PDA

View Full Version : U.S. Issues Should Illegals have a Drivers Lic


HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 10:06 AM
Do You Agree With Barack Obama That Illegal Aliens Should Be Allowed To Have Driver's Licenses?


You Tube

Barack Obama: Driver's Licenses For Illegal Aliens?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNvdOYl63q0


Are driver's licenses a right or a privilege? Should those who broke the law get this privilege? Are the supporters of driver's licenses for illegal aliens attempting to try and open the door to allow illegal aliens to vote?

chiefforlife
07-29-2008, 10:25 AM
Absolutely NOT! This is a ridiculous position. Obama is WAY TOO SOFT on illegal immigration. One thing that really pisses me off about him.

How does someone here illegally get permission to drive around on our streets and highways. I think we should tell them to come in for a DL, then deport them.

Bugeater
07-29-2008, 10:32 AM
My first thought was **** NO! But after thinking it thru, since we're obviously not going to do anything about them being here, and they're probably going to drive anyway, we might as well make sure they have some clue how to operate a motor vehicle in a safe manner.

banyon
07-29-2008, 10:34 AM
No. But unfortunately "Mr. Amnesty" McCain is no better on this issue.

HC_Chief
07-29-2008, 10:38 AM
No. But unfortunately "Mr. Amnesty" McCain is no better on this issue.

BINGO

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 10:39 AM
Does McCain support drivers licences and free health care for all illegals like Obama?

HC_Chief
07-29-2008, 10:40 AM
Does McCain support drivers licences and free health care for all illegals like Obama?

Apparently so, as his position has pretty much been amnesty for illegals.

chiefforlife
07-29-2008, 10:40 AM
No. But unfortunately "Mr. Amnesty" McCain is no better on this issue.

Agreed.

Radar Chief
07-29-2008, 10:41 AM
BINGO, Gringo.

FYP. ;)

HC_Chief
07-29-2008, 10:42 AM
FYP. ;)

It's an improvement. Nice job :thumb:

Radar Chief
07-29-2008, 10:42 AM
No. But unfortunately "Mr. Amnesty" McCain is no better on this issue.

Part of why Iím probably voting 3rd party or write in.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 10:42 AM
Apparently so, as his position has pretty much been amnesty for illegals.

I dont believe they have the "same position". And on health care for all illegals, they have wide difference.

banyon
07-29-2008, 10:43 AM
Does McCain support drivers licences and free health care for all illegals like Obama?

McCain supports Amnesty, so after they're forgiven they'd be free to get licenses or whatever else they wanted.

He's also against giving health care to anyone, so illegals would be treated the same as regular people who can't afford treatment.

Donger
07-29-2008, 10:46 AM
Yes, they should be granted drivers licenses. They are already here working anyway. Why not give them the tools they need to become productive citizens?

banyon
07-29-2008, 10:48 AM
Yes, they should be granted drivers licenses. They are already here working anyway. Why not give them the tools they need to become productive citizens?

STOP IT. ROFL

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 10:49 AM
How will they deal with Motor Voter Registration. I suppose thats an Obama plan to also allow them the vote?

banyon
07-29-2008, 10:52 AM
How will they deal with Motor Voter Registration. I suppose thats an Obama plan to also allow them the vote?

Huh?
:spock:

Programmer
07-29-2008, 10:58 AM
I do not support amnesty for illegal aliens, but if that comes to pass are they just going to open the country up and let anyone come in?

I have trouble with those in the U.S. that do not understand what illegal alien is all about.

What will be the cost to the U.S. if amnesty is granted to all illegals?

My generation may not have the severe impact that the younger generation may have. As it is we are using money we do not have, what will happen in the next administration when you find the deficit gets larger in the same manner it has been in the past? Who will be to blame then?

Programmer
07-29-2008, 10:59 AM
How will they deal with Motor Voter Registration. I suppose thats an Obama plan to also allow them the vote?

If you have a government sanctioned ID it could lead to illegals voting. I don't remember having to provide proof of citizenship when I registered to vote, only my drivers license.

StcChief
07-29-2008, 11:02 AM
Drivers lic?? Illegals should be deported.

Donger
07-29-2008, 11:08 AM
Drivers lic?? Illegals should be deported.

Yes, let's round them up and ship them off to internment camps, eh? I hope you have "your papers" handy when The Gestapo (i.e., ICE) comes knocking on your door.

StcChief
07-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Yes, let's round them up and ship them off to internment camps, eh? I hope you have "your papers" handy when The Gestapo (i.e., ICE) comes knocking on your door.
I do, they are handy just waiting....

seriously. The Illegals don't wanna be identified, makes it easy for INS to find 'em.

Skip Towne
07-29-2008, 11:18 AM
Yes, let's round them up and ship them off to internment camps, eh? I hope you have "your papers" handy when The Gestapo (i.e., ICE) comes knocking on your door.

Ship them off to Donger's garage instead.

Programmer
07-29-2008, 11:58 AM
Ship them off to Donger's garage instead.


WE HAVE A WINNER!

Saulbadguy
07-29-2008, 12:03 PM
They are going to drive anyways. Might as well.

Donger
07-29-2008, 12:04 PM
Ship them off to Donger's garage instead.

Considering my garage is occupied by what it is supposed to be occupied with, I'm afraid that I don't have room.

Chiefnj2
07-29-2008, 12:06 PM
Considering my garage is occupied by what it is supposed to be occupied with, I'm afraid that I don't have room.

Dead hookers?

Skip Towne
07-29-2008, 12:11 PM
Considering my garage is occupied by what it is supposed to be occupied with, I'm afraid that I don't have room.

You must not know much about them. I'll bet they could squeezee at least two families in there.

Programmer
07-29-2008, 12:14 PM
You must not know much about them. I'll bet they could squeezee at least two families in there.

That is if it is just a one car garage too. If it's two or more it could be considered a resort!

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 01:35 PM
I do support them having driver's licenses.

jAZ
07-29-2008, 01:39 PM
My first thought was **** NO! But after thinking it thru, since we're obviously not going to do anything about them being here, and they're probably going to drive anyway, we might as well make sure they have some clue how to operate a motor vehicle in a safe manner.

You hate America.

mlyonsd
07-29-2008, 01:40 PM
Charge them $100/month and the penalty for driving without one 6 months picking up trash on the local interstate. Winter or summer.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 01:42 PM
Will they have proof of Insurance? Or is that part of the Obama program as well?

Hydrae
07-29-2008, 01:48 PM
No

I don't get how these people are given access to social services and the like as it is. I am not in the deport all of them now crowd by an means but how does someone without a valid form of US identification get access to these things? I pretty much guarantee that I would not be allowed any of this stuff if I couldn't provide ID to prove who I am and I was born here as were my parents and their parents.

And in answer to the question in the OP, driving is a privilege, not a right! Otherwise we wouldn't test potential drivers, we wouldn't have a leg to stand on when suspending a license for infractions, etc.

Donger
07-29-2008, 01:52 PM
You hate America.

Do you agree with Barack Hussein's position on this issue?

vailpass
07-29-2008, 01:52 PM
Hell no.

Would the DL for an illegal have a sideways picture and an overlay that identified them as an illegal?
Something like they do for those who are not old enough to drink?

A DL is a secure enough form of ID that it can be used to register to vote, open a bank account, cash a check, board an airplane, etc.

If you didn't make sure the illegals couldn't abuse the DL then the above processes would have to change and citizens would no longer be able to use our DLs. We would then have to go through the trouble and expense of creating a separate form of national ID for citizens.

Yet another form of expense and inconvenience brought to you by the illegals. What do you expect of someone whose very first act upon entering this country was to break the law?

Chiefnj2
07-29-2008, 01:59 PM
I remember when Illegal Immigration was the backbone of the Republican 2008 campaign. Then McCain became the presumptive candidate and then immigration fell off the face of the earth as an important issue.

banyon
07-29-2008, 02:01 PM
Will they have proof of Insurance? Or is that part of the Obama program as well?

Car insurance? They have to have that now. That wouldn't be affected one way or the other.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:01 PM
McCain is opposed to them having Drivers Licences. But thats ok Rant on

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:01 PM
Car insurance? They have to have that now. That wouldn't be affected one way or the other.

to quote you...Huh?

Programmer
07-29-2008, 02:05 PM
Car insurance? They have to have that now. That wouldn't be affected one way or the other.

So how many of the 20 million illegals have drivers licences and insurance?

It sounds like you have a line on that one. Percentages would be fine.

Licensed
insured

unlicensed
insured

licensed
uninsured

unlicensed
uninsured

Donger
07-29-2008, 02:09 PM
Car insurance? They have to have that now. That wouldn't be affected one way or the other.

Have to have that now? You mean it's law?

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:11 PM
Have to have that now? You mean it's law?

In Missouri you must show proof of Insurance to get a Drivers Lic. No idea what Kansas law is.

banyon
07-29-2008, 02:13 PM
to quote you...Huh?

Well, it's your vague question I was trying to answer, so maybe you should clarify that first.

Will they have proof of Insurance? Or is that part of the Obama program as well?

If you weren't asking if they had to have proof of auto insurance, I really don't have any clue what you were rambling on about.

banyon
07-29-2008, 02:13 PM
McCain is opposed to them having Drivers Licences. But thats ok Rant on

McCain is for Amnesty. Once you get Amnesty, you'd have the same rights as everyone else. What's so hard to understand about that?

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:14 PM
I really don't have any clue.

We agree

mlyonsd
07-29-2008, 02:15 PM
SD you don't need proof of insurance to get a license but you must be able to prove it if you're stopped when driving.

banyon
07-29-2008, 02:16 PM
So how many of the 20 million illegals have drivers licences and insurance?

It sounds like you have a line on that one. Percentages would be fine.

At least in my jurisdiction:

Licensed 25% (through fake documents)
insured

unlicensed 20% (usually because someone else --------------------------------officially owns the car and keeps insurance)
insured

licensed 10-15% (fake docs, but forgot to pay ins.)
uninsured

unlicensed 50-55%
uninsured

banyon
07-29-2008, 02:17 PM
We agree

Great job. Really impressive.

Your intellectual contributions to this forum continue to impress. :thumb:

banyon
07-29-2008, 02:18 PM
Also Wisconsin doesn't require insurance at all unless you've been in an accident or failed to pay court fines.

Nightfyre
07-29-2008, 02:21 PM
I vote we lure them under the guise of giving them drivers licenses; then deport them.

PastorMikH
07-29-2008, 02:24 PM
For some reason, no matter how I turn this over in my mind, the word "ILLEGAL" keeps popping up. Isn't a DMV office a government office? Isn't the person wearing a badge that you take your test with some sort of peace officer? Wouldn't it be more prudent for them to excerise their authority and call immigration?

When I was 16 I had to have my birth certificate, SS card, and another form of ID to get licensed. Add in, if my driver's license lapses, I have to take 2-3 forms of identification AND my birth certificate to the DMV to prove I am who I say I am before my license can be renewed - thanks to the homeland security act and the effort to keep terrorist from moving into and setting up in our country. How would an illegal alien produce credible documents to prove they are who they say they are? What would keep a potential terrorist from going through the same process to get set up here?

Now, I have no problem whatsoever with LEGAL aliens who have come to our country from any other country through the proper channels to be allowed to obtain driver's licenses.

Donger
07-29-2008, 02:27 PM
Now, I have no problem whatsoever with LEGAL aliens who have come to our country from any other country through the proper channels to be allowed to obtain driver's licenses.

Gee, thanks Adolf.

2bikemike
07-29-2008, 02:28 PM
Hell no, they should not be allowed drivers licenses, that just legitimizes they're being here. I am against amnesty as well. Grant this group amnesty and you invite others to follow in their foot steps. Then we would end up granting them amnesty as well.

Programmer
07-29-2008, 02:31 PM
At least in my jurisdiction:

Licensed 25% (through fake documents)
insured

unlicensed 20% (usually because someone else --------------------------------officially owns the car and keeps insurance)
insured

licensed 10-15% (fake docs, but forgot to pay ins.)
uninsured

unlicensed 50-55%
uninsured

So, in your jurisdiction what are the efforts to take down those driving illegally?

2bikemike
07-29-2008, 02:33 PM
For some reason, no matter how I turn this over in my mind, the word "ILLEGAL" keeps popping up. Isn't a DMV office a government office? Isn't the person wearing a badge that you take your test with some sort of peace officer? Wouldn't it be more prudent for them to excerise their authority and call immigration?

When I was 16 I had to have my birth certificate, SS card, and another form of ID to get licensed. Add in, if my driver's license lapses, I have to take 2-3 forms of identification AND my birth certificate to the DMV to prove I am who I say I am before my license can be renewed - thanks to the homeland security act and the effort to keep terrorist from moving into and setting up in our country. How would an illegal alien produce credible documents to prove they are who they say they are? What would keep a potential terrorist from going through the same process to get set up here?

Now, I have no problem whatsoever with LEGAL aliens who have come to our country from any other country through the proper channels to be allowed to obtain driver's licenses.

Thats just too damn logical. BTW I had to have similar info to go with my I-9 form to get my job. I thought that was the law.

Problem is we don't enforce the laws we have. Its a totally hosed up system. I can drive down the street and see a half a dozen or so illegals sitting at a corner gas station waiting for someone to come pick them up for day labor. Why doesn't the INS folks swing by some morning? Its total BS.

DJJasonp
07-29-2008, 02:56 PM
Thats just too damn logical. BTW I had to have similar info to go with my I-9 form to get my job. I thought that was the law.

Problem is we don't enforce the laws we have. Its a totally hosed up system. I can drive down the street and see a half a dozen or so illegals sitting at a corner gas station waiting for someone to come pick them up for day labor. Why doesn't the INS folks swing by some morning? Its total BS.

I hear ya...

Probably a case of not having enough border patrol agents.....in addition, when they do round up illegals and take them back to Mexico....in many cases, they're back within a month.

What people dont seem to get with this debate is....illegal immigrants arent going to register for a driver's license....they WANT to stay "off the grid". The longer they can avoid paying any kind of tax towards the city/state/federal governments....the better for them (the more money they can send back to Mexico to supplement that country's economy instead of ours).

Both are being used (our country by illegal immigrants....and the immigrants by cheating businesses for cheap labor).

This is why there is no good solution (maybe other than actually protecting our border)....because the illegals do not want to give up any of their wages towards taxes....and cheating businesses dont want to lose their cheap labor.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 03:13 PM
I hear ya...

Probably a case of not having enough border patrol agents.....in addition, when they do round up illegals and take them back to Mexico....in many cases, they're back within a month.

What people dont seem to get with this debate is....illegal immigrants arent going to register for a driver's license....they WANT to stay "off the grid". The longer they can avoid paying any kind of tax towards the city/state/federal governments....the better for them (the more money they can send back to Mexico to supplement that country's economy instead of ours).

Both are being used (our country by illegal immigrants....and the immigrants by cheating businesses for cheap labor).

This is why there is no good solution (maybe other than actually protecting our border)....because the illegals do not want to give up any of their wages towards taxes....and cheating businesses dont want to lose their cheap labor.

Much of that is true. However, when free health care for all illegals and dependents are on the table under Obama, we will see a massive change to get the social services. And you pay.

2bikemike
07-29-2008, 03:28 PM
I hear ya...

Probably a case of not having enough border patrol agents.....in addition, when they do round up illegals and take them back to Mexico....in many cases, they're back within a month.

What people dont seem to get with this debate is....illegal immigrants arent going to register for a driver's license....they WANT to stay "off the grid". The longer they can avoid paying any kind of tax towards the city/state/federal governments....the better for them (the more money they can send back to Mexico to supplement that country's economy instead of ours).

Both are being used (our country by illegal immigrants....and the immigrants by cheating businesses for cheap labor).

This is why there is no good solution (maybe other than actually protecting our border)....because the illegals do not want to give up any of their wages towards taxes....and cheating businesses dont want to lose their cheap labor.

Thats why I want enforcement to go after those that hire illegals. Stick it to them and I guarantee they won't be hiring anymore. No jobs and the immigrant will either become legal or they will go home.

It just baffles the hell out of me why city cops or county sherriffs can't round them up. They are breaking the law and my tax dollars are paying LE to uphold the law.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 03:34 PM
Thats why I want enforcement to go after those that hire illegals. Stick it to them and I guarantee they won't be hiring anymore. No jobs and the immigrant will either become legal or they will go home.

It just baffles the hell out of me why city cops or county sherriffs can't round them up. They are breaking the law and my tax dollars are paying LE to uphold the law.


My understanding is they can but local administration says no they wont if the feds dont compensate them....aint that great reasoning?

banyon
07-29-2008, 03:48 PM
So, in your jurisdiction what are the efforts to take down those driving illegally?

We prosecute them as we would anyone without a license or insurance.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 03:55 PM
If they violate the law and you prosecute them and they are here illegally, what effort is made to turn them over to immigration?

Programmer
07-29-2008, 04:21 PM
We prosecute them as we would anyone without a license or insurance.

So basically you are saying no foul no harm? If they are not breaking any law ( other than being illegal) nothing is done?

Bugeater
07-29-2008, 04:32 PM
For some reason, no matter how I turn this over in my mind, the word "ILLEGAL" keeps popping up.
Is it really illegal if no one is enforcing the law?

Midnight_Vulture
07-29-2008, 04:53 PM
Liberals are turning this country into a third world country...congrats libs.

I hope an illegal alien hits into your hybrid and he doesnt have car insurance.

banyon
07-29-2008, 05:36 PM
So basically you are saying no foul no harm? If they are not breaking any law ( other than being illegal) nothing is done?

There's no state law against entering the country illegally. I can only prosecute them for state crimes they commit. I'd really like to, but my Court doesn't have any jurisdiction.

banyon
07-29-2008, 05:39 PM
If they violate the law and you prosecute them and they are here illegally, what effort is made to turn them over to immigration?

I'm kind of irked wth ICE (Immigrations and Customs Enforcement). Basically they spin a wheel and if it lands on the right color you get deported.

I have convicted felons that they refuse to deport, then they'll randomly grab people before I've even sentenced them. Then they'll deport our victims that are witnesses in important cases against other, more dangerous illegal felons (sometimes netting that POS an acquittal). They will not take calls or special requests unless someone is basically Scarface. They're worthless.

vailpass
07-29-2008, 05:43 PM
I'm kind of irked wth ICE (Immigrations and Customs Enforcement). Basically they spin a wheel and if it lands on the right color you get deported.

I have convicted felons that they refuse to deport, then they'll randomly grab people before I've even sentenced them. Then they'll deport our victims that are witnesses in important cases against other, more dangerous illegal felons (sometimes netting that POS an acquittal). They will not take calls or special requests unless someone is basically Scarface. They're worthless.

That is so ****ed up, I feel your frustration.
Phoenix PD and ICE are on opposite sides of the fence here. The Sheriff's office is trying ti pick up the slack.
Sheriff Joe is quite a character.

banyon
07-29-2008, 05:48 PM
That is so ****ed up, I feel your frustration.
Phoenix PD and ICE are on opposite sides of the fence here. The Sheriff's office is trying ti pick up the slack.
Sheriff Joe is quite a character.

Our local city council opposed a request from the Feds to locate a new regional ICE office here. The closest office then is in Wichita, and they don't feel like coming out here all that often. Our city council is owned by the packing plants.

How f***ed up is that?

CrazyPhuD
07-29-2008, 05:53 PM
I think we absolutely should allow them DL. Because then we have their addresses. With those we can send them notices that they won a free boat in our competition. When the arrive to collect it we can deport them. It works out pretty well for people with arrest warrents, so why not illegals? :shrug:

DJJasonp
07-29-2008, 07:58 PM
Thats why I want enforcement to go after those that hire illegals. Stick it to them and I guarantee they won't be hiring anymore. No jobs and the immigrant will either become legal or they will go home.

It just baffles the hell out of me why city cops or county sherriffs can't round them up. They are breaking the law and my tax dollars are paying LE to uphold the law.

It's all about votes my friend....ESPECIALLY here in California. With the latino vote becoming larger and larger, no elected official (or running for office official) wants to come right out and say "I'm going to end illegal immigration".

In addition....what elected offical wants to be blamed for joe average citizen having to pay 50% more for their lettuce, fruits, etc.??? Because that would be what would happen (or worse) if we ever really stuck it to the businesses who hire illegals.

Glenn Beck had a guy on tonight from Arkansas talking about this very same issue - the prosecutions against businesses in these cases are very difficult to prove (proving the ownership was aware of the illegal hirings, etc.).

Beck and his guest both referred to illegal immigrant labor in this country to modern-day slavery. And I dont disagree.

If there are really devils in this situation....it's the businesses who hire illegals...and the governments who dont do anything about it.

2bikemike
07-29-2008, 09:10 PM
It's all about votes my friend....ESPECIALLY here in California. With the latino vote becoming larger and larger, no elected official (or running for office official) wants to come right out and say "I'm going to end illegal immigration".

In addition....what elected offical wants to be blamed for joe average citizen having to pay 50% more for their lettuce, fruits, etc.??? Because that would be what would happen (or worse) if we ever really stuck it to the businesses who hire illegals.
Glenn Beck had a guy on tonight from Arkansas talking about this very same issue - the prosecutions against businesses in these cases are very difficult to prove (proving the ownership was aware of the illegal hirings, etc.).

Beck and his guest both referred to illegal immigrant labor in this country to modern-day slavery. And I dont disagree.

If there are really devils in this situation....it's the businesses who hire illegals...and the governments who dont do anything about it.

I have no problem with allowing guest workers. There should be a way to license and track people who come to the US to work. They are here for a period of time and they go home.

Jenson71
07-29-2008, 09:17 PM
I have no problem with allowing guest workers. There should be a way to license and track people who come to the US to work. They are here for a period of time and they go home.

My understanding is that very few guest worker visas are allowed to those workers who have less than a BA equivalent in their home country. I think we should allow for a lot more than a tiny number to be able to do that.

Otter
07-30-2008, 12:51 AM
Last I read somewhere around 80% of American CITIZENS feel the exact same way everyone here does but our government (of the people, for the people) seems to know what's best for us whether we like or not.

Here's some links where you can fax you representatives for FREE:

<meta http-equiv="CONTENT-TYPE" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><title></title><meta name="GENERATOR" content="OpenOffice.org 2.3 (Linux)"> <style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { size: 8.5in 11in; margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } --> </style> http://www.numbersusa.org


http://www.alipac.us


http://www.numbersusa.com/about/goals.html


http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer


http://grassfire.org/

Ultra Peanut
07-30-2008, 02:31 AM
A) Obama has state, time and again, that it's an issue that will be settled on a state-by-state basis.

B) Is it really any better to have people driving around WITHOUT having passed any sort of evaluation? Woohoo, we can pretend we had no idea there were lots of illegal aliens if we just don't issue licenses to them! It'd be like they didn't exist at all!

Guru
07-30-2008, 03:08 AM
no

Otter
07-30-2008, 04:18 AM
A) Obama has state, time and again, that it's an issue that will be settled on a state-by-state basis.

B) Is it really any better to have people driving around WITHOUT having passed any sort of evaluation? Woohoo, we can pretend we had no idea there were lots of illegal aliens if we just don't issue licenses to them! It'd be like they didn't exist at all!

a. Can you provide a link to this?

b. There are drivers out there who shouldn't be driving because of a DUI, traffic accident and various other reasons the PRIVILEGE has been revoked from them as well. Shall we grant those poor victims amnesty?

There is no difference between someone who decides they are above immigration laws than someone who decides they are above tax laws, traffic laws, gun laws, property laws, assault laws or drug laws laws.

Ultra Peanut
07-30-2008, 06:57 AM
a. Can you provide a link to this?Having trouble isolating quotes about the state issue from the rest of the articles covering the topic, actually, but the simple fact is that licenses are handed out by the state. Ergo, the president is going to have a hard time doing much about this relatively minor issue either way.

b. There are drivers out there who shouldn't be driving because of a DUI, traffic accident and various other reasons the PRIVILEGE has been revoked from them as well. Shall we grant those poor victims amnesty?

There is no difference between someone who decides they are above immigration laws than someone who decides they are above tax laws, traffic laws, gun laws, property laws, assault laws or drug laws laws.Illegal immigration is not a criminal offense. It's not punishable under the US criminal code.

Additionally, people don't decide to drive drunk because they're trying to support their starving families. Comparing the two is wholly preposterous.

This is a safety issue, not an amnesty issue. Would you rather undocumented workers just hop onto the same road as you WITHOUT passing a driving test and having insurance?

Immigration reform is the real issue, not this piddling shit that'll work itself out.

Otter
07-30-2008, 07:26 AM
Additionally, people don't decide to drive drunk because they're trying to support their starving families. Comparing the two is wholly preposterous.

For every one poster family who wants to work hard to improve there life and feed their family there is an illegal immigrant who want to abuse the welfare and medical system so they can live 15 to a house without ever working while pumping out kids they can't affoad.

I've read many of your posts, don't be selectively cynical on what agenda groups will have you believe.

bkkcoh
07-30-2008, 07:51 AM
Do You Agree With Barack Obama That Illegal Aliens Should Be Allowed To Have Driver's Licenses?


You Tube

Barack Obama: Driver's Licenses For Illegal Aliens?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNvdOYl63q0


Are driver's licenses a right or a privilege? Should those who broke the law get this privilege? Are the supporters of driver's licenses for illegal aliens attempting to try and open the door to allow illegal aliens to vote?

Nope.

HonestChieffan
07-30-2008, 07:53 AM
Illegal immigration is not a criminal offense. It's not punishable under the US criminal code.



Therein lies a good first step. Its high time we establish that "Illegal" is illegal. Against the law as it were.

banyon
07-30-2008, 07:55 AM
Illegal immigration is not a criminal offense. It's not punishable under the US criminal code.

Hiring illegal aliens is a criminal offense.

Radar Chief
07-30-2008, 07:58 AM
Is it really any better to have people driving around WITHOUT having passed any sort of evaluation? Woohoo, we can pretend we had no idea there were lots of illegal aliens if we just don't issue licenses to them! It'd be like they didn't exist at all!

So let me get this straight.
Refusing to give licenses to people here illegally is ignoring the issue while handing out licenses to those same people here illegally is addressing their illegal presence? :spock:
And you werenít smoking crack before posting that, or am I assuming too much? :hmmm:

Ultra Peanut
07-30-2008, 08:14 AM
So let me get this straight.
Refusing to give licenses to people here illegally is ignoring the issue while handing out licenses to those same people here illegally is addressing their illegal presence? :spock:
And you werenít smoking crack before posting that, or am I assuming too much? :hmmm:Hmm, yes. I see you've accessed the post in which I claim that illegal aliens being tested for licenses will fix the problem of illegal immigration. Unfortunately, that post is located in an alternate universe, so I cannot retrieve it at this time.

Radar Chief
07-30-2008, 08:58 AM
Hmm, yes. I see you've accessed the post in which I claim that illegal aliens being tested for licenses will fix the problem of illegal immigration. Unfortunately, that post is located in an alternate universe, so I cannot retrieve it at this time.

Must be, cause that's not what I posted. Care to try again?

DJJasonp
07-30-2008, 09:02 AM
[QUOTE=Ultra Peanut;4878671]
Illegal immigration is not a criminal offense. It's not punishable under the US criminal code.

QUOTE]

U.S. Code as of: 01/03/05
Section 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the
purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be
imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than
$250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise
for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws
shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance
with title 18, or both.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=8&sec=1325

Ultra Peanut
07-30-2008, 09:07 AM
U.S. Code as of: 01/03/05
Section 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.

DJJasonp
07-30-2008, 09:11 AM
I understand the difference between civil/criminal.

Just posting the law for info purposes.

vailpass
07-30-2008, 09:43 AM
Having trouble isolating quotes about the state issue from the rest of the articles covering the topic, actually, but the simple fact is that licenses are handed out by the state. Ergo, the president is going to have a hard time doing much about this relatively minor issue either way.

Illegal immigration is not a criminal offense. It's not punishable under the US criminal code.

Additionally, people don't decide to drive drunk because they're trying to support their starving families. Comparing the two is wholly preposterous.

This is a safety issue, not an amnesty issue. Would you rather undocumented workers just hop onto the same road as you WITHOUT passing a driving test and having insurance?

Immigration reform is the real issue, not this piddling shit that'll work itself out.

You have absolutely no idea of that which you speak. Bring your sorry ass to Phoenix or any other major illegal haven and see the reality of the situation.

Do you work? Do you support yourself?

Redrum_69
07-30-2008, 09:44 AM
illegals shouldnt have drivers licenses.


period

Otter
07-30-2008, 10:17 AM
You have absolutely no idea of that which you speak. Bring your sorry ass to Phoenix or any other major illegal haven and see the reality of the situation.

Do you work? Do you support yourself?

You mean all illegal immigrants are not law abiding, hard working, looking to better their lives victims of circumstance who just came here work hard and contribute like so many pro-immigration groups want us to believe?

Many of them are actually lazy leeches?

GASP!!!!

Some people love their guilt just like they were taught to.

vailpass
07-30-2008, 10:49 AM
You mean all illegal immigrants are not law abiding, hard working, looking to better their lives victims of circumstance who just came here work hard and contribute like so many pro-immigration groups want us to believe?

Many of them are actually lazy leeches?

GASP!!!!

Some people love their guilt just like they were taught to.

Isn't that the truth.

Cntrygal
07-31-2008, 07:32 PM
No.

They all should be deported and their country of origin should be charged whatever associated costs it takes to do it.

BigMeatballDave
08-01-2008, 01:34 AM
They are going to drive anyways. Might as well.So, driving while intoxicated should also be made legal?

BigMeatballDave
08-01-2008, 01:34 AM
I do support them having driver's licenses.Completely retarded

BigMeatballDave
08-01-2008, 01:37 AM
SD you don't need proof of insurance to get a license but you must be able to prove it if you're stopped when driving.Same here in Ohio.

BigMeatballDave
08-01-2008, 01:39 AM
For some reason, no matter how I turn this over in my mind, the word "ILLEGAL" keeps popping up. Isn't a DMV office a government office? Isn't the person wearing a badge that you take your test with some sort of peace officer? Wouldn't it be more prudent for them to excerise their authority and call immigration?

When I was 16 I had to have my birth certificate, SS card, and another form of ID to get licensed. Add in, if my driver's license lapses, I have to take 2-3 forms of identification AND my birth certificate to the DMV to prove I am who I say I am before my license can be renewed - thanks to the homeland security act and the effort to keep terrorist from moving into and setting up in our country. How would an illegal alien produce credible documents to prove they are who they say they are? What would keep a potential terrorist from going through the same process to get set up here?

Now, I have no problem whatsoever with LEGAL aliens who have come to our country from any other country through the proper channels to be allowed to obtain driver's licenses.:clap:

Fruit Ninja
08-01-2008, 02:06 AM
Well, from someone in the know. This is how i know. I do pay roll for a labor contracting company. I insert I-9's and i get to deal with all the alien resident cards. SHIT is NOT fun. (**** you to the people that are named "Juan Paco Ramirez and his friend Paco Juan Ramirez" Yes shit like that happens) hah. Anyways, if they don't bring me their I-9's and their Alien Resident cards, they get no check. lol

Alot of them are legal, i am sure there are some companies that hire and pay them under the tables, but its NOT like before. The guy i work for tells me, oh you cant do that shit anymore. You get caught, you have to pay MAJOR fines talking 10-20 grand. lol

So me being Mexican i vote for NO. Try to get a damn working green card like the rest.

Guru
08-01-2008, 02:16 AM
Well, from someone in the know. This is how i know. I do pay roll for a labor contracting company. I insert I-9's and i get to deal with all the alien resident cards. SHIT is NOT fun. (**** you to the people that are named "Juan Paco Ramirez and his friend Paco Juan Ramirez" Yes shit like that happens) hah. Anyways, if they don't bring me their I-9's and their Alien Resident cards, they get no check. lol

Alot of them are legal, i am sure there are some companies that hire and pay them under the tables, but its NOT like before. The guy i work for tells me, oh you cant do that shit anymore. You get caught, you have to pay MAJOR fines talking 10-20 grand. lol

So me being Mexican i vote for NO. Try to get a damn working green card like the rest.
:clap::clap::clap:

cardken
08-01-2008, 04:33 PM
A) Obama has state, time and again, that it's an issue that will be settled on a state-by-state basis.

B) Is it really any better to have people driving around WITHOUT having passed any sort of evaluation? Woohoo, we can pretend we had no idea there were lots of illegal aliens if we just don't issue licenses to them! It'd be like they didn't exist at all!

Thus not risking votes come election time, Classic Washington move, don't upset any potential voters, let the states play the badguy, we'll sit up here in our ivory towers and pretend all is fine.

Ultra Peanut
08-01-2008, 10:13 PM
Thus not risking votes come election time, Classic Washington move, don't upset any potential voters, let the states play the badguy, we'll sit up here in our ivory towers and pretend all is fine.That plus the tiny issue of it actually being a matter that will be dealt with on the state level.