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Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 11:29 AM
With Gordon, Butler, Teahen, Buck, falling below expectations, and Dejesus doing slightly above a major league outfielder, and a Grienke long term deal not in place. Is it time to start over? I am don't think the players we are sticking with even if they improve are a World Series win. Next year we should start getting whatever we can for the players and see if we can't shoot for 2012-2013.

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 11:31 AM
It seems to me Dayton Moore is trying to build around guys who are people that are average. It's time to scrap this team and rebuild and shoot for 5 or 6 years down the road

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 11:41 AM
No, although I agree that none of the position players that you list look like they're going to develop into a superstar. I still think Gordon can be a .275 25 and 100 player, and Butler has shown more promise as of late.

Here's an interesting section from Dutton's article in the Star today, which is worth a read if you have time (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/729325-p2.html). Basically, it sounds like the Royals are going to be very active in the off-season to continue to build:

"The shopping list seems certain to include another run-producing corner player, a proven middle infielder and another starting pitcher. Signing just one such player seems certain to push the club’s payroll past $60 million for the first time.

'No pulling back at all,' Glass said. 'No way. I despise losing, and I don’t handle it well. But I know we can win here. I know that we can build this team into a team that is in the playoffs, and I’m not going to be satisfied until we do.”'

eazyb81
08-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Teahen sucks and I doubt Moore thinks of him as an important piece. Buck is decent offensively but calls a good game, and that is really all you need out of a catcher.

Gordon and Butler have underperformed a bit but I think it's way, way too early to write them off and act like we have to start over. Not sure what you've been missing with Greinke, he's been really good this year and is only 24 years old.

Overall, we're going to finish with a better record this year than last, which is what everyone says they want at the beginning of the season, but when we don't win the division everyone acts like it's a huge surprise and a disappointment. This isn't the NFL, it takes time to turn around organizations in MLB.

eazyb81
08-01-2008, 11:44 AM
Adding on to the post from DeezNutz, if we can go out and land one big fish in free agency, whether it's Teixeira, Dunn, Burrell, Sabathia, or Sheets, that will make this team MUCH better. We would either have an anchor for our lineup to take pressure off the young kids, or an ace in the rotation that might make our starting staff one of the best in baseball.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 11:48 AM
Adding on to the post from DeezNutz, if we can go out and land one big fish in free agency, whether it's Teixeira, Dunn, Burrell, Sabathia, or Sheets, that will make this team MUCH better. We would either have an anchor for our lineup to take pressure off the young kids, or an ace in the rotation that might make our starting staff one of the best in baseball.

I really think this is the most important thing for the team to accomplish. First, it would obviously improve the talent level. But more importantly, it would change the culture and the perception of the organization, making it much easier to acquire talent in the future. We need our Pudge moment, a break-through move that makes everyone realize the team is serious about winning.

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 12:02 PM
I think we should blow it up start over shoot for 2015-2016

beavis
08-01-2008, 12:04 PM
Adding on to the post from DeezNutz, if we can go out and land one big fish in free agency, whether it's Teixeira, Dunn, Burrell, Sabathia, or Sheets, that will make this team MUCH better. We would either have an anchor for our lineup to take pressure off the young kids, or an ace in the rotation that might make our starting staff one of the best in baseball.

Totally agree. I don't think we'll have a chance at Teixeira, but I think we'd have chance to sign some combo of the others.

Ari Chi3fs
08-01-2008, 12:10 PM
we need a strong left handed starting pitcher...

I think we blow it up and shoot for 2085.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 12:20 PM
I think we should blow it up start over shoot for 2015-2016

Are you just gonna give up in 2010 too?

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 12:21 PM
yeah maybe let grienke trade dejesus and try to rebuild, we will try out the cubs 100 year rebuild mode

Ari Chi3fs
08-01-2008, 12:22 PM
Exactly, I know we can be good by the year 2085. Ill only be 112.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 12:37 PM
We might have a 1b in kaaihu or wtf his name is that just entered AAA, a 24 year old guy that has came out of nowhere in AA and has hit 2 hrs in his first 2 AAA games..I really want this guy to pan out, it would be a nice damn story to go with Aviles.

http://omaha.royals.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Kila%20Kaaihue&pos=&sid=t541&t=p_pbp&pid=451500

AA stats this year, has spent his now 3rd year in AA and then being promoted to AAA last weekend...

AA:. 91 games. .314 avg 26hr 79 rbi .463 OBP .624 slugg% 1.086 OPS Insane....
AAA so far after 2 games... 4/9 2 hr 5 rbi

This guy may be our next aviles but i hope for more, he has shown a ton of power and OBP. Doubles are the only stat lacking, he has 11. But has a great eye

Mr. Arrowhead
08-01-2008, 12:57 PM
I dont think so, and really if you think about it, if you take out that horrid losing streak we suffered earlier in the year, then the royals would be in the thick of things

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 12:58 PM
I also think we have to see what Butler and Gordon can do extensively...i also believe teahen is our next gload utility guy. I just don't see him being a full time starter, esp in the OF. I expect us to be really active next year...we are building and are headed in the right direction honestly. in DM we trust

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 12:58 PM
I dont think so, and really if you think about it, if you take out that horrid losing streak we suffered earlier in the year, then the royals would be in the thick of things

Agreed...we had a what 14 games losing streak and a 7 gamer??

siberian khatru
08-01-2008, 12:59 PM
One of the worst things hanging over this franchise right now is that Alex Gordon is not Evan Longoria or Ryan Braun.

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 01:01 PM
One of the worst things hanging over this franchise right now is that Alex Gordon is not Evan Longoria or Ryan Braun.

Sad to see someone that we thought was going to be good just be another "guy" oh well. he is kind of like the chiefs tamba hali

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 01:02 PM
One of the worst things hanging over this franchise right now is that Alex Gordon is not Evan Longoria or Ryan Braun.

If he were playing at that level right now, the excitement surrounding this team would be quite high. Although Demon is half kidding with this thread, there would be zero doom and gloom talk.

Funny how much of a difference one player can make.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 01:03 PM
One of the worst things hanging over this franchise right now is that Alex Gordon is not Evan Longoria or Ryan Braun.

That is hurting us alot, i still have alot of hope for the guy, atleast we can give him a few years like we have teahen before we consider him avg. I just expected a braun type player right away.

Butler is coming on atleast as well...

Any thoughts on our Hawaiin 1b in AAA?

Ari Chi3fs
08-01-2008, 01:05 PM
Dayton Moore
**** Yeah!

Coming again, to save the mother ****ing day, YEAH!

Dayton Moore
**** Yeah!

Freedom is the only way!

eazyb81
08-01-2008, 01:06 PM
Any thoughts on our Hawaiin 1b in AAA?

He's doing awesome? Seriously, not sure what to say right now since this breakout was so unexpected. The awesome K/BB ratio he has is what makes me especially excited that he may be the real deal.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 01:07 PM
Any thoughts on our Hawaiin 1b in AAA?

Thanks for posting his AAA stats. Very encouraging. I hope he mashes for a month or so and that we see him in mid Sept. No rush. Love his OBP.

This sounds like one of the first truly young players with a ton of power that the team has had in its system for some time. No Calvin Pickering.

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 01:08 PM
The real reason for this thread is that I heard that this was a possibility yesterday. I was like are you f-ing kidding me? Try it over again. I would sit through it again but I will be 40 before the next project goes into the prime. I know the jury is still out on the main guys on our team, but I don't know what I would do if they scrapped the guys I like and started getting prospects all over again. We missed so bad on players like colt griffen it pisses me off

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 01:10 PM
But at least Hosmer and Moosetacos are going to be the real things. I can't wait to get Melville's jersey next year at one of the Tuesday promotions.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 01:11 PM
Yeah i would like to see the Hawaiin Punch (as someone on royals.scout.com) nicknamed him...

I have alot of hope for a sept callup. The OBP i like alot, just shows he has a great eye and draws walks. At 24 this guy could be our answer at 1b next year and the foreseeable future depending on how well he does the rest of the month. I think he will continue to hit well and get on base.

We haven't had a 1b threat in a long time either. I would love for him to come out of nowhere like Hafner did for the indians.

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 01:12 PM
I heard yesterday people were calling billy butler bam bam like the guy off of the flinstones, because he is a baby, and he does nothing but hit things with a club

eazyb81
08-01-2008, 01:12 PM
Yeah i would like to see the Hawaiin Punch (as someone on royals.scout.com) nicknamed him...



Who are you on royals scout?

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 01:13 PM
Who are you on royals scout?

RoyalShizzy

are you on there? I hardly post but have done it more lately

eazyb81
08-01-2008, 01:15 PM
RoyalShizzy

are you on there? I hardly post but have done it more lately

Yeah, I'm SteveBalboniExperience. I've been posting more this summer because I've been in a boring cubicle.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 01:16 PM
Yeah, I'm SteveBalboniExperience. I've been posting more this summer because I've been in a boring cubicle.

haha nice ive seen some of your posts...

its a great royals board since there really arent any. I consistently check it during the season and here.

Royalboard a little but not as much

eazyb81
08-01-2008, 01:17 PM
haha nice ive seen some of your posts...

its a great royals board since there really arent any. I consistently check it during the season and here.

Royalboard a little but not as much

Yeah I used to be on Royalboard awhile back but it's way too boring.

Pitt Gorilla
08-01-2008, 01:19 PM
Giving up on Butler now is asinine.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 01:24 PM
Yeah I used to be on Royalboard awhile back but it's way too boring.

agreed...no one really posts there anymore

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 01:24 PM
Giving up on Butler now is asinine.

When the Teahens of the world get 4 years i think we can do that for butler and gordon too easily

StcChief
08-01-2008, 01:29 PM
hasn't this been going on for quite a while under new ownership? or before with Glass selling off his talent, Beltran, Dye, etc.

kcchiefsus
08-01-2008, 01:55 PM
Sad to see someone that we thought was going to be good just be another "guy" oh well. he is kind of like the chiefs tamba hali

Oh give me a ****ing break. How the hell are either Gordon or Hali already at the top of their game? They aren't.

KCrockaholic
08-01-2008, 02:09 PM
I say we start over and shoot for 2041-42 ....ok heres how we do it... We start off paying Barry Bonds to make as many babies as possible with Womens college world series pitchers. Then have Bonds ship them off to foster homes in downtown KC. Have George Brett find local prostitutes, as we will pay him 5 million per baby. Once these babies grow up, we will pay Hall of Famer Albert Pujols (from KC) to train these kids starting at age 3. once they hit age 20 we recuit them to play for the Royals, ...we will have 50+ homeruns per player..which will ultimately lead us to the World Series once again...and we will rule MLB for atleast a decade.

Kraus
08-01-2008, 02:19 PM
I say we start over and shoot for 2041-42 ....ok heres how we do it... We start off paying Barry Bonds to make as many babies as possible with Womens college world series pitchers. Then have Bonds ship them off to foster homes in downtown KC. Have George Brett find local prostitutes, as we will pay him 5 million per baby. Once these babies grow up, we will pay Hall of Famer Albert Pujols (from KC) to train these kids starting at age 3. once they hit age 20 we recuit them to play for the Royals, ...we will have 50+ homeruns per player..which will ultimately lead us to the World Series once again...and we will rule MLB for atleast a decade.

Huh? :spock:

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 02:22 PM
I say we start over and shoot for 2041-42 ....ok heres how we do it... We start off paying Barry Bonds to make as many babies as possible with Womens college world series pitchers. Then have Bonds ship them off to foster homes in downtown KC. Have George Brett find local prostitutes, as we will pay him 5 million per baby. Once these babies grow up, we will pay Hall of Famer Albert Pujols (from KC) to train these kids starting at age 3. once they hit age 20 we recuit them to play for the Royals, ...we will have 50+ homeruns per player..which will ultimately lead us to the World Series once again...and we will rule MLB for atleast a decade.
Christ, its like the soviet eugenics programs on steroids. (har har.) I'm for it.

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 02:24 PM
Oh give me a ****ing break. How the hell are either Gordon or Hali already at the top of their game? They aren't.

I think hali is on the downslope. I see now he has lost weight. Such a shame. Maybe we can get a 6th rounder

KCrockaholic
08-01-2008, 02:56 PM
I think hali is on the downslope. I see now he has lost weight. Such a shame. Maybe we can get a 6th rounder

how is he on the downslope??? he's played 2 seasons! ...damn, i guess that means DJ, Page, Pollard, Croyle are all on downslopes.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 03:04 PM
how is he on the downslope??? he's played 2 seasons! ...damn, i guess that means DJ, Page, Pollard, Croyle are all on downslopes.

It's ok, I missed out on his sarcasm the first time around too.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 03:05 PM
It's ok, I missed out on his sarcasm the first time around too.

You can't tell half the time with his posting style

KCrockaholic
08-01-2008, 03:07 PM
...between, him and Claythan i just cant tell if there being serious half the time...especially with Claythan's homosexual jokes.

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 03:07 PM
I am dead serious this time. TRADE HIM!

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 03:11 PM
Demonpenz is a younger Skip. Jimmy is an even older Skip, though, and that's why he was only drafted in the 43rd round.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 03:13 PM
I am dead serious this time. TRADE HIM!
i'm on the fence about Greinke. Dejesus I would trade pretty quickly though. I am afraid he will never be worth more. Its all for naught, however because the trade deadline has passed.

Demonpenz
08-01-2008, 03:18 PM
The grienke thing reminds me back in 72. The boys were out drinking because Snugga just got back from NAM. Now I am sure he didn't see much action, but for some reason he kept on telling people that he was in "THE SHIT" Anyway we went down to the OZARKS for some old fashion fun. This is when the strip was a happening place. People with their wives, lovers, main bitches etc, Well we got half cocked on Some johnny walker black and we devised a way to win enough tickets in skee ball to buy the entire box of spider rings. So me jackie, and butch distracted the younger Skee ball manager while snugga dropped a bunch of skee balls in the 50 slot. PERFECT GAME someone shouted out. Turns out that was the first perfect game ever at crazy Ray's skee ball emporium. Confused Snugga was interviewed by the local news paper about the game, snugga just told the person the truth. That the devil tought him to play ski ball. This is back before Marilyn Manson and John tesh and such. So we were in a heep of trouble. I bet we didn't go under 100 mph by time we reached the Arkansas county line. We never did get the spiders

thurman merman
08-01-2008, 04:26 PM
this team is really moving in the right direction. it wouldn't hurt to get rid of some guys (pena, gobble, peralta, gathright, teahen, etc.) but they definitely don't need to "start over." they have a very good bullpen outside of gobble and peralta (who usually are only called upon for mop-up duty anyway). their starting rotation is decent, and very good at times. greinke and meche are solid. i think hochevar will get better as time goes on. bannister and davies i'm not so sure about. they are a couple of good starting pitchers and a couple of good hitters away from being a serious competitor. i really think that can happen by next year.

JuicesFlowing
08-01-2008, 06:10 PM
Blow up the whole thing. I don't think it would be any worse than what's been happening the last 20 years ...

BigChiefFan
08-01-2008, 06:15 PM
Add two premier pitchers and two big power bats and the team will be able to compete with any team out there.

Mr. Arrowhead
08-01-2008, 06:39 PM
Agreed...we had a what 14 games losing streak and a 7 gamer??
even if you keep that 7 gamer in there and lets say we split the 14 gamer at 7-7, our record would still be at 57-52

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 06:55 PM
I really think this is the most important thing for the team to accomplish. First, it would obviously improve the talent level. But more importantly, it would change the culture and the perception of the organization, making it much easier to acquire talent in the future. We need our Pudge moment, a break-through move that makes everyone realize the team is serious about winning.

You would have to be beyond retarded to give up two first round draft picks for Adam Dunn and pay him 15 million/year. The guy is the Rob Deer of outfielders.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 06:56 PM
Add two premier pitchers and two big power bats and the team will be able to compete with any team out there.

So the Royals are suddenly going to add 75 million per year to their payroll?

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 07:00 PM
You would have to be beyond retarded to give up two first round draft picks for Adam Dunn and pay him 15 million/year. The guy is the Rob Deer of outfielders.

Did I say this? :shrug:

The team needs a legit offensive star. That's my stance.

Regarding Dunn, he's going to be a free agent, no? Where are you getting the 2 first round picks?

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 07:13 PM
For the record, I'd go after Teixeira very hard. Jayson Stark said Tex. would likely get a contract around 5-6 for around 110. Of course this might not be accurate at all. Let's assume it is. For the Royals, I'd like to see if 6 for 120 would get him thinking, if not signed.

Dunn has great power. You'd say 10-12 per would be fair, right? If this is the case, I don't give a shit if Glass has to overpay by 3 mil or so. Not my money and this team needs power.

Naturally, we'll have to move someone so Gload can remain in the lineup. Hillman could win anything with 35 Gloads.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 07:15 PM
You would have to be beyond retarded to give up two first round draft picks for Adam Dunn and pay him 15 million/year. The guy is the Rob Deer of outfielders.

The Royals wouldn't give up 1st rounders? this isn't the NFL
He is a FA and wouldn't cost them picks. i would take a look at him, 40 hr power is desperatly needed in this organization. Our damnHR record is 36!

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 07:17 PM
For the record, I'd go after Teixeira very hard. Jayson Stark said Tex. would likely get a contract around 5-6 for around 110. Of course this might not be accurate at all. Let's assume it is. For the Royals, I'd like to see if 6 for 120 would get him thinking, if not signed.

Dunn has great power. You'd say 10-12 per would be fair, right? If this is the case, I don't give a shit if Glass has to overpay by 3 mil or so. Not my money and this team needs power.

Naturally, we'll have to move someone so Gload can remain in the lineup. Hillman could win anything with 35 Gloads.

I have a feeling we will be active in the offseason with possible deals and FA opp's. I think we should take a look at Tex for sure, but unlikely he comes here. I'd feel good about Burrell and Dunn probably coming. Maybe Giambi..

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 07:21 PM
I have a feeling we will be active in the offseason with possible deals and FA opp's. I think we should take a look at Tex for sure, but unlikely he comes here. I'd feel good about Burrell and Dunn probably coming. Maybe Giambi..

I hear you. But why is everyone so pessimistic about the possibility of signing Tex? For the sake of argument, let's say his best offer is 5 for 110 from the Angels. Great team and chance to win. Would he turn down 6 for 132 from KC? This is what it would take. KC won't get him for an extra 2-5 mil.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 07:23 PM
I hear you. But why is everyone so pessimistic about the possibility of signing Tex? For the sake of argument, let's say his best offer is 5 for 110 from the Angels. Great team and chance to win. Would he turn down 6 for 132 from KC? This is what it would take. KC won't get him for an extra 2-5 mil.


Because we aren't used to having studs come here, mostly leaving here. That might be why....I wanted Guillen like 5 years ago when he was a Red and on fire. We got Juan Gone when he was at the latter stages as well and well he was a pussy. I have hopes they'll make heavy efforts, but the lack of winning may hurt chances. Lets hope Dayton sells hard.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 07:26 PM
Because we aren't used to having studs come here, mostly leaving here. That might be why....I wanted Guillen like 5 years ago when he was a Red and on fire. We got Juan Gone when he was at the latter stages as well and well he was a pussy. I have hopes they'll make heavy efforts, but the lack of winning may hurt chances. Lets hope Dayton sells hard.

All I know is that A-Rod signed with the Rangers when they were a sack of shit. It's going to take money, but if KC can get an elite player, this will make future signings MUCH easier. Glass is going to have to overpay, but he should consider it a late bill for all his cheap ways during the past decade.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 07:34 PM
All I know is that A-Rod signed with the Rangers when they were a sack of shit. It's going to take money, but if KC can get an elite player, this will make future signings MUCH easier. Glass is going to have to overpay, but he should consider it a late bill for all his cheap ways during the past decade.

agreed....we definetly need a few key veteran additions that can show the butlers and gordons by example.

SithCeNtZ
08-01-2008, 07:41 PM
All I know is that A-Rod signed with the Rangers when they were a sack of shit. It's going to take money, but if KC can get an elite player, this will make future signings MUCH easier. Glass is going to have to overpay, but he should consider it a late bill for all his cheap ways during the past decade.

C'mon, the Arod deal is not a good measure for what is possible for the Royals. The Rangers signed him for something like 70 million more than any other team offered and it ended up crippling their franchise because they couldn't sign anyone else. To put it in perspective, Arod got over 100 million more than the next highest paid guy. We will be nowhere close in the Tex negotiations and I doubt we ever get mentioned as a player for him.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 07:43 PM
C'mon, the Arod deal is not a good measure for what is possible for the Royals. The Rangers signed him for something like 70 million more than any other team offered and it ended up crippling their franchise because they couldn't sign anyone else. To put it in perspective, Arod got over 100 million more than the next highest paid guy. We will be nowhere close in the Tex negotiations and I doubt we ever get mentioned as a player for him.

A-Rod was an extreme. No question. You think the Royals can't afford the type of contract I've been suggesting? There's no reason why KC shouldn't be a player, financially speaking.

SithCeNtZ
08-01-2008, 07:47 PM
A-Rod was an extreme. No question. You think the Royals can't afford the type of contract I've been suggesting? There's no reason why KC shouldn't be a player, financially speaking.

I think they can and I agree that we should try, but I just don't see him even considering us. This is a better question: when was the last time a star player came on the free agent market and was mentioned with any bad teams? I can't think of one. We have to take our risks like Pudge and Magglio worked out for Detroit to be successful. We tried it with Guillen and it hasn't quite worked out but maybe the next one will. I just don't see any stud player considering us.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 07:52 PM
I think they can and I agree that we should try, but I just don't see him even considering us. This is a better question: when was the last time a star player came on the free agent market and was mentioned with any bad teams? I can't think of one. We have to take our risks like Pudge and Magglio worked out for Detroit to be successful. We tried it with Guillen and it hasn't quite worked out but maybe the next one will. I just don't see any stud player considering us.

Hmmm...Pudge is the example that most point to, but he would probably be more accurately decribed as a declining player when Detroit signed him. Other than this, it would be A-Rod, and we've discussed this.

I would like to see what an extra 20 mil. would do to Tex's thought process, though. He still might pass. Who could blame him? But this is a lot of money, and that's all KC can realistically offer.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 07:55 PM
Too bad we didn't trade for Quentin, what a damn steal

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 07:56 PM
The Royals wouldn't give up 1st rounders? this isn't the NFL
He is a FA and wouldn't cost them picks. i would take a look at him, 40 hr power is desperatly needed in this organization. Our damnHR record is 36!

Yes, they do. Any type A or Type B FA if they decline arbitration (which they always do) commands draft picks from the signing team. If the Royals sign him they have to give up their first two picks to the Reds.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 07:58 PM
Yes, they do. Any type A or Type B FA if they decline arbitration (which they always do) commands draft picks from the signing team. If the Royals sign him they have to give up their first two picks to the Reds.

I thought the team would receive a comp. pick or two. But aren't these from the league?

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 08:01 PM
I thought the team would receive a comp. pick or two. But aren't these from the league?

That is my thought as well...i assume the team that signs the player doesn't lose picks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 08:02 PM
I thought the team would receive a comp. pick or two. But aren't these from the league?

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6911

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 08:03 PM
Found this on a site...interesting
http://soxprospects.wikispaces.com/MLB+Compensatory+Draft+Pick+System

Type A Free Agent Compensation

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If a Type A free agent is offered salary arbitration by his former team, but declines arbitration and signs with another team, the signing club must compensate the former club a first round draft pick in the upcoming season’s amateur draft. However, picks 1-15 may not be awarded as compensation - in the event the signing club owns a pick from 1-15, that team forfeits its second round pick rather than its first round pick. Additionally, if the signing club signs more than one Type A Free agent, that signing team also must compensate the other Type A free agent's previous club its second round pick, and a third round pick for a third signed Type A free agent, etc. The determination of which former team gets the higher compensation pick is based on the signing players' Elias rankings - the player with the highest ranking yields the highest pick to the that player’s former team. In addition to this compensation, a "sandwich pick" is created between the first and second round (the "sandwich round") to further compensate the former club for the loss of a Type A player. Picks awarded as compensation for the loos of a Type A player may not be later forfeited.


Type B Free Agent Compensation

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If a Type B free agent is offered salary arbitration by his former team, but instead declines arbitration and signs with another team, the former team is compensated with a sandwich pick. The signing team does not lose any draft picks for signing the Type B free agent. Picks awarded as compensation for the loos of a Type B player may not be later forfeited. There is no compensation required for free agents ranked lower than 40% (there is no longer a “Type C” classification).


Sandwich Round Order

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Clubs that have lost a Type A free agent shall receive the first selections, in the reverse order of their won-lost percentage in the preceding season. Each team who lost a Type A player will pick once before any other team who lost a Type A Player picks for a second time in the Sandwich Round, then if a team lost a second Type A player it will pick again. (For example, if the NYY have the worst record in baseball and lose two Type A free agents, they would have the first sandwich pick, then all the other teams who lost Type A players will pick once, then the NYY would recieve their comp pick for the second type A player). Following these selections, Clubs that have lost a Type B free agent shall receive selections, in reverse order of their won-lost percentage from the preceding season in the same fashion as the Type A comps. Sandwich picks may not be forfeited.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:04 PM
You would have to be beyond retarded to give up two first round draft picks for Adam Dunn and pay him 15 million/year. The guy is the Rob Deer of outfielders.

I'm going to disagree with you here to an extent, Sure Dunn K's alot but he also walks just as much, he has a very good OBP.

His power plus his walk numbers in my opinion makes his K numbers not a big deal he gets on base alot.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:05 PM
Don't worry the big money deal is Dayton Moore spending a bunch of money on the just off back surgery Furcal, bank it.

Jenson71
08-01-2008, 08:05 PM
I'm going to disagree with you here to an extent, Sure Dunn K's alot but he also walks just as much, he has a very good OBP.

His power plus his walk numbers in my opinion makes his K numbers not a big deal he gets on base alot.

Hey Mecca, I had another question for you in the NCAA 09 thread.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 08:06 PM
That is my thought as well...i assume the team that signs the player doesn't lose picks.

Incorrect. If you are in the top 15, that pick is protected, but you lose your next highest pick. If you are out of the top 15, you lose that pick. As well, the team you lost him from gets a sandwich pick between the first and second round.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 08:07 PM
Don't worry the big money deal is Dayton Moore spending a bunch of money on the just off back surgery Furcal, bank it.

I'd love to sign furcal but not for any sort of big money, 1 year or 2 year deal at the most...but i can see how that would happen.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 08:07 PM
Incorrect. If you are in the top 15, that pick is protected, but you lose your next highest pick. If you are out of the top 15, you lose that pick. As well, the team you lost him from gets a sandwich pick between the first and second round.

I am suprised i didn't know that, but i never did follow the compensation pick rules ever. Learn something new everyday, thanks for the correction.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:08 PM
I'd love to sign furcal but not for any sort of big money, 1 year or 2 year deal at the most...but i can see how that would happen.

Anyone coming here is getting alot of money, if he wanted a low money short term deal he could go to a good team.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:08 PM
Incorrect. If you are in the top 15, that pick is protected, but you lose your next highest pick. If you are out of the top 15, you lose that pick. As well, the team you lost him from gets a sandwich pick between the first and second round.

Ok.

In that case, the club losing a 2nd round pick for any upper-tier free agent is the least of my worries because we're sure as hell going to be selecting top 15.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 08:08 PM
I'm going to disagree with you here to an extent, Sure Dunn K's alot but he also walks just as much, he has a very good OBP.

His power plus his walk numbers in my opinion makes his K numbers not a big deal he gets on base alot.

K numbers are always big deals because they are horribly unproductive outs. It's the Reggie Sanders corrolary. It doesn't pop up in stats like OPS, but if you are striking out in 20-30% of your at bats, especially if you are a middle of the order hitter, you are killing your team's chances to score runs.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:09 PM
I am suprised i didn't know that, but i never did follow the compensation pick rules ever. Learn something new everyday, thanks for the correction.

So a draft pick out of the top 15 should keep us from signing a dude who would easily smash the Royals HR record and be the best power hitter we've had probably ever?

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:10 PM
K numbers are always big deals because they are horribly unproductive outs. It's the Reggie Sanders corrolary. It doesn't pop up in stats like OPS, but if you are striking out in 20-30% of your at bats, especially if you are a middle of the order hitter, you are killing your team's chances to score runs.

Even with all his K's I bet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this team that has a similar OBP....and I think his HR totals are more than the Royals top 2 guys combined.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:12 PM
The Royals need to develop their own talent. We're small market.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:14 PM
The Royals need to develop their own talent. We're small market.

Yea I um don't think that's working.....in baseball you have to do both, when you expect a rookie to be the key cog in your offensive lineup that's probably to much to start a career.

And I'm tired of watching guys like Ross Gload.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:16 PM
Yea I um don't think that's working.....in baseball you have to do both, when you expect a rookie to be the key cog in your offensive lineup that's probably to much to start a career.

And I'm tired of watching guys like Ross Gload.

We could win a lot of games if we had 25 Ross Gloads...




and they were all allowed to take the field at once.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:17 PM
We could win a lot of games if we had 25 Ross Gloads...




and they were all allowed to take the field at once.

That just cracked me up...

I think the Royals have some pieces that they'd be ok with if they'd put them in their correct roles, we have role players and no centerpieces.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:18 PM
That just cracked me up...

I think the Royals have some pieces that they'd be ok with if they'd put them in their correct roles, we have role players and no centerpieces.

Yes. 100 percent agreed.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 08:18 PM
Even with all his K's I bet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this team that has a similar OBP....and I think his HR totals are more than the Royals top 2 guys combined.

I don't doubt that they are, but teams like the Royals need to stop brining in high priced mediocre talent like Meche, and Guillen, and look at how the Rays have done it.

You spend 1/3 the amount that Dunn would command per year and you can get an entire new scouting department, a much better minor league staff, and a good Latin American program--all of which will reap far more benefits than one high priced home run hitter.

Personally, I think that the 3-run homer offense (which is the thing that sabermetricians worship) is destined for failure in the postseason. I know you're a long way from competing, but high K guys get exposed something terrible in the post season.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:20 PM
I just don't think you'll ever compete in the AL with a guy who can't hit 40, you need atleast 1 of those guys.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:29 PM
I don't doubt that they are, but teams like the Royals need to stop brining in high priced mediocre talent like Meche, and Guillen, and look at how the Rays have done it.

You spend 1/3 the amount that Dunn would command per year and you can get an entire new scouting department, a much better minor league staff, and a good Latin American program--all of which will reap far more benefits than one high priced home run hitter.

Personally, I think that the 3-run homer offense (which is the thing that sabermetricians worship) is destined for failure in the postseason. I know you're a long way from competing, but high K guys get exposed something terrible in the post season.

First, what do you think Dunn is going to command? KC has to field a ML team, and currently the Royals payroll is a joke, especially considering that they're getting 70-80 mil in revenue sharing.

I agree with your points about improved scouting and resources in Latin America, but these elements shouldn't affect the ML payroll. It's the cost of doing business and if Glass isn't prepared for this, he should sell the team.

SithCeNtZ
08-01-2008, 08:30 PM
I don't doubt that they are, but teams like the Royals need to stop brining in high priced mediocre talent like Meche, and Guillen, and look at how the Rays have done it.

You spend 1/3 the amount that Dunn would command per year and you can get an entire new scouting department, a much better minor league staff, and a good Latin American program--all of which will reap far more benefits than one high priced home run hitter.

Personally, I think that the 3-run homer offense (which is the thing that sabermetricians worship) is destined for failure in the postseason. I know you're a long way from competing, but high K guys get exposed something terrible in the post season.

For the 10000000000000000th time, the Royals are doing both. Signing Meche is not hurting the Royals in international scouting nor is it hurting them in the draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 08:31 PM
For the 10000000000000000th time, the Royals are doing both. Signing Meche is not hurting the Royals in international scouting nor is it hurting them in the draft.

You might want to check and see how many draft picks you had to give up for Guillen and Meche. They are hurting you through the draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 08:32 PM
First, what do you think Dunn is going to command? KC has to field a ML team, and currently the Royals payroll is a joke, especially considering that they're getting 70-80 mil in revenue sharing.

I agree with your points about improved scouting and resources in Latin America, but these elements shouldn't affect the ML payroll. It's the cost of doing business and if Glass isn't prepared for this, he should sell the team.

5 years, 80 million, which would tie up 40 million a year in three players, plus you'll be giving up a high draft pick for him. Moreover, he won't have any protection in this lineup, so you might not get the #'s you'd expect from him.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:33 PM
You might want to check and see how many draft picks you had to give up for Guillen and Meche. They are hurting you through the draft.

None. I'm wrong, I guess??? Certainly none for Guillen, at least from what I've heard.

ML teams don't "give up" a sandwich pick.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:33 PM
5 years, 80 million, which would tie up 40 million a year in three players, plus you'll be giving up a high draft pick for him. Moreover, he won't have any protection in this lineup.

So 16 per. Ok. Now what do you think Dunn is "worth"?

Again, a second rounder should be the least of our concerns.

SithCeNtZ
08-01-2008, 08:39 PM
You might want to check and see how many draft picks you had to give up for Guillen and Meche. They are hurting you through the draft.

Those picks are instantly offset by Moore spending more on lower picks in the draft like Melville. They have dumped more money into international scouting and in the draft and none of that is hurt by Meche and Guillen.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:42 PM
I think Dunn is more of a 12-15 guy teams will go "look at his K's" or his average like posters here do and he'll get undervalued I believe....

I don't think they gave up any picks for Guillen because of how late he was signed. Either way the Royals have to start building a middle of the order, and a middle of the order shouldn't be featuring a guy who has 14 HR's in August as a cleanup hitter.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:44 PM
I think Dunn is more of a 12-15 guy teams will go "look at his K's" or his average like posters here do and he'll get undervalued I believe....

I don't think they gave up any picks for Guillen because of how late he was signed. Either way the Royals have to start building a middle of the order, and a middle of the order shouldn't be featuring a guy who has 14 HR's in August as a cleanup hitter.

This is more my point with Hamas. If he's really a 12 guy but Glass has to pay him 16 per, I don't care. At all. This lineup needs some thump. We're still at a point where it's entirely possible that KC won't have a 20 HR guy this year.

SithCeNtZ
08-01-2008, 08:46 PM
None. I'm wrong, I guess??? Certainly none for Guillen, at least from what I've heard.

ML teams don't "give up" a sandwich pick.

Yea we didn't lose anything for Meche and I can't see anything about us losing anything for Guillen.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:48 PM
Yea we didn't lose anything for Meche and I can't see anything about us losing anything for Guillen.

Thanks. That's what I thought.

Most of the local radio guys were so negative about the Guillen signing in the first place that the loss of draft picks would have triggered a complete meltdown.

Mecca
08-01-2008, 08:50 PM
Thanks. That's what I thought.

Most of the local radio guys were so negative about the Guillen signing in the first place that the loss of draft picks would have triggered a complete meltdown.

The hatred for him is hilarious, he can be a starter on a good team, but on this team he's the best offensive player on the roster...

He's another role player who right now is being asked to be a centerpiece.

DeezNutz
08-01-2008, 08:52 PM
The hatred for him is hilarious, he can be a starter on a good team, but on this team he's the best offensive player on the roster...

He's another role player who right now is being asked to be a centerpiece.

He has to be a piece, not the piece.

Part of the frustration with Guillen, however, also stems from the fact that he should be better than what he is. He has the necessary tools, but he lacks the "want to." His unwillingness to walk is a great example of this.

Sure-Oz
08-01-2008, 09:20 PM
So a draft pick out of the top 15 should keep us from signing a dude who would easily smash the Royals HR record and be the best power hitter we've had probably ever?


A big hell no!

Sign away

Deberg_1990
08-01-2008, 11:09 PM
Add two premier pitchers and two big power bats and the team will be able to compete with any team out there.


Sure, like its "just that easy" hahaha

This is the Royals.

First, alot of top tier talent doesnt want to come to KC because of the "culture of losers" perception.

Second, the Royals would never shell out that kind of money for that much free agent talent at once.

That means they have to develop it in house, and we all know how good the Royals have been the past 20 years drafting and developing talent. ROFL

Jayhawkerman2001
08-02-2008, 01:50 AM
With Gordon, Butler, Teahen, Buck, falling below expectations, and Dejesus doing slightly above a major league outfielder, and a Grienke long term deal not in place. Is it time to start over? I am don't think the players we are sticking with even if they improve are a World Series win. Next year we should start getting whatever we can for the players and see if we can't shoot for 2012-2013.

that has to be the most ignorant thing i have ever seen... No way should we give up on gordon or butler at all. they havent even finished up their second full year in the bigs

Pitt Gorilla
08-02-2008, 03:53 PM
It's too bad Butler doesn't have any power.