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View Full Version : Elections The prayer...turns out Obama Leaked it!


HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 12:34 PM
Phoney is as phoney does.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13021.htm

Paper, rapped for outing Obama note, claims campaign pre-approved leak
By Israel Insider staff July 28, 2008

What initially seemed to be a journalistic scoop of dubious moral propriety now seems to be a case of an Israeli paper being played by the Barack Obama campaign. Maariv, the second most popular newspaper in Israel, was roundly criticized for publishing the note Obama left in the Kotel. But now a Maariv spokesperson says that publication of the note was pre-approved for international publication by the Obama campaign, leading to the conclusion that the "private" prayer was intentionally leaked for public consumption.

At around 5am last Thursday, Obama arrived at the Kotel, or Western Wall, abutting the holiest site in Judaism, the Temple Mount. Accompanied by the Rabbi in charge of the site, Shmuel Rabinovich, he reportedly heard Psalm 122, which contains a prayer for the peace of Jerusalem, touched the wall briefly and then deposited a note of prayer into a crack between the ancient stones, in keeping with the tradition of visitors to the site. On his way out, he was briefly heckled, with one man calling out that "Jerusalem is not for sale" and "Remember what you see here." Trying to drown out the critics, a few supporters chanted his name.



Subsequently, it was reported that a yeshiva student filched the note that Obama placed in the wall and then Maariv published it in the next day's newspaper.

For that "scoop" the paper has come under fire. Yediot Aharonot, the country's most popular daily, published an article Friday saying it had also obtained the note but decided not to publish it, to respect Obama's privacy. Other Israeli media outlets initially ignored the story, or picked it up only after the initial publication had triggered a controversy.
"Lord - Protect my family and me," reads the note.

"Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will."

However, it now appears that Maariv had collaborated with the Obama campaign in getting the "private" prayer, with its "modest" supplicaton to the Lord, out to the public, buffing his Christian credentials and showing his "humility."

A Ma'ariv spokesman was quoted in the Jerusalem Post as saying that "Barack Obama's note was approved for publication in the international media even before he put in the Kotel, a short time after he wrote it at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem."]

The paper added that is was "pleased" with its "journalistic accomplishment."

[Update as to Maariv's statement as published in Haaretz on July 28]: "Obama's note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem."]

If correct, It appears that Obama made Maariv and other media an instrument of his will. The media, of course, was a most willing tool.

The campaign might be less pleased with another pronouncement by Maariv: "In any case," the spokesman said, "since Obama is not a Jew, publishing the note does not constitute an infringement on his right to privacy." Apparently, to the paper, Gentile prayer doesn't count.

If the Maariv statement about pre-approval of publication of the note is true, it would mean that the Obama campaign had managed the event brilliantly, if deceptively, getting the double benefit of appearing to be victimized by the invasive Israeli press and prayer-thieving Jew while at the same time leaking out his humble Christian plea to the Lord.

Already by the weekend, a (relatively) slick video appeared on YouTube that blended Obama's Western Wall prayer with various church scenes, crosses aplenty, a dove of peace, and a soundtrack based on Amazing Grace. The video closes with a "vote" button and an invitation to visit the official campaign website:



Revelation of this latest Obama collaboration with the media might detract a bit from the perceived sincerity of the prayer and strike some as an especially cynical use of the Kotel and an obstensibly private prayer to the Deity as a campaign prop. Most politicians suffice with getting a photo-op. Obama may be the first to take a prayer-leak on the Wall.

beer bacon
07-29-2008, 12:36 PM
Turns out the people that leaked the prayer are trying to push blame onto someone else!

Chiefnj2
07-29-2008, 12:41 PM
It's taken the newspaper a week to think up this excuse?

markk
07-29-2008, 12:42 PM
I almost predicted it was intentionally leaked when it was first reported.

This would be a good strategy, so long as you didn't let the word get out that it was intentionally leaked.

Someone took his prayer out of the wall = him being victimized, people invading his privacy... so, to generate sympathy.

It also could be a veiled attempt to get the text of his prayer out into the news media in order to boost his religious credentials in light of his kook nutbag church getting a lot of negative publicity. to protray that text as 'obama in an unguarded moment', trying to generate authenticity, when it was really all just astroturfed.

This sounds very Clintonesque for lack of a better term. We know that where the Clintons were involved there was no such thing as a coincidence. I do not believe this was an accident either.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually written by handlers...

***SPRAYER
07-29-2008, 12:43 PM
I kinda figured.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 12:44 PM
But the fact he probably pissed of a gazillion jewish voters wont be a factor

Donger
07-29-2008, 12:48 PM
Change YOU can believe in.

StcChief
07-29-2008, 12:55 PM
Change YOU can believe in.

ROFL never have, never will.

Chiefnj2
07-29-2008, 12:58 PM
The excuse doens't make sense. The biggest paper in the country said they obtained the note, but didn't print it out of privacy concerns. If the letter was given to papers ahead of time with permission, then the biggest paper in the country would have (a) printed it, (b) said they didn't want to print it because they didn't think it newsworthy, not because of privacy concerns.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 01:04 PM
The excuse doens't make sense. The biggest paper in the country said they obtained the note, but didn't print it out of privacy concerns. If the letter was given to papers ahead of time with permission, then the biggest paper in the country would have (a) printed it, (b) said they didn't want to print it because they didn't think it newsworthy, not because of privacy concerns.
Exactly what I was thinking. This sounds like more hot air from the anti-Obama crowd.

banyon
07-29-2008, 01:05 PM
It's a rumor and it's about Obama...time to believe it wholeheartedly and spread it on the internet as fast as possible, preferably through chain e-mails.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 01:08 PM
Chain Email? Here, links are your friend: http://web.israelinsider.com/Article...tics/13021.htm

Chief Henry
07-29-2008, 01:12 PM
"My babies got me locked up in change"

Iowanian
07-29-2008, 01:13 PM
I knew this was a ploy.

I knew it was part of the Hope A Dope policy when I saw him leaning backwards into the wall, feigning exhaustion as George Formanbergstein pounded away in futile wastes of energy.

Donger
07-29-2008, 01:13 PM
It's a rumor and it's about Obama...time to believe it wholeheartedly and spread it on the internet as fast as possible, preferably through chain e-mails.

I presume you felt the same when such rumors flew around about Bush?

Taco John
07-29-2008, 01:15 PM
Why does anybody care either way?

markk
07-29-2008, 01:15 PM
The excuse doens't make sense. The biggest paper in the country said they obtained the note, but didn't print it out of privacy concerns. If the letter was given to papers ahead of time with permission, then the biggest paper in the country would have (a) printed it, (b) said they didn't want to print it because they didn't think it newsworthy, not because of privacy concerns.

If I were doing it, I would have leaked it to this one person who supposedly took it out of the wall himself. You dont have to fax it to the Jerusalem Post. It was going to hit the media no matter what if it were leaked.

It sounds like this guy might have been going to play along like he decided to steal it, but he got way more publicity than he wanted or far more negative publicity than he wanted.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 01:17 PM
Why does anybody care either way?

Its a character thing. The Obamamaniacs dont care.

markk
07-29-2008, 01:20 PM
Its a character thing. The Obamamaniacs dont care.

it speaks to character and authenticity. his entire platform is that he's somehow not like the other politicians. this kind of astroturfing would belie that.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2008, 01:38 PM
So what's new? I've read that many of the leaks we get from any administration are pre-approved. These are the political classes folks. It oughta tell y'all this is ANOTHER reason for small govt. Becuase of the general type of people that seek public office.

Taco John
07-29-2008, 01:39 PM
Eh. I don't get it.

I don't care.

I'm not voting for the guy. I'm just trying to figure out the fascination that both the left and the right seem to have with the guy.

I'm not interested in learning why I should vote against him. I already have good reasons to do that.

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:03 PM
I don't think it takes a scholar to figure that anything Obama puts in that wall would be confiscated and scurried to the nearest news outlet.

penchief
07-29-2008, 02:06 PM
I presume you felt the same when such rumors flew around about Bush?

What rumors? What chain emails?

Just asking.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 02:11 PM
If I were doing it, I would have leaked it to this one person who supposedly took it out of the wall himself. You dont have to fax it to the Jerusalem Post. It was going to hit the media no matter what if it were leaked.
That doesn't square with this:

A Ma'ariv spokesman was quoted in the Jerusalem Post as saying that "Barack Obama's note was approved for publication in the international media even before he put in the Kotel, a short time after he wrote it at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem."]

or this:

[Update as to Maariv's statement as published in Haaretz on July 28]: "Obama's note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem."]

Both of those make it sound as if the note was presupplied to the media before he stuck it in the wall, which again doesn't square with the fact that the most popular newspaper in the land claimed to have gotten it from other sources and didn't want to publish it out of respect for his privacy, which suggests that Obama didn't presubmit the note to the media or authorize its publication. More likely, finding itself under heavy fire for publishing a private prayer and violating a sacred site, the newspaper spun its wheels and tried to pass the buck and say, "We didn't do it!" (as many newspapers are wont to do).

chasedude
07-29-2008, 02:13 PM
When will politicians and the media realize voters are more interested in the actual issues like the economy and foreign policy rather than this crap? I despise election time and wish for a quick death.

Donger
07-29-2008, 02:15 PM
What rumors? What chain emails?

Just asking.

Cocaine use.

Going AWOL.

Knocking up an underage girl and making her get an abortion.

And so on.

***SPRAYER
07-29-2008, 02:17 PM
I despise election time and wish for a quick death.

I don't know about death, maybe just a mild hangover.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:19 PM
Cocaine use.

Going AWOL.

Knocking up an underage girl and making her get an abortion.

And so on.


Sorry thought you were changing to discussions on the Broncos.

memyselfI
07-29-2008, 02:27 PM
Rush Limbaugh nailed this yesterday. ROFL

jAZ
07-29-2008, 02:41 PM
I presume you felt the same when such rumors flew around about Bush?

How did you feel about those rumors?

Pitt Gorilla
07-29-2008, 02:50 PM
Cocaine use.

Going AWOL.

Knocking up an underage girl and making her get an abortion.

And so on.I think there was also a rumor about his wife manslaughtering a guy.

memyselfI
07-29-2008, 02:54 PM
Back on topic. Here is another article. NObama is going to look VERY bad with this coming on the heels of the troop snub.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127001

Filched or released for publication?
In a statement issued following the public outcry over the leak, Maariv said that "Barack Obama's note was approved for publication in the international media even before he put it in the Kotel, a short time after he wrote it at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem." A third newspaper, Haaretz, quoted Maariv as saying that "Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem."

Based on these statements by Maariv, Israel Insider concluded that the Obama campaign "managed the event brilliantly, if deceptively, getting the double benefit of appearing to be victimized by the invasive Israeli press and prayer-thieving Jew while at the same time leaking out his humble Christian plea to the Lord." The report noted that by the week's end, "a (relatively) slick video appeared on [public video website] YouTube that blended Obama's Western Wall prayer with various church scenes, crosses aplenty, a dove of peace, and a soundtrack based on Amazing Grace. The video closes with a "vote" button and an invitation to visit the official campaign website."

penchief
07-29-2008, 02:55 PM
The constant barrage of misinformation surrounding the personal attacks on Obama kind of reminds me of the constant barrage of misinformation that supposedly proved that progress was being made in Iraq following the invasion.

One by one, the false claims are debunked by the facts and fall by the wayside. Only to be replaced by new false claims. But that never changes the opinions of those who eagerly await the next attempt to justify the unjustifiable while ignoring all the previous attempts to decieve.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:57 PM
The constant barrage of misinformation surrounding the personal attacks on Obama kind of reminds me of the constant barrage of misinformation that supposedly proved that progress was being made in Iraq following the invasion.

One by one, the false claims are debunked by the facts and fall by the wayside. Only to be replaced by new false claims. But that never changes the opinions of those who eagerly await the next attempt to justify the unjustifiable all the while ignoring the previous attempts to decieve.

Nothing of the kind here. He clearly leaked his prayer. He said it was a mystery to him how it got out.

Re: the surge failed....that bit of foolishness has its own thread.

penchief
07-29-2008, 03:00 PM
Nothing of the kind here. He clearly leaked his prayer. He said it was a mystery to him how it got out.

Re: the surge failed....that bit of foolishness has its own thread.

I don't think he's admitted to it yet.

I wasn't referring to the surge. I was referring to the first couple years of failure.

Baby Lee
07-29-2008, 03:00 PM
I'm just trying to figure out the fascination that both the left and the right seem to have with the guy.
Pssstt . . . he's running for president!!!

markk
07-29-2008, 03:02 PM
Nothing of the kind here. He clearly leaked his prayer. He said it was a mystery to him how it got out.

Re: the surge failed....that bit of foolishness has its own thread.

Prediction: it will get blamed on a staffer in the coming days, now that someone discovered the inconsistency.

maybe they will have to walk the plank, maybe they just won't say who it was. But I think they'll just say that some staff person leaked it without permission.

memyselfI
07-29-2008, 03:05 PM
KC Star blog:

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/1753


Israeli newspapers: Obama approved Western Wall note for publication

By Ross Balano, Midwest Voices Columnist 2008

If you felt that there was something fishy about that prayer Barack Obama left in the Western Wall while in Jerusalem being stolen and printed in the newspaper last week as I did, you might have been right.

Ma’ariv, the newspaper that printed the prayer, says that the prayer was approved for publication prior to Obama placing it in the wall.

Ma’ariv issued a statement: “Barack Obama's note was approved for publication in the international media even before he put in the Kotel, a short time after he wrote it at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem."

This statement is backed up by a statement from the most popular newspaper in Israel, Yediot Aharonot which says that they too had a copy of the note but decided not to print it.

If this is all true, and don’t bet against it, it is yet another example of just how disingenuous Obama really is. I believe it’s only a matter of time before the American people begin to see him through the un-tinted glasses of reality and reject him.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:06 PM
Back on topic. Here is another article. NObama is going to look VERY bad with this coming on the heels of the troop snub.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127001
A) That article is from the same source and says the same thing as the OP. B) The "troop snub" was already debunked in Snopes as a false rumor.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:07 PM
KC Star blog:

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/1753
Again, relies on the same source, says nothing new.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 03:10 PM
Dont you just hate it when a source is good enough that may other media outlets feel confident its correct.

memyselfI
07-29-2008, 03:15 PM
Again, relies on the same source, says nothing new.

Ah, but the story is now out there and it's up to other media outlets to pick it up and RUN...

that is what will kill NObama. He has to deny it and that comes on the heels of the troop snub episode which was handled so very badly.

NON-Obots are only going to give NObama the BOTD for a short time. Yes, Obots will continued to be lied to, betrayed, and deceived and keep asking for more. But everyone else is not willing to give HIM that sort of pass.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:30 PM
Dont you just hate it when a source is good enough that may other media outlets feel confident its correct.
Not really. As long as there is a fall guy, most major media are more than willing to print dubious information if they think it will sell headlines. As long as they aren't the first one to publish it, they can always point at the originator when the story is debunked and say, "Blame him." Happens all the time.

memyselfI
07-29-2008, 03:32 PM
Article in Israel's largest daily newspaper:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1006186.html

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:36 PM
Ah, but the story is now out there and it's up to other media outlets to pick it up and RUN...

that is what will kill NObama. He has to deny it and that comes on the heels of the troop snub episode which was handled so very badly.

NON-Obots are only going to give NObama the BOTD for a short time. Yes, Obots will continued to be lied to, betrayed, and deceived and keep asking for more. But everyone else is not willing to give HIM that sort of pass.
So you're advocating that people should continue to be led to believe things that are proven false as long as it hurts your opponent? Given that the largest newspaper in Israel claimed to have declined to run the story out of respect for Obama's privacy (something they would not have done had the note actually been delivered by the Obama camp or with their authorization), and given that the ONLY one of the newspapers that received the note that is claiming that it was actually delivered by the Obama camp or with their authorization, is the one that happens to be in the position of having to defend itself for charges of unethical journalism, it is likely that the truth of this story will eventually come to light, and Ma'ariv will either retract its claims or face the possibility of taking a dive in its ratings (and possibly criminal charges, according the Ha'aretz article you posted). But the troop snub story is ALREADY disproven, yet you're still advocating that it should be used against him. That says nothing good for you.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:41 PM
Article in Israel's largest daily newspaper:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1006186.html
Again, this article does nothing for your case. Actually, it tends to speak against it. Only as an afterthought at the end of the article does it report Ma'ariv's response to the possible criminal charges pending against them, and is careful not to claim that Ma'ariv's response was true.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 03:45 PM
Israel media hates Obama.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:46 PM
So, some questions for those of you who believe Ma'ariv:

If Obama's camp delivered or authorized the note to several media outlets, why did the largest of those media outlets refuse to print it "out of respect for Obama's privacy?"

Why have none of the other media sources that received the note attempted to claim that it was delivered or authorized by Obama or his campaign?

Why is the newspaper that is under a criminal investigation for publishing the note (therefor, with a strong motive to pass the buck) the ONLY one that is claiming Obama authorized it?

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 03:47 PM
Do you know?

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:48 PM
Do you know?
No, but common sense is that Obama did not authorize it, but that Ma'ariv is making it up to get their asses out of hot water.

patteeu
07-29-2008, 03:51 PM
I almost predicted it was intentionally leaked when it was first reported.

This would be a good strategy, so long as you didn't let the word get out that it was intentionally leaked.

Someone took his prayer out of the wall = him being victimized, people invading his privacy... so, to generate sympathy.

It also could be a veiled attempt to get the text of his prayer out into the news media in order to boost his religious credentials in light of his kook nutbag church getting a lot of negative publicity. to protray that text as 'obama in an unguarded moment', trying to generate authenticity, when it was really all just astroturfed.

This sounds very Clintonesque for lack of a better term. We know that where the Clintons were involved there was no such thing as a coincidence. I do not believe this was an accident either.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually written by handlers...

Yeah, it seemed obvious as soon as the prayer was reported. If it wasn't the will of the Obama campaign to have this prayer go public, I'll eat my keyboard.

patteeu
07-29-2008, 03:55 PM
A) That article is from the same source and says the same thing as the OP. B) The "troop snub" was already debunked in Snopes as a false rumor.

You're thinking of the wrong troop snub. Snopes didn't debunk the fact that Obama decided not to visit wounded troops during his Germany visit.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:55 PM
Yeah, it seemed obvious as soon as the prayer was reported. If it wasn't the will of the Obama campaign to have this prayer go public, I'll eat my keyboard.
I don't think it was his will that it go public. I think it was his will that the gesture of placing a prayer in the Western Wall was meant to be a photo op, though. The actual text of the prayer was pretty generic. I think if he meant for the note to go public, he probably would have spent more thought on it to make it seem more politically relevant. It is well known that removing a note from the Western Wall at any time other the two prescribed times per year is a criminal offense, and I doubt he expected or "authorized" anyone to criminally defile the wall just to score a few relatively insignificant political points with the religious right.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 03:57 PM
You're thinking of the wrong troop snub. Snopes didn't debunk the fact that Obama decided not to visit wounded troops during his Germany visit.
You're right, nor did they debunk the fact that the Pentagon warned him of security concerns before he made the decision not to go to Germany.

beer bacon
07-29-2008, 04:13 PM
Ma'ariv is now saying that the "the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing."

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/07/29/obama-vindicated.aspx

Obama Vindicated?

Yesterday, I posted an item about an accusation from Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv that the Obama campaign had leaked a copy of his Western Wall note to the foreign press (rather than Ma'ariv having bought it from some yeshiva kid who stole it out of the wall). After some additional reporting last night, I noted that the story sounded a bit fishy--not only has Ma'ariv not offered any tangible evidence to supprot this claim, but they also have only made the claim via a spokesman to various Israeli papers rather than printing the accusation in their own paper.

I just got off the phone with a Ma'ariv spokesman who says that the accusation is "completely false," and that he has no idea who these papers were quoting from Ma'ariv. "No official spokesman for Ma'ariv told this to any of the papers." I've got some calls in to these papers to find out where they got the quote. (I'll update here when I hear back.) He told me definitively that "the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing."

beer bacon
07-29-2008, 04:13 PM
Could we change the thread title to reflect reality?

patteeu
07-29-2008, 04:16 PM
I don't think it was his will that it go public. I think it was his will that the gesture of placing a prayer in the Western Wall was meant to be a photo op, though. The actual text of the prayer was pretty generic. I think if he meant for the note to go public, he probably would have spent more thought on it to make it seem more politically relevant. It is well known that removing a note from the Western Wall at any time other the two prescribed times per year is a criminal offense, and I doubt he expected or "authorized" anyone to criminally defile the wall just to score a few relatively insignificant political points with the religious right.

The purpose of the prayer going public is to work against the rumors that he is muslim (or the likelihood, IMO, that he is a Godless politician who joined a church out of political expediency). The type of generic prayer his writers wrote for him (or possibly, that he wrote for himself) works better for that purpose than an obviously politicized prayer would have. This isn't an appeal aimed narrowly at the religious right, it's aimed at everyone who doubts Obama's religious sincerity. You'll be pleased to know that it didn't work on me though.

markk
07-29-2008, 04:16 PM
i wonder if extensive video exists of what happened, if you have ever been there you'd see there are thousands of pieces of paper in the wall rolled up or just shoved in, some inside of others. it would be hard with any certainty to be sure you had the right one. i expect the area was cleared for him and quite a bit of media and security were hoarded around. i dont know how some peasant just walking by could be expected to have found it and found it first.

the whole thing is pretty implausible even without the guy changing his story.

patteeu
07-29-2008, 04:18 PM
You're right, nor did they debunk the fact that the Pentagon warned him of security concerns before he made the decision not to go to Germany.

He didn't make a decision not to go to Germany. Not even Obama blames security concerns on his decision not to visit wounded troops there.

patteeu
07-29-2008, 04:19 PM
Could we change the thread title to reflect reality?

I don't see any reason to doubt the thread title's accuracy even if the OP story turns out to be false.

markk
07-29-2008, 04:20 PM
The purpose of the prayer going public is to work against the rumors that he is muslim (or the likelihood, IMO, that he is a Godless politician who joined a church out of political expediency). The type of generic prayer his writers wrote for him (or possibly, that he wrote for himself) works better for that purpose than an obviously politicized prayer would have. This isn't an appeal aimed narrowly at the religious right, it's aimed at everyone who doubts Obama's religious sincerity. You'll be pleased to know that it didn't work on me though.

I think you hit the nail on the head, I dont think his religion is seen as authentic by many people, because he went to this insane church for decades and was married by the preacher who he considered himself close with, but he claimed he didn't know they were kook wingnut liberation theology. Either he never actually showed up or he's being untruthful, but either way people aren't buying it.

The whole visit to the western wall including the note was meant to try to rehab his image in that department.

Plus it kind of feeds into this idea that people around the world were fainting upon seeing him like he's the Beatles, that some peasants in Jerusalem might have been in a melee to claim his discarded scrap of paper.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 04:24 PM
Ma'ariv is now saying that the "the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing."

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/07/29/obama-vindicated.aspx

Obama Vindicated?

Yesterday, I posted an item about an accusation from Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv that the Obama campaign had leaked a copy of his Western Wall note to the foreign press (rather than Ma'ariv having bought it from some yeshiva kid who stole it out of the wall). After some additional reporting last night, I noted that the story sounded a bit fishy--not only has Ma'ariv not offered any tangible evidence to supprot this claim, but they also have only made the claim via a spokesman to various Israeli papers rather than printing the accusation in their own paper.

I just got off the phone with a Ma'ariv spokesman who says that the accusation is "completely false," and that he has no idea who these papers were quoting from Ma'ariv. "No official spokesman for Ma'ariv told this to any of the papers." I've got some calls in to these papers to find out where they got the quote. (I'll update here when I hear back.) He told me definitively that "the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing."
Well, it didn't take long for my prediction to come true!

Ma'ariv will either retract its claims or face the possibility of taking a dive in its ratings

beer bacon
07-29-2008, 04:25 PM
I don't see any reason to doubt the thread title's accuracy even if the OP story turns out to be false.

You are so GOP. Never let the facts get in the way of a good smear.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 04:26 PM
To late running to close the door, the cows are already out.

beer bacon
07-29-2008, 04:28 PM
To late running to close the door, the cows are already out.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4877543&postcount=63

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 04:31 PM
I just got off the phone? lol Great.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 04:32 PM
The purpose of the prayer going public is to work against the rumors that he is muslim
I don't think he's worried too much about the rumors that he is Muslim. Only a few fringe elements actually believe that.

(or the likelihood, IMO, that he is a Godless politician who joined a church out of political expediency).
This is of much greater concern to him, I believe. And the photo op that I surmised the placement of the note in the wall to be would be more than sufficient as a gesture in this regard. Still, it is not the sort of significant political hurdle to him that would likely move him to endorsing the criminal defilement of a holy site.

You'll be pleased to know that it didn't work on me though.
Me neither, I've never bought into his religious sincerity. I believe he is nominally Christian, but non-practicing in reality. I think his religious posturing is mostly for political brownie points. But being agnostic like yourself, I don't find his religious sincerity to be particularly important, as long as the beliefs he is sincere about are not radically opposed to American ideals, which I don't believe they are.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 04:41 PM
i wonder if extensive video exists of what happened, if you have ever been there you'd see there are thousands of pieces of paper in the wall rolled up or just shoved in, some inside of others. it would be hard with any certainty to be sure you had the right one. i expect the area was cleared for him and quite a bit of media and security were hoarded around. i dont know how some peasant just walking by could be expected to have found it and found it first.

the whole thing is pretty implausible even without the guy changing his story.
Not really. As I surmised earlier, this was probably a photo op, so the area was probably cleared for him with media on hand. As such, the fact that he was going to do it was probably known by several parties, any one of whom could have been carefully watching to see exactly where it was placed. There is no indication from the story that the student who found it just walked up and randomly found it. Although there aren't many people who still believe he is Muslim, the number of people who may still believe that is probably disproportionately high in Israel than in other nations, where they may well worry that if he's elected, he'll give them over to their enemies. So if the event was publicized beforehand, it is entirely conceivable that a Jewish student might want to know exactly where he placed his note in order to find out if it had Christian or Muslim sentiments. There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to knew exactly which note was his, and watch carefully to find out, that don't rely on Obama having worked it out ahead of time with that person.

memyselfI
07-29-2008, 04:43 PM
I think you hit the nail on the head, I dont think his religion is seen as authentic by many people, because he went to this insane church for decades and was married by the preacher who he considered himself close with, but he claimed he didn't know they were kook wingnut liberation theology. Either he never actually showed up or he's being untruthful, but either way people aren't buying it.

The whole visit to the western wall including the note was meant to try to rehab his image in that department.

Plus it kind of feeds into this idea that people around the world were fainting upon seeing him like he's the Beatles, that some peasants in Jerusalem might have been in a melee to claim his discarded scrap of paper.


The JP is not a small blog or unknown newspaper. One would assume they'd get this story right. Plus, a great number of people were offended when NObama's campaign littered the wall area with his campaign posters. They felt he disparaged a sacred site. Also, it was not widely reported in US media (but reported widely elsewhere) that HE was heckled during that visit to the WW.

That is the trouble with orchestrating reality like NObama's campaign has done and continues to do. No one is really sure what is real and what isn't...

and that is how they've designed it. :doh!:

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 04:47 PM
The JP is not a small blog or unknown newspaper. One would assume they'd get this story right.
Every newspaper gets stories wrong. Remember when the NYT had its scandal a few years back? The NYT is much, much bigger than the JP.

Plus, a great number of people were offended when NObama's campaign littered the wall area with his campaign posters. They felt he disparaged a sacred site.
Link? I found an article from WND (a right-wing shill if ever there was one) that mentions his posters were placed on the police barricade near the entrance to the wall, but not on the wall itself, and the articles doesn't say a word about mass outrage or beliefs that it disparaged a sacred site. In fact, it was arranged by the Israeli police and Israeli rabbis.

Also, it was not widely reported in US media (but reported widely elsewhere) that HE was heckled during that visit to the WW.
Link? Nevermind, I found it myself. He was heckled by ONE person. Not exactly a round condemnation.

That is the trouble with orchestrating reality like NObama's campaign has done and continues to do. No one is really sure what is real and what isn't...
Especially when there are people working the sidelines, like yourself, advocating that false rumors should still be used against people, even when they're known to be false.

penchief
07-29-2008, 04:48 PM
To late running to close the door, the cows are already out.

And therein lies the rub. That is the republican right's tact. Make the claim and impugn the integrity regardless of its accuracy or the truth. Because once it is done it's too late to "close the barn door." A number of people will continue believing it even after it is disproved. Do it enough times and the cumulative effect will have an overall negative impact regardless of how untrue the claims are or how dishonest the tactic.

And republicans wonder why people think the republican party is dishonest and sleazy. They have a track record and a well established pattern of exactly this kind of crap. And we've seen it in its full glory when considering the McCain campaign's blatant disregard for the truth when it comes to their personal attacks on Obama.

HolmeZz
07-29-2008, 04:50 PM
The JP is not a small blog or unknown newspaper. One would assume they'd get this story right. Plus, a great number of people were offended when NObama's campaign littered the wall area with his campaign posters. They felt he disparaged a sacred site. Also, it was not widely reported in US media (but reported widely elsewhere) that HE was heckled during that visit to the WW.

That is the trouble with orchestrating reality like NObama's campaign has done and continues to do. No one is really sure what is real and what isn't...

and that is how they've designed it.

So I take it you weren't laid to waste in a pile of earthquake rubble?

I guess there's always next year.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 04:52 PM
Not one credible source has come out saying a word about this being fabricated. Obama's team screwed the pooch on this.

beer bacon
07-29-2008, 04:57 PM
Not one credible source has come out saying a word about this being fabricated. Obama's team screwed the pooch on this.

No credible source except Ma'ariv itself.

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_p...indicated.aspx

Obama Vindicated?

Yesterday, I posted an item about an accusation from Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv that the Obama campaign had leaked a copy of his Western Wall note to the foreign press (rather than Ma'ariv having bought it from some yeshiva kid who stole it out of the wall). After some additional reporting last night, I noted that the story sounded a bit fishy--not only has Ma'ariv not offered any tangible evidence to supprot this claim, but they also have only made the claim via a spokesman to various Israeli papers rather than printing the accusation in their own paper.

I just got off the phone with a Ma'ariv spokesman who says that the accusation is "completely false," and that he has no idea who these papers were quoting from Ma'ariv. "No official spokesman for Ma'ariv told this to any of the papers." I've got some calls in to these papers to find out where they got the quote. (I'll update here when I hear back.) He told me definitively that "the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing."

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 04:58 PM
Not one credible source has come out saying a word about this being true. The anti-Obama team screwed the pooch on this.
FYP

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Not one word....just some Obamite saying they talked to some dude....god thats laughable

beer bacon
07-29-2008, 05:00 PM
Not one word....just some Obamite saying they talked to some dude....god thats laughable

Wait, why was the smear credible in the first place?

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 05:01 PM
Not one word....just some Obamite saying they talked to some dude....god thats laughable
And an unidentified "spokesman" for the only newspaper facing criminal charges being the only one of those [that reportedly received the note] claiming that the Obama camp authorized it is not laughable? God, you're laughable!

markk
07-29-2008, 05:02 PM
Plus, a great number of people were offended when NObama's campaign littered the wall area with his campaign posters. They felt he disparaged a sacred site.

I thought the same. I couldn't believe they let him put up those campaign posters in Hebrew at a holy site like that. And by the way, I thought this wasn't a campaign trip?

Can you imagine someone slapping a billboard on the dome of the rock? Something would... well, I won't say, but something bad would happen as a result.

I am not Jewish, but I can definitely see this being seen as profane by some.

patteeu
07-29-2008, 05:03 PM
No credible source except Ma'ariv itself.

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_p...indicated.aspx

Obama Vindicated?

Yesterday, I posted an item about an accusation from Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv that the Obama campaign had leaked a copy of his Western Wall note to the foreign press (rather than Ma'ariv having bought it from some yeshiva kid who stole it out of the wall). After some additional reporting last night, I noted that the story sounded a bit fishy--not only has Ma'ariv not offered any tangible evidence to supprot this claim, but they also have only made the claim via a spokesman to various Israeli papers rather than printing the accusation in their own paper.

I just got off the phone with a Ma'ariv spokesman who says that the accusation is "completely false," and that he has no idea who these papers were quoting from Ma'ariv. "No official spokesman for Ma'ariv told this to any of the papers." I've got some calls in to these papers to find out where they got the quote. (I'll update here when I hear back.) He told me definitively that "the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing."

Just fyi, but that link doesn't go to Ma'ariv itself.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 05:03 PM
Can you imagine someone slapping a billboard on the dome of the rock?
False dichotomy. Nobody put any posters on the wall.

patteeu
07-29-2008, 05:10 PM
False dichotomy. Nobody put any posters on the wall.

You really need to brush up on your fallacies.

Nightwish
07-29-2008, 05:12 PM
You really need to brush up on your fallacies.
Fair enough. Given your penchant for using them, I'll defer to your expertise on fallacies. Nevertheless, the point still stands, it's a false comparison.

Ultra Peanut
07-29-2008, 06:58 PM
I almost predicted it was intentionally leaked when it was first reported.
I kinda figured.
Rush Limbaugh nailed this yesterday. ROFL
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Ma'ariv is now saying that the "the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing."Oh, what do they know? They're just a key component of this retarded rumor.

***SPRAYER
07-30-2008, 09:33 AM
From todays WSJ:

Haaretz reports that "Jerusalem lawyer Shahar Alon asked Attorney General Menachem Mazuz yesterday to order a police investigation into the removal and publication of Obama's note":

"By making the note public," Alon wrote to Mazuz, "Maariv violated the law protecting holy sites, several clauses in the penal code and also infringed upon the basic rights of a person's honor and freedom."
Alon also initiated a boycott of the newspaper. . . .

Maariv's response: "Obama's note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem. Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."

Ultra Peanut
07-30-2008, 09:34 AM
"Today's WSJ" has already been covered and debunked. Do try to keep up, Gentle Ben.

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***SPRAYER
07-30-2008, 09:39 AM
"Today's WSJ" has already been covered and debunked. Do try to keep up, Gentle Ben.

I know, everything negative about B.O. get's "debunked".

:hmmm:

Ultra Peanut
07-30-2008, 09:44 AM
I know, everything negative about B.O. get's "debunked".

:hmmm:If only you and your pals didn't spread so much horseshit in a vain effort to get some of it on his shoes, eh?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9sZG7Y7CdTc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9sZG7Y7CdTc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

***SPRAYER
07-30-2008, 09:49 AM
If only you and your pals didn't spread so much horseshit in a vain effort to get some of it on his shoes, eh?




It's either debunked or taken out of context.

:)

Ultra Peanut
07-30-2008, 09:54 AM
Random Conservative Blog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5JTf7jZs&feature=related) is reporting that SHTSPRAYER fondles little boys! His chances at the presidency are doomed!

***SPRAYER
07-30-2008, 09:59 AM
Random Conservative Blog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5JTf7jZs&feature=related) is reporting that SHTSPRAYER fondles little boys! His chances at the presidency are doomed!

Those rumors were initially taken out of context, and have since been debunked.

PBJ

penchief
07-30-2008, 11:18 AM
I know, everything negative about B.O. get's "debunked".

:hmmm:

I wonder why. It couldn't be because a bunch of haters are on a perpetual witch hunt, could it?

HonestChieffan
07-30-2008, 11:28 AM
Teflon don morphed into Teflon Barry