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BWillie
08-16-2008, 02:25 PM
Greinke was pitching well for the most part through 7 but getting screwed. Gordon made two errors on one play, Tony Pena another error, and John Buck couldn't catch a perfect breaking ball. WTF

Ramirez coming in now

2-2

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:26 PM
3 errors this inning, 2 by gordon 1 on pena jr

What a sack of shit inning...we deserve to lose...

Also a "wild pitch" that really is a passed ball by john buck

thurman merman
08-16-2008, 02:27 PM
john buck calls such a good game though!

Bill Parcells
08-16-2008, 02:27 PM
3 errors this inning, 2 by gordon 1 on pena jr

What a sack of shit inning...we deserve to lose...

Also a "wild pitch" that really is a passed ball by john buck

Teh Yankees suck. never count yourself out while clueless Joe is in charge.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 02:27 PM
I couldn't believe our defensive specialist committed an error. He usually looks like the Wizard out there. /Fever/

BWillie
08-16-2008, 02:28 PM
john buck calls such a good game though!

And can't throw out runners. I'm about done with John Buck. If he's not hitting 18 HR's a year he shouldn't be on this team.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:28 PM
John Suck is nothing more than a backup in the majors...

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 02:29 PM
On a more positive note, Greinke and Meche continue to pitch really well. Hope the team gets Zack locked up long term.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:30 PM
Ramirez saves our ass, too bad for greinke

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:31 PM
On a more positive note, Greinke and Meche continue to pitch really well. Hope the team gets Zack locked up long term.

No shit...I like seeing Meche pitching tons better

thurman merman
08-16-2008, 02:35 PM
John Suck is nothing more than a backup in the majors...

are people finally starting to agree with me?

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:35 PM
are people finally starting to agree with me?
Ive agreed for awhile....just because he is the less sucky catcher on our roster doesn't mean he is avg or good

Ari Chi3fs
08-16-2008, 02:38 PM
maybe someday we will draft / develop a good catcher. ****.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:39 PM
Ross Gload is a sack of shit too, i dont want him on the roster next year either

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 02:40 PM
are people finally starting to agree with me?

Who would argue that it would be nice to see a more talented catcher on this team? On the list of who is the shittiest and in most need or replacement, however, there are others in front of Buck, IMO.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 02:40 PM
Pena goes deep fly to the SS.

Reaper16
08-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Ive agreed for awhile....just because he is the less sucky catcher on our roster doesn't mean he is avg or good
I just checked Buck's VORP.

... ugh, it's -3.6. Not as bad as Jason Varitek (who has a -5.o VORP; biggest joke of an all-star selection ever) but still not good.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Pena jr with the HR to the pitchers mound!!11

here comes john suck

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:41 PM
I just checked Buck's VORP.

... ugh, it's -3.6. Not as bad as Jason Varitek (who has a -5.o VORP; biggest joke of an all-star selection ever) but still not good.

Varitek sucks bad but he's been a good player and now he's an old fart hangin on

CoMoChief
08-16-2008, 02:41 PM
And can't throw out runners. I'm about done with John Buck. If he's not hitting 18 HR's a year he shouldn't be on this team.

I've been saying this all along but there are a lot of people on this board that like him because "pitchers love to pitch to him"

CoMoChief
08-16-2008, 02:42 PM
Pena jr with the HR to the pitchers mound!

ROFL

Ari Chi3fs
08-16-2008, 02:42 PM
"Varitek Calls a good game"

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:43 PM
I've been saying this all along but there are a lot of people on this board that like him because "pitchers love to pitch to him"

I'm sure he loves playing catcher with all the guys

Reaper16
08-16-2008, 02:44 PM
Varitek sucks bad but he's been a good player and now he's an old fart hangin on
Absolutely. Varitek used to be good.

Buck also used to have potential. Heh.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:45 PM
Wow, i could've hit that soft grounder to SS

**** you Buck, you ****ing sack of shit...i bet he had meche shave his balls to

Reaper16
08-16-2008, 02:45 PM
Kenji Jojhima of the Mariners has like a -12 VORP. Wow, that was a Japanese signing that didn't pan out.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:46 PM
Is that ron howards brother dancing???

Reaper16
08-16-2008, 02:47 PM
BTW - Olivo is 19th amongst all catchers with a +8.8 VORP

T-post Tom
08-16-2008, 02:48 PM
Zach goes 6 2/3 on a stellar performance. Love to watch this guy pitch. I hope he gets an extremely long term deal...very soon.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 02:48 PM
What's the ERA when Buck is catching now? I'd heard this has gone way down, and this was the one statistic that Buck supports clinged to, like the final strands of hair on his gigantic dome.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 02:50 PM
Nothing solidifies the troops quite like a Buck, Pena dogpile. What about Teahen. Let's get going on that sack of shit, too. I keed. Well...sort of...

Ari Chi3fs
08-16-2008, 02:50 PM
I just figured out my Chiefsplanet Poster VORP +27.8

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:52 PM
Nothing solidifies the troops quite like a Buck, Pena dogpile. What about Teahen. Let's get going on that sack of shit, too. I keed. Well...sort of...

Teahen would make a hell of a backup for this team

Get rid of buck or demote him to backup, cut Gload, send Maier back where he belongs in AAA, cut Pena, what else am i missing?

thurman merman
08-16-2008, 02:52 PM
Nothing solidifies the troops quite like a Buck, Pena dogpile. What about Teahen. Let's get going on that sack of shit, too. I keed. Well...sort of...

teahen is awful, but not nearly as awful as pena or buck.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 02:53 PM
Make sure we have plenty of ointment for DeJesus.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:53 PM
WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF that was a strike

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:54 PM
Make sure we have plenty of anal lube for DeJesus.

FYP

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 02:55 PM
FYP

Naturally, that too.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 02:59 PM
wow bases loaded, time for a grand slam

tk13
08-16-2008, 03:02 PM
I always thought people were way too hard on Buck, and this year he's probably getting by too easy. The thing I don't get is why Buck's CS percentage has gone way downhill. He was never Pudge or anything... but he always put up solid CS numbers. Especially working with so many more different pitchers than most catchers... and often young, inexperienced pitchers.

I think this year has been disappointing... otherwise, if he could go back to being the guy who could hit .250, 18 HR, 35% CS... that's a good catcher, very respectable. That's what Mike Macfarlane did and he was a very well respected catcher. It's not elite, but it's better than most. But when you're on a really bad team you're under more pressure.

I doubt we totally get rid of him, but we'll see. Greinke seems to love him.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 03:05 PM
the guy who could hit .250, 18 HR, 35% CS...

If he could do that consistently, it would look like the Royals had a freaking All-Star. No one could complain.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 03:07 PM
If he could do that consistently, it would look like the Royals had a freaking All-Star. No one could complain.

No shit, but he can't throw anyone out this year, has had way too many passed balls and stupid goof ups and has no batting avg or power. He's pena jr at the catcher position

Jenson71
08-16-2008, 03:08 PM
We got out of it!

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 03:10 PM
No shit, but he can't throw anyone out this year, has had way too many passed balls and stupid goof ups and has no batting avg or power. He's pena jr at the catcher position

Too bad he's never put up the numbers we all think would be acceptable. His best season is: .245 11 HR and 50 RBI (2006)

Jenson71
08-16-2008, 03:15 PM
Well, that sucks.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 03:15 PM
Nice job dejesus swinging at ball 4, that was way the **** out of the strike zone...maier was left hangin

tk13
08-16-2008, 03:19 PM
If he could do that consistently, it would look like the Royals had a freaking All-Star. No one could complain.
.235, 12 HR, 32% CS
.242, 12 HR, 34% CS
.245, 11 HR, 34% CS
.222, 18 HR, 21% CS
.220, 8 HR, 17% CS

And I'm not sure how to evaluate it, but he's been hitting .250 most of the season until this horrible slump the last two weeks. Those aren't all-star numbers, but they aren't bad really. You can't cut a guy for a bad two weeks. You put that with a decent backup and you're getting .240ish, 20 HR's out of your catcher position, which is good.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 03:27 PM
.235, 12 HR, 32% CS
.242, 12 HR, 34% CS
.245, 11 HR, 34% CS
.222, 18 HR, 21% CS
.220, 8 HR, 17% CS

And I'm not sure how to evaluate it, but he's been hitting .250 most of the season until this horrible slump the last two weeks. Those aren't all-star numbers, but they aren't bad really. You can't cut a guy for a bad two weeks. You put that with a decent backup and you're getting .240ish, 20 HR's out of your catcher position, which is good.

These numbers demand a high-quality backup. When the avg. and CS numbers are sufficient, the power numbers aren't very good. Last year the power numbers are up, which is a bit misleading b/c 15 or 16 of his HR's came before the break, but everything else is terrible.

There's been a lot of Olivo vs. Buck discussion in this forum, and I'm of the belief that Hillman might have gotten the most out of two rather below-average players.

thurman merman
08-16-2008, 03:28 PM
.235, 12 HR, 32% CS
.242, 12 HR, 34% CS
.245, 11 HR, 34% CS
.222, 18 HR, 21% CS
.220, 8 HR, 17% CS

And I'm not sure how to evaluate it, but he's been hitting .250 most of the season until this horrible slump the last two weeks. Those aren't all-star numbers, but they aren't bad really. You can't cut a guy for a bad two weeks. You put that with a decent backup and you're getting .240ish, 20 HR's out of your catcher position, which is good.

WTF? how are those not bad numbers? his career high batting average is .245. that is very bad. and that was his best year.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 03:31 PM
The other thing about Buck that has been frustrating is that he does not do a good job of blocking the baseball. I'm not sure how to quantify it because most ML catchers are lazy and don't square up the ball and get the glove down to protect the 5-hole, but Buck needs to do this b/c he doesn't do a great job with everything else. He gets far less slack.

See Greinke's "wild pitch" that tied the game today. Bullshit.

blaise
08-16-2008, 03:39 PM
Plenty of catchers have numbers just like Buck's. If a catcher hits near .300 and 20-25 HR in his career he's a borderline Hall of Famer. If the Royals got rid of Buck he'd have another job in 5 minutes. He's got his flaws and he should be better but his disappointing performance isn't anywhere near as damaging as Gordon's or Teahen's or Butler's first half.
On another note- every time Jeter gets an RBI it's "Mr. Clutch. Mr. Clutch." When he grounds into a DP like he did in the 9th today he just gets a pass.

tk13
08-16-2008, 03:52 PM
I don't think .245 is "very" bad, or horrible... for most position players but not a catcher. I don't know what the exact number is, but I think .250-260 is a average solid BA for a catcher. There usually aren't a whole lot of .300 hitting catchers, or catchers who take a lot of walks. I think ideally you'd want a guy who calls a good game, throws runners out, and then adds some pop to the bottom of the order.

thurman merman
08-16-2008, 04:00 PM
I don't think .245 is "very" bad, or horrible... for most position players but not a catcher. I don't know what the exact number is, but I think .250-260 is a average solid BA for a catcher. There usually aren't a whole lot of .300 hitting catchers, or catchers who take a lot of walks. I think ideally you'd want a guy who calls a good game, throws runners out, and then adds some pop to the bottom of the order.

.245 is bad for a major leaguer, unless they are a pitcher.

anyway, buck is hitting like .219 now, so .245 is just a memory at this point.

Reaper16
08-16-2008, 04:04 PM
.245 is bad for a major leaguer, unless they are a pitcher.

anyway, buck is hitting like .219 now, so .245 is just a memory at this point.
What's more pathetic than Buck hitting .219?

Buck has a higher OBP (.296) than Guillen (.291)! Ugh.

chiefbowe82
08-16-2008, 04:08 PM
has soria pitched yet

blaise
08-16-2008, 04:13 PM
What I'm saying is that if you're relying on your catcher for offense, you're probably not going to win many games. Hitting around .220 is unacceptable but a catcher that hits well is a luxury. Every team in the majors would like that.
It's like complaing that your fullback hasn't scored any touchdowns while your tailback is averaging 3 yards a carry and your QB has more interceptions than TDs.

tk13
08-16-2008, 04:17 PM
What I'm saying is that if you're relying on your catcher for offense, you're probably not going to win many games. Hitting around .220 is unacceptable but a catcher that hits well is a luxury. Every team in the majors would like that.
It's like complaing that your fullback hasn't scored any touchdowns while your tailback is averaging 3 yards a carry and your QB has more interceptions than TDs.
This probably puts it more accurately (and more concise) than I would. I'm not saying I wouldn't take some of these other guys in a second... but it's one of those things where our catchers are at least in the neighborhood of average, if not above average in power. And we have far more pressing needs (like 1B) to be a good baseball team. Getting a 30 HR slugger to play 1B is going to have a much bigger impact on this team than finding a catcher that hits 20 points higher and pops about 3-5 more HR's a year. At least I think so, I could be wrong.

chiefqueen
08-16-2008, 04:21 PM
You would think after he batted 6 times they would learn how to pronounce Aviles.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 04:26 PM
Peralta is horrible

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 04:38 PM
He still sucks but gets the strike out, to the 13th

Ari Chi3fs
08-16-2008, 04:39 PM
Peralta! **** Yeah! an A-ball player in the major leagues! Yeah!

Ari Chi3fs
08-16-2008, 04:48 PM
Why does Gordon ALWAYS go after pitches around the ankles? Good Lord.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 04:50 PM
Yes way to **** up again, id rather have gload get out so he doesn't have to bat

thurman merman
08-16-2008, 04:52 PM
FULCHINO TIME

Ari Chi3fs
08-16-2008, 04:53 PM
Gordon... oh the ball bounced halfway home to the plate? Its rolling toward me?!!?

**** yeah!! Might as well swing at it!!!1

thurman merman
08-16-2008, 04:54 PM
FULCHINO HOSES SOME WHITE GUY

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 05:02 PM
Yankees win off a stupid pussy base hit to left and Dejesus's throw was offline

Cya Fulchino...

Yeah go yankees only 11 back still, **** you

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 05:02 PM
Fire Trey and these losers, he's just a younger buddy bell

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 05:07 PM
Fire Trey and these losers, he's just a younger buddy bell

Not a Hillman fan, huh? Rany has blistered him throughout the season, as well. We'll see. He has a penchant for doing some goofy things during the game.

More time is needed. We're still asking him, or any manager for that matter, to be a chicken-salad chef. I think we have 28 HR's when you combine our starting LF, RF, and 1B (Gload). WTF can anyone do with that?

Ari Chi3fs
08-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Being a Royals fan these past 20 years is the equivalent of eating shards of glass and waiting to poop.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 05:50 PM
Not a Hillman fan, huh? Rany has blistered him throughout the season, as well. We'll see. He has a penchant for doing some goofy things during the game.

More time is needed. We're still asking him, or any manager for that matter, to be a chicken-salad chef. I think we have 28 HR's when you combine our starting LF, RF, and 1B (Gload). WTF can anyone do with that?

That was more so frustration after the loss....

I will give him another year or two...see if he gets some talent.

Mecca
08-16-2008, 06:09 PM
Why is Ross Gload an everyday player....

SithCeNtZ
08-16-2008, 06:21 PM
Not a Hillman fan, huh? Rany has blistered him throughout the season, as well. We'll see. He has a penchant for doing some goofy things during the game.

More time is needed. We're still asking him, or any manager for that matter, to be a chicken-salad chef. I think we have 28 HR's when you combine our starting LF, RF, and 1B (Gload). WTF can anyone do with that?

That's an understatement.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 06:27 PM
That's an understatement.

Yeah, it would be interesting to consider if he truly doesn't know what the **** he's doing or if a serious lack of talent causes an otherwise knowledgable manager to lose his mind. In other words, as the season progressed has he made increasingly more "unconventional" moves? This could well be a sign of desperation.

Pinch hitting with Pena because "he is due" stands out as one possible result of trying to make too much chicken salad. Who could logically come to this conclusion otherwise?

The Royals have had this effect on many a manager over the years.

little jacob
08-16-2008, 06:35 PM
Why is Ross Gload an everyday player....

i would say because he is versatile and they can't overhaul the whole roster in a year.

little jacob
08-16-2008, 06:37 PM
Yeah, it would be interesting to consider if he truly doesn't know what the **** he's doing or if a serious lack of talent causes an otherwise knowledgable manager to lose his mind. In other words, as the season progressed has he made increasingly more "unconventional" moves? This could well be a sign of desperation.

Pinch hitting with Pena because "he is due" stands out as one possible result of trying to make too much chicken salad. Who could logically come to this conclusion otherwise?

The Royals have had this effect on many a manager over the years.

when a game goes inning after extra inning, eventually, someone's going to make a bad move, the other team is going to win, and someone will look stupid.

if a reliever goes out and sucks, it's not really the manager's fault at least not totally, at some point you have to blame the guy who actually make the screwups because it's his job to get it done.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 06:42 PM
Why is Ross Gload an everyday player....

I hope he isn't back and is replaced with someone that deserves to start...

Teahen should be our new Gload off the bench

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 07:00 PM
when a game goes inning after extra inning, eventually, someone's going to make a bad move, the other team is going to win, and someone will look stupid.

if a reliever goes out and sucks, it's not really the manager's fault at least not totally, at some point you have to blame the guy who actually make the screwups because it's his job to get it done.

We're talking about the season as a whole, not today's game.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 07:00 PM
I hope he isn't back and is replaced with someone that deserves to start...

Teahen should be our new Gload off the bench

Teahen is Gload Ultra.

thurman merman
08-16-2008, 10:27 PM
Why is Ross Gload an everyday player....

because he is on the royals.