PDA

View Full Version : Misc I just registered for the LSAT


irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 04:50 PM
Any advice? (Yes, I know "be smart." ;) )

Good prep sites, books or the like?

kstater
08-16-2008, 04:53 PM
Don't get drunk the night before, it never works out well.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 04:55 PM
Stay off ChiefsPlanet.

BigVE
08-16-2008, 04:55 PM
Get plenty of rest, don't drink for at least 2 days before and eat a good balanced meal about 3 hours before you test....oh, and prayer. lol Good luck.

Skip Towne
08-16-2008, 04:56 PM
Where are you planning to go to law school?

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 04:56 PM
Don't get drunk the night before, it never works out well.

That won't be a problem. I don't drink much. Health reasons. :(

Stay off ChiefsPlanet.

So I've said to myself many a time.

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 04:57 PM
Where are you planning to go to law school?

I would assume I'd stay at KU and enter there. I was strongly considering the JD/MBA 2 year program, but I've heard the two are kinda pointless to pair.

Skip Towne
08-16-2008, 05:03 PM
I would assume I'd stay at KU and enter there. I was strongly considering the JD/MBA 2 year program, but I've heard the two are kinda pointless to pair.

The FBI would like that 2 year deal. If you have any interest in them.

eazyb81
08-16-2008, 05:07 PM
Princeton Review works well. You suck if you can't surpass 170. :)

Seriously though, don't go to law school if your heart's not in it. It's not the huge money maker that many think it is, and 3 years is a grind if you're not fully committed.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2008, 05:07 PM
Entertainment Law?

:)

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 05:09 PM
Entertainment Law?

Actually, I haven't specifically thought about it. It's just one way to figure out what the hell I'm going to do.

Ideally, I'd love to produce down in Hollywood as I'm an idea man by nature. But, alas, I have no capital. I'm confident but I'm a pessimist/realist and I don't think I'll survive down there without at least something else schooling wise under my belt. I'm also going to talk to my advisor about USC, but who knows if I'm good enough to get in.

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 05:10 PM
Princeton Review works well. You suck if you can't surpass 170. :)

Seriously though, don't go to law school if your heart's not in it. It's not the huge money maker that many think it is, and 3 years is a grind if you're not fully committed.

Well, my heart isn't in anything right now. And that's kinda the problem. :guntoheadsmilie:

eazyb81
08-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Well, my heart isn't in anything right now. And that's kinda the problem. :guntoheadsmilie:

Well Jim Cramer says law school is the best place to go if you don't know what you want to do, so maybe you're on to something.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2008, 05:16 PM
Actually, I haven't specifically thought about it. It's just one way to figure out what the hell I'm going to do.

Ideally, I'd love to produce down in Hollywood as I'm an idea man by nature. But, alas, I have no capital. I'm confident but I'm a pessimist/realist and I don't think I'll survive down there without at least something else schooling wise under my belt. I'm also going to talk to my advisor about USC, but who knows if I'm good enough to get in.

A close friend of mine (we worked at Paramount together back in the late 90's) is V.P. of TelePictures. He received his undergrad from the University of Miami (music), played the cruise ships for 5 years, then obtained a degree from Southwestern University here in SoCal. It's a very good school, though not that well known.

Another friend from the Paramount days received her undergrad at Loyola Marymount, then 5 years later went back and received her law degree (she used the college funding program at Paramount to pay for law school). She's now over at Lionsgate.

The bottom line is that there are alternatives to USC if you don't get in, but you're more likely to hook up up and coming film makers at USC, which could lead to your dream of producing.

And you're correct - anyone with dough can produce. The problem is that unless you have an absolute ton of cash to lose, it's best to get in early with these guys and work with along the way. The producers stand the most to gain and the most to lose.

Good luck!

Skip Towne
08-16-2008, 05:17 PM
Well, my heart isn't in anything right now. And that's kinda the problem. :guntoheadsmilie:

I know how you feel. After going to school for 16 years, more school isn't very appealing. What is your degree in?

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 05:20 PM
I know how you feel. After going to school for 16 years, more school isn't very appealing. What is your degree in?

Film with a Business minor.

It's funny because my MAJOR and MINOR GPAs are really good but the gen eds killed me. I didn't know of some crucial university policies and tricks. Sad that general education requirements are what kill you, especially since you won't use half that stuff anyway. That and you can't point out things like "missed an A by a whopping .3 percentage points," which I am the king of.

And I learned - too late - that I would have owned a Business major. Oh well.

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 05:24 PM
A close friend of mine (we worked at Paramount together back in the late 90's) is V.P. of TelePictures. He received his undergrad from the University of Miami (music), played the cruise ships for 5 years, then obtained a degree from Southwestern University here in SoCal. It's a very good school, though not that well known.

Another friend from the Paramount days received her undergrad at Loyola Marymount, then 5 years later went back and received her law degree (she used the college funding program at Paramount to pay for law school). She's now over at Lionsgate.

The bottom line is that there are alternatives to USC if you don't get in, but you're more likely to hook up up and coming film makers at USC, which could lead to your dream of producing.

And you're correct - anyone with dough can produce. The problem is that unless you have an absolute ton of cash to lose, it's best to get in early with these guys and work with along the way. The producers stand the most to gain and the most to lose.

Good luck!

Out of curiosity, what would you put as the 5 top film schools? I figured the first two are USC and NYU followed perhaps by Columbia in Chicago.

Uncle_Ted
08-16-2008, 05:30 PM
Take lots of practice tests.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2008, 05:40 PM
Out of curiosity, what would you put as the 5 top film schools? I figured the first two are USC and NYU followed perhaps by Columbia in Chicago.

I'd add UCLA to that group as well.

There's also a Los Angeles Film School, which is just down the hill from me at Sunset & Ivar.

They do a very good job of placing their students in various jobs (editing, production, etc.).

Hog Rider
08-16-2008, 05:42 PM
Answer wisely!

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 05:44 PM
Princeton Review works well. You suck if you can't surpass 170. :)

Seriously though, don't go to law school if your heart's not in it. It's not the huge money maker that many think it is, and 3 years is a grind if you're not fully committed.

I have a few law school grad friends that are having a tough time getting on somewhere for a job that makes even avg money.

My gf wanted to be a lawyer, still does, but where she works now she probably will make more money longterm if she stays in that field, healthcare business analyst

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2008, 05:48 PM
I have a few law school grad friends that are having a tough time getting on somewhere for a job that makes even avg money.

My gf wanted to be a lawyer, still does, but where she works now she probably will make more money longterm if she stays in that field, healthcare business analyst

I think that all depends on where you obtain your degree.

A Georgetown, Yale, Harvard, Stanford, University of Texas, USC or UCLA grad usually don't encounter any problems. I have a friend who's sister graduated from UT last year and her first job was $250k for a NYC firm. Not too shabby. I've got a close friend who make double that got his degree from Georgetown.

If it's a small school that's less well known, you're probably going to have a some problem.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2008, 05:50 PM
I think that all depends on where you obtain your degree.

A Georgetown, Yale, Harvard, Stanford, University of Texas, USC or UCLA grad usually don't encounter any problems. I have a friend who's sister graduated from UT last year and her first job was $250k for a NYC firm. Not too shabby. I've got a close friend who make double that got his degree from Georgetown.

If it's a small school that's less well known, you're probably going to have a some problem.

Yeah one went to some school in Illinois that i dont remember and then the other is from UMKC...

My gf wants to go and if she does it will probably be in California when we move there, probably

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2008, 05:53 PM
Yeah one went to some school in Illinois that i dont remember and then the other is from UMKC...

My gf wants to go and if she does it will probably be in California when we move there, probably

Cool! Good luck!

Cards Fan 4 Chiefs
08-16-2008, 06:30 PM
The LSAT isn't that difficult, the key is maximizing your time. The faster you think, the better off you will be.

milmil13
08-16-2008, 06:42 PM
If you go through Kaplan to prepare for the LSAT, make sure they give you an experienced instructor. I had one that had just taken the previous LSAT that year and she seemed pretty unqualified. I also think there is nothing wrong with just studying on your own if you get the right prep books.

cdcox
08-16-2008, 06:50 PM
I would assume I'd stay at KU and enter there. I was strongly considering the JD/MBA 2 year program, but I've heard the two are kinda pointless to pair.

JD + CPA = tax accountant

My cousin's husband went this route and probably pulls around $200K.

As far as preparation goes, I have a colleague that is really high on the Stanley Kaplan courses. He had a daughter than went to Harvard and a son that went to Columbia Unvirsity.

Law school is one of those things that is only worth doing if you are going to do it 100%. Get into the best school you can and do the best you can. Graduating in the middle of the class at an average school is probably not worth doing.

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 06:53 PM
JD + CPA = tax accountant

My cousin's husband went this route and probably pulls around $200K.

As far as preparation goes, I have a colleague that is really high on the Stanley Kaplan courses. He had a daughter than went to Harvard and a son that went to Columbia Unvirsity.

Law school is one of those things that is only worth doing if you are going to do it 100%. Get into the best school you can and do the best you can. Graduating in the middle of the class at an average school is probably not worth doing.

And that's what worries me. I'm not sure about any of it.


Out of curiosity and for anybody, what exactly does an MBA do other than say "hey I went to school longer"?

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 07:12 PM
Film with a Business minor.

It's funny because my MAJOR and MINOR GPAs are really good but the gen eds killed me. I didn't know of some crucial university policies and tricks. Sad that general education requirements are what kill you, especially since you won't use half that stuff anyway. That and you can't point out things like "missed an A by a whopping .3 percentage points," which I am the king of.

And I learned - too late - that I would have owned a Business major. Oh well.

Yeah, I have a really hard time getting movitaved to do things that aren't going to benefit me sometime in the near future, so gen eds really killed me. I sort of get how they're supposed to make you a well-rounded person, but like you said, it really sucks that there are so many and that they can really kill your gpa.



Out of curiosity and for anybody, what exactly does an MBA do other than say "hey I went to school longer"?

More money, and for me, it was a good way to balance my undergrad computer science degree with MIS and business classes.

I went back for an MBA because my job at the time sucked, but I'm very glad I did it. Unlike undergrad Biology and so forth, all of the MBA classes are relevant, IMO. It's also helpful on my resume to have my MBA gpa above my undergrad gpa.

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 07:23 PM
Yeah, I have a really hard time getting movitaved to do things that aren't going to benefit me sometime in the near future, so gen eds really killed me. I sort of get how they're supposed to make you a well-rounded person, but like you said, it really sucks that there are so many and that they can really kill your gpa.




More money, and for me, it was a good way to balance my undergrad computer science degree with MIS and business classes.

I went back for an MBA because my job at the time sucked, but I'm very glad I did it. Unlike undergrad Biology and so forth, all of the MBA classes are relevant, IMO. It's also helpful on my resume to have my MBA gpa above my undergrad gpa.

If I may, what did you end up going into after the MBA (where are you now)?

The Pedestrian
08-16-2008, 07:43 PM
Seriously, start with one or two practice tests to see what your weaknesses are and study until your head hurts. Then have a well-balanced meal, rest, and study for at least another week or two. Of course, go back to study your strengths every now and then as well...even if they're your strong points, practice makes slightly better, and studying different subjects/subject-types from time to time will help you retain new information about your weak points.

The Pedestrian
08-16-2008, 07:48 PM
Princeton Review works well. You suck if you can't surpass 170. :)

Seriously though, don't go to law school if your heart's not in it. It's not the huge money maker that many think it is, and 3 years is a grind if you're not fully committed.

It seemed alright for analytical games and logical reasoning, but I detest--no, hate--the representation of the reading comprehension.

Barron's was pretty good with all of the sections.

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 08:14 PM
If I may, what did you end up going into after the MBA (where are you now)?

I got a decent job while I was taking MBA classes... great company (Hallmark), but the job wasn't all that great (tech support), and it didn't have much potential. I learned pretty quickly that you could only take a few steps forward before running into a bottleneck of people who have been waiting 10+ years to move to the next level. I got a couple of generous raises, and the only reason I bring it up is because I think part of it had to do with getting an MBA. Unlike a lot of people who were just happy to be working there, they knew I was serious about moving up.

Anyway, I left for a company I had previously applied at a couple of times right after my undergrad. I definitely think the MBA helped, since I hadn't gotten past the 2nd interview the previous two times.

It's an IT job, installing/coding/testing/fixing software for customers... not all that glamorous, but getting your foot in the door is most of the battle. I paid for my sh*tty undergrad gpa (it also wasn't the best time for IT, which included a large Sprint layoff just before I graduated), but now I have an ideal job where I have the opportunity to travel the world, working for a company that has customers in ~90 countries.

When you start as one of 200 people applying for a job and you're one of the last 10, you better have something that really sticks out like a great gpa, lots of activities, or multiple degrees.

jAZ
08-16-2008, 08:21 PM
In addition to the regular prep program (don't remember which one), my wife practiced with the logic puzzles in the games magazines.

Ended up top 1% on the exam.

irishjayhawk
08-16-2008, 08:22 PM
In addition to the regular prep program (don't remember which one), my wife practiced with the logic puzzles in the games magazines.

Ended up top 1% on the exam.

Logic puzzles like what?

jAZ
08-16-2008, 08:54 PM
Logic puzzles like what?

The magazines had puzzles that were very similar to one of the types of questions on the exam. It was her weakest area, so she just did them constantly.

She's not around for me to ask exactly what they were. Maybe someone here can add a bit more info.

PM if I don't bump this with answer tomorrow and I'll ask her when she's around, or go dig out her materials.

Yosef_Malkovitch
08-16-2008, 08:56 PM
Well, I havenít actually POSTED on CP in years, although I do still lurk some. Guess Iíll have to break my silence for this one. This will be somewhat lengthy, but I think youíll find itís worth your time to read it if youíre serious about law school.

I went to law school. Not Harvard, but not bottom of the barrel either. I went to Georgia State which, last time I looked, is first tier. Itís in the lower half of that tier, but itís still first tier.

I got an MBA, too. And I was at the top of my class (top 15%ish). And I did Law Review. I did all that stuff thatís supposed to guarantee a good job. At this point, all I have to show for my trouble is about $100k in debt and a few pieces of paper hanging on the wall. Those degrees look nice, but they donít pay the bills.

I will not say for sure that law school was a mistakeóthe day may come when Iím glad I wentóbut at this point it was the worst decision of my life. I make no more right now than I would have if I had never gone to grad school.

The cost of law school is not limited to the tuition, either: thereís also the opportunity costs. Three years of not making much money at all (especially the first year, when you donít have time for much other than studying).

Many people think that lawyers make killer money and, to be sure, it is definitely possible. Unfortunately, many lawyers simply donít live up to the stereotype. Many, many lawyers donít make the kind of salary most people think they do.

Still, it is possible to make ridiculous amounts of money. Not many professions offer you the possibility of starting at six figures straight out of school. However, be aware that if you do happen to get into one of the jobs starting at $150k you will more than likely be working horrendous hours.

I have a friend who started around $140k and he pretty much lives at work (or he did last time we spoke about it anyways). I wonít bore you with the horror stories. Iíll just say this: do some research on those six-figure lawyer jobs. Jobs at big-name firms like Holland & Knight or King & Spalding or White & Case. Be sure youíre willing to put in those kinds of hours. There is a reason turnover is so high at those firms.

Of course, thereís the other side of the story. Iím sure there are lawyers who make great money and who donít have to work crazy hours. And, to be honest, if youíre really happy doing what you do, you probably wonít mind either (1) working long hours; or (2) not making much money for someone with your level of education. There is something to be said for job satisfaction, after all.

I think the best advice I can give you is this: go talk to some lawyers. Donít talk to one or two and then quit. Talk to several, probably no fewer than ten. Ask them what they like, what they donít like, and what they wish they knew when they started out. Ask them if, knowing everything they know now, they would still go to law school.

Yes, itís a big investment of your time to run around interviewing lawyers. But then again itís a *huge* investment to spend three years and thousands upon thousands of dollars to get a degree if youíre not absolutely certain you want to do it.

Most lawyers would be happy to spend 15 or 20 minutes talking with you. Just email them, tell them youíre considering law school, and ask to set up a telephone appointment just to hear what they have to say about the field.

Donít limit yourself to lawyers in only one area of the law or only one size of law firm, either. Get a good cross-section. Find out what itís really like to practice law. Get the pros and the cons. Then, and only then, can you make an informed decision as to whether law school is right for you.

patteeu
08-16-2008, 09:26 PM
Where are you planning to go to law school?

Are there any decent law schools that accept KU grads? I'd imagine his options are pretty limited. ;)

patteeu
08-16-2008, 09:28 PM
I would assume I'd stay at KU and enter there. I was strongly considering the JD/MBA 2 year program, but I've heard the two are kinda pointless to pair.

That's quite a bargain. A JD alone usually takes 3 years.

Fat Elvis
08-16-2008, 11:45 PM
Go into family law. My lawyer is making $175/hour for my divorce.

irishjayhawk
08-17-2008, 12:01 AM
That's quite a bargain. A JD alone usually takes 3 years.

It may actually be 3, I can't recall exactly.

Chazno
08-17-2008, 12:06 AM
My wife just graduated last year from UMKC. Her group of friends all graduated at the top of the class (top 15%) and had little to know trouble getting jobs. Some went hardcore working 80 hours a week making 6 figures, some work 40 hours making 40k. Everything Yosef said pretty much mirrors what i have seen the last 4 years.

jAZ
08-17-2008, 08:46 AM
Logic puzzles like what?

I guess my wife didn't do any exam prep program, she just did her own thing. She did a prep program for the Bar exam.

Anyway, she just said it was those logic puzzles in the game magazines that you find at the grocery store.

I found some examples online here:

http://www.crpuzzles.com/logic/index.html

Skip Towne
08-17-2008, 08:55 AM
Just forget law school and go to Atlanta and go to work for an ad agency. You can be dumb as hell and make 70K.

Jenson71
08-17-2008, 09:01 AM
Make sure the prep books you get contain real questions that were on previous LSATs. Kaplan seems to be everyone's favorite.

If you have $1500 to spend, take a course.

Are you taking it in October? Will you be a senior by then?

A good LSAT score can really help a poor GPA.

Here's the class profile for KU: http://www.law.ku.edu/admissions/profile.shtml

If you're GPA is less than 3.45, than you'd want to get an LSAT over 157.

If it's less than 3.00, you need to do great -at least 168 great and with a fantastic essay including why your GPA wasn't so good and strong letters of recommendation.

Do not write an essay about how liberal you are and how you want to change the world. Also don't write about how hard it is to be an atheist in a Protestant evangelical region.

Baby Lee
08-17-2008, 09:16 AM
In addition to the regular prep program (don't remember which one), my wife practiced with the logic puzzles in the games magazines.

Ended up top 1% on the exam.

That's the key, logic puzzles. The LSAT is eminently learnable. More than finding the right answer, you need to logic skills to quickly critique the wrong answers. Consider every answer with the question in mind 'why is this the wrong answer.' The one you can't find a logical flaw in is the right answer.

There used to be a magazine called GAMES that was filled with logic puzzles, crosswords, and brain teasers of all sorts. I had a subscription all throughout my childhood, and found myself calling on those skills years later taking the LSAT. If you get tired of practice questions, seek out questions of those types.

http://www.gamesmagazine-online.com/

I too, am a 99th percentiler, it's been a while, and I think the scoring scale has changed since then, but I think my score was a 171. But then, I was one of 3 99th percentilers to take a course at Truman State [taught by a professor Vorkink, now retired]. There were 3 or 4 with perfect scores in the 2-3 years prior to me taking it who took the same course.

eazyb81
08-17-2008, 10:16 AM
And that's what worries me. I'm not sure about any of it.


Out of curiosity and for anybody, what exactly does an MBA do other than say "hey I went to school longer"?

I'm in a full-time MBA program right now, and I would say that the alumni network and career services department are far more important than the degree you obtain.

An MBA doesn't make you a lawyer like a JD does or a doctor like an MD does; rather, it exposes you to a network of business people and gives you credibility that you didn't have before. Thus, if you go to a lesser known school, it's not going to do much for you.

irishjayhawk
08-17-2008, 10:59 AM
I'm rather astonished by the amount of really good advice. Thanks!


I guess my wife didn't do any exam prep program, she just did her own thing. She did a prep program for the Bar exam.

Anyway, she just said it was those logic puzzles in the game magazines that you find at the grocery store.

I found some examples online here:

http://www.crpuzzles.com/logic/index.html

Cool, thanks for the link.

Just forget law school and go to Atlanta and go to work for an ad agency. You can be dumb as hell and make 70K.

It's funny because advertising is another area I think I'd excel in. Yet, I have done nothing in that realm nor taken a course. (Though, I don't see how a course in advertising can help that much. I feel like I've learned it through many sources already. :p)

Make sure the prep books you get contain real questions that were on previous LSATs. Kaplan seems to be everyone's favorite.

If you have $1500 to spend, take a course.

Are you taking it in October? Will you be a senior by then?

I'm a senior now. I'm late, I know. I graduate in Spring of 09.

A good LSAT score can really help a poor GPA.

This is what I'm hoping but also what I'm fearing. I am the absolute worst standardized test taker. Logic comes pretty easy to me for the most part but I struggle with the questions. Most of this is due to overanalyzing or reading too far into each question. Ugh, I hate standardized tests.

Here's the class profile for KU: http://www.law.ku.edu/admissions/profile.shtml

If you're GPA is less than 3.45, than you'd want to get an LSAT over 157.

If it's less than 3.00, you need to do great -at least 168 great and with a fantastic essay including why your GPA wasn't so good and strong letters of recommendation.

I'm hoping that these two semesters will really float my GPA back up to respectable. It has my minor and major classes and traditionally I do really well in those.


Do not write an essay about how liberal you are and how you want to change the world. Also don't write about how hard it is to be an atheist in a Protestant evangelical region.

I know, I know. And it's not hard. ;)


That's the key, logic puzzles. The LSAT is eminently learnable. More than finding the right answer, you need to logic skills to quickly critique the wrong answers. Consider every answer with the question in mind 'why is this the wrong answer.' The one you can't find a logical flaw in is the right answer.

There used to be a magazine called GAMES that was filled with logic puzzles, crosswords, and brain teasers of all sorts. I had a subscription all throughout my childhood, and found myself calling on those skills years later taking the LSAT. If you get tired of practice questions, seek out questions of those types.

http://www.gamesmagazine-online.com/

I too, am a 99th percentiler, it's been a while, and I think the scoring scale has changed since then, but I think my score was a 171. But then, I was one of 3 99th percentilers to take a course at Truman State [taught by a professor Vorkink, now retired]. There were 3 or 4 with perfect scores in the 2-3 years prior to me taking it who took the same course.

You didn't get bogged down in overanalyzing the question or reading too far into it. That seems to be my problem. Like, if someone tells me their thinking for any situation, I can usually pick out the logical flaws and stupid thinking they are employing. But on paper and in question form, I struggle because I feel all of them are flawed in some degree.

It does seem to be a good recommendation for logic puzzles. Interestingly enough, I used to be all over those earlier in my schooling career.

I'm in a full-time MBA program right now, and I would say that the alumni network and career services department are far more important than the degree you obtain.

An MBA doesn't make you a lawyer like a JD does or a doctor like an MD does; rather, it exposes you to a network of business people and gives you credibility that you didn't have before. Thus, if you go to a lesser known school, it's not going to do much for you.

Yeah, I get the it's who you know not what you know thing. That's why I'm pretty sure that I should heed Dane's advice and get out of the midwest into bigger waters.

redbrian
08-17-2008, 11:28 AM
hire someone to take it for you...its your only hope....

Cards Fan 4 Chiefs
08-17-2008, 11:46 AM
irish jay hawk

I hope you bomb the LSAT, shithead

ClevelandBronco
08-17-2008, 12:08 PM
Any advice? (Yes, I know "be smart." ;) )

Good prep sites, books or the like?

I have no advice to offer, except that I'll say a prayer that you'll kick that test's ass.

After that it's all up to you.