PDA

View Full Version : Elections My take on McCain's VP situation.


Direckshun
07-23-2008, 02:33 PM
Inspired by a conversation I was having with SBK in another thread.

I think that, substantially, finding a younger Republican that satisfies the base to get "training on the job" during the McCain Presidency would be ideal for the GOP.

I just don't think that ticket could win, because let's face it, none of those guys right now (the best of which, in my opinion, would be John Thune from South Dakota) will get McCain ANY buzz whatsoever to counter Obama.

Right now, the entire election is over Obama. And that just spells loss for the McCain campaign. Whenever you can focus an election around one person, that person wins 90% of the time.

McCain needs headlines, and not just in negative ways, but significantly positive ways. He needs a big name on his ticket, and one that will not overshadow him as VP. Not to mention that McCain is spending a lot of his resources defending red states rather than converting blue states, and he has to do that because he base hates him.

So to review:

1. Big name to grab headlines.
2. Can't overshadow McCain.
3. Young enough to run in 4-8 years.
4. Satisfy the base, so that McCain can focus where he does best: independents.

In my opinion, two politicians fulfill this job better than any other: Mike Huckabee and (wait for it...) Condoleezza Rice. Huckabee and Rice do represent left turns for McCain substantially, but the good they do outweighs that.

Huckabee will be running again anyway if McCain loses, and Huckabee got a lot of positive buzz going about him during the primary, and defeated McCain across the south and highly religious states despite the fact that he had virtually no funding.

Huckabee actually rivals Barack Obama as a public speaker, which isn't something you can say about many other people. He also single-handedly wins over evangelicals, and does better with independents than you'd think.

Rice garners a truckload of attention, even though she represents Bush's third term. She can produce a lot of positive attention, but her biggest negative is that she will resurrect a lot of the problems from the Bush administration. Nonetheless, she is a favorite with the base. She doesn't have a lot of independent appeal yet, but she's a great attack dog and she would be sent to defend the red states while McCain worries about offense elsewhere.

I know Huckabee's shown little interest in running with McCain, and I know Condi Rice might actually vote for Obama. But I think these two do more for McCain than any other name.

Thoughts.

Chiefnj2
07-23-2008, 02:36 PM
Do you think the evangelicals would just stay home and not vote for a McCain/Romney ticket. I'm not sure you have to court them. I think they will be unhappy but will vote Republican at the end of the day no matter what.

Deberg_1990
07-23-2008, 02:36 PM
Huckabee accepted a position with FOX News a few weeks back if i remember right??

mlyonsd
07-23-2008, 02:36 PM
5. Knowing CPR might come in handy too.

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 02:38 PM
Do you think the evangelicals would just stay home and not vote for a McCain/Romney ticket. I'm not sure you have to court them. I think they will be unhappy but will vote Republican at the end of the day no matter what.
Sure they'll vote Republican, but they won't turn out in the numbers they did in 2004.

The key is really igniting them. Because evangelicals will not only be a great base for voters, they'll also work to donate and work at voter drives and will influence so many other aspects of your candidacy.

HC_Chief
07-23-2008, 02:38 PM
McCain was such a poor choice for the RNC that it would take an uber-conservative to bring the traditional R base out of their current malaise.

irishjayhawk
07-23-2008, 02:39 PM
I agree with the VP take. However, Huckabee doesn't have a shot next time. At least I don't think.

He has a knack for committing political suicide. And YouTube doesn't forget.

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 02:39 PM
Huckabee accepted a position with FOX News a few weeks back if i remember right??
Yeah.

mlyonsd
07-23-2008, 02:41 PM
Lieberman. And it should have been announced two days ago.

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 02:42 PM
Lieberman. And it should have been announced two days ago.
I've seriously thought about Lieberman. I don't think he'd be an excellent pick, but he'd be a very good one.

SBK
07-23-2008, 02:46 PM
McCain was such a poor choice for the RNC that it would take an uber-conservative to bring the traditional R base out of their current malaise.

We've both been smoking the same crack I think. LMAO

mlyonsd
07-23-2008, 02:47 PM
I've seriously thought about Lieberman. I don't think he'd be an excellent pick, but he'd be a very good one.

They could do Mathau and Lemon skits.

I think the republican base is going to be there for McCain so I don't see Lieberman hurting in that regard.

Lieberman would help with independents and some democrats. (the racist ones)

The guy already ran as a VP and if it weren't for Bush stealing the election he'd be the dem presidential candidate right now with Obama as the VP selection.

I know there are plenty of arguments against it but I don't see anyone else other than Colin Powell that might help McCain win. Any republican this year is a long shot.

And that's the view from the cheap seats.

HolmeZz
07-23-2008, 02:48 PM
Lieberman. And it should have been announced two days ago.

*crosses fingers*

That would be even worse than Romney.

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 02:51 PM
*crosses fingers*

That would be even worse than Romney.
I think Lieberman and McCain would pose an incredibly strong threat to independent voters against Obama.

McCain already has very good independent appeal. Making it a cross-ticket candidacy might actually threaten to win independents over Obama.

Of course, it would totally snub the GOP base.

SBK
07-23-2008, 02:56 PM
Of course, it would totally snub the GOP base.

He won't win without the GOP base, which makes his candidacy to this point strange.....

banyon
07-23-2008, 03:01 PM
I still think Huckabee would've been the best chance for the GOP to win as the Pres. candidate, so I agree he would be a sound strategic pick for VP.

SNR
07-23-2008, 03:37 PM
All the buzz was about Kerry in 2004, too.

Obama's still probably going to win, but it's not because he has more "buzz". He's not an insect.

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 03:47 PM
All the buzz was about Kerry in 2004, too.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

That election was all about Bush. You cannot be serious.

SNR
07-23-2008, 04:07 PM
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

That election was all about Bush. You cannot be serious.People last time, again, were emphasizing the "vote for change". Bush had a lot of negative tidbits coming in about him, too

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 04:08 PM
People last time, again, were emphasizing the "vote for change". Bush had a lot of negative tidbits coming in about him, too
Wow.

Whatever.

People weren't churning out an "Anybody But Kerry" message in 2004.

The ENTIRE election had to do with Bush and the war in Iraq.

But whatever. You remember it how you want.

BigChiefFan
07-23-2008, 04:11 PM
I don't think the republicans will endorse an INDEPENDENT for their VP-just a hunch.

NCarlsCorner2
07-23-2008, 05:01 PM
What about Carly Fiorina?

Adept Havelock
07-23-2008, 05:05 PM
What about Carly Fiorina?

Not a chance after her comments wondering why insurance covers Viagra, but not Contraception.

NCarlsCorner2
07-23-2008, 05:08 PM
Not a chance after her comments wondering why insurance covers Viagra, but not Contraception.

I dont think that would be a big deal at all.

Adept Havelock
07-23-2008, 05:11 PM
I dont think that would be a big deal at all.

Those comments won't play with many in the "Family Values" crowd, IMO. For a portion of the RTL movement, Contraception is just as much an issue as Abortion.

When she made her comments, it ended in an embarrasing set of questions for McCain. I don't think he's the "forgive and forget" type when it comes to him getting put on the spot like that.

Then of course, there's her record as a business woman. Does he really want the distraction of her spying on reporters and the other circumstances surrounding her departure from HP as part of his campaign narrative?

I don't think so.

jAZ
07-23-2008, 05:13 PM
...(wait for it...) Condoleezza Rice.

...

Rice garners a truckload of attention, even though she represents Bush's third term. She can produce a lot of positive attention, but her biggest negative is that she will resurrect a lot of the problems from the Bush administration. Nonetheless, she is a favorite with the base. She doesn't have a lot of independent appeal yet, but she's a great attack dog and she would be sent to defend the red states while McCain worries about offense elsewhere.
Rice refused to say she was voting for the Republican even though she admitted her mind was made up.

That was odd.

I wonder if she might be voting for Obama. If so, that *might* hurt her chances on a McCain ticket.

jAZ
07-23-2008, 05:14 PM
What about Carly Fiorina?

Smart money (not McCain's money) is on her, IMO. She's good. Very good. She'd pull the racist older female Hillary voters to McCain for sure.

NCarlsCorner2
07-23-2008, 05:15 PM
Those comments won't play with many in the "Family Values" crowd, IMO. For a portion of the RTL movement, Contraception is just as much an issue as Abortion.

When she made her comments, it ended in an embarrasing set of questions for McCain. I don't think he's the "forgive and forget" type when it comes to him getting put on the spot like that.

She's someone that wouldnt make McCain look old and also she would be very strong in the VP debates, she tore McCaskill up on Meet The Press.

Adept Havelock
07-23-2008, 05:16 PM
Smart money (not McCain's money) is on her, IMO. She's good. Very good. She'd pull the racist older female Hillary voters to McCain for sure.

I doubt it. McCain doesn't want his campaign to have to deal with the circumstances of her departure from HP, the spy scandal, etc.

She's someone that wouldnt make McCain look old and also she would be very strong in the VP debates, she tore McCaskill up on Meet The Press.

She would be a decent choice, if it wasn't for her HP baggage and the "Health Insurance covering Contraception" issue with the "family values" crowd. McCain needs to energize that group, not further alienate them if he wants to have a fighting chance.

I saw that episode of MTP, but really have no idea how you could score it as "tearing McCaskill" up.

HolmeZz
07-23-2008, 05:20 PM
Fiorina blew her minimal chances when she was going around and completely misrepresenting McCain's own positions.

NCarlsCorner2
07-23-2008, 05:23 PM
I doubt it. McCain doesn't want his campaign to have to deal with the circumstances of her departure from HP, the spy scandal, etc.



She would be a decent choice, if it wasn't for her HP baggage and the "Health Insurance covering Contraception" issue with the "family values" crowd. McCain needs to energize that group, not further alienate them if he wants to have a fighting chance.

I saw that episode of MTP, but really have no idea how you could score it as "tearing McCaskill" up.


McCaskill was nothing but talking points, you could tell that Fiorina had the facts when asked a question, she didnt have to look down at her talking point notes.

Adept Havelock
07-23-2008, 05:25 PM
McCaskill was nothing but talking points, you could tell that Fiorina had the facts when asked a question, she didnt have to look down at her talking point notes.

That's one opinion, I suppose. I'm not thrilled with Sen. McCaskill representing my state, but she's certainly better than some of the congresscritters MO has sent to DC. Sen. Ashcroft, who lost an election to a corpse, comes immediately to mind.

Regarding the MTP episode, I suppose you could claim only one person was going from "talking points" but I think that's a very naive position. From my perspective, it was pretty much the standard political "she said/she said", with nothing much to show for either. Granted, I don't have much support for either of them, so that may have had an effect on my perspective of the debate.

HolmeZz
07-23-2008, 05:27 PM
McCaskill was nothing but talking points, you could tell that Fiorina had the facts when asked a question, she didnt have to look down at her talking point notes.

If she 'had the facts', she wouldn't have gotten in trouble for continually distorting what McCain's own record is.

NCarlsCorner2
07-23-2008, 05:27 PM
That's one opinion, I suppose. I'm not thrilled with Claire representing my state, but she's certainly better than some of the congresscritters MO has sent to DC. Ashcroft, who lost to a corpse, comes to mind.

Again, I suppose you could claim only one person was going from "talking points" but I think that's a very naive position.


OK, how about McCaskill was more obvious.

SNR
07-23-2008, 05:30 PM
Wow.

Whatever.

People weren't churning out an "Anybody But Kerry" message in 2004.

The ENTIRE election had to do with Bush and the war in Iraq.

But whatever. You remember it how you want.Yeah. Maybe on Fox News.

Everything in the Democrat primaries was the "anything is better than Bush" line. The Bush-supporters were bound to pick any one of the lousy Democrat candidates and say, "anything but _____". A guy like Howard Dean would've been a loudmouth, a guy like Kerry was a flip-flopping underhanded politician, you name it.

I guess both sides were doing it to an extent. But once John Kerry was up, people were so intrigued if he could actually take down Bush.

That's just the way I saw things, anyway. I also wasn't that big into the news back then. Pretty much only what I saw posted on Chiefsplanet in the politics forum.

Adept Havelock
07-23-2008, 05:32 PM
OK, how about McCaskill was more obvious.

I don't see that as a negative. I would prefer it if more congresscritters were obvious instead of attempting to obscure things.

I don't see how that supports the idea that she "tore McCaskill up", but each to their own.


Everything in the Democrat primaries was the "anything is better than Bush" line.

I'm inclined to agree, which is one reason I don't see the "anything is better than Obama" approach having much success. I don't buy much of Obama's rhetoric, but it seems to have a stronger appeal (for better and worse) than the "anything is better..." approach.

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 07:18 PM
McCaskill was nothing but talking points, you could tell that Fiorina had the facts when asked a question, she didnt have to look down at her talking point notes.
Since when did you care about talking points?

You've been nothing but talking points your entire time in this forum.

Baby Lee
07-23-2008, 07:33 PM
Smart money (not McCain's money) is on her, IMO. She's good. Very good. She'd pull the racist older female Hillary voters to McCain for sure.

Does your Begala lizard brain ever take a moment off?

"Hey! Let's turn all those racist Democrats in a Republican problem, I know!! Tack 'em onto the nearest girl."

Direckshun
07-23-2008, 07:43 PM
"What I'm afraid of is that if Sen. McCain picks one more relatively boring, normal, mainstream Republican white guy... he just makes the ticket seem boring compared to the level of energy and drive and excitement that Obama has."

-- Newt Gingrich, quoted by Politico.

mlyonsd
07-24-2008, 06:38 AM
He won't win without the GOP base, which makes his candidacy to this point strange.....

The GOP base isn't going to go lightly considering they very well could face a democratic president with a filibuster proof senate.

The base will be there.

BucEyedPea
07-24-2008, 06:43 AM
The GOP base isn't going to go lightly considering they very well could face a democratic president with a filibuster proof senate.

The base will be there.

I wouldn't count on that as an absolute. A lot of Rs went into the L party. This helped elect Barr, who real Ls aren't crazy about. It will take votes. And there are some Rs that accept a defeat to Obama, hoping to clean out the party and regain seats later.

FAX
07-24-2008, 06:58 AM
This is the craziest presidential election I can remember. And now there's another wild card in the deck. Here's how I envision this playing out:

According to a recent Bible Code discovery, McCain will not make it through to the election (possibly not even the nomination). The Code indicates that he will drop out over health issues and his VP choice will take his place as the Republican nominee. On top of that, Obama's media presence will backfire as his every move is scrutinized. He will make a major mistake somewhere along the way which will tip the scales away from his candidacy. Then, as the Libertarian candidate skims a portion of the Independent vote away from Obama, McCain's VP selection will win the election to become the next President Of The United States.

FAX

mlyonsd
07-24-2008, 07:03 AM
I wouldn't count on that as an absolute. A lot of Rs went into the L party. This helped elect Barr, who real Ls aren't crazy about. It will take votes. And there are some Rs that accept a defeat to Obama, hoping to clean out the party and regain seats later.
Aren't you one of those about a year ago predicting McCain's campaign was dead?

mlyonsd
07-24-2008, 07:04 AM
This is the craziest presidential election I can remember. And now there's another wild card in the deck. Here's how I envision this playing out:

According to a recent Bible Code discovery, McCain will not make it through to the election (possibly not even the nomination). The Code indicates that he will drop out over health issues and his VP choice will take his place as the Republican nominee. On top of that, Obama's media presence will backfire as his every move is scrutinized. He will make a major mistake somewhere along the way which will tip the scales away from his candidacy. Then, as the Libertarian candidate skims a portion of the Independent vote away from Obama, McCain's VP selection will win the election to become the next President Of The United States.

FAX

In that scenario I'd hope McCain would pick John Thune.

Direckshun
07-24-2008, 01:00 PM
I think Thune would ideally be the best fit for a McCain candidacy.

But I don't think it would win.