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Chiefnj2
07-29-2008, 01:27 PM
WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate John McCain's signal that he may be open to a higher payroll tax for Social Security, despite previous vows not to raise taxes of any kind, is drawing sharp rebukes from conservatives.

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McCain's shift has come in stages, catching some Republicans by surprise. Speaking with reporters on his campaign bus on July 9, he cited a need to shore up Social Security. "I cannot tell you what I would do, except to put everything on the table," he said.

He went a step farther Sunday on ABC's "This Week," in response to a question about payroll tax increases.

"There is nothing that's off the table. I have my positions, and I'll articulate them. But nothing's off the table," McCain said. "I don't want tax increases. But that doesn't mean that anything is off the table."

That comment drew a strong response this week from the Club for Growth, a Washington anti-tax group. McCain's comments, the group said in a letter to the Arizona senator, are "shocking because you have been adamant in your opposition to raising taxes under any circumstances."

Indeed, McCain frequently has promised not to raise taxes.

At a July 7 town-hall meeting in Denver, he said voters faced a stark choice between him and Democrat Barack Obama.

"Sen. Obama will raise your taxes," McCain said. "I won't."

In a March 16 interview with Fox News' Sean Hannity, McCain said he would cut taxes where possible, and not raise them.

"Do you mean none?" Hannity asked.

"None," McCain replied.

Both candidates have said Social Security's funding formula needs to be changed to ensure the program's long-term viability. Obama has called for imposing a new payroll tax on incomes above $250,000. Currently, only incomes up to $102,000 are subject to the 12.4 percent payroll tax, which employers and employees split evenly.

When Obama announced his plan June 13, McCain's top economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, told reporters that as president McCain would not consider a payroll tax increase "under any imagineable circumstance."

McCain has made no specific proposals for Social Security, refusing to rule in or out anything to strengthen the benefit program for retirees and the disabled. Both candidates have said that, if elected, they would try to work out details with Republican and Democratic lawmakers.

Asked for an explanation of McCain's latest comments, campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds said the Arizona senator "has a clear and demonstrated record of opposing tax increases. John McCain is going to cut taxes" and improve government discipline, he said.

Promises never to raise taxes have bedeviled past Republican officeholders. Before being elected president in 1988, George H.W. Bush said, "Read my lips, no new taxes." But facing severe budget problems, he reneged on the promise. Some conservative groups never forgave him.

HC_Chief
07-29-2008, 01:28 PM
Raising taxes bad. Raising spending, worse.

Cut both (but cut spending more than cutting taxes).

***SPRAYER
07-29-2008, 01:31 PM
Whoops.

Anyway, here's a good article about Obama's "stealth socialism":

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=302137342405551

markk
07-29-2008, 01:32 PM
McCain is not much different than Bill Clinton once you sum everything up.

Obama is more like Howard dean.

Not much of a choice.

***SPRAYER
07-29-2008, 01:46 PM
Here's an excerpt from that Investors Business Daily link:

Throughout his career, Obama has worked closely with a network of stone-cold socialists and full-blown communists striving for "economic justice."

He's been traveling in an orbit of collectivism that runs from Nairobi to Honolulu, and on through Chicago to Washington.

Yet a recent AP poll found that only 6% of Americans would describe Obama as "liberal," let alone socialist.
Public opinion polls usually reflect media opinion, and the media by and large have portrayed Obama as a moderate "outsider" (the No. 1 term survey respondents associate him with) who will bring a "breath of fresh air" to Washington.

The few who have drilled down on his radical roots have tended to downplay or pooh-pooh them. Even skeptics have failed to connect the dots for fear of being called the dreaded "r" word.

But too much is at stake in this election to continue mincing words.

Both a historic banking crisis and 1970s-style stagflation loom over the economy. Democrats, who already control Congress, now threaten to filibuster-proof the Senate in what could be a watershed election for them at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

A perfect storm of statism is forming, and our economic freedoms are at serious risk.

Those who care less about looking politically correct than preserving the free-market individualism that's made this country great have to start calling things by their proper name to avert long-term disaster.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Only 6% of those polled would define B.O. as a liberal or a socialist? :eek:

Wow, people better wake the f up.

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:01 PM
This is shit I've been touching on for a couple weeks now.

McCain normally would have waltzed through this indiscretion, hoping people wouldn't have figured this out.

But when what you're telling Americans is $2.8 trillion dollars off on your campaign's actual plan, you have to do something.

ROYC75
07-29-2008, 02:02 PM
McCain Now Admits he WILL raise taxes after all.


WOW, nice way to stretch the truth....... Spin it it Dems, just spin it anyway you can.

His goal is not to raise, but cut taxes.But like any other politician that has ever ran for office, you only believe half of what you hear.

His remarks were , "There is nothing that's off the table. I have my positions, and I'll articulate them. But nothing's off the table," McCain said. "I don't want tax increases. But that doesn't mean that anything is off the table."

That's hardly a confirmation of " WILL " as you make it out to be.

Just a typical BS smear card that you are using ...........

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:05 PM
WOW, nice way to stretch the truth....... Spin it it Dems, just spin it anyway you can.

His goal is not to raise, but cut taxes.But like any other politician that has ever ran for office, you only believe half of what you hear.

His remarks were , "There is nothing that's off the table. I have my positions, and I'll articulate them. But nothing's off the table," McCain said. "I don't want tax increases. But that doesn't mean that anything is off the table."

That's hardly a confirmation of " WILL " as you make it out to be.

Just a typical BS smear card that you are using ...........
John McCain made a pledge: no new taxes.

All the while, well before this story, the McCain campaign has admitted to the Tax Policy Center that he would, in fact, raise taxes to pay for some of his programs.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:12 PM
WOW, nice way to stretch the truth....... Spin it it Dems, just spin it anyway you can.

His goal is not to raise, but cut taxes.But like any other politician that has ever ran for office, you only believe half of what you hear.

His remarks were , "There is nothing that's off the table. I have my positions, and I'll articulate them. But nothing's off the table," McCain said. "I don't want tax increases. But that doesn't mean that anything is off the table."

That's hardly a confirmation of " WILL " as you make it out to be.

Just a typical BS smear card that you are using ...........

You did it before I could. More spin by the Obamania crowd.

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:17 PM
You did it before I could. More spin by the Obamania crowd.
It's not spin. IT IS A FACT.

Before rescinding it this morning, McCain had taken a "no new taxes" pledge that he had repeated ad nauseum in town halls.

AT THE SAME TIME, his campaign has told tax experts that he plans to raise taxes to pay for some of his programs.

Get your shit straight.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:20 PM
It's not spin. IT IS A FACT.

Before rescinding it this morning, McCain had taken a "no new taxes" pledge that he had repeated ad nauseum in town halls.

AT THE SAME TIME, his campaign has told tax experts that he plans to raise taxes to pay for some of his programs.

Get your shit straight.

where did he say that

Fish
07-29-2008, 02:22 PM
WOW, nice way to stretch the truth....... Spin it it Dems, just spin it anyway you can.

His goal is not to raise, but cut taxes.But like any other politician that has ever ran for office, you only believe half of what you hear.

His remarks were , "There is nothing that's off the table. I have my positions, and I'll articulate them. But nothing's off the table," McCain said. "I don't want tax increases. But that doesn't mean that anything is off the table."

That's hardly a confirmation of " WILL " as you make it out to be.

Just a typical BS smear card that you are using ...........

Stretching the truth is one thing..... stretching to make up a $2.8 trillion dollar difference in your proposed plan is something different altogether. He might not have said the exact phrase "I will raise taxes after all", but anyone who looks into his budget plans would realize that the money has to come from somewhere.... i.e. taxes...

MaxFects
07-29-2008, 02:27 PM
McCain is not much different than Bill Clinton once you sum everything up.

Dude, really. C'mon...I mean... good lord

banyon
07-29-2008, 02:27 PM
McCain: Catch the Excitement!

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:28 PM
where did he say that
Where did McCain say that he would raise taxes?

He DIDN'T.

He WON'T.

Not to us, anyway.

Instead, he has his economic advisors tell the Tax Policy Center that's what he's going to do, where he knows laymen Americans won't read.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:30 PM
Ok, so he didnt say he would but the Obamaniacs are hearing voices?

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:31 PM
Ok, so he didnt say he would but the Obamaniacs are hearing voices?
His CAMPAIGN has said he would. His economic advisors has said he would.

McCain hasn't said it because when he speaks, cameras are rolling and he doesn't want this news to get out.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:33 PM
I got it.

Make shit up. Attribute to unknown sources.

Fish
07-29-2008, 02:34 PM
Ok, so he didnt say he would but the Obamaniacs are hearing voices?

No.... the Obamaniacs are actually researching what McCain has said, and comparing that with the information he has given to the Tax Policy Center. The vast differences of which have already been pointed out.

But I'm sure if you put your fingers in your ears and pray really hard, it will still somehow be good for McCain.

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:36 PM
so you compare what he said to things he didnt say and if they are different you post it?

mlyonsd
07-29-2008, 02:37 PM
Actually raising taxes for SS is about the only tax I'm for. I mean since the democrats don't want to address the problem with any creativity.

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:40 PM
I got it.

Make shit up. Attribute to unknown sources.
It's not unknown, dingus. It's facts.

I know the Tax Policy Center isn't as credentialed and fair as Hot Air, but it's a joint venture of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, two universally accreditted tax institutions with about 150 years of tax analysis between them.

I'd cite the story the New Republic did on the piece but it's probably too long (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=f32048af-6a69-4594-8a9f-e99d213578c1) for you to read.

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:40 PM
Here's a summary from a previous thread I started (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=187030):

* McCain wants to balance the budget by 2013.

* At the same time, McCain's health care plan would cost $3.6 trillion, but McCain's aides have said there will be a net cost of $0.

* It plans to pay for this by taxing workers' health benefits, which would raise enough money to pay for the health care plan.

* The McCain campaign has thus come under a buttload of fire for this, as this would RAISE TAXES for millions of middle-class Americans.

Taco John
07-29-2008, 02:41 PM
Actually raising taxes for SS is about the only tax I'm for. I mean since the democrats don't want to address the problem with any creativity.



Then what's the point of the Bush tax cuts? And when the hell did "raising taxes" become a "creative solution?"

A bunch of aimless souls out there being danced around like marionettes. Have you absolutely no guiding philosophy?

HonestChieffan
07-29-2008, 02:41 PM
Im just trying to establish that the statement McCain said.....

Is in fact false. McCain never did say any such thing.

markk
07-29-2008, 02:42 PM
Dude, really. C'mon...I mean... good lord

other than a couple of issues, why couldn't you call McCain a moderate Dem?

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:42 PM
Im just trying to establish that the statement McCain said.....

Is in fact false. McCain never did say any such thing.
So you're not going to hold him responsible for anything his campaign has said?

mlyonsd
07-29-2008, 02:51 PM
Then what's the point of the Bush tax cuts? And when the hell did "raising taxes" become a "creative solution?"

A bunch of aimless souls out there being danced around like marionettes. Have you absolutely no guiding philosophy?

I tend to look at a problem and figure out how to solve it. You on the other hand just bit#h and moan because you're so superior than the rest of us, so why doesn't everyone just listen to you.

Tell me how SS is going to become self sufficient. Without raising taxes. I consider investing a small part of it at least being creative. That got shot down, fine. Tell me what the better idea is and I'll gladly listen.

But let's make it clear, I'm only for raising payroll taxes to help SS, nothing else. And that tax should be across the board. Period. None of this elevated tax BS.

Direckshun
07-29-2008, 02:53 PM
So you're not going to hold him responsible for anything his campaign has said?
Run run, HCF.

Chief Faithful
07-29-2008, 02:54 PM
Actually raising taxes for SS is about the only tax I'm for. I mean since the democrats don't want to address the problem with any creativity.

The only problem is the SS tax is no different than any other income tax. Remember Al Gore was not elected so there is no "lock box".

During the Johnson administration in order to fund the "Great Society" Congress put SS revenues into the general funds to support the general budget. This is how they funded all those great social welfare programs and that is why there is a looming crisis because in the near future the annual cost of the program will exceed the annual revenues received. Then in the future when Congress reaches into the "lock box" they will see there is no money set aside from the 80 years of surplus.

The concept of privatization was to create a place were a portion of the money could go so Congress could not continue to spend every cent every year. But, the Dems couldn't support the idea of you and I having any say about how our money is used so they just scared the old and stupid into believing Bush was trying to starve them. :banghead: