A *SANE* Moveon.org commercial? WTF?

[Direckshun]

Moveon.org is infamous for their inflammatory, insane anti-Republican ads. They do nothing but enrage and mobilize their opponents

But this one is (I can't believe I'm saying this) sensible and very, very effective.

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If Moveon.org can keep their ads at this tone, they can actually have a positive affect for Obama.

Man. I never thought I'd see that coming.

[Donger]

Errr, isn't Barack Hussein now for drilling the OCS?

[recxjake]

ROFL

[HonestChieffan]

bummage, missed that change.

[Donger]

So, Direckshun, why do you think this ad is "very, very effective"?

[Direckshun]

So, Direckshun, why do you think this ad is "very, very effective"?
I think it's effective for the same reason Moveon.org's ads have been historically ineffective. Instead of grandstanding against the Tide of Evil Republicanism or whatever it is Moveon.org rages against, this one is a simple conversation that conveys a simple piece of information that does a lot to encapsulate why a lot of people may have turned on McCain.

It doesn't feature a retarded voice-over, it doesn't feature those phoney-bologne "stats" that are always misinterpreted and plastered across the screen (one of which just played on the TV as I typed this out).

It doesn't attack McCain personally, it just calls him out (rightly or wrongly) and makes its simple case. It's the kind of ad that Moveon.org would never have been satisfied making in the past, and I have no idea where on earth it's come from, except that maybe Obama has pressured these liberal 527s into making more legitimate ads.

I think the average person would view this ad as legit. I've been wrong before, but I think it works.

[Donger]

I think it's effective for the same reason Moveon.org's ads have been historically ineffective. Instead of grandstanding against the Tide of Evil Republicanism or whatever it is Moveon.org rages against, this one is a simple conversation that conveys a simple piece of information that does a lot to encapsulate why a lot of people may have turned on McCain.

It doesn't feature a retarded voice-over, it doesn't feature those phoney-bologne "stats" that are always misinterpreted and plastered across the screen (one of which just played on the TV as I typed this out).

It doesn't attack McCain personally, it just calls him out (rightly or wrongly) and makes its simple case. It's the kind of ad that Moveon.org would never have been satisfied making in the past, and I have no idea where on earth it's come from, except that maybe Obama has pressured these liberal 527s into making more legitimate ads.

I think the average person would view this ad as legit. I've been wrong before, but I think it works.

You would agree that it is an anti-McCain ad, yes? And, that it is anti-McCain based on McCain's support of drilling the OCS, yes?

[Baby Lee]

NOW who's pretending one aspect of McCain's policy is the whole gambit?

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/news/Speeches/13bc1d97-4ca5-49dd-9805-1297872571ed.htm

[Baby Lee]

maybe Obama has pressured these liberal 527s into making more legitimate ads.
Better hope not.

[mcan]

I think the average person would view this ad as legit. I've been wrong before, but I think it works.



I'm an Obama fan, and I don't like this commercial. First, it has the worst looped dialogue I've ever seen. EVER. The quality of that guys' voice changes so badly, it's clear it's not even him talking for the middle part.

As for that actual issue. It doesn't give a single reason or try to back up its claims against offshore drilling. It just spouts off a hypothetical and then says "shame on you."

[Direckshun]

You would agree that it is an anti-McCain ad, yes? And, that it is anti-McCain based on McCain's support of drilling the OCS, yes?
I think that's a simplistic way of breaking it down, but that's good enough.

[Direckshun]

NOW who's pretending one aspect of McCain's policy is the whole gambit?

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/news/Speeches/13bc1d97-4ca5-49dd-9805-1297872571ed.htm
Hmmm... I don't think the ad argued that this was McCain's entire energy approach.

I think it was a response to that aspect of his energy approach.

[Donger]

I think that's a simplistic way of breaking it down, but that's good enough.

And you agree that Barack Hussein also supports (now) drilling the OCS, yes?

[Baby Lee]

You would agree that it is an anti-McCain ad, yes? And, that it is anti-McCain based on McCain's support of drilling the OCS, yes?

My critique is it's an ad from moveon.org purporting to be from the POV of an otherwise McCain admirer suddenly distressed by this new 'wrinkle' in McCain's approach.

[Direckshun]

I'm an Obama fan, and I don't like this commercial. First, it has the worst looped dialogue I've ever seen. EVER. The quality of that guys' voice changes so badly, it's clear it's not even him talking for the middle part.

As for that actual issue. It doesn't give a single reason or try to back up its claims against offshore drilling. It just spouts off a hypothetical and then says "shame on you."
Well I'm not going to argue on style. If you hate it, you hate it. But you have to admit this is a huge step forward for an organization that's as venomous as any out there.

It did provide a reason against offshore drilling, by the way.

[Donger]

Hmmm... I don't think the ad argued that this was McCain's entire energy approach.

I think it was a response to that aspect of his energy approach.

The ad is pretty simplistic.

McCain = drilling.

Drilling = equals not a solution.

Not a solution = shame.

The funny part is...

[Baby Lee]

Hmmm... I don't think the ad argued that this was McCain's entire energy approach.

I think it was a response to that aspect of his energy approach.

It said we were promised solutions. It takes one of those solutions. It says it's not THE solution. What other conclusion is there?

[Donger]

My critique is it's an ad from moveon.org purporting to be from the POV of an otherwise McCain admirer suddenly distressed by this new 'wrinkle' in McCain's approach.

Indeed, and I understand that. But considering that Barack Hussein supports the same drilling now, I don't see how "effective" it is going to be as an anti-McCain/pro-Barack Hussein ad.

[Direckshun]

And you agree that Barack Hussein also supports (now) drilling the OCS, yes?
Sure, the difference being, however, is that Obama's willing to incorporate that position in as a compromise to achieve a greater policy, whereas McCain's spearheaded this issue, full steam ahead.

[Direckshun]

My critique is it's an ad from moveon.org purporting to be from the POV of an otherwise McCain admirer suddenly distressed by this new 'wrinkle' in McCain's approach.
Right. I think that's a reasonable perspective.

[Baby Lee]

Right. I think that's a reasonable perspective.

Meaning my perspective on the ad, I presume. ;)

[StcChief]

The ad is pretty simplistic.

McCain = drilling.

Drilling = equals not a solution.

Not a solution = shame.

The funny part is...consider the source and their target audience....

[Direckshun]

It said we were promised solutions. It takes one of those solutions. It says it's not THE solution. What other conclusion is there?
I believe it said "it's not a solution."

Maybe I heard it wrong.

[Donger]

Sure, the difference being, however, is that Obama's willing to incorporate that position in as a compromise to achieve a great policy, whereas McCain's spearheaded this issue, full steam ahead.

Great policy? Is that the new policy or the old one? If it's the new one that includes drilling the OCS, this ad could be made applicable to either candidate.

[Direckshun]

Meaning my perspective on the ad, I presume. ;)
Right.

[Direckshun]

Great policy? Is that the new policy or the old one? If it's the new one that includes drilling the OCS, this ad could be made applicable to either candidate.
I mistyped, and corrected the initial post. I meant "greater policy."

But again, that distinction between incorporating drilling as a compromise vs. pushing and arguing for drilling for quite some time, is crucial. One suggests a guy who's going to keep it reduced as much as possible, the other does not.

[Baby Lee]

I believe it said "it's not a solution."

Maybe I heard it wrong.

With the exception, according to Obama, of tire pressure obviating the need for offshore drilling, everyone agrees that there's not A solution, but a series of solutions.

[Programmer]

The ad is pretty simplistic.

McCain = drilling.

Drilling = equals not a solution.

Not a solution = shame.

The funny part is...

My opinion of what you started here is, that Drilling is not the long term answer. Drilling is a short term answer to the problem.

Is it a shame that drilling is not the long term answer? I don't think so, but it's an answer that might tide us over until the technology and or delivery of an alternative energy source.

What we need is lower prices at the pumps. Drilling may not give an immediate reduction, but neither will waiting for the alternatives to be developed and put online.

[Direckshun]

With the exception, according to Obama, of tire pressure obviating the need for offshore drilling, everyone agrees that there's not A solution, but a series of solutions.
I think you may be tangling the cords a bit. When we're worrying about whether the character says "a" or "the," we're probably parsing more than the average viewer who just got back from a bathroom break.

McCain argues regularly for the virtues of drilling offshore, of which this character in the commercial is clearly opposed.

Nonetheless, like or dislike the ad, I'm fairly confident you'd agree this is leaps and bounds for Moveon.

[Donger]

I mistyped, and corrected the initial post. I meant "greater policy."

But again, that distinction between incorporating drilling as a compromise vs. pushing and arguing for drilling for quite some time, is crucial. One suggests a guy who's going to keep it reduced as much as possible, the other does not.

Is Barack Hussein still of the opinion that drilling the OCS is still a "scheme" and wouldn't help at all?

And, by "reduced as much as possible," are you saying that Barack Hussein is for drilling, but just not very much? If so, what's the logic behind that?

[Donger]

My opinion of what you started here is, that Drilling is not the long term answer. Drilling is a short term answer to the problem.

Is it a shame that drilling is not the long term answer? I don't think so, but it's an answer that might tide us over until the technology and or delivery of an alternative energy source.

What we need is lower prices at the pumps. Drilling may not give an immediate reduction, but neither will waiting for the alternatives to be developed and put online.

I'm of the opinion that the price of crude WOULD drop immediately once we decide to drill the OCS.

[Programmer]

I'm of the opinion that the price of crude WOULD drop immediately once we decide to drill the OCS.

I feel the price reductions we are seeing now are probably to keep the drilling from happening. If the crude goes down in price the speculators and oil companies won't want to invest to drill if the return isn't going to keep their windfall profits running as they are.

[Direckshun]

Is Barack Hussein still of the opinion that drilling the OCS is still a "scheme" and wouldn't help at all?

And, by "reduced as much as possible," are you saying that Barack Hussein is for drilling, but just not very much? If so, what's the logic behind that?
I saw him in person when he visited Springfield, and he argued that point. He didn't say it wouldn't help "at all," he did say it wouldn't yield any significant reductions in oil costs, and when it did, it'd be years down the line.

You're changing the topic now, so I'll only answer in part. Obama's not for drilling at all, but he's willing to dip his toes in the pool if it means more progress on technological innovations for alternative energy and higher fuel efficiency standards, etc etc.

[Donger]

I feel the price reductions we are seeing now are probably to keep the drilling from happening. If the crude goes down in price the speculators and oil companies won't want to invest to drill if the return isn't going to keep their windfall profits running as they are.

I think the sweet spot for drilling the OCS is around $50/barrel. If they get the green light, they drill for it.

[Programmer]

I saw him in person when he visited Springfield, and he argued that point. He didn't say it wouldn't help "at all," he did say it would yield any significant reductions in oil costs, and when it did, it'd be years down the line.

You're changing the topic now, so I'll only answer in part. Obama's not for drilling at all, but he's willing to dip his toes in the pool if it means more progress on technological innovations for alternative energy and higher fuel efficiency standards, etc etc.

It sounds like you are buying the story that we can wait for the alternative energy and higher fuel efficient vehicle standards to make their appearance. What do we do in the mean time? Pay $5.00 or more a gallon?

[Direckshun]

It sounds like you are buying the story that we can wait for the alternative energy and higher fuel efficient vehicle standards to make their appearance. What do we do in the mean time? Pay $5.00 or more a gallon?
Try our damnedest to mitigate insane costs, I guess. We're going to have to do that anyway. I don't share your opinion that OCS drilling would lower prices "right away"; I think it'd take years.

[Donger]

I saw him in person when he visited Springfield, and he argued that point. He didn't say it wouldn't help "at all," he did say it wouldn't yield any significant reductions in oil costs, and when it did, it'd be years down the line.

Well, he clearly doesn't understand the market.

[Direckshun]

This video doesn't deserve its own thread, so I'll post it here as it's somewhat close to this topic.

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[Donger]

This video doesn't deserve its own thread, so I'll post it here as it's somewhat close to this topic.

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I don't see anyone saying that having properly inflated tires isn't more fuel-efficient. It is.

I do see people taking issue with Barack Hussein saying, ""We could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could save just as much."

[Programmer]

Try our damnedest to mitigate insane costs, I guess. We're going to have to do that anyway. I don't share your opinion that OCS drilling would lower prices "right away"; I think it'd take years.

The oil pumped might take years to impact prices, but the threat of the U.S. cutting the sales of OPEC would be an immediate impact. I believe they will do anything possible to keep us dependent on their supply.

[Direckshun]

The oil pumped might take years to impact prices, but the threat of the U.S. cutting the sales of OPEC would be an immediate impact. I believe they will do anything possible to keep us dependent on their supply.
I think that's a possibility, but the drilling we're talking about isn't going to be substantial enough. We're still going to be dependent on their business. Meanwhile, rising industries around the planet, but particularly in China and India, will lessen their dependence on our business.

I don't see it. The gas prices have been minimally responsive to us driving substantially less. I don't think they're as sensitive to our demand as we wish they were.

[Guru]

Political ads are a complete waste of time. I don't even listen to them anymore.

Bring on the debates.

[Ultra Peanut]

Moveon.org is infamous for their inflammatory, insane anti-Republican ads. They do nothing but enrage and mobilize their opponents

But this one is (I can't believe I'm saying this) sensible and very, very effective.

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If Moveon.org can keep their ads at this tone, they can actually have a positive affect for Obama.

Man. I never thought I'd see that coming.It's called leadership. Barry Handsome has it, and everyone below him -- even those he has no direct control over -- have taken note of his tone and followed his lead. It's really quite an amazing change of pace.

[Ultra Peanut]

It doesn't attack McCain personally, it just calls him out (rightly or wrongly) and makes its simple case. Exactly. It's exactly like Obama's official statements calling McCain an honorable man and expressing disappointment in his campaign's actions. There's no need to get hysterical when the other guy's doing that for you.

[Programmer]

It's called leadership. Barry Handsome has it, and everyone below him -- even those he has no direct control over -- have taken note of his tone and followed his lead. It's really quite an amazing change of pace.

I think you are confusing charisma with leadership. To be a leader you have to make decisions that are not appeasing to everyone. Regardless of your opinion of Bush, he has exhibited leadership throughout his tenure as president. Most don't like his decisions because of political polarity than the actual merit of the decisions.

If BO is elected you will see the weakness of his leadership qualities and will develop the same disdain for his presidency as you have Bush II's.

[VAChief]

I think you are confusing charisma with leadership. To be a leader you have to make decisions that are not appeasing to everyone. Regardless of your opinion of Bush, he has exhibited leadership throughout his tenure as president. Most don't like his decisions because of political polarity than the actual merit of the decisions.

If BO is elected you will see the weakness of his leadership qualities and will develop the same disdain for his presidency as you have Bush II's.

If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader. John Quincy Adams

[Programmer]

If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader. John Quincy Adams

That's a fine quote, but I do not feel it's applicable to BO.

The only way this argument can be proven is if he is elected. I hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does you will see that I'm not far from dead on in my assessment of BO.

[VAChief]

That's a fine quote, but I do not feel it's applicable to BO.

The only way this argument can be proven is if he is elected. I hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does you will see that I'm not far from dead on in my assessment of BO.

Whether it applies in your opinion or not, most thought on strong leadership today reflects that quote from close to 200 years ago. Stubborn refusal to accept change where it is needed or adapt to fluid circumstances is what very poor leaders exemplify. You want someone with a strong central vision and belief in that basic vision, but not someone who will stand by there initial committment to the detrement of the organization and its members. That is my basic problem with the current administration, and something I hope will change under whoever is in there next. The bipartisan bs will not go away overnight, but we need people to start standing up on both sides of the aisle to say when s**t is just not right without the excuses.

[Direckshun]

To be a leader you have to make decisions that are not appeasing to everyone.
Even if this were a decent definition of "leadership," which it's not, it still fits Obama, because he's made numerous decisions that you dislike, Programmer.

By your own definition, he's a leader.

[Direckshun]

Whether it applies in your opinion or not, most thought on strong leadership today reflects that quote from close to 200 years ago. Stubborn refusal to accept change where it is needed or adapt to fluid circumstances is what very poor leaders exemplify. You want someone with a strong central vision and belief in that basic vision, but not someone who will stand by there initial committment to the detrement of the organization and its members. That is my basic problem with the current administration, and something I hope will change under whoever is in there next. The bipartisan bs will not go away overnight, but we need people to start standing up on both sides of the aisle to say when s**t is just not right without the excuses.
And that's a better way of putting it.

[Programmer]

Whether it applies in your opinion or not, most thought on strong leadership today reflects that quote from close to 200 years ago. Stubborn refusal to accept change where it is needed or adapt to fluid circumstances is what very poor leaders exemplify. You want someone with a strong central vision and belief in that basic vision, but not someone who will stand by there initial committment to the detrement of the organization and its members. That is my basic problem with the current administration, and something I hope will change under whoever is in there next. The bipartisan bs will not go away overnight, but we need people to start standing up on both sides of the aisle to say when s**t is just not right without the excuses.

I don't believe that Obama is going to do anything to eliminate the bipartisan atmosphere in DC. In my opinion he will widen the gap between the two parties.

[Programmer]

Even if this were a decent definition of "leadership," which it's not, it still fits Obama, because he's made numerous decisions that you dislike, Programmer.

By your own definition, he's a leader.

What decisions has he made? Name one that has had impact on the American people. OOPS ... you, like him, have forgotten that he is not in a positioin of leadership.

[SBK]

Try our damnedest to mitigate insane costs, I guess. We're going to have to do that anyway. I don't share your opinion that OCS drilling would lower prices "right away"; I think it'd take years.

Oil prices were what, $140-$145 a barrel when the debate starting coming out that we should drill and today they're what, $115-$120? That seems like an immediate impact to me.

[Direckshun]

What decisions has he made? Name one that has had impact on the American people. OOPS ... you, like him, have forgotten that he is not in a positioin of leadership.
Well first of all, he's a Senator. That's a position of leadership.

Second of all, here (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/key-votes/)'s a list of crucial votes he's cast as a Senator. Without a doubt, you disagree with many of them.

Thereby, using your definition, making him a leader. LMAO

[Direckshun]

Oil prices were what, $140-$145 a barrel when the debate starting coming out that we should drill and today they're what, $115-$120? That seems like an immediate impact to me.
If you look at a chart documenting price and gas usage, that's a response to Americans driving less more than anything else.

[SBK]

Dude, leadership is influence, that's it. Obama has a lot of it.

[Direckshun]

Dude, leadership is influence, that's it. Obama has a lot of it.
That's about how I'd define it.

[SBK]

If you look at a chart documenting price and gas usage, that's a response to Americans driving less more than anything else.

So gas had the biggest single day, week long etc drops in history because we suddenly stopped driving more?

I know you would prefer we fill our tires :) but if you'd take an honest look at this you can see that when our government started to debate drilling for our own oil prices came down instantly.

[Direckshun]

So gas had the biggest single day, week long etc drops in history because we suddenly stopped driving more?

I know you would prefer we fill our tires :) but if you'd take an honest look at this you can see that when our government started to debate drilling for our own oil prices came down instantly.
Well god, if things fluctuate that easily, do you think it's impossible that oil companies are trying to coax us into drilling by lowering prices for a while?

[SBK]

Well god, if things fluctuate that easily, do you think it's impossible that oil companies are trying to coax us into drilling by lowering prices for a while?

All markets move insanely fast. Do you follow Wall Street at all? A rumor will come out, which could be completely baseless, and a stock will soar or tank within minutes.

Oil is the same way. When there's a perceived shortage the price will go up, if the market sees a huge supply coming, just the rumor or speculation of that, will cause the pricing to shift. Hurricanes enter the Gulf and oil prices go up, simply because the market is worried about a temporary shortage.

Markets are very emotion driven. If they were not there would be no reason to follow them daily. Companies would be valued based solely upon their earnings and profits, not based upon rumors, potential and other variables that have no basis in fact.

[Programmer]

Well first of all, he's a Senator. That's a position of leadership.


Being a senator no more makes you a leader than sitting in an automobile makes you a NASCAR driver.

[Carlota69]

My opinion of what you started here is, that Drilling is not the long term answer. Drilling is a short term answer to the problem.

Is it a shame that drilling is not the long term answer? I don't think so, but it's an answer that might tide us over until the technology and or delivery of an alternative energy source.

What we need is lower prices at the pumps. Drilling may not give an immediate reduction, but neither will waiting for the alternatives to be developed and put online.


From the things I've been reading, this isnt even a short term solution. I've been reading that it would take well over a decade to even get started and producing. Then it wouldnt be much a of a breather after that. I think it was something like .02% relief and it would be in the year 2030.

of course, what is the NOW solution? It seems everything that comes up wont work, not fast enough, not economical enough...blah blah blah...gets frustrating...

[VAChief]

I don't believe that Obama is going to do anything to eliminate the bipartisan atmosphere in DC. In my opinion he will widen the gap between the two parties.

I am curious though if you believe that a leader should be more authoritarian, steadfast, and unwavering (change those adjectives if needed) but you want someone who can get through this bipartisan funk we are currently experiencing...wouldn't that be counter intuitive to a large degree?

[Programmer]

From the things I've been reading, this isnt even a short term solution. I've been reading that it would take well over a decade to even get started and producing. Then it wouldnt be much a of a breather after that. I think it was something like .02% relief and it would be in the year 2030.

of course, what is the NOW solution? It seems everything that comes up wont work, not fast enough, not economical enough...blah blah blah...gets frustrating...

Say the short term solution is drilling now and that it takes 3 years for it to have an impact. How long will it take to get the alternative technology going? The impact will not be 20 years down the road if we start drilling now. I'm not sure where you got your information but the sheer notion that we are going to drill seems to have had immediate impact. Not long ago crude was $140.00 a barrel, now it is around $116.00 a barrel.

If you don't want to drill now, what will you be saying in three years when OPEC still has us by the short hairs and we are paying over $5.00 a gallon?

[Programmer]

I am curious though if you believe that a leader should be more authoritarian, steadfast, and unwavering (change those adjectives if needed) but you want someone who can get through this bipartisan funk we are currently experiencing...wouldn't that be counter intuitive to a large degree?

The story line is that you think Obama is the savior here , I think he would be the worst president since Jimmy Carter. He has no experience, all he has going for him is that he is popular. FWIW I don't think being popular does one hell of a lot to solve the problems we face. If you just want to feel good about who is in office you are not thinking of the good of the nation.

[Carlota69]

Say the short term solution is drilling now and that it takes 3 years for it to have an impact. How long will it take to get the alternative technology going? The impact will not be 20 years down the road if we start drilling now. I'm not sure where you got your information but the sheer notion that we are going to drill seems to have had immediate impact. Not long ago crude was $140.00 a barrel, now it is around $116.00 a barrel.

If you don't want to drill now, what will you be saying in three years when OPEC still has us by the short hairs and we are paying over $5.00 a gallon?

If it was a good short term solution, sure--Drill Drill Drill! And it may be just in the sense that it drops prices because we are talking about it. But, The EI agency(? Some Governement Energy Counsel--not sure) released a report the other day saying we wouldnt see the effects on our gas prices until 2030, and we wouldnt be able to drill, even if we said GO right now, for another decade. So, from all accounts, this along with other so called solutions isnt going to give us any relief in the present time. Why else did McCain and Bush oppose it until a month or so ago? How long will it take for other methods, just as long apparently. And that's what I mean when I say its frustrating. What is the real deal solution? None of them seem to help us now and not in the near future neither. And they all have political slants to them as well, which means we are really ****ed. And of course, there's the military aspect of Offshore Drilling as well. The pentagon has also agree to taking away some of their training facitlites so we can drill. Thats in the Pentagons hands right now. I'll find the link and send it to you.

Found it...
http://www.military.com/news/article/dod-weighs-impact-of-offshore-drilling.html

And a bit of what I have been reading...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92570077

[VAChief]

The story line is that you think Obama is the savior here , I think he would be the worst president since Jimmy Carter. He has no experience, all he has going for him is that he is popular. FWIW I don't think being popular does one hell of a lot to solve the problems we face. If you just want to feel good about who is in office you are not thinking of the good of the nation.

No, I don't think any mortal is a savior. The more I see of those voting against him and the basis for those decisions...the clearer the choice becomes for me.

[Programmer]

No, I don't think any mortal is a savior. The more I see of those voting against him and the basis for those decisions...the clearer the choice becomes for me.

You really need to dig deeper than why someone is voting against him. If you are depending on the decisions and comments of others to make your decision you need to thave your voter registration revoked.

[VAChief]

You really need to dig deeper than why someone is voting against him. If you are depending on the decisions and comments of others to make your decision you need to thave your voter registration revoked.

So all those that find your views disagreeable you want to take their voting rights away? That doesn't sound very grounded in what makes this country strong. I think maybe you need to quit supposing how you think I may be thinking, I am sure you have enough conflicts going on in your own grey matter to keep you busy.

[Programmer]

So all those that find your views disagreeable you want to take their voting rights away? That doesn't sound very grounded in what makes this country strong. I think maybe you need to quit supposing how you think I may be thinking, I am sure you have enough conflicts going on in your own grey matter to keep you busy.

Damn dude, you said that you were basing your vote on what others were doing. I said: "You really need to dig deeper than why someone is voting against him. If you are depending on the decisions and comments of others to make your decision you need to thave your voter registration revoked."

I'm not supposing anything about you, merely following your comment:
The more I see of those voting against him and the basis for those decisions...the clearer the choice becomes for me.

You are basing your vote on what others are doing. Bad choice and bad use of your vote.

[VAChief]

Damn dude, you said that you were basing your vote on what others were doing. I said:

I'm not supposing anything about you, merely following your comment:


You are basing your vote on what others are doing. Bad choice and bad use of your vote.

Sure you are...look at your own words... I don't wish to debate this anal retentive minutia with you. Assume what you want, I said make my decision "clearer" which I guess you took a leap of conjecture to mean that is the sole basis. Please, even an extremist can have moments of clarity from time to time. Take this opportunity to enjoy one.

[Programmer]

Sure you are...look at your own words... I don't wish to debate this anal retentive minutia with you. Assume what you want, I said make my decision "clearer" which I guess you took a leap of conjecture to mean that is the sole basis. Please, even an extremist can have moments of clarity from time to time. Take this opportunity to enjoy one.

Your comment was clear. If you meant anything more you needed to spell it out.

You need to take some time to seek out a professional. I'm sure they have them in Virginia.

[VAChief]

Your comment was clearYour interpretation however was off. If you meant anything more you needed to spell it out. You didn't like the additional feedback and then you lashed out below

You need to take some time to seek out a professional. I'm sure they have them in Virginia.I believe that would be what is commonly referred to as a "projection."

:shake:

[Programmer]

:shake:

Your ability to post is pretty pathetic. You need to work on clarity, but that's the whole effort here.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Programmer][/B]Your comment was clear Your interpretation however was off. Programmer][/B]If you meant anything more you needed to spell it out. [quote=vaginachief]You didn't like the additional feedback and then you lashed out below

Programmer][/B]You need to take some time to seek out a professional. I'm sure they have them in Virginia.I believe that would be what is commonly referred to as a "projection."
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

So your search for professional help has taken you elsewhere as none reside in Virginia? So what?

You need to get a yourself lined out, professional help is your only respite.