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Alphaman
07-31-2008, 06:47 AM
Remember when Gramm made the "whiners" comment and McCain came out hard and said that John McCain speaks for John McCain.

Now his campaign says McCain might not speak for the McCain campaign.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25939338#25939338


This is scary as to what type of President he would be.

patteeu
07-31-2008, 09:34 AM
Who Speaks for McCain

Let's try to work this out by process of elimination. It's not black liberation theologian and racially resentful Rev. Jeremiah Wright. It's not corrupt and convicted Tony Rezko. It's not unrepentant domestic terrorist Bill Ayers or Bernardine Dohrn. It's not back-channel, double-talking Austan Goolsbee. It's not pro-palestinian, anti-Israeli globalist Samantha Power. It's not even Ludacris. In relative terms, how scary can it really be?

Alphaman
07-31-2008, 09:40 AM
Let's try to work this out by process of elimination. It's not black liberation theologian and racially resentful Rev. Jeremiah Wright. It's not corrupt and convicted Tony Rezko. It's not unrepentant domestic terrorist Bill Ayers or Bernardine Dohrn. It's not back-channel, double-talking Austan Goolsbee. It's not pro-palestinian, anti-Israeli globalist Samantha Power. It's not even Ludacris. In relative terms, how scary can it really be?


patteeu,

Are you part of McCain's strategy team? You are using the same tactics they are using: don't talk about our guy, let's cast fear because of the other guy.

Those relationships are problematic for Obama, no doubt, but they aren't part of his campaign. However, it is more problematic (at least for me) that McCain says only he speaks for him, but his campaign says he doesn't always speak for his OWN campaign. Who will be calling the shots if he is elected?

Ultra Peanut
07-31-2008, 09:45 AM
The difference in the way the campaigns are run is staggering. The Obama campaign is top-down, disciplined, and incredibly organized, while McCain's campaign is being taken in fifteen different directions at once by fifteen different people, none of whom seem to be the candidate himself.

Let's try to work this out by process of elimination. It's not black liberation theologian and racially resentful Rev. Jeremiah Wright. It's not corrupt and convicted Tony Rezko. It's not unrepentant domestic terrorist Bill Ayers or Bernardine Dohrn. It's not back-channel, double-talking Austan Goolsbee. It's not pro-palestinian, anti-Israeli globalist Samantha Power. It's not even Ludacris. In relative terms, how scary can it really be?You guys remember when everyone was saying, "Oooh, better vote for Hillary because she's been vetted! Just imagine what the Republicans will dig up about Obama!"

Yeah. This is what the Big Bad Republicans have: recycled attacks from the primaries.

banyon
07-31-2008, 09:46 AM
We have the issues, no need to stoop to the same baseless fearmongering as the other side.

Direckshun
07-31-2008, 09:48 AM
John McCain doesn't speak for himself on economics. His chief economic advisor has said as much, especially considering how far off McCain's words have been from the policies his advisors have fed economic experts.

Alphaman
07-31-2008, 09:57 AM
We have the issues, no need to stoop to the same baseless fearmongering as the other side.


Assuming that this was directed at me for starting this thread, I don't view it as fear mongering. I view it as asking a question as to how McCain will lead the country if elected. There's an article out about how McCain is at times very shakey on details, often times leaving them to his staff. I'm all for a leader delegating, but at some point his staff has to brief him and he needs to have the intelligence to synthesize the mountains of information he'll recieve. That ability is called into question when he defers economic questions to his economic advisor only to then say that economic advisor doesn't speak for him. Only HE speaks for him.

Yet then his campaign says that McCain doesn't necessarily speak for his OWN campaign. Will he speak for his OWN presidency or will his cabinent and Chief of Staff speak for him?

patteeu
07-31-2008, 10:27 AM
patteeu,

Are you part of McCain's strategy team? You are using the same tactics they are using: don't talk about our guy, let's cast fear because of the other guy.

Those relationships are problematic for Obama, no doubt, but they aren't part of his campaign. However, it is more problematic (at least for me) that McCain says only he speaks for him, but his campaign says he doesn't always speak for his OWN campaign. Who will be calling the shots if he is elected?

I think it's fair for you to hold McCain responsible for his own words regardless of what his campaign says. Of course, some allowance ought to be made for misstatements by both candidates because when you talk as much as they do, you're bound to say something you don't really mean from time to time. Prepared statements, of course, deserve more strict scrutiny than off the cuff statements.

So, for example, if Obama came out today and said he didn't really mean that inflating tires and getting tune ups could make up for all the energy that we forgo by declining to drill more domestically, I'd be willing to chalk up his earlier off-the-cuff remarks as mere misstatements.

patteeu
07-31-2008, 10:29 AM
You guys remember when everyone was saying, "Oooh, better vote for Hillary because she's been vetted! Just imagine what the Republicans will dig up about Obama!"

Yeah. This is what the Big Bad Republicans have: recycled attacks from the primaries.

I remember when Hillary supporters were saying that. I heard all I needed to hear to make a decision about Obama during the primaries.

Alphaman
07-31-2008, 10:34 AM
I think it's fair for you to hold McCain responsible for his own words regardless of what his campaign says. Of course, some allowance ought to be made for misstatements by both candidates because when you talk as much as they do, you're bound to say something you don't really mean from time to time. Prepared statements, of course, deserve more strict scrutiny than off the cuff statements.

So, for example, if Obama came out today and said he didn't really mean that inflating tires and getting tune ups could make up for all the energy that we forgo by declining to drill more domestically, I'd be willing to chalk up his earlier off-the-cuff remarks as mere misstatements.


I agree with you regarding misstatements, but he made a huge statement about speaking for himself. Now his campaign says he doesn't always speak for the campaign. That seems much bigger than a misstatement to me.

chiefforlife
07-31-2008, 10:38 AM
McCains own staff says he doesnt speak for his own campaign?

Is the McCain campaign bigger than McCain himself? Is McCain just a puppet?

What kind of candidate doesnt speak for his own campaign? I think this should be given much more scrutiny. If we shouldnt listen to McCain to find out what his positions are, who then?

Chiefnj2
07-31-2008, 11:37 AM
This has been happening for weeks. McCain says one thing in a speech, his handlers say something different after the speech and then McCain says something entirely different a few hours later.

--a few weeks ago on Afghanistan:

"By yesterday morning, McCain said he does want to send more U.S. troops to Afghanistan.

Almost immediately after giving his speech — literally just minutes after the event — McCain said he didn’t exactly mean what he’d said in his prepared remarks, and argued that the additional troops could come from NATO, not U.S. forces.

And then a few hours later, McCain refined his policy a little more, saying the additional troops would come from NATO and U.S. forces."

banyon
07-31-2008, 12:49 PM
Assuming that this was directed at me for starting this thread, I don't view it as fear mongering. I view it as asking a question as to how McCain will lead the country if elected. There's an article out about how McCain is at times very shakey on details, often times leaving them to his staff. I'm all for a leader delegating, but at some point his staff has to brief him and he needs to have the intelligence to synthesize the mountains of information he'll recieve. That ability is called into question when he defers economic questions to his economic advisor only to then say that economic advisor doesn't speak for him. Only HE speaks for him.

Yet then his campaign says that McCain doesn't necessarily speak for his OWN campaign. Will he speak for his OWN presidency or will his cabinent and Chief of Staff speak for him?

It sounds like you are emphasizing his senilty and trying to raise people's apprehensions about that to me. I'm sorry if the word fearmongering is too strong, but it's not very different in kind from the nonsense about Obama being a Muslim, IMHO.

It's not the worst thing in the world, but I think the focus needs to remain on the issues.

Iowanian
07-31-2008, 12:51 PM
Who is speaking for (now coining another name) HOPeRAH?

Ultra Peanut
07-31-2008, 12:54 PM
Who is speaking for (now coining another name) HOPeRAH?Himself. His campaign is on lock.

Thus the difference.

Donger
07-31-2008, 12:57 PM
We have the issues, no need to stoop to the same baseless fearmongering as the other side.

Do you really think that Democrats "have the issue" of energy? Drilling our own soil? Etc.? You really think that Democrats have a better policy than the Republicans?

chiefforlife
07-31-2008, 01:14 PM
Do you really think that Democrats "have the issue" of energy? Drilling our own soil? Etc.? You really think that Democrats have a better policy than the Republicans?

The Dems dont seem to have a plan on energy, this bothers me.

patteeu
07-31-2008, 01:26 PM
McCains own staff says he doesnt speak for his own campaign?

Is the McCain campaign bigger than McCain himself? Is McCain just a puppet?

What kind of candidate doesnt speak for his own campaign? I think this should be given much more scrutiny. If we shouldnt listen to McCain to find out what his positions are, who then?

Dick Cheney must be behind this! :)

Iowanian
07-31-2008, 01:40 PM
Himself. His campaign is on lock.

Thus the difference.

thats bullshit and you know it.

Hoperah is an outstanding orator. He delivers speeches with great charisma and charm in a melodic cadence that hypnotises his followers. There is no denying he is great at delivering speeches. The hope-a-dope strategy is working very, very well amongst the millions of fainting goats that follow him.

I find him much, much less impressive off the cuff. W Bush unimpressive, off the cuff.

Alphaman
07-31-2008, 01:47 PM
It sounds like you are emphasizing his senilty and trying to raise people's apprehensions about that to me. I'm sorry if the word fearmongering is too strong, but it's not very different in kind from the nonsense about Obama being a Muslim, IMHO.

It's not the worst thing in the world, but I think the focus needs to remain on the issues.


Two points:

1) I'm not sure how you got "emphasizing his senility" from me pointing out that he made it a point of emphasis when strongly blasting Gramm by saying he speaks for himself, only to have his campaign say that he doesn't necessarily speak for his OWN campaign. Please explain.

2) By accusing me of "emphasizing his senility" aren't you basically admiitting to his senility? If it weren't present, it would be impossible to emphasize it.

Frankly, I've never said he's senile. I don't think he's very intelligent (which I think is why his campaign is saying he doesn't necessarily speak for the campaign), but I don't think he's senile.

banyon
07-31-2008, 01:54 PM
Two points:

1) I'm not sure how you got "emphasizing his senility" from me pointing out that he made it a point of emphasis when strongly blasting Gramm by saying he speaks for himself, only to have his campaign say that he doesn't necessarily speak for his OWN campaign. Please explain.

2) By accusing me of "emphasizing his senility" aren't you basically admiitting to his senility? If it weren't present, it would be impossible to emphasize it.

Frankly, I've never said he's senile. I don't think he's very intelligent (which I think is why his campaign is saying he doesn't necessarily speak for the campaign), but I don't think he's senile.


The video clip said a lot of things about his lack of attention to details and that's how it came off to me.

But speak for yourself, if it wasn't senility what was it that was so "scary" that you referred to in the OP?

Alphaman
07-31-2008, 01:59 PM
The video clip said a lot of things about his lack of attention to details and that's how it came off to me.

But speak for yourself, if it wasn't senility what was it that was so "scary" that you referred to in the OP?

In my opinion, lack of attention to detail speaks to his intelligence rather than senility. As I said in another thread, I'm supporting Obama over him because I think he lacks the intelligence to be President.

It is scary to me that the man who may be elected as the LEADER of this country may not speak for himself. As they asked in the video, how will he run the country, via notes and memos? If he does not speak for himself, what will his state of the union addresses mean? Will we be able to believe or trust in anything that he says or will we have to check with his Chief of Staff, cabinet and advisors to see if what he said is in line with his Presidency?

It is scary to me to have no idea if he is his own man or not. Right now I'm leaning towards not. Again, that is very scary to me.