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View Full Version : Money Oil Speculation... why gas prices are so high. Interesting read.


Ari Chi3fs
07-11-2008, 12:15 PM
<table bgcolor="#fffeea" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="598"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" width="376">An open letter to all airline customers</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" bgcolor="#bbccd9"><img height="1" width="40"></td></tr></tbody></table> <table align="center" bgcolor="#fffeea" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="598"><tbody><tr><td width="15"><img border="0" height="1" width="15"></td> <td>
Dear Mr. Ari G. Chi3fs,

Last week, crude oil hit an all-time high of $146, and the skyrocketing cost of fuel is impacting our customers, our employees, the communities we serve, and the economy as a whole. United, and the majority of other major U.S. airlines, are asking our most loyal customers to join us in pushing for legislation to add more transparency and disclosure in the oil markets. Please see the attached open letter from the leaders of the U.S. airline industry.

<table bgcolor="#bbccd9" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="562"> <tbody> <tr> <td> <table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="560"> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="3"><img alt="Airline logos" border="0" height="83" hspace="10" vspace="20" width="540"></td></tr> <tr> <td width="15"><img border="0" height="10" width="15"></td> <td width="510">
An Open letter to All Airline Customers:

Our country is facing a possible sharp economic downturn because of skyrocketing oil and fuel prices, but by pulling together, we can all do something to help now.

For airlines, ultra-expensive fuel means thousands of lost jobs and severe reductions in air service to both large and small communities. To the broader economy, oil prices mean slower activity and widespread economic pain. This pain can be alleviated, and that is why we are taking the extraordinary step of writing this joint letter to our customers. Since high oil prices are partly a response to normal market forces, the nation needs to focus on increased energy supplies and conservation. However, there is another side to this story because normal market forces are being dangerously amplified by poorly regulated market speculation.

Twenty years ago, 21 percent of oil contracts were purchased by speculators who trade oil on paper with no intention of ever taking delivery. Today, oil speculators purchase 66 percent of all oil futures contracts, and that reflects just the transactions that are known. Speculators buy up large amounts of oil and then sell it to each other again and again. A barrel of oil may trade 20-plus times before it is delivered and used; the price goes up with each trade and consumers pick up the final tab. Some market experts estimate that current prices reflect as much as $30 to $60 per barrel in unnecessary speculative costs.

Over seventy years ago, Congress established regulations to control excessive, largely unchecked market speculation and manipulation. However, over the past two decades, these regulatory limits have been weakened or removed. We believe that restoring and enforcing these limits, along with several other modest measures, will provide more disclosure, transparency and sound market oversight. Together, these reforms will help cool the over-heated oil market and permit the economy to prosper.

The nation needs to pull together to reform the oil markets and solve this growing problem.

We need your help. Get more information and contact Congress by visiting www.StopOilSpeculationNow.com (http://www.stopoilspeculationnow.com/).

</td> <td width="15"><img border="0" height="10" width="15"></td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="560"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" width="10">
</td> <td valign="top" width="172">Robert Fornaro
Chairman,
President and CEO
AirTran Airways</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Bill Ayer
Chairman,
President and CEO
Alaska Airlines, Inc.
</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td width="172">Gerard J. Arpey
Chairman,
President and CEO
American Airlines, Inc.</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="6"><img border="0" height="10" width="25"></td></tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td valign="center" width="172">Lawrence W. Kellner
Chairman and CEO
Continental Airlines, Inc.</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="center" width="172">Richard Anderson
CEO
Delta Air Lines, Inc.</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td width="172">Mark B. Dunkerley
President and CEO
Hawaiian Airlines, Inc.</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="6"><img border="0" height="10" width="25"></td></tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td width="172">Dave Barger
CEO
JetBlue Airways
Corporation</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Timothy E. Hoeksema
Chairman,
President and CEO
Midwest Airlines</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Douglas M. Steenland
President and CEO
Northwest Airlines, Inc.</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="6"><img border="0" height="10" width="25"></td></tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td valign="top" width="172">Gary Kelly
Chairman and CEO
Southwest Airlines Co.</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Glenn F. Tilton
Chairman,
President and CEO
United Airlines, Inc.</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Douglas Parker
Chairman and CEO
US Airways Group, Inc. </td></tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td width="172">
</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td width="172">
</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td width="172">
</td></tr></tbody></table>

(http://www.unitedoffers.com/600-1sape/101395/235995/dd103ce6d13f5fef0b0b13ee02bf53b5)
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Ari Chi3fs
07-11-2008, 12:16 PM
A barrel of oil may trade 20-plus times before it is delivered and used; the price goes up with each trade and consumers pick up the final tab. Some market experts estimate that current prices reflect as much as $30 to $60 per barrel in unnecessary speculative costs.

beavis
07-11-2008, 12:53 PM
Can come up with all he excuses you want, we've got no one to blame for this mess but ourselves.

Deberg_1990
07-11-2008, 01:05 PM
Can come up with all he excuses you want, we've got no one to blame for this mess but ourselves.


It takes years for a paradigm shift. Why should we have tried to change when the price of gas was pretty stable for the past 2 or 3 decades?

Change will come, but its going to take time...

markk
07-11-2008, 01:10 PM
First of all, I doubt the authenticity of that email.

Second, I wonder what political organization is really behind this supposed citizen's group? Who might want the government to increasingly regulate commodities trading?

Simply Red
07-11-2008, 01:12 PM
<table bgcolor="#fffeea" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="598"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" width="376">An open letter to all airline customers</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" bgcolor="#bbccd9"><img height="1" width="40"></td></tr></tbody></table> <table align="center" bgcolor="#fffeea" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="598"><tbody><tr><td width="15"><img border="0" height="1" width="15"></td> <td>
Dear Mr. Ari G. Chi3fs,

Last week, crude oil hit an all-time high of $146, and the skyrocketing cost of fuel is impacting our customers, our employees, the communities we serve, and the economy as a whole. United, and the majority of other major U.S. airlines, are asking our most loyal customers to join us in pushing for legislation to add more transparency and disclosure in the oil markets. Please see the attached open letter from the leaders of the U.S. airline industry.

<table bgcolor="#bbccd9" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="562"> <tbody> <tr> <td> <table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="560"> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="3"><img alt="Airline logos" border="0" height="83" hspace="10" vspace="20" width="540"></td></tr> <tr> <td width="15"><img border="0" height="10" width="15"></td> <td width="510">
An Open letter to All Airline Customers:

Our country is facing a possible sharp economic downturn because of skyrocketing oil and fuel prices, but by pulling together, we can all do something to help now.

For airlines, ultra-expensive fuel means thousands of lost jobs and severe reductions in air service to both large and small communities. To the broader economy, oil prices mean slower activity and widespread economic pain. This pain can be alleviated, and that is why we are taking the extraordinary step of writing this joint letter to our customers. Since high oil prices are partly a response to normal market forces, the nation needs to focus on increased energy supplies and conservation. However, there is another side to this story because normal market forces are being dangerously amplified by poorly regulated market speculation.

Twenty years ago, 21 percent of oil contracts were purchased by speculators who trade oil on paper with no intention of ever taking delivery. Today, oil speculators purchase 66 percent of all oil futures contracts, and that reflects just the transactions that are known. Speculators buy up large amounts of oil and then sell it to each other again and again. A barrel of oil may trade 20-plus times before it is delivered and used; the price goes up with each trade and consumers pick up the final tab. Some market experts estimate that current prices reflect as much as $30 to $60 per barrel in unnecessary speculative costs.

Over seventy years ago, Congress established regulations to control excessive, largely unchecked market speculation and manipulation. However, over the past two decades, these regulatory limits have been weakened or removed. We believe that restoring and enforcing these limits, along with several other modest measures, will provide more disclosure, transparency and sound market oversight. Together, these reforms will help cool the over-heated oil market and permit the economy to prosper.

The nation needs to pull together to reform the oil markets and solve this growing problem.

We need your help. Get more information and contact Congress by visiting www.StopOilSpeculationNow.com (http://www.stopoilspeculationnow.com/).

</td> <td width="15"><img border="0" height="10" width="15"></td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="560"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" width="10">
</td> <td valign="top" width="172">Robert Fornaro
Chairman,
President and CEO
AirTran Airways</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Bill Ayer
Chairman,
President and CEO
Alaska Airlines, Inc.
</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td width="172">Gerard J. Arpey
Chairman,
President and CEO
American Airlines, Inc.</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="6"><img border="0" height="10" width="25"></td></tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td valign="center" width="172">Lawrence W. Kellner
Chairman and CEO
Continental Airlines, Inc.</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="center" width="172">Richard Anderson
CEO
Delta Air Lines, Inc.</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td width="172">Mark B. Dunkerley
President and CEO
Hawaiian Airlines, Inc.</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="6"><img border="0" height="10" width="25"></td></tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td width="172">Dave Barger
CEO
JetBlue Airways
Corporation</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Timothy E. Hoeksema
Chairman,
President and CEO
Midwest Airlines</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Douglas M. Steenland
President and CEO
Northwest Airlines, Inc.</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="6"><img border="0" height="10" width="25"></td></tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td valign="top" width="172">Gary Kelly
Chairman and CEO
Southwest Airlines Co.</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Glenn F. Tilton
Chairman,
President and CEO
United Airlines, Inc.</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td valign="top" width="172">Douglas Parker
Chairman and CEO
US Airways Group, Inc. </td></tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td width="172">
</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td width="172">
</td> <td width="10"><img border="0" height="10" width="10"> </td> <td width="172">
</td></tr></tbody></table>

(http://www.unitedoffers.com/600-1sape/101395/235995/dd103ce6d13f5fef0b0b13ee02bf53b5)
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Did you really use your chief planet user name/

John_Wayne
07-11-2008, 01:24 PM
In the mid 90's congress passed a bill to allow drilling in ANWAR and Clinton vetoed it. That and other drilling that we should have been doing for the past 10 years would have gone a long way to avoiding this mess. The greenies won't allow us to build more nuclear facilities which is another piece of the puzzle. The libs and greenies have caused this problem and they still don't get it. They'd love nothing more than for gas to be $10 a gallon.

Boon
07-11-2008, 01:29 PM
How would Alaskan oil lower the price? It seems to me it doesn't matter which hole in the ground the oil comes from, the price is sky-high. I don't buy the drill ANWAR to lower the price BS. I think it pure greed.

Donger
07-11-2008, 01:30 PM
I hate Big Airline.

Baconeater
07-11-2008, 01:30 PM
I'm trying to figure out why I should give a crap that the airline industry is struggling.

Donger
07-11-2008, 01:31 PM
A barrel of oil may trade 20-plus times before it is delivered and used; the price goes up with each trade and consumers pick up the final tab. Some market experts estimate that current prices reflect as much as $30 to $60 per barrel in unnecessary speculative costs.

I'd say closer to $60.00 - $70.00.

Ari Chi3fs
07-11-2008, 01:33 PM
so the price of oil, is really around 70 a barrel, but these ****ing speculation pricks are more than DOUBLING our price of fuel?

What a bunch of greedy ****s.

Simply Red
07-11-2008, 01:33 PM
I hate Big Airline.

Me to

Simply Red
07-11-2008, 01:33 PM
so the price of oil, is really around 70 a barrel, but these ****ing speculation pricks are more than DOUBLING our price of fuel?

What a bunch of greedy ****s.

you just have it all figured out don't you?

Donger
07-11-2008, 01:34 PM
so the price of oil, is really around 70 a barrel, but these ****ing speculation pricks are more than DOUBLING our price of fuel?

What a bunch of greedy ****s.

Yes.

Simply Red
07-11-2008, 01:34 PM
so the price of oil, is really around 70 a barrel, but these ****ing speculation pricks are more than DOUBLING our price of fuel?

What a bunch of greedy ****s.

why arent you doing the job? I mean if you are so perfect. apply for the job.. you'd get hired right?

Deberg_1990
07-11-2008, 01:34 PM
I hate Big Speculation

Ari Chi3fs
07-11-2008, 01:36 PM
why arent you doing the job? I mean if you are so perfect. apply for the job.. you'd get hired right?

Your shtick sucks.

markk
07-11-2008, 01:40 PM
I hate Big Speculation

i thought it was big oil who was screwing us not these guys

Deberg_1990
07-11-2008, 01:43 PM
i thought it was big oil who was screwing us not these guys

To be honest, its a little bit of everything.

markk
07-11-2008, 01:45 PM
To be honest, its a little bit of everything.

if speculation is 60 or 70 per barrel, that means the true price is down at 80 or so. perfectly manageable. so how is big oil screwing us

markk
07-11-2008, 02:24 PM
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/political-pictures-sons-iraq-council-gas-prices.jpg

Stewie
07-11-2008, 02:27 PM
Blaming speculators is parochial and simple minded. It grabs headlines and politicians love it because it shifts the blame from the person in the mirror.

Pitt Gorilla
07-11-2008, 02:36 PM
In the mid 90's congress passed a bill to allow drilling in ANWAR and Clinton vetoed it. That and other drilling that we should have been doing for the past 10 years would have gone a long way to avoiding this mess. The greenies won't allow us to build more nuclear facilities which is another piece of the puzzle. The libs and greenies have caused this problem and they still don't get it. They'd love nothing more than for gas to be $10 a gallon.Really? Exactly what impact would ANWAR have had?

tmax63
07-11-2008, 02:41 PM
And it allows the libs to sidestep the simple fact of supply and demand that more production decreases price. Address the speculation so that maybe for a few years we will still have $100 oil and start ramping up production to the point where we don't import as much oil and we still can have reasonable priced oil for the next 25 years while the technology on alternative energies can be perfected. It's not that hard unless your getting rich from lobbyists and can't vote for what is good for the country.

asdf
07-11-2008, 02:47 PM
Oil Speculation... why gas prices are so high.

not according to this guy... I'm so confused :deevee:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121573804530744613.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

SBK
07-11-2008, 02:51 PM
I got this same email from Air Tran.

If the speculation thing is right you can imagine a "Miami condo meltdown" soon to come in the oil market.

CrazyPhuD
07-11-2008, 02:58 PM
Well lets look at history since no one in the world ever learns from it.....just have to go a couple years back.....

First in 1999-2000 we had the stock market speculation, it was crazy and irrational with little or no basis in reality....come 2001.....crash....

Well people still had money to invest now where would they put it to give them good returns?....Hey lets look at land...it always goes up in price....enter real estate boom....once again crazy and irrational with little basis in reality.....come 2007....boom....bye bye housing....

But there are still people who have money...where do they put it...hey look at commodities...they're generating good returns we should put our money there....enter irrational rise in commodities pricing......

So who knows what they next line in the story is?

Lonewolf Ed
07-11-2008, 03:06 PM
I hate Big Airline.

I particularly hate United Airlines...

Stewie
07-11-2008, 03:09 PM
People, People. Speculators are not causing $145 oil. There's a constant supply that is being overwhelmed by huge demand in Asia. Get used to it.

Stewie
07-11-2008, 03:11 PM
Well lets look at history since no one in the world ever learns from it.....just have to go a couple years back.....

First in 1999-2000 we had the stock market speculation, it was crazy and irrational with little or no basis in reality....come 2001.....crash....

Well people still had money to invest now where would they put it to give them good returns?....Hey lets look at land...it always goes up in price....enter real estate boom....once again crazy and irrational with little basis in reality.....come 2007....boom....bye bye housing....

But there are still people who have money...where do they put it...hey look at commodities...they're generating good returns we should put our money there....enter irrational rise in commodities pricing......

So who knows what they next line in the story is?

Commodities are a whole different ball game and totally irrelevant to your other statements.

markk
07-11-2008, 03:12 PM
Commodities are a whole different ball game and totally irrelevant to your other statements.

How's that? A bubble is a bubble.

mrbiggz
07-11-2008, 03:14 PM
Michael greenberger sums it up pretty well below.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Michael+greenberger&hl=en&sitesearch=#

Stewie
07-11-2008, 03:14 PM
How's that? A bubble is a bubble.

Who said commodities were in a bubble? Commodities are traded in $ worldwide. Think about it.

Stewie
07-11-2008, 03:16 PM
Michael greenberger sums it up pretty well below.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Michael+greenberger&hl=en&sitesearch=#

Yep, he has all the answers. Genious!

markk
07-11-2008, 03:18 PM
Who said commodities were in a bubble? Commodities are traded in $ worldwide. Think about it.

is that right, because i was under the impression futures contracts were traded that entitled the bearer to buy a certain quantity of oil for a specific price on a specific date, and that people traded these things on some sort of a "futures market" and that the value of them could increase and decrease like any other security.

SBK
07-11-2008, 03:18 PM
What are the actual % of increased usage of oil? I read recently it's only gone up 1%.....

Stewie
07-11-2008, 03:24 PM
is that right, because i was under the impression futures contracts were traded that entitled the bearer to buy a certain quantity of oil for a specific price on a specific date, and that people traded these things on some sort of a "futures market" and that the value of them could increase and decrease like any other security.

Commodities are traded in US dollars which are worth less and less every year. The dollar was at 121 in the early 2000s, now it's around 70.

Futures markets are contracts between two individuals, one taking the price going up, one taking the price going down. They put their money where their mouth is and take into consideration all aspects of oil demand.

markk
07-11-2008, 03:27 PM
What are the actual % of increased usage of oil? I read recently it's only gone up 1%.....

http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/earth/images/final-images/o-world-oil-consumption-by-.gif

SBK
07-11-2008, 04:00 PM
http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/earth/images/final-images/o-world-oil-consumption-by-.gif

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/10/business/10oil.php

The agency forecast in its monthly Oil Market Report that global oil consumption would average 86.8 million barrels a day in 2008, or 70,000 barrels a day below the estimate that it made in its last report. Still, that would make overall demand 0.9 percent higher than in 2007.


So if oil consumption is up 0.9% compared to 2007, what makes for the 80%+ rise in the cost per barrel of fuel? It certainly isn't increased consumption.....

RJ
07-11-2008, 04:46 PM
First of all, I doubt the authenticity of that email.

Second, I wonder what political organization is really behind this supposed citizen's group? Who might want the government to increasingly regulate commodities trading?




The email is real, apparently.


http://businessshrink.biz/psychologyofbusiness/2008/07/10/airlines-launch-national-ad-campaign-to-stop-oil-speculation/

Dayze
07-11-2008, 05:33 PM
I got this same email from Air Tran.

If the speculation thing is right you can imagine a "Miami condo meltdown" soon to come in the oil market.

What is the 'Miami Condo meltdown' you speak of? I'm not being sarcastic; I've not heard of it.

......sounds bad though.

lawrenceRaider
07-11-2008, 05:58 PM
http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/earth/images/final-images/o-world-oil-consumption-by-.gif

Wow, that's utterly worthless. It PROJECTS usage beyong the year 2000. Last I checked, we are in the year 2008.

Thanks for playing.

Also, while peak oil WILL happen at some point in the future, we are a long way from it now. There are plenty of oil resources that are not tapped, ANWAR, Florida coasts.

Donger
07-11-2008, 06:18 PM
Wow. I just read the July 8 STEO. Wanna see something scary?

Consumption. World oil consumption continues to grow despite 7 consecutive years of rising prices. Preliminary data indicate that world oil consumption during the first half of 2008 rose by roughly 520,000 bbl/d compared with year-earlier levels. Compared to year-ago levels, this increase reflects a 170,000-bbl/d gain in the first quarter, followed by an 870,000-bbl/d increase in the second quarter. A 760,000-bbl/d decline in consumption in OECD countries during the first half of 2008, mainly concentrated in the United States, was more than offset by a 1.3-million-bbl/d increase in consumption in non-OECD nations led by China and the Middle East (World Oil Consumption). World oil consumption is projected to rise by almost 1.2 million bbl/d during the second half of the year, reflecting the impact of higher expected prices, lower economic growth, and growing pressure in some countries (such as India, Malaysia, Indonesia, and China) to ease price subsidies, which could dampen consumption growth. Global consumption in 2009 is expected to increase by 1.4 million bbl/d because of upward revisions in projected 2009 economic growth in some regions, such as Latin America. If financial strains in the United States spread to foreign nations, depressing economic growth, consumption growth would also slow.

Donger
07-11-2008, 06:23 PM
Ick.

Saudi plans to raise production from 9.4 million bbl/d in June to 9.7 million bbl/d in July, a 27-year high for the nation, have not resulted in an easing of prices. Supply losses in Nigeria and heightened tensions between Iran and Israel raised new concerns about future supplies. Moreover, while the Saudi action adds supplies to the market, remaining available surplus production capacity during the third quarter is at the low level of about 1.2 million bbl/d, all concentrated in Saudi Arabia.

Discuss Thrower
07-11-2008, 11:28 PM
And finally, my rational-poster sense kicks in and I say this:

Prices are rising because we're running out of Black Saudi Water, and the Powers That Be know this. There is not enough cheap oil to go around anymore, just like there's going to be less and less cheap metals around too.

Jayhawkerman2001
07-11-2008, 11:53 PM
Can come up with all he excuses you want, we've got no one to blame for this mess but ourselves.

yup, its easy to play ignorant when things are going so well... Anybody with half a brain should think to themselves sometimes about the possibility of no oil. Yah theres a lot of oil out there, but at the continued rate that we consume it, it's bound to run out eventually. And why nobody did anything in the past is beyond me.

They say curiosity killed the cat? Yah right... Ignorance ****ing killed the cat...

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2008, 12:15 AM
Here's an idea. How about we stop investing on the wizardry, and fortune telling that we refer to as "Futures"? If Congress passes that, gas will be back to $2 a gallon in 30 days. Oil futures is an Enron/Worldcom scam, only on a much higher level. You heard it here first.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4814426#post4814426

SBK
07-12-2008, 01:26 AM
What is the 'Miami Condo meltdown' you speak of? I'm not being sarcastic; I've not heard of it.

......sounds bad though.

From about 2000 to 2005 there was rampant speculation in the Miami condo market. People were literally camping outside all night, or even days, to get the "right" to buy a condo when a project opened up.

Once they had a contract in hand the selling would commence. Condos were selling several times before the project was even completed, sometimes going up 300%+. Banks were giving out free money so even taxi drivers had no problem scoring a 700k loan to buy this new condo "investment."

One day sense returned and everyone stopped buying. This was 2005. Miami is currently in a building BOOM, something like 20,000+ units coming into the market this year, which is more than double what's already sitting out there. Problem is nobody is buying.....

Prices have already dropped something like 20-30% and nobody is buying. Most people are expecting prices to drop more than 50% from the peak. Auctions now are bringing 50% of what people thought was retail and the people buying (few) are wondering if they're getting in the game too soon.

Funny thing is these condos weren't selling to people who were actually going to live there, it was a get rich quick speculation boom that went bust before the developers, and bankers figured it out. LMAO

Now there's tons of new units coming online, tons and tons and tons of foreclosures, and tons of empty buildings with developers and soon to be banks going under.

Jayhawkerman2001
07-12-2008, 02:16 AM
From about 2000 to 2005 there was rampant speculation in the Miami condo market. People were literally camping outside all night, or even days, to get the "right" to buy a condo when a project opened up.

Once they had a contract in hand the selling would commence. Condos were selling several times before the project was even completed, sometimes going up 300%+. Banks were giving out free money so even taxi drivers had no problem scoring a 700k loan to buy this new condo "investment."

One day sense returned and everyone stopped buying. This was 2005. Miami is currently in a building BOOM, something like 20,000+ units coming into the market this year, which is more than double what's already sitting out there. Problem is nobody is buying.....

Prices have already dropped something like 20-30% and nobody is buying. Most people are expecting prices to drop more than 50% from the peak. Auctions now are bringing 50% of what people thought was retail and the people buying (few) are wondering if they're getting in the game too soon.

Funny thing is these condos weren't selling to people who were actually going to live there, it was a get rich quick speculation boom that went bust before the developers, and bankers figured it out. LMAO

Now there's tons of new units coming online, tons and tons and tons of foreclosures, and tons of empty buildings with developers and soon to be banks going under.

my grandma and her husband have a condo in miami and when i was down there around christmas thats all they talked about. Their friends, which live 9 months there and 3 months back in their home country Germany, have the penthouse estate located where you can literally throw a rock into the ocean. Yah, they're beyond ****ing rich. But anyways, from what i understand, the housing market in general in miami has been hit the worst out of any other city in the country.

SBK
07-12-2008, 02:51 AM
my grandma and her husband have a condo in miami and when i was down there around christmas thats all they talked about. Their friends, which live 9 months there and 3 months back in their home country Germany, have the penthouse estate located where you can literally throw a rock into the ocean. Yah, they're beyond ****ing rich. But anyways, from what i understand, the housing market in general in miami has been hit the worst out of any other city in the country.

The markets worst hit were the ones speculators were dominant in. Miami, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Sacramento.....

It's pretty funny when you think about it. Here, buy this contract from me for double what I paid for it, don't worry, the bank will give you the money even if you don't qualify. Bunch of idiots on both sides. LMAO

Mr. Laz
07-12-2008, 09:02 AM
In the mid 90's congress passed a bill to allow drilling in ANWAR and Clinton vetoed it. That and other drilling that we should have been doing for the past 10 years would have gone a long way to avoiding this mess. The greenies won't allow us to build more nuclear facilities which is another piece of the puzzle. The libs and greenies have caused this problem and they still don't get it. They'd love nothing more than for gas to be $10 a gallon.

you teh idiot

Subterranean Alien
07-12-2008, 01:50 PM
I've noticed that in Europe, and even other places in the world, a person can travel by rail or bus rather easily. The United States is set up all wrong. Too spread out for economic travel. Or, too unwilling to invest in rail systems. To quote Tom Skerritt in the movie Singles ... "People love their cars."

Wa-Z
07-23-2008, 02:21 PM
Oil prices have dropped about $20 per barrel...why have the gas station prices not changed?

Lzen
07-23-2008, 02:24 PM
Oil prices have dropped about $20 per barrel...why have the gas station prices not changed?

Funny thing is that I was wondering why the gas station down the street from my house had gone down to 3.65 on Friday (it was 3.59 today) yet all the other stations in town were still around 3.89. Greed?

Baconeater
07-23-2008, 02:38 PM
Oil prices have dropped about $20 per barrel...why have the gas station prices not changed?
Cash grab.

ChiTown
07-23-2008, 02:39 PM
Oil prices have dropped about $20 per barrel...why have the gas station prices not changed?

It's always fast to go up, and slow to come down.