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Taco John
07-22-2008, 07:47 PM
This excerpt from Shelby Steele of the WSJ nails my problem with Obama much better than I could have ever stated myself.


From the WSJ article "Why Jessie Jackson Hates Obama"

So it has to be acknowledged that, on the level of cultural and historical symbolism, an Obama presidency might nudge the culture forward a bit -- presuming of course that he would be at least a competent president. (A less-than-competent black president would likely be a step backwards.) It would be a good thing were blacks to be more open to the power of individual responsibility. And it would surely help us all if whites were less cowed by the political correctness on black issues that protects their racial innocence at the expense of the very principles that made America great. We Americans are hungry for such a cultural shift.

This, no doubt, is what Barack Obama means by "change." He promises to reconfigure our exhausted cultural arrangement.

But here lies his essential contradiction: His campaign is more cultural than political. He sells himself more as a cultural breakthrough than as a candidate for office. To be a projection screen for the cultural aspirations of both blacks and whites one must be an invisible man politically. Real world politics, in their mundanity, interrupt cultural projections. And so Mr. Obama's political invisibility -- a charm that can only derive from a lack of deep political convictions -- may well serve his cultural appeal, but it also makes him something of a political mess.

Already he has flip-flopped on campaign financing, wire-tapping, gun control, faith-based initiatives, and the terms of withdrawal from Iraq. Those enamored of his cultural potential may say these reversals are an indication of thoughtfulness, or even open-mindedness. But could it be that this is a man who trusted so much in his cultural appeal that the struggles of principle and conscience never seemed quite real to him? His flip-flops belie an almost existential callowness toward principle, as if the very idea of permanent truth is passé, a form of bad taste.




Read the entire article here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121668579909472083.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Direckshun
07-22-2008, 07:55 PM
That's an awful lot of conjecture, and of course it's premised on a pretty rocky foundation that Obama has been an insistant flip-flopper, but that's a conversation I'd rather not have again.

I don't know exactly why a politics and culture are mutually exclusive, and the author doesn't detail why they are.

That said, it's a thoughtful rebuke. I just don't take the leaps and bounds of conjecture that the author wishes to.

***SPRAYER
07-22-2008, 07:57 PM
Great point by Shelby Steele and articulated beautifully.

There are many, many problems I have with B.O. One of them is one I haven't heard anybody talk about so I'll mention it now...

In a world of scarce resources--- and a Harvard Law Degree is a scarce resource--- why go to Harvard if you know you are not going to use it? Go to some other school, don't F somebody else out of that precious slot.

Not that I give a shit about rich boys who go to Harvard, but it's the damn principle of the thing.

Direckshun
07-22-2008, 08:11 PM
Great point by Shelby Steele and articulated beautifully.

There are many, many problems I have with B.O. One of them is one I haven't heard anybody talk about so I'll mention it now...

In a world of scarce resources--- and a Harvard Law Degree is a scarce resource--- why go to Harvard if you know you are not going to use it? Go to some other school, don't F somebody else out of that precious slot.

Not that I give a shit about rich boys who go to Harvard, but it's the damn principle of the thing.
Words fail.

banyon
07-22-2008, 08:14 PM
Couldn't the guy bother to spell Jesse Jackson's name correctly?

Fish
07-22-2008, 08:31 PM
Great point by Shelby Steele and articulated beautifully.

There are many, many problems I have with B.O. One of them is one I haven't heard anybody talk about so I'll mention it now...

In a world of scarce resources--- and a Harvard Law Degree is a scarce resource--- why go to Harvard if you know you are not going to use it? Go to some other school, don't F somebody else out of that precious slot.

Not that I give a shit about rich boys who go to Harvard, but it's the damn principle of the thing.

Well now that's just the stupidest thing I've heard today.....

OnTheWarpath58
07-22-2008, 08:33 PM
Well now that's just the stupidest thing I've heard today.....

Head over to the Croyle thread in the Lounge...

SNR
07-22-2008, 08:45 PM
Great point by Shelby Steele and articulated beautifully.

There are many, many problems I have with B.O. One of them is one I haven't heard anybody talk about so I'll mention it now...

In a world of scarce resources--- and a Harvard Law Degree is a scarce resource--- why go to Harvard if you know you are not going to use it? Go to some other school, don't F somebody else out of that precious slot.

Not that I give a shit about rich boys who go to Harvard, but it's the damn principle of the thing.College isn't a trade school. Especially not a place like Harvard.

The degree you earn from the institution means jack shit. I knew a guy who went to Julliard and decided he didn't like a career as a musician, so he went back to school and is now a physician.

little jacob
07-22-2008, 09:05 PM
i generally agree with this. he doesn't have much experience, appears to have few strongly held political beliefs. so what is he running on? marketing, likability. a cultural phenomenon.

it's sort of like those celebrities who are famous for being famous.

SBK
07-22-2008, 09:10 PM
I don't like him cause he's wayyyyyy too liberal.

noa
07-22-2008, 09:11 PM
Great point by Shelby Steele and articulated beautifully.

There are many, many problems I have with B.O. One of them is one I haven't heard anybody talk about so I'll mention it now...

In a world of scarce resources--- and a Harvard Law Degree is a scarce resource--- why go to Harvard if you know you are not going to use it? Go to some other school, don't F somebody else out of that precious slot.

Not that I give a shit about rich boys who go to Harvard, but it's the damn principle of the thing.

self'd

irishjayhawk
07-22-2008, 09:44 PM
I'll take a cultural change. Our culture bred the stagnation of the last 8 years. Congress needs a CULTURAL change.


Still, no one has answered my request for a list of requirements and experience a potential Presidential candidate must have. We clearly have a mismatch problem in the job search for a president.


*Note: I don't necessarily endorse BO. I do, however, despise McCain. I wish both would stop pandering to huge groups of people*

memyselfI
07-23-2008, 05:36 AM
This excerpt from Shelby Steele of the WSJ nails my problem with Obama much better than I could have ever stated myself.




But here lies his essential contradiction: His campaign is more cultural than political. He sells himself more as a cultural breakthrough than as a candidate for office. [B]To be a projection screen for the cultural aspirations of both blacks and whites one must be an invisible man politically. Real world politics, in their mundanity, interrupt cultural projections. And so Mr. Obama's political invisibility -- a charm that can only derive from a lack of deep political convictions -- may well serve his cultural appeal, but it also makes him something of a political mess.

Already he has flip-flopped on campaign financing, wire-tapping, gun control, faith-based initiatives, and the terms of withdrawal from Iraq. Those enamored of his cultural potential may say these reversals are an indication of thoughtfulness, or even open-mindedness. But could it be that this is a man who trusted so much in his cultural appeal that the struggles of principle and conscience never seemed quite real to him? His flip-flops belie an almost existential callowness toward principle, as if the very idea of permanent truth is passé, a form of bad taste.




Read the entire article here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121668579909472083.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries



The writer nailes lies the dilemma NObo has created for HIMself. He WANTED to be a blank screen and claimed that as his strategy. To be a blank screen one also assumes a poster of the empty suit in order to maintain the blankness necessary for projection.

He then fills the void with populism and demagogy to forge an appeal complete with rapant symbolism and rhetoric reminiscent of previously beloved leaders in an attempt to outline and contain the blank screen content.

Like DUHbya before him, the very image he's crafted will be his downfall.

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 05:59 AM
self'd


How?

Who graduates from Columbia University, goes on to Harvard Law School--

And becomes a "community organizer" which is just a nice semantical way of saying he handed out leaflets on the corner to disinterested passerby trying to be polite as they wave him off.

The guy is an asshole.

whatsmynameagain
07-23-2008, 07:48 AM
In a world of scarce resources--- and a Harvard Law Degree is a scarce resource--- why go to Harvard if you know you are not going to use it? Go to some other school, don't F somebody else out of that precious slot.

Not that I give a shit about rich boys who go to Harvard, but it's the damn principle of the thing.


when he worked as a organizer he decided that the changes he wanted to make were not possible without a law degree. so the man went out and did something about it. regardless of what you say history shows the man is a success and he will succeed. he became the president of the harvard review while attending there. you should love the fact we have a candidate this smart.

Posted via Mobile Device

Smed1065
07-23-2008, 08:35 AM
That's an awful lot of conjecture, and of course it's premised on a pretty rocky foundation that Obama has been an insistant flip-flopper, but that's a conversation I'd rather not have again.

I don't know exactly why a politics and culture are mutually exclusive, and the author doesn't detail why they are.

Only if u believe the projection of the party that cant remember countries after 20 years. :)

Course they do not know direction or past voting either..........

ROFLMAO.

No platform, no memory and a war hero, Right.

He is great leader with no treatment or knowledge of the facts or of anything proven on combat vets syndrome.

ROFLMO

he was to strong for that shit he is also to old to think about the best for us, not him!
IMO

That said, it's a thoughtful rebuke. I just don't take the leaps and bounds of conjecture that the author wishes to.

Why not, he is using years ago and expects to win Today?

Just proves he is outdated and a gun shot away from Cheney.

noa
07-23-2008, 08:46 AM
How?

Who graduates from Columbia University, goes on to Harvard Law School--

And becomes a "community organizer" which is just a nice semantical way of saying he handed out leaflets on the corner to disinterested passerby trying to be polite as they wave him off.

The guy is an asshole.

Ummm, you should probably work on your time line. First he was a community organizer, then he went to Harvard Law. Then he practiced law full time, using that scarce resource of a law degree, and taught Con Law at U of Chicago Law School.

But by all means, let this uber selfing continue. No need to actually get facts right when you can just keep posting all of your emails for us. ;)

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 08:49 AM
Ummm, you should probably work on your time line. First he was a community organizer, then he went to Harvard Law. Then he practiced law full time, using that scarce resource of a law degree, and taught Con Law at U of Chicago Law School.

But by all means, let this uber selfing continue. No need to actually get facts right when you can just keep posting all of your emails for us. ;)

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuse me!

:mad:

noa
07-23-2008, 08:52 AM
Well excuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuse me!

:mad:

People who want basic biographical facts correct are totally NUTS! Obamabots pwned. Everyone brainwashed. Hope for Change zombies. Vote McCain!

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 08:53 AM
People who want basic biographical facts correct are totally NUTS! Obamabots pwned. Everyone brainwashed. Hope for Change zombies. Vote McCain!


You don't have to be a sorehead about it.

:mad:

noa
07-23-2008, 08:58 AM
You don't have to be a sorehead about it.

:mad:

I ain't sore. How are you feeling? :D

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 09:00 AM
I ain't sore. How are you feeling? :D

PETULANT!

:mad:

whatsmynameagain
07-23-2008, 09:02 AM
with a name like SHTSPRAYER its no wonder that you keep talking out of your ass. all you are is another asshole talking shit, literally. Posted via Mobile Device

Taco John
07-23-2008, 09:10 AM
It's tough to even have an intelligent conversation about the problems I have with Obama when people that give me no reason to respect them start piling on and posting such stupid stuff.

SHTSPRAYER is easily the worst poster this forum has ever seen. And that's saying a lot considering the douchbags we've had run through this place.

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 09:13 AM
It's tough to even have an intelligent conversation about the problems I have with Obama when people that give me no reason to respect them start piling on and posting such stupid stuff.

SHTSPRAYER is easily the worst poster this forum has ever seen. And that's saying a lot considering the douchbags we've had run through this place.

Who died and made you king?

CeePee

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 09:15 AM
with a name like SHTSPRAYER its no wonder that you keep talking out of your ass. all you are is another asshole talking shit, literally. Posted via Mobile Device

Why you I oughta...

:cuss:

Adept Havelock
07-23-2008, 09:29 AM
SHTSPRAYER is easily the worst poster this forum has ever seen. And that's saying a lot considering the douchbags we've had run through this place.

Oh, I don't know about that. We've still got Tom and Jake.

At least Shtsprayer thinks he's funny.

ROYC75
07-23-2008, 11:39 AM
i generally agree with this. he doesn't have much experience, appears to have few strongly held political beliefs. so what is he running on? marketing, likability. a cultural phenomenon.

it's sort of like those celebrities who are famous for being famous.

It's more Culture ........ He's the Oprah Winfrey / Whoopi Goldberg candidate .

Seriously, I don't see much with him, likability with the young people / crowd that wants " CHANGE ". The sad part is they do not see what kind of change is coming cause Obama doesn't know. Nobody knows .........

Folks, I'm not prejudice because my grandkids are bi-racial ..... but seriously, the thought of becoming the 1st black president, or the 1st bi-racial president is appealing to the younger crowd and the media. The Bi-racial movement has been coming on for years, it's like being the "NEW BABY BOOMERS "

It is what it is folks....... Sure Obama has his plan, the problem is , it's just not the right plan for America.

Carlota69
07-23-2008, 12:06 PM
Oh, I don't know about that. We've still got Tom and Jake.

At least Shtsprayer thinks he's funny.

Shtsprayer, I believe is Tom. He has the same "debate" tactics plus notice Programmer hasnt been around as much, if at all?

One thing is for sure, they're a ton of fun.:D

whatsmynameagain
07-23-2008, 12:14 PM
It's more Culture ........ He's the Oprah Winfrey / Whoopi Goldberg candidate .

Seriously, I don't see much with him, likability with the young people / crowd that wants " CHANGE ". The sad part is they do not see what kind of change is coming cause Obama doesn't know. Nobody knows .........

Folks, I'm not prejudice because my grandkids are bi-racial ..... but seriously, the thought of becoming the 1st black president, or the 1st bi-racial president is appealing to the younger crowd and the media. The Bi-racial movement has been coming on for years, it's like being the "NEW BABY BOOMERS "

It is what it is folks....... Sure Obama has his plan, the problem is , it's just not the right plan for America.

yeah, sure. mccain has this great plan, its called aarp. I think its sad how truly racist we still are. obama had no father growing up, excelled in his studies, went to harvard(im sure it was easy being one of only a handful of black students there), became pres of the extremely prestigious harvard review (something mccain could never do, ever, under any circumstance) went on to practice law, got a job in the senate and is now going for potus. obviously this man is as sharp as a tack and has done some pretty remarkable things.

mccain is a weak, senile, old man with no vision. this is becoming more and more obvious on a daily basis. he brings nothing new to the table. the main reason people dislike obama is because of his skin color. its disgusting

Posted via Mobile Device

SBK
07-23-2008, 01:04 PM
Jeesh it don't take much for people to get all butthurt around here.

And Boyceofsummer is the worst this area has seen. He's the only member of my iggy club, and it ain't his politics, as comrade Penchief is my favorite poster.

SBK
07-23-2008, 01:10 PM
yeah, sure. mccain has this great plan, its called aarp. I think its sad how truly racist we still are. obama had no father growing up, excelled in his studies, went to harvard(im sure it was easy being one of only a handful of black students there), became pres of the extremely prestigious harvard review (something mccain could never do, ever, under any circumstance) went on to practice law, got a job in the senate and is now going for potus. obviously this man is as sharp as a tack and has done some pretty remarkable things.

mccain is a weak, senile, old man with no vision. this is becoming more and more obvious on a daily basis. he brings nothing new to the table. the main reason people dislike obama is because of his skin color. its disgusting

Posted via Mobile Device

Don't like Obama = racist. SHOCKING. :deevee:

I hate to break it to you, Obama doesn't bring anything new to the table. Same old liberal ideas, same old playbook, just a fancy new package has lots of people :eek: thinking it's some new movement.

whatsmynameagain
07-23-2008, 02:01 PM
Don't like Obama = racist. SHOCKING. :deevee:

I hate to break it to you, Obama doesn't bring anything new to the table. Same old liberal ideas, same old playbook, just a fancy new package has lots of people :eek: thinking it's some new movement.

he brings intelligence to the table. something that has been removed for the last 8 years. id much rather him making decisions than some senile old man.

I forgot to explain this more in the previous post, sorry.
.... I say racist and its more directed toward the hillary supporters. anyone that was for hillary that says the are now for mccain are racists. obama and hillary were very similar in what they want to do, mccain is the polar opposite. what do those people actually stand for?

Posted via Mobile Device

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 02:06 PM
he brings intelligence to the table. something that has been removed for the last 8 years. id much rather him making decisions than some senile old man.

I forgot to explain this more in the previous post, sorry.
.... I say racist and its more directed toward the hillary supporters. anyone that was for hillary that says the are now for mccain are racists. obama and hillary were very similar in what they want to do, mccain is the polar opposite. what do those people actually stand for?

Posted via Mobile Device

Cue the Twilight Zone theme music.

SBK
07-23-2008, 02:06 PM
he brings intelligence to the table. something that has been removed for the last 8 years. id much rather him making decisions than some senile old man.

I forgot to explain this more in the previous post, sorry.
.... I say racist and its more directed toward the hillary supporters. anyone that was for hillary that says the are now for mccain are racists. obama and hillary were very similar in what they want to do, mccain is the polar opposite. what do those people actually stand for?

Posted via Mobile Device

So you're saying the only new thing Obama brings to the table is intelligence?

HolmeZz
07-23-2008, 02:32 PM
It is what it is folks....... Sure Obama has his plan, the problem is , it's just not the right plan for America.

Because McCain's plan is right for America.

Folks, I'm not prejudice because my grandkids are bi-racial .....

So that's the only reason?

but seriously, the thought of becoming the 1st black president, or the 1st bi-racial president is appealing to the younger crowd and the media. The Bi-racial movement has been coming on for years, it's like being the "NEW BABY BOOMERS

Anytime there's a successful minority candidate, the claims are that he or she is only relevant because of their skin color. That likely won't change until the election of minority candidates becomes typical.

The fact is you are diminishing Obama's own candidacy on the basis of his skin color.

whatsmynameagain
07-23-2008, 03:05 PM
So you're saying the only new thing Obama brings to the table is intelligence?

only? I forgot how intelligent the current potus and mclame are. my bad. for one, he will eliminate certain racial stereotypes and in him being elected will help in the progression of black america. im sure that's something you'd rather not see but your gonna have to deal with it. he is a strong, devoted family man that is a great example to other couples and familys out there.(mccain is too ask his first wife) obama brings a more open approach to the problems we face. he would rather take in all the facts instead of jumping the gun on issues. he brings a certain level of respect to the usa from the rest of the world.(im sure that doesn't matter either since we have a global economy and now rely more on other nations than we ever have).

I don't think obama is perfect and ill tell you what I dislike about him, the hollywood interview with his family, fisa, he does say um a lot but that shows he is thinking and his BRAIN STILL WORKS, and of course with any politician his religion. it would be great to have a potus that was athiest.


Posted via Mobile Device

Radar Chief
07-23-2008, 03:19 PM
Shtsprayer, I believe is Tom.

(Bzzzt) Wrong.
SHTSPRAYER has already fessed up, confirmed by a mod, and he's not Tom.

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 03:21 PM
(Bzzzt) Wrong.
SHTSPRAYER has already fessed up, confirmed by a mod, and he's not Tom.
Who is he?

whatsmynameagain
07-23-2008, 03:32 PM
Who is he?

larry craigs boy toy


Posted via Mobile Device

Radar Chief
07-23-2008, 03:33 PM
Who is he?

Search the topic “Kotter = SHTSPAYER” and you’ll find your answer.
If it helps any, I doubt he’s the least bit serious with what he posts. He’s just joking around.

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 03:35 PM
larry craigs boy toy


Posted via Mobile Device

Why oh why didn't your mother have the decency to flush you down the toilet after she took a shit?

Who is he?

Dude, what is your problem? I'm a guy who registered on this forum. Stop being such a nervous Nellie.

***SPRAYER
07-23-2008, 03:36 PM
Search the topic “Kotter = SHTSPAYER” and you’ll find your answer.
If it helps any, I doubt he’s the least bit serious with what he posts. He’s just joking around.

Thank you.

Liberals have no sense of humor. No, strike that. They have no sense at all.

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 03:41 PM
I'll take a cultural change. Our culture bred the stagnation of the last 8 years. Congress needs a CULTURAL change.


Still, no one has answered my request for a list of requirements and experience a potential Presidential candidate must have. We clearly have a mismatch problem in the job search for a president.


*Note: I don't necessarily endorse BO. I do, however, despise McCain. I wish both would stop pandering to huge groups of people*
1) He must be comfortable in his own skin, damn the torpedos, full speed ahead.

2) He must be articulate, with the ability to speak off the cuff, cogently, with passion about his vision for America, and how to make it great, yes, I said GREAT.

3) He must inspire, those around him to raise their game a notch, make them feel appreciated, even if their ideas are not the ones chosen.

4) He must speak clearly, in English, to the world around us. If he says Iran will not get Nukes, then by God they will only get nukes over his dead body, and EVERYBODY, especially ackmadidajob, BELIEVES him.

5) He must understand, that deep inside every liberal, is a conservative, yearning to be free and pursue happiness, and it is his job to educate them, if possible, to the level that they get the epiphany and get on board his train.

6) He must understand, that government doesn't have all the answers and never will. They are not god, and they shouldn't be held up as god, nor should those entrusted with it feel as if they are god(s).
For the godless among us, just let it be a level of humility that supersedes their egos.

ROYC75
07-23-2008, 03:48 PM
Because McCain's plan is right for America.



So that's the only reason?



Anytime there's a successful minority candidate, the claims are that he or she is only relevant because of their skin color. That likely won't change until the election of minority candidates becomes typical.

The fact is you are diminishing Obama's own candidacy on the basis of his skin color.


# 1 McCains plan is not perfect, To be honest here, you can't find the perfect plan. Somebody is always going to bitch about either plan or any politicians plans.

# 2 Only Reason ? OK, whatever, you don't know me ........

# 3 I agree with the minority candidate that is successful, reason the press is giving him sooo much attention, plus the fact he is a liberal, like the mainstream press .

# 4 Again, you don't know me at all .... I do not believe in Obama's plan , the way he wants to do things is not what I feel, " It is just that simple" !

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 03:49 PM
Search the topic “Kotter = SHTSPAYER” and you’ll find your answer.
If it helps any, I doubt he’s the least bit serious with what he posts. He’s just joking around.
Simply Red?

Awwww, MAN. I actually liked that guy until SHTSPRAYER was invented.

Stinger
07-23-2008, 03:53 PM
Simply Red?

Awwww, MAN. I actually liked that guy until SHTSPRAYER was invented.


Striiike 2

SBK
07-23-2008, 03:57 PM
only? I forgot how intelligent the current potus and mclame are. my bad. for one, he will eliminate certain racial stereotypes and in him being elected will help in the progression of black america. im sure that's something you'd rather not see but your gonna have to deal with it. he is a strong, devoted family man that is a great example to other couples and familys out there.(mccain is too ask his first wife) obama brings a more open approach to the problems we face. he would rather take in all the facts instead of jumping the gun on issues. he brings a certain level of respect to the usa from the rest of the world.(im sure that doesn't matter either since we have a global economy and now rely more on other nations than we ever have).

I don't think obama is perfect and ill tell you what I dislike about him, the hollywood interview with his family, fisa, he does say um a lot but that shows he is thinking and his BRAIN STILL WORKS, and of course with any politician his religion. it would be great to have a potus that was athiest.


Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks for calling me racist again. It shows the depth of your argument.

You didn't mention any new ideas that Obama brings to the table. I'm still assuming you agree with me and he's just the same old liberal in a shiny new package.

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 04:03 PM
# 1 McCain's plan is not perfect, To be honest here, you can't find the perfect plan. Somebody is always going to bitch about either plan or any politicians plans.

# 2 Only Reason ? OK, whatever, you don't know me ........

# 3 I agree with the minority candidate that is successful, reason the press is giving him sooo much attention, plus the fact he is a liberal, like the mainstream press .

# 4 Again, you don't know me at all .... I do not believe in Obama's plan , the way he wants to do things is not what I feel, " It is just that simple" !
Barack Hussein doesn't have the answers. The ONLY thing he has promised is change. He will be able to deliver that because right or wrong, good or bad, war or peace, it will be change. The only thing constant is change.

Nice campaign. Vote for me because I am not Clinton or Bush.

Bush isn't on the ticket, but the Obamites all say we don't' need another 4 years of Bush. Bush ran against McCain in 2000, and it was one of the most divisive Republican campaigns in my life. McCain was bitter and resentful, and broody. He made deals repeatedly to undermine Bush any chance he could, save one. The war, not so much as he wanted Bush to look good, but he is about America first. Heck, he even supported Clinton in Bosnia.

McCain is NOT a conservative, nor is he a NEOcon. McCain is hardly a Republican, but he is in the party and we threw him out there, I have no idea why. Please people, understand, that much of McCain's support will be ANTIoBama votes. It will NOT mean, that we believe wholeheartedly in much of Mccain's vision, nor will we be on the sidelines pulling him forward on a lot of stuff. The dems are going to be running things in congress, so even with a McCain presidency the democrat agenda will go forward. The only question is, do you want to take a chance on whats behind door number 2, or take the deal that Monte Hall is giving you with full disclosure.

Case closed. With that said, I reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks, and change my vote if it is clear that McCain has no chance in California(at present that is the case).

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 04:04 PM
Thanks for calling me racist again. It shows the depth of your argument.

You didn't mention any new ideas that Obama brings to the table. I'm still assuming you agree with me and he's just the same old liberal in a shiny new package.
That's all they got, it is really getting thin.

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 04:06 PM
only? I forgot how intelligent the current potus and mclame are. my bad. for one, he will eliminate certain racial stereotypes and in him being elected will help in the progression of black america. im sure that's something you'd rather not see but your gonna have to deal with it. he is a strong, devoted family man that is a great example to other couples and familys out there.(mccain is too ask his first wife) obama brings a more open approach to the problems we face. he would rather take in all the facts instead of jumping the gun on issues. he brings a certain level of respect to the usa from the rest of the world.(im sure that doesn't matter either since we have a global economy and now rely more on other nations than we ever have).

I don't think obama is perfect and ill tell you what I dislike about him, the hollywood interview with his family, fisa, he does say um a lot but that shows he is thinking and his BRAIN STILL WORKS, and of course with any politician his religion. it would be great to have a potus that was athiest.


Posted via Mobile DeviceAny other needs you need to ingrave on your image of Obama?

Try getting the fool away from the teleprompter, he would make Bush blush.

BigChiefFan
07-23-2008, 04:09 PM
Any other needs you need to ingrave on your image of Obama?

Try getting the fool away from the teleprompter, he would make Bush blush.
You actually believe they use teleprompters during debates?? LMAO.

BucEyedPea
07-23-2008, 04:20 PM
McCain is NOT a conservative, nor is he a NEOcon.
He is now, look at his fellow travelers. They got on his channels in the 90's. He's a fresh convert....and warmonger.

RJ
07-23-2008, 04:25 PM
The fact that he [I]doesn't[I] have deep political convictions is one of the things I like best about Obama. I'm tired of politicians whose convictions and beliefs matter more to them than does our country.

jettio
07-23-2008, 04:28 PM
This excerpt from Shelby Steele of the WSJ nails my problem with Obama much better than I could have ever stated myself.


From the WSJ article "Why Jessie Jackson Hates Obama"

So it has to be acknowledged that, on the level of cultural and historical symbolism, an Obama presidency might nudge the culture forward a bit -- presuming of course that he would be at least a competent president. (A less-than-competent black president would likely be a step backwards.) It would be a good thing were blacks to be more open to the power of individual responsibility. And it would surely help us all if whites were less cowed by the political correctness on black issues that protects their racial innocence at the expense of the very principles that made America great. We Americans are hungry for such a cultural shift.

This, no doubt, is what Barack Obama means by "change." He promises to reconfigure our exhausted cultural arrangement.

But here lies his essential contradiction: His campaign is more cultural than political. He sells himself more as a cultural breakthrough than as a candidate for office. To be a projection screen for the cultural aspirations of both blacks and whites one must be an invisible man politically. Real world politics, in their mundanity, interrupt cultural projections. And so Mr. Obama's political invisibility -- a charm that can only derive from a lack of deep political convictions -- may well serve his cultural appeal, but it also makes him something of a political mess.

Already he has flip-flopped on campaign financing, wire-tapping, gun control, faith-based initiatives, and the terms of withdrawal from Iraq. Those enamored of his cultural potential may say these reversals are an indication of thoughtfulness, or even open-mindedness. But could it be that this is a man who trusted so much in his cultural appeal that the struggles of principle and conscience never seemed quite real to him? His flip-flops belie an almost existential callowness toward principle, as if the very idea of permanent truth is passé, a form of bad taste.




Read the entire article here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121668579909472083.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries


Sour grapes by Shelby Steele for predicting that Obama could not win because of Obama's race.

That sissy insulted our country and now he is trying to find a whole different reason to throw stones.

SBK
07-23-2008, 04:36 PM
The fact that he [i]doesn't[i] have deep political convictions is one of the things I like best about Obama. I'm tired of politicians whose convictions and beliefs matter more to them than does our country.

Scary. :eek:

RJ
07-23-2008, 05:43 PM
Scary. :eek:


Political convictions from both sides are why we're in the shape we're in. Ideology has become more important than results.

Neither side is always right and neither side is always wrong. Couldn't prove that by reading here, though - according to this forum there are no gray areas. To each his own, that's why we vote.

SBK
07-23-2008, 05:49 PM
Political convictions from both sides are why we're in the shape we're in. Ideology has become more important than results.

Neither side is always right and neither side is always wrong. Couldn't prove that by reading here, though - according to this forum there are no gray areas. To each his own, that's why we vote.

It just surprised me that one would want a leader with no convictions.

BigChiefFan
07-23-2008, 05:59 PM
Political convictions from both sides are why we're in the shape we're in. Ideology has become more important than results.

Neither side is always right and neither side is always wrong. Couldn't prove that by reading here, though - according to this forum there are no gray areas. To each his own, that's why we vote.Great post!!! It's like some people have become mindless robots who can't even think for themselves and buy all the crap they are spoonfed-it's sickening. I agree it's on both sides of the fence, but I would have to say Republicans tend to be stooping to an time low with their propoganda these days. If they actually had a platform, then they wouldn't have to use all of their horseshit tactics that we've seen lately. The unfortunate part is some actually believe all the Muslim crap, etc...

Adept Havelock
07-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Political convictions from both sides are why we're in the shape we're in. Ideology has become more important than results.

Neither side is always right and neither side is always wrong. Couldn't prove that by reading here, though - according to this forum there are no gray areas. To each his own, that's why we vote.

Agreed. Sadly, pragmatists have played second fiddle to ideologues for quite some time.

Given the irreconcilability of those opposing ideologies, pragmatism represents the only hope for us to move forward as a nation, IMO.

It just surprised me that one would want a leader with no convictions.

That's one interpretation of pragmatism. An absurd one, to be sure, but it is one interpretation.

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 06:12 PM
You actually believe they use teleprompters during debates?? LMAO.Do you think that the mods will ask questions the way Katie asked him?

Uhh, well, um, I don't like umm hypotheticals.... umm what I meant by that umm, well , you see.

Phug it man, the dude is a tool.

whatsmynameagain
07-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Any other needs you need to ingrave on your image of Obama?

Try getting the fool away from the teleprompter, he would make Bush blush.

Oh im sure Obama would make off the cuff remarks about the current housing crisis and just laugh about it like nothings wrong. You really think mccain can talk without a teleprompter? The ****er cant even talk with a teleprompter. You have nothing. Every single thing you bag on Obama about Mccain has done the same or worse. That leaves me to conclude some are racist. I understand its a hard concept to grasp having a black man in the white house.

I asked my grandma (83), after hillary conceeded if she was backing obama, shes a lifelong democrat, and she says "Shit no, no NBOMB needs to be in the white house. Im for Hillary."
I was like grandma obama is the democratic nominee and she said im not voting. I realized at that moment that not only did the racism come out but the comment hillary made about older women not having a chance to see a woman president was really true. Its something that is definately a factor in this election and it shouldnt be.

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 06:14 PM
He is now, look at his fellow travelers. They got on his channels in the 90's. He's a fresh convert....and warmonger.
Enough of all this war bullshit, what, in your infinite massive reading of books wisdom, do you propose our country do about fi dolla gas?

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 06:16 PM
Political convictions from both sides are why we're in the shape we're in. Ideology has become more important than results.

Neither side is always right and neither side is always wrong. Couldn't prove that by reading here, though - according to this forum there are no gray areas. To each his own, that's why we vote.I am afraid we must elect Obama, because the crybabies couldn't live with the outcome if he didn't win.

RJ
07-23-2008, 06:19 PM
It just surprised me that one would want a leader with no convictions.


I didn't say "no convictions". I said no "deep political convictions. Obviously, there's a big difference.

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 06:24 PM
Oh im sure Obama would make off the cuff remarks about the current housing crisis and just laugh about it like nothings wrong. You really think mccain can talk without a teleprompter? The ****er cant even talk with a teleprompter. You have nothing. Every single thing you bag on Obama about Mccain has done the same or worse. That leaves me to conclude some are racist. I understand its a hard concept to grasp having a black man in the white house.

I asked my grandma (83), after hillary conceeded if she was backing obama, shes a lifelong democrat, and she says "Shit no, no NBOMB needs to be in the white house. Im for Hillary."
I was like grandma obama is the democratic nominee and she said im not voting. I realized at that moment that not only did the racism come out but the comment hillary made about older women not having a chance to see a woman president was really true. Its something that is definately a factor in this election and it shouldnt be.Which party made it that way?

RJ
07-23-2008, 06:26 PM
I am afraid we must elect Obama, because the crybabies couldn't live with the outcome if he didn't win.


I'm pretty sure either side will be impossible to live with if their guy doesn't win. Me, I'll be glad when it's over, regardless of outcome. I just hope whoever wins does a better job than his predecessor and worries more about his country than his party.

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 06:26 PM
Have any of you heard Susan Estrich describe "the Bradley effect"?

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 06:28 PM
I'm pretty sure either side will be impossible to live with if their guy doesn't win. Me, I'll be glad when it's over, regardless of outcome. I just hope whoever wins does a better job than his predecessor and worries more about his country than his party.
If the crybabies will STFD and STFU, I could live with an Obama presidency, but, if I ever say something like, "Why don't you ask Obama to help you?" , will that be a racist statement? I guess it depends on who I say it to?

That shit, whoopie goldberg double standards, STOPS, the day Obama is sworn in.

Quit crying the fuggin victim card that day.

Adept Havelock
07-23-2008, 06:32 PM
I'm pretty sure either side will be impossible to live with if their guy doesn't win.
As am I.

Me, I'll be glad when it's over, regardless of outcome. I just hope whoever wins does a better job than his predecessor and worries more about his country than his party.
Indeed. :clap:

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 06:34 PM
Great post!!! It's like some people have become mindless robots who can't even think for themselves and buy all the crap they are spoonfed-it's sickening. I agree it's on both sides of the fence, but I would have to say Republicans tend to be stooping to an time low with their propoganda these days. If they actually had a platform, then they wouldn't have to use all of their horseshit tactics that we've seen lately. The unfortunate part is some actually believe all the Muslim crap, etc...It isn't propaganda that is being spoonfed, it is a well marbled USDA prime grade filet mignon, and we eat well, have good protein for the brain, and come up with great ideas that make sense.

alanm
07-23-2008, 06:38 PM
I don't like him cause he's wayyyyyy too liberal.
Well there's that too.

RJ
07-23-2008, 06:51 PM
If the crybabies will STFD and STFU, I could live with an Obama presidency, but, if I ever say something like, "Why don't you ask Obama to help you?" , will that be a racist statement? I guess it depends on who I say it to?

That shit, whoopie goldberg double standards, STOPS, the day Obama is sworn in.

Quit crying the fuggin victim card that day.



I must confess that I have no idea what that means. But I gotta give you credit, you say it with complete conviction!

I'm pretty sure most of us will only see/hear whining if we listen to talk radio or read internet message boards. I don't know about where you live and work, but where I live and work this stuff just doesn't come up much. Whatever happens, life will go on.

RJ
07-23-2008, 07:00 PM
Agreed. Sadly, pragmatists have played second fiddle to ideologues for quite some time.

Given the irreconcilability of those opposing ideologies, pragmatism represents the only hope for us to move forward as a nation, IMO



Which is strange, because I think pragmatists constitute a pretty large % of our voting population. I really believe that there are plenty of folks who worry more about results than we do about choosing sides. I'm not a McCain supporter right now but if he wins and does a good job I'll be a huge fan. And if Obama wins and turns out to be a bad President I'll stop being a fan.

Calcountry
07-23-2008, 07:13 PM
I must confess that I have no idea what that means. But I gotta give you credit, you say it with complete conviction!

I'm pretty sure most of us will only see/hear whining if we listen to talk radio or read internet message boards. I don't know about where you live and work, but where I live and work this stuff just doesn't come up much. Whatever happens, life will go on.Honestly it doesn't come up much where I'm at, but whenever it does, nothing ever good comes from it.

Try to keep the shit stink on the net where it belongs.

RJ
07-23-2008, 10:35 PM
Yep, quarantine is best. There's no reason to infect the entire planet.

SBK
07-24-2008, 03:49 AM
Oh im sure Obama would make off the cuff remarks about the current housing crisis and just laugh about it like nothings wrong. You really think mccain can talk without a teleprompter? The ****er cant even talk with a teleprompter. You have nothing. Every single thing you bag on Obama about Mccain has done the same or worse. That leaves me to conclude some are racist. I understand its a hard concept to grasp having a black man in the white house.

I asked my grandma (83), after hillary conceeded if she was backing obama, shes a lifelong democrat, and she says "Shit no, no NBOMB needs to be in the white house. Im for Hillary."
I was like grandma obama is the democratic nominee and she said im not voting. I realized at that moment that not only did the racism come out but the comment hillary made about older women not having a chance to see a woman president was really true. Its something that is definately a factor in this election and it shouldnt be.

Now there's something you and Obama have in common. You've both thrown your grandma's under the bus!! Way to be!

whatsmynameagain
07-24-2008, 06:53 AM
Now there's something you and Obama have in common. You've both thrown your grandma's under the bus!! Way to be!

how is that throwing her under the bus? im sure you dont have any fanily members who share a similar belief.


Posted via Mobile Device

Radar Chief
07-24-2008, 06:59 AM
You have nothing. Every single thing you bag on Obama about Mccain has done the same or worse. That leaves me to conclude some are racist. I understand its a hard concept to grasp having a black man in the white house.

So I take this as you admitting there really isn’t much difference between Gramps McAmnesty and Barack Hussein besides skin color?

SNR
07-24-2008, 07:11 AM
The fact that he [I]doesn't[I] have deep political convictions is one of the things I like best about Obama. I'm tired of politicians whose convictions and beliefs matter more to them than does our country.Then tell me how you become a good president. Even the ultimate realpolitik guy, William Gladstone, had strong political convictions.

And William Gladstone, Barack Obama ain't.

whatsmynameagain
07-24-2008, 07:18 AM
So I take this as you admitting there really isn’t much difference between Gramps McAmnesty and Barack Hussein besides skin color?

yeah, since they are both running on the same policies.

some of you goons shouldn't be allowed on the interwebz


Posted via Mobile Device

Radar Chief
07-24-2008, 07:25 AM
You’re right, that’s why I resorted to petty name calling instead of pointing out the tangible differences.

Posted via Mobile Device

FYP.

whatsmynameagain
07-24-2008, 07:39 AM
obviously my post was centered on name calling. I answered his question, if your going to act like a retard you will be called a retard. his response was weak as well as yours give me some substance rather than I know you are but what am I tactics. I guess when that's all you know, that's all you can do.FYP.


Posted via Mobile Device

Radar Chief
07-24-2008, 07:48 AM
I'm too much of a pussy to acknowledge that I don't know jack shit about the political wind bag I'm pimping.

Posted via Mobile Device

FYP, again. ROFL

***SPRAYER
07-24-2008, 08:05 AM
obviously my post was centered on name calling. I answered his question, if your going to act like a retard you will be called a retard. his response was weak as well as yours give me some substance rather than I know you are but what am I tactics. I guess when that's all you know, that's all you can do.


Posted via Mobile Device

You and your mom

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mlyonsd
07-24-2008, 08:06 AM
My biggest problem isn't really Obama but some of his supporters.

whatsmynameagain
07-24-2008, 09:23 AM
FYP, again. ROFL

petty name calling? you are seriously pathetic and again no substance. I can guarantee you im well informed on not only these candidates but all of the ones before them as well. if you want to try to prove a point be my guest and ill gladly examine it.


Posted via Mobile Device

SBK
07-24-2008, 09:35 AM
how is that throwing her under the bus? im sure you dont have any fanily members who share a similar belief.


Posted via Mobile Device

I have never had anyone in my family say anything remotely close to what you aired in public. And if I did, I would be quick to not mention it in public.

Using your grandma as an example of hate so you can look progressive, tolerant, whatever you want to call it is just wrong.

I could be wrong, maybe your grandmother is just an average white woman.

Radar Chief
07-24-2008, 09:38 AM
petty name calling? you are seriously pathetic and again no substance. I can guarantee you im well informed on not only these candidates but all of the ones before them as well. if you want to try to prove a point be my guest and ill gladly examine it.


Posted via Mobile Device


I’m simply responding in kind. What, pissed cause someone else is playing in your sand box?
If you had any substance to post, I’d assume you’d have posted it already.
Its not like you haven’t had an opportunity to do so.

***SPRAYER
07-24-2008, 09:58 AM
Using your grandma as an example of hate so you can look progressive, tolerant, whatever you want to call it is just wrong.



A few months ago all the libs were using BS anectdotes of all the things they heard in church (yeah right) to rationalize B.O. taking his family to listen to Wright for twenty years.

whatsmynameagain
07-24-2008, 10:34 AM
I have never had anyone in my family say anything remotely close to what you aired in public. And if I did, I would be quick to not mention it in public.

Using your grandma as an example of hate so you can look progressive, tolerant, whatever you want to call it is just wrong.

I could be wrong, maybe your grandmother is just an average white woman.

far from average she is an 83 year old white woman, mother of 9, 3 different husbands all died on her(no black widow comments please and no pun intended on that) who was born raised in the midwest. shes worked almost all her life(last job was at a nursing home no less, where she hadn't missed a day in the past 12 years except when her son died, only time I've seen her cry, just retired a few months back) I find her to be one of the strongest people I've ever met. with that being said I was somewhat surprised at her comment but realized it has more to do with her generation.

don't give me some bs line like you haven't a family member who has made comments like this. my grandma is completely anonymous to all of you so in no way am I throwing her under the bus. I was giving you a real life example of what I experienced in relation to posts I've made.




Posted via Mobile Device

***SPRAYER
07-24-2008, 11:09 AM
far from average she is an 83 year old white woman, mother of 9, 3 different husbands all died on her(no black widow comments please and no pun intended on that) who was born raised in the midwest. shes worked almost all her life(last job was at a nursing home no less, where she hadn't missed a day in the past 12 years except when her son died, only time I've seen her cry, just retired a few months back) I find her to be one of the strongest people I've ever met. with that being said I was somewhat surprised at her comment but realized it has more to do with her generation.

don't give me some bs line like you haven't a family member who has made comments like this. my grandma is completely anonymous to all of you so in no way am I throwing her under the bus. I was giving you a real life example of what I experienced in relation to posts I've made.




Posted via Mobile Device

Just because you and your grandmother are assholes, doesn't mean everybody else is.