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Direckshun
08-06-2008, 08:00 PM
Weird question by Bankrate.com...

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/RetireEarly/IsRetiringEarlyUnpatriotic.aspx

Is retiring early unpatriotic?

By staying on the job longer, boomers could help spur the economy and ease America's worker shortages, the Social Security mess and the national debt.

By Bankrate.com

Want to do something truly patriotic to help preserve the American way of life?

Don't retire. At least not yet.

That's the advice of Andrew Yarrow, a vice president of the nonprofit, nonpartisan research organization Public Agenda and the director of its Washington, D.C., office.

Yarrow urges the nation's 78 million baby boomers to forgo traditional or early retirement and work for a few more years, for their own sake and the good of the country.

If boomers all turn in their keys at age 55, 62 or 65 and head for the Tuscan hills, that great sucking sound you'll hear is untold amounts of taxpayer dollars being leached from the economy. That is money heirs will have to replace or do without.

It's an act Yarrow calls "profoundly selfish and unpatriotic."

"The argument for working longer is not just about people working to pay more taxes. It's about people working to have more income and wealth themselves, to save for their own lives and their children and grandchildren," says Yarrow, who is also a professor of U.S. history at American University in Washington and the author of "Forgive Us Our Debts: The Intergenerational Dangers of Fiscal Irresponsibility."

"This is an intergenerational issue," he says. "This idea of 'getting what's mine as soon as possible' really doesn't think about future generations."

Yarrow says that when people work longer, they not only continue to pay taxes and produce additional goods and services to spur the economy, but also slow the growth of the national debt.

The debt currently stands at $9.3 trillion and is largely driven by rising Medicare and Social Security costs.
The elephant in the living room
Today, the average retirement age is 62. If millions of Americans worked five more years and retired at 67, the added income would provide about $800 billion in additional tax revenue and reduce benefit costs by at least $100 billion in 2045, according to a 2006 Urban Institute study.

Working longer would also be a gracious way to begin to deal with the elephant in our collective living room: the Social Security mess.

Back in 1935, when Congress passed the Social Security Act, the average U.S. life expectancy was 63, according to Yarrow. Today, the average life expectancy is 78, and if you make it through your 50s, you're likely to live into your 80s or beyond.

"If you retire at 62, you may live another third of your life in retirement," Yarrow says. "Maybe that's right for some people, but a lot of able-bodied Americans could contribute to their employer, their society, the economy, themselves and their children for at least a few more years."

Although the 1983 reforms by the Greenspan Commission gradually nudged up the age for full Social Security benefits by a year or two, our increasing longevity continues to dog the program.

Economist and actor Ben Stein says a change is going to come.

"That retirement date is for sure going to be pushed way, way later," says Stein, the author of "Yes, You Can Still Retire Comfortably!" "I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years that date were 70 years old, given the fact that people are more vigorous in their old age, generally speaking."

Stein also expects the cap on Social Security taxes to disappear.

"Wealthy people are going to pay much, much, much more tax," he says. "The 6% tax is not just going to stop at $90,000 (income). It's going to go up to $1 million or several million. That's going to affect this whole situation quite a lot."

As for wealthy folks collecting Social Security, Stein says that's headed for extinction, too.

"I would guess that in 20 years, there simply is not going to be any Social Security for wealthy people. That will be thoroughly means-tested, and probably should be," Stein says. "I mean, why should very rich people get Social Security? More and more, the whole program will be skewed toward helping poor and close-to-poor people and ignoring people who are already well-to-do."

As for the 63-year-old Stein, he has no plans to retire.

"I don't ever expect to stop working," he says. "I love my work. I don't believe there is a meaningful life without work. You're not a whole person without work."
Who will hire older workers?
Every boomer who delays retirement or starts an encore career will help offset the coming shortage of American workers, especially in areas such as education and public and social services.

The 2000 Senior Citizens Freedom to Work Act helped pave the way by allowing workers ages 65 through 69 the freedom to earn as much money as they wish without losing Social Security benefits.

But the coming worker crunch runs far deeper than a shortage of ready hands and welcoming smiles.

"It's not just a shortage of people who were born 18 years ago, it's a shortage of people with the skills companies need," says Melanie Holmes, a vice president at Manpower. "It's a combination of a warm-body shortage and a skills shortage."

Holmes says American companies are unprepared to attract and accommodate older workers or transfer the knowledge from retiring workers to their successors.

"The problem is, companies aren't looking for older workers," she says. "When we surveyed about the aging workplace in 2007, only 18% of the employers we talked to said they had a strategy to recruit older workers, and only 28% had a strategy to retain older workers."
The work ethic
Older workers have a wealth of job and life experience to offer employers. They tend to be more loyal and dependable, too, she says.

"The main advantage is (boomers) have a work ethic," Holmes says. "When our clients complain to us about the temporary employees we send to them, it's not because they don't have the skills necessary to do the job, it's that they don't show up on time, they're not dressed appropriately, they may not treat their co-workers with respect -- all that work ethic stuff that older workers have."

On the negative side, older workers may be set in their ways, resistant to training, less adept with technology and judgmental of younger co-workers. Employers fear the older worker will want a higher salary and cost them more in health coverage and special accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Still, the number of older workers is growing, according to U.S. Department of Labor statistics. A boomer herself, Holmes figures her generation is predisposed to continue working in some capacity as long as mind and body permit.

"Most of us have always been workaholics," she says. "We don't want to quit cold turkey."

The challenge for business, Holmes says, is to prepare now to attract and retain older talent before retiring boomers drain the bathtub of skilled workers.

"Are we part of the problem because we're retiring and there's going to be a talent shortage, or are we part of the solution?" Holmes says. "The answer is really yes to both of them.

"When we get to the height of the baby boomers retiring, I think companies are going to be seeing a lot of knowledge and productivity walk out the door. That's when they're going to start feeling the pain. Those are the people they need to retain by offering flexible work arrangements and changing the way some of the jobs are done to compensate for the decline in our physical abilities. Companies are going to have to work hard to get people to stay."

Mr Luzcious
08-06-2008, 08:10 PM
Retire while you still can.

cfl
08-06-2008, 08:15 PM
Its not unpatriotic but it has become much more difficult over the last 8 years.

Hydrae
08-06-2008, 08:18 PM
My dad just turned 69 and retired this year. But he is still working as a consultant for his last company 20 hours a week and is now consulting for another company 20 hours a week. My mom is hating it but I seriously don't see my dad truely ever retiring. But he has always worked in a think tank situation and loves his job. As long as his brain is still in good order he will have demand for his knowledge.

Me, I am about to hit 48 and look forward to being able to retire in 19 years (damn that is still a long time away).

cfl
08-06-2008, 08:23 PM
My dad just turned 69 and retired this year. But he is still working as a consultant for his last company 20 hours a week and is now consulting for another company 20 hours a week. My mom is hating it but I seriously don't see my dad truely ever retiring. But he has always worked in a think tank situation and loves his job. As long as his brain is still in good order he will have demand for his knowledge.

Me, I am about to hit 48 and look forward to being able to retire in 19 years (damn that is still a long time away).

Good for him!

I do think a lot of it depends on if you work with your mind or with your hands.

Bugeater
08-06-2008, 08:33 PM
I wasn't aware that there was a worker shortage in America.

Hydrae
08-06-2008, 08:35 PM
I wasn't aware that there was a worker shortage in America.

Qualified workers are retiring left and right. Yes, this is an issue that is on it's way to being felt in this country.

Guru
08-06-2008, 08:37 PM
Guess it depends on how early you are retiring. I guess if you can afford it though, more power to ya. Plus, it is another job out there to be had.

Bugeater
08-06-2008, 08:44 PM
Qualified workers are retiring left and right. Yes, this is an issue that is on it's way to being felt in this country.
I don't doubt the financial implications of the situation, but I find it hard to believe there aren't qualified replacement workers available with all the people that are losing jobs due to downsizing and outsourcing.

2bikemike
08-06-2008, 09:08 PM
Fug that. My plan is to work another 13 years and then hang it up. I am 47 now. I want to quit working while I can still enjoy Golfing, Skiing, Shooting and all the other stuff I miss because I work so damn much.

jiveturkey
08-06-2008, 10:08 PM
I don't doubt the financial implications of the situation, but I find it hard to believe there aren't qualified replacement workers available with all the people that are losing jobs due to downsizing and outsourcing.I've been in the headhunting biz for over 8 years now and the replacements for those retiring and basically retards with degrees. People who lost their job putting shit together aren't exactly qualified for financial analyst positions and the kids that just graduated can't write a resume or get through an interview without saying something completely stupid.

It's a good time to be a recruiter and a bad time to be a human.

Programmer
08-07-2008, 04:08 AM
I've been in the headhunting biz for over 8 years now and the replacements for those retiring and basically retards with degrees. People who lost their job putting shit together aren't exactly qualified for financial analyst positions and the kids that just graduated can't write a resume or get through an interview without saying something completely stupid.

It's a good time to be a recruiter and a bad time to be a human.

I do contract engineering. I integrate systems for process control in the engineered wood, automotive, munitions and petrochemical industries. Process and sequential control is not rocket science, but it does have a few "gotcha's" if you aren't aware of the process required to achieve the final product.

We have contracted with5 graduate engineers in the past 3 years that do not have a clue about integration and process control. Many times you have to used indirect references to track multiple variables of a process in a single program scan. The new guys don't have a clue of how to read the program, let alone writing a program to include those variables or displaying the variables in engineering units. Simple math equations convert from raw data to engineering units and they can't even do that.

Lack of workers in the U.S.? Maybe not, but qualified workers is a different story, at least in my profession.

Somewhere between the time I graduated and the most recent graduates there seems to be a problem with the system. Granted I've been doing this for a long time, but somewhere in the engineering curriculum there has to be classes that cover enough of the material for them to have a concept of process variables and how to integrate them into a useful system.

HonestChieffan
08-07-2008, 09:21 AM
Under an economy that is based on the beliefs of the left on entitlements and government as nanny, you young folks may never see a retirement that your parents enjoyed.

Bugeater
08-07-2008, 09:22 AM
I've been in the headhunting biz for over 8 years now and the replacements for those retiring and basically retards with degrees. People who lost their job putting shit together aren't exactly qualified for financial analyst positions and the kids that just graduated can't write a resume or get through an interview without saying something completely stupid.

It's a good time to be a recruiter and a bad time to be a human.

I wouldn't expect a kid just graduating from college to be able to immediately step in for someone who has been working in a field for 30+ years, and employers should know better than to expect that. They all knew of these impending retirements and should've been taking measures to hire and groom replacements for them instead of expecting someone to come in and immediately fill the position. God forbid they actually make an investment in their employees, that might hurt their bottom line. I don't envy what you must put up with on a daily basis doing what you do.

Bugeater
08-07-2008, 09:29 AM
Under an economy that is based on the beliefs of the left on entitlements and government as nanny, you young folks may never see a retirement that your parents enjoyed.
No generation will ever see the type of retirement that the boomers are enjoying.

Programmer
08-07-2008, 09:48 AM
No generation will ever see the type of retirement that the boomers are enjoying.

The baby boomer generation is just now starting to retire, I don't think you have your generation line correct. Baby boomers are generally those born after WWII and somewhere in the early 60's. That puts the oldest possible boomers at 62 if you use the data from the web's most popular source.



Baby boomer is a term used to describe a person who was born during the Post-World War II baby boom between 1946 and the early 1960s. Following World War II, several English-speaking countries -- the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand -- experienced an unusual spike in birth rates, a phenomenon commonly referred to as the baby boom. The terms "baby boomer" and "baby boom", along with others expressions, are also used in countries with demographics that did not mirror the sustained growth in American families over the same interval. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer)



It's all of us in that generation that will eventually take down the SS system. Those already enjoying retirement are the parents of boomers.

HonestChieffan
08-07-2008, 10:03 AM
thats almost true however the numbers of retirees over the past 5 years who are well under 62 have been pretty dramatic.

Bugeater
08-07-2008, 10:18 AM
The baby boomer generation is just now starting to retire, I don't think you have your generation line correct. Baby boomers are generally those born after WWII and somewhere in the early 60's. That puts the oldest possible boomers at 62 if you use the data from the web's most popular source.



Baby boomer is a term used to describe a person who was born during the Post-World War II baby boom between 1946 and the early 1960s. Following World War II, several English-speaking countries -- the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand -- experienced an unusual spike in birth rates, a phenomenon commonly referred to as the baby boom. The terms "baby boomer" and "baby boom", along with others expressions, are also used in countries with demographics that did not mirror the sustained growth in American families over the same interval. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer)



It's all of us in that generation that will eventually take down the SS system. Those already enjoying retirement are the parents of boomers.

Eh, it was a slight misuse of tense more that generation line, to be more specific I should've used "will enjoy/are enjoying" as HCF mentioned a fair number have already retired.

Programmer
08-07-2008, 10:33 AM
thats almost true however the numbers of retirees over the past 5 years who are well under 62 have been pretty dramatic.

Where did you get the data on that?

The only people I know that have retired before 62 have been those that have worked for the Big 3 and were UAW members. A few of my HS classmates have the 30 year plan through GM and Ford. The are the only others I've heard of were those that inherited substantial amounts of money and did not have to wait to retire.

Should I win the lottery I assure you I'll retire on the day the money hits my banks.

HonestChieffan
08-07-2008, 10:42 AM
Where did you get the data on that?

The only people I know that have retired before 62 have been those that have worked for the Big 3 and were UAW members. A few of my HS classmates have the 30 year plan through GM and Ford. The are the only others I've heard of were those that inherited substantial amounts of money and did not have to wait to retire.

Should I win the lottery I assure you I'll retire on the day the money hits my banks.

Maybe if you based your opinion on a wider base it would be more accurate. Many who started working in the early and mid 70's are retiring especially if they stayed with companies that have pension program and stayed in savings plans (prior to 401K's) and after 401Ks they stayed fully funded.

You didnt have to inherit it. You saved it and invested wisely over that time. Its not as hard as it seems if you start early and never stop funding your own future.

Programmer
08-07-2008, 11:19 AM
Maybe if you based your opinion on a wider base it would be more accurate. Many who started working in the early and mid 70's are retiring especially if they stayed with companies that have pension program and stayed in savings plans (prior to 401K's) and after 401Ks they stayed fully funded.

You didnt have to inherit it. You saved it and invested wisely over that time. Its not as hard as it seems if you start early and never stop funding your own future.

I'm sorry if the base of people that are boomers that have retired is limited. I was making a comment on those that I know not based on the overall populus.

What I asked was where did you get your data? Is it opinion, experience or a statistic you found somewhere?

HonestChieffan
08-07-2008, 11:21 AM
Im one of those who did it

Many of my peers did it

Any headhunter can give you the statistics. AARP has them as well.

Programmer
08-07-2008, 01:21 PM
Im one of those who did it

Many of my peers did it

Any headhunter can give you the statistics. AARP has them as well.

If they are that easy to find, throw up some links for those of us that don't want to search to prove your point.

Chief Faithful
08-07-2008, 01:25 PM
When I read articles like this I get worried that it is only a matter of time before the government raises the age from 59 to 65 to use 401K and IRA without penalty.

SBK
08-07-2008, 02:32 PM
How about instead of calling on people to slave to the government, we call on government to cut spending and fix the entitlement problems?

You should work your butt off to retire early. There's too much to enjoy to wait until you're too old to enjoy it to get a chance to actually enjoy it. If that makes any sense.

jiveturkey
08-07-2008, 05:18 PM
I wouldn't expect a kid just graduating from college to be able to immediately step in for someone who has been working in a field for 30+ years, and employers should know better than to expect that. They all knew of these impending retirements and should've been taking measures to hire and groom replacements for them instead of expecting someone to come in and immediately fill the position. God forbid they actually make an investment in their employees, that might hurt their bottom line. I don't envy what you must put up with on a daily basis doing what you do.Trust me, my clients are all about bringing people in and grooming them. The expectations are low and these mouth breathers still can't pass an interview.

Here's a couple of reasons why.

Late to the interview (good one)
Piss poor grammar
Making stupid salary demands (a Communications degree from UNLV doesn't guarantee you $60k in the first year)
Dressing like they're going to a d-bag fashion show (the collar goes down in my office)

Every week a star comes through my doors though and I congratulate them for winning the game of life. There's nothing better than interviewing an articulate, hard working professional.

little jacob
08-07-2008, 05:59 PM
You should retire as soon as you can afford to and want to do so. If you don't expect others to pay your bills and you've worked hard and earned it, go ahead and do it. I'll be jealous of you fishing and taking vacations because you have earned it.

That's patriotic - working hard, paying your own way, and enjoying the blessings you have brought to yourself and your family.