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View Full Version : U.S. Issues Tire gauge solution- no joke


chiefforlife
08-04-2008, 11:05 PM
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1829354,00.html?cnn=yes

Since this seems to be so funny to some of you, I thought I would post the truth.
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How out of touch is Barack Obama? He's so out of touch that he suggested that if all Americans inflated their tires properly and took their cars for regular tune-ups, they could save as much oil as new offshore drilling would produce. Gleeful Republicans have made this their daily talking point; Rush Limbaugh is having a field day; and the Republican National Committee is sending tire gauges labeled "Barack Obama's Energy Plan" to Washington reporters.


But who's really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

The real problem with the attacks on his tire-gauge plan is that efforts to improve conservation and efficiency happen to be the best approaches to dealing with the energy crisis — the cheapest, cleanest, quickest and easiest ways to ease our addiction to oil, reduce our pain at the pump and address global warming.

HolmeZz
08-04-2008, 11:11 PM
I don't know why anyone is surprised the argument went right over people's heads.

chiefforlife
08-04-2008, 11:18 PM
Its just ridiculous that Obama is being hammered on for advocating the better of two ideas. Cheaper, instant and the results are much larger.

jAZ
08-04-2008, 11:22 PM
http://www.funnyandjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/mcbush-mccain-bush.jpg

Programmer
08-04-2008, 11:23 PM
Honestly, how many people that value their investment do not keep their car tuned up?

I get a tune up once a year and check the air in my tires weekly.

I've gotten 32 MPG for the past 6 years give or take a mile or two.

Ultra Peanut
08-04-2008, 11:28 PM
Rush Limbaugh is having a field day; and the Republican National Committee is sending tire gauges labeled "Barack Obama's Energy Plan" to Washington reporters.Thaaaat explains why SBK and others have latched onto such a retarded talking point.

Ultra Peanut
08-04-2008, 11:29 PM
Also, let me fix this for you:

How out of touch is Barack Obama? He's so out of touch that he suggested that if all Americans inflated their tires properly and took their cars for regular tune-ups, they could save as much oil as new offshore drilling would produce. Gleeful Republicans have made this their daily talking point; Rush Limbaugh is having a field day; and the Republican National Committee is sending tire gauges labeled "Barack Obama's Energy Plan" to Washington reporters.


But who's really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words:

<center><blink>OBAMA IS RIGHT!</blink></center>

The real problem with the attacks on his tire-gauge plan is that efforts to improve conservation and efficiency happen to be the best approaches to dealing with the energy crisis — the cheapest, cleanest, quickest and easiest ways to ease our addiction to oil, reduce our pain at the pump and address global warming.

jAZ
08-04-2008, 11:38 PM
Thaaaat explains why SBK and others have latched onto such a retarded talking point.

It's intersting how tightly this forum coorelates to Rush and Hannity's talkingpoints.

SBK
08-04-2008, 11:41 PM
Thaaaat explains why SBK and others have latched onto such a retarded talking point.

I know that lefties think righties are evil and all, but can any of you read this thread and not see why we think you're so dumb?

Will inflating your tires properly give you better gas mileage, possibly. Is it a good energy policy? LMAO

Good Lord you people are freaking hilarious, I honestly can't get enough. LMAO

jAZ
08-04-2008, 11:42 PM
I know that lefties think righties are evil and all, but can any of you read this thread and not see why we think you're so dumb?

Will inflating your tires properly give you better gas mileage, possibly. Is it a good energy policy? LMAO

Good Lord you people are freaking hilarious, I honestly can't get enough. LMAO

It's not "(an) energy policy".

Reaper16
08-04-2008, 11:42 PM
It's intersting how tightly this forum coorelates to Rush and Hannity's talkingpoints.
If by "interesting" you mean "boring and predictable."

SBK
08-04-2008, 11:42 PM
It's intersting how tightly this forum coorelates to Rush and Hannity's talkingpoints.

This coming from Mr. Freethinker himself. LMAO

jAZ
08-04-2008, 11:45 PM
This is an energy policy...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

Barack Obama’s Plan

Reduce the Burden of Rising Gas Prices on Working Families

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Barack Obama has called on the President to enact a second round of economic stimulus to immediately put tax rebates in the pockets of American families to pay for rising energy prices. As president, Obama will enact a tax fairness agenda that provides 150 million workers a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of $500 per person or $1,000 per working family.
Crack Down on Excessive Energy Speculation

Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.Enact a Windfall Profits Tax on the Top Grossing Oil Companies and Ease the Burden on American Families: The oil industry has profited greatly—over $150 billion in 2007—due to global instability fueled by conflict in Iraq, failing domestic fiscal policies that have weakened the U.S. dollar and skyrocketing global demand resulting from a lack of investment in alternatives. Barack Obama supports imposing a windfall profits penalty on oil selling at or over $80 per barrel. Revenue from the proposal will be invested in a number of measures to reduce the burden of rising prices on families.
Require Oil Companies to Use Existing Drilling Leases: The 68 million acres of stockpiled leases have the potential to produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil each day. This would nearly double total U.S. oil production. The Obama plan would force oil and gas companies to either produce or pay a fee on unused federal onshore and offshore leases they are stockpiling.
End Oil and Gas Industry Tax Breaks: Obama has called for repealing the oil and gas industry tax breaks that President Bush himself has said himself are unnecessary given today’s strong market incentive for expanding exploration and production.
Cooperate with Oil Importing Nations to Reduce Demand: As new large oil importing nations come on the market, the United States is at the mercy of an ever more volatile oil market. Obama believes we should use existing organizations, like NATO, to make energy security a shared global goal. We should take steps to engage the largest new consumers, China and India, including by inviting them to join the International Energy Agency.
Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050


Cap and Trade: Obama supports implementation of a market-based cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions by the amount scientists say is necessary: 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050. Obama's cap-and-trade system will require all pollution credits to be auctioned. A 100 percent auction ensures that all polluters pay for every ton of emissions they release, rather than giving these emission rights away to coal and oil companies. Some of the revenue generated by auctioning allowances will be used to support the development of clean energy, to invest in energy efficiency improvements, and to address transition costs, including helping American workers affected by this economic transition.
Confront Deforestation and Promote Carbon Sequestration: Obama will develop domestic incentives that reward forest owners, farmers, and ranchers when they plant trees, restore grasslands, or undertake farming practices that capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.Invest in a Clean Energy Future


Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy: Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants, and begin the transition to a new digital electricity grid. A principal focus of this fund will be devoted to ensuring that technologies that are developed in the U.S. are rapidly commercialized in the U.S. and deployed around the globe.
Double Energy Research and Development Funding: Obama will double science and research funding for clean energy projects including those that make use of our biomass, solar and wind resources.
Invest in a Skilled Clean Technologies Workforce: Obama will use proceeds from the cap-and-trade auction program to invest in job training and transition programs to help workers and industries adapt to clean technology development and production. Obama will also create an energy-focused Green Jobs Corps to connect disconnected and disadvantaged youth with job skills for a high-growth industry.
Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders: Obama will establish a federal investment program to help manufacturing centers modernize and Americans learn the new skills they need to produce green products.
Clean Technologies Deployment Venture Capital Fund: Obama will create a Clean Technologies Venture Capital Fund to fill a critical gap in U.S. technology development. Obama will invest $10 billion per year into this fund for five years. The fund will partner with existing investment funds and our National Laboratories to ensure that promising technologies move beyond the lab and are commercialized in the U.S
Require 25 Percent of Renewable Electricity by 2025: Obama will establish a 25 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 25 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2025.
Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology: Obama will significantly increase the resources devoted to the commercialization and deployment of low-carbon coal technologies. Obama will consider whatever policy tools are necessary, including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities, to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology.Support Next Generation Biofuels


Deploy Cellulosic Ethanol: Obama will invest federal resources, including tax incentives, cash prizes and government contracts into developing the most promising technologies with the goal of getting the first two billion gallons of cellulosic ethanol into the system by 2013.
Expand Locally-Owned Biofuel Refineries: Less than 10 percent of new ethanol production today is from farmer-owned refineries. New ethanol refineries help jumpstart rural economies. Obama will create a number of incentives for local communities to invest in their biofuels refineries.
Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard: Barack Obama will establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard to speed the introduction of low-carbon non-petroleum fuels. The standard requires fuels suppliers to reduce the carbon their fuel emits by ten percent by 2020.
Increase Renewable Fuel Standard: Obama will require 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels to be included in the fuel supply by 2022 and will increase that to at least 60 billion gallons of advanced biofuels like cellulosic ethanol by 2030.Set America on Path to Oil Independence

Obama's plan will reduce oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or 10 million barrels per day, by 2030. This will more than offset the equivalent of the oil we would import from OPEC nations in 2030.

Increase Fuel Economy Standards: Obama will double fuel economy standards within 18 years. His plan will provide retooling tax credits and loan guarantees for domestic auto plants and parts manufacturers, so that they can build new fuel-efficient cars rather than overseas companies. Obama will also invest in advanced vehicle technology such as advanced lightweight materials and new engines.Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030


Set National Building Efficiency Goals: Barack Obama will establish a goal of making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030. He'll also establish a national goal of improving new building efficiency by 50 percent and existing building efficiency by 25 percent over the next decade to help us meet the 2030 goal.
Establish a Grant Program for Early Adopters: Obama will create a competitive grant program to award those states and localities that take the first steps to implement new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.
Invest in a Digital Smart Grid: Obama will pursue a major investment in our utility grid to enable a tremendous increase in renewable generation and accommodate modern energy requirements, such as reliability, smart metering, and distributed storageRestore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change


Create New Forum of Largest Greenhouse Gas Emitters: Obama will create a Global Energy Forum — that includes all G-8 members plus Brazil, China, India, Mexico and South Africa –the largest energy consuming nations from both the developed and developing world. The forum would focus exclusively on global energy and environmental issues.
Re-Engage with the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change: The UNFCCC process is the main international forum dedicated to addressing the climate problem and an Obama administration will work constructively within it.

SBK
08-04-2008, 11:45 PM
It's not "(an) energy policy".

We don't need to drill for oil, we can inflate our tires. When the light shines down you shall turn your thermostat to 72, fill your tires and vote for Barack B!tches.

Ultra Peanut
08-04-2008, 11:47 PM
Will inflating your tires properly give you better gas mileage, possibly. Is it a good energy policy? LMAOIt's as good an "energy policy" as what the Republicans refuse to stop bleating about; that is to say, neither addresses the underlying problem (which is why Obama isn't pushing it as a solution, but rather a temporary workaround), but at least one is a hell of a lot cheaper to enact.

LOL "INFLATE YOUR TIRES"
LOL "WE CANNOT RELY ON OIL"
LOL "THERE ARE NO WMDS"
LOL "WHAT LINK DOES SADDAM HAVE WITH AL-QAEDA"
LOL "THERE WILL BE SECTARIAN VIOLENCE"

SBK
08-04-2008, 11:49 PM
You people kill me.

jAZ
08-04-2008, 11:50 PM
We don't need to drill for oil, we can inflate our tires. When the light shines down you shall turn your thermostat to 72, fill your tires and vote for Barack B!tches.

I think you just proved yourself just like all the other cartoonish Rove-bots. Kinda sad day, actually.

Guru
08-04-2008, 11:50 PM
We don't need to drill for oil, we can inflate our tires. When the light shines down you shall turn your thermostat to 72, fill your tires and vote for Barack B!tches.

Who the hell keeps their thermostat at 72?

I keep mine between 76 and 78 during the summer and at 67-69 in the winter.

SBK
08-04-2008, 11:51 PM
The obvious solution is to invest $150,000,000 over 5 years to create 5 million jobs.

We need energy independence, and we shall have it by taxing the crap out of oil companies because it's such a proven model.

Our cars should run on wind, better yet, cow farts cause they're bad for the environment.

You're all a bunch of stupid typical white people.

SBK
08-04-2008, 11:52 PM
I think you just proved yourself just like all the other cartoonish Rove-bots. Kinda sad day, actually.

What is a Rove-bot? Is this one of the terms a moonbat would use?

Reaper16
08-04-2008, 11:53 PM
You people kill me.
That seems like a poor search engine. I used Google, and it brought up post #13.

jAZ
08-04-2008, 11:54 PM
The obvious solution is to invest $150,000,000 over 5 years to create 5 million jobs.

We need energy independence, and we shall have it by taxing the crap out of oil companies because it's such a proven model.

Our cars should run on wind, better yet, cow farts cause they're bad for the environment.

You're all a bunch of stupid typical white people.

Nice edit.

That post you deleted completely proved you are a Rove-bot. Reality be damned, just parrot the latest talking point.

jAZ
08-04-2008, 11:55 PM
You people kill me.

This is an energy policy...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

Barack Obama’s Plan

Reduce the Burden of Rising Gas Prices on Working Families

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Barack Obama has called on the President to enact a second round of economic stimulus to immediately put tax rebates in the pockets of American families to pay for rising energy prices. As president, Obama will enact a tax fairness agenda that provides 150 million workers a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of $500 per person or $1,000 per working family.
Crack Down on Excessive Energy Speculation

Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.Enact a Windfall Profits Tax on the Top Grossing Oil Companies and Ease the Burden on American Families: The oil industry has profited greatly—over $150 billion in 2007—due to global instability fueled by conflict in Iraq, failing domestic fiscal policies that have weakened the U.S. dollar and skyrocketing global demand resulting from a lack of investment in alternatives. Barack Obama supports imposing a windfall profits penalty on oil selling at or over $80 per barrel. Revenue from the proposal will be invested in a number of measures to reduce the burden of rising prices on families.
Require Oil Companies to Use Existing Drilling Leases: The 68 million acres of stockpiled leases have the potential to produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil each day. This would nearly double total U.S. oil production. The Obama plan would force oil and gas companies to either produce or pay a fee on unused federal onshore and offshore leases they are stockpiling.
End Oil and Gas Industry Tax Breaks: Obama has called for repealing the oil and gas industry tax breaks that President Bush himself has said himself are unnecessary given today’s strong market incentive for expanding exploration and production.
Cooperate with Oil Importing Nations to Reduce Demand: As new large oil importing nations come on the market, the United States is at the mercy of an ever more volatile oil market. Obama believes we should use existing organizations, like NATO, to make energy security a shared global goal. We should take steps to engage the largest new consumers, China and India, including by inviting them to join the International Energy Agency.
Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050


Cap and Trade: Obama supports implementation of a market-based cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions by the amount scientists say is necessary: 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050. Obama's cap-and-trade system will require all pollution credits to be auctioned. A 100 percent auction ensures that all polluters pay for every ton of emissions they release, rather than giving these emission rights away to coal and oil companies. Some of the revenue generated by auctioning allowances will be used to support the development of clean energy, to invest in energy efficiency improvements, and to address transition costs, including helping American workers affected by this economic transition.
Confront Deforestation and Promote Carbon Sequestration: Obama will develop domestic incentives that reward forest owners, farmers, and ranchers when they plant trees, restore grasslands, or undertake farming practices that capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.Invest in a Clean Energy Future


Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy: Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants, and begin the transition to a new digital electricity grid. A principal focus of this fund will be devoted to ensuring that technologies that are developed in the U.S. are rapidly commercialized in the U.S. and deployed around the globe.
Double Energy Research and Development Funding: Obama will double science and research funding for clean energy projects including those that make use of our biomass, solar and wind resources.
Invest in a Skilled Clean Technologies Workforce: Obama will use proceeds from the cap-and-trade auction program to invest in job training and transition programs to help workers and industries adapt to clean technology development and production. Obama will also create an energy-focused Green Jobs Corps to connect disconnected and disadvantaged youth with job skills for a high-growth industry.
Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders: Obama will establish a federal investment program to help manufacturing centers modernize and Americans learn the new skills they need to produce green products.
Clean Technologies Deployment Venture Capital Fund: Obama will create a Clean Technologies Venture Capital Fund to fill a critical gap in U.S. technology development. Obama will invest $10 billion per year into this fund for five years. The fund will partner with existing investment funds and our National Laboratories to ensure that promising technologies move beyond the lab and are commercialized in the U.S
Require 25 Percent of Renewable Electricity by 2025: Obama will establish a 25 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 25 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2025.
Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology: Obama will significantly increase the resources devoted to the commercialization and deployment of low-carbon coal technologies. Obama will consider whatever policy tools are necessary, including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities, to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology.Support Next Generation Biofuels


Deploy Cellulosic Ethanol: Obama will invest federal resources, including tax incentives, cash prizes and government contracts into developing the most promising technologies with the goal of getting the first two billion gallons of cellulosic ethanol into the system by 2013.
Expand Locally-Owned Biofuel Refineries: Less than 10 percent of new ethanol production today is from farmer-owned refineries. New ethanol refineries help jumpstart rural economies. Obama will create a number of incentives for local communities to invest in their biofuels refineries.
Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard: Barack Obama will establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard to speed the introduction of low-carbon non-petroleum fuels. The standard requires fuels suppliers to reduce the carbon their fuel emits by ten percent by 2020.
Increase Renewable Fuel Standard: Obama will require 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels to be included in the fuel supply by 2022 and will increase that to at least 60 billion gallons of advanced biofuels like cellulosic ethanol by 2030.Set America on Path to Oil Independence

Obama's plan will reduce oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or 10 million barrels per day, by 2030. This will more than offset the equivalent of the oil we would import from OPEC nations in 2030.

Increase Fuel Economy Standards: Obama will double fuel economy standards within 18 years. His plan will provide retooling tax credits and loan guarantees for domestic auto plants and parts manufacturers, so that they can build new fuel-efficient cars rather than overseas companies. Obama will also invest in advanced vehicle technology such as advanced lightweight materials and new engines.Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030


Set National Building Efficiency Goals: Barack Obama will establish a goal of making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030. He'll also establish a national goal of improving new building efficiency by 50 percent and existing building efficiency by 25 percent over the next decade to help us meet the 2030 goal.
Establish a Grant Program for Early Adopters: Obama will create a competitive grant program to award those states and localities that take the first steps to implement new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.
Invest in a Digital Smart Grid: Obama will pursue a major investment in our utility grid to enable a tremendous increase in renewable generation and accommodate modern energy requirements, such as reliability, smart metering, and distributed storageRestore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change


Create New Forum of Largest Greenhouse Gas Emitters: Obama will create a Global Energy Forum — that includes all G-8 members plus Brazil, China, India, Mexico and South Africa –the largest energy consuming nations from both the developed and developing world. The forum would focus exclusively on global energy and environmental issues.
Re-Engage with the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change: The UNFCCC process is the main international forum dedicated to addressing the climate problem and an Obama administration will work constructively within it.

SBK
08-04-2008, 11:59 PM
This is an energy policy...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

Barack Obama’s Plan

Reduce the Burden of Rising Gas Prices on Working Families

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Barack Obama has called on the President to enact a second round of economic stimulus to immediately put tax rebates in the pockets of American families to pay for rising energy prices. As president, Obama will enact a tax fairness agenda that provides 150 million workers a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of $500 per person or $1,000 per working family.
Crack Down on Excessive Energy Speculation
Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.Enact a Windfall Profits Tax on the Top Grossing Oil Companies and Ease the Burden on American Families: The oil industry has profited greatly—over $150 billion in 2007—due to global instability fueled by conflict in Iraq, failing domestic fiscal policies that have weakened the U.S. dollar and skyrocketing global demand resulting from a lack of investment in alternatives. Barack Obama supports imposing a windfall profits penalty on oil selling at or over $80 per barrel. Revenue from the proposal will be invested in a number of measures to reduce the burden of rising prices on families.
Require Oil Companies to Use Existing Drilling Leases: The 68 million acres of stockpiled leases have the potential to produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil each day. This would nearly double total U.S. oil production. The Obama plan would force oil and gas companies to either produce or pay a fee on unused federal onshore and offshore leases they are stockpiling.
End Oil and Gas Industry Tax Breaks: Obama has called for repealing the oil and gas industry tax breaks that President Bush himself has said himself are unnecessary given today’s strong market incentive for expanding exploration and production.
Cooperate with Oil Importing Nations to Reduce Demand: As new large oil importing nations come on the market, the United States is at the mercy of an ever more volatile oil market. Obama believes we should use existing organizations, like NATO, to make energy security a shared global goal. We should take steps to engage the largest new consumers, China and India, including by inviting them to join the International Energy Agency.
Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050

Cap and Trade: Obama supports implementation of a market-based cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions by the amount scientists say is necessary: 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050. Obama's cap-and-trade system will require all pollution credits to be auctioned. A 100 percent auction ensures that all polluters pay for every ton of emissions they release, rather than giving these emission rights away to coal and oil companies. Some of the revenue generated by auctioning allowances will be used to support the development of clean energy, to invest in energy efficiency improvements, and to address transition costs, including helping American workers affected by this economic transition.
Confront Deforestation and Promote Carbon Sequestration: Obama will develop domestic incentives that reward forest owners, farmers, and ranchers when they plant trees, restore grasslands, or undertake farming practices that capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.Invest in a Clean Energy Future

Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy: Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants, and begin the transition to a new digital electricity grid. A principal focus of this fund will be devoted to ensuring that technologies that are developed in the U.S. are rapidly commercialized in the U.S. and deployed around the globe.
Double Energy Research and Development Funding: Obama will double science and research funding for clean energy projects including those that make use of our biomass, solar and wind resources.
Invest in a Skilled Clean Technologies Workforce: Obama will use proceeds from the cap-and-trade auction program to invest in job training and transition programs to help workers and industries adapt to clean technology development and production. Obama will also create an energy-focused Green Jobs Corps to connect disconnected and disadvantaged youth with job skills for a high-growth industry.
Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders: Obama will establish a federal investment program to help manufacturing centers modernize and Americans learn the new skills they need to produce green products.
Clean Technologies Deployment Venture Capital Fund: Obama will create a Clean Technologies Venture Capital Fund to fill a critical gap in U.S. technology development. Obama will invest $10 billion per year into this fund for five years. The fund will partner with existing investment funds and our National Laboratories to ensure that promising technologies move beyond the lab and are commercialized in the U.S
Require 25 Percent of Renewable Electricity by 2025: Obama will establish a 25 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 25 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2025.
Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology: Obama will significantly increase the resources devoted to the commercialization and deployment of low-carbon coal technologies. Obama will consider whatever policy tools are necessary, including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities, to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology.Support Next Generation Biofuels

Deploy Cellulosic Ethanol: Obama will invest federal resources, including tax incentives, cash prizes and government contracts into developing the most promising technologies with the goal of getting the first two billion gallons of cellulosic ethanol into the system by 2013.
Expand Locally-Owned Biofuel Refineries: Less than 10 percent of new ethanol production today is from farmer-owned refineries. New ethanol refineries help jumpstart rural economies. Obama will create a number of incentives for local communities to invest in their biofuels refineries.
Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard: Barack Obama will establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard to speed the introduction of low-carbon non-petroleum fuels. The standard requires fuels suppliers to reduce the carbon their fuel emits by ten percent by 2020.
Increase Renewable Fuel Standard: Obama will require 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels to be included in the fuel supply by 2022 and will increase that to at least 60 billion gallons of advanced biofuels like cellulosic ethanol by 2030.Set America on Path to Oil Independence

Obama's plan will reduce oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or 10 million barrels per day, by 2030. This will more than offset the equivalent of the oil we would import from OPEC nations in 2030.
Increase Fuel Economy Standards: Obama will double fuel economy standards within 18 years. His plan will provide retooling tax credits and loan guarantees for domestic auto plants and parts manufacturers, so that they can build new fuel-efficient cars rather than overseas companies. Obama will also invest in advanced vehicle technology such as advanced lightweight materials and new engines.Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030

Set National Building Efficiency Goals: Barack Obama will establish a goal of making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030. He'll also establish a national goal of improving new building efficiency by 50 percent and existing building efficiency by 25 percent over the next decade to help us meet the 2030 goal.
Establish a Grant Program for Early Adopters: Obama will create a competitive grant program to award those states and localities that take the first steps to implement new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.
Invest in a Digital Smart Grid: Obama will pursue a major investment in our utility grid to enable a tremendous increase in renewable generation and accommodate modern energy requirements, such as reliability, smart metering, and distributed storageRestore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change

Create New Forum of Largest Greenhouse Gas Emitters: Obama will create a Global Energy Forum — that includes all G-8 members plus Brazil, China, India, Mexico and South Africa –the largest energy consuming nations from both the developed and developing world. The forum would focus exclusively on global energy and environmental issues.
Re-Engage with the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change: The UNFCCC process is the main international forum dedicated to addressing the climate problem and an Obama administration will work constructively within it.

Government control+higher taxes=lower prices? Is this serious?

Do liberals not remember what Jimmy Carter did, and how his windfall tax worked out?

This energy policy should be enough for Obama to get destroyed in the election, it's a freaking disaster. What it lacks in specifics it makes up in government controls and fantasy land hopes and dreams.

SBK
08-05-2008, 12:00 AM
Nice edit.

That post you deleted completely proved you are a Rove-bot. Reality be damned, just parrot the latest talking point.

I didn't delete any posts.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 12:03 AM
Government control+higher taxes=lower prices? Is this serious?

Do liberals not remember what Jimmy Carter did, and how his windfall tax worked out?

This energy policy should be enough for Obama to get destroyed in the election, it's a freaking disaster. What it lacks in specifics it makes up in government controls and fantasy land hopes and dreams.

What happened to your last 2 talking points?

tire gague = energy policy
obama <> specifics

They're still sitting up there making you look "dumb".

jAZ
08-05-2008, 12:04 AM
I didn't delete any posts.

You're right. I confused a subsequent post you made with a previous one I didn't see again.

How about *I* delete a post? :p

SBK
08-05-2008, 12:08 AM
What happened to your last 2 talking points?

tire gague = energy policy
obama <> specifics

They're still sitting up there making you look "dumb".

You've got the biggest set of balls ever. You can post Obama's "energy policy" as if it's something to be proud of and call me dumb? LMAO

Do you have any idea what dumb means? Calling people "rovebots" using terms like "cheneyburton" calling anyone that disagrees with the politics of Obama "racist"---being against capital punishment then posting threads giddy with the idea that Cheney could be executed, posting that Rove will be indicted in 2 weeks based upon nothing but pure BS and you're calling me dumb? You've got a pair, or you don't know what dumb means, one of the 2. I hope you're in need of a wheelbarrel.

SBK
08-05-2008, 12:09 AM
Anyway, good night, I'm sure this thread will be lively in the morning. Hopefully it'll bring out some good laughs and not a bunch of hate and discontent.

LMAO

beer bacon
08-05-2008, 12:10 AM
You've got the biggest set of balls ever. You can post Obama's "energy policy" as if it's something to be proud of and call me dumb? LMAO

Do you have any idea what dumb means? Calling people "rovebots" using terms like "cheneyburton" calling anyone that disagrees with the politics of Obama "racist"---being against capital punishment then posting threads giddy with the idea that Cheney could be executed, posting that Rove will be indicted in 2 weeks based upon nothing but pure BS and you're calling me dumb? You've got a pair, or you don't know what dumb means, one of the 2. I hope you're in need of a wheelbarrel.

Look how dumb you are.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 12:16 AM
You can post Obama's "energy policy" as if it's something to be proud of and call me dumb?
I post his "energy policy" as if it's exposes you as a talkingpoint spitting Rove-bot. Which is sadly what you've decided to be lately.

beer bacon
08-05-2008, 12:16 AM
This is a reminder that the people mocking this whole tire gauge thing now are the same people who wore purple band-aids to the 2004 GOP convention. These are the people that demonized an actual Vietnam vet while they deified a guy that spent the war dodging his weekends with Texas National Guard.

Now, these same people are convinced that McCain's vet status is WHY he should be our next President. Logic, consistency, and decency don't mean shit to most of these people.

Guru
08-05-2008, 12:20 AM
Damn guys, the thread gets uglier by the minute.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 12:40 AM
This is a reminder that the people mocking this whole tire gauge thing now are the same people who wore purple band-aids to the 2004 GOP convention. These are the people that demonized an actual Vietnam vet while they deified a guy that spent the war dodging his weekends with Texas National Guard.

Now, these same people are convinced that McCain's vet status is WHY he should be our next President. Logic, consistency, and decency don't mean shit to most of these people.

It's one thing to disagree on real policy issues. But that's a losing battle for McCain and his Rove-bots know it's not going to change anything.

For the most part, conservative policies are only supported by a minority of voters.

But lying gives you so much more ammunition to stoke fear in voters.

Ultra Peanut
08-05-2008, 12:51 AM
Government control+higher taxes=lower prices? Is this serious?

Do liberals not remember what Jimmy Carter did, and how his windfall tax worked out?

This energy policy should be enough for Obama to get destroyed in the election, it's a freaking disaster. What it lacks in specifics it makes up in government controls and fantasy land hopes and dreams.NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL NO SPECIFICS LOL

acesn8s
08-05-2008, 04:25 AM
This is an energy policy...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

Barack Obama’s Plan

Reduce the Burden of Rising Gas Prices on Working Families

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Barack Obama has called on the President to enact a second round of economic stimulus to immediately put tax rebates in the pockets of American families to pay for rising energy prices. As president, Obama will enact a tax fairness agenda that provides 150 million workers a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of $500 per person or $1,000 per working family.

Crack Down on Excessive Energy Speculation
Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.Enact a Windfall Profits Tax on the Top Grossing Oil Companies and Ease the Burden on American Families: The oil industry has profited greatly—over $150 billion in 2007—due to global instability fueled by conflict in Iraq, failing domestic fiscal policies that have weakened the U.S. dollar and skyrocketing global demand resulting from a lack of investment in alternatives. Barack Obama supports imposing a windfall profits penalty on oil selling at or over $80 per barrel. Revenue from the proposal will be invested in a number of measures to reduce the burden of rising prices on families.
Require Oil Companies to Use Existing Drilling Leases: The 68 million acres of stockpiled leases have the potential to produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil each day. This would nearly double total U.S. oil production. The Obama plan would force oil and gas companies to either produce or pay a fee on unused federal onshore and offshore leases they are stockpiling.
End Oil and Gas Industry Tax Breaks: Obama has called for repealing the oil and gas industry tax breaks that President Bush himself has said himself are unnecessary given today’s strong market incentive for expanding exploration and production.
Cooperate with Oil Importing Nations to Reduce Demand: As new large oil importing nations come on the market, the United States is at the mercy of an ever more volatile oil market. Obama believes we should use existing organizations, like NATO, to make energy security a shared global goal. We should take steps to engage the largest new consumers, China and India, including by inviting them to join the International Energy Agency.
Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050


Cap and Trade: Obama supports implementation of a market-based cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions by the amount scientists say is necessary: 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050. Obama's cap-and-trade system will require all pollution credits to be auctioned. A 100 percent auction ensures that all polluters pay for every ton of emissions they release, rather than giving these emission rights away to coal and oil companies. Some of the revenue generated by auctioning allowances will be used to support the development of clean energy, to invest in energy efficiency improvements, and to address transition costs, including helping American workers affected by this economic transition.
Confront Deforestation and Promote Carbon Sequestration: Obama will develop domestic incentives that reward forest owners, farmers, and ranchers when they plant trees, restore grasslands, or undertake farming practices that capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.Invest in a Clean Energy Future


Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy: Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants, and begin the transition to a new digital electricity grid. A principal focus of this fund will be devoted to ensuring that technologies that are developed in the U.S. are rapidly commercialized in the U.S. and deployed around the globe.
Double Energy Research and Development Funding: Obama will double science and research funding for clean energy projects including those that make use of our biomass, solar and wind resources.
Invest in a Skilled Clean Technologies Workforce: Obama will use proceeds from the cap-and-trade auction program to invest in job training and transition programs to help workers and industries adapt to clean technology development and production. Obama will also create an energy-focused Green Jobs Corps to connect disconnected and disadvantaged youth with job skills for a high-growth industry.
Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders: Obama will establish a federal investment program to help manufacturing centers modernize and Americans learn the new skills they need to produce green products.
Clean Technologies Deployment Venture Capital Fund: Obama will create a Clean Technologies Venture Capital Fund to fill a critical gap in U.S. technology development. Obama will invest $10 billion per year into this fund for five years. The fund will partner with existing investment funds and our National Laboratories to ensure that promising technologies move beyond the lab and are commercialized in the U.S
Require 25 Percent of Renewable Electricity by 2025: Obama will establish a 25 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 25 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2025.
Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology: Obama will significantly increase the resources devoted to the commercialization and deployment of low-carbon coal technologies. Obama will consider whatever policy tools are necessary, including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities, to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology.Support Next Generation Biofuels


Deploy Cellulosic Ethanol: Obama will invest federal resources, including tax incentives, cash prizes and government contracts into developing the most promising technologies with the goal of getting the first two billion gallons of cellulosic ethanol into the system by 2013.
Expand Locally-Owned Biofuel Refineries: Less than 10 percent of new ethanol production today is from farmer-owned refineries. New ethanol refineries help jumpstart rural economies. Obama will create a number of incentives for local communities to invest in their biofuels refineries.
Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard: Barack Obama will establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard to speed the introduction of low-carbon non-petroleum fuels. The standard requires fuels suppliers to reduce the carbon their fuel emits by ten percent by 2020.
Increase Renewable Fuel Standard: Obama will require 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels to be included in the fuel supply by 2022 and will increase that to at least 60 billion gallons of advanced biofuels like cellulosic ethanol by 2030.Set America on Path to Oil Independence


Obama's plan will reduce oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or 10 million barrels per day, by 2030. This will more than offset the equivalent of the oil we would import from OPEC nations in 2030.
Increase Fuel Economy Standards: Obama will double fuel economy standards within 18 years. His plan will provide retooling tax credits and loan guarantees for domestic auto plants and parts manufacturers, so that they can build new fuel-efficient cars rather than overseas companies. Obama will also invest in advanced vehicle technology such as advanced lightweight materials and new engines.Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030


Set National Building Efficiency Goals: Barack Obama will establish a goal of making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030. He'll also establish a national goal of improving new building efficiency by 50 percent and existing building efficiency by 25 percent over the next decade to help us meet the 2030 goal.
Establish a Grant Program for Early Adopters: Obama will create a competitive grant program to award those states and localities that take the first steps to implement new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.
Invest in a Digital Smart Grid: Obama will pursue a major investment in our utility grid to enable a tremendous increase in renewable generation and accommodate modern energy requirements, such as reliability, smart metering, and distributed storageRestore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change


Create New Forum of Largest Greenhouse Gas Emitters: Obama will create a Global Energy Forum — that includes all G-8 members plus Brazil, China, India, Mexico and South Africa –the largest energy consuming nations from both the developed and developing world. The forum would focus exclusively on global energy and environmental issues.
Re-Engage with the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change: The UNFCCC process is the main international forum dedicated to addressing the climate problem and an Obama administration will work constructively within it.
If this is such a great idea, why doesn't he stop campaigning long enough to introduce a bill with these ideas? Why do I have to wait until he is POTUS before he does something?

Friendo
08-05-2008, 04:51 AM
If this is such a great idea, why doesn't he stop campaigning long enough to introduce a bill with these ideas? Why do I have to wait until he is POTUS before he does something?

hell, I wouldn't either. he's right at the edge of being able to introduce and implement a comprehensive plan, as opposed to the predictable cut & paste Republican band-aid. Clinton likely would've done more, but he was pragmatic enough to know that he couldn't fight that battle. "why do I have to wait" conveys the spirit of the Right, and those on the Right who simply want to exploit this issue for political gain. If waiting another 5 or 6 months to begin serious work on this issue were to lose me this election, then I would say so be it. Republicans have dug us so many holes, and proved themselves so incapable of effective solutions, I'd play this ball where it lies.

acesn8s
08-05-2008, 05:06 AM
hell, I wouldn't either. he's right at the edge of being able to introduce and implement a comprehensive plan, as opposed to the predictable cut & paste Republican band-aid. Clinton likely would've done more, but he was pragmatic enough to know that he couldn't fight that battle. "why do I have to wait" conveys the spirit of the Right, and those on the Right who simply want to exploit this issue for political gain. If waiting another 5 or 6 months to begin serious work on this issue were to lose me this election, then I would say so be it. Republicans have dug us so many holes, and proved themselves so incapable of effective solutions, I'd play this ball where it lies.
Congress had some pretty good debates leading up to their break. Good points were made on both sides of the aisle. However, not a single thing was done to address the problem. Why? Nobody wanted to vote for or against any bill as it may affect the outcome of their election. Because being a congressman is more important than solving the issue.

Friendo
08-05-2008, 05:23 AM
Congress had some pretty good debates leading up to their break. Good points were made on both sides of the aisle. However, not a single thing was done to address the problem. Why? Nobody wanted to vote for or against any bill as it may affect the outcome of their election. Because being a congressman is more important than solving the issue.

no argument from me that Congress lacks courage, but on THIS particular issue, the finger points right back at us--this has been coming on for a long time--5 more months won't make or break it, and frankly, I from what I've seen and heard on this lately, I'm skeptical that the American peeps have truly taken their medicine yet. A little more "leavening" might be helpful as we approach the task.

Guru
08-05-2008, 05:26 AM
Congress had some pretty good debates leading up to their break. Good points were made on both sides of the aisle. However, not a single thing was done to address the problem. Why? Nobody wanted to vote for or against any bill as it may affect the outcome of their election. Because being a congressman is more important than solving the issue.

I would soooo love to see term limits on the house and senate. So sick of being stuck with the same people election after election. Way too many lifers on both sides right now.

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 05:30 AM
I don't know why anyone is surprised the argument went right over people's heads.

Its just ridiculous that Obama is being hammered on for advocating the better of two ideas. Cheaper, instant and the results are much larger.

Thaaaat explains why SBK and others have latched onto such a retarded talking point.

Obama states the obvious, O-bots cream their jeans.

bkkcoh
08-05-2008, 05:47 AM
But is it also the case that this will do exactly what Obama complained about drilling, it wont lower the cost of gas immediately. True this is good advice, but hello captain obvious.

Obama was wrong in the fact that the drilling offshore and other places wouldn't decrease the price quickly, How much did the price of crude go down right after Bush signed the executive order? $12 - 14 dollars a barrel

How much do you think it would decrease if congress would get off their collective asses and pass legislation to drill offshore and other places also.

Ultra Peanut
08-05-2008, 05:58 AM
Obama states the obvious, O-bots cream their jeans.So now the thing Hannitards have been mocking for a week is "the obvious," is it?

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 06:07 AM
So now the thing Hannitards have been mocking for a week is "the obvious," is it?

ROFL

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-05-2008, 06:11 AM
ROFL

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/motivator9493920.jpg

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 06:12 AM
I properly inflated the air in my tires, but the price of gasoline didn't go down like B.O. (our great leader) said it would.

:spock:

Ultra Peanut
08-05-2008, 06:23 AM
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/motivator9493920.jpg

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Gbr2VqjvwU4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Gbr2VqjvwU4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 06:30 AM
So now the thing Hannitards have been mocking for a week is "the obvious," is it?

Hey! if you don't turn your car AC on--- YOU CAN SAVE GAS!!!

Wow, I didn't know that until OUR GREAT LEADER B.O. put it up on his website!

ROFL

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 06:30 AM
So now the thing Hannitards have been mocking for a week is "the obvious," is it?

There is this schizophrenia in the environmental movement that is counter to it's core purpose.

On one hand you have cataclysmic rhetoric wherein if we don't all band together and make a concerted effort at a solution mankind will be extinct in the near future. We need to stop doing this, and do more of that, and we need to do it now!!!
Then when people are good and apprehensive "What do we do? What do we do?!!!!" . . . "Oh, just put some air in your tires."

And the problem I have with the topic header is, at every turn of the analysis, there is a could, might, should, maybe. They posit that Obama's solution is better because 3% is bigger than 1%. But the 1% is 1% of ACTUAL national consumption, but the 3% is a possible individual improvement. Meaning if you're driving around on nearly flat, nearly bald tires and horribly out of tune, with bad sensors and filters etc, etc. You MIGHT get as much as 3% improvement in YOUR ONE car with proper inflation, and you MIGHT get as much as 4% with a tuneup of YOUR ONE car.

And as the article acknowledges, most people are already in substantial compliance with what's needed on that front, so the vast majority of the populace will get NO benefit from Obama's 'solution.' A few more will realize a marginal benefit somewhat less than 3%, and I'd posit that the schmoes who drive around out of tune and flat tired aren't the high minded civics types to begin with.

HonestChieffan
08-05-2008, 06:41 AM
There is this schizophrenia in the environmental movement that is counter to it's core purpose.

On one hand you have cataclysmic rhetoric wherein if we don't all band together and make a concerted effort at a solution mankind will be extinct in the near future. We need to stop doing this, and do more of that, and we need to do it now!!!
Then when people are good and apprehensive "What do we do? What do we do?!!!!" . . . "Oh, just put some air in your tires."

And the problem I have with the topic header is, at every turn of the analysis, there is a could, might, should, maybe. They posit that Obama's solution is better because 3% is bigger than 1%. But the 1% is 1% of ACTUAL national consumption, but the 3% is a possible individual improvement. Meaning if you're driving around on nearly flat, nearly bald tires and horribly out of tune, with bad sensors and filters etc, etc. You MIGHT get as much as 3% improvement in YOUR ONE car with proper inflation, and you MIGHT get as much as 4% with a tuneup of YOUR ONE car.

And as the article acknowledges, most people are already in substantial compliance with what's needed on that front, so the vast majority of the populace will get NO benefit from Obama's 'solution.' A few more will realize a marginal benefit somewhat less than 3%, and I'd posit that the schmoes who drive around out of tune and flat tired aren't the high minded civics types to begin with.


Please do not inject thought into this thread. Good Post.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 07:04 AM
Its as if some of you cant read or choose not to. We can see an immediate savings of up to 7%, thats not an energy policy, its conservation. Drilling will supply us 1% in 20 years.
Obama didnt say gas prices would go down if SBK and Shtsprayer inflated their tires. He is not offering it up as a solution as some of you pretend, only as something we can immediately do to improve our consumption.
I happen to own an automotive repair shop and I promise you, most people never check their tire pressure and could use a tune up. And these are surprisingly civic minded people in most other areas of their lives.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 07:14 AM
Its as if some of you cant read or choose not to. We can see an immediate savings of up to 7%, thats not an energy policy, its conservation. Drilling will supply us 1% in 20 years.
Obama didnt say gas prices would go down if SBK and Shtsprayer inflated their tires. He is not offering it up as a solution as some of you pretend, only as something we can immediately do to improve our consumption.
I happen to own an automotive repair shop and I promise you, most people never check their tire pressure and could use a tune up. And these are surprisingly civic minded people in most other areas of their lives.

And the bolded is either a demonstration of said inability to read, or a flat lie.

'We' can NOT see an immediate savings up to 7%. Assuming arguendo that their calculations are right, I could potentially see as high as approaching 7% if everything that could poissibly cut efficiency was wrong with my personal vehicle. You could too, if everything potentially wrong was wrong with your vehicle as well.
But that doesn't extrapolate to the entire population. The vast majority of the population have their vehicles tuned and inflated to within a small fraction of a percentage of the efficiency their respective cars are capable of.

Do the math, one guy with 7% improvement, averaged in with 100,000,000 with .001% improvement. Heck average in 2 if you like.


But what the hey! I'll bite. I'll go fill check my tire pressure again, and fill them if necessary. Now we can all STFU about the environment because we've taken the necessary steps.

bsp4444
08-05-2008, 07:26 AM
Obama states the obvious, O-bots cream their jeans.

Or, Obama states the obvious and gets crucified by people like you who are too dense to recognize it.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 07:27 AM
Actually its only 2 things mentioned that could save up to 7%. There are many other factors. People drive around with their "check engine" light on all the time, this could have an even larger effect on fuel economy. A brake dragging, a wheel bearing going bad, a faulty power steering pump, alternator, water pump. Improper alignment. The list goes on and on.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 07:28 AM
The Republicans are just being idiots now. They act as if having the proper tire pressure is Barrack O's entire energy policy. Hey dipshits, it isn't his entire plan, but thanks for making a mountain out of a mole hill, like you mudslingers like to do.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 07:33 AM
The Republicans are just being idiots now. They act as if having the proper tire pressure is Barrack O's entire energy policy. Hey dipshits, it isn't his entire plan, but thanks for making a mountain out of a mole hill, like you mudslingers like to do.

More excellent reading comprehension.
The f@cking thread starter posits that inflating your tires and getting a tuneup alone is a superior energy policy to offshore drilling, with the zinger "Obama was right!!!OMGWTFBQQ"
And it's the people who critique this paper-thin analysis who are making a mountain out of a molehill??

Where do you get the balls? You're acting like that bratty sibling who taps their brother or sister annoyingly for hours until they tap you back and scream "Mommmy!! Billy's HITTING MEEEEE!!!!"

bsp4444
08-05-2008, 07:34 AM
The next thing will be that Obama has ties to air compressor companies and stands to make a killing off of everyone rushing to air up their tires. Go look that up SBK and Shtsprayer.

I Hate Big Air!

HonestChieffan
08-05-2008, 07:35 AM
The Republicans are just being idiots now. They act as if having the proper tire pressure is Barrack O's entire energy policy. Hey dipshits, it isn't his entire plan, but thanks for making a mountain out of a mole hill, like you mudslingers like to do.

True. The parts they leave out are not drilling, no nuclear, wind if no one objects to the visual polution, and no more coal fired plants.

Oh yea...Taxing the oil companies should help reduce our dependence on foreign oil a bunch.

Then we will have the Obama plan elements where he orders someone, not sure who, to make a percentage of our electricity come from sustainable sources by some future date....Nevermind thats not withing the scope of his freaking job and that ulitities at last report dont report to the freaking president and that they are responsible for making a profit...

Plan? No its not a plan if it doesnt have actionable items that he has control over that are implementable measureable and real.

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 07:36 AM
Or, Obama states the obvious and gets crucified by people like you who are too dense to recognize it.

MERCI BEAUCOUP!

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 07:37 AM
The Republicans are just being idiots now. They act as if having the proper tire pressure is Barrack O's entire energy policy. Hey dipshits, it isn't his entire plan, but thanks for making a mountain out of a mole hill, like you mudslingers like to do.


Welcome back, Piss Boy!

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 07:38 AM
More excellent reading comprehension.
The f@cking thread starter posits that inflating your tires and getting a tuneup alone is a superior energy policy to offshore drilling, with the zinger "Obama was right!!!OMGWTFBQQ"
And it's the people who critique this paper-thin analysis who are making a mountain out of a molehill??

Where do you get the balls? You're acting like that bratty sibling who taps their brother or sister annoyingly for hours until they tap you back and scream "Mommmy!! Billy's HITTING MEEEEE!!!!"

Read: It was "Time magazine" that points out how Obama's plan is the better one!

I knew, you didnt even read it.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 07:40 AM
More excellent reading comprehension.
The f@cking thread starter posits that inflating your tires and getting a tuneup alone is a superior energy policy to offshore drilling, with the zinger "Obama was right!!!OMGWTFBQQ"
And it's the people who critique this paper-thin analysis who are making a mountain out of a molehill??

Where do you get the balls? You're acting like that bratty sibling who taps their brother or sister annoyingly for hours until they tap you back and scream "Mommmy!! Billy's HITTING MEEEEE!!!!"Again, is that Barrack O's entire energy policy? We all know the answer is no, so, yes, it's a mountain out of a mole hill, because that's all the republicans can do, sling mud and call out others, when McCain , himself, has been part of that congress, who hasn't addressed the issue for 30 years, 28 of which, McCain has been in congress. Why is McCain given a free pass when he constantly votes AGAINST sound energy policies?

Again, is having the proper tire pressure in your car a bad idea? Of course not.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 07:40 AM
Actually its only 2 things mentioned that could save up to 7%. There are many other factors. People drive around with their "check engine" light on all the time, this could have an even larger effect on fuel economy. A brake dragging, a wheel bearing going bad, a faulty power steering pump, alternator, water pump. Improper alignment. The list goes on and on.

First off, get back to me when you have the figures on the carbon footprint of a submaximally performing wheel bearing/PS pump/alternator/etc, versus the footprint of manufacturing and installing a replacement and dealing with the replaced unit.

Second, I think you still overestimate the amount of people run around with these problem to the degree that it'd make an efficiency difference. Wheel bearing get effing noisy when they go bad. A faulty alternator is a dead car in short order. People are very attuned to steering response and will notice when their pump is effing up.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 07:41 AM
Welcome back, Piss Boy!Howdy, shitstain. You still sucking off McCannity?

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 07:44 AM
Read: It was "Time magazine" that points out how Obama's plan is the better one!

I knew, you didnt even read it.
Don't be that guy. Thread starter as in the initial post in the thread, which was a quotation of an article from Time. I held no illusions that you came up with this dumbassery on your lonesome.

And Time doesn't 'point out' anything, it posits an OPINION that one of his ideas could maybe help some people's efficiency.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 07:49 AM
First off, get back to me when you have the figures on the carbon footprint of a submaximally performing wheel bearing/PS pump/alternator/etc, versus the footprint of manufacturing and installing a replacement and dealing with the replaced unit.


Second, I think you still overestimate the amount of people run around with these problem to the degree that it'd make an efficiency difference. Wheel bearing get effing noisy when they go bad. A faulty alternator is a dead car in short order. People are very attuned to steering response and will notice when their pump is effing up.

First, we are talking about fuel economy, not carbon footprints. If these parts are faulty they need to be replaced, regardless.

Second, I spend every day replacing these parts. People drive around with noisy parts as long as they can. The part has to actually break before most will replace it. An alternator can be noisy (bad bearing) and still charge the battery. It takes more energy to turn any rotating device with bad bearings, such as power steering pump, water pump etc., these items can still perform their duties but not efficently.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 07:49 AM
Don't be that guy. Thread starter as in the initial post in the thread, which was a quotation of an article from Time. I held no illusions that you came up with this dumbassery on your lonesome.

And Time doesn't 'point out' anything, it posits an OPINION that one of his ideas could maybe help some people's efficiency.
It's not an OPINION, that having tires properly inflated helps with gas mileage-that's a FACT. Keep spinning and avoiding the facts.

Ultra Peanut
08-05-2008, 07:53 AM
BL, I'm glad to see that you're as diligent about discussions pertaining to this completely blown out of proportion nugget as you are about McCain's portrayals of Obama as a vapid whore and the accusations that he played the race ca--Oh wait.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 07:55 AM
It's not an OPINION, that having tires properly inflated helps with gas mileage-that's a FACT. Keep spinning and avoiding the facts.

Proper inflation helping efficiency is a fact, but the extent it helps and the extent that the populace is out of compliance is an opinion.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 07:55 AM
Don't be that guy. Thread starter as in the initial post in the thread, which was a quotation of an article from Time. I held no illusions that you came up with this dumbassery on your lonesome.

And Time doesn't 'point out' anything, it posits an OPINION that one of his ideas could maybe help some people's efficiency.

Will you please read the articel!
It proves that it will definately help and in fact help more than drilling!

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 07:57 AM
Will you please read the articel!
It proves that it will definately help and in fact help more than drilling!

Sry, UP Haz nu werk for mi!!

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 07:58 AM
"We can save water, by not flushing our toilets." -Barack Obama

<loud cheer of moonbats/>

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 08:00 AM
Howdy, shitstain. You still sucking off McCannity?


Nope, your mom is while I tag her in the back.

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 08:00 AM
Sry, UP Haz nu werk for mi!!

ROFL

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 08:01 AM
First, we are talking about fuel economy, not carbon footprints. If these parts are faulty they need to be replaced, regardless.

1. No we're talking about energy consumption.
2. Faulty parts WILL BE replaced or the car no go, the only potential increase in efficiency concerns replacing submaximally performing, but still performing, parts.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 08:08 AM
1. No we're talking about energy consumption.
2. Faulty parts WILL BE replaced or the car no go, the only potential increase in efficiency concerns replacing submaximally performing, but still performing, parts.

Now we are getting somewhere.

My point is that tire inflation and tuneups arent the only way to improve fuel economy. So...your point that not everyone will receive 7% increase (which is valid) would be offset somewhat by these other factors.
Lets say its only 3% total. Its still an instant savings of 3%, by the time we see drillings impact we will still be way ahead.

For the record I am for both.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 08:10 AM
Shitstain, take the dick out of your mouth and we might be able to understand you a little better.

Redrum_69
08-05-2008, 08:12 AM
I can see why this and inflation go hand in hand....

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 08:14 AM
Now we are getting somewhere.

My point is that tire inflation and tuneups arent the only way to improve fuel economy. So...your point that not everyone will receive 7% increase (which is valid) would be offset somewhat by these other factors.
Lets say its only 3% total. Its still an instant savings of 3%, by the time we see drillings impact we will still be way ahead.

For the record I am for both.

Thing is, I'm nowhere NEAR 'let's say 3% total,' not on a nationwide scale.
3-7% is an individual potential.
My position is that the OVERWHELMING majority of motorists maintain their cars to a level that, while there may be some tweaking that could be done in tune and inflation, the benefit will be a small fraction of a percent.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 08:17 AM
Thing is, I'm nowhere NEAR 'let's say 3% total,' not on a nationwide scale.
3-7% is an individual potential.
My position is that the OVERWHELMING majority of motorists maintain their cars to a level that, while there may be some tweaking that could be done in tune and inflation, the benefit will be a small fraction of a percent.

Why don't they DRILL on the millions of acres that are readily available, then?

Programmer
08-05-2008, 08:25 AM
All the talk about offshore drilling and up in Anwar. Why are the oil companies not drilling on the leased property they already have?

Anyone know how many acres of leased land they have contracted?

Stewie
08-05-2008, 08:32 AM
I can't believe this is even a story. Aren't we hoping for better ideas than this? Sheesh!

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 08:33 AM
Why don't they DRILL on the millions of acres that are readily available, then?

Oh noes!! The Chewbacco defense!!

ROYC75
08-05-2008, 08:33 AM
This is an energy policy...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

Barack Obama’s Plan

Reduce the Burden of Rising Gas Prices on Working Families

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Barack Obama has called on the President to enact a second round of economic stimulus to immediately put tax rebates in the pockets of American families to pay for rising energy prices. As president, Obama will enact a tax fairness agenda that provides 150 million workers a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of $500 per person or $1,000 per working family.
Crack Down on Excessive Energy Speculation

Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.Enact a Windfall Profits Tax on the Top Grossing Oil Companies and Ease the Burden on American Families: The oil industry has profited greatly—over $150 billion in 2007—due to global instability fueled by conflict in Iraq, failing domestic fiscal policies that have weakened the U.S. dollar and skyrocketing global demand resulting from a lack of investment in alternatives. Barack Obama supports imposing a windfall profits penalty on oil selling at or over $80 per barrel. Revenue from the proposal will be invested in a number of measures to reduce the burden of rising prices on families.
Require Oil Companies to Use Existing Drilling Leases: The 68 million acres of stockpiled leases have the potential to produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil each day. This would nearly double total U.S. oil production. The Obama plan would force oil and gas companies to either produce or pay a fee on unused federal onshore and offshore leases they are stockpiling.
End Oil and Gas Industry Tax Breaks: Obama has called for repealing the oil and gas industry tax breaks that President Bush himself has said himself are unnecessary given today’s strong market incentive for expanding exploration and production.
Cooperate with Oil Importing Nations to Reduce Demand: As new large oil importing nations come on the market, the United States is at the mercy of an ever more volatile oil market. Obama believes we should use existing organizations, like NATO, to make energy security a shared global goal. We should take steps to engage the largest new consumers, China and India, including by inviting them to join the International Energy Agency.
Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050


Cap and Trade: Obama supports implementation of a market-based cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions by the amount scientists say is necessary: 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050. Obama's cap-and-trade system will require all pollution credits to be auctioned. A 100 percent auction ensures that all polluters pay for every ton of emissions they release, rather than giving these emission rights away to coal and oil companies. Some of the revenue generated by auctioning allowances will be used to support the development of clean energy, to invest in energy efficiency improvements, and to address transition costs, including helping American workers affected by this economic transition.
Confront Deforestation and Promote Carbon Sequestration: Obama will develop domestic incentives that reward forest owners, farmers, and ranchers when they plant trees, restore grasslands, or undertake farming practices that capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.Invest in a Clean Energy Future


Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy: Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants, and begin the transition to a new digital electricity grid. A principal focus of this fund will be devoted to ensuring that technologies that are developed in the U.S. are rapidly commercialized in the U.S. and deployed around the globe.
Double Energy Research and Development Funding: Obama will double science and research funding for clean energy projects including those that make use of our biomass, solar and wind resources.
Invest in a Skilled Clean Technologies Workforce: Obama will use proceeds from the cap-and-trade auction program to invest in job training and transition programs to help workers and industries adapt to clean technology development and production. Obama will also create an energy-focused Green Jobs Corps to connect disconnected and disadvantaged youth with job skills for a high-growth industry.
Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders: Obama will establish a federal investment program to help manufacturing centers modernize and Americans learn the new skills they need to produce green products.
Clean Technologies Deployment Venture Capital Fund: Obama will create a Clean Technologies Venture Capital Fund to fill a critical gap in U.S. technology development. Obama will invest $10 billion per year into this fund for five years. The fund will partner with existing investment funds and our National Laboratories to ensure that promising technologies move beyond the lab and are commercialized in the U.S
Require 25 Percent of Renewable Electricity by 2025: Obama will establish a 25 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 25 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2025.
Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology: Obama will significantly increase the resources devoted to the commercialization and deployment of low-carbon coal technologies. Obama will consider whatever policy tools are necessary, including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities, to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology.Support Next Generation Biofuels


Deploy Cellulosic Ethanol: Obama will invest federal resources, including tax incentives, cash prizes and government contracts into developing the most promising technologies with the goal of getting the first two billion gallons of cellulosic ethanol into the system by 2013.
Expand Locally-Owned Biofuel Refineries: Less than 10 percent of new ethanol production today is from farmer-owned refineries. New ethanol refineries help jumpstart rural economies. Obama will create a number of incentives for local communities to invest in their biofuels refineries.
Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard: Barack Obama will establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard to speed the introduction of low-carbon non-petroleum fuels. The standard requires fuels suppliers to reduce the carbon their fuel emits by ten percent by 2020.
Increase Renewable Fuel Standard: Obama will require 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels to be included in the fuel supply by 2022 and will increase that to at least 60 billion gallons of advanced biofuels like cellulosic ethanol by 2030.Set America on Path to Oil Independence

Obama's plan will reduce oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or 10 million barrels per day, by 2030. This will more than offset the equivalent of the oil we would import from OPEC nations in 2030.

Increase Fuel Economy Standards: Obama will double fuel economy standards within 18 years. His plan will provide retooling tax credits and loan guarantees for domestic auto plants and parts manufacturers, so that they can build new fuel-efficient cars rather than overseas companies. Obama will also invest in advanced vehicle technology such as advanced lightweight materials and new engines.Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030


Set National Building Efficiency Goals: Barack Obama will establish a goal of making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030. He'll also establish a national goal of improving new building efficiency by 50 percent and existing building efficiency by 25 percent over the next decade to help us meet the 2030 goal.
Establish a Grant Program for Early Adopters: Obama will create a competitive grant program to award those states and localities that take the first steps to implement new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.
Invest in a Digital Smart Grid: Obama will pursue a major investment in our utility grid to enable a tremendous increase in renewable generation and accommodate modern energy requirements, such as reliability, smart metering, and distributed storageRestore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change


Create New Forum of Largest Greenhouse Gas Emitters: Obama will create a Global Energy Forum — that includes all G-8 members plus Brazil, China, India, Mexico and South Africa –the largest energy consuming nations from both the developed and developing world. The forum would focus exclusively on global energy and environmental issues.
Re-Engage with the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change: The UNFCCC process is the main international forum dedicated to addressing the climate problem and an Obama administration will work constructively within it.


I like how every item listed is " WILL " , Obama will, in fact , he must be the savior to America's needs.

What Obama fails to mention is the rising taxes he will impose to implement his temporary energy plan. Notice , I said temporary, just as Obama has said, or at least jAZ has said.

Let's see, Taxing to ease the problem or releasing tax burdens to ease the problem ? Which one to choose ? Damn, it really is that tough to decide, isn't it .

It was the likes of the dems, Hilary, BHO, and the likes who said the so called holiday tax breaks the republicans wanted to give was a band aid, but yet Obama wants to give it now by way of another stimulus check ?

Smoke and mirrors ....... Keep up the good work dems.

Not one mention in the saviors plan does it say anything about nuclear plants . Obama doesn't want a real solution, he wants to continue taxing the american people to fund his programs. The way of the democratic ticket is to continue taxing, redistribute the money where they want it to go to. " CONTROL " .... Big Government !

You dems have this hangup that it will take years to see the benefits of drilling, fact is , it will affect the prices right away and benefit in years later. The republican plan to use all available sources is much better than imposing new programs that must be funded by the people. Let's " Save the Planet ", let's get radical about what we should do and forget about what we need to do now. We can't ever get to the future if we don't take care of the present.

When it comes to the better temporary plan to allow ourselves the future, I like the republicans side a little better. Our national debt is so damn high, we are going to go bankrupt with the democrats plan of taxing to fund new programs, plus a universal health care program to boot.

Again, I ask you this ? Taxing to ease the problem or releasing the tax burdens to ease the problem ? Which one to choose ? Damn, it really is that tough to decide, isn't it .

The American people know what to do with their money, use it to help themselves, invest, use accordingly to their needs. We don't need " BIG GOVERNMENT " to tax us and then tell us where to go get it, which damn social program you qualify for.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 08:34 AM
All the talk about offshore drilling and up in Anwar. Why are the oil companies not drilling on the leased property they already have?

Anyone know how many acres of leased land they have contracted?

Anwar is just a talking point to get the masses to believe that is the only place with oil left-it isn't. There are literally MILLIONS of acres ready to be drilled on.

It's also not the only thing we should be doing(drilling), we should also be looking at alternative fuel sources to have a sound approach in reeling in the energy crisis.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 08:36 AM
Thing is, I'm nowhere NEAR 'let's say 3% total,' not on a nationwide scale.
3-7% is an individual potential.
My position is that the OVERWHELMING majority of motorists maintain their cars to a level that, while there may be some tweaking that could be done in tune and inflation, the benefit will be a small fraction of a percent.

You are entitled to your position but as the article states, "efficiency experts" say the numbers are much higher. I dont know your background or why you would think your figures are more accurate than the experts.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 08:36 AM
Anwar is just a talking point to get the masses to believe that is the only place with oil left-it isn't. There are literally MILLIONS of acres ready to be drilled on.

It's also not the only thing we should be doing(drilling), we should also be looking at alternative fuel sources to have a sound approach in reeling in the energy crisis.

Heck we could all drill in our own back yards, gotta be somethin' down there somewheres.

ROYC75
08-05-2008, 08:38 AM
All the talk about offshore drilling and up in Anwar. Why are the oil companies not drilling on the leased property they already have?

Anyone know how many acres of leased land they have contracted?

They have been shut off due to the , " Save The Planet " ways of the majority of dems across the country.

All offshore drilling is capped off, and to get a new drilling in the states is an act of congress, which is tough to get now.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 08:41 AM
Oh noes!! The Chewbacco defense!!

You mean, the use your brain for common sense approach. No, that won't do, we must make all of those who don't conform to big oils approach as wack jobs-that will solve the crisis. Let's use the bury your head in the sand approach that Mccain wants-that'll solve this problem. Let's take campaign money from big oil companies and then be open minded about alternative fuels-that will surely come to fruition.
What a sound plan. I'm sure McCain will not pander to the side that gave him $4 million dollars in donations-he's obviously has everyone's best interest in mind, right?

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 08:42 AM
Heck we could all drill in our own back yards, gotta be somethin' down there somewheres.I know, all of those MILLIONS of acres readily available for drilling just won't do-It's Anwar or bust.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 08:43 AM
You are entitled to your position but as the article states, "efficiency experts" say the numbers are much higher. I dont know your background or why you would think your figures are more accurate than the experts.

Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%.
This is what the experts say, and there's no indication that's a national, as opposed to individual, figure.
Many drivers already follow their advice,
That's my point, except I say overwhelming majority, not many.
but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points.
This is the extrapolated OPINION of the article's author.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 08:45 AM
I know, all of those MILLIONS of acres readily available for drilling just won't do-It's Anwar or bust.

Then there's the no brainer, drill in the reserviors of gas stations. I just BET there's fuel there!!!

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 08:46 AM
Shitstain, take the dick out of my mothers ass.

As soon as I'm done.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 08:49 AM
Then there's the no brainer, drill in the reserviors of gas stations. I just BET there's fuel there!!!I like how you actually addressed what was said, with deflecion, instead of acknowledging that there are MILLIONS of ACRES ready for drilling-Again, that bury your head in the sand approach is really working for us Americans, isn't? You obviously adhere to it, since that's what Mayor McCheese believes in, right?

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 08:49 AM
As soon as I'm done.You really should take that dick out of your mouth, I might be able to understand you better.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 08:50 AM
I like how you actually addressed what was said, with deflecion, instead of acknowledging that there are MILLIONS of ACRES ready for drilling-Again, that bury your head in the sand approach is really working for us Americans, isn't? You obviously adhere to it, since that's what Mayor McCheese believes in, right?

OK, oblique humor isn't working. Do you realize that there is difference between 'reading for drilling' and 'possessing accessible fuel?'

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 08:51 AM
This is what the experts say, and there's no indication that's a national, as opposed to individual, figure.

That's my point, excpet I say overwhelming majority, not many.

This is the extrapolated OPINION of the article's author.

Well said, seriously.

Can we agree that if everyone did this, it would instantly reduce overall consumption?
Can we then agree that any thing we can do now, is better than doing nothing, while waiting for drilling to help?
After all, it isnt one or the other, we need both. Why is this such a silly idea to some people?

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 08:54 AM
I am a moron.


:thumb:

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 08:57 AM
OK, oblique humor isn't working. Do you realize that there is difference between 'reading for drilling' and 'possessing accessible fuel?'
Yes, I fully understand it, but choosing to ignore the millions of acres of leases is not a sound philosophy. We also, should be trying to use alternative fuel sources instead of putting all of our eggs in one basket. Natural Gas is a viable alternative and yet all we hear is Anwar or bust-it's a talking point being exploited for political gain.

Radar Chief
08-05-2008, 08:58 AM
100.

Radar Chief
08-05-2008, 08:59 AM
Oh, and get a digital pressure gauge. Those cheap POS’s with the dial that shoots out are notoriously inaccurate and if you’re running big tires on wide rims like I do on my Jeep they just flat won’t read down to the air pressures needed.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 09:01 AM
:thumb:Speak up, shitstain, that dick in your mouth makes it had to hear what you are saying.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 09:01 AM
Yes, I fully understand it, but choosing to ignore the millions of acres of leases is not a sound philosophy. We also, should be trying to use alternative fuel sources instead of putting all of our eggs in one basket. Natural Gas is a viable alternative and yet all we hear is Anwar or bust-it's a talking point being exploited for political gain.

And again, you do realize there is a difference between 'not drilling' and 'ignoring.'

Oh, and ANWAR isn't offshore.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 09:06 AM
And again, you do realize there is a difference between 'not drilling' and 'ignoring.'
If you aren't drilling for oil, and there is a crisis, then that isn't doing everything you can to resolve the problem, now is it?

I know, it's Anwar or bust, right?

**** natural gas, too, we only have an abundant amount of it and it burns clean. I'm sure the guy that took $4 million in donations from the oil sector will put Americans, first, right? Afterall, he's only had TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS to do something about it and hasn't.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 09:09 AM
If you aren't drilling for oil, and there is a crisis, then that isn't doing everything you can to resolve the problem, now is it?

I know, it's Anwar or bust, right?

**** natural gas, too, we only have an abundant amount of it and it burns clean. I'm sure the guy that took $4 million in donations from the oil sector will put Americans, first, right? Afterall, he's only had TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS to do something about it and hasn't.

So we're in this big crisis, and your solution is to drill everywhere but where the oil is.
What? All that wasted material and energy will boost the economy somehow?

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 09:13 AM
So we're in this big crisis, and your solution is to drill everywhere but where the oil is.Hello, I said Natural Gas and alternative fuels, plus drilling on the leases that are already approved is a decent start to solving the problem. I also would look into tapping the reserves for some relief. I would put in more refining capacity. I would use Wind farms. I would use solar energy. I wouldn't be soley dependent on oil. 70% of the money that we spend on oil doesn't stay in the country-it goes out, thus weakening the dollar. It's not just about energy, it's effecting our economy, too.

markk
08-05-2008, 09:15 AM
isn't this all pretty basic - demand drives supply up, so increase supply. drill anwar, drill offshore, issue more permits to drill domestically on land, give a fuel tax holiday.

that stuff is a short and medium term remedy, in the long term quit wasting money on ethanol and pour huge funding into electric transportation and upgrading electric infrastructure.

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 09:15 AM
So we're in this big crisis, and your solution is to drill everywhere but where the oil is.
What? All that wasted material and energy will boost the economy somehow?


He's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 09:15 AM
It was the likes of the dems, Hilary, BHO, and the likes who said the so called holiday tax breaks the republicans wanted to give was a band aid, but yet Obama wants to give it now by way of another stimulus check ?

A stimulus check will avoid most if not all of the problems with a cut in the gas tax. If you remove the gas tax, it's entirely likely that there will be ZERO impact on the pump price because some combination of the following 3 things will happen.

1) The price of gas will rise by some amount because demand is such that people are willing to pay the price with the gas tax.
2) Any remaining theoretical decrease in price will shrivel away as lower prices increase demand.
3) OPEC will restrict supply to ensure prices don't fall across the board.

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 09:17 AM
A stimulus check will avoid most if not all of the problems with a cut in the gas tax.

A stimulus check will increase demand, thus increasing the price.

markk
08-05-2008, 09:18 AM
Hello, I said Natural Gas and alternative fuels, plus drilling on the leases that are already approved

so if BIG OIL is this group of evil robber-barons, and these leases that are already approved are so rich in oil, and prices are at a historic high, why do you think they have decided to refrain from profit-taking by drilling them?

they'd rather sit around and smoke cigars than make money?

all their oil rig workers out on space missions?

ROYC75
08-05-2008, 09:20 AM
Yes, I fully understand it, but choosing to ignore the millions of acres of leases is not a sound philosophy. We also, should be trying to use alternative fuel sources instead of putting all of our eggs in one basket. Natural Gas is a viable alternative and yet all we hear is Anwar or bust-it's a talking point being exploited for political gain.


The only Anwar or bust I have heard is coming from he democrats. Anwar is not the solution as the dems are trying to label it as. It's part of the temporary solution to the fix we are in . Obama talks about a temporary solution in his plan, we see him talking about the tire pressure issue.

I'll give him credit where credit is due, as Americans, we all can pitch in and slow down, car tune ups ( older models ) , check tire air pressure. Most Americans do this, with the lone exception of slowing down, everybody is always in a hurry to get there quicker.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 09:23 AM
so if BIG OIL is this group of evil robber-barons, and these leases that are already approved are so rich in oil, and prices are at a historic high, why do you think they have decided to refrain from profit-taking by drilling them?

they'd rather sit around and smoke cigars than make money?

all their oil rig workers out on space missions?
Simple, the price of oil was so cheap and Americans kept on going with the staus quo. You do realize that we IMPORT 70% of our oil from overseas, right? If you have less supply, then you have more profits-it's simple economics. The law of supply and demand. Right now , demand exceeds supply, hence the IMPORTING of 70% of our oil consumption.

ROYC75
08-05-2008, 09:24 AM
isn't this all pretty basic - demand drives supply up, so increase supply. drill anwar, drill offshore, issue more permits to drill domestically on land, give a fuel tax holiday.

that stuff is a short and medium term remedy, in the long term quit wasting money on ethanol and pour huge funding into electric transportation and upgrading electric infrastructure.

Hush you, You just might convince a dem to " CHANGE " parties.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 09:24 AM
Simple, the price of oil was so cheap and Americans kept on going with the staus quo. You do realize that we IMPORT 70% of our oil from overseas, right? If you have less supply, then you have more profits-it's simple economics. The law of supply and demand. Right now , demand exceeds supply, hence the IMPORTING of 70% of our oil consumption.

Then why do they want to drill offshore, immutable whale hate?

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 09:25 AM
The only Anwar or bust I have heard is coming from he democrats. Anwar is not the solution as the dems are trying to label it as. It's part of the temporary solution to the fix we are in . Obama talks about a temporary solution in his plan, we see him talking about the tire pressure issue.

I'll give him credit where credit is due, as Americans, we all can pitch in and slow down, car tune ups ( older models ) , check tire air pressure. Most Americans do this, with the lone exception of slowing down, everybody is always in a hurry to get there quicker.

I havent heard the Democrats saying that ANWR is the solution? In fact just the opposite...

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 09:26 AM
I havent heard the Democrats saying that ANWR is the solution? In fact just the opposite...

He's saying that the Democrats are the only ones pretending ANWR is the sole focus of their opponents.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 09:27 AM
The only Anwar or bust I have heard is coming from he democrats. Anwar is not the solution as the dems are trying to label it as. It's part of the temporary solution to the fix we are in . Obama talks about a temporary solution in his plan, we see him talking about the tire pressure issue.

I'll give him credit where credit is due, as Americans, we all can pitch in and slow down, car tune ups ( older models ) , check tire air pressure. Most Americans do this, with the lone exception of slowing down, everybody is always in a hurry to get there quicker.Actually, I've seen a huge slow down in the way that people travel these days. I'm on the road almost everyday and there is a noticeable difference in the "speeders" and even the amount of people traveking has decreased.

Anwar, is actually the Republicans putting the solution to our problems in a pretty little box known as Anwar. Yes, it would most definitely increase production, it hardly the answer to a climbing energy crisis. Alternative fuels, put us back in the driver's seat, not the other way around.

markk
08-05-2008, 09:28 AM
Simple, the price of oil was so cheap and Americans kept on going with the staus quo. You do realize that we IMPORT 70% of our oil from overseas, right? If you have less supply, then you have more profits-it's simple economics. The law of supply and demand. Right now , demand exceeds supply, hence the IMPORTING of 70% of our oil consumption.

what the blazes are you talking about?

the anti-drilling crowd keeps saying that we can't drill our way to lower prices. So, it then follows that Big Oil would want to drill every drop they can find and cash in while prices are at historic highs since more drilling will not reduce price - they should want to extract as much as possible before the environmental spec summer blends are gone and the price drops in the fall and winter months.

so... are they just too lazy to drill it?

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 09:30 AM
He's saying that the Democrats are the only ones pretending ANWR is the sole focus of their opponents.

Ahh, got it.

I say, drill anywhere there is oil. In the mean time develop alternate sources. Waiting for other sources and not allowing drilling isnt working, unless you are part of OPEC.

RJ
08-05-2008, 09:31 AM
Then why do they want to drill offshore, immutable whale hate?


They just want us to get them a little bit closer

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 09:32 AM
Ahh, got it.

I say, drill anywhere there is oil. In the mean time develop alternate sources. Waiting for other sources and not allowing drilling isnt working, unless you are part of OPEC.

Evidently Pelosi has decided we don't deserve it until she solidifies her majority and The One is president.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 09:33 AM
Then why do they want to drill offshore, immutable whale hate?That question is meaningless. Why do they want to drill in the gulf? To produce more oil obviously. It still doesn't solve the problem. It MAY add relief, it may not, but the bottom line is, we must seek alternative fuel sources and quit being reliant on other countries for our energy needs. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

Drilling for more oil just continues the process of being reliant on a volatile commodity and hardly finds a solution to our problems.

ROYC75
08-05-2008, 09:34 AM
I havent heard the Democrats saying that ANWR is the solution? In fact just the opposite...

OK, follow along here, it's the dems that have labeled the republicans saying that Anwar is the answer. I recall no republicans saying that Anwar is the solution, but only that it is part of the solution.

Many fans and politicians of the democratic party are the ones bashing and labeling the republicans that Anwar is the solution .

Does this help or do you have more spin that needs clarifying ?

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 09:35 AM
OK, follow along here, it's the dems that have labeled the republicans saying that Anwar is the answer. I recall no republicans saying that Anwar is the solution, but only that it is part of the solution.

Many fans and politicians of the democratic party are the ones bashing and labeling the republicans that Anwar is the solution .

Does this help or do you have more spin that needs clarifying ?

He got it, HE GOT IT!!!!

Note to Roy - don't berate them right when they start to agree with you.

RJ
08-05-2008, 09:36 AM
I'll give him credit where credit is due, as Americans, we all can pitch in and slow down, car tune ups ( older models ) , check tire air pressure. Most Americans do this, with the lone exception of slowing down, everybody is always in a hurry to get there quicker.



This is something that was puzzling me. It seems like asking people to inflate tires properly, slow down, lower thermostats, etc., would be right up the conservative alley - personal responsibility and all that. It's something that every man, woman and child can help with and requires no government involvement. I was surprised that the right met the idea like it was the kookiest thing anyone ever said. Well, maybe not surprised......

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 09:37 AM
what the blazes are you talking about?

the anti-drilling crowd keeps saying that we can't drill our way to lower prices. So, it then follows that Big Oil would want to drill every drop they can find and cash in while prices are at historic highs since more drilling will not reduce price - they should want to extract as much as possible before the environmental spec summer blends are gone and the price drops in the fall and winter months.

so... are they just too lazy to drill it?No, when you have record profits, because DEMAND OUTWEIGHS SUPPPLY, you continue to make the huge profits. More oil means more suppply, which means less cost. If you were making record profits, would you increase production and saturate the market to drive your profits down?

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 09:37 AM
OK, follow along here, it's the dems that have labeled the republicans saying that Anwar is the answer. I recall no republicans saying that Anwar is the solution, but only that it is part of the solution.

Many fans and politicians of the democratic party are the ones bashing and labeling the republicans that Anwar is the solution .

Does this help or do you have more spin that needs clarifying ?

No need to be an ass, BabyLee already clarified.

By the way I hate Pelosi, she represents all that is wrong with politics!

ROYC75
08-05-2008, 09:39 AM
Evidently Pelosi has decided we don't deserve it until she solidifies her majority and The One is president.

Bingo, but she will have to address this again when congress comes back in Sept. Ignoring the vote this time only caused her more hardship on Obama. Americans are wanting relief from the prices now, holding off the vote is not going to help her any, nor Obama not wanting to drill, or lift the ban to lower cost now, How's that for " CHANGE".

That's your pocket change .........

StcChief
08-05-2008, 09:39 AM
throw in a new Air Filter, Fuel filter, and a fancy,smancy magnetic thingy that imrpoves fuel economy too....... :rolleyes:

ROYC75
08-05-2008, 09:40 AM
He got it, HE GOT IT!!!!

Note to Roy - don't berate them right when they start to agree with you.

I started to type it , got delayed at work and then finished it up. By then, you had addressed it.......

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 09:40 AM
This is something that was puzzling me. It seems like asking people to inflate tires properly, slow down, lower thermostats, etc., would be right up the conservative alley - personal responsibility and all that. It's something that every man, woman and child can help with and requires no government involvement. I was surprised that the right met the idea like it was the kookiest thing anyone ever said. Well, maybe not surprised......

The kooky part is that it assumes we're not already substantially complying, and when we finally do there's gonna be these huge gains. People have, by and large, substantially maximized their efficiency already. We're not all riding around on flat tires, blowing black smoke out the tailpipe, with the AC on high and the windows down.

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 09:45 AM
This is something that was puzzling me. It seems like asking people to inflate tires properly, slow down, lower thermostats, etc., would be right up the conservative alley - personal responsibility and all that. It's something that every man, woman and child can help with and requires no government involvement. I was surprised that the right met the idea like it was the kookiest thing anyone ever said. Well, maybe not surprised......

I just thought the way that B.O. said it was in a condescending way. He said it like it was something profound.

And he did add that "we won't even need to drill if we just do those things (check the air and tune ups)" which is ridiculous.

It was an out of touch thing to say.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 09:51 AM
I just thought the way that B.O. said it was in a condescending way. He said it like it was something profound.

And he did add that "we won't even need to drill if we just do those things (check the air and tune ups)" which is ridiculous.

It was an out of touch thing to say.

There isnt much we can do to immediately impact the problem. These are things that will. They are not ridiculous nor out of touch. Offering them up as the only solution would be ridiculous. That wasnt the case.

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 09:58 AM
There isnt much we can do to immediately impact the problem. These are things that will. They are not ridiculous nor out of touch. Offering them up as the only solution would be ridiculous. That wasnt the case.


Dude, it might have been news to you, but I've known that since autobody shop 25 years ago.

Do you think B.O. has ever looked under the hood of a car? :rolleyes:

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 09:58 AM
There isnt much we can do to immediately impact the problem. These are things that will. They are not ridiculous nor out of touch. Offering them up as the only solution would be ridiculous. That wasnt the case.

It's not that Obama is saying this is the only solution. He's saying that it's a solution that will [ostensibly by itself] be MORE EFFECTIVE than offshore drilling. He's the one who made the one to one comparison.

RJ
08-05-2008, 10:01 AM
The kooky part is that it assumes we're not already substantially complying, and when we finally do there's gonna be these huge gains. People have, by and large, substantially maximized their efficiency already. We're not all riding around on flat tires, blowing black smoke out the tailpipe, with the AC on high and the windows down.



Yes, that's exactly right. And it's working. Our consumption is going down, proving that it's not a crazy idea at all.

Obviously he's not saying that tire pressure is the solution to the problem. But people taking personal responsibility is at least part of the solution. I don't see why that's such a big joke. I wouldn't be laughing if McCain had said the same thing. I'd think he was correct.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 10:03 AM
Yes, that's exactly right. And it's working. Our consumption is going down, proving that it's not a crazy idea at all.

Obviously he's not saying that tire pressure is the solution to the problem. But people taking personal responsibility is at least part of the solution. I don't see why that's such a big joke. I wouldn't be laughing if McCain had said the same thing. I'd think he was correct.

Again, he's not suggesting this in a vacuum. He's suggesting that if we do this [like we haven't already], it'll eclipse gains realized from offshore drilling.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 10:04 AM
A stimulus check will increase demand, thus increasing the price.

The current price of gas is what is reducing demand. The cut in gas specific tax would theoretically lower prices which would increase demand and restore prices. A stimulus check will not directly impact the pump price of gas at all. So with pump prices remaining higher, demand will remain similarly fixed.

Now a nominal portion of the rebate might be spent on gas, but it will also be spent on paying off debt, buying HDTVs, getting your car a tuneup, and just about everything else you can spend money on besides additional gas.

The rebate check is superior in it's benefits to the public than a gas tax holiday because gas prices are so in-elastic.

RJ
08-05-2008, 10:04 AM
Dude, it might have been news to you, but I've known that since autobody shop 25 years ago.

Do you think B.O. has ever looked under the hood of a car? :rolleyes:



Seriously........how often do you think the average person checks their tire pressure?

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 10:05 AM
It's not that Obama is saying this is the only solution. He's saying that it's a solution that will [ostensibly by itself] be MORE EFFECTIVE than offshore drilling. He's the one who made the one to one comparison.

The only part of his Obamas statement I dont agree with is, "if we do these things we dont need to drill." I disagree, we need to do both. It will be more effective than drilling, in the immediate.

markk
08-05-2008, 10:06 AM
Seriously........how often do you think the average person checks their tire pressure?

the average person pays for oil changes, and all the shops I know of check the tire pressure at that time.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 10:07 AM
Dude, it might have been news to you, but I've known that since autobody shop 25 years ago.

Do you think B.O. has ever looked under the hood of a car? :rolleyes:

You must have missed the post where I said I own an automotive repair shop. I would go as far as to say, 80% of my customers never check their tire pressures.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 10:09 AM
the average person pays for oil changes, and all the shops I know of check the tire pressure at that time.

Shops do, but quick lubes dont. Most people frequent quick lubes for their oil changes.

markk
08-05-2008, 10:10 AM
Shops do, but quick lubes dont. Most people frequent quick lubes for their oil changes.

The one I use does. So do the corporate chain places.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 10:10 AM
the average person pays for oil changes, and all the shops I know of check the tire pressure at that time.

That means if the shop is good, it happens once every 4-5 months at best.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 10:12 AM
The only part of his Obamas statement I dont agree with is, "if we do these things we dont need to drill." I disagree, we need to do both. It will be more effective than drilling, in the immediate.

And I guess where we're talking past each other is I view that as the sole motivation behind the statement. I mean it was in response to a query regarding his position on drilling.

Kind of like saying I liked The Godfather, except for all the mafia stuff.

RJ
08-05-2008, 10:15 AM
the average person pays for oil changes, and all the shops I know of check the tire pressure at that time.


So the average person gets their tire pressure checked about every 5000-7000 miles?

Is that good? I really don't know if it is or not.

Hopefully this thread will morph into one on auto maintenance.

RJ
08-05-2008, 10:17 AM
And I guess where we're talking past each other is I view that as the sole motivation behind the statement. I mean it was in response to a query regarding his position on drilling.

Kind of like saying I liked The Godfather, except for all the mafia stuff.


But didn't he already say he'd compromise on offshore drilling? I thought he got slammed for that last week.

mlyonsd
08-05-2008, 10:17 AM
The electricity alone for constantly powering all those air compressors will cause global warming to increase so fast you'll be able to hike to the top of Mt. Everest in your shorts by 2010.

HonestChieffan
08-05-2008, 10:18 AM
Mine are checked every time I start the car

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 10:18 AM
And I guess where we're talking past each other is I view that as the sole motivation behind the statement. I mean it was in response to a query regarding his position on drilling.

Kind of like saying I liked The Godfather, except for all the mafia stuff.

There is probably something to that. I suppose he is, in a way, defending his position against drilling while also opening up to the idea of drilling.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 10:20 AM
But didn't he already say he'd compromise on offshore drilling? I thought he got slammed for that last week.

Not by itself, IIRC. He'd consider putting drilling in play if doing so got him a suitable package of other measures in return.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 10:20 AM
Mine are checked every time I start the car

And the reason the federal government made it mandatory that all cars have tire pressure monitors... to save fuel and make tires last much longer.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 10:24 AM
Not by itself, IIRC. He'd consider putting drilling in play if doing so got him a suitable package of other measures in return.
What's wrong with give and take? Compromise is always a good thing when trying to find resolve.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 10:26 AM
What's wrong with give and take? Compromise is always a good thing when trying to find resolve.

Did I SAY there was anything wrong with it Scrappy Doo?

http://croutonboy.typepad.com/photos/people_i_hate/scrappy.jpg

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 10:29 AM
What I'm getting at, he actually does have a sound energy policy and some act as if the tire plan is his only plan. hence, the tire gauge you can buy from McCain's camp for $25.00. It's just juvenille shit from the McCain camp and I expect better from a potential world leader.

mikey23545
08-05-2008, 10:33 AM
Obama is still retarded.

Obviously, you do both.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 10:34 AM
Did I SAY there was anything wrong with it Scrappy Doo?

http://croutonboy.typepad.com/photos/people_i_hate/scrappy.jpg
Did you say anything meaningful? No.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 10:35 AM
The electricity alone for constantly powering all those air compressors will cause global warming to increase so fast you'll be able to hike to the top of Mt. Everest in your shorts by 2010.

ROFL

There's truth to that. The only way to move forward substantively on this issue is investment in research. That can be jumpstarted in the private sector R&D tax credits, fuel standards and in public/private partnership through research funds. That is to say, an apollo project on renewable domestic energy.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 10:36 AM
What I'm getting at, he actually does have a sound energy policy and some act as if the tire plan is his only plan. hence, the tire gauge you can buy from McCain's camp for $25.00. It's just juvenille shit from the McCain camp and I expect better from a potential world leader.

It's not that people think it's his only plan, it's that he believes that that particular measure would do more than offshore drilling. It suggests flippancy, unseriousness, and a lack of comprehension of economies of scale.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 10:37 AM
Mine are checked every time I start the car

Welcome to the world of 1/10 of 1%.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 10:37 AM
Did you say anything meaningful? No.

That's not for you to decide, Scrappy. RJ asked a question and I answered it.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 10:39 AM
It's not that people think it's his only plan, it's that he believes that that particular measure would do more than offshore drilling. It suggests flippancy, unseriousness, and a lack of comprehension of economies of scale.

It puts offshore drilling into the proper (marginal) context. Nothing more.

Obama's said from day 1 that the only solution is comprehensive one. To not make that the focus of substantive discussion is to make yourself a Rove-bot who's only effort is to exploit any distraction possible.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 10:41 AM
It's not that people think it's his only plan, it's that he believes that that particular measure would do more than offshore drilling. It suggests flippancy, unseriousness, and a lack of comprehension of economies of scale.It would suggest that, if he DID NOT have a sound energy policy to go hand and hand with what he said. However, he DOES have an energy plan, thus negating the fixation on one of his comments. To suggest his isn't serious about this makes you uninformed of said policy or unwilling to admit that there is more to it than just proper tire pressure. Looks like another mountain being made out of a molehill, by Mayor McCheese.

StcChief
08-05-2008, 10:44 AM
Air Station (small compressor) in my garage. Check weekly. seasonal changes are more likely to cause variations in pressure. Check them cold.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 10:45 AM
Obama is still retarded.

Obviously, you do both.

Tell that to the Republicans who have decided that politically, it's beneficial to have a laser focus on off-shore drilling exclusively.

jAZ
08-05-2008, 10:48 AM
Air Station (small compressor) in my garage. Check weekly. seasonal changes are more likely to cause variations in pressure. Check them cold.
I think most people don't think about it unless the tire is visibly flat, and otherwise only have it addressed if and when they take the car in for an oil change.

Sadly, I think it's seen as a dirty, cumbersome, and relateively time consuming process. The risk/reward of getting black marks on your clothes or having to wash your hands just before you hare hopping in the car to head to work, etc. Is greater than the benefit of having confidence your tire is at it's optimal pressure.

Chief Henry
08-05-2008, 10:52 AM
How many numb skulls went out and checked there air pressure in there tires after Barry
told them to ? The same ones that will vote for Barry. Most people don't need to be told to check the air pressure. Its common sense stuff that needs no explaining.

This is an unbeleavable thread.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 10:58 AM
How many numb skulls went out and checked there air pressure in there tires after Barry
told them to ? The same ones that will vote for Barry. Most people don't need to be told to check the air pressure. Its common sense stuff that needs no explaining.

This is an unbeleavable thread.And yet MILLIONS of Americans go on driving with bad tire pressure, each and every day.

Again, this isn't Obama's entire policy, just one thing, in which he is showing Americans that conservation can a play a role in consumption. How some can find fault in that, is moronic.

Radar Chief
08-05-2008, 11:02 AM
It puts offshore drilling into the proper (marginal) context. Nothing more.

Obama's said from day 1 that the only solution is comprehensive one. To not make that the focus of substantive discussion is to make yourself a Rove-bot who's only effort is to exploit any distraction possible.

You mean like talking about tire air pressure when the question was about drilling for oil? That kind of “Rove-bot distraction”?

Chief Henry
08-05-2008, 11:04 AM
And yet MILLIONS of Americans go on driving with bad tire pressure, each and every day.

Again, this isn't Obama's entire policy, just one thing, in which he is showing Americans that conservation can a play a role in consumption. How some can find fault in that, is moronic.

Who needs to be told to check there air pressure ? Evidently Obama
voters need to be told. Because in your own words, MILLIONS of people are driving around with low air pressure in there tires :doh!:

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 11:05 AM
How many numb skulls went out and checked there air pressure in there tires after Barry
told them to ? The same ones that will vote for Barry. Most people don't need to be told to check the air pressure. Its common sense stuff that needs no explaining.

This is an unbeleavable thread.

Unless the tire is noticeably flat, hardly anyone checks. Thus the point, improperly inflated.
In fact, the problem is so bad that the Federal Government had to pass a law requiring manufacturers to equip all vehicles with a tire pressure monitoring system. Common sense isnt so common.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 11:11 AM
Who needs to be told to check there air pressure ? Evidently Obama
voters need to be told. Because in your own words, MILLIONS of people are driving around with low air pressure in there tires :doh!:
Didn't you get the memo, only Democrats drive around with bad tire pressure.

Some of you are so quick to point fingers at others instead of actually seeing the merit in what was said. Obama is absolutely right, proper tire pressure DOES help with fuel effeciency. There is no flaw to what was said, only simple-minded people that try to read into this as more than what it was.

Chief Henry
08-05-2008, 11:21 AM
Didn't you get the memo, only Democrats drive around with bad tire pressure.

Some of you are so quick to point fingers at others instead of actually seeing the merit in what was said. Obama is absolutely right, proper tire pressure DOES help with fuel effeciency. There is no flaw to what was said, only simple-minded people that try to read into this as more than what it was.

Only simple minded people don't check there air pressure in there tires...:rolleyes:

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 11:22 AM
Only simple minded people don't check there air pressure in there tires...:rolleyes:

See post #173.

RJ
08-05-2008, 11:27 AM
The electricity alone for constantly powering all those air compressors will cause global warming to increase so fast you'll be able to hike to the top of Mt. Everest in your shorts by 2010.



That's great, cause shorts or no shorts, I sure as hell would never make it to the top today!!

If I'd known global warming would get me in shape I'd have been in favor of it years ago.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 11:27 AM
Obama is absolutely right, proper tire pressure DOES help with fuel effeciency.
To posit that that was the point of Obama's statement, at this point in the discussion, is a pretty frank insight into your own estimation of how the balance of the debate has gone.

Chief Henry
08-05-2008, 11:35 AM
See post #173.

see post 175

mlyonsd
08-05-2008, 11:38 AM
ROFL

There's truth to that. The only way to move forward substantively on this issue is investment in research. That can be jumpstarted in the private sector R&D tax credits, fuel standards and in public/private partnership through research funds. That is to say, an apollo project on renewable domestic energy.

Right. I think we agree on that.

mlyonsd
08-05-2008, 11:38 AM
That's great, cause shorts or no shorts, I sure as hell would never make it to the top today!!

If I'd known global warming would get me in shape I'd have been in favor of it years ago.

When all the ice melts it will only be about a 300 foot climb.

Hog Farmer
08-05-2008, 11:41 AM
You people kill me.

You think we kill you, wait until Obama's president!

RJ
08-05-2008, 11:43 AM
When all the ice melts it will only be about a 300 foot climb.



So I guess the picture of me standing at the top won't be so impressive.

Bummer.

On a positive note, I'll save a ton of money on sherpas.

BigChiefFan
08-05-2008, 11:49 AM
To posit that that was the point of Obama's statement, at this point in the discussion, is a pretty frank insight into your own estimation of how the balance of the debate has gone.Yea, it shows me, that you people don't have leg to stand on in your argument, so you attempt to blow things out of preportion in hopes it sways others to your political affiliation.

Radar Chief
08-05-2008, 11:56 AM
When all the ice melts it will only be about a 300 foot climb.

And Kansas will again have ocean front property. It's a win-win. :thumb:

markk
08-05-2008, 12:14 PM
Yea, it shows me, that you people don't have leg to stand on in your argument, so you attempt to blow things out of preportion in hopes it sways others to your political affiliation.

ROFL

this guy may be utterly clueless, but you have to admire his dedication.

and "preportion" is funny.

***SPRAYER
08-05-2008, 12:20 PM
ROFL

this guy may be utterly clueless, but you have to admire his dedication.

and "preportion" is funny.


:Elvis:

ROYC75
08-05-2008, 12:23 PM
The Obama plan , Vote for me , " CHANGE " We can believe in ........

" You better keep plenty of change around in your car to air them tires up with ." :D

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 12:35 PM
The Obama plan , Vote for me , " CHANGE " We can believe in ........

" You better keep plenty of change around in your car to air them tires up with ." :D

Or leave your tires low and use it on Gas...

penchief
08-05-2008, 12:38 PM
I thought it was a mistake for the McCain campaign to mock Obama over this because the very people that know how important a tune-up and tire pressure are consists of people who are in the know about it (mechanics, auto buffs, etc.) and people who benefit from taking those measures (the working class stiff, do-it-yourselfer, etc).

The working stiff and the redneck vote are crucial to McCain if he is going to win. And being able to recognize the fallacy of such pettiness is not in the best interest of a campaign that is banking on emotional appeals and personal atttacks to save the day. He might as well have called alot of the people he's trying to appeal to, "dumbasses."

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 12:59 PM
I thought it was a mistake for the McCain campaign to mock Obama over this because the very people that know how important a tune-up and tire pressure are consists of people who are in the know about it (mechanics, auto buffs, etc.) and people who benefit from taking those measures (the working class stiff, do-it-yourselfer, etc).

The working stiff and the redneck vote are crucial to McCain if he is going to win. And being able to recognize the fallacy of such pettiness is not in the best interest of a campaign that is banking on emotional appeals and personal atttacks to save the day. He might as well have called alot of the people he's trying to appeal to, "dumbasses."

Those are the same people who are already doing [and probably everyone they know are already doing] what Obama says we need to do.

SBK
08-05-2008, 01:03 PM
You mean like talking about tire air pressure when the question was about drilling for oil? That kind of “Rove-bot distraction”?

I'm thinking about changing my name to rovebot.

markk
08-05-2008, 01:06 PM
conservatives were already checking their tire pressure. they are more inclined to try to remedy a problem themselves than to immediately scream for government to make the problem go away.

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 01:09 PM
conservatives were already checking their tire pressure. they are more inclined to try to remedy a problem themselves than to immediately scream for government to make the problem go away.

Hahahaha, Hahahahaha, HahahahaROFL

HolmeZz
08-05-2008, 01:10 PM
conservatives were already checking their tire pressure. they are more inclined to try to remedy a problem themselves than to immediately scream for government to make the problem go away.

So Obama is a conservative for mentioning self-responsibility and the Republicans are liberal for wanting the government to drill for oil?

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 01:13 PM
So Obama is a conservative for mentioning self-responsibility and the Republicans are liberal for wanting the government to drill for oil?

Yeah, that struck me as funny too.

markk
08-05-2008, 01:17 PM
So Obama is a conservative for mentioning self-responsibility and the Republicans are liberal for wanting the government to drill for oil?

Why on earth would the government be drilling for oil?

RJ
08-05-2008, 01:24 PM
conservatives were already checking their tire pressure. they are more inclined to try to remedy a problem themselves than to immediately scream for government to make the problem go away.



Dude, did you type that with a straight face?

bkkcoh
08-05-2008, 01:29 PM
Why on earth would the government be drilling for oil?

Hadn't you heard that the dems want to take over the oil industry?

Hydrae
08-05-2008, 01:32 PM
Wow, what a thread. And you all wonder why we don't get anything done at the Congressional level when we can't even seem to figure out what the problem is amongst ourselves.

If tire pressure is an issue as stated in the OP, why don't cars track that themselves automatically? I have wondered this one for a while. Airplanes has systems to keep their tires inflated to the proper levels, it can not be that hard. I know my dad's Lincoln had a compressor in the trunk to increase or decrease the pressure in the back shocks to help handle heavier loads. I see no reason why this could not be connected with the tires themselves. It would increase tire wear (decreasing the amount of tires hitting the landfills) as well as improve the overall mileage of the country.

mlyonsd
08-05-2008, 01:32 PM
Ok, here's the deal.

I haven't checked the tire pressure in my highway car since about January. I drive about 100-110 miles per day 5 days a week.

At my next fill up I'll start checking my fuel mileage. I'll run two full tanks of gas through and then fill up my tires, then repeat the test.

I'll report back what I find. Should take about 2 weeks. By the looks of it this thread might even still be at the top.

dirk digler
08-05-2008, 01:38 PM
Ok, here's the deal.

I haven't checked the tire pressure in my highway car since about January. I drive about 100-110 miles per day 5 days a week.

At my next fill up I'll start checking my fuel mileage. I'll run two full tanks of gas through and then fill up my tires, then repeat the test.

I'll report back what I find. Should take about 2 weeks. By the looks of it this thread might even still be at the top.

That is a great idea and I will be interested in what you find.

Honestly I never check my tires except every 3 months or so and they are never low. I guess I am lucky.

HolmeZz
08-05-2008, 01:44 PM
Why on earth would the government be drilling for oil?

Don't be an idiot. You're being dependent on the government when you whine about the need for off-shore drilling fixing our problems.

Radar Chief
08-05-2008, 01:44 PM
That is a great idea and I will be interested in what you find.

Honestly I never check my tires except every 3 months or so and they are never low. I guess I am lucky.


Your tires aren’t going to just loose air for no reason. If your tires are droping more than a PSI or two a month you’ve got a leak somewhere.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-05-2008, 01:51 PM
It's not that people think it's his only plan, it's that he believes that that particular measure would do more than offshore drilling. It suggests flippancy, unseriousness, and a lack of comprehension of economies of scale.

What a pile of unmitigated horseshit.

Let's talk about economies of scale:

First of all, the oil companies are currently sitting on 68 million acres of available public lands that can be used for drilling. These lands are estimated to contain up to 34 billion barrels of oil, which is multiple times more than either ANWR or OCS.

If the oil companies really wanted to drill, they would do so on the millions and millions of acres that they already have access to that are

#1) Much cheaper to drill on
#2) Already under their own control

You know how much it costs to rent an offshore rig? About 500-700 K per day. Per day. It's a far less stable platform to drill from with far more variables and potential for problems.

You have the audacity to say that Obama is being flippant because he dismisses the potential of these untapped sources, when the fact of the matter is that they offer such an insignificant amount of oil compared to our consumption that merely inflating your tires would provide more benefit to the individual user if they would do so.

I would like to know what exactly is pragmatic about trying to drill for oil in the f*cking ocean when you already have more available land that has a richer supply.

It's a land grab, nothing more, nothing less.

I know that you like to fancy yourself as someone who thinks outside the box, but you've shown yourself recently to be nothing more than a more hateful and sardonic version of HCF.

Radar Chief
08-05-2008, 01:51 PM
Wow, what a thread. And you all wonder why we don't get anything done at the Congressional level when we can't even seem to figure out what the problem is amongst ourselves.

If tire pressure is an issue as stated in the OP, why don't cars track that themselves automatically? I have wondered this one for a while. Airplanes has systems to keep their tires inflated to the proper levels, it can not be that hard. I know my dad's Lincoln had a compressor in the trunk to increase or decrease the pressure in the back shocks to help handle heavier loads. I see no reason why this could not be connected with the tires themselves. It would increase tire wear (decreasing the amount of tires hitting the landfills) as well as improve the overall mileage of the country.

Expense.
Would you be willing to pay an extra, lets say, $3K, or so, for a passenger vehicle equiped with a monitoring system that did what you could do with first a visual inspection then if need be putting a gauge to it?

Hydrae
08-05-2008, 02:00 PM
Expense.
Would you be willing to pay an extra, lets say, $3K, or so, for a passenger vehicle equiped with a monitoring system that did what you could do with first a visual inspection then if need be putting a gauge to it?

But people aren't doing this now. At least that is the impression given in the OP. Isn't it obvious we need to take this responsibility away from the people who are failing at this now? ;)

HonestChieffan
08-05-2008, 02:06 PM
Wow, what a thread. And you all wonder why we don't get anything done at the Congressional level when we can't even seem to figure out what the problem is amongst ourselves.

If tire pressure is an issue as stated in the OP, why don't cars track that themselves automatically? I have wondered this one for a while. Airplanes has systems to keep their tires inflated to the proper levels, it can not be that hard. I know my dad's Lincoln had a compressor in the trunk to increase or decrease the pressure in the back shocks to help handle heavier loads. I see no reason why this could not be connected with the tires themselves. It would increase tire wear (decreasing the amount of tires hitting the landfills) as well as improve the overall mileage of the country.



Mine tracks it real time, i can see the pressure pushing one button, and Onstar checks it daily.

Radar Chief
08-05-2008, 02:13 PM
But people aren't doing this now. At least that is the impression given in the OP. Isn't it obvious we need to take this responsibility away from the people who are failing at this now? ;)

Indeed. :thumb:

chiefforlife
08-05-2008, 02:15 PM
Mine tracks it real time, i can see the pressure pushing one button, and Onstar checks it daily.

Exactly, the reason they had to come up with this system is because people are NOT doing it themselves! Which is why Obama suggested it. It really isnt that hard to understand people.

penchief
08-05-2008, 02:15 PM
Those are the same people who are already doing [and probably everyone they know are already doing] what Obama says we need to do.

Still doesn't help to mock their actions.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 05:04 PM
Still doesn't help to mock their actions.

They're not mocking the responsible car owner, they're mocking the guy who thinks he just invented sliced bread by telling us to check our tire inflation levels.
Mocking Obama's calculus isn't mocking the actions of people who are responsible about their cars. What is mocking is to posit that there are these unwashed masses who had no idea to keep their cars in working order until Obama told us to.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 05:08 PM
What a pile of unmitigated horseshit.

Let's talk about economies of scale:

First of all, the oil companies are currently sitting on 68 million acres of available public lands that can be used for drilling. These lands are estimated to contain up to 34 billion barrels of oil, which is multiple times more than either ANWR or OCS.

If the oil companies really wanted to drill, they would do so on the millions and millions of acres that they already have access to that are

#1) Much cheaper to drill on
#2) Already under their own control

You know how much it costs to rent an offshore rig? About 500-700 K per day. Per day. It's a far less stable platform to drill from with far more variables and potential for problems.

You have the audacity to say that Obama is being flippant because he dismisses the potential of these untapped sources, when the fact of the matter is that they offer such an insignificant amount of oil compared to our consumption that merely inflating your tires would provide more benefit to the individual user if they would do so.

I would like to know what exactly is pragmatic about trying to drill for oil in the f*cking ocean when you already have more available land that has a richer supply.

It's a land grab, nothing more, nothing less.

I know that you like to fancy yourself as someone who thinks outside the box, but you've shown yourself recently to be nothing more than a more hateful and sardonic version of HCF.

First off, though I know the thought fuels your passionate rage, but I've not been hateful in the least here, unless you try to count snide retorts to people who are being purposefully obtuse. Even then it's not hateful.

To the point. You assert large amounts of easily obtainable oil. I'd appreciate the facts and figures to back that up before we continue. If you can establish that we can get more cheaper on existent contracts, we have something to discuss otherwise, not so much.

We've already had the circular reasoning that Big Oil doesn't want to put all that cheap oil they already have on the market because they love the high prices, but they're aching to put all that hard to access expensive offshore oil on the market so they can take advantage of high prices. Yeah, that was pretty much a bust.

penchief
08-05-2008, 05:11 PM
They're not mocking the responsible car owner, they're mocking the guy who thinks he just invented sliced bread by telling us to check our tire inflation levels.
Mocking Obama's calculus isn't mocking the actions of people who are responsible about their cars. What is mocking is to posit that there are these unwashed masses who had no idea to keep their cars in working order until Obama told us to.

That may be true but doesn't the data back up the assertion that by keeping our tires inflated and our cars tuned up that America will save more barrels of oil per day than increased off-shore drilling can provide? That makes the point relevant, if you ask me.

The gist of my comments is that republicans will mock anything if they think that belittling their opposition will lead to success. Does anyone remember how childish Cheney, Rove, and Fleischer came accross when the dressed up in duck-hunting outfits the day before the 2004 election in order to mock in Kerry one last time? That should have told us all right then and there what kind of petty small-minded people they were, and exactly what the republican party stands for.

And we're witnessing a repeat performance again in 2008.

JMO

penchief
08-05-2008, 05:16 PM
They're not mocking the responsible car owner, they're mocking the guy who thinks he just invented sliced bread by telling us to check our tire inflation levels.
Mocking Obama's calculus isn't mocking the actions of people who are responsible about their cars. What is mocking is to posit that there are these unwashed masses who had no idea to keep their cars in working order until Obama told us to.

By the way, I still think that a lot of people will take McCain's mockery of Obama and think that McCain is the one that is not in touch. But again, that is just my opinion.

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 05:16 PM
That may be true but doesn't the data back up the assertion that by keeping our tires inflated and our cars tuned up that America will save more barrels of oil per day than increased off-shore drilling can provide? That makes the point relevant, if you ask me.

The gist of my comments is that republicans will mock anything if they think that belittling their opposition will lead to success. Does anyone remember how childish Cheney, Rove, and Fleischer came accross when the dressed up in duck-hunting outfits the day before the 2004 election in order to mock in Kerry one last time? That should have told us all right then and there what kind of petty small-minded people they were, and exactly what the republican party stands for.

And we're witnessing a repeat performance again in 2008.

JMO

Have you read the thread, my position, firmly held is that the data will NOT back that up.

penchief
08-05-2008, 05:20 PM
Have you read the thread, my position, firmly held is that the data will NOT back that up.

No, not the entire thread. However, is it possible that you may not be holding the correct position?

Baby Lee
08-05-2008, 05:28 PM
No, not the entire thread. However, is it possible that you may not be holding the correct position?

217 posts going over this, and you're going to play the 'is there any possibility you're wrong?' card?

Sure, it's possible. But let's take a little time, ruminate on the arguments and come back with a reasoned critique thereafter.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-05-2008, 06:26 PM
First off, though I know the thought fuels your passionate rage, but I've not been hateful in the least here, unless you try to count snide retorts to people who are being purposefully obtuse. Even then it's not hateful.

To the point. You assert large amounts of easily obtainable oil. I'd appreciate the facts and figures to back that up before we continue. If you can establish that we can get more cheaper on existent contracts, we have something to discuss otherwise, not so much.

We've already had the circular reasoning that Big Oil doesn't want to put all that cheap oil they already have on the market because they love the high prices, but they're aching to put all that hard to access expensive offshore oil on the market so they can take advantage of high prices. Yeah, that was pretty much a bust.

They want access to the offshore oil now for the access to the land, not for the oil. Ironic you'd accuse others of obtuseness.

You have constantly been the among the most hateful, and easily the most condescending poster on this board for some time. The fact that you are trying to pass the blame off on the other posters mirrors the same argumentative structure that you've consistently used--red herrings and thought terminating cliches.

In regards to the substance of the argument:

"Oil companies are sitting on 68 million acres they have already leased from the American people for the purpose of oil and natural gas production," said Sen. Bob Menendez, D-New Jersey.

"It is about time they use these resources already at their disposal instead of waiting for more federal handouts and pushing to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge or up and down our coasts," he added.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/are_the_democrats_correct_in_stating_that.html

According to the U.S. Department of the Interior's Mineral Management Service, there are nearly 68 million acres of federal lands (onshore and off) that are part of non-producing leases as of fiscal year 2007. This is in contrast to 25.7 million acres of leased lands that are producing oil. So, there are 68 million acres of leased land on which companies aren't extracting oil, but Obama went too far when he said oil companies "haven't touched" them. As Bureau of Land Management Petroleum Engineer Bill Gewecke, who manages the onshore sites, told us, he "wouldn't say untouched, [I] would say undeveloped."

That's because these leased lands that don't contain productive drilling operations likely are not lying idle as Obama implies. There are a lot of steps and procedures involved in setting up a productive oil well on leased land, both onshore and off. The Bureau of Land Management's Web site lists the regulatory hurdles that need to be cleared as part of the larger five-step life cycle of a well. The path to setting up an offshore drilling operation is even longer, as shown in a large flow chart developed by the MMS.

http://www.hvpress.net/news/126/ARTICLE/4662/2008-06-27.html

These unused areas could produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of natural gas each day, nearly double current domestic oil production. That would nearly double total U.S. oil production, and is more than six times the estimated potential peak production from ANWR.

go bowe
08-05-2008, 09:21 PM
* * *
When it comes to the better temporary plan to allow ourselves the future, I like the republicans side a little better. Our national debt is so damn high, we are going to go bankrupt with the democrats plan of taxing to fund new programs, plus a universal health care program to boot.
sorry you feel that way roy...

as far as the national debt is concerned isn't it a republican who has already pushed our national debt into the stratosphere with the blessing of a republican controlled congress?

the transfer of wealth thingy is interesting too...

seems to me that the greatest transfer of wealth has been from the u.s. treasury to the wondrous and wildly successful new iraq...

another huge transfer of wealth is going from our wallets to the oil producing states in the me...

compared to what we have spent and continue to spend in iraq, we could do much more to help our own people and our crumbling infrastructure without even sniffing the cost of the war in iraq...

every program that the democrats could possibly conceive of could be paid for many times over with what we are spending in iraq...

besides, having a majority of the seats in congress still will not give the democrats the power to pass whatever they want, unless they can take 60 seats in the senate...

i'm reasonably sure that the use of the filibuster is not an art that the republicans have forgotten...

go bowe
08-05-2008, 09:38 PM
You've got the biggest set of balls ever. You can post Obama's "energy policy" as if it's something to be proud of and call me dumb? LMAO

Do you have any idea what dumb means? Calling people "rovebots" using terms like "cheneyburton" calling anyone that disagrees with the politics of Obama "racist"---being against capital punishment then posting threads giddy with the idea that Cheney could be executed, posting that Rove will be indicted in 2 weeks based upon nothing but pure BS and you're calling me dumb? You've got a pair, or you don't know what dumb means, one of the 2. I hope you're in need of a wheelbarrel.you mean cheney hasn't been executed yet?

damned democrats...

why can't they get anything right when it comes to solving problems?

oh, btw, what's different between calling people obama-bots and calling people rove-bots?

SBK
08-05-2008, 10:05 PM
you mean cheney hasn't been executed yet?

damned democrats...

why can't they get anything right when it comes to solving problems?

oh, btw, what's different between calling people obama-bots and calling people rove-bots?

I don't know anyone on here supporting Rove for any office do you?

As far as I know I don't refer to people as O-bots or anything. I prefer to call them his congregation or true believers. :evil:

SBK
08-05-2008, 10:07 PM
I was also wondering how many cars today actually need to be tuned up, with cars being fancy computer chips and all today? Anybody have insight? Any auto technicians in the house?

Do cars tune themselves, or do we tune them up? Will 100k intervals for spark plugs make a big mileage difference?

go bowe
08-05-2008, 10:16 PM
Congress had some pretty good debates leading up to their break. Good points were made on both sides of the aisle. However, not a single thing was done to address the problem. Why? Nobody wanted to vote for or against any bill as it may affect the outcome of their election. Because being a congressman is more important than solving the issue.and in other news, the sky is still blue, mostly...

go bowe
08-05-2008, 10:21 PM
I properly inflated the air in my tires, but the price of gasoline didn't go down like B.O. (our great leader) said it would.

:spock:hold on, it's not great leader, it's dear leader...

just like in communist north korea...

try to keep up... :p :p :p

Ultra Peanut
08-05-2008, 10:41 PM
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go bowe
08-05-2008, 10:43 PM
Yes, I fully understand it, but choosing to ignore the millions of acres of leases is not a sound philosophy. We also, should be trying to use alternative fuel sources instead of putting all of our eggs in one basket. Natural Gas is a viable alternative and yet all we hear is Anwar or bust-it's a talking point being exploited for political gain.natural gas is a viable alternative?

do you heat your house with natural gas?

have you noticed that your natural gas bill just keeps getting higher and higher?

i sure have...

go bowe
08-05-2008, 10:46 PM
I can't believe this is even a story. Aren't we hoping for better ideas than this? Sheesh!yes...

HolmeZz
08-05-2008, 10:48 PM
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"Pride in ignorance" is a pretty good line. Sums up the likes of recxjake and a few other posters here well.

go bowe
08-05-2008, 10:51 PM
It's not that people think it's his only plan, it's that he believes that that particular measure would do more than offshore drilling. It suggests flippancy, unseriousness, and a lack of comprehension of economies of scale.hey, what have you got against flippancy?

life (and discussions around here) would be so boring without the occasional flippancy here and there...

it's a dirty job but somebody has to do it...

being flippant i mean...

go bowe
08-05-2008, 10:54 PM
It puts offshore drilling into the proper (marginal) context. Nothing more.

Obama's said from day 1 that the only solution is comprehensive one. To not make that the focus of substantive discussion is to make yourself a Rove-bot who's only effort is to exploit any distraction possible.damn, i guess i'm a rove-bot trapped in an o-bot body...

or is it an o-bot trapped in a rove body?

i can never keep these things straight...

go bowe
08-05-2008, 11:00 PM
I'm thinking about changing my name to rovebot.it's rove-bot...

don't leave out that thingy in the middle...

rove-bot, o-bot...

dumb-bot, stupid-bot...

see how easy it is?

go bowe
08-05-2008, 11:07 PM
Didn't you get the memo, only Democrats drive around with bad tire pressure.

Some of you are so quick to point fingers at others instead of actually seeing the merit in what was said. Obama is absolutely right, proper tire pressure DOES help with fuel effeciency. There is no flaw to what was said, only simple-minded people that try to read into this as more than what it was.hey, don't knock simple-minded...

i believe in being simple-minded whenever possible...

and the occasional laugh is good for your health too...

go bowe
08-05-2008, 11:29 PM
Expense.
Would you be willing to pay an extra, lets say, $3K, or so, for a passenger vehicle equiped with a monitoring system that did what you could do with first a visual inspection then if need be putting a gauge to it?i thought all new cars have a tire pressure monitor like the one in our car that makes pretty pictures in my dashboard if my tires are underinflated...

and i'm pretty sure that "i'm not the only one" /john lennon

Guru
08-05-2008, 11:34 PM
i thought all new cars have a tire pressure monitor like the one in our car that makes pretty pictures in my dashboard if my tires are underinflated...

and i'm pretty sure that "i'm not the only one" /john lennon

I would like to know how much the tire has to go down before those kick on?

go bowe
08-05-2008, 11:49 PM
I don't know anyone on here supporting Rove for any office do you?

As far as I know I don't refer to people as O-bots or anything. I prefer to call them his congregation or true believers. :evil:well, i think rove is more of the master craftsman behind the scenes...

as for the true believers part, i'm at least a little skeptical even though i generally agree with what obama is saying most of the time...

i guess i'm not a true believer but at this point i plan to vote for obama if only to elect someone who probably will not die before his first term ends...

mccain is really old, i mean seriously old...

he's so old that after he taught the egyptians how to build pyramids, he helped moses part the red sea (was it the red sea, or some other sea? i can never keep these things straight)...

i mean really really old...

go bowe
08-05-2008, 11:51 PM
I would like to know how much the tire has to go down before those kick on?apparently not very much...

mine kicked in when i needed a few pounds of air in one of my front tires...

jAZ
08-06-2008, 12:16 AM
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Awesome.

Baby Lee
08-06-2008, 04:42 AM
hey, what have you got against flippancy?

life (and discussions around here) would be so boring without the occasional flippancy here and there...

it's a dirty job but somebody has to do it...

being flippant i mean...

F@ck me, we're too stupid to go on. People thought I was overreaching saying he came off flip, then he follows up with that footage UP posted . . .

"Some nice young lady asked me "WHAT CAN I DO!!!" And alls I did was point out that if you air up your tires, you'd save more oil than McCain can get drilling . . . under. . . under his feet there. . . . and they made FUN OF MEEEEEE!! They love flat tires!!!!!!"

Radar Chief
08-06-2008, 07:03 AM
i thought all new cars have a tire pressure monitor like the one in our car that makes pretty pictures in my dashboard if my tires are underinflated...

and i'm pretty sure that "i'm not the only one" /john lennon

And I’m sure they just gave it to you out of the goodness in their heart with no price increase.

markk
08-07-2008, 09:45 AM
apparently not very much...

mine kicked in when i needed a few pounds of air in one of my front tires...

I think mine kick off when it goes 4 pounds below the recommended setting. the car is 4 years old and i think it's only gone off once or twice. one of those times i had a screw buried in the tire and it leaked out gradually. the other time i couldnt find a leak but the tires were getting to the end of their useful life so i replaced them.

Your tires should not go down more than a couple of pounds between oil changes unless there's a leak in them somewhere. they will go down slightly when the weather gets cold but nothing drastic.

i have a hard time thinking this is going to make a difference for the majority of people. most people's tires are probably a few pounds low, but not like 25% or whatever it would take to make a difference in fuel economy you'd even notice.

this idea, inflating tires means we don't need offshore drilling, is based on the premise that we know pretty well how many cars out there have low pressure and how low they are is very dubious. how can anyone say with any certainty at all how much gas this would save us? have there been studies done on this?

ROYC75
08-07-2008, 10:06 AM
Awesome.


Sure is ....... again, getting 40 million Americans to do this is like getting 10,000 politicians to think alike. Not going to happen .......

Is Obama going to install the Tire police to enforce this or let the local authorities do it.

Now if that comment was off base, so is the democrats comments of thinking that all the republicans want to do is drill , drill, drill, that is the only way to resolve our problems .......


Again, Both comments are just not true .......... Smear comments and ads.

Stinger
08-07-2008, 10:28 AM
I think mine kick off when it goes 4 pounds below the recommended setting. the car is 4 years old and i think it's only gone off once or twice. one of those times i had a screw buried in the tire and it leaked out gradually. the other time i couldnt find a leak but the tires were getting to the end of their useful life so i replaced them.

Your tires should not go down more than a couple of pounds between oil changes unless there's a leak in them somewhere. they will go down slightly when the weather gets cold but nothing drastic.

i have a hard time thinking this is going to make a difference for the majority of people. most people's tires are probably a few pounds low, but not like 25% or whatever it would take to make a difference in fuel economy you'd even notice.

this idea, inflating tires means we don't need offshore drilling, is based on the premise that we know pretty well how many cars out there have low pressure and how low they are is very dubious. how can anyone say with any certainty at all how much gas this would save us? have there been studies done on this?


Actually this is brilliant by Big oil. Tricking Obama into getting people to inflate their tires. People go out in droves and get their tires over inflated, thus having many blowouts. Then we have a run on tires which as many know here .... Tires are made as a derivative in many instances of oil. We have more of a massive run on oil and have to drill. This is brilliant

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/stinger871/Brilliant.jpg

mlyonsd
08-21-2008, 07:21 AM
Ok, here's the deal.

I haven't checked the tire pressure in my highway car since about January. I drive about 100-110 miles per day 5 days a week.

At my next fill up I'll start checking my fuel mileage. I'll run two full tanks of gas through and then fill up my tires, then repeat the test.

I'll report back what I find. Should take about 2 weeks. By the looks of it this thread might even still be at the top.

File this in the FWIW category.......

To see just what filling tires meant to my highway car I did the above test. I ran two tanks of gas through my 2006 Chevy Cobalt, filled the tires, and ran 2 more tanks. Most of these were interstate miles where I made sure to run the same speed, 77mph. Here's what I found.

Before filling the tires:

595.3 miles on 21.372 gallons of gas which equals 27.855 MPG.

The last time I remember filling my tires was around Xmas so I figure my car would be a good poster child for the test.

PSI before PSI after
LR 15.5 44
LF 23.0 44
RR 20.5 44
RF 33.5 44

After filling tires:

513.2 miles on 17.839 gallons of gas which equals 28.769 MPG.

So, to caculate the savings per year....I figure I drive that car at least 26,000 miles per year.

On under inflated tires that comes out to 933.406 gallons of gas per year, fully inflated 903.751.

Roughly I could use 30 less gallons of gas per year with inflated tires. That's about 863 more miles a year I could drive for the same bucks.

Baby Lee
08-21-2008, 07:31 AM
File this in the FWIW category.......

To see just what filling tires meant to my highway car I did the above test. I ran two tanks of gas through my 2006 Chevy Cobalt, filled the tires, and ran 2 more tanks. Most of these were interstate miles where I made sure to run the same speed, 77mph. Here's what I found.

Before filling the tires:

595.3 miles on 21.372 gallons of gas which equals 27.855 MPG.

The last time I remember filling my tires was around Xmas so I figure my car would be a good poster child for the test.

PSI before PSI after
LR 15.5 44
LF 23.0 44
RR 20.5 44
RF 33.5 44

After filling tires:

513.2 miles on 17.839 gallons of gas which equals 28.769 MPG.

So, to caculate the savings per year....I figure I drive that car at least 26,000 miles per year.

On under inflated tires that comes out to 933.406 gallons of gas per year, fully inflated 903.751.

Roughly I could use 30 less gallons of gas per year with inflated tires. That's about 863 more miles a year I could drive for the same bucks.

Congrats, you got 3.3%, well 3.28%.

chiefforlife
08-21-2008, 06:59 PM
Congrats, you got 3.3%, well 3.28%.

EXACTLY what the original post claimed. ;)

mlyonsd
08-22-2008, 07:03 AM
EXACTLY what the original post claimed. ;)

You're welcome. ;)

mlyonsd
08-22-2008, 02:35 PM
bump for dirk.

RJ
08-22-2008, 03:34 PM
File this in the FWIW category.......

To see just what filling tires meant to my highway car I did the above test. I ran two tanks of gas through my 2006 Chevy Cobalt, filled the tires, and ran 2 more tanks. Most of these were interstate miles where I made sure to run the same speed, 77mph. Here's what I found.

Before filling the tires:

595.3 miles on 21.372 gallons of gas which equals 27.855 MPG.

The last time I remember filling my tires was around Xmas so I figure my car would be a good poster child for the test.

PSI before PSI after
LR 15.5 44
LF 23.0 44
RR 20.5 44
RF 33.5 44

After filling tires:

513.2 miles on 17.839 gallons of gas which equals 28.769 MPG.

So, to caculate the savings per year....I figure I drive that car at least 26,000 miles per year.

On under inflated tires that comes out to 933.406 gallons of gas per year, fully inflated 903.751.

Roughly I could use 30 less gallons of gas per year with inflated tires. That's about 863 more miles a year I could drive for the same bucks.



Interesting, thanks for sharing.

I'd say your car is getting better mileage than the average car but you're also putting more miles on it than average, so that 30 gallons a year might be a reasonable number per vehicle.

Let's see......multiply by a lotta cars, carry the nine.....yep, it looks like a shitload of gas.

Little drilling here, little inflating there, maybe we can see sub-$3 gas again someday.