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View Full Version : Royals ***OFFICIAL Royals vs. Mariners thread for 7/13***


Bowser
07-13-2008, 11:39 AM
How about a sweep? I think I'd be fine with that. Look for the Mariners to come out swwinging after losing in walk-off style yesterday.

Reaper16
07-13-2008, 11:43 AM
How about a sweep? I think I'd be fine with that. Look for the Mariners to come out swwinging after losing in walk-off style yesterday.
Good. That team tends to miss when they swing.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 11:51 AM
On a side note, I think it's pretty amazing the Royals are only 9 games under .500, considering the couple of extended losing streaks they've been on this year. I feel pretty good about the '09 season, and even better about the '10 season (of course, this opinion is subject to change :) ).

Mr. Arrowhead
07-13-2008, 11:56 AM
i really think we can compete for the division next year, as long as Dayton keeps adding talent.

Adept Havelock
07-13-2008, 12:17 PM
Nice play by Mark Teahan against the wall.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:19 PM
Have we tried batting Grudz in the three hole this year? He and DeJesus seem to be the only two guys to get hits consistantly this year.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:21 PM
AVILLES BREAKS UP THE NO HITTER! YES!!

Adept Havelock
07-13-2008, 12:21 PM
Have we tried batting Grudz in the three hole this year? He and DeJesus seem to be the only two guys to get hits consistantly this year.

I think I've seen him there a few times this year, but I'm not positive.

AVILLES BREAKS UP THE NO HITTER! YES!!

LMAO

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:25 PM
Teahen with a mighty duck fart.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:28 PM
AND Jose Guillen gets the Mariners out of the jam with a DP.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:32 PM
By the way - where is alanm, and why has he given up on his game threads? Those were very user friendly with the box score updates.

Adept Havelock
07-13-2008, 12:33 PM
AND Jose Guillen gets the Mariners out of the jam with a DP.

:eek:

By the way - where is alanm, and why has he given up on his game threads? Those were very user friendly with the box score updates.

I think you mean alnorth. He still starts them occasionally.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:35 PM
:eek:



I think you mean alnorth. He still starts them occasionally.

Ahh, my bad, alnorth. Too many lower cased users starting with a.


I guess you could say Guillen was showing some love to his former team with that DP? :Lin:

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:38 PM
Holy shit. Gordon got a hit.

Adept Havelock
07-13-2008, 12:39 PM
Ahh, my bad, alnorth. Too many lower cased users starting with a.


I guess you could say Guillen was showing some love to his former team with that DP? :Lin:

You could, but I wouldn't. o:-)

Bowser
07-13-2008, 12:57 PM
And Guillen with a weak tit effort, swinging and missing at ball 3 and 4.

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 01:00 PM
Jose hasn't exactly covered himself in glory in his two at-bats.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 01:13 PM
Top of 5th; Royals up 1-0. I have no idea how we did it or who scored.

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 01:16 PM
Top of 5th; Royals up 1-0. I have no idea how we did it or who scored.

Consecutive singles from DeJesus, Aviles and Teahen. DDJ scored.

VonneMarie
07-13-2008, 01:20 PM
Tie game.

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 01:28 PM
Good piece of hitting by John Buck to move Gload over to third. Let's see if DDJ can continue his tear with runners in scoring position.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 01:31 PM
Aviles with a hustle infield single! Gload sores, Royals up 2-1!

Adept Havelock
07-13-2008, 01:32 PM
Aviles steals second. Charges being filed.

Teahan pops-up to Right Field to end the inning.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 01:34 PM
Aviles steals second. Charges being filed.

Teahan pops-up to Right Field to end the inning.

Silva shits self; curses mightily in language ump doesn't understand.

Adept Havelock
07-13-2008, 01:35 PM
Silva shits self; curses mightily in language ump doesn't understand.

Henry Silva is there? He was great in Sinatra's Ocean's Eleven and The Manchurian Candidate.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 01:37 PM
Henry Silva is there? He was great in Sinatra's Ocean's Eleven and The Manchurian Candidate.

:cuss:

Coach
07-13-2008, 01:38 PM
How the hell have the Royals not scored 5 runs off Silva? He's one of the worst pitchers in the AL.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 01:39 PM
How the hell have the Royals not scored 5 runs off Silva? He's one of the worst pitchers in the AL.

There you have it.

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 01:40 PM
Pretty crisp inning for Davies - three up, three down and a minimum number of pitches.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 01:41 PM
Pretty crisp inning for Davies - three up, three down and a minimum number of pitches.

Good. Give us seven strong so we can get to Mahay/Soria.....

Bowser
07-13-2008, 01:47 PM
I know that this has been talked about before, but my god, we really need to find some guys with power that can hit from the 1B and DH positions. Jesus.

VonneMarie
07-13-2008, 01:47 PM
Aviles steals second. Charges being filed.



LMAO

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 01:47 PM
The Royals have really taken advantage of the Silva / Clement combo to steal some bases. Too bad Billy can't get the run home. He's had a pretty miserable day at the plate.

VonneMarie
07-13-2008, 01:56 PM
I hate Davies

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 01:57 PM
Clement breaks an 0 for 15 slide with a two-run jack off Davies. That was pretty ugly.

Coach
07-13-2008, 01:59 PM
I hate Davies

Join the club, cupcake. I been clamoring for his head, since he's not MLB worthy. AAAA career player at best.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:02 PM
Join the club, cupcake. I been clamoring for his head, since he's not MLB worthy. AAAA career player at best.

Shit, you might be able to make that argument for fully 1/3 of the Royals' bench today.

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 02:04 PM
Good question by Lefebvre - do you ask DDJ to bunt or swing away with runners on 1st and 2nd and no one out?

Edit: I guess you bunt.

VonneMarie
07-13-2008, 02:04 PM
Join the club, cupcake. I been clamoring for his head, since he's not MLB worthy. AAAA career player at best.
Isn't that major league?

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 02:09 PM
Good bit of small ball there to get a run home. Could use a two-out hit from Teahen to go ahead.

StcChief
07-13-2008, 02:20 PM
Join the club, cupcake. I been clamoring for his head, since he's not MLB worthy. AAAA career player at best.but that would describe the whole team :p:evil:

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:23 PM
Grudz with good hustle; Bettencourt with shitty mechanics.


DAMMIT GORDON!

DeezNutz
07-13-2008, 02:23 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Bannister and Davies are one in the same? The former might have a bit better control, but it's pretty close.

KCCHIEFS27
07-13-2008, 02:24 PM
I know that this has been talked about before, but my god, we really need to find some guys with power that can hit from the 1B and DH positions. Jesus.


Barry Bonds..

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:26 PM
Barry Bonds..

He wouldn't play here. He'd only go to a contender.

PGM
07-13-2008, 02:30 PM
He wouldn't play here. He'd only go to a contender.

Nobody is even interested for the league minimum. Not even the contenders. That should say a whole lot right there. I do wonder if he'd go to KC if it looked like they were the only team willing to make an offer. Not saying that the Royals would even offer the deal just hypothetical.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:31 PM
BUCK YOU INCOMPETENT SONOFABITCH!

KCCHIEFS27
07-13-2008, 02:31 PM
Nice fundamentals..

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:32 PM
Jesus, two errors and Mariners are up 4-3. Soria made a great snag of the grounder to get the runner at the plate, and Buck craps in his shorts. F*CK!

Coach
07-13-2008, 02:32 PM
Shit, you might be able to make that argument for fully 1/3 of the Royals' bench today.

Don't remind me....

Coach
07-13-2008, 02:33 PM
Isn't that major league?

No. It's AAA = Dominating and MLB = Sucking ass.

Basically he'll be shuttling back and forth from KC to Omaha.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:33 PM
Don't remind me....

John Buck needs a stint in Omaha.

1) Learn to throw out base stealers

2) Learn not to throw away the ball when the go ahead run is caught in a rundown at third. SHIT!

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 02:33 PM
Have they actually had a hit this inning?

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 02:34 PM
Someone needs to put Buck out to pasture.

thurman merman
07-13-2008, 02:34 PM
i'm so glad that john buck is playing instead of miguel olivo. he calls such a better game.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:34 PM
Have they actually had a hit this inning?

No. Too bad Soria is now on the hook for the loss.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-13-2008, 02:35 PM
WTF was aviles thinking

Coach
07-13-2008, 02:35 PM
John Buck needs a stint in Omaha.

1) Learn to throw out base stealers

2) Learn not to throw away the ball when the go ahead run is caught in a rundown at third. SHIT!

Or the 3rd option, which I am for it...

DFA'ed

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:35 PM
i'm so glad that john buck is playing instead of miguel olivo. he calls such a better game.

Put Olivo in there with a small receiver in his ear so Buck can radio in what pitch he should call.

SCTrojan
07-13-2008, 02:36 PM
John Buck needs a stint in Omaha.

1) Learn to throw out base stealers

2) Learn not to throw away the ball when the go ahead run is caught in a rundown at third. SHIT!

Seems as though he loads up to throw the ball when throwing to the bag and it takes up a lot of time. Not at all like Pudge Rodriguez who just seems to get the ball out instantly.

KCCHIEFS27
07-13-2008, 02:37 PM
He wouldn't play here. He'd only go to a contender.

The Royals are only a 20 game winning streak away from contending..plus, I think he'd play anywhere to increase his Home Run total..and he's only 60 some hits away from 3000..

VonneMarie
07-13-2008, 02:40 PM
How the freak did they score? Ugh.

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 02:40 PM
Man we got hosed on that Beltran trade.

KCCHIEFS27
07-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Does anybody know if there is a John Buck baseball camp out there? I'd love to send my kid there..

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Sit your ass down, Buck.

thurman merman
07-13-2008, 02:41 PM
buck redeems his terrible defense with another impressive strikeout.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:41 PM
How the freak did they score? Ugh.

Errors by Aviles and John Freaking Buck.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:42 PM
No way DeJesus can pull another one out of his ass....

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 02:43 PM
come on DDJ

VonneMarie
07-13-2008, 02:44 PM
Almost!

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:44 PM
Shit.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-13-2008, 02:46 PM
well this one is on buck and aviles, at least aviles had 3 hits, so **** you john buck

Stewie
07-13-2008, 02:46 PM
John Buck is the poster boy for the Royals. Get rid of him!

petegz28
07-13-2008, 02:46 PM
well this one is on buck and aviles, at least aviles had 3 hits, so **** you john buck

Yeah but Avilles ****ed up twice in the 9th.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:47 PM
John Buck is the poster boy for the Royals. Get rid of his horrible ass!

I don't know who our catcher in Omaha is, but I can't believe he'd be any worse backing up Olivo.

Stewie
07-13-2008, 02:48 PM
Yeah but Avilles ****ed up twice in the 9th.

I don't blame Aviles for the Buck bad throw. Buck needs to go.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-13-2008, 02:50 PM
Buck is the worst catcher in the MLB hands down

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 02:51 PM
Buck has thrown out ONE runner this year. ONE. He is One for 34.

That is the equivalent of turning 33 singles into doubles.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:52 PM
Buck has thrown out ONE runner this year. ONE. He is One for 34.

That is the equivalent of turning 33 singles into doubles.

Brutal. Combine that with our 1B and DH hitting a combined THREE home runs this year, and it's nothing short of a miracle that we're only 10 games under .500 right now.

Reaper16
07-13-2008, 02:53 PM
Today's loss was as painful as last night's was awesome.

That was 3 errors in the 9th to me, but the box score says only one. It sucks that Soria has to be charged with a loss without giving up any earned runs.

doomy3
07-13-2008, 02:54 PM
Buck is the worst catcher in the MLB hands down

no he's not.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 02:54 PM
no he's not.

Who's worse?

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 02:55 PM
Seriously, John Buck needs to go. Get him the **** out of town. **** THAT DUDE.

doomy3
07-13-2008, 02:55 PM
Buck has thrown out ONE runner this year. ONE. He is One for 34.

That is the equivalent of turning 33 singles into doubles.


Too bad that's not true. He has thrown out 5 runners. 36 SBs, 5 caught stealing.

Still horrible, no doubt about it.

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 02:55 PM
**** BUCK

BUCK SUCKS

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 02:56 PM
Too bad that's not true. He has thrown out 5 runners. 36 SBs, 5 caught stealing.

Still horrible, no doubt about it.

he was 1 for 29 the other day, they mentioned on the broadcast... did he miraculously get 4 more out in the past 2 weeks?

Coach
07-13-2008, 02:57 PM
Who's worse?

Jason Kendall comes into mind.

doomy3
07-13-2008, 02:57 PM
Who's worse?

Paul Bako
Chris Coste
Jesus Flores
Greg Zaun
Rod Barajas

off the top of my head. There are others. These guys all either start or have around 200 ABs for their teams already too.

Also, Olivo is worse.

doomy3
07-13-2008, 02:58 PM
he was 1 for 29 the other day, they mentioned on the broadcast... did he miraculously get 4 more out in the past 2 weeks?


They got it wrong then.

Bowser
07-13-2008, 03:00 PM
Greg Zaun still plays?

ANd that is debatable about Olivo. Olivo is no superstar, but at least he can hit and throw out the occasional base stealer.

Buck botching that rundown play was just ridiculous. They had the runner dead to rights. Little leaguers pull that play.

BigRock
07-13-2008, 03:01 PM
I don't blame Aviles for the Buck bad throw. Buck needs to go.
You sure as shit should blame Aviles. Even with Buck's overthrow, if Aviles actually throws the ball home, there's a play at the plate.

And Aviles' screwup is worse considering that's now TWICE in a matter of games that he's made the exact same mistake and cost the Royals a win. There's a runner on 3rd and he doesn't so much as give a cursory glance towards home plate. WTF is he throwing to 2nd for? Grudz was 10 feet from the bag.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-13-2008, 03:02 PM
Paul Bako


Also, Olivo is worse.
how do you figure buck has thrown out 5 guys out of 38 and olivo has thrown out 9 guys out of 19. then add to the fact olivo has a better hitting avg., almost twice as many HRs, and more RBIs' Now tell me whos better

doomy3
07-13-2008, 03:03 PM
Greg Zaun still plays?

ANd that is debatable about Olivo. Olivo is no superstar, but at least he can hit and throw out the occasional base stealer.

Buck botching that rundown play was just ridiculous. They had the runner dead to rights. Little leaguers pull that play.


Yep, Zaun plays for the Blue Jays. He and Barajas split kind of like Buck and Olivo. Shows how watered down the talent is at catcher.

Yes, Buck sucks at stopping the running game this year. You win that point.

Buck is the better career hitter with a WAY better plate approach. Our pitching staff does WAY better with Buck behind the plate and our team is one game above .500 with Buck starting catcher...while it's 11 games under .500 with Olivo as our catcher.
Please tell me which side of the argument has more weight. Throwing out base stealers or offensive approach, better career offensive player, better pitching, and winning.

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 03:03 PM
Yeah that Aviles play was dumb****ed... but to his defense... he got 3 hits and 2 RBI's

Buck licks castrated monkey nuts.

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 03:07 PM
Wow, i had never seen this pic of John Buck before...



http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/hankendale/HorriblePile.png

doomy3
07-13-2008, 03:07 PM
how do you figure buck has thrown out 5 guys out of 38 and olivo has thrown out 9 guys out of 19. then add to the fact olivo has a better hitting avg., almost twice as many HRs, and more RBIs' Now tell me whos better


For all the runners Olivo has thrown out compared to Buck, he has allowed WAY more to advance just by not catching the ball. He is a terrible defensive catcher. He had a hot streak at the plate this year, and hits lefties well, but overall, he is just not good.

Neither is Buck, but as I pointed out earlier, it's not like there's an excess of great fielding, hitting catchers around.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-13-2008, 03:08 PM
Wow, i had never seen this pic of John Buck before...



http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/hankendale/HorriblePile.png
it looks just like him

BigRock
07-13-2008, 03:08 PM
Yeah that Aviles play was dumb****ed...
Plays.

The Buck pile-on is hilarious. Does he suck? Sure. But who blew the game? Mike Aviles.

doomy3
07-13-2008, 03:15 PM
For everyone wanting to just dump Buck, name all the catchers who are significantly better than him in all of the majors. There are probably around 10.

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 03:18 PM
yeah, he is batting 9th since he is so awesome.

doomy3
07-13-2008, 03:21 PM
yeah, he is batting 9th since he is so awesome.


I just love educated posts like this. Who claimed he was awesome? He clearly is not, but he also isn't nearly as bad as what people are acting like. Name all the catchers in the majors who are significantly better than Buck. There really aren't that many.

Ari Chi3fs
07-13-2008, 03:27 PM
:hmmm:

SithCeNtZ
07-13-2008, 03:31 PM
I just love educated posts like this. Who claimed he was awesome? He clearly is not, but he also isn't nearly as bad as what people are acting like. Name all the catchers in the majors who are significantly better than Buck. There really aren't that many.

Now doomy, don't go all crazy quoting stuff like "stats" and "numbers" to prove your point. They watch the games, that's all they need to know Buck sucks.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2008, 04:06 PM
Yep, that play was saved by Aviles from getting worse, it was Bucks fault that the mariners won the game....

We really need a catcher, he continues to make bonehead plays and decisions

DeezNutz
07-13-2008, 04:17 PM
T PCT Rank G GS PO A E TC DP TP PB
Barajas,R TOR R .997 2 53 47 348 28 1 377 3 0 2

There's no way that Barajas can be worse than Buck. Statistically he is the second best defensive catcher in the American League. Buck is ranked eighth. Statistics don't lie; they're all that matter.

http://pressbox.mlb.com/pressbox/statistics/stats_08.jsp?content=/r/indfl2_103

BigRock
07-13-2008, 04:20 PM
Yep, that play was saved by Aviles from getting worse, it was Bucks fault that the mariners won the game....
Maybe this should be broken down into a math equation.

Aviles dropping a pop-up to put the leadoff man on 2nd with no outs in a tie-game

+

Aviles not even looking at home plate, instead throwing to 2nd where there was no chance of a play

>

Buck overthrowing 3rd on the rundown, which would have been entirely meaningless if Aviles just had thrown home to get the lead runner.

DeezNutz
07-13-2008, 04:23 PM
Maybe this should be broken down into a math equation.

Aviles dropping a pop-up to put the leadoff man on 2nd with no outs in a tie-game

+

Aviles not even looking at home plate, instead throwing to 2nd where there was no chance of a play

>

Buck overthrowing 3rd on the rundown, which would have been entirely meaningless if Aviles just had thrown home to get the lead runner.

Didn't the runner steal third after Aviles' drop (I was working during the game)? Granted, runners generally take third on a pitcher.

I don't think Buck himself is responsible for the loss, but not executing a run-down is bush. Aviles, though he should have definitely thrown home, did a nice job of even catching Buck's over-throw. Aviles and Buck seem to have worked together today to **** up defensively in the ninth.

BigRock
07-13-2008, 04:27 PM
Didn't the runner steal third after Aviles' drop (I was working during the game)? Granted, runners generally take third on a pitcher.
They bunted him over.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2008, 04:27 PM
Maybe this should be broken down into a math equation.

Aviles dropping a pop-up to put the leadoff man on 2nd with no outs in a tie-game

+

Aviles not even looking at home plate, instead throwing to 2nd where there was no chance of a play

>

Buck overthrowing 3rd on the rundown, which would have been entirely meaningless if Aviles just had thrown home to get the lead runner.

Apologies...i never saw the actual plays live and just now saw the replays, i heard hte end of the game on radio driving back from kirksville....they made it sound like it was all bucks faul and never explained Aviles had a shot at home.

Equal faults on both, i just dont get where aviles was there.

Either way, our guys continue to have brainfarts

DeezNutz
07-13-2008, 04:28 PM
They bunted him over.

Word. Like I said, was not totally focused on the game.

BigRock
07-13-2008, 04:39 PM
never explained Aviles had a shot at home.
Seeing this pic, it looks even worse than it did live.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2244/throwhomekx7.jpg

SithCeNtZ
07-13-2008, 04:42 PM
T PCT Rank G GS PO A E TC DP TP PB
Barajas,R TOR R .997 2 53 47 348 28 1 377 3 0 2

There's no way that Barajas can be worse than Buck. Statistically he is the second best defensive catcher in the American League. Buck is ranked eighth. Statistics don't lie; they're all that matter.

http://pressbox.mlb.com/pressbox/statistics/stats_08.jsp?content=/r/indfl2_103

You are correct that Doomy was probably off on some of the catchers he listed. Barajas has probably been slightly better than Buck, but Doomy's point is still well within reason.

Looking at offensive numbers with catchers(100 AB min) he ranks:
24 out 48 in avg
24/48 in OBP
24/48 in Slugging
25/48 in OPS
T-18/48 in HR's
And in the most important stat of all that renders all other stats irrelevent!
T-17/48 in RBI's

Doomy is correct, Buck is the poster boy for an average catcher in the league. He isn't great, but he isn't terrible either.

DeezNutz
07-13-2008, 04:43 PM
Seeing this pic, it looks even worse than it did live.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2244/throwhomekx7.jpg

Did he not make a pretty nice play to catch the overthrow? Barehand, even? No? Serious questions.

KCUnited
07-13-2008, 04:45 PM
Mike Aviles 3-4 with 2 RBIs

John Buck 1-4 with a throwing error in the top of the 9th

I'm not blaming it on anyone, but thats what the box score says.

Demonpenz
07-13-2008, 04:47 PM
shit happens. We left alot of runners on base. Our Dh failed to get the ball out of the infield

DeezNutz
07-13-2008, 04:49 PM
You are correct that Doomy was probably off on some of the catchers he listed. Barajas has probably been slightly better than Buck, but Doomy's point is still well within reason.

Looking at offensive numbers with catchers(100 AB min) he ranks:
24 out 48 in avg
24/48 in OBP
24/48 in Slugging
25/48 in OPS
T-18/48 in HR's
And in the most important stat of all that renders all other stats irrelevent!
T-17/48 in RBI's

Doomy is correct, Buck is the poster boy for an average catcher in the league. He isn't great, but he isn't terrible either.

We agree. Buck's ok, but he possesses some very frustrating deficiencies, like throwing out runners.

Statistics are important tools for analysis. But you seem to interpret them way too literally IMHO. Thus we have Jose Teahen. Evaluating performance is more subjective than this, or teams wouldn't waste so much money on silly things like scouts. You know, the people who watch the game. Why not just acquire the players with the best statistics, particularly those with a high OPS? The draft could be computer generated.

BigRock
07-13-2008, 04:50 PM
Did he not make a pretty nice play to catch the overthrow? Barehand, even? No? Serious questions.
He definitely made a good save on the ball. Although if he'd backed up Gordon right away, he wouldn't have had to make the lunging grab he did.

DeezNutz
07-13-2008, 05:29 PM
He definitely made a good save on the ball. Although if he'd backed up Gordon right away, he wouldn't have had to make the lunging grab he did.

Cool. I'm not sure why you're placing a greater percentage of blame on Aviles, however. Should he have caught the pop-up? Certainly. Should he have thrown home rather than to Grudz in no man's land? Definitely. But Buck has to throw a catchable ball to Gordon to record the out. To say that one mistake is worse than the other is difficult in this case.

Were you defending Buck primarily because of the feeding frenzy as the result of his **** up? If so, understandable.

Just as you've been stating that Aviles, by going home would have bailed out Buck, so too would Buck, by completing the run down, have taken Aviles off the hook. Seems to be a wash. Factor in the fact that Aviles had a couple of RBIs and it's understandable why so many posters were quick to place more blame at Buck's feet.

KCinNY
07-13-2008, 05:33 PM
Anybody see the base stealer that Buck actually DID throw out today?

Missed 2nd base by 6 feet and Aviles made a great catch and tag for the out.

BigRock
07-13-2008, 06:07 PM
Cool. I'm not sure why you're placing a greater percentage of blame on Aviles, however. Should he have caught the pop-up? Certainly. Should he have thrown home rather than to Grudz in no man's land? Definitely. But Buck has to throw a catchable ball to Gordon to record the out. To say that one mistake is worse than the other is difficult in this case.

Were you defending Buck primarily because of the feeding frenzy as the result of his **** up? If so, understandable.

Just as you've been stating that Aviles, by going home would have bailed out Buck, so too would Buck, by completing the run down, have taken Aviles off the hook. Seems to be a wash. Factor in the fact that Aviles had a couple of RBIs and it's understandable why so many posters were quick to place more blame at Buck's feet.

I'm not really trying to defend Buck at all. He screwed the pooch on what should have been an easy play.

But that runner was on the bases, and not sitting on the bench in the M's dugout, because of Aviles. And even with Buck's bad throw, the runner still could have been thrown out if Aviles doesn't (once again) lose his mind and throw to 2nd. Buck's error should have been a harmless footnote to a Royals' win.

Aviles was more to blame. It's not that I'm defending Buck, or trying to pile on Aviles (who I like), it's just the way it is. Sure, Aviles had a good game at the plate, but two costly mistakes in the 9th that cost the team a game tend to wipe a lot of that out.

From what Sure-Oz said about the radio coverage, I think a lot of people were probably listening to it and didn't see what happened.

DeezNutz
07-13-2008, 07:04 PM
I'm not really trying to defend Buck at all. He screwed the pooch on what should have been an easy play.

But that runner was on the bases, and not sitting on the bench in the M's dugout, because of Aviles. And even with Buck's bad throw, the runner still could have been thrown out if Aviles doesn't (once again) lose his mind and throw to 2nd. Buck's error should have been a harmless footnote to a Royals' win.

Aviles was more to blame. It's not that I'm defending Buck, or trying to pile on Aviles (who I like), it's just the way it is. Sure, Aviles had a good game at the plate, but two costly mistakes in the 9th that cost the team a game tend to wipe a lot of that out.

From what Sure-Oz said about the radio coverage, I think a lot of people were probably listening to it and didn't see what happened.

To a certain extent, we'll have to agree to disagree, which if fine.

An over-the-shoulder catch in short centerfield, though a play that should be made, is a more difficult play than executing a run-down. Aviles' second mistake was the direct result of Buck's error. Thus Aviles should never have been in this situation in the first place, just as some claim that Buck shouldn't have been in his situation. It has to work both ways.

For those who put much stock in statistics, there was only one official error, and this was Buck's. Obviously this evidence is incontrovertible. ;)

thurman merman
07-14-2008, 12:05 PM
Wow, i had never seen this pic of John Buck before...



http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/hankendale/HorriblePile.png

ROFL

thurman merman
07-14-2008, 12:07 PM
Seeing this pic, it looks even worse than it did live.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2244/throwhomekx7.jpg

LOL @ alex gordon on the floor.