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View Full Version : Elections Wal-Mart warns of Democratic win.


Alton deFlat
08-01-2008, 10:31 AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121755649066303381.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is mobilizing its store managers and department supervisors around the country to warn that if Democrats win power in November, they’ll likely change federal law to make it easier for workers to unionize companies — including Wal-Mart.

In recent weeks, thousands of Wal-Mart store managers and department heads have been summoned to mandatory meetings at which the retailer stresses the downside for workers if stores were to be unionized.

According to about a dozen Wal-Mart employees who attended such meetings in seven states, Wal-Mart executives claim that employees at unionized stores would have to pay hefty union dues while getting nothing in return, and may have to go on strike without compensation. Also, unionization could mean fewer jobs as labor costs rise.

The actions by Wal-Mart — the nation’s largest private employer — reflect a growing concern among big business that a reinvigorated labor movement could reverse years of declining union membership. That could lead to higher payroll and health costs for companies already being hurt by rising fuel and commodities costs and the tough economic climate.

The Wal-Mart human-resources managers who run the meetings don’t specifically tell attendees how to vote in November’s election, but make it clear that voting for Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama would be tantamount to inviting unions in, according to Wal-Mart employees who attended gatherings in Maryland, Missouri and other states.

“The meeting leader said, ‘I am not telling you how to vote, but if the Democrats win, this bill will pass and you won’t have a vote on whether you want a union,’” said a Wal-Mart customer-service supervisor from Missouri. “I am not a stupid person. They were telling me how to vote,” she said.

BucEyedPea
08-01-2008, 10:39 AM
Some good irony there. They were influencing them on how to vote as in a warning that the unions will take away their vote eventually. What's wrong with that? You want prices to go up too?

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 10:46 AM
LoL Wal Mart is a joke. I havn't shopped there in about 3 years, nor will I ever again. That company has done as much to destroy our economy as they have to help lower costs.

My personal opinion is that every time a person spends money at Wal Mart they directly contribute to our National Debt by financing China, promote lower wages in the service sector by contributing to Wal Mart's profitability, and finally, promote the perception that corporate greed is good for Americans even while they piss on their employees.

http://kennmakk.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/wal-mart-always-low-morals%e2%80%94always/

HonestChieffan
08-01-2008, 11:15 AM
Businesses based on competition and capitalism will all fear the impact of a social agenda pushed by Pelosi and Obama.

Calcountry
08-01-2008, 11:20 AM
LoL Wal Mart is a joke. I havn't shopped there in about 3 years, nor will I ever again. That company has done as much to destroy our economy as they have to help lower costs.

My personal opinion is that every time a person spends money at Wal Mart they directly contribute to our National Debt by financing China, promote lower wages in the service sector by contributing to Wal Mart's profitability, and finally, promote the perception that corporate greed is good for Americans even while they piss on their employees.

http://kennmakk.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/wal-mart-always-low-morals%e2%80%94always/

The solution, is to make Labor in China go union. lol

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 11:26 AM
LoL Wal Mart is a joke. I havn't shopped there in about 3 years, nor will I ever again. That company has done as much to destroy our economy as they have to help lower costs.

My personal opinion is that every time a person spends money at Wal Mart they directly contribute to our National Debt by financing China, promote lower wages in the service sector by contributing to Wal Mart's profitability, and finally, promote the perception that corporate greed is good for Americans even while they piss on their employees.

http://kennmakk.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/wal-mart-always-low-morals%e2%80%94always/

Destroy our economy? Right, based on what? Contribute to our national trade DEFICIT maybe, not our national DEBT. Also, maybe our labor needs to fall in price to be competitive with an increasingly global economy, did you think about that? As for corporate greed, that's just unsubstantiated rhetoric. Wal-Mart hardly pisses on their employees. Their employees agree to work their for the designated wage. It is a mutual agreement. Wal-mart actually creates more jobs by employing people cheaply. Further still, they help sustain the same people by offering the lowest cost products and the employee discount pretty much gets it down to cost. Good times.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 11:41 AM
Businesses based on competition and capitalism will all fear the impact of a social agenda pushed by Pelosi and Obama.

Please clarify capitalism. Do you mean United States Democratic capitalism or Chineese Communist Socialist capitalism? The current environment in place makes it hard for employees to have a voice. This has been a fixture of the American landscape ever since Regan forced Union airline employees to give up their pensions in the 80's. Bill Clinton's signing of favored nation status with China (passed by Republican Congress) then multiplied the effects on the middle class. As a nation we can only sustain trade if there is a balance, and currently there is a huge deficit because of coroporate greed. If unions/workers had a voice, do you think they would choose to work for the pittance offered by companies like Wal Mart? If union membership was still as strong as it used to be do you really believe the middle class would have been ignored as their jobs were given to Chineese sweatshops for nothing in return?

Your obvious blind devotion to the Republicans while blaming Democrats is a big part of why nothing ever gets done to protect Americans. The problem we face as a nation is that of corporations buying our polititions (Democrats and Republicans).

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 11:47 AM
Destroy our economy? Right, based on what? Contribute to our national trade DEFICIT maybe, not our national DEBT. Also, maybe our labor needs to fall in price to be competitive with an increasingly global economy, did you think about that? As for corporate greed, that's just unsubstantiated rhetoric. Wal-Mart hardly pisses on their employees. Their employees agree to work their for the designated wage. It is a mutual agreement. Wal-mart actually creates more jobs by employing people cheaply. Further still, they help sustain the same people by offering the lowest cost products and the employee discount pretty much gets it down to cost. Good times.

Hmmm, our government decided to give us a stimulus package. Do you really believe that was a tax rebate? The money was borrowed from China. That's National debt not deficit. China could collapse the value of the dollar tomarrow if they wanted to, but I suspect they wont because we continue to siphen even more to them as I sit here typing. The next link proves my point. Try to read it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml

Did you even watch the link I submitted in my post? You don't call that pissing on employees?

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 11:51 AM
Hmmm, our government decided to give us a stimulus package. Do you really believe that was a tax rebate? The money was borrowed from China. That's National debt not deficit. China could collapse the value of the dollar tomarrow if they wanted to, but I suspect they wont because we continue to siphen even more to them as I sit here typing. The next link proves my point. Try to read it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml

Did you even watch the link I submitted in my post? You don't call that pissing on employees?

uh, no the lawyer pissed on her. Her continuing medical bills are not her liability and therefore not her insurers liability. Then she went and signed away the person at faults liability. I fail to see what wal-mart has to do with it.

As for the government stimulus package; i fail to see how wal-mart caused that. I would take that up with your congressperson. I am all about fiscal responsibility. Anyone here can tell you that.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 11:52 AM
The solution, is to make Labor in China go union. lol

Good point. Big corporations try to equate unions with Socialism a lot, when in fact unions give a voice to the common people. Communist socialism does nothing of the sort, just ask 6 year old, Kin Jung Sau, as she labors making Bratz dolls in 90 degree heat.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 11:56 AM
uh, no the lawyer pissed on her. Her continuing medical bills are not her liability and therefore not her insurers liability. Then she went and signed away the person at faults liability. I fail to see what wal-mart has to do with it.

As for the government stimulus package; i fail to see how wal-mart caused that. I would take that up with your congressperson. I am all about fiscal responsibility. Anyone here can tell you that.

So if corporations had not shipped many manufactoring jobs to China would they have agreed to loan our government money to further stimulate their economy? If many of the middle class jobs were still here for American workers would we even have needed a stimulus package? It's not going to stop until the corporations have squeezed every last cent from middle America and there is no more money to buy the stuff made in China.

Calcountry
08-01-2008, 12:04 PM
Good point. Big corporations try to equate unions with Socialism a lot, when in fact unions give a voice to the common people. Communist socialism does nothing of the sort, just ask 6 year old, Kin Jung Sau, as she labors making Bratz dolls in 90 degree heat.

Sometimes Unions do crappy work, GM, and turn out inferior product, GM, and expect a raise, GM, more time off, and benifits, GM.

That is when they go wrong and bankrupt the hand that feeds them, then blame it on the dumb managers.

With that said, sweatshops are something that no human being deserves to be put through just to get some food to eat and stay off the streats, all the while makeing the boss wealthy.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 12:15 PM
Destroy our economy? Right, based on what? Contribute to our national trade DEFICIT maybe, not our national DEBT. Also, maybe our labor needs to fall in price to be competitive with an increasingly global economy, did you think about that? As for corporate greed, that's just unsubstantiated rhetoric. Wal-Mart hardly pisses on their employees. Their employees agree to work their for the designated wage. It is a mutual agreement. Wal-mart actually creates more jobs by employing people cheaply. Further still, they help sustain the same people by offering the lowest cost products and the employee discount pretty much gets it down to cost. Good times.

My mom has worked in the grocery industry for 20 years. In the past, she had good medical benefits, made a fair wage and overall had a decent job. Since what she calls the Wal-Martization of the industry, she no longer has great medical benefits, her overall income, due to loss of hours and increase in paying for lower medical benefits, has gone down considerably. She has begged me not to shop at Wal-Mart becasue of the way they have changed the industry. The workforce is not better off with Wal-Mart around. Sure prices are cheaper, but at what cost? I see it first hand with her, and it sucks. She is in her late 50's now. She can't just change careers. Plus, when she really needs her medical benefits to be what they use to be, they are horrendous, and she pays more now.

I shop Target.

RJ
08-01-2008, 12:33 PM
My mom has worked in the grocery industry for 20 years. In the past, she had good medical benefits, made a fair wage and overall had a decent job. Since what she calls the Wal-Martization of the industry, she no longer has great medical benefits, her overall income, due to loss of hours and increase in paying for lower medical benefits, has gone down considerably. She has begged me not to shop at Wal-Mart becasue of the way they have changed the industry. The workforce is not better off with Wal-Mart around. Sure prices are cheaper, but at what cost? I see it first hand with her, and it sucks. She is in her late 50's now. She can't just change careers. Plus, when she really needs her medical benefits to be what they use to be, they are horrendous, and she pays more now.

I shop Target.



I remember 20 or so years ago that grocery jobs were pretty good as those sorts of jobs went. The pay was decent and the benefits were excellent. Of course, they were mostly union jobs back then. Now very few are union and most grocery employees get no benefits at all as they are generally not given enough hours to be considered full time employees.

Not necessarily blaming it on Walmart, just saying that jobs in that industry aren't what they used to be.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 12:46 PM
I remember 20 or so years ago that grocery jobs were pretty good as those sorts of jobs went. The pay was decent and the benefits were excellent. Of course, they were mostly union jobs back then. Now very few are union and most grocery employees get no benefits at all as they are generally not given enough hours to be considered full time employees.

Not necessarily blaming it on Walmart, just saying that jobs in that industry aren't what they used to be.

The heads of the grocery industry took their cue from Wal-Mart. Thats is well known in the field.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 01:15 PM
So if corporations had not shipped many manufactoring jobs to China would they have agreed to loan our government money to further stimulate their economy? If many of the middle class jobs were still here for American workers would we even have needed a stimulus package? It's not going to stop until the corporations have squeezed every last cent from middle America and there is no more money to buy the stuff made in China.

China is just as interested in america's well being as we are. They are heavily invested in dollars and we support their trade surplus. Why? Because we outsource to cheaper labor. until America embraces the fact that labor trusts have artificially blown up compensation and benefits, we will continue to lose to our competition (other nations.) Global capitalism is a reality. Get used to it. As for Wal-mart, they enter into voluntary contracts with their employees. Last I checked no one was coerced into working there. In addition, the fulfill the needs of the lowest cost provider bracket. That's business and that leads to a vastly more productive society. If you don't like it, spend money elsewhere. But don't expect me to swallow your anti-corporate union-loving bullshit. Wal-mart does what is in their shareholders best interest. Why? Because that is what they are paid to do.

penchief
08-01-2008, 01:20 PM
Businesses based on competition and capitalism will all fear the impact of a social agenda pushed by Pelosi and Obama.

Ooooh, be scared. Be very scared. Fear, fear, fear, fear......

You guys are starting to sound like a broken record. Meanwhile Pelosi and Obama couldn't come close to doing the damage to this country that your icons have already done. Talk about blind sheep parroting ignorance....

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 01:24 PM
Talk about blind sheep parroting ignorance....

ROFL OH THE IRONY.

penchief
08-01-2008, 01:37 PM
ROFL OH THE IRONY.

Oh, the irony.....

I may be ignorant but I'm not parroting anyone.

And I certainly don't think I'm the one supporting the status quo by burying my head in the sand.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 01:57 PM
China is just as interested in america's well being as we are. They are heavily invested in dollars and we support their trade surplus. Why? Because we outsource to cheaper labor. until America embraces the fact that labor trusts have artificially blown up compensation and benefits, we will continue to lose to our competition (other nations.) Global capitalism is a reality. Get used to it. As for Wal-mart, they enter into voluntary contracts with their employees. Last I checked no one was coerced into working there. In addition, the fulfill the needs of the lowest cost provider bracket. That's business and that leads to a vastly more productive society. If you don't like it, spend money elsewhere. But don't expect me to swallow your anti-corporate union-loving bullshit. Wal-mart does what is in their shareholders best interest. Why? Because that is what they are paid to do.

#1 I don't "love" unions, but I do believe workers should be able to negotiate for a living wage and benefits. That too, sir, is a part of a capitalistic society.

#2 If you can maintain "labor trusts have artificially blown up compensation and benefits," then you must agree corporations like Wal Mart artificially destroy compensation by outsourcing work to 2nd and 3rd world countries.

#3 Not only does Wal Mart force their employees to work for poverty wages, they force their competition (which includes private small businesses) to pay poverty wages and/or close shop.

My main point of this entire argument is that Wal Mart, in the name of keeping costs low, causes manufactoring to go to China, which causes people to lose their jobs which oftentimes forces them to work for poverty wages like Wal Mart pays. I have no problem with what you like to call a "Global Economy," but when workers don't have a right to negotiate for better pay the system won't work. Wal mart can't move their stores to China, or I'm sure they would in the name of "sucuring a better profit for their shareholders." If you havn't learned by now, Trickle-down economics doesn't work. Regan was wrong. Just look at the current attempt to stimulate the economy. More money to the lower/middle income Americans. Even the Bush Administration understands an economic stimulus must start from the bottom and work its way up. He just wouldn't admit it until being faced with a recession.

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:02 PM
Wal-Mart doesn't force people to work for poverty wages dumbass.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:10 PM
Wal-Mart doesn't force people to work for poverty wages dumbass.

Tell that to Carlota's mother and the other millions of workers that have been affected by such practices. Keep talking; your proving who the "dumbass" really is.

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:15 PM
Tell that to Carlota's mother and the other millions of workers that have been affected by such practices. Keep talking; your proving who the "dumbass" really is.

Carlota's mother I'm sure is held by gunpoint and forced to remain at her job. While it's unfortunate for people to have this type of thing happen to them, in America 99.999999999% of the time they're free to walk away and find opportunity elsewhere.

Wal-Mart doesn't force anything on anyone.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 02:20 PM
#1 I don't "love" unions, but I do believe workers should be able to negotiate for a living wage and benefits. That too, sir, is a part of a capitalistic society.

#2 If you can maintain "labor trusts have artificially blown up compensation and benefits," then you must agree corporations like Wal Mart artificially destroy compensation by outsourcing work to 2nd and 3rd world countries.

#3 Not only does Wal Mart force their employees to work for poverty wages, they force their competition (which includes private small businesses) to pay poverty wages and/or close shop.

My main point of this entire argument is that Wal Mart, in the name of keeping costs low, causes manufactoring to go to China, which causes people to lose their jobs which oftentimes forces them to work for poverty wages like Wal Mart pays. I have no problem with what you like to call a "Global Economy," but when workers don't have a right to negotiate for better pay the system won't work. Wal mart can't move their stores to China, or I'm sure they would in the name of "sucuring a better profit for their shareholders." If you havn't learned by now, Trickle-down economics doesn't work. Regan was wrong. Just look at the current attempt to stimulate the economy. More money to the lower/middle income Americans. Even the Bush Administration understands an economic stimulus must start from the bottom and work its way up. He just wouldn't admit it until being faced with a recession.

Lets be clear here: Wal-Mart is not a manufacturer. Wal-mart gets the cheapest goods they can because lots of people like to buy cheap goods. As long as people like cheap goods, labor prices will fall until they are aligned with market need. But since the average disposable income will decline, so to will the cost of living. Amazing how the market is a self-compensating system, is it not?

Another point of clarification: What has killed this economy is people living beyond their means. Whether it be in the housing sector or the energy sector. People have been consistently using debt to finance their day to day lives in a manner which was not responsible. The federal government is doing the same thing. Capitalism punishes the irresponsible and rightly so.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:25 PM
Carlota's mother I'm sure is held by gunpoint and forced to remain at her job. While it's unfortunate for people to have this type of thing happen to them, in America 99.999999999% of the time they're free to walk away and find opportunity elsewhere.

Wal-Mart doesn't force anything on anyone.

So let me get this straight. A woman that has worked in the grocery industry for twenty years and made a comfortable living is supposed to....?

What other opportunities are there? Obviously you have never known anyone that has lost their livelyhood due to foriegn polocies and unbalanced trade practices. If you have children, this is something you should honestly look at without your "Regan" beer goggles on. Even college educated people are beginninhg to lose their jobs to India in the name of corporate greed. The exporting of jobs in combination with the explotation of illegal immigrant workers by corporatins is going to leave our children with very little to choose from.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 02:28 PM
So let me get this straight. A woman that has worked in the grocery industry for twenty years and made a comfortable living is supposed to....?

What other opportunities are there? Obviously you have never known anyone that has lost their livelyhood due to foriegn polocies and unbalanced trade practices. If you have children, this is something you should honestly look at without your "Regan" beer goggles on. Even college educated people are beginninhg to lose their jobs to India in the name of corporate greed. The exporting of jobs in combination with the explotation of illegal immigrant workers by corporatins is going to leave our children with very little to choose from.

*cough*globalised labor force*/cough*

Pitt Gorilla
08-01-2008, 02:29 PM
Must...help...Wal-Mart...

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:29 PM
So let me get this straight. A woman that has worked in the grocery industry for twenty years and made a comfortable living is supposed to....?

What other opportunities are there? Obviously you have never known anyone that has lost their livelyhood due to foriegn polocies and unbalanced trade practices. If you have children, this is something you should honestly look at without your "Regan" beer goggles on. Even college educated people are beginninhg to lose their jobs to India in the name of corporate greed. The exporting of jobs in combination with the explotation of illegal immigrant workers by corporatins is going to leave our children with very little to choose from.

If you can't find opportunity in this country you aren't looking. The times I've lost my job, or the time I lost my company (that was a multi-million dollar one at that) I didn't blame someone else, I went out and made a new opportunity for myself. I didn't get pissed at the people who railroaded me, I didn't get upset to be fired a week before Christmas.

If people would look in the mirror, take each experience as a chance to learn and improve, then get off their ass and make something happen they wouldn't be left in this sad "woe is me" state blaming Wal-Mart or an evil corporation for their luck. And they'd find themselves better off every time.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:32 PM
Lets be clear here: Wal-Mart is not a manufacturer. Wal-mart gets the cheapest goods they can because lots of people like to buy cheap goods.

They force manufactorers to lay off or outsource.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

The Wal-Mart You Don't Know
By: Charles Fishman
The giant retailer's low prices often come with a high cost. Wal-Mart's relentless pressure can crush the companies it does business with and force them to send jobs overseas. Are we shopping our way straight to the unemployment line? Recommend This
Print This Article
Email This Article

Send to...My BookmarksDiggDel.icio.usMy YahooGoogleStumble Upon


A gallon-sized jar of whole pickles is something to behold. The jar is the size of a small aquarium. The fat green pickles, floating in swampy juice, look reptilian, their shapes exaggerated by the glass. It weighs 12 pounds, too big to carry with one hand. The gallon jar of pickles is a display of abundance and excess; it is entrancing, and also vaguely unsettling. This is the product that Wal-Mart fell in love with: Vlasic's gallon jar of pickles.

Wal-Mart priced it at $2.97--a year's supply of pickles for less than $3! "They were using it as a 'statement' item," says Pat Hunn, who calls himself the "mad scientist" of Vlasic's gallon jar. "Wal-Mart was putting it before consumers, saying, This represents what Wal-Mart's about. You can buy a stinkin' gallon of pickles for $2.97. And it's the nation's number-one brand."

Therein lies the basic conundrum of doing business with the world's largest retailer. By selling a gallon of kosher dills for less than most grocers sell a quart, Wal-Mart may have provided a ser-vice for its customers. But what did it do for Vlasic? The pickle maker had spent decades convincing customers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now Wal-Mart was practically giving them away. And the fevered buying spree that resulted distorted every aspect of Vlasic's operations, from farm field to factory to financial statement.

Indeed, as Vlasic discovered, the real story of Wal-Mart, the story that never gets told, is the story of the pressure the biggest retailer relentlessly applies to its suppliers in the name of bringing us "every day low prices." It's the story of what that pressure does to the companies Wal-Mart does business with, to U.S. manufacturing, and to the economy as a whole. That story can be found floating in a gallon jar of pickles at Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart is not just the world's largest retailer. It's the world's largest company--bigger than ExxonMobil, General Motors, and General Electric. The scale can be hard to absorb. Wal-Mart sold $244.5 billion worth of goods last year. It sells in three months what

number-two retailer Home Depot sells in a year. And in its own category of general merchandise and groceries, Wal-Mart no longer has any real rivals. It does more business than Target, Sears, Kmart, J.C. Penney, Safeway, and Kroger combined. "Clearly," says Edward Fox, head of Southern Methodist University's J.C. Penney Center for Retailing Excellence, "Wal-Mart is more powerful than any retailer has ever been." It is, in fact, so big and so furtively powerful as to have become an entirely different order of corporate being.

Wal-Mart wields its power for just one purpose: to bring the lowest possible prices to its customers. At Wal-Mart, that goal is never reached. The retailer has a clear policy for suppliers: On basic products that don't change, the price Wal-Mart will pay, and will charge shoppers, must drop year after year. But what almost no one outside the world of Wal-Mart and its 21,000 suppliers knows is the high cost of those low prices. Wal-Mart has the power to squeeze profit-killing concessions from vendors. To survive in the face of its pricing demands, makers of everything from bras to bicycles to blue jeans have had to lay off employees and close U.S. plants in favor of outsourcing products from overseas.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 02:32 PM
Carlota's mother I'm sure is held by gunpoint and forced to remain at her job. While it's unfortunate for people to have this type of thing happen to them, in America 99.999999999% of the time they're free to walk away and find opportunity elsewhere.

Wal-Mart doesn't force anything on anyone.

In a way, yeah, she is.

She has worked for the grocery industry for 20 years. She is working for, what used to be a very good retirement plan and no longer is. But she has no other choice. If she leaves now, she loses everything she has worked for. She is in her late 50's. Hardly a great time to change careers. I have tried to get her to leave and move to Vegas to be closer to me because she barely survives where she is, but she can't. She simply loses too much.

WAL-MART's practices and way of doing business has shown other grocery corporations that they can operate the same way. Therefore, the money, the benefits have gone down the tubes for the industry in the last 10 years or so.

The bottom line is, in this matter, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Wal-Mart and the effect it has had on millions of people in our workforce. I do. I see it, and feel it, firsthand. My own mother has been affected and I see her suffer becasue of it.

She by no means is 99.9999999% free to walk way. Not if she wants to survive anyways. What an ignorant statement.

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:36 PM
In a way, yeah, she is.

She has worked for the grocery industry for 20 years. She is working for, what used to be a very good retirement plan and no longer is. But she has no other choice. If she leaves now, she loses everything she has worked for. She is in her late 50's. Hardly a great time to change careers. I have tried to get her to leave and move to Vegas to be closer to me because she barely survives where she is, but she can't. She simply loses too much.

WAL-MART's practices and way of doing business has shown other grocery corporations that they can operate the same way. Therefore, the money, the benefits have gone down the tubes for the industry in the last 10 years or so.

The bottom line is, in this matter, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Wal-Mart and the effect it has had on millions of people in our workforce. I do. I see it, and feel it, firsthand. My own mother has been affected and I see her suffer becasue of it.

She by no means is 99.9999999% free to walk way. Not if she wants to survive anyways. What an ignorant statement.

I feel bad for your mom, I really do. But she can walk away, she just chooses not to.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 02:36 PM
If you can't find opportunity in this country you aren't looking. The times I've lost my job, or the time I lost my company (that was a multi-million dollar one at that) I didn't blame someone else, I went out and made a new opportunity for myself. I didn't get pissed at the people who railroaded me, I didn't get upset to be fired a week before Christmas.

If people would look in the mirror, take each experience as a chance to learn and improve, then get off their ass and make something happen they wouldn't be left in this sad "woe is me" state blaming Wal-Mart or an evil corporation for their luck. And they'd find themselves better off every time.

Wow--good for you! You must be a real special character.

Are you hiring 58 year old women who are well versed in cash register machines? Do you offer killer benefits, a reasonable wage? 401k? Killer retirement plans? Medical, dental, vision? If so, I'll send my mom your way, cuz God knows no one else ifs offering that to a woman her age with her skills.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 02:37 PM
I feel bad for your mom, I really do. But she can walk away, she just chooses not to.


You are so ****ing clueless. Arrogant and clueless. It borders offensive.

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:38 PM
They force manufactorers to lay off or outsource.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

The Wal-Mart You Don't Know
By: Charles Fishman
The giant retailer's low prices often come with a high cost. Wal-Mart's relentless pressure can crush the companies it does business with and force them to send jobs overseas. Are we shopping our way straight to the unemployment line? Recommend This
Print This Article
Email This Article

Send to...My BookmarksDiggDel.icio.usMy YahooGoogleStumble Upon


A gallon-sized jar of whole pickles is something to behold. The jar is the size of a small aquarium. The fat green pickles, floating in swampy juice, look reptilian, their shapes exaggerated by the glass. It weighs 12 pounds, too big to carry with one hand. The gallon jar of pickles is a display of abundance and excess; it is entrancing, and also vaguely unsettling. This is the product that Wal-Mart fell in love with: Vlasic's gallon jar of pickles.

Wal-Mart priced it at $2.97--a year's supply of pickles for less than $3! "They were using it as a 'statement' item," says Pat Hunn, who calls himself the "mad scientist" of Vlasic's gallon jar. "Wal-Mart was putting it before consumers, saying, This represents what Wal-Mart's about. You can buy a stinkin' gallon of pickles for $2.97. And it's the nation's number-one brand."

Therein lies the basic conundrum of doing business with the world's largest retailer. By selling a gallon of kosher dills for less than most grocers sell a quart, Wal-Mart may have provided a ser-vice for its customers. But what did it do for Vlasic? The pickle maker had spent decades convincing customers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now Wal-Mart was practically giving them away. And the fevered buying spree that resulted distorted every aspect of Vlasic's operations, from farm field to factory to financial statement.

Indeed, as Vlasic discovered, the real story of Wal-Mart, the story that never gets told, is the story of the pressure the biggest retailer relentlessly applies to its suppliers in the name of bringing us "every day low prices." It's the story of what that pressure does to the companies Wal-Mart does business with, to U.S. manufacturing, and to the economy as a whole. That story can be found floating in a gallon jar of pickles at Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart is not just the world's largest retailer. It's the world's largest company--bigger than ExxonMobil, General Motors, and General Electric. The scale can be hard to absorb. Wal-Mart sold $244.5 billion worth of goods last year. It sells in three months what

number-two retailer Home Depot sells in a year. And in its own category of general merchandise and groceries, Wal-Mart no longer has any real rivals. It does more business than Target, Sears, Kmart, J.C. Penney, Safeway, and Kroger combined. "Clearly," says Edward Fox, head of Southern Methodist University's J.C. Penney Center for Retailing Excellence, "Wal-Mart is more powerful than any retailer has ever been." It is, in fact, so big and so furtively powerful as to have become an entirely different order of corporate being.

Wal-Mart wields its power for just one purpose: to bring the lowest possible prices to its customers. At Wal-Mart, that goal is never reached. The retailer has a clear policy for suppliers: On basic products that don't change, the price Wal-Mart will pay, and will charge shoppers, must drop year after year. But what almost no one outside the world of Wal-Mart and its 21,000 suppliers knows is the high cost of those low prices. Wal-Mart has the power to squeeze profit-killing concessions from vendors. To survive in the face of its pricing demands, makers of everything from bras to bicycles to blue jeans have had to lay off employees and close U.S. plants in favor of outsourcing products from overseas.

They force people to do business with them at a loss, and they force parents to eat their own children I get it. There is no choice when it comes to Wal-Mart.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:38 PM
If you can't find opportunity in this country you aren't looking. The times I've lost my job, or the time I lost my company (that was a multi-million dollar one at that) I didn't blame someone else, I went out and made a new opportunity for myself. I didn't get pissed at the people who railroaded me, I didn't get upset to be fired a week before Christmas.

If people would look in the mirror, take each experience as a chance to learn and improve, then get off their ass and make something happen they wouldn't be left in this sad "woe is me" state blaming Wal-Mart or an evil corporation for their luck. And they'd find themselves better off every time.

I listen to Rush Limbaugh too. It would be a good argument for you and me, but not that great of an argument for an older person that can't afford to lose their health insurance.

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:39 PM
You are so ****ing clueless. Arrogant and clueless. It borders offensive.

I'm not arrogant, you can't read my emotions here. My parents are in the same boat your mom is. It stinks, but there's a big difference between being forced to do something and choosing to do it.

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:39 PM
I listen to Rush Limbaugh too. It would be a good argument for you and me, but not that great of an argument for an older person that can't afford to lose their health insurance.

Huh?

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 02:40 PM
I'm not arrogant, you can't read my emotions here. My parents are in the same boat your mom is. It stinks, but there's a big difference between being forced to do something and choosing to do it.

Choosing to survive? Wher do you suggest someone like OUR parents go? Starbucks? Serious question.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 02:43 PM
Huh?

You dont understand the post? Someone OUR parents age can not afford to lose health Insurance, no matter how bad it is. What part of that dont you understand?

Or are your parents Super beings and not in need of health insurance at an older age?

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 02:44 PM
Just to throw a wrench into everyone heres gears: I worked at Wal-Mart. Best job I ever had. Everyday I got to see a dozen or so people I knew. I worked outside, got a nice tan, and stayed in shape.

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:45 PM
Choosing to survive? Wher do you suggest someone like OUR parents go? Starbucks? Serious question.

My mom works in a eye doctors office for something like $10 an hour. She can't afford her rent, and gets further behind every single month. She hates her job, hates the people she works with, and hates living so broke. Each month I point out new place to work, new ideas to run with, new companies that are hiring for her skill set. I point out entrepreneurial things she could do, I try to teach her different ways she could increase her income just a little bit. But all I get back are reasons why she can't. Or reasons she doesn't want to.

She could leave at any point and make far more than she does now. There are thousands of jobs that she could do that would pay more, and require less of her. But she chooses to stay where she's at and be miserable, all the while thinking there's nothing out there for her.

It's why I said in my first post that anyone that doesn't see opportunity isn't looking. It's the greatest thing about this country, there is opportunity everywhere. The sad thing is that most people, like many of our parents, choose not to look for it. And since they never look, they never find it.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:45 PM
Choosing to survive? Wher do you suggest someone like OUR parents go? Starbucks? Serious question.

I don't know if your mom has health problems, but that is also something to consider when older people look for work. Sometimes companies won't hire them at full time which gives insurance benefits.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:46 PM
Just to throw a wrench into everyone heres gears: I worked at Wal-Mart. Best job I ever had. Everyday I got to see a dozen or so people I knew. I worked outside, got a nice tan, and stayed in shape.

Then why did you quit? Or did they fire you?

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:47 PM
You dont understand the post? Someone OUR parents age can not afford to lose health Insurance, no matter how bad it is. What part of that dont you understand?

Or are your parents Super beings and not in need of health insurance at an older age?

I didn't understand what Rush Limbaugh and all the other stuff had to do with.

When I was a kid we didn't have health insurance, so we had to go to the free clinic. Honestly it was some of the best care I've ever received. Even though it was in the ghetto we got great doctors, free medicine and never, ever had to wait.

From my experience with that I tend to think that being miserable over health insurance isn't a wise choice.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 02:47 PM
Then why did you quit? Or did they fire you?

Well, I realized I needed a real skill set, so I went to college and got a degree. Fancy that.

SBK
08-01-2008, 02:48 PM
Then why did you quit? Or did they fire you?

No they forced him to sodomize the stuffed animals in the toy department without any lube. He had to do it so many times his skin went raw, and when he started to slow down they forced him into early retirement with no benefits.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:50 PM
Well, I realized I needed a real skill set, so I went to college and got a degree. Fancy that.

I'm sorry you lost your opportunity to continue your career with such an outstanding corporation that cares so deeply for their employees. I hope you gave two weeks notice, that way when your current employer decides to ship your job to India, you'll have a GREAT job waiting for you.

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:51 PM
No they forced him to sodomize the stuffed animals in the toy department without any lube. He had to do it so many times his skin went raw, and when he started to slow down they forced him into early retirement with no benefits.

ROFL

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 02:53 PM
I'm sorry you lost your opportunity to continue your career with such an outstanding corporation that cares so deeply for their employees. I hope you gave two weeks notice, that way when your current employer decides to ship your job to India, you'll have a GREAT job waiting for you.

Ironically, my degree is in accounting and a lot of accounting jobs are being outsourced to india. However, being as I actually live within my means ( I lived on 15k a year WHILE paying tuition) I think I can remain competitive price wise. That and the job security at the state is fantastic isn't it? It may not be glorious, but it will more than pay the bills.

bsp4444
08-01-2008, 02:54 PM
Lets be clear here: Wal-Mart is not a manufacturer. Wal-mart gets the cheapest goods they can because lots of people like to buy cheap goods. As long as people like cheap goods, labor prices will fall until they are aligned with market need. But since the average disposable income will decline, so to will the cost of living. Amazing how the market is a self-compensating system, is it not?

Another point of clarification: What has killed this economy is people living beyond their means. Whether it be in the housing sector or the energy sector. People have been consistently using debt to finance their day to day lives in a manner which was not responsible. The federal government is doing the same thing. Capitalism punishes the irresponsible and rightly so.

Please tell me when I can expect the cost of living to go down. Food prices are rising every day. Gas, electricity, heating fuel, man I just saw a cord of wood for sale for $250 (it was $135 last year)

Flustrated
08-01-2008, 02:55 PM
All this talk of work reminds me I have to go to work now :(

It's been fun owning U both hehe.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 02:55 PM
Please tell me when I can expect the cost of living to go down. Food prices are rising every day. Gas, electricity, heating fuel, man I just saw a cord of wood for sale for $250 (it was $135 last year)

Probably about when the Fed stops printing money.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 02:57 PM
My mom works in a eye doctors office for something like $10 an hour. She can't afford her rent, and gets further behind every single month. She hates her job, hates the people she works with, and hates living so broke. Each month I point out new place to work, new ideas to run with, new companies that are hiring for her skill set. I point out entrepreneurial things she could do, I try to teach her different ways she could increase her income just a little bit. But all I get back are reasons why she can't. Or reasons she doesn't want to.

She could leave at any point and make far more than she does now. There are thousands of jobs that she could do that would pay more, and require less of her. But she chooses to stay where she's at and be miserable, all the while thinking there's nothing out there for her.

It's why I said in my first post that anyone that doesn't see opportunity isn't looking. It's the greatest thing about this country, there is opportunity everywhere. The sad thing is that most people, like many of our parents, choose not to look for it. And since they never look, they never find it.

OK, your point about your mom is fair. But you are incredibly wrong about mine. here's why:

My mom has been building a retirement plan thru her union for over 20 years. She has to work so many years to get X amount of dollars. I think its 25/65 or something like that. someplan that combines their age and years of service. Under one plan, that she is 6 years away from, she gets 24k a year and medical benefits. Under the other, she gets 30k and med benies. She cant just walk away from that. That would be like you deciding to dump your 401k in the toilet at age 58 and start over. Not gonna happen.

The industry she is in was a good one when she started, it really was. A decent way to make an ok living and get good benies. But it no longer is and that is becaaue of Wal-Marts practices. That is fact. Not only do I know this becasue of my mom's situation but I also had many conversations with a top level manager at a grocery company a few years back. We chatted about this becasue at the time, grocery stores were on strike in California.

You just flat out dont get the situation at all. Maybe you do now, I dont know. But i do know that maybe you or I, maybe your mom can make an exit without losing everything. People in my mom's situation, cannot.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 02:59 PM
I don't know if your mom has health problems, but that is also something to consider when older people look for work. Sometimes companies won't hire them at full time which gives insurance benefits.


They barely hire older people for whatever reason. SBK is living in a dream world.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 03:02 PM
OK, your point about your mom is fair. But you are incredibly wrong about mine. here's why:

My mom has been building a retirement plan thru her union for over 20 years. She has to work so many years to get X amount of dollars. I think its 25/65 or something like that. someplan that combines their age and years of service. Under one plan, that she is 6 years away from, she gets 24k a year and medical benefits. Under the other, she gets 30k and med benies. She cant just walk away from that. That would be like you deciding to dump your 401k in the toilet at age 58 and start over. Not gonna happen.

The industry she is in was a good one when she started, it really was. A decent way to make an ok living and get good benies. But it no longer is and that is becaaue of Wal-Marts practices. That is fact. Not only do I know this becasue of my mom's situation but I also had many conversations with a top level manager at a grocery company a few years back. We chatted about this becasue at the time, grocery stores were on strike in California.

You just flat out dont get the situation at all. Maybe you do now, I dont know. But i do know that maybe you or I, maybe your mom can make an exit without losing everything. People in my mom's situation, cannot.

It is my unwise and youthful opinion that people will fall through the cracks of any system. It is our job as good citizens to help them get back to their feet in the best way we know how. ironically, giving is quintessential to capitalism. But giving in the way we choose rather than one arbitrarily set by politicians is far and away the best approach, imo.

bsp4444
08-01-2008, 03:08 PM
They force people to do business with them at a loss, and they force parents to eat their own children I get it. There is no choice when it comes to Wal-Mart.

I work for a manufacturing company and we refuse to do business with Wal-Mart on the basis that they get you set up as a supplier and then start making demands until you [I]are[I] operating at a loss.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 03:10 PM
I work for a manufacturing company and we refuse to do business with Wal-Mart on the basis that they get you set up as a supplier and then start making demands until you [I]are[I] operating at a loss.

This is a very appropriate response, imo.

SBK
08-01-2008, 03:15 PM
I work for a manufacturing company and we refuse to do business with Wal-Mart on the basis that they get you set up as a supplier and then start making demands until you [i]are[i] operating at a loss.

This goes along with what I've been saying about choice. People work at Wal-Mart by choice, they get an offer of what Wal-Mart thinks their time is worth and they accept.

Same goes for your company, and your company chooses to do business elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that at all.

SBK
08-01-2008, 03:17 PM
OK, your point about your mom is fair. But you are incredibly wrong about mine. here's why:

My mom has been building a retirement plan thru her union for over 20 years. She has to work so many years to get X amount of dollars. I think its 25/65 or something like that. someplan that combines their age and years of service. Under one plan, that she is 6 years away from, she gets 24k a year and medical benefits. Under the other, she gets 30k and med benies. She cant just walk away from that. That would be like you deciding to dump your 401k in the toilet at age 58 and start over. Not gonna happen.

The industry she is in was a good one when she started, it really was. A decent way to make an ok living and get good benies. But it no longer is and that is becaaue of Wal-Marts practices. That is fact. Not only do I know this becasue of my mom's situation but I also had many conversations with a top level manager at a grocery company a few years back. We chatted about this becasue at the time, grocery stores were on strike in California.

You just flat out dont get the situation at all. Maybe you do now, I dont know. But i do know that maybe you or I, maybe your mom can make an exit without losing everything. People in my mom's situation, cannot.

My problem is I'm not employee minded, I'm an entrepreneur. The idea of living the way you describe your mom as living under the hope that I'll get an extra $6k a year down the road doesn't compute.

The saddest thing in this whole story is that there's no guarantee that her pension will be there.

Our parents got caught between the industrial age and the information age. What worked for their parents doesn't work for them, but the vast majority of them thought it would, and are banking on the idea that it will.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 03:18 PM
It is my unwise and youthful opinion that people will fall through the cracks of any system. It is our job as good citizens to help them get back to their feet in the best way we know how. ironically, giving is quintessential to capitalism. But giving in the way we choose rather than one arbitrarily set by politicians is far and away the best approach, imo.

I have no idea how tat pertains to my moms situation. Politics has nothing to do with it (directly anyways). Survival is the name of the game, especially at her age.

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 03:23 PM
My problem is I'm not employee minded, I'm an entrepreneur. The idea of living the way you describe your mom as living under the hope that I'll get an extra $6k a year down the road doesn't compute.

The saddest thing in this whole story is that there's no guarantee that her pension will be there.

Our parents got caught between the industrial age and the information age. What worked for their parents doesn't work for them, but the vast majority of them thought it would, and are banking on the idea that it will.

Well at least you admit that you don't get it from an employees mind set. I can respect that. But, understand, there are people who are much less fortunate than you or I. And they dont have choices, not like us. A 25 year old? Sure. A 4o year old? Yeah, ok, but there may be a price to pay. A 60 year old? Not unless they are well off or have children that are and can take care of them. People like my mom, can't walk away from what they have been working towards, no matter how measley and small it is to you. And it wouldnt be so bad, but because of the Wal-Martization of her industry, the future isnt as bright as it once was.

Cave Johnson
08-01-2008, 03:24 PM
My first thought when reading this thread was, "when did Jaz become such a dick?".

vailpass
08-01-2008, 03:43 PM
My mom has worked in the grocery industry for 20 years. In the past, she had good medical benefits, made a fair wage and overall had a decent job. Since what she calls the Wal-Martization of the industry, she no longer has great medical benefits, her overall income, due to loss of hours and increase in paying for lower medical benefits, has gone down considerably. She has begged me not to shop at Wal-Mart becasue of the way they have changed the industry. The workforce is not better off with Wal-Mart around. Sure prices are cheaper, but at what cost? I see it first hand with her, and it sucks. She is in her late 50's now. She can't just change careers. Plus, when she really needs her medical benefits to be what they use to be, they are horrendous, and she pays more now.

I shop Target.


I hate to hear that, I really do. A while ago NewPhin posted a couple of very good articles regarding the impact of WalMart, wish I could find them.

Of course to me Target is not a good altervative. I like their stores but hate the French. :)

Carlota69
08-01-2008, 03:51 PM
I hate to hear that, I really do. A while ago NewPhin posted a couple of very good articles regarding the impact of WalMart, wish I could find them.

Of course to me Target is not a good altervative. I like their stores but hate the French. :)
;)

RJ
08-01-2008, 04:02 PM
My problem is I'm not employee minded, I'm an entrepreneur. The idea of living the way you describe your mom as living under the hope that I'll get an extra $6k a year down the road doesn't compute.

The saddest thing in this whole story is that there's no guarantee that her pension will be there.

Our parents got caught between the industrial age and the information age. What worked for their parents doesn't work for them, but the vast majority of them thought it would, and are banking on the idea that it will.




SBK, if you are an entrepeneur do you have or do you ever hope to have employees? If the answer is yes then you might want to become a little more "employee minded". I doubt there are very many people at or near retirement age who wouldn't agree that adding or subtracting 6K a year would make a difference in their lives.

Things like health care and retirement benefits grow more important to people with each passing year. It's so very easy to say the Carlota's mom (or your mom) should just go out and get a new job, find a new opportunity. But women their age are generally not looking for opportunities. They're looking for some comfort and security. They're not trying to become wealthy, they just don't want to have to worry every day.

I think for most of us the tolerance for risk and change decreases with age.

Jawshco
08-01-2008, 04:14 PM
In a way, yeah, she is.

She has worked for the grocery industry for 20 years. She is working for, what used to be a very good retirement plan and no longer is. But she has no other choice. If she leaves now, she loses everything she has worked for. She is in her late 50's. Hardly a great time to change careers. I have tried to get her to leave and move to Vegas to be closer to me because she barely survives where she is, but she can't. She simply loses too much.

WAL-MART's practices and way of doing business has shown other grocery corporations that they can operate the same way. Therefore, the money, the benefits have gone down the tubes for the industry in the last 10 years or so.

The bottom line is, in this matter, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Wal-Mart and the effect it has had on millions of people in our workforce. I do. I see it, and feel it, firsthand. My own mother has been affected and I see her suffer becasue of it.

She by no means is 99.9999999% free to walk way. Not if she wants to survive anyways. What an ignorant statement.


Sorry to hear about your mom Carlotta! My mom is actually in a very similar situation. Luckily, my family has our "economic eggs" is several different baskets, and we'll find a way to make it work, but for now she's in that "working poor" category that many Americans find themselves in.

I'm not in that industry, but the economy being what it is, I still can't afford Health coverage for myself. Health Care is just too expensive everywhere, (unless you work for the government, I suppose) and with the Social Security falling under as a pyramid scheme- retirement pensions are a must.

Odd fact: did you know that 'W' wasn't the first to propose individual health coverage plans? It actually was proposed by Bill Clinton first, but it didn't go anywhere. Sorry, off Subject, LOL!

BTW Carlota- Are you a DJ here in Fresno? Your pic looks similar to a DJ, named Carlota here in Frenso on my new favorite station! If that's you, you rock! :thumb:

penchief
08-01-2008, 04:28 PM
Well, I realized I needed a real skill set, so I went to college and got a degree. Fancy that.

How much debt did you go into? Did you pay your own way or did family pay for you? Did you get any grants?

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 04:30 PM
How much debt did you go into? Did you pay your own way or did family pay for you? Did you get any grants?

Scholarship, 10k in student loans, and working throughout.

penchief
08-01-2008, 04:34 PM
Scholarship, 10k in student loans, and working throughout.

Good for you. College is an expensive endeavor. And not everybody is fortunate enough to be able to afford it. You must have had some big scholarships. Because 10k won't get you two semesters in a state school anymore.

I worked full-time and went to school full-time and let me tell you, not only was it demanding but it was expensive even with a my GI Bill. Sounds like you got off pretty cheap.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 04:35 PM
Good for you. College is an expensive endeavor. And not everybody is fortunate enough to be able to afford it. You must have had some big scholarships. Because 10k won't get you two semesters in a state school anymore.

I worked full-time and went to school full-time and let me tell you, not only was it demanding but it was expensive even with a my GI Bill. Sounds like you got off pretty cheap.

Montana State is cheap for in-staters. That and I had a big scholarship.

penchief
08-01-2008, 04:37 PM
Montana State is cheap for in-staters. That and I had a big scholarship.

Athletic or academic?

Baby Lee
08-01-2008, 04:45 PM
Good for you. College is an expensive endeavor. And not everybody is fortunate enough to be able to afford it. You must have had some big scholarships. Because 10k won't get you two semesters in a state school anymore.

I worked full-time and went to school full-time and let me tell you, not only was it demanding but it was expensive even with a my GI Bill. Sounds like you got off pretty cheap.

235 a credit hour here. 3,500 a semester. 50 more a credit hour when I start getting engineering instruction at $40K a year Wash-U under the joint degree program.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-01-2008, 04:46 PM
A corporation's sole raison de etre is to make as much money for the shareholders as absolutely possible. One of the greatest expenses any company has is payroll and benefits. The corporations and workers are antipodal in their existence. Currently, corporations in this country hold nearly all the power due to the pro-corp attitude of both society and the laws on the books. Because of that, the workers can't simply go from one job to another as though they are playing hopscotch. Furthermore, since "get a degree" has been the solution to everything for the last twenty years, it has acted to devalue the worth of a college degree. Educational inflation makes the BA you got twenty years ago worth significantly more than the one Joe Ordinary got three years ago.

But make no mistake about it, if Wal Mart could get away with paying their employees a dollar an hour they'd do it. As would any corporation. They aren't some white knight to be held up as a standard for helping the working man with their low costs. Everytime someone shops there they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Jenson71
08-01-2008, 05:02 PM
If a Wal-Mart employee mentions once the word "union" they get a supervisor on their back for a week.

BigChiefFan
08-01-2008, 05:12 PM
China-mart is what they should rename it.

Nightfyre
08-01-2008, 05:30 PM
Athletic or academic?

academic

penchief
08-01-2008, 05:34 PM
China-mart is what they should rename it.

Yep.

I remember living in Oklahoma when they first started out. Old Sam Walton's motto was that everything in his store was "Made in America." Boy, how times have changed.

Wal-mart has a history of this kind of stuff. I think I can remember something a while back where they weren't paying overtime. Then there was the thing where they were discriminating against women.

I think I read somewhere that Wal-Mart employees are the single largest block of workers that have to rely on medicaid. That's a pretty good gig when you can keep wages down to the point where the government has to subsidize your workforce.

penchief
08-01-2008, 05:39 PM
academic

Well, I can't fault you for that. You've obviously earned it. But I think it's a little shortsighted to assume that anyone who wants to do better for themself is capable of affording college. Not everyone is an academic achiever like you were. And even if they were, there are only so many scholarships to go around.

Assuming everbody was able to afford college, the way jobs are being devalued a college degree isn't a guarantee to a good paying job anymore. And it's only going to get worse if we keep heading in the direction we're heading.

Just saying.

SBK
08-01-2008, 07:54 PM
SBK, if you are an entrepeneur do you have or do you ever hope to have employees? If the answer is yes then you might want to become a little more "employee minded". I doubt there are very many people at or near retirement age who wouldn't agree that adding or subtracting 6K a year would make a difference in their lives.

Things like health care and retirement benefits grow more important to people with each passing year. It's so very easy to say the Carlota's mom (or your mom) should just go out and get a new job, find a new opportunity. But women their age are generally not looking for opportunities. They're looking for some comfort and security. They're not trying to become wealthy, they just don't want to have to worry every day.

I think for most of us the tolerance for risk and change decreases with age.

I do want employees, but I want to be a springboard for the to further success. I want my employees to know that you have 2 choices, 2 doors in which you can enter for your financial future. You can pick freedom, or you can pick security, should you choose security you get neither. I want to teach them how to grow, learn, advance and I want them to look back on their time with me as the time that changed their future forever. I want to be that kind of leader.

Too many companies have used pensions, health insurance and other "wayyyy too expensive items to ever afford" as a tool to keep people at jobs far below what they should be paid. People willingly stay attached to a job they hate, at a wage that sucks, simply because they believe that they truly could never afford their own insurance, or that the pension they'll receive will both still be there and be at a livable wage. Have people ever thought to themselves what $3,000 a month pre-tax is going to be for a livable wage in 20 years? Far below poverty! Have they ever looked into free health care in case of emergency (yes, we have it and I've used it, and it was great), have they actually ever even looked at the true cost of insurance? Of course not, companies know they won't and know they can hold these things over their head to keep them in line. They can pay them less under the threat of losing these "perks."

Employers should empower their employees. They should pay them well, and should provide an avenue for them to advance. There are companies that do this, Wells Fargo comes to mind. However, most do not.

I'm actually working on a project right now with a friend of mine entirely designed to teach people how to market themselves. How to have job security not in a paycheck, or a jerk of a boss, but security in knowing they can tell that jerk to stick it and get work elsewhere in a very, very short time. Security in knowing there is opportunity elsewhere, and that they have a system that will replace their old job quickly. Personal job security that's found in knowledge, not in a rotten company. That's job security today, it's not what it used to be, it's far better.

People are not pawns, they are not something you should push down with your thumb and enslave to yourself. They should be built up, treated properly, and given every opportunity to push toward, then achieve their dreams.

I've worked places where they rule with an iron fist, and do everything to make you fear and obey. They fired me a week before Christmas as an example to the other people working there. It's no way to treat your employees, and all it does in the end is create people who don't work as hard as they could, and don't let the company ever become what it could be because of that.

When that happened to me I vowed I'd never treat people that way, and so far I have not. I'm hoping I can set an example, and teach people that they should have enough respect for themselves to tell the dirtbags of the business world to stick it. :#

(end rant)

All that said, people are the one's who agree to these terms, they agree to trade their time for poverty level pay, and they agree to let others rule over them.

I've had enough, and I want to be someone that helps to change all of that.

Carlota69
08-04-2008, 01:05 PM
Sorry to hear about your mom Carlotta! My mom is actually in a very similar situation. Luckily, my family has our "economic eggs" is several different baskets, and we'll find a way to make it work, but for now she's in that "working poor" category that many Americans find themselves in.

I'm not in that industry, but the economy being what it is, I still can't afford Health coverage for myself. Health Care is just too expensive everywhere, (unless you work for the government, I suppose) and with the Social Security falling under as a pyramid scheme- retirement pensions are a must.

Odd fact: did you know that 'W' wasn't the first to propose individual health coverage plans? It actually was proposed by Bill Clinton first, but it didn't go anywhere. Sorry, off Subject, LOL!

BTW Carlota- Are you a DJ here in Fresno? Your pic looks similar to a DJ, named Carlota here in Frenso on my new favorite station! If that's you, you rock! :thumb:

Thanks darlin'...It is difficult to watch your parents be apart of the working poor.

And yes, it is me. I'm on the air in 2 cities, Fresno (The Blaze) and Las Vegas (KOMP 92.3). Its a fun gig for sure.
Thanks for the love!:D

Carlota69
08-04-2008, 01:08 PM
I do want employees, but I want to be a springboard for the to further success. I want my employees to know that you have 2 choices, 2 doors in which you can enter for your financial future. You can pick freedom, or you can pick security, should you choose security you get neither. I want to teach them how to grow, learn, advance and I want them to look back on their time with me as the time that changed their future forever. I want to be that kind of leader.

Too many companies have used pensions, health insurance and other "wayyyy too expensive items to ever afford" as a tool to keep people at jobs far below what they should be paid. People willingly stay attached to a job they hate, at a wage that sucks, simply because they believe that they truly could never afford their own insurance, or that the pension they'll receive will both still be there and be at a livable wage. Have people ever thought to themselves what $3,000 a month pre-tax is going to be for a livable wage in 20 years? Far below poverty! Have they ever looked into free health care in case of emergency (yes, we have it and I've used it, and it was great), have they actually ever even looked at the true cost of insurance? Of course not, companies know they won't and know they can hold these things over their head to keep them in line. They can pay them less under the threat of losing these "perks."

Employers should empower their employees. They should pay them well, and should provide an avenue for them to advance. There are companies that do this, Wells Fargo comes to mind. However, most do not.

I'm actually working on a project right now with a friend of mine entirely designed to teach people how to market themselves. How to have job security not in a paycheck, or a jerk of a boss, but security in knowing they can tell that jerk to stick it and get work elsewhere in a very, very short time. Security in knowing there is opportunity elsewhere, and that they have a system that will replace their old job quickly. Personal job security that's found in knowledge, not in a rotten company. That's job security today, it's not what it used to be, it's far better.

People are not pawns, they are not something you should push down with your thumb and enslave to yourself. They should be built up, treated properly, and given every opportunity to push toward, then achieve their dreams.

I've worked places where they rule with an iron fist, and do everything to make you fear and obey. They fired me a week before Christmas as an example to the other people working there. It's no way to treat your employees, and all it does in the end is create people who don't work as hard as they could, and don't let the company ever become what it could be because of that.

When that happened to me I vowed I'd never treat people that way, and so far I have not. I'm hoping I can set an example, and teach people that they should have enough respect for themselves to tell the dirtbags of the business world to stick it. :#

(end rant)

All that said, people are the one's who agree to these terms, they agree to trade their time for poverty level pay, and they agree to let others rule over them.

I've had enough, and I want to be someone that helps to change all of that.

I like the tings you're saying and hope that you can do those things for the people that work for you. Hell, we should talk. I might be of interest to you and your "helping people market themselves"..Just sayin....:)