luhnow addressed the group in fluent Spanish. Eventually, several agents took the floor to express their appreciation.The Cardinals let it be known they were serious players on the island for the first time in a generation.

Last week they delivered, signing six players from the Dominican Republic and Venezuela for more than $3 million combined. Dominican third baseman Roberto De La Cruz, 16, received more than $1.2 million. Two others, Dominican pitcher Santo Franco and Venezuelan shortstop Cesar Valera, signed for more than $500,000.Five years after landing in the Dominican without their own academy and with few local connections, the Cardinals entered the industry's upper class of Caribbean signings.

Since last season the club has hired Moises Rodriguez as director of international operations and Juan Mercado as Latin American scouting supervisor. Mercado lives in the Dominican. Without either, Luhnow acknowledges, the organization's dive into the deep end of the Caribbean talent pool would be impossible.A team unable to sign and develop a player off the island since pitcher Jose Jimenez (signed in 1991) now has a goal of eventually developing two players for the major league team each year.

The Cardinals now routinely dispatch their roving minor-league instructors to their Dominican and Venezuelan facilities. No longer are Municipio de La Victoria, D.R., and Valencia, Venezuela, treated as rumors."We were there to send a strong signal," Luhnow said, recalling the January dinner. "We told them we were serious. The fact we were there, letting them know we were ready to partner with them instead of considering them adversaries, meant a lot."

Last week meant even more.Tuesday's announced signing of the Cardinals' first-round draftee, Arizona State third baseman Brett Wallace, merited headlines. However, the franchise's international harvest represented a tectonic shift for an organization that until five years ago was one of only two major league organizations not represented in the Dominican Republic.

"The way I look at it, we have to be there," said Luhnow, who was given oversight of the team's international mission shortly after arriving with the franchise after the 2003 season. "We're not in a position where we can rely on premium draft picks every season because we don't have them. So we have to look elsewhere for talent — top talent."

The Cardinals previously had never given more than $450,000 to a Latin prospect. The Oakland A's recently signed 6-foot-7 righthanded pitcher Michel Inoa for a reported $4.25 million. The Padres signed three players for at least $1 million. The Cardinals, by comparison, signed Wallace, no less than one of the top three college hitters available in the draft, for $1.85 million."Having an impact there is our mission," Mozeliak said. "I think we've shown in recent years, and particularly last week, how our commitment there has grown."

The Cardinals now see themselves in the fray with aggressive clubs such as Oakland, the Milwaukee Brewers, Washington Nationals and San Diego Padres. Last week's signings reinforce the January message that the club is carrying dollars, not nickels.

"It's become the equivalent of the draft in Latin America when you talk about the investment some teams have started to make in those type players," Luhnow said. "Some clubs are going to require international budgets that rival their draft budgets."Clubs are realizing they have to compete, not just by being there and hoping for development, but by competing for top talent."

Last week's flurry provided muscle to the January message. Now the club must realize a dividend from what Luhnow admits is "a gamble," investing six- and seven-figure bonuses in 16-year-olds.

"Colleges play such an important role in separating players in the United States," said
Luhnow, whose record as scouting director tilts heavily toward college talent. "We don't have that path in Latin America. You have to gamble there. There are only so many 16-year-olds every year

StcChief
07-07-2008, 09:43 AM
nice read BRC. Glad to see Cards under their new GM moving to compete.

PGM
07-07-2008, 11:09 AM
This is a ****in completely retarded idea.

Go to a Cardinals forum.

:spock: Just ignore the damn thread if you don't like it.

PGM
07-07-2008, 11:15 AM
Well the initial article posted is a pretty homerific piece, but a good read nonetheless....Duncan needs to be moved, but I doubt anyone wants him at this point....The Latin thing is interesting. Kind of skeptical about throwing money like that at 16 year olds, but oh well these organizations have plenty of money to burn. Could pay off huge....Enough cards fans here for this to be a very good idea.

SPATCH
07-07-2008, 11:18 AM
doesn't there have to be at least four asterisks in the thread title for it to be "official"??

CoMoChief
07-07-2008, 11:29 AM
:spock: Just ignore the damn thread if you don't like it.

Well **** then lets all start a Broncos thread.

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 11:30 AM
Anyone one know any news on Carpenter?
Some blurbs I found......

Carpenter to have a sim game Monday: Cardinals SP Chris Carpenter (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/7495), recovering from Tommy John surgery, threw a bullpen session Friday, according to MLB.com. He'll throw a simulated game on Monday. "I talked to him," manager Tony La Russa said. "He said he felt all right and he felt good."
(Updated 07/04/2008).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Carpenter won't begin a rehabilitation assignment before early August and might even find himself in the bullpen once he does return to St. Louis. A move to the bullpen would definitely warp Carpenter's Fantasy value as most owners had hoped they'd stashed a second-half sleeper. Continue to stash him in larger Fantasy leagues and hope for the best.
(Updated 07/04/2008).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good news and bad news, I suppose, for Cardinals' fans. Chris Carpenter (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/ChrisCarpenter/) made his first rehab start yesterday. That's the good news. The bad news? It didn't go terribly well (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070703&content_id=2065145&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl). He gave up five runs (three earned) in 1 and 1/3 innings for Class A Palm Beach in his first start in three months. I suppose it could've been worse though. More from the team site:
The good news was that of 32 pitches, Carpenter threw 24 strikes. His fastball was clocked at 88-92 mph, and he mixed in offspeed stuff as well. Carpenter struck out two and didn't issue a walk. Of the five hits against him, four were singles and one was a double. Each inning began with an error by shortstop Dan Nelson.
You do have to take the earned runs part with a grain of salt. Just like spring training, Carp is likely working more on getting his mechanics back and testing out that elbow than he's working on getting hitters out. If the velocity is where it should be and he's throwing offspeed pitches without much pain, that's a much more encouraging sign than the three runs is discouraging.

I assume his outing was so short due to a pitch count, but that's not explicitly stated anywhere. If it was cut short for another reason, that might be a bad sign. I suppose we'll learn more from how he feels after this start and future rehab outings

PGM
07-07-2008, 11:34 AM
Well **** then lets all start a Broncos thread.

Go right ahead. A good Broncos suck thread is always nice. :thumb:

PGM
07-07-2008, 11:35 AM
Any trade rumors heating up yet?

POND_OF_RED
07-07-2008, 11:38 AM
With the addition of Sabathia to the Brewers I have a feeling you guys will get sick of talking about the Cardinals by mid August.

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 11:42 AM
Well the initial article posted is a pretty homerific piece, but a good read nonetheless....Duncan needs to be moved, but I doubt anyone wants him at this point....The Latin thing is interesting. Kind of skeptical about throwing money like that at 16 year olds, but oh well these organizations have plenty of money to burn. Could pay off huge....Enough cards fans here for this to be a very good idea.
Look at what the A's are doing.

Ah, the A's — another club that uses young talent as an all-purpose weapon. Over the next month, the A's could trade Harden or right-hander Joe Blanton for prospects, or trade prospects for a veteran hitter such as Pirates left fielder <ST1:p<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Jason</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Bay</st1:PlaceName></ST1:place<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Their most recent move, signing 16-year-old Dominican right-hander Michael Inoa for a $4.25 million bonus, evoked grumbling within in the industry — "Moneyball" detailed the A's previous disdain for giving high-school pitchers large bonuses. But the way the A's now see it, Inoa cost about as much a middle-inning reliever does in free agency — and his ultimate value to the team could be much greater.<O:p</O:p

CoMoChief
07-07-2008, 11:46 AM
Go right ahead. A good Broncos suck thread is always nice. :thumb:

Douchebag

PGM
07-07-2008, 11:49 AM
Look at what the A's are doing.

Ah, the A's — another club that uses young talent as an all-purpose weapon. Over the next month, the A's could trade Harden or right-hander Joe Blanton for prospects, or trade prospects for a veteran hitter such as Pirates left fielder <ST1:p<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Jason</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Bay</st1:PlaceName></ST1:place<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Their most recent move, signing 16-year-old Dominican right-hander Michael Inoa for a $4.25 million bonus, evoked grumbling within in the industry — "Moneyball" detailed the A's previous disdain for giving high-school pitchers large bonuses. But the way the A's now see it, Inoa cost about as much a middle-inning reliever does in free agency — and his ultimate value to the team could be much greater.<O:p</O:p

Yeah, I saw that before about them signing the kid. First time I saw the reason for it though. The explanation they give makes sense. The A's will NEVER have a fan base if they keep trading thier players away once they become good.

PGM
07-07-2008, 11:49 AM
Douchebag

:crybaby:

StcChief
07-07-2008, 11:54 AM
With the addition of Sabathia to the Brewers I have a feeling you guys will get sick of talking about the Cardinals by mid August.we will see as the Brewers/Cards overtake the Cubbies by Sept.

PGM
07-07-2008, 11:59 AM
we will see as the Brewers/Cards overtake the Cubbies by Sept.

We still have Wainwright and Carp's return to look forward to as well.

StcChief
07-07-2008, 12:04 PM
We still have Wainwright and Carp's return to look forward to as well.with all the injuries.... June could have been a complete diaster but team/players step up.

Jewish Rabbi
07-07-2008, 01:07 PM
We are so overloaded on prospects right now it's not even funny...Mather and Rasmus in the outfield, Anderson catching, pitcher Jess Todd in AA is arguably ready to pitch in the bigs right now...Jared Hoffpauir is a good 2B option in the future, as is Freese at third...I don't know where we're gonna put all these guys. The Cards can and are competing this year, Mozeliak needs to go ahead and make a move for a reliever. You'd like another power bat in the lineup, but who would you take out? Our outfield is already set, I don't wanna see Ludwick, Ankiel, or Schumaker in a platoon role. Glaus and Pujols are, well, Glaus and Pujols. Really, that leaves your only options at second base and shortstop, as Yadi isn't going anywhere. We'd have to make a blockbuster deal to get a power-hitting middle infield, but at this point, isn't Bryan Anderson expendable? Yadi doesn't put up the power numbers Anderson would, but he is an underrated hitter, the hardest in the majors to strike out.

Frazod
07-07-2008, 01:11 PM
With the addition of Sabathia to the Brewers I have a feeling you guys will get sick of talking about the Cardinals by mid August.

There's that 100 Years Of Nothing Arrogance again. :spock:

You might well be sick of talking about baseball by mid August as well. And God knows you'll have nothing to talk about in November.

Stinger
07-07-2008, 01:30 PM
There's that 100 Years Of Nothing Arrogance again. :spock:

You might well be sick of talking about baseball by mid August as well. And God knows you'll have nothing to talk about in November.


LMAO LMAO LMAO

Ouch

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 01:32 PM
We are so overloaded on prospects right now it's not even funny...Mather and Rasmus in the outfield, Anderson catching, pitcher Jess Todd in AA is arguably ready to pitch in the bigs right now...Jared Hoffpauir is a good 2B option in the future, as is Freese at third...I don't know where we're gonna put all these guys. The Cards can and are competing this year, Mozeliak needs to go ahead and make a move for a reliever. You'd like another power bat in the lineup, but who would you take out? Our outfield is already set, I don't wanna see Ludwick, Ankiel, or Schumaker in a platoon role. Glaus and Pujols are, well, Glaus and Pujols. Really, that leaves your only options at second base and shortstop, as Yadi isn't going anywhere. We'd have to make a blockbuster deal to get a power-hitting middle infield, but at this point, isn't Bryan Anderson expendable? Yadi doesn't put up the power numbers Anderson would, but he is an underrated hitter, the hardest in the majors to strike out.
Yadi isn’t going no where. He’s the 2nd most popular player in St. Louis. He’s young, calls a good game and has his average over .300 this season. We need bullpen help badly but not that bad.I agree that middle infield would seem to be the spots that we could use some help longterm.

We have a surplus of outfielders to dangle as trade bait but I don’t know if you can get anything for them. Ankiel, Schumaker and Ludwick have stepped it up this year but wouldn’t clubs go…..yeay, yeah they are good this year but what if they are one year wonders? Seems like their trade value isn’t as high as their upside/downside. But trading prospects for established stars is chic now in MLB so who knows?

No way do I see us trading Rasmus even for A-Rod to put at SS. Anderson is definitely expendable and maybe we have to bite the bullet and trade Mather to get a front line SS or 2B long term solution.

StcChief
07-07-2008, 01:46 PM
There's that 100 Years Of Nothing Arrogance again. :spock:

You might well be sick of talking about baseball by mid August as well. And God knows you'll have nothing to talk about in November.ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Cubs and sea_of_dead going down in flames:p

POND_OF_RED
07-07-2008, 01:49 PM
There's that 100 Years Of Nothing Arrogance again. :spock:

You might well be sick of talking about baseball by mid August as well. And God knows you'll have nothing to talk about in November.

That's my fault I thought this thread was about your current team. Didn't realize it was just to talk about past teams. In that case I'll change my post to "With the addition of Sabathia to the Brewers I have a feeling you guys will only have teams of the past to boost your morale by mid August." Although I guess you've been resorting to that since the start of the season.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-07-2008, 02:52 PM
Brian Anderson really doesn't have a place here. They'll have him take LaRue's spot next year to see what he can do on the ML level, but Yadi is an incredibly valuable player for the team. He's definitely someone who can fetch a decent amount in a trade, but his defense is a bit shoddy (too many PBs), and he doesn't really have much more power than Yadi, although he hits for a tremendous average. In a lot of ways, he'd be a poor man's Joe Mauer.

Duncan and Reyes should have been moved after '06 when they still had legit trade value. Dave Duncan hates Reyes with a passion because he doesn't like to throw the 2-seamer, and C. Dunk is a mediocre DH. That's not to say that a team like the Rays couldn't use a left handed power bat like Duncan, because they definitely could, but he has no place here.

I'm really hoping that we can deal Ludwick before the other shoe drops. He's proved to be a solid player, but I don't think he's a good piece on a contending club. Ankiel is our best defensive outfielder and he does a great job against off speed pitching and early in the game (pre 7th), but he has horrible splits against fastballs and in high leverage situations. Skip is one of those grit guys that LaRussa likes, but I can't really say I trust him in a big spot. Barton is going to be a career 4th/5th OF, but we can't send him down this year b/c he's a Rule 5, which really sucks because Colby has been tearing the cover off the ball the last month.

Rasmus is the real deal. He'll still strikeout too much but he has plus plus power and good range in the outfield. He'll probably hit 260-280 and average around 30-35 bombs a year. He's a great guy to have in front of Pujols. I wouldn't even move him for Matt Holliday.

I don't know what to think of Mather, as he has raked AAA pitching but hasn't looked too good in his cup of coffee so far. I think he could eventually be a 20-25 HR guy, though, but he's not a leadoff hitter.

Jaime Garcia could definitely be a good starter for this team. He's been up and down in AAA, though.

Jess Todd has been the best pitcher in our entire system this year. He is absolutely decimating AA, but Clayton Mortenson is looking pretty good too.

Oh, and Brendan Ryan sucks and there is no 2B or SS depth in our system at this point. That is the one weakness, otherwise, it has tremendous depth in the OF, the corner IF, and pitching. The only other thing we don't have is a Kershaw/David Price/Gio Gonzalez type guy down there, but it doesn't surprise me given our "pitch to contact" philosophy.


We should also consider ourselves fortunate that the Brewers got rid of a prospect like Matt LaPorta for a rental of Sabathia. They may very well lose Sabathia and Sheets this year, and Fielder is due arbitration.

Trust me, we want no part of a team that has a lineup of JJ Hardy, Braun, Fielder, Mat Gamel, LaPorta, and Corey Hart.

Jewish Rabbi
07-07-2008, 02:53 PM
Yadi isn’t going no where. He’s the 2nd most popular player in St. Louis. He’s young, calls a good game and has his average over .300 this season. We need bullpen help badly but not that bad. I agree that middle infield would seem to be the spots that we could use some help longterm.

We have a surplus of outfielders to dangle as trade bait but I don’t know if you can get anything for them. Ankiel, Schumaker and Ludwick have stepped it up this year but wouldn’t clubs go…..yeay, yeah they are good this year but what if they are one year wonders? Seems like their trade value isn’t as high as their upside/downside. But trading prospects for established stars is chic now in MLB so who knows?

No way do I see us trading Rasmus even for A-Rod to put at SS. Anderson is definitely expendable and maybe we have to bite the bullet and trade Mather to get a front line SS or 2B long term solution.I'm not following your logic there...

If you're saying we shouldn't trade Anderson for a reliever, yeah, that's a no-brainer. I was suggesting Anderson for a middle infielder, although I'm not sure there's a good enough one on the market to warrant that trade right now. Anderson has no future in St. Louis though, so he's definately on the trading block.

If we can find someone stupid enough to take Duncan and/or Reyes for a quality reliever (Fuentes?), that's a deal we HAVE to make.

Jewish Rabbi
07-07-2008, 03:00 PM
Brian Anderson really doesn't have a place here. They'll have him take LaRue's spot next year to see what he can do on the ML level, but Yadi is an incredibly valuable player for the team. He's definitely someone who can fetch a decent amount in a trade, but his defense is a bit shoddy (too many PBs), and he doesn't really have much more power than Yadi, although he hits for a tremendous average. In a lot of ways, he'd be a poor man's Joe Mauer.

Duncan and Reyes should have been moved after '06 when they still had legit trade value. Dave Duncan hates Reyes with a passion because he doesn't like to throw the 2-seamer, and C. Dunk is a mediocre DH. That's not to say that a team like the Rays couldn't use a left handed power bat like Duncan, because they definitely could, but he has no place here.

I'm really hoping that we can deal Ludwick before the other shoe drops. He's proved to be a solid player, but I don't think he's a good piece on a contending club. Ankiel is our best defensive outfielder and he does a great job against off speed pitching and early in the game (pre 7th), but he has horrible splits against fastballs and in high leverage situations. Skip is one of those grit guys that LaRussa likes, but I can't really say I trust him in a big spot. Barton is going to be a career 4th/5th OF, but we can't send him down this year b/c he's a Rule 5, which really sucks because Colby has been tearing the cover off the ball the last month.

Rasmus is the real deal. He'll still strikeout too much but he has plus plus power and good range in the outfield. He'll probably hit 260-280 and average around 30-35 bombs a year. He's a great guy to have in front of Pujols. I wouldn't even move him for Matt Holliday.

I don't know what to think of Mather, as he has raked AAA pitching but hasn't looked too good in his cup of coffee so far. I think he could eventually be a 20-25 HR guy, though, but he's not a leadoff hitter.

Jaime Garcia could definitely be a good starter for this team. He's been up and down in AAA, though.

Jess Todd has been the best pitcher in our entire system this year. He is absolutely decimating AA, but Clayton Mortenson is looking pretty good too.

Oh, and Brendan Ryan sucks and there is no 2B or SS depth in our system at this point. That is the one weakness, otherwise, it has tremendous depth in the OF, the corner IF, and pitching. The only other thing we don't have is a Kershaw/David Price/Gio Gonzalez type guy down there, but it doesn't surprise me given our "pitch to contact" philosophy.


We should also consider ourselves fortunate that the Brewers got rid of a prospect like Matt LaPorta for a rental of Sabathia. They may very well lose Sabathia and Sheets this year, and Fielder is due arbitration.

Trust me, we want no part of a team that has a lineup of JJ Hardy, Braun, Fielder, Mat Gamel, LaPorta, and Corey Hart.
Do you even follow the Cardinals? Not only is Ludwick a solid player, he's arguably the MVP of the team this year. And why don't you trust Skip in pressure situations, just because he's hitting .390 with RISP, the highest in the majors? Ryan may not be "great" at anything, but he's another David Eckstein, getting a lot out of his talent.

OnTheWarpath58
07-07-2008, 04:28 PM
Talk here in town today of sending Anderson and Brendan Ryan to Toronto for AJ Burnett...

Also been a lot of talk about Matt Herges and Brian Fuentes of the Rockies.

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 04:31 PM
I'm not following your logic there...

If you're saying we shouldn't trade Anderson for a reliever, yeah, that's a no-brainer. I was suggesting Anderson for a middle infielder, although I'm not sure there's a good enough one on the market to warrant that trade right now. Anderson has no future in St. Louis though, so he's definately on the trading block.

If we can find someone stupid enough to take Duncan and/or Reyes for a quality reliever (Fuentes?), that's a deal we HAVE to make.
I don't think we can get a top notch middle infielder for Anderson. Not yet anyway. No one is going to take Duncan or Reyes off our hands except for throwaway players.

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 04:33 PM
Talk here in town today of sending Anderson and Brendan Ryan to Toronto for AJ Burnett...

Also been a lot of talk about Matt Herges and Brian Fuentes of the Rockies.
I'd take Burnett. I don't think Ryan is a solution and I love Yadi. Let em have Duncan too.LMAO

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 04:35 PM
Do you even follow the Cardinals? Not only is Ludwick a solid player, he's arguably the MVP of the team this year. And why don't you trust Skip in pressure situations, just because he's hitting .390 with RISP, the highest in the majors? Ryan may not be "great" at anything, but he's another David Eckstein, getting a lot out of his talent.
Of all the outfielders we have who has the highest return on value? Ramus but no way we trade a 5 tool player so who then????? How about the 30 year old Ludwick who hasn't done anything before this year? Someone has to go. The outfield is too crowded with talent and we need help elsewhere.

Coltman
07-07-2008, 04:43 PM
after all this is the CHIEFS PLANET you dummies.......

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-07-2008, 04:46 PM
Do you even follow the Cardinals? Not only is Ludwick a solid player, he's arguably the MVP of the team this year. And why don't you trust Skip in pressure situations, just because he's hitting .390 with RISP, the highest in the majors? Ryan may not be "great" at anything, but he's another David Eckstein, getting a lot out of his talent.

Hate to point this out to you, but Skip's BABIP is unusually high, and once it regresses to the mean you probably won't be as high on him. Also, he's never played for a contending team, and if you think that guys like Ludwick, Ankiel, Skip, Ryan, Miles, and Barton will just hit if you are in the playoffs because they are there, you're on crack.

Also, Ludwick has hit .250 the last month. Two hot months does not a team MVP make. We'll just forget about the guy at first who is a gold glover, has a BA 60 points higher, an OBP and OPS of over 100 points higher.

Brendan Ryan is a 4A player. That's all he'll ever be. He's a drain on both sides of the ball. He doesn't hit for power at all--38 hits and 45 TB make Raffy Belliard laugh.

I don't understand the fascination with "gritty" players like Eckstein and Miles who get a lot out of their abilities but play at replacement level. I'd rather have a guy who can actually hit--I know, crazy.

Just because they play for the Cardinals doesn't mean you have to view them with homer glasses. Although, I'm sure you're one of the people who thought we could have traded Reyes for Carl Crawford two years ago.

PGM
07-07-2008, 04:54 PM
I agree in selling high on Ludwick. They have to make room for Rasmus eventually, so either him or skip must go eventually. Since I doubt Skip has any trade value, Ludwick is the guy to move. That said, I don't think they trade him this year anyway so it's a moot point.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-07-2008, 04:54 PM
Trading for middle relief is retarded, IMO. Mortgaging our farm system for a FA to be like Fuentes or anyone for that matter, is stupid. They command far more than they are worth, and for how well this team has played its Pythagorean Record is barely over .500. This team was not built to contend this year--live with it. Wellemeyer's elbow is hanging on by a thread, Wagonmaker is weeks away, Pineiro is blah, Looper is Looper, and Lohse is careering it. We'll be much better in '09 if we don't make the stupid moves like the Brewers are on rental players.

September will be really interesting, because we'll probably get to see Todd, Mortenson, Garcia, and Rasmus all get a taste of the bigs. But we aren't going to win with this group, so just enjoy the ride.

PGM
07-07-2008, 04:56 PM
Talk here in town today of sending Anderson and Brendan Ryan to Toronto for AJ Burnett...

Also been a lot of talk about Matt Herges and Brian Fuentes of the Rockies.

Well "Wild Thing" Burnett would be intriguing if you can get him for that package. The guy has just been so inconsistent this year and heck for his career for that matter. Will be unhittable, but has a bunch of stinker games. Maybe a change of scenery would help though.

PGM
07-07-2008, 04:57 PM
Trading for middle relief is retarded, IMO. Mortgaging our farm system for a FA to be like Fuentes or anyone for that matter, is stupid. They command far more than they are worth, and for how well this team has played its Pythagorean Record is barely over .500. This team was not built to contend this year--live with it. Wellemeyer's elbow is hanging on by a thread, Wagonmaker is weeks away, Pineiro is blah, Looper is Looper, and Lohse is careering it. We'll be much better in '09 if we don't make the stupid moves like the Brewers are on rental players.

September will be really interesting, because we'll probably get to see Todd, Mortenson, Garcia, and Rasmus all get a taste of the bigs. But we aren't going to win with this group, so just enjoy the ride.

Agreed...would be pretty goofy to give up a prospect for some one year rental vet reliever.

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 05:00 PM
Trading for middle relief is retarded, IMO. Mortgaging our farm system for a FA to be like Fuentes or anyone for that matter, is stupid. They command far more than they are worth, and for how well this team has played its Pythagorean Record is barely over .500. This team was not built to contend this year--live with it. Wellemeyer's elbow is hanging on by a thread, Wagonmaker is weeks away, Pineiro is blah, Looper is Looper, and Lohse is careering it. We'll be much better in '09 if we don't make the stupid moves like the Brewers are on rental players.

September will be really interesting, because we'll probably get to see Todd, Mortenson, Garcia, and Rasmus all get a taste of the bigs. But we aren't going to win with this group, so just enjoy the ride.
Who's talking about making moves for rental players? We have a crowded outfield and need pitching and middle infielders. It's July in MLB, thats when most major trades happen. I'm not thinking this year at all. If we make the playoffs , cool but not at the expense of giving up prospects for rental players. Fuk that.

But I do like the Burnett trade if it happened as per the scenerio above. Maybe Duncan could work his magic and make him more consistent?

Marco Polo
07-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Talk here in town today of sending Anderson and Brendan Ryan to Toronto for AJ Burnett...

Also been a lot of talk about Matt Herges and Brian Fuentes of the Rockies.

That would be an interesting trade; I think we have enough in the farm to get Burnett without Anderson. If you don't mind me asking, where did you hear this from? I always love a good Cardinals rumor.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-07-2008, 05:05 PM
Who's talking about making moves for rental players? We have a crowded outfield and need pitching and middle infielders. It's July in MLB, thats when most major trades happen. I'm not thinking this year at all. If we make the playoffs , cool but not at the expense of giving up prospects for rental players. Fuk that.

But I do like the Burnett trade if it happened as per the scenerio above. Maybe Duncan could work his magic and make him more consistent?

The Cards have been rumored in scenarios involving Fuentes (FA to be), Ron Mahay, and others. Honestly, I think Luhnow would have an anuerysm if Moz pulled the trigger on giving up anything for those pieces of trailer park trash.

I don't like the Burnett trade unless Toronto takes the bulk of his salary. 12 mil per is ridiculous for a guy with an ERA of 5. He can opt out after this year, which may make him another rental player, more or less.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-07-2008, 05:05 PM
That would be an interesting trade; I think we have enough in the farm to get Burnett without Anderson. If you don't mind me asking, where did you hear this from? I always love a good Cardinals rumor.

It's all over vivaelbirdos.com or futureredbirds.

PGM
07-07-2008, 05:06 PM
after all this is the CHIEFS PLANET you dummies.......

:whackit:

BigRedChief
07-07-2008, 05:11 PM
The Cards have been rumored in scenarios involving Fuentes (FA to be), Ron Mahay, and others. Honestly, I think Luhnow would have an anuerysm if Moz pulled the trigger on giving up anything for those pieces of trailer park trash.

I don't like the Burnett trade unless Toronto takes the bulk of his salary. 12 mil per is ridiculous for a guy with an ERA of 5. He can opt out after this year, which may make him another rental player, more or less.
Duncan has did wonders with a helluva lot less talent. If Duncan says he can do something with a pitcher you go get the guy. Now....I don't know what he thinks of Burnett but just saying........And it would have to be a sign and deal trade. No rental chit. Burnett can't do better than St. Louis. He should consider himself lucky to be traded to us.

PGM
07-07-2008, 05:16 PM
Duncan has did wonders with a helluva lot less talent. If Duncan says he can do something with a pitcher you go get the guy. Now....I don't know what he thinks of Burnett but just saying........And it would have to be a sign and deal trade. No rental chit. Burnett can't do better than St. Louis. He should consider himself lucky to be traded to us.

You mean he wouldn't rather go to the championship powerhouse Cubbies?

Jewish Rabbi
07-07-2008, 05:39 PM
There is no reason we should acquire Burnett at any cost. Just another Kip Wells waiting to happen IMO. And I'm not saying give up Anderson for crap, or a rental player, but he IS going to have to be moved sometime, so why not at least test the market and see if we can get someone good right now?

BigRedChief
07-08-2008, 06:43 AM
WAINWRIGHT UPDATE

The ruptured ligament in Cardinal pitcher Adam Wainwright's middle finger has healed enough to begin a throwing program this week, team doctors told the righthander on Monday.

Wainwright will start a light throwing program — teamspeak for playing catch — on Wednesday and could advance to more aggressive workouts when the team returns from the All-Star break.

"The purpose of the throwing program is to strengthen the pulley (the ligament) because it's at a point where we can do that without ripping it," Wainwright said. "I have to start with some light throws, and then we'll get a feel for the results. Don't want to stress it too much at first. So no spinning the ball. Just playing catch."
<SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript><!-- // beginDisplayAds("Frame1","","");// --></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.1 src="http://OAS-Central.RealMedia.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_jx.ads/www.stltoday.com/sports/cards/1429773249@Frame1" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

Wainwright has been out for a month with the rupture, which he first felt when snapping off a curveball in Houston on June 7. The sheath that holds the finger's tendon to the bone is called a pulley, and Wainwright strained the ligament but did not damage it enough to need surgery. It is an injury common among rock climbers, but several pitchers have had it happen when throwing a breaking pitch.

The Cardinals righthander, who is 6-3 this season with a 3.14 ERA, had an MRI taken of the finger Monday. He met with team medical officials that afternoon to hear what general manager John Mozeliak called "very encouraging news" and map out a weeklong program.

When the team returns from the All-Star break for a workout a week from Wednesday, Wainwright hopes to begin long-tossing.

"We have to see how my finger reacts," Wainwright said. "I want to pitch tomorrow, but I know that's not the wise thing to do. ... This is something I've been told you can come back but still feel for up to a year. Like a bad ankle sprain, where you can play after six weeks, but the inflammation is there for 12. Each pitcher is different. But it's something I'm going to have to continue to take care of."

CARPENTER THROWS

Chris Carpenter threw a short simulated game Monday, his second competitive appearance in such conditions since elbow tenderness slowed his return from surgery. Carpenter threw around 60 pitches at the Cardinals' training complex in Jupiter, Fla. Mozeliak called the report of Carpenter's outing "glowing" while saying, "His intensity was way up."

The righthander has not appeared in the majors since opening night 2007, and he remains weeks away from a return. Carpenter will increase his pitch count toward 80 or 90 as he nears a rehab assignment, which could be by the end of this month.

CLEMENT IS OPTIONED

Matt Clement cleared waivers Monday morning, and the Cardinals immediately optioned him to Class AAA Memphis. Clement, whom the Cardinals signed to a one-year deal this past winter, will continue his prolonged attempt to return to the majors as a reliever.

An All-Star in 2005, Clement missed all of 2007 because of extensive surgery needed to repair his right shoulder. Since it became clear in spring training that his arm was not yet, as pitching coach Dave Duncan described it, in condition to compete, Clement has improved his arm strength and sought to regain velocity.

He was inconsistent in his rehab starts but did well after a shift to the bullpen. Clement, 33, has not allowed a run in four relief innings for Memphis. He reported there Monday, and he remains on the 40-man roster.

BigRedChief
07-08-2008, 06:46 AM
From a poster on a Cardinals board. Pretty good for an amatuer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my extremely amateur evaluation, and top 10 list at the mid way point of this season.

1. Colby Rasmus- After shoving his way to the top 10 of nearly every prospect ranking with his 29 HR performance in the Texas League last year, Colby came into spring training with an outside shot of making the big club. He performed very well, but no other OFs struggled enough to open the door for him. He was sent to Memphis to start the season, where he struggled mightily. Lately though, Colby has been back to his old tricks posting a .976 OPS for the month of June. His tools grade out as above average to plus-plus across the board. He's got the highest ceiling of any prospect in our system, and has the results to match those tools. Colby is still the top dog here, and is probably ready as soon as an everday gig opens up in St Louis.

2. Bryan Anderson- Bryan also raised his prospect status with a strong showing in the Texas League last year. He managed to hit very well, despite being one of the youngest players in the league. The two things that stopped him from being an elite prospect last year, defense and power, are still question marks this year. He worked with Matheny in the offseason and has improved his technique. He's also been very hard to steal on this year, throwing out a great % of runners. As for the bat, he quickly proved that a repeat of the Texas League was too easy for him by posting a .937 OPS in 80 AB's. He is still only 21, and hitting .330 at AAA with a .862 OPS. His futurre may be with another organization, but he's a great prospect none the less.

3. Jaime Garcia- Like the previous two, Garcia was also dominate in the Texas League last year at a young age. He too found a repeat of that league too easy (posting a 2.06 ERA in 35 innings while striking out 41). He earned a promotion to Memphis where he pitched very well, he's hit a bit of a rough patch in the past month or so. Still though, this is a 22 year old lefthander that has been dominant at times in AAA and at the very least hasn't looked overmatched at any time. He's not quite ready, but he's pretty close and has the best ceiling of any pitching prospect in our system. Lefties with the ability to get Ks and GBs by the truckload don't grow on trees.

4. Chris Perez- Another prospect who dominated the Texas League last year, Perez earned a late season promotion to Memphis where he struggled with his control. Dominant at Memphis to begin the year (22K in 17IP with 9BB), Perez earned a promotion to the big club. The control issue has once again come up, and that may be what keeps him from being a dominant closer. That being said, he is striking out more than 1 man per inning pitched, and has been absolutely dominant in a few appearances. Featuring two plus pitches, he should be a stable of the backend of our bullpen for the next few years.

5. Jess Todd- Talk about a riser. After a strong debut at low A Batavia last year, Todd started this year at high A Palm Beach which quickly proved to be little challenge for the right hander. In 27 IP, he struck out 35, walked only 7, and gave up only 5 ER. That was good enough to earn him a promotion to AA where the beat went on. His Ks are down a bit there, but he still isn't walking anyone or giving up any runs. Only 13 of both in nearly 70 IP. He's been named to the Futures Game, Texas League All Star Team, and Team USA. He was also mentioned by Mozeliak as a guy they were keeping an eye on for call up to the big club. Not bad for a guy who was drafted just last year, and pegged by many as a future middle reliever.

6. Daryl Jones- Daryl nearly fell off the prospect map altogether with non productive injury plagued years in recent past. He's back in a big way. The lefthanded OF, pegged as the best athlete in the system by BA, has finally turned those tools into results. He's still only 21, and is tearing it up at Palm Beach. He's got a slash line of .320/.399/.463. He's doing all of this in one of the more extreme pitcher's parks in all of the minor leagues as well. He also has 16 SB in 19 tries. There have been Carl Crawford comparisons in the past. Looks like he is putting it together now, and should be in line for a promotion to Springfield before the end of this year.

7. Brett Wallace- Not much to go on as far as results go for the '08 first round pick. For what it's worth, he is hitting .235/.382/.471 so far at Quad Cities. He's supposedly played well at 3B, and the Cardinals would love if he could stick there although that remains up in the air. Brett's calling card is his bat. He won the Pac 10 triple crown in back to back seasons, and was a star on the wood bat circuit. His bat should keep him from being in the minors too long, and if he can't stick at 3B he will become excellent trade bait in the mold of Matt LaPorta.

8. John Jay- Jay burst onto the scene hitting .342 for Quad Cities after being drafted out of Miami. That performance prompted some scouts to peg him as a guy that might win a batting title some day. They like his swing that much. He fell off the radar a bit last year, as he battled injuries and didn't hit too much although he did earn a promotion to Springfield mid season. This year, however, he's gained back his prospect status and then some. Not only has he continued to hit for a high average, he's also displayed more power than ever before (11HR, 28XBH) and played very good CF defense. He may be another guy primed for a trade, as he has Rasmus in front of him and Jones behind him, but he has really upped his value with his performance this year.

9. Clay Mortensen- Clay started the season at AA this year, after really impressing in Spring Training. Duncan really liked the lanky righthander's sinker, calling it one of the best he's seen. The results haven't been as good as last year, where he was able to rack up both Ks and GBs by the truckload, but he did earn a promotion to AAA where he has held his own. Fairly impressive, for a guy who was drafted just last year. He's been walking far too many batters, which has been a problem for him in the past. He has been able to pitch out of alot of jams, and has posted a 2.70 ERA in 37 AAA innings.

10. Pete Kozma- Pete makes the end of my list in part because he was a first round pick, but mostly because I trust Lunhow. Didn't do too much to impress last year after being drafted. He did start off very well this year, but he's cooled off and the power he displayed has all but vanished. Still though, he's 19. He's going to take quite awhile to develop. The tools and baseball savvy, that made him a first round pick didn't go away. He still projects to be an above average defender at the most important position on the field, and an above average hitter for that position. I was tempted to put Nico Vasquez here, but the lack of track record and where Kozma was drafted was the trump card.

Chief Henry
07-08-2008, 08:03 AM
From a poster on a Cardinals board. Pretty good for an amatuer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my extremely amateur evaluation, and top 10 list at the mid way point of this season.

1. Colby Rasmus- After shoving his way to the top 10 of nearly every prospect ranking with his 29 HR performance in the Texas League last year, Colby came into spring training with an outside shot of making the big club. He performed very well, but no other OFs struggled enough to open the door for him. He was sent to Memphis to start the season, where he struggled mightily. Lately though, Colby has been back to his old tricks posting a .976 OPS for the month of June. His tools grade out as above average to plus-plus across the board. He's got the highest ceiling of any prospect in our system, and has the results to match those tools. Colby is still the top dog here, and is probably ready as soon as an everday gig opens up in St Louis.

2. Bryan Anderson- Bryan also raised his prospect status with a strong showing in the Texas League last year. He managed to hit very well, despite being one of the youngest players in the league. The two things that stopped him from being an elite prospect last year, defense and power, are still question marks this year. He worked with Matheny in the offseason and has improved his technique. He's also been very hard to steal on this year, throwing out a great % of runners. As for the bat, he quickly proved that a repeat of the Texas League was too easy for him by posting a .937 OPS in 80 AB's. He is still only 21, and hitting .330 at AAA with a .862 OPS. His futurre may be with another organization, but he's a great prospect none the less.

3. Jaime Garcia- Like the previous two, Garcia was also dominate in the Texas League last year at a young age. He too found a repeat of that league too easy (posting a 2.06 ERA in 35 innings while striking out 41). He earned a promotion to Memphis where he pitched very well, he's hit a bit of a rough patch in the past month or so. Still though, this is a 22 year old lefthander that has been dominant at times in AAA and at the very least hasn't looked overmatched at any time. He's not quite ready, but he's pretty close and has the best ceiling of any pitching prospect in our system. Lefties with the ability to get Ks and GBs by the truckload don't grow on trees.

4. Chris Perez- Another prospect who dominated the Texas League last year, Perez earned a late season promotion to Memphis where he struggled with his control. Dominant at Memphis to begin the year (22K in 17IP with 9BB), Perez earned a promotion to the big club. The control issue has once again come up, and that may be what keeps him from being a dominant closer. That being said, he is striking out more than 1 man per inning pitched, and has been absolutely dominant in a few appearances. Featuring two plus pitches, he should be a stable of the backend of our bullpen for the next few years.

5. Jess Todd- Talk about a riser. After a strong debut at low A Batavia last year, Todd started this year at high A Palm Beach which quickly proved to be little challenge for the right hander. In 27 IP, he struck out 35, walked only 7, and gave up only 5 ER. That was good enough to earn him a promotion to AA where the beat went on. His Ks are down a bit there, but he still isn't walking anyone or giving up any runs. Only 13 of both in nearly 70 IP. He's been named to the Futures Game, Texas League All Star Team, and Team USA. He was also mentioned by Mozeliak as a guy they were keeping an eye on for call up to the big club. Not bad for a guy who was drafted just last year, and pegged by many as a future middle reliever.

6. Daryl Jones- Daryl nearly fell off the prospect map altogether with non productive injury plagued years in recent past. He's back in a big way. The lefthanded OF, pegged as the best athlete in the system by BA, has finally turned those tools into results. He's still only 21, and is tearing it up at Palm Beach. He's got a slash line of .320/.399/.463. He's doing all of this in one of the more extreme pitcher's parks in all of the minor leagues as well. He also has 16 SB in 19 tries. There have been Carl Crawford comparisons in the past. Looks like he is putting it together now, and should be in line for a promotion to Springfield before the end of this year.

7. Brett Wallace- Not much to go on as far as results go for the '08 first round pick. For what it's worth, he is hitting .235/.382/.471 so far at Quad Cities. He's supposedly played well at 3B, and the Cardinals would love if he could stick there although that remains up in the air. Brett's calling card is his bat. He won the Pac 10 triple crown in back to back seasons, and was a star on the wood bat circuit. His bat should keep him from being in the minors too long, and if he can't stick at 3B he will become excellent trade bait in the mold of Matt LaPorta.

8. John Jay- Jay burst onto the scene hitting .342 for Quad Cities after being drafted out of Miami. That performance prompted some scouts to peg him as a guy that might win a batting title some day. They like his swing that much. He fell off the radar a bit last year, as he battled injuries and didn't hit too much although he did earn a promotion to Springfield mid season. This year, however, he's gained back his prospect status and then some. Not only has he continued to hit for a high average, he's also displayed more power than ever before (11HR, 28XBH) and played very good CF defense. He may be another guy primed for a trade, as he has Rasmus in front of him and Jones behind him, but he has really upped his value with his performance this year.

9. Clay Mortensen- Clay started the season at AA this year, after really impressing in Spring Training. Duncan really liked the lanky righthander's sinker, calling it one of the best he's seen. The results haven't been as good as last year, where he was able to rack up both Ks and GBs by the truckload, but he did earn a promotion to AAA where he has held his own. Fairly impressive, for a guy who was drafted just last year. He's been walking far too many batters, which has been a problem for him in the past. He has been able to pitch out of alot of jams, and has posted a 2.70 ERA in 37 AAA innings.

10. Pete Kozma- Pete makes the end of my list in part because he was a first round pick, but mostly because I trust Lunhow. Didn't do too much to impress last year after being drafted. He did start off very well this year, but he's cooled off and the power he displayed has all but vanished. Still though, he's 19. He's going to take quite awhile to develop. The tools and baseball savvy, that made him a first round pick didn't go away. He still projects to be an above average defender at the most important position on the field, and an above average hitter for that position. I was tempted to put Nico Vasquez here, but the lack of track record and where Kozma was drafted was the trump card.

Impressive for sure. Thanks for the indepth info.

smittysbar
07-08-2008, 08:57 AM
good read

StcChief
07-08-2008, 09:41 AM
yep. nice prospects. Cards farm system has always been very good and developed alot of talent.

Chief Henry
07-08-2008, 10:17 AM
Its hard to beleave that we are one week away from the All-Star game and the Cardinals are just 3.5 games behind the Cubs. Those young Cardinals are playing hard and keeping us interested.

bango
07-08-2008, 05:56 PM
Just let me know when the Blue's or Billiken's Thread is posted on the Board. I hope that this is not a sign of an upcoming Ram's Thread.

BigRedChief
07-08-2008, 09:03 PM
Its hard to beleave that we are one week away from the All-Star game and the Cardinals are just 3.5 games behind the Cubs. Those young Cardinals are playing hard and keeping us interested.
No need to panic. This isn't the year to give up the prospects for rental players. Stay calm and ride this season out.

Brewers haven't been in the playoffs since 1982....1982:shrug: let them have their moment. Let the Cubs have some hope. Next year and 2010 we will be the big dogs again in the Central.

PGM
07-08-2008, 09:46 PM
No need to panic. This isn't the year to give up the prospects for rental players. Stay calm and ride this season out.

Brewers haven't been in the playoffs since 1982....1982:shrug: let them have their moment. Let the Cubs have some hope. Next year and 2010 we will be the big dogs again in the Central.

The Cards just won't go away. I keep waiting for them to come back to Earth, but as soon as they lose a series they bounce back. Once Albert gets on one of his super hot streaks the offense will pick up and the pitching will get thier "acquisitions" in getting Carpenter and Wainwright back.

Jewish Rabbi
07-08-2008, 09:53 PM
The Cards just won't go away. I keep waiting for them to come back to Earth, but as soon as they lose a series they bounce back. Once Albert gets on one of his super hot streaks the offense will pick up and the pitching will get thier "acquisitions" in getting Carpenter and Wainwright back.Not sure how much of a help Carp will be this year...He'll prolly just come out of the bullpen for the rest of the year, ala Matt Morris. That said, I'd love to see him get back in shape and starting by September.

PGM
07-08-2008, 09:55 PM
Not sure how much of a help Carp will be this year...He'll prolly just come out of the bullpen for the rest of the year, ala Matt Morris. That said, I'd love to see him get back in shape and starting by September.

Well it is wishfull thinking on Carpenter to be honest. They'll be lucky if he can start games by September that is for sure. We'll see.

BigRedChief
07-09-2008, 06:10 AM
The Cards just won't go away. I keep waiting for them to come back to Earth, but as soon as they lose a series they bounce back. Once Albert gets on one of his super hot streaks the offense will pick up and the pitching will get thier "acquisitions" in getting Carpenter and Wainwright back.Thats all fine and dandy as long as they don't trade away prospects for a short term solution. If its a long term solution? Thats okay. We have a log jam in the outfield. If we can clear that and get a player that will be with us for a while I say pull the trigger.

BigRedChief
07-09-2008, 07:02 AM
MLB hasn't even asked Pujols to join the home run derby
------------------------------------------------------------------

Seven-time All-Star Albert Pujols says nobody has asked him, but he's ready, willing and able to participate in next week's Home Run Derby at All-Star Game festivities at Yankee Stadium.Irritated by Major League Baseball's snub in the 2004 Derby following a strong showing in 2003, Pujols sounded as if he is past any bruised feelings or concern about doing damage to his swing.

"It doesn't bother me at all," he said. Pujols said Tuesday he is honored and looking forward to participating in the midsummer classic in the current Yankee Stadium's last season. Playing long ball Monday would only add to the experience."Last year, they (extended the invitation) when I was on the plane flying with Tony. It was pretty much an emergency," Pujols recalled of his flight to San Francisco with manager Tony La Russa as the Cardinals' only playing representative.

Pujols theorized an invitation to the Derby might again wait until the last minute while the commissioner's office waits to see whether New York Mets third baseman David Wright is voted onto the NL roster by fans.Pujols slipped from Busch Stadium after Sunday's 7-1 loss to the Chicago Cubs without addressing his selection by NL manager Clint Hurdle, but on Tuesday he underscored its meaning.

"With the level of competition, it's a great honor to go to the All-Star Game," said Pujols, yet to experience a National League win. "A lot of people say it gets old. To me, it doesn't get old. It's pretty much how you get paid for your offseason training. It's the reward for your first half. I take every one like my first one. I enjoy it. I try to do as much as I can."

StcChief
07-09-2008, 07:10 AM
Rest Albert...HR Derby meh. We need 2nd half Albert ready, more than this BS. Just for once win the All-star game. The stupid rule it gives Homefield for WS is bad.... hopefully Selig will soon be gone and it can be re-addressed as viable solution to home field.

I'm for the old even/odd year approach.

PGM
07-09-2008, 09:16 AM
Predictions for Mulder's first start?? I'm expecting the worst to be honest, but we'll see.

PGM
07-09-2008, 09:19 AM
Thats all fine and dandy as long as they don't trade away prospects for a short term solution. If its a long term solution? Thats okay. We have a log jam in the outfield. If we can clear that and get a player that will be with us for a while I say pull the trigger.

Oh, I really don't want them to make any big trades anyway. I just meant getting Wainwright and Carpenter back can help just as much as the trades the scrubs and blowers made.

Frazod
07-09-2008, 09:24 AM
Predictions for Mulder's first start?? I'm expecting the worst to be honest, but we'll see.

Against Philadelphia? I assume he'll get demolished (on national TV too :banghead: ). IMO, it's a mistake to take him out of the bullpen. But hopefully he'll do OK.

StcChief
07-09-2008, 10:28 AM
Predictions for Mulder's first start?? I'm expecting the worst to be honest, but we'll see.3 to 4 innings at most likely giving up 4 runs.

Will be watching with a Philly fan tonite ...:rolleyes: let the abuse begin.

but hope I'm wrong and Duncan/LaRussa think he's really ready for this.:doh!:

BigRedChief
07-09-2008, 11:18 AM
3 to 4 innings at most likely giving up 4 runs.

Will be watching with a Philly fan tonite ...:rolleyes: let the abuse begin.

but hope I'm wrong and Duncan/LaRussa think he's really ready for this.:doh!:
I'm not very hopeful either. The dude springs his shoulder moving a suticase for crissakes. He has the money why torture yourself to get back unless you really really want it. I don't think he does anymore.

OnTheWarpath58
07-09-2008, 11:21 AM
Against Philadelphia? I assume he'll get demolished (on national TV too :banghead: ). IMO, it's a mistake to take him out of the bullpen. But hopefully he'll do OK.


They should have waited to start him until the Pittsburgh series, and not on the road against a team who absolutely RAKES lefthanders.

Regardless - good, bad or average tonight, he's going to get a few more starts - how he does in THOSE is what I'm most interested in.

StcChief
07-09-2008, 11:40 AM
They should have waited to start him until the Pittsburgh series, and not on the road against a team who absolutely RAKES lefthanders.

Regardless - good, bad or average tonight, he's going to get a few more starts - how he does in THOSE is what I'm most interested in.

If he's not DONE, he's gotta be getting close...... My confidence is nill, not sure how his contract is structured maybe the Cards have to take the lumps let him out there if he doesn't work out well....

epitome1170
07-09-2008, 11:57 AM
If he's not DONE, he's gotta be getting close...... My confidence is nill, not sure how his contract is structured maybe the Cards have to take the lumps let him out there if he doesn't work out well....

It is hard to be optimistic with Mulder. I really do not see this fairing well tonight either.

As for his contract, I think the Cards have an option for him for next season, so, unless he pitches well the remainder of the season he will probably be gone.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 01:15 PM
Mulder's box score:

1.1 IP 7R 7ER 8H 3 BB 0K

47 Pitches

He can't throw over the top any more, so it's going to be hard for him to keep the ball down in the strike zone, which for a guy who can't make hitters swing and miss, is absolutely vital. He's going to define the word "pisspounded" tonight.

StcChief
07-09-2008, 01:18 PM
Mulder's box score:

1.1 IP 7R 7ER 8H 3 BB 0K

47 Pitches

He can't throw over the top any more, so it's going to be hard for him to keep the ball down in the strike zone, which for a guy who can't make hitters swing and miss, is absolutely vital. He's going to define the word "pisspounded" tonight. in relief 1.1 IP......
but I'm interested in how he's a Starter, if he get's pounded we will know he's really not ready, can't believe Cards would just throw him vs. Philly for the hell of it...

Frazod
07-09-2008, 01:23 PM
I've made it clear over the years that I'm no Mulder fan, but in that last outing when he got shelled initially he did have a couple of bloops drop in and generally shitty luck. The problem was that it really seemed to get to him - mental toughness is as big of a concern as his surgically repaired parts.

Too bad we can't get Crash Davis to give him the old "don't think; it can only hurt the ballclub" speech.

epitome1170
07-09-2008, 01:34 PM
in relief 1.1 IP......
but I'm interested in how he's a Starter, if he get's pounded we will know he's really not ready, can't believe Cards would just throw him vs. Philly for the hell of it...

They need to find out this year if he is going to be worth picking up his option next year or not. Might as well figure it out with a good team right away. They have taken their time getting him back and I am tired of waiting for him to come back. Might as well see what he has and if his new arm slot location is really going to make a difference.

StcChief
07-09-2008, 01:35 PM
They need to find out this year if he is going to be worth picking up his option next year or not. Might as well figure it out with a good team right away. They have taken their time getting him back and I am tired of waiting for him to come back. Might as well see what he has and if his new arm slot location is really going to make a difference.yeah, they may be using this to determine if they are gonna make some moves by August.

epitome1170
07-09-2008, 01:39 PM
yeah, they may be using this to determine if they are gonna make some moves by August.

I don't know if they will make any moves to begin with. They may make small ones, but I doubt they do anything drastic. And frankly I am ok with that, 2008 is not meant to be "our year" to begin with. I will take anything I can get at this point. Let's not trade away our farm system for a rental player.

BigRedChief
07-09-2008, 01:41 PM
I don't know if they will make any moves to begin with. They may make small ones, but I doubt they do anything drastic. And frankly I am ok with that, 2008 is not meant to be "our year" to begin with. I will take anything I can get at this point. Let's not trade away our farm system for a rental player.
:thumb: yep lets not mortgage 2009 and 2010.

StcChief
07-09-2008, 01:44 PM
I don't know if they will make any moves to begin with. They may make small ones, but I doubt they do anything drastic. And frankly I am ok with that, 2008 is not meant to be "our year" to begin with. I will take anything I can get at this point. Let's not trade away our farm system for a rental player.I agreed the farm report in this thread shows alot of encouragemet, still think C.Duncan could add a bat somewhere else and get us a Middleman etc.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 01:45 PM
in relief 1.1 IP......
but I'm interested in how he's a Starter, if he get's pounded we will know he's really not ready, can't believe Cards would just throw him vs. Philly for the hell of it...

I'm projecting his line tonight.

StcChief
07-09-2008, 01:46 PM
I'm projecting his line tonight.wow...
he's gettin' rocked. maybe I'll stay in avoid abuse.:shake:

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 01:46 PM
I agreed the farm report in this thread shows alot of encouragemet, still think C.Duncan could add a bat somewhere else and get us a Middleman etc.

No, he can't. He could have two years ago, but right now his only selling point is that he has a good eye. He can't hit LHP at all, regardless of year, and this year he hasn't been able to hit anything.

epitome1170
07-09-2008, 01:50 PM
No, he can't. He could have two years ago, but right now his only selling point is that he has a good eye. He can't hit LHP at all, regardless of year, and this year he hasn't been able to hit anything.

True, but we may be able to pack him, Anthony Reyes, and Brenden Ryan for one decent talent (I am dreaming). All three of those guys are pretty well useless to our organization. Ryan may be the exception to that because he is better than Cesar, but I do not see him being an everyday player like I had hoped he would.

Frazod
07-09-2008, 01:52 PM
True, but we may be able to pack him, Anthony Reyes, and Brenden Ryan for one decent talent (I am dreaming). All three of those guys are pretty well useless to our organization. Ryan may be the exception to that because he is better than Cesar, but I do not see him being an everyday player like I had hoped he would.

Too bad Matt Millen only does football. :D

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 01:58 PM
True, but we may be able to pack him, Anthony Reyes, and Brenden Ryan for one decent talent (I am dreaming). All three of those guys are pretty well useless to our organization. Ryan may be the exception to that because he is better than Cesar, but I do not see him being an everyday player like I had hoped he would.

Ryan is barely replacement level, and Reyes has horrible mechanics that leave him very susceptible to injury. You aren't going to fetch anything for those guys, and sadly, they aren't even good enough to become type B free agents, so even if they left, you get no compensation for them in the draft.

BigRedChief
07-09-2008, 02:00 PM
True, but we may be able to pack him, Anthony Reyes, and Brenden Ryan for one decent talent (I am dreaming). All three of those guys are pretty well useless to our organization. Ryan may be the exception to that because he is better than Cesar, but I do not see him being an everyday player like I had hoped he would.
Not everyone is stupid but it only takes one GM :rolleyes:

epitome1170
07-09-2008, 02:01 PM
Ryan is barely replacement level, and Reyes has horrible mechanics that leave him very susceptible to injury. You aren't going to fetch anything for those guys, and sadly, they aren't even good enough to become type B free agents, so even if they left, you get no compensation for them in the draft.

Like I said... I am dreaming. It is too bad Dayton Moore came to KC otherwise we could have gotten something then. :evil:

I just know those three will do us no good. Ryan can maybe be a utility infielder, but besides that they need to go and try to get something for them.

BigRedChief
07-09-2008, 02:02 PM
Ryan is barely replacement level, and Reyes has horrible mechanics that leave him very susceptible to injury. You aren't going to fetch anything for those guys, and sadly, they aren't even good enough to become type B free agents, so even if they left, you get no compensation for them in the draft.
correct, we have many tradeable players that can help us be "real" contenders for a WS in 2009 or 2010 but not those guys. And I'd rather trade a 30 year old Ludwick than Maithers or Ramus to free up the outfield logjam.

epitome1170
07-09-2008, 02:04 PM
correct, we have many tradeable players that can help us be "real" contenders for a WS in 2009 or 2010 but not those guys. And I'd rather trade a 30 year old Ludwick than Maithers or Ramus to free up the outfield logjam.

Ludwick can go and I think he may go to free up some space for Rasmus. I think he is a flash in the pan anyway, so, it won't bother me too much.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 06:14 PM
Mulder's box score:

1.1 IP 7R 7ER 8H 3 BB 0K

47 Pitches

He can't throw over the top any more, so it's going to be hard for him to keep the ball down in the strike zone, which for a guy who can't make hitters swing and miss, is absolutely vital. He's going to define the word "pisspounded" tonight.

Jesus, and to think I was too optimistic.

He'll never throw another big league pitch.

Frazod
07-09-2008, 06:18 PM
Jesus, and to think I was too optimistic.

He'll never throw another big league pitch.

Well, personally I'm relieved. I never expected him to do anything but fail tonight, and he did. But at least he didn't give up 20 runs before leaving the game.

Adios, Mulder. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 06:24 PM
Well, personally I'm relieved. I never expected him to do anything but fail tonight, and he did. But at least he didn't give up 20 runs before leaving the game.

Adios, Mulder. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

ROFL

Worst trade in Cardinal history.

Haren Carpenter and Wainwright. Maybe that would have been an ok rotation :banghead:

Frazod
07-09-2008, 06:25 PM
ROFL

Worst trade in Cardinal history.

Haren Carpenter and Wainwright. Maybe that would have been an ok rotation :banghead:

Don't even get me started. :grr:

DJ's left nut
07-09-2008, 06:35 PM
Thank God that experiment is over.

Now we can move on without him. Thompson never should've been yanked from the rotation to begin with, I hope he gets the shot they gave Reyes (who never earned it). I can't figure out why an organiation with an emphasis on ground balls and homegrown talent never gave him a shot.

Sure-Oz
07-09-2008, 06:48 PM
Did mulder re-injure his arm?

Frazod
07-09-2008, 06:50 PM
First inning, he got one out, walked two, and then experienced "discomfort" in his shoulder and got the hook. Thompson then came in and got Howard to hit into a DP.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 06:52 PM
He probably hurt his labia...err labrum on that pick off throw.

DJ's left nut
07-09-2008, 06:53 PM
Did mulder re-injure his arm?

Re-injure it? Sure, if you think it was ever not injured.

Better answer: Mulder's chronically injured shoulder has finally proven once and for all that he is incapable of retiring major league hitters on a consistent basis.

He'll retire now and we'll only have to be reminded of that abortion of a trade when Haren comes and kicks our ass once or twice a year.

Frazod
07-09-2008, 06:55 PM
Sure would be nice if we could SCORE SOME F#CKING RUNS :banghead:

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 07:08 PM
To those espousing Burnett's virtues:

He was spotted a 7 run lead and in the sixth gave up six runs before they yanked his ass like they were starting a lawn mower.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 07:37 PM
Absolute horseshit. The Cards are getting f*cked by that ump. The same pitch that is a strike on 2-1 is a ball on 2-2 and Howard drives in a run on 3-2.

Frazod
07-09-2008, 08:03 PM
God that sucks. We've got some shit luck going tonight. :#

PGM
07-09-2008, 08:11 PM
LMAO So, ole Mulder couldn't get out of the first tonight?? Wow, what a waste of space. Stick a fork in him.

PGM
07-09-2008, 08:12 PM
To those espousing Burnett's virtues:

He was spotted a 7 run lead and in the sixth gave up six runs before they yanked his ass like they were starting a lawn mower.

"Wild thing" at it again. Keep his inconsistent ass as far away from STL as possible.

Frazod
07-09-2008, 08:13 PM
Nice at bat by Glaus. Tie game. :thumb:

Hopefully we can get a couple more.

PGM
07-09-2008, 08:13 PM
Well tie game now. Big 2 out hit by Glaus.

Frazod
07-09-2008, 08:18 PM
F#ck. Strike 3 on ball 4. :cuss:

PGM
07-09-2008, 08:30 PM
:drool:Maybe Albert will get to face Lidge tonight

DJ's left nut
07-09-2008, 08:37 PM
Baseball sucks.

Jewish Rabbi
07-09-2008, 08:45 PM
Who says we don't need some god damn relief pitchers now?

PGM
07-09-2008, 08:45 PM
POS feliz goes deep 4-2 :cuss:

Jewish Rabbi
07-09-2008, 08:51 PM
Good AB by schu there... hopefully we get something going, we've owned lidge since 05

Jewish Rabbi
07-09-2008, 09:02 PM
Not tonight tho... Man it gets old watching Pujols pop up in the ninth inning

PGM
07-09-2008, 09:03 PM
Great at bat by Glaus drawing the walk followed by Ankiel....just fugly right there. Game over.

DJ's left nut
07-09-2008, 09:09 PM
Rick couldn't have hit any of those with a tennis racket. Lord that was an awful at bat.

PGM
07-09-2008, 09:13 PM
Rick couldn't have hit any of those with a tennis racket. Lord that was an awful at bat.

He had already decided he was going to swing before the ball was even thrown. Swinging for the fences looking for a dead red fastball and ends up looking like a fool.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-09-2008, 09:25 PM
#1) Last week that same ball under the padding happened to Fielder in Milwaukee

Result--Inside the park HR

#2) That Howard at bat was as atrocious of a consistent strike zone as you can have.

#3) You can look in a box score and see Lidge and say "Hmm, 1 IP, 2K, 1BB--good line". In reality, that guy is still a complete head case. He didn't want to throw anything but a slider in the dirt to anyone, and every time he rared back to throw the FB, he was trying to blow his arm out because he doesn't trust it.

I cannot believe they just handed that guy 37 million. He looked nervous as hell out there and it's the middle of July.

BigRedChief
07-09-2008, 10:30 PM
Glad the mulder era is over and I'd have to agree one of the worst trades of the modern era for us. But at least we can move on now.

I'll always have some man love for Reyes. He pitched a helluva game to help my team win a world series. Same for Weaver. Where ever they go how much they suck they will always get the man love from me.:eek:

BigRedChief
07-10-2008, 06:37 AM
Larussa wants help now not in 2009.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Moved by what he has received from a team recognized as overachievers, Cardinals manager Tony La Russa on Wednesday urged that the front office and ownership "use every resource we can" to improve as quickly as possible following significant moves by the Chicago Cubs and Milwaukee Brewers.La Russa cited the Brewers' trade Monday for Cleveland Indians righthander CC Sabathia and the Cubs' acquisition Tuesday of Oakland A's starter Rich Harden and reliever Chad Gaudin as "not the best news we've heard this year if you're a Cardinal fan."

La Russa was not comforted by recent front-office suggestions that the expected return in August of starting pitchers Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright from elbow and finger issues would offset those deals."The difference is this is July 9 and those guys (Sabathia, Harden and Gaudin) are here now. You're looking at health (for Carpenter and Wainwright) in August," La Russa said. "That's a big edge to have the help now. I don't get comforted by the fact we may have guys coming back later." His statements Wednesday come as general manager John Mozeliak insists the club will not reflexively answer moves by its rivals, especially for pending free agents or so-called rental players.

"I think the goal and the urgency should be there to help us as long as a lot of games are left on the schedule," La Russa said.
La Russa suggested that modest expectations in February for the club should not affect the urgency to make a move, now that the club leads the wild card race 91 games into the schedule.

"In my mind, if you didn't have expectations and you were (lousy) July 1, it's a wash," La Russa said. "But whether you had expectations or you didn't, when you get to July 1 like we have, then I believe since you play the year you're playing and don't take anything for granted, your goal should be to improve your chance to win right now."

The Cardinals are in search of lefthanded relief help and another hitter, with starting pitching considered a secondary need. La Russa did not specify Wednesday what's on his wish list but, according to club sources, emphasized the need to better protect first baseman Albert Pujols within the lineup during a meeting last week with Mozeliak and Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr.

After general manager Walt Jocketty was fired in October, DeWitt publicly committed to creating greater self-sufficiency for a franchise traditionally dependent on free agency and trades.Mozeliak said Wednesday he can "appreciate where Tony is coming from. But I'm taking a broader view where we're not going to do something that may hurt us in two, three or four years."

A team thought to be "transitional" instead has vied for the NL Central lead most of this season, thanks to a starting rotation that leads the league in winning percentage, a much-improved defense and a quirky offense.
La Russa said, "If you have a high-expectation club and you get here, you might say, 'These guys are just getting rolling. They're guys who are going to get better, better and better.' Or you've got guys like ours. They've been busting it for three months. They probably need the boost more than another club."

La Russa recalled that the club left spring training, saying, "We still needed help when we started. Were we worthy of getting it? Maybe not, because it was a rebuilding year. Well, on July 1 we're one of the best records in the National League ... the wild card, whatever it is."
Privately, a number of players have inquired how the club may try to improve. La Russa did not deny sensing the vibe.

"I've had clubs that had a few more veterans kind of looking around. I don't know how sincere it was," La Russa said before sending Mark Mulder out for his first start since surgery last September — a start that lasted just three batters and one out. "But this club here, it's (all out). I just think the other day eve

BigRedChief
07-10-2008, 06:43 AM
More Larussa wants help now

---------------------------------------------------------------------

PHILADELPHIA -- Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, typically a man with a very strong "play with what you've got" bias, indicated Wednesday his desire for the team's front office to bolster its current roster before the trade deadline.

"Since you play the year you're playing and you don't take [anything] for granted, the goal should be to improve your chance to win right now," La Russa said. "Not crazy, not for the fans to think you're doing something, [not] stupid, but I mean legitimately, use every resource you can to figure, is there a way to improve the club's chance?"

The Cardinals have steadfastly maintained a long view in team-building since the installation of John Mozeliak as general manager last fall. Mozeliak acknowledges the 2008 team could use some upgrades. However, he asserted that the club will not be reactive in its dealings.
That is, while the trades of CC Sabathia to Milwaukee and Rich Harden to Chicago certainly got the Cardinals' attention, those moves are unlikely to change the team's philosophical bent. This year matters, but so do the next several years.

"We [do not] want to get in a situation where we feel like we have to make a knee-jerk reaction," Mozeliak said Tuesday, "because our two biggest competitors in our division have made substantial moves. As we move forward, we're going to look at ways we can also improve our club. It may not be as dramatic as what they've done."

Outside of Busch Stadium, little was expected of this Cardinals team when the season started. And while team personnel rejected the notion of 2008 as a "transitional year," it was no secret that long-term flexibility was a major consideration in several of the club's offseason moves.

However, the 2008 Cardinals have exceeded many of those expectations. At the start of play Wednesday, they had the National League's second-best record and led the race for the NL Wild Card. In La Russa's mind, that means the equation is different from what it was in April.

"We still needed help when we started," he said. "It's just, were we worthy of getting it? We might not have been, because it's a rebuilding year, right? [But on] July 1, we've got the [second-best] record in the National League, we're [leading] for the Wild Card."

La Russa acknowledges the Cardinals may receive a significant boost next month, when both Adam Wainwright (finger) and Chris Carpenter (elbow surgery) are expected to return from injury. But he noted that both Chicago and Milwaukee made additions four or five weeks before those pitchers may return.

"This is what, July 9?" La Russa said. "And those guys [Sabathia and Harden] are here now. You're looking at help in August. That's a big edge to have the help. I don't get comforted by the fact that we may have guys coming back later. "The goal and the urgency is to see if there's something that can help us, as long as there are a lot of games left on the schedule."

StcChief
07-10-2008, 09:16 AM
If Mulder is done, the L was worth it. I agree try to improve, but don't at the expense of
too many projects that are in the wings developing nicely on the Farm.

smittysbar
07-10-2008, 10:26 AM
Sounds like Tony is wanting some help, hope the front office agrees.

God wasn't Rick's at bats the last two times up last night some of the ugliest shit you have ever seen. I about threw my Cap n Coke at the TV.

Frazod
07-10-2008, 10:34 AM
To be fair, Albert's pop-ups weren't much better.

This team needs to start scoring some f#cking runs. Everybody's bitching about pitching, but we've only scored 12 runs in the past week. Can't blame Mulder for that.

BigRedChief
07-10-2008, 10:43 AM
To be fair, Albert's pop-ups weren't much better.
Who knows if the calf issue doesn't effect his swing from time to time. We are talking about a 1/4 in difference on where the ball meets the bat between a home run/line drive/flyout.

StcChief
07-10-2008, 11:18 AM
Who knows if the calf issue doesn't effect his swing from time to time. We are talking about a 1/4 in difference on where the ball meets the bat between a home run/line drive/flyout.we said that last nite....Albert will find it again. he could use the All-star break as a rest but....no.

epitome1170
07-10-2008, 11:21 AM
It's official now. Mulder to the DL, Garcia called up

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbn_cardinals_mulder_6

Chief Henry
07-10-2008, 11:35 AM
I'd say the Mulder experiment as a Cardinals is just about done.

I'm glad I didn't get to watch last nights game. I was at a HS softball game.

smittysbar
07-10-2008, 12:46 PM
It's official now. Mulder to the DL, Garcia called up

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbn_cardinals_mulder_6


YES :thumb:

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-10-2008, 01:16 PM
Garcia is our best pitching prospect, and it's nice to see them give him a shot rather than another Reyes retread.

With that being said, Tony can go f*ck himself. This team is not built to compete. We have too many holes on this team. Our starting pitching is overrated, our bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and our middle infielders can't hit for shit.

If I see another Coco Crisp for two months of Chuck f*cking Finley trade, I'm going to kill someone

OnTheWarpath58
07-10-2008, 01:21 PM
Garcia is our best pitching prospect, and it's nice to see them give him a shot rather than another Reyes retread.

With that being said, Tony can go f*ck himself. This team is not built to compete. We have too many holes on this team. Our starting pitching is overrated, our bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and our middle infielders can't hit for shit.

If I see another Coco Crisp for two months of Chuck f*cking Finley trade, I'm going to kill someone

Couldn't agree more.

I'm thrilled that they've hung around as long as they have, with obviously inferior talent.

No matter what they do, they aren't winning their 11th Championship this year.

Grin and bear it, play out the season, and get some kids some meaningful time on the field - it will only make them stronger for 2009.

BigRedChief
07-10-2008, 01:22 PM
Garcia is our best pitching prospect, and it's nice to see them give him a shot rather than another Reyes retread.

With that being said, Tony can go f*ck himself. This team is not built to compete. We have too many holes on this team. Our starting pitching is overrated, our bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and our middle infielders can't hit for shit.

If I see another Coco Crisp for two months of Chuck f*cking Finley trade, I'm going to kill someone
It's Tony's job to sell himself to the players that he's on their side. But on the other hand maybe he really is going to call it quits next year and doesn't care about the Cardinals after 2009?

smittysbar
07-10-2008, 01:22 PM
Cards down 1 to 4 bottom of 7th

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-10-2008, 01:27 PM
It's Tony's job to sell himself to the players that he's on their side. But on the other hand maybe he really is going to call it quits next year and doesn't care about the Cardinals after 2009?

It goes both ways. If you go out and make a desperation move not only do you hurt yourself long term but it also sends the message that they aren't good enough to compete now. If he quits, he quits. He's a great manager, but I'd much rather have a good manager with a team that has Pujols, Rasmus, Brett Wallace, Garcia, Perez, and Todd, than I would have a great manager with a team filled with reclamation projects.

StcChief
07-10-2008, 01:31 PM
The Cardinal spin on Mulder/Garcia

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080710&content_id=3106278&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl


PHILADELPHIA -- Mark Mulder's latest injury came as a huge disappointment to player and team, but it also opened a door for yet another young Cardinal. Left-hander Jaime Garcia was recalled from Triple-A Memphis on Thursday to take the spot of Mulder, who was placed on the 15-day disabled list with a left shoulder injury. Garcia is regarded as perhaps the organization's top pitching prospect, and his future looks bright. However, his recall on Thursday is more a matter of need than perfect timing, since he has struggled at times at Memphis.

Garcia has also enjoyed some brilliant outings, but in general, he's been inconsistent since his promotion from Double-A Springfield.
"He's had some good periods and he's made progress," manager Tony La Russa said Thursday morning. "I think he can be used in a Brad Thompson-like way, versatile. He can give us innings, because he's used to it. And we have a left-handed relief need. Like today, if he's available to pitch, I'd bring him in there against [Ryan] Howard and find out."

One complication: Garcia has a significant reverse platoon split. He's been
much more effective against right-handed hitters than against lefties.
Still, it's an exciting moment for Garcia and for the organization. When Garcia pitches, he will become the 10th Cardinal to make his Major League debut this season -- an impressive number for any organization, but especially for a team very much in playoff contention.

One downside for Garcia: he will not pitch in the XM All-Star Futures Game on Sunday in New York. He had been selected to pitch for the World team in the annual prospect showcase.

BigRedChief
07-10-2008, 01:31 PM
It goes both ways. If you go out and make a desperation move not only do you hurt yourself long term but it also sends the message that they aren't good enough to compete now. If he quits, he quits. He's a great manager, but I'd much rather have a good manager with a team that has Pujols, Rasmus, Brett Wallace, Garcia, Perez, and Todd, than I would have a great manager with a team filled with reclamation projects.
I hear ya and agree. Tony can be very irritating but you can't argue with the results. 2006 and this years success can defintely be traced to Tony despite the micro managing etc.

I hope Dave Duncan doesn't retire if Tony does. The guy has a talent like no other.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-10-2008, 01:54 PM
The Cardinal spin on Mulder/Garcia

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080710&content_id=3106278&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl


PHILADELPHIA -- Mark Mulder's latest injury came as a huge disappointment to player and team, but it also opened a door for yet another young Cardinal. Left-hander Jaime Garcia was recalled from Triple-A Memphis on Thursday to take the spot of Mulder, who was placed on the 15-day disabled list with a left shoulder injury. Garcia is regarded as perhaps the organization's top pitching prospect, and his future looks bright. However, his recall on Thursday is more a matter of need than perfect timing, since he has struggled at times at Memphis.

Garcia has also enjoyed some brilliant outings, but in general, he's been inconsistent since his promotion from Double-A Springfield.
"He's had some good periods and he's made progress," manager Tony La Russa said Thursday morning. "I think he can be used in a Brad Thompson-like way, versatile. He can give us innings, because he's used to it. And we have a left-handed relief need. Like today, if he's available to pitch, I'd bring him in there against [Ryan] Howard and find out."

One complication: Garcia has a significant reverse platoon split. He's been
much more effective against right-handed hitters than against lefties.
Still, it's an exciting moment for Garcia and for the organization. When Garcia pitches, he will become the 10th Cardinal to make his Major League debut this season -- an impressive number for any organization, but especially for a team very much in playoff contention.

One downside for Garcia: he will not pitch in the XM All-Star Futures Game on Sunday in New York. He had been selected to pitch for the World team in the annual prospect showcase.

Well, the team doesn't need a fifth starter until after the break b/c of how the schedule falls. To be honest, I'd like to see them plug him in there, and then use him as a swing/ 6th starter rather than a lefty reliever. He's too valuable to be a LOOGY.

One guy that I really miss that I haven't heard a lot from lately (in regards to his rehab) is Josh Kinney. He's supposed to begin a rehab assignment on August 1. If you get him in mid August, he could be a valuable cog. Even though he's a righty, his slider is absolute death against lefties.

Flores can die in a fire.

Honestly, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop on Wellemeyer. It seems to me like his elbow is hanging on by a thread. Even though Barton's wrist injury is minor, I wouldn't mind us Belichicking his ass and fudging the injury report so we don't have to send him back to Cleveland, thus enabling us to bring up Rasmus.

Jewish Rabbi
07-10-2008, 01:54 PM
I hope Dave Duncan doesn't retire if Tony does. The guy has a talent like no other.I'd imagine that it's a package deal, sadly enough.

'Hamas' Jenkins
07-10-2008, 02:00 PM
God, Ryan is beyond worthless.

smittysbar
07-10-2008, 02:00 PM
Philly took 2 of 3

StcChief
07-10-2008, 02:11 PM
Losing last nite with Mulder debacle .....not even 3-4 innings. In a screwy game....

we got some work for Thompson who did fine IMO.

BigRedChief
07-10-2008, 02:12 PM
I'd imagine that it's a package deal, sadly enough.
Yep.

Frazod
07-10-2008, 03:22 PM
Lost again. Scored one goddamn run. 4321

At least the Cubs are losing as well, down by 5 in the 9th. But the Brewers won, so we just got dumped into third.

Demonpenz
07-10-2008, 03:40 PM
Mulder maybe done for good

StcChief
07-10-2008, 04:38 PM
Mulder maybe done for goodhe was basically done before wear Cardinal uni....considering what they paid him.

now if Doctors say he's perm done, insurance money kicks in.....

PGM
07-10-2008, 08:09 PM
Need....to....score....some.....runs!!!

BigRedChief
07-11-2008, 06:15 AM
This team needs to start scoring some f#cking runs. Everybody's bitching about pitching, but we've only scored 12 runs in the past week. Can't blame Mulder for that.
True dat. Yeah, yeah, yeah our pitching is the walking wounded or reclaims off the MLB scrap heap but our offense is begining to look really lame. I think part of the issue is nobody in the lineup to protect Albert and Ludwick, Kennedy, Miles, Ainkel and Shumaker need to be more consistent.

BigRedChief
07-11-2008, 06:42 AM
From the St. Louis paper
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the youngsters the Cards should not move, under any circumstances:

Kyle McClellan, RP: He is one of the stalwarts of the current Cards bullpen, due to his ability to work multiple innings and retire left-handed hitters. Pitching coach Dave Duncan sees him moving to the starting rotation in ’09. That change could occur sooner if the franchise can’t shore up the rotation through other means. We assume McClellan would be the first pitcher other teams ask for.

Chris Perez, RP: As Mozeliak likes to say, Perez is “pre-engineered to pitch late innings.” He arrived ahead of schedule to give the bullpen another power arm. He needs to gain better command of his stuff, since big league hitters have made him pay for bad pitch location. Like McClellan, he has a big role now and will have a bigger role going forward.

Colby Rasmus, OF: In June he batted .333 with eight doubles, four homers and 15 RBI. By turning the corner at the Class AAA level, he got back on schedule to start the ’09 season in St. Louis. How about an outfield of Ryan Ludwick, Rasmus and Rick Ankiel, with Skip Schumaker mixing in? That would be a productive offensive group and an excellent defensive unit.

Jaime Garcia, SP: It’s a little early to test him at the big league level, but Mulder’s demise forces management’s hand. He is a lefty, which the Cards desperately need, and he works the lower half of the strike zone with his power arm. He developed a sore elbow last season, so the Cards must keep a close watch on his physical condition.

Clayton Mortensen, SP: As a Memphis Redbird, he just got rocked in New Orleans -- but that’s going to happen trying to jump from college baseball (Gonzaga) to the Class AAA level in one year. The Cards liked him in spring training and management loves him now.

David Freese, 3B: He bypassed Class AA ball altogether, which is no easy feat. He is batting .274 with 14 homers at Memphis. He isn’t a mortal lock to reach the majors, but his offensive and defensive progress is encouraging. He could become a long-term option to replace Troy Glaus, should the Cards opt not to extend the big fella past 2009.

Jess Todd, SP: Like Mortsensen, he is making a quick adjustment from the college game. He has big league stuff and an excellent feel for pitching. He has been overpowering at the Class AA level. He may be the most exciting pitching prospect in the whole organization.

And here are some players who could become more expendable:

Mitchell Boggs, SP: At Memphis, he is 6-1 with a 3.14 ERA. He won three games as a Cards fill-in. (And you could argue that he should still be here.) He would have to be attractive to other teams, right? And with several young hurlers maturing at once, he could be a nice chip to spend now.

Mike Parisi, SP: He is 6-1 with a 3.38 ERA at Memphis. He had a couple of good relief outings as a Cards fill-in, but he also got rocked. Right now he looks like a depth guy for this organization.

Joe Mather, OF: He is a handy player, given his ability to play all three outfield spots and the corner infield slots. It would be nice to see him stick in ’09 as a power-hitting utility player. But with the Cards strong in the outfield and on the infield corners – especially with top ’08 pick Brett Wallace on a fast track – Mather could move into play.

Brian Barton, OF: The Cards love his speed and his potential as a contact hitter. But, again, there are so many other guys.

Bryan Anderson, C: Good-hitting young catchers are scarce. And Anderson has come a long way defensively. He is one of the organization’s best assets. But with Yadier Molina entrenched here, other teams will target him in trade talks.

Nick Stavinoha, OF: He continues to kill Class AAA pitching, but he has nowhere to go in this organization. The Cards have better prospects. He isn’t a great defensive player and he doesn’t have tremendous power. He can hit, though, and that has to have some value to other organizations.

Jarrett Hoffpauir, 2B: He is batting .301 at Memphis, but the Cards have a big surplus of middle infielders. This kid doesn’t offer speed or power, so it’s tough to project him as a major league starter. He is behind Brendan Ryan, who can run and play multiple positions.

John Jay, OF: Like Stavinoha, he is busting out at the plate. He has earned some comparisons to Coco Crisp, but that may be optimistic. Given the Cards’ long-term depth at this position, he would have to be another trade candidate.

Jason Motte, RP: He is strictly a power pitcher. He has struck out 64 batters for Memphis in 41 1/3 innings. He isn’t polished enough now to help the Cards, though, so he could move into play.

Adam Ottavino: He still offers considerable potential, but his up-and-down season at Springfield allowed other prospects to move past him. Last year he was 12-8 at Class A Palm Beach, with a 3.08 ERA. Holding onto him would make sense – to allow his value to grow – but if another team was interested . . .

The bottom line:
The Cards could offer some pretty good long-term assets without spending those prospects most likely to help in ‘09. Mozeliak could get La Russa some much-sought help without compromising the overall retooling process.

BigRedChief
07-11-2008, 06:45 AM
Tidbit I picked up while I was in St. Louis.........

Kyle McClellan's is from St. Louis. His Dad is a long time(20+ years) season ticket holder. Kyle used to go to 50+ Cardinal games every year growing up.

Man how cool would that be to have a local kid who use to watch from the stands be a productive member of the team?

StcChief
07-11-2008, 07:59 AM
The future's so bright...I gotta wear shades.

BigRedChief
07-11-2008, 04:48 PM
<HR>Expert: Cubs, Brewers deals pop Cardinals out of race?
Mulder's abrupt exit makes St. Louis a longshot in competitive NL Central
ASK THE BASEBALL EXPERT
By Tony DeMarco
updated 5:15 p.m. CT, Thurs., July. 10, 2008
<SCRIPT language=javascript> function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt,(('false'.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } UpdateTimeStamp('633513249425670000');</SCRIPT>
Sixteen pitches. That’s all it took for the St. Louis Cardinals to be forced to give up on the long-shot hope that they would get a significant contribution from Mark Mulder.

That’s all it took for Mulder to walk off the mound at Citizens Bank Park in pain on Wednesday night, unable to reach the proper arm slot with his twice-surgically-repaired left shoulder. Now we wonder if Mulder’s season is over, and if worse, we have seen the last of him as an effective starting pitcher.

And we also wonder how soon the Cardinals will try another answer to the major acquisitions of their rivals in the powerful top half of the National League Central. They better hurry up, because as Tony La Russa noted this week, the Brewers and Cubs already were very good teams before they acquired CC Sabathia, Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin.

What can the Cardinals do? They could do what La Russa and pitching coach Dave Duncan do better than anybody else – find a stopgap solution for the rotation. After all, you can make a case for the other four Cardinals starters – Braden Looper, Kyle Lohse, Todd Wellemeyer and Joel Pineiro – being reclamation projects of one sort or another.

Brad Thompson could move back into the rotation, a reliever (preferably left-handed) could be acquired or promoted from within – and hopefully that will work until August, when rehabbing aces Adam Wainwright (finger) and Chris Carpenter (elbow) are scheduled to return.

Meanwhile, the Cardinals also could address another pressing need – one that has several quality options still available – and deal for a significant corner-outfield bat to better protect Albert Pujols. Cardinals management has acknowledged that need all season, and it has become more urgent lately.
The problem is, while Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, Xavier Nady and other quality hitters reportedly are available or will be soon enough, the Cardinals have placed a new-found emphasis on the draft, player development and building from within. So, ironically, they are taking more of a long-term approach than both the Cubs and long-building Brewers, both of whom are in win-now modes.

So how do you answer two apparently top-notch mid-season deals, especially when you’re not willing to give up your top prospect – outfielder Colby Rasmus? The answer is, you probably won’t, so expect the Cardinals to have trouble hanging in the NL Central and wildcard races. They already have dropped to third place after Thursday’s games -- but to dismiss them always is a mistake, too.

As for the deals of the Cubs and Brewers,
Jim Hendry answered Doug Melvin as best he could – and didn’t waste any time in doing so, giving the Brewers almost no time to enjoy their one-upmanship.
While Harden may not be Sabathia – last year’s Cy Young Award winner -- he has been close enough when healthy. Can he stay that way down the stretch? There is at least some concern in the fact that Harden’s velocity has been down a bit in his last two outings, both only five innings in length. But taking a calculated gamble that puts Harden with Carlos Zambrano, Ryan Dempster and Ted Lilly in a powerful foursome is the right thing to do.

And don’t forget that the underrated Gaudin is far more than a throw-in. He started the season 3-2 with a 3.75 in six starts before moving to the A’s bullpen, where he was 2-0 with a 3.07 ERA in June. His effective sinkerball and experience will help lighten the workloads of Carlos Marmol, Bob Howry and Michael Wuertz as bridges to closer Kerry Wood. The Cubs were the deeper, better-balanced team before this week’s deals, and remain that way now.

Melvin stated the obvious by saying ‘we’re going for it’ with the acquisition of Sabathia. But that’s the mandate from an owner who wants to win and a fan base that hasn’t seen a home playoff game in 26 years. The Brewers were fairly certain they won’t be able to retain free-agent-to-be Ben Sheets this winter, so why not take their best shot now – especially when at least a wildcard spot clearly is there for the taking?
If Matt Laporta turns out to be another Ryan Braun or Prince Fielder, the Brewers may feel differently down the road. But there are times when the present takes precedence over the near-future, and that time is now in Milwaukee.

Frazod
07-11-2008, 05:56 PM
If we can't stay in the race with what we've got I'd rather call it a year and root for Milwaukee than gut our farm system getting a bat and an arm. Hopefully our hitters will snap out of this ghastly funk they're in and we can continue.

Jewish Rabbi
07-11-2008, 09:57 PM
I'd definitely like to compete this year, but if the right deal comes along, I wouldn't mind moving a Ludwick or *gasp* Ankiel for a good young pitcher. Sure, Rick is a fan favorite in StL, but we have the pieces in the minors to make everyone forget about him relatively quickly (enter Rasmus). Hell, Glaus isn't even a terrible trade either if we can dump his salary, looks like Freese should be ready by next year.

smittysbar
07-12-2008, 09:15 AM
Well the ****ers finally scored more than 2 runs

OnTheWarpath58
07-12-2008, 08:31 PM
****ing Isringhausen.

Trade this ****stick for a 55 gallon drum of ****ing sunflower seeds.

StcChief
07-12-2008, 08:36 PM
****ing Isringhausen.

Trade this ****stick for a 55 gallon drum of ****ing sunflower seeds.
no a keg of Haagarten.... :p

PGM
07-12-2008, 08:43 PM
**** unbelievable :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Jewish Rabbi
07-12-2008, 08:44 PM
Throw this season down the shitter...we can't hold that then we can't hold anything

StcChief
07-12-2008, 08:45 PM
**** unbelievable :banghead::banghead::banghead:
a 10-4 lead in the eight.....lose 12-11 WTF

all star break can't get here fast enough

PGM
07-12-2008, 08:48 PM
a 10-4 lead in the eight.....lose 12-11 WTF

all star break can't get here fast enough

Lose more ground to the sCrUBs and a chance to gain a game on the Blowers...win crapped away by izzy and company

PGM
07-12-2008, 08:50 PM
****ing Isringhausen.

Trade this ****stick for a 55 gallon drum of ****ing sunflower seeds.

Honestly, it is at the point where we would have to throw in a prospect for someone to take this joke off our hands in return for nothing.

BigRedChief
07-12-2008, 09:21 PM
Izzy just needs to go away like Mulder. They and the Cardinals need to move on.

StcChief
07-13-2008, 11:48 AM
RIP Dave Ricketts.....

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rickeda01.shtml 60s player and coach after.

PGM
07-13-2008, 12:21 PM
Getting mowed down thus far by Ian Snell

Frazod
07-13-2008, 12:22 PM
I'm wearing my Royals jersey today.... :mad:

dj56dt58
07-13-2008, 12:23 PM
poor st losers...

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:24 PM
To this point, I've only used the "Thread Ignore" option on KU crap. :p

PGM
07-13-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm wearing my Royals jersey today.... :mad:

:hmmm: Wonder why? :banghead:

Frazod
07-13-2008, 12:29 PM
I watched the end of that piece of shit last night. I cannot remember a more pathetic loss. Blow a four run lead in the 9th against..... THE F#CKING BUTT PIRATES???? Suckringhausen is done. Get him out... NOW. Screw him and the eight saves he'll never get to reach 300. 4321

PGM
07-13-2008, 12:31 PM
First loss this season that actually made me mad. The other ones even when the pen blew em didn't bother me, but that POS performance by Izzy and the band of misfits bout made me puke.

Frazod
07-13-2008, 12:34 PM
21 blown goddamn saves. Leads the majors. Just imagine this team with Soria.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:37 PM
21 blown goddamn saves. Leads the majors. Just imagine this team with Soria.

Ha! When was the last time a Cardinal fan ever coveted a Royal? He's one of the very few bright spots the Royals have, and the Cardinals can't ****ing have him!

PGM
07-13-2008, 12:39 PM
Miles goes deep :eek: 4-1

Frazod
07-13-2008, 12:39 PM
Ha! When was the last time a Cardinal fan ever coveted a Royal? He's one of the very few bright spots the Royals have, and the Cardinals can't ****ing have him!

I like him just fine where he is. I'm just saying, with a quality closer (and he's the first that came to mind), this team has a five to ten game lead over Chicago right now. It just pisses me off.

PGM
07-13-2008, 12:40 PM
Ha! When was the last time a Cardinal fan ever coveted a Royal? He's one of the very few bright spots the Royals have, and the Cardinals can't ****ing have him!

Hell I'd trade you entire bullpens in a heartbeat.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:41 PM
I like him just fine where he is. I'm just saying, with a quality closer (and he's the first that came to mind), this team has a five to ten game lead over Chicago right now. It just pisses me off.

Yeah, I follow. It's just been a long. LONG time when fans of other teams have wondered how much better they'd be if a Royals player was on their roster. Kind of strange, really.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:42 PM
Hell I'd trade you entire bullpens in a heartbeat.

Thanks, but no thanks.

StcChief
07-13-2008, 12:43 PM
Ha! When was the last time a Cardinal fan ever coveted a Royal? He's one of the very few bright spots the Royals have, and the Cardinals can't ****ing have him!
with the George Brett (beside the invisible Denkinger) as your lone "hero" statue. I'd STFU this is Cardinal thread and noise from the AAA peanut gallary don't apply.

I'd be nice to have someone like Soria, (a real closer). Izzy done, and we haven't seen anyone consistent enough, it may appear with Mc or Perez but for now they have not identified him

Frazod
07-13-2008, 12:43 PM
Yeah, I follow. It's just been a long. LONG time when fans of other teams have wondered how much better they'd be if a Royals player was on their roster. Kind of strange, really.

Are you kidding? It happens every single time. Beltran, Dye, Damon, etc. :banghead:

StcChief
07-13-2008, 12:45 PM
Are you kidding? It happens every single time. Beltran, Dye, Damon, etc. :banghead:
Soria is on the trading block and he likely doesn't even know it.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:47 PM
with the George Brett (beside the invisible Denkinger) as your lone "hero" statue. I'd STFU this is Cardinal thread and noise from the AAA peanut gallary don't apply.

I'd be nice to have someone like Soria, (a real closer). Izzy done, and we haven't seen anyone consistent enough, it may appear with Mc or Perez but for now they have not identified him

Hey, it's not my fault your closer sucks balls. I'm not one of these "Royals beat the Cardinals in '85, so WOOOO" people; I know the Royals have much farther to go than the Cardinals. Un-bunch your panties. Your team blew a big lead last night. Happens to everybody.

PGM
07-13-2008, 12:47 PM
Thanks, but no thanks.

Oh come on...throw in Chris Duncan and an Izzy bobblehead LMAO

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:49 PM
Are you kidding? It happens every single time. Beltran, Dye, Damon, etc. :banghead:

OK, occasionally the Roayls do good in trades or actually grow a player, but not often. However, every single one of those guys have gone on to huge success, which is just another reason to :shake: at the Royals.

Damn, how good we have been if we kept that outfield together? Cheap bastards.

Marcellus
07-13-2008, 12:49 PM
Hey, it's not my fault your closer sucks balls. I'm not one of these "Royals beat the Cardinals in '85, so WOOOO" people; I know the Royals have much farther to go than the Cardinals. Un-bunch your panties. Your team blew a big lead last night. Happens to everybody.

Man, do we need a closer. The bullpen leads the league in blown saves, I think we are up to 22 or so. Had we pulled out 6 of those games (we didn't lose all 22 games but I bet at least half of them) we would be right with the Cubs and have the best record in baseball.

PGM
07-13-2008, 12:49 PM
Soria is on the trading block and he likely doesn't even know it.

He'll be wearing Red someday...it's just a matter of time :evil:

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:50 PM
Oh come on...throw in Chris Duncan and an Izzy bobblehead LMAO

I'll OK this deal if you can get VonneMarie on board with it. :D

Jewish Rabbi
07-13-2008, 12:55 PM
Man, do we need a closer. The bullpen leads the league in blown saves, I think we are up to 22 or so. Had we pulled out 6 of those games (we didn't lose all 22 games but I bet at least half of them) we would be right with the Cubs and have the best record in baseball.

I agree 22 is rediculous, but it's a deceiving stat, as we recorded 2 blown saves last night. It sounds worse than it actually is, but still pathetic.

StcChief
07-13-2008, 12:56 PM
He'll be wearing Red someday...it's just a matter of time :evil: but....he'd get rocked because the American League is sooooo much better :rolleyes:

PGM
07-13-2008, 01:07 PM
Tie game 4-4.

PGM
07-13-2008, 01:37 PM
9-6 Cards...Miles raping Pirate pitching

PGM
07-13-2008, 02:05 PM
Marmol added to the all star roster to replace Wood even though he has been pathetic in June and July and has an ERA over 4 at the moment :shake:

StcChief
07-13-2008, 02:43 PM
We got 2-3 from Pirates should have been all 3....

Jewish Rabbi
07-13-2008, 03:34 PM
We got 2-3 from Pirates should have been all 3....

You're right it should have been all three...but if we take 2/3 in every series and don't make the playoffs, that's not our fault.

CoMoChief
07-13-2008, 04:39 PM
**** STL AND THEIR BEER.

Subterranean Alien
07-13-2008, 05:18 PM
I'm just thrilled that there is a St. Louis Cardinals thread on a Kansas City Chiefs website. I think I'll go start a Kansas City Royals thread on a St. louis Rams website to even the score.

Frazod
07-13-2008, 05:22 PM
I'm just thrilled that there is a St. Louis Cardinals thread on a Kansas City Chiefs website. I think I'll go start a Kansas City Royals thread on a St. louis Rams website to even the score.

Be sure to go f#ck yourself as well.

Subterranean Alien
07-13-2008, 05:38 PM
If I didn't hate baseball, I wouldn't have said anything. So really, I don't care. I hate Kansas more than you do, and I live here.

Marcellus
07-13-2008, 05:43 PM
If I didn't hate baseball, I wouldn't have said anything. So really, I don't care. I hate Kansas more than you do, and I live here.

If you hate baseball, and wouldn't have said anything otherwise, why go to a baseball thread to talk smack? Seems like you went out of your way to let your feelings known. :shrug:

Frazod
07-13-2008, 05:43 PM
There are fans here who root for football, baseball and various college teams from Missouri, Kansas, and surrounding states in every direction. If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Skip Towne
07-13-2008, 07:03 PM
I'm just thrilled that there is a St. Louis Cardinals thread on a Kansas City Chiefs website. I think I'll go start a Kansas City Royals thread on a St. louis Rams website to even the score.

It doesn't seem to be bothering anyone else. Learn to use "Ignore this thread".

StcChief
07-13-2008, 08:55 PM
It doesn't seem to be bothering anyone else. Learn to use "Ignore this thread".well.....
he can KMA way off base.

good deal where ever he goes DumB ****

BigRedChief
07-13-2008, 09:25 PM
If I didn't hate baseball, I wouldn't have said anything. So really, I don't care. I hate Kansas more than you do, and I live here.
As you can see most of the people posting in this thread are long time members of the Planet with years of posting about the Chiefs on this BB. Your a n00b. Just ignore the thread.

smittysbar
07-13-2008, 10:57 PM
Missed the games this weekend. Seems the Cards are finally scoring some runs.

Cubs lost today, 4 1/2 back

Frazod
07-13-2008, 11:06 PM
Missed the games this weekend. Seems the Cards are finally scoring some runs.

Cubs lost today, 4 1/2 back

Be glad you missed that abortion yesterday. We should be 3 1/2 games back.

PGM
07-14-2008, 10:23 AM
Man this thread sure got some people's panties in a bunch which means it was an even better idea than I originally thought. Good job BRC.

PGM
07-14-2008, 10:28 AM
So, all things considered I'm very happy where the team is at the allstar break. Even though Saturday's game blew, going into the break leading the wild card is better then expected for this season. Hopefully, they stay the course and can make it to postseason play without having to give up any young players of value.

BigRedChief
07-14-2008, 10:30 AM
From the St. Louis paper
--------------------------------------------------------------

How many among us would have honestly predicted that the Cardinals would be 10 games over .500 at the break and possess the NL's second-best record? Or that the Cardinals could make these advances despite having to put 17 players on the disabled list, including team MVP Albert Pujols, No. 1 starter Adam Wainwright and all-time franchise saves leader Jason Isringhausen? The rehabbing former Cy Young award winner, Chris Carpenter, hasn't thrown a pitch.

Offseason signee Matt Clement (shoulder) hasn't surfaced because of decreased velocity.

Mark Mulder sadly unraveled again. And yet the Cardinals have defied the adversity and the forecasts to grind their way into postseason contention. And this was supposed to be a season of rebuilding, retooling, revamping, etc. Why?

Several reasons, in no particular order:
1. Pitching coach Dave Duncan's rotation has surprisingly held up for a 40-23 record and a 4.13 ERA. Year after year, Duncan squeezes terrific results from makeshift rotations.
2. Kyle Lohse, who hasn't lost since May 8, is 11-2 with a 3.39 ERA.
3. Breakout power seasons from Ryan Ludwick and Rick Ankiel, who have combined for 41 homers and 115 RBIs. Last season Cardinals outfielders produced 68 homers in 162 games. This year, through 96 games, the outfielders already have launched 53 homers.
4. Third baseman Troy Glaus has 15 homers and 59 RBIs in 94 games played. Last season the Cardinals received only 12 homers and 77 RBIs from seven players who manned the third-base position over 162 games.
5. Dramatically improved defense.

Don't forget Aaron Miles, batting .317. Or Skip Schumaker, who has done a fine job as a leadoff man and is hitting .339 against righthanded pitching. Or catcher Yadier Molina's impressive development as a hitter; he's batting .339 since April 23.

Of course, La Russa is the fixed axis. All things Cardinal revolve around him. He gives this team its toughness, its personality.

At the break, the Cardinals should exhale and take a bow.
And then it's back to work.

BigRedChief
07-17-2008, 06:44 AM
From the "official" Cardinals website. Looks like there will be no deals for more players. Pujols publically at least is okay with it.

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<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pST. LOUIS -- As the Cardinals begin the second half of the season -- or, more accurately, </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">the final 40 percent -- they're well ahead of all but the most optimistic preseason </st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on">predictions. They're very much within sniffing distance of the National League C</st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">ntral-leading Cubs, and locked in a fight with the Brewers for the NL Wild Card. </st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on"></st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on">They Cardinals have done it by playing a style of baseball that has won over many skeptical </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">fans. They've been an entertaining club to watch, and on the rare occasions when they've </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">been blown out, they've come back strong the next day. Twelve times they've lost the opener </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">of a three-game series, and nine times they've come back to win the series. </st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on"></st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on">All while playing at one point or another without Albert Pujols, Yadier Molina, Adam </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">Wainwright, Todd Wellemeyer and Jason Isringhausen, among plenty of other disabled-list </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">denizens. For the second year in a row, St. Louis has taken punch after punch. </st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on"></st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on">This time </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">around, though, the Redbirds have kept their heads well above water. </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">"I think if we had [just] survived, we'd be doing good," said manager Tony La Russa. "I </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">think 10 [games over .500] is a little bit of thrive. </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">"We've played short quite a bit. Ten over is a decent number." </st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on"></st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on">In the coming weeks, though, this trying season is likely to define itself. The hope is </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">that the returns of Wainwright and Chris Carpenter, and returns to form by Wellemeyer and I</st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">sringhausen, propel the Cardinals to greater heights. </st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on"></st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on">In such a scenario, a legitimately </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">good club gets even better. </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">The alternative, though, is that an undertalented club has scrapped and hustled its way to </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">success. If that's the case, then the strain of the first half and the drain of playing </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">undermanned will take its toll, and the Cards will fade in the second half. </st1:City><st1:City w:st="on">There's little secret which view holds sway in the St. Louis clubhouse. </st1:City>
<st1:City w:st="on">
I think we are mentally stronger every day, every series, every game that we play," said Pujols. "That's how you define a team. ... We're mentally pretty strong. That's something that we haven't had in this organization in a long, long time. We have a strong mind where we can bounce back right away the next day." In Pujols' eyes, the Cards' current roster is strong enough to stay in the hunt until the end.

"We're playing fine with the ballclub that we have," he said. "I think we have everything we need to win and to play with anybody. I think we just need to stay healthy. If we get Adam back, [Mark] Mulder hopefully back, we'll be in pretty good shape." They may have to do it with something very close to what they have now, because a big-name rental player is an extremely unlikely addition. The team's front office has littleinterest in dismantling an improving farm system for a two-month roster fix.

That doesn't mean the Cards will sit still, and in fact some upgrades are likely -- especially in the bullpen. But club management believed in March that this team was good enough to win, even when few others felt the same way. That's still the view in July.

Over the next 66 games, the rest of the league will find out if the Cards were right
</st1:City>

BigRedChief
07-17-2008, 08:01 AM
Post-Dispatch: You've had more than eight months to evaluate the front office after the most dramatic shake-up under your ownership group. Have you formed an impression? <O:p></O:p>
<SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript><!-- // beginDisplayAds("Frame1","","");// --></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.1 src="http://OAS-Central.RealMedia.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_jx.ads/www.stltoday.com/sports/cards/1175756746@Frame1" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

Bill DeWitt Jr.: I think Mo's done and continues to do an excellent job. It's working the way we had hoped it would. He's put a good team together that works well together utilizing all our resources. I'm happy with the way he's organized it, the operation of it and the results.

P-D: Any change of direction invites scrutiny. To what extent were you apprehensive about committing to such dramatic changes when the club had enjoyed a fairly extended run of success?

BDJ: I think any time there's change, by definition things are going to be different. It's important to get off to a good start when there's a change in the way you're operating and in the decision-making process. You can be confident in the individuals but you can't be sure of the effectiveness of the individuals involved. I've been very impressed by his effectiveness.

P-D: You've publicly made player development a priority. We've seen sweeping changes in staffing, greater commitment in the <ST1:place w:st="on">Caribbean</ST1:place> and more outside recognition for a number of your prospects. Are you satisfied?

BDJ: We're having a good year in the minor leagues. We're winning at Triple-A (<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:place w:st="on">Memphis</ST1:place></st1:City>) and pretty much up and down the line. The nice thing is we're winning as we've developed our players, by and large, as opposed to bringing in from other organizations as minor-league free agents. I thing you see various people and publications outside this organization recognizing the progress we're making. It's something we plan to sustain.

P-D: It can be argued the club has legitimate prospects at every level now. As you amass talent, what is your philosophy regarding keeping them for yourself or using them to address immediate needs on the major-league club?

BDJ: I believe the best way to use value in your system is either to bring it up and play it if there is need or, if you've got a surplus in certain areas, try to be in position to help you improve yourself through other means, such as trades. As far as winning the division, you look at whatever means you can to help yourself. When you look at the current race, we're interested if it's something that helps us now and in the future.

P-D: You've been fairly attuned to how outside publications and local media have depicted your scouting and player development. Obviously, it's a reason why you initially brought Jeff Luhnow into that side of things. What's your read now?

BDJ: The rating of our minor leagues by third parties has gone way up, and deservedly so. That class we drafted in '05…— many of those players are in Double-A and Triple-A now and performing well. (Colby) Rasmus is playing well now. (<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:place w:st="on">Bryan</ST1:place></st1:City>) <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:place w:st="on">Anderson</ST1:place></st1:City> is hitting well above .300 at Triple-A. (Mitchell) Boggs was in that draft; he's been up. (Chris) Perez was chosen in '06; he's been up. We've got solid prospects now at Double-A and Triple-A, which hasn't always been the case. Before it was difficult to project a time frame for many players at those levels to reach the major leagues. Now that's not the case.

P-D: Is there still a question about whether this team will have a "buy," "sell" or "hold" mentality as the non-waiver trade deadline approaches?

BDJ: I'm not sure the "buyers-vs.-sellers" is quite what it was a few years ago. Now there are a lot of teams that see themselves in contention for the wild card. A lot of the divisions are very competitive, so you don't see too many deals where teams are unloading good players at the deadline or moving players just to dump salary. The free-agent market the last several years has been very thin. I think that more and more you see teams tying up their top young players to extensions. That serves to dilute the market and in many cases diminish movement around the deadline. But there's always opportunity to improve through the trade process. Some years it's a question of degree.

P-D: You've said consistently this year that the club retained financial flexibility despite a payroll around $100 million. Is that still true?

BDJ: We've got room to add payroll if it would be something to improve our club. But, again, you don't see teams moving payroll just for the sake of moving payroll.

P-D: If an opportunity arose that would allow you to trade for a player or players that would add $1.5 million-$2 million in pro-rated payroll, could you digest it?

BDJ: Something like that would be very achievable.

P-D: Do you still allow yourself to act independently of your rivals after the Milwaukee Brewers acquired CC Sabathia and the Chicago Cubs traded for Rich Harden?

BDJ: We can't worry too much about what other clubs do. We have to be as good a team as we can possibly be, particularly when we're in the playoff hunt. I know Mo' is doing what he is doing to improve the club, trying to get out there and before the deadline to improve the club without sacrificing more talent than we receive in return. I know he's on the case. What we don't want to do is something we regret later. Clubs in the past have panicked and given up a lot and gotten back a little. We don't want to be in that position.

P-D: You've recently experienced injury and medical setbacks with several starting pitchers signed to multiyear deals. Mark Mulder hasn't won on his current ($13 million) deal. Neither has Chris Carpenter. Adam Wainwright is down. Does that make it even more unlikely that the club will commit beyond three years to a starting pitcher in the future?

BDJ: It's certainly case by case. But it's been pretty well-documented any time you sign a pitcher long term, you're taking on a substantial risk. The risk profile for a pitcher is significantly higher than for a position player. We know that. Wainwright was a younger player projected as central to the club's future and obviously his deal is not of the same magnitude as if he was a free agent.

P-D: How does this relate specifically to Mulder?

BDJ: When we did the two-year deal with an option we knew that it was a risk coming off of double surgery. It was incentive-driven to a large degree. We felt it warranted the risk because of the quality pitcher Mark had been. He's disappointed. We're disappointed. That's sometimes the way things go. There is risk. We were willing to take the risk at that time. Obviously at this time we don't have a lot of production from it.

P-D: Do you second-guess the move now?

BDJ: We believed, and he believed, that he would be healthy. We were told by those who evaluated him there was a high probability of him being healthy and having a chance to come back and be what he was again.

P-D: To what extent has the $13 million outlay hindered the club?

BDJ: We factored it into our payroll and budget like we do with every other player. We knew what we were getting into and the impact it would have on payroll.

P-D: How does any of this relate to the club's interest in negotiating with Kyle Lohse?

BDJ: He's certainly pitched very well and shown himself to be a quality starter. There's always a question about whether you talk about an extension at midseason or if it becomes a distraction.

P-D: Pitching coach Dave Duncan is among your pending "free agents." To what extent is it a priority to retain him?

BDJ: (Chuckling) There's no question that everybody involved here wants to keep Dave here. As it relates to his contract, I believe we'll talk about it and do whatever we can to keep him here. He's obviously an important part of the success we've had since he and Tony arrived.

P-D: You've taken some jabs about the halting progress of <ST1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ballpark</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Village</st1:PlaceType></ST1:place>. To some extent things have been out of your control. But to what degree can you offer assurances that it's going to happen?

BDJ: I feel confident that the Village will get developed and, from this point forward, in a more timely manner. The market's changed. There will be less residential and more office. We spent a lot of time on the Centene Project, which we thought if it could work would be a great addition to the Village and downtown. But it didn't work. It set us back a number of months. Now you look out there with the dirt and the water…— we need to get started with construction.

P-D: The club has offered assurances before on behalf of itself and the developer. Why should the public be convinced now?

BDJ: I think we have more certainty now because we know Centene won't be here and we were able to acquire the Bowling Hall of Fame site. That also had its own set of complications. If they hadn't chosen to move, we would have loved for them to be in Village. But in that location on that parcel, it wasn't ideal. That would have complicated things to move them to another part of the Village. We could have done it. But I think the way it worked out is probably a cleaner way for us to have certainty for that site and simplify the project.

P-D: Will the project be recognizable compared to its original rendering?

BDJ: I think it will be recognizable from the original vision. I don't think residential will be Phase I. It will be a second phase. I hope the residential market comes back to where it's viable.

P-D: Projections no longer call for completion of the project before the team hosts the All-Star Game next July. What can be done by then?

BDJ: The site will be a lot nicer for the All-Star Game. We'll definitely need to pave and set up an area for various All-Star activities. We were hoping to have it open for the All-Star Game but as of now that's not going to happen.

P-D: When can the city expect to see something coming out of the ground?

BDJ: I think toward the end of the year, the first of next year. I think you'll see some cosmetic things before then. But in terms of real construction ... nothing until later.

P-D: So, for you, is there still a question of whether <ST1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ballpark</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Village</st1:PlaceType></ST1:place> will be built?

BDJ: The Village will be built. It's just a matter of when it will be completed.

P-D: Back to the club. Much speculation has sprouted about how far the organization will go to acquire help for this year's team if it remains in contention. What does that say about the availability of premium prospects such as Colby Rasmus?

BDJ: They're must-haves for any organization. I don't think you can trade potential premium prospects unless you get premium players back. I think what a lot of clubs have done historically is trade premium prospects for less-than-premium return. I don't agree with a short-term fix. A lot of quick fixes don't work. Time goes on, you're down the road, and your former prospect is out there putting up All-Star numbers for someone else.

P-D: Is there a chance that Rasmus could play his first major-league game in another uniform?

BDJ: I don't anticipate that. No.

P-D: Does the team's success alter your expectations coming out of spring training? Many saw this as a transitional year for a team predicted to finish no better than third. How does that square for you?

BDJ: The expectation of March 30 was to be competitive and to have a chance to win the division. That hasn't changed. It's a great team to watch. I've gotten a lot of feedback from fans that this is really a fun team. They're young. They're energetic. They never give up. They've shown an ability to bounce back from a tough game. They're playing great defense. A lot of it is opportunity. We're not necessarily that young chronologically. But these are guys who have never really had an extended opportunity for one reason or another, whether they were with us or with somebody else. It's just a fun group to watch.

P-D: So you don't consider this team to be overachieving?

BDJ: Until the team played, because we had so many players playing regularly for the first time, I'm not sure everybody saw the potential upside. You still have to go out and play the games. They've done that. The most exciting thing for me to see is even when they've lost two or three in a row, they pop back. They don't get down. They come back and beat top clubs. They expect to win. That's pretty obvious.

P-D: It sounds as though you believed that last year's club grew stale.

BDJ: I don't know if 'stale' is the right word. But we wanted to get younger.

P-D: Fair to say you remain bullish?

BDJ: Things with the organization have gone extremely well. We've got good talent high up in the minor leagues. We've got some international kids playing very well. Our system is very much on the upswing. We've got a lot of top prospects. As for the second half, I think it's going to be great to watch. It's fun to be right there. We're the wild card as we speak and the division is within reach. I'm looking forward to what's ahead.<O:p></O:p>

Frazod
07-17-2008, 08:05 AM
I can't imagine why ANYBODY would want Isringhausen to do anything but go away at this point. He's done - he's been done for awhile. Much like Marquis, I think the one of the main reasons we won the World Series was because he DIDN'T pitch, and that was a couple of years ago.

Give him a lovely parting gift and swift kick out the clubhouse door. Enough already.

smittysbar
07-17-2008, 08:14 AM
We will just have to see about the front office. My biggest worry is that they win some this year and think they can do it every year with a sub par roster

StcChief
07-17-2008, 08:22 AM
Yeah. sounds like BPV is down the road, fix the hole for now pave or sod it for use as gathering area pre-game activities....

Should be a good one tonite, Cards/Padres... Lohse/Pevey

PGM
07-17-2008, 09:12 AM
I can't imagine why ANYBODY would want Isringhausen to do anything but go away at this point. He's done - he's been done for awhile. Much like Marquis, I think the one of the main reasons we won the World Series was because he DIDN'T pitch, and that was a couple of years ago.

Give him a lovely parting gift and swift kick out the clubhouse door. Enough already.

For some reason the coaching staff and the announcing crews have a serious hard on for Izzy. They act like he is still a good pitcher when in reality he has been garbage. It is quite sickening.

Frazod
07-17-2008, 09:21 AM
For some reason the coaching staff and the announcing crews have a serious hard on for Izzy. They act like he is still a good pitcher when in reality he has been garbage. It is quite sickening.

I understand that they know him personally and obviously like him. Much easier for us to call for his head than for them to actually cut it off.

But still.... it's not like he just had a couple of bad outings. He's either (a) sucked or (b) been hurt for a couple of years now. Friend or not, the business is WINNING, and he needs to go.

Miles
07-17-2008, 02:25 PM
But still.... it's not like he just had a couple of bad outings. He's either (a) sucked or (b) been hurt for a couple of years now. Friend or not, the business is WINNING, and he needs to go.

He is definitely not the same as last season and makes me wonder if his hip surgery was a temporary fix. I was willing to give him a chance when he came back off the DL a couple of weeks ago but he has only been slightly less shitty before he was shut down. At this point I would really like to see him only used when the Cards are up or down a bunch of runs.

StcChief
07-17-2008, 02:36 PM
He is definitely not the same as last season and makes me wonder if his hip surgery was a temporary fix. I was willing to give him a chance when he came back off the DL a couple of weeks ago but he has only been slightly less shitty before he was shut down. At this point I would really like to see him only used when the Cards are up or down a bunch of runs.Izzy scares me. quickly became Dave Veres.

should be good tonite. Going to Busch Lohse / Pevey :D

smittysbar
07-17-2008, 06:45 PM
Glaus with a HR off Peavy. Bottom 2nd 1 to 1

Frazod
07-17-2008, 07:13 PM
HR Ankiel 2-2, bottom 4th.

Marcellus
07-17-2008, 07:13 PM
Ankiel just went yard. 21 on the year. Amazing.

smittysbar
07-17-2008, 07:14 PM
Ankiel HR off of Peavy

smittysbar
07-17-2008, 07:14 PM
Gluas HR, back to back

Frazod
07-17-2008, 07:14 PM
Glaus with another HR, Cards take the lead 3-2 :rockon:

Marcellus
07-17-2008, 07:14 PM
Glaus hits another. He is on a tear the last week.

PGM
07-17-2008, 07:47 PM
Seems like the cards always hit Peavy.

Marcellus
07-17-2008, 08:08 PM
Mather with a HR. 4 solo HR's off Peavey.

PGM
07-17-2008, 08:32 PM
:shake: Here we go again 4-3, tying run on 2nd no outs.

thurman merman
07-17-2008, 08:38 PM
so franklin is in the game in the ninth, and isringhausen is in the bullpen?

smittysbar
07-17-2008, 08:39 PM
get this out!

smittysbar
07-17-2008, 08:41 PM
Cards take game 1. 4 to 3

PGM
07-17-2008, 08:52 PM
Well they hung on nice win...and a big :bravo: to Kyle Lohse...wow what a pickup he was for this season.

Buck
07-17-2008, 09:02 PM
Padres Suck, get over it.

Jewish Rabbi
07-17-2008, 10:14 PM
I was actually at the game tonight, and I was pretty disappointed. The crowd wasn't into the game at all, overall worst experience I've had at a Cardinals game. We'll see if it's any better tomorrow.

BigRedChief
07-18-2008, 07:24 AM
I can't imagine why ANYBODY would want Isringhausen to do anything but go away at this point. He's done - he's been done for awhile. Much like Marquis, I think the one of the main reasons we won the World Series was because he DIDN'T pitch, and that was a couple of years ago.

Give him a lovely parting gift and swift kick out the clubhouse door. Enough already.
Larussa loves to stick with players long after they become non-productive players.

Frazod
07-18-2008, 08:47 AM
Larussa loves to stick with players long after they become non-productive players.

Don't remind me. His endless mancrush on McGwire is probably the reason we have 10 world championships instead of 11. :banghead:

StcChief
07-18-2008, 08:48 AM
I was actually at the game tonight, and I was pretty disappointed. The crowd wasn't into the game at all, overall worst experience I've had at a Cardinals game. We'll see if it's any better tomorrow.
Right it did seem a little slow with crowd, Peavey does work quickly....

I was in 356.... nice breeze coming over the top.
little warm. good time. Crowd liked the 4 HRs.

Just glad Izzy was no where to be found in the end. :D

smittysbar
07-18-2008, 09:12 AM
Going to the game tomorrow. Will be in a suite. They are nice but the people who come are usually not in the least bit interested in the game. I always look down behind the dugout (were I used to sit a lot) and think those are my people. Same at AH, I sat in club level once and was looking down thinking, man wish I was down there. The free beer and food is a big plus though.

Frazod
07-18-2008, 09:25 AM
Looks like Carpenter will start for Springfield on Sunday. God, I hope that goes well. :grovel:

BigRedChief
07-18-2008, 09:54 AM
Looks like Carpenter will start for Springfield on Sunday. God, I hope that goes well. :grovel:
A healthy Carpenter/Wainright/Loshe/Looper would be some nice pitching to have in a playoff series.

StcChief
07-18-2008, 10:20 AM
A healthy Carpenter/Wainright/Loshe/Looper would be some nice pitching to have in a playoff series.

now just get middle/closer issues square we might have something. :thumb:

Frazod
07-18-2008, 10:25 AM
A healthy Carpenter/Wainright/Loshe/Looper would be some nice pitching to have in a playoff series.

Personally, if we get Carp back I'd prefer Wainwright as a closer. That worked out for us rather well the last time. It would also have the benefit of not overusing him coming back from this finger issue.

StcChief
07-18-2008, 10:30 AM
Personally, if we get Carp back I'd prefer Wainwright as a closer. That worked out for us rather well the last time. It would also have the benefit of not overusing him coming back from this finger issue.that would work well. I'm sure Duncan is considering easing Wainwright in.... Just hope Perez gets his control by Sept.

Frazod
07-18-2008, 10:32 AM
that would work well. I'm sure Duncan is considering easing Wainwright in.... Just hope Perez gets his control by Sept.

I just keep thinking where we'd be right now if we had a decent closer. 21 blown saves.... F#CK. :#

smittysbar
07-18-2008, 10:37 AM
now just get middle/closer issues square we might have something. :thumb:

Yes a VERY big concern

StcChief
07-18-2008, 10:40 AM
I just keep thinking where we'd be right now if we had a decent closer. 21 blown saves.... F#CK. :#

the debate from 356 last nite.... is that Izzy accross the way in bullpen. Please say it ain't so. All we could see (no bonoculars or radio), we were worried. I was sure it was Franklin . Thank God.

POND_OF_RED
07-18-2008, 10:41 AM
A healthy Carpenter/Wainright/Loshe/Looper would be some nice pitching to have in a playoff series.

It would be decent but I don't see any team making the trade to get all of them. Most of the playoff contenders have a solid rotation at this point.

BigRedChief
07-18-2008, 10:51 AM
It would be decent but I don't see any team making the trade to get all of them. Most of the playoff contenders have a solid rotation at this point.
Pretty funny.ROFL

But what makes you think your cubbies aren't going to choke this year? Why is this year different?

POND_OF_RED
07-18-2008, 11:03 AM
Pretty funny.ROFL

But what makes you think your cubbies aren't going to choke this year? Why is this year different?

Never said we won't. I'm pretty confident in at least making the playoffs but after that I have no expectations. Obviously as a homer I like our chances. The rotation is now one of the best in the league with the Harden trade and the offense has been producing well even without Soriano. If we can stay healthy I really like our chances but I've said many times before. I'm just excited for the pennant race to heat up. Nothing better than tight pennant races to pass the time until football season. Go Cubs Go! :thumb:

BigRedChief
07-18-2008, 11:21 AM
Never said we won't. I'm pretty confident in at least making the playoffs but after that I have no expectations. Obviously as a homer I like our chances. The rotation is now one of the best in the league with the Harden trade and the offense has been producing well even without Soriano. If we can stay healthy I really like our chances but I've said many times before. I'm just excited for the pennant race to heat up. Nothing better than tight pennant races to pass the time until football season. Go Cubs Go! :thumb:
See thats the difference between Cub fans and Cardinal fans after 100 years of futility. You expect the team to implode at some point. Or there is a likely chance it will happen.

As you can read here in this thread Cardinal fans will be very disappointed if we don't make the playoffs and a serious run at the WS in 2009 or 2010. We expect that.

StcChief
07-18-2008, 11:29 AM
See thats the difference between Cub fans and Cardinal fans after 100 years of futility. You expect the team to implode at some point. Or there is a likely chance it will happen.

As you can read here in this thread Cardinal fans will be very disappointed if we don't make the playoffs and a serious run at the WS in 2009 or 2010. We expect that. this damn tradition of being competitive and winning :hmmm: .... maybe that's the difference between the teams and fans. :shrug: