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View Full Version : Chiefs Croyle better have a good game in Miami


Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 08:23 PM
...because I see nothing :shrug:

Count Alex's Losses
08-16-2008, 08:24 PM
Compared to last year's preseason he looks like a ****ing Pro Bowler.

Get a clue. It's preseason.

MIAdragon
08-16-2008, 08:28 PM
Is anyone else going to that game?

King_Chief_Fan
08-16-2008, 08:29 PM
Croyle looks like the sux.....and Sams is Drummond Part Deux

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 08:29 PM
He had one good series against the Bears & since, squat

the Talking Can
08-16-2008, 08:29 PM
so predictable

milkman
08-16-2008, 08:30 PM
We're doomed!

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 08:31 PM
so predictable

We had a '10-6' thread after last week's game, so I guess we're back to 3-13? :shrug:

Count Alex's Losses
08-16-2008, 08:31 PM
He had one good series against the Bears & since, squat

He moved the chains on our opening drive.

JuicesFlowing
08-16-2008, 08:31 PM
I actually agree with Claythan. I'm not hitting the panic button yet.

King_Chief_Fan
08-16-2008, 08:31 PM
Compared to last year's preseason he looks like a ****ing Pro Bowler.

Get a clue. It's preseason.

All that means is he was worse than this year.......still horrible.

JuicesFlowing
08-16-2008, 08:32 PM
We had a '10-6' thread after last week's game, so I guess we're back to 3-13? :shrug:

Exactly. I knew the reaction would be like this.

Direckshun
08-16-2008, 08:32 PM
I think Croyle's looked alright. This gameplan has given him virtually no opportunities to look downfield.

He's overthrown on a couple passes, but both times it was to Darling. Claythan will hate me for saying so, but I think it might have to do more with his complete lack of connection with Darling than it does any particular lack of talent he may have.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 08:33 PM
How many series has he had? How many has he made a difference? The running game saved his bacon tonight. I am not impressed

kstater
08-16-2008, 08:33 PM
Looking good/bad for one game shouldn't matter with this team this year. Saying that a particular player needs to look good in the next game is the wrong mindset to have. Need to see an overall progression throughout the entire season to tell where a player is going.

Count Alex's Losses
08-16-2008, 08:34 PM
DARLING IS AWESOME CROYLE SUX

the Talking Can
08-16-2008, 08:34 PM
We had a '10-6' thread after last week's game, so I guess we're back to 3-13? :shrug:

yup


we haven't even played one game yet and already the children are crying....

TrebMaxx
08-16-2008, 08:34 PM
I don't see much with Darling either. I would like to see Franklin get a shot at the number 2.

King_Chief_Fan
08-16-2008, 08:35 PM
I think Croyle's looked alright. This gameplan has given him virtually no opportunities to look downfield.

He's overthrown on a couple passes, but both times it was to Darling. Claythan will hate me for saying so, but I think it might have to do more with his complete lack of connection with Darling than it does any particular lack of talent he may have.
With the weapons he has and the time he has had to throw?
He goes chicken shit and dumps underneath. He is not the QB for this team. He has been taught by Curl.

Coach
08-16-2008, 08:35 PM
How many series has he had? How many has he made a difference? The running game saved his bacon tonight. I am not impressed

You think he was that bad? What does Tyler Thigpen tell you? Come on, Croyle wasn't great, I'll admit that much, but not to a point where he's horrible. He made some good decisions, especially the one where the bootleg was and nobody was open, where he threw the ball out in the endzone instead of trying to force it to the receiver.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 08:36 PM
He needs a good game next week, for him & the Chiefs

Nightfyre
08-16-2008, 08:38 PM
He needs a good game next week, for him & the Chiefs

Trolling the board, I see? Good times.

the Talking Can
08-16-2008, 08:38 PM
He needs a good game next week, for him & the Chiefs

or what?


you'll pee in your panties?

tk13
08-16-2008, 08:40 PM
If Croyle doesn't go 14-15 next week, at least 250 yards and 3 TD's, I say it's time we scrap this team and start to rebuild.

Deberg_1990
08-16-2008, 08:40 PM
I wont be satisifed with Croyle until he throws for 350 yards,4 TD's with a a QB rating of 100.37

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 08:40 PM
or what?


you'll pee in your panties?

ROFL Damon. I don't want to see Damon

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 08:42 PM
I wont be satisifed with Croyle until he throws for 350 yards,4 TD's with a a QB rating of 149.3

FYP

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 08:42 PM
If Croyle doesn't go 14-15 next week, at least 250 yards and 3 TD's, I say it's time we scrap this team and start to rebuild.

I am just being honest

kstater
08-16-2008, 08:45 PM
I think the Chiefs need to go at least 8-8 this year to prove that they have a shot at the SB next year.

Deberg_1990
08-16-2008, 08:46 PM
I am just being honest

You realize hes going to be up and down all season?? Just relax and prepare your mind for it.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 08:47 PM
Once the D figures the O out, Croyle is clueless as what to do. Tell me Az. has a really nice secondary, something

Moobs
08-16-2008, 08:47 PM
Cuter: 9/9, 120 yards, 1 TD

Up 14-0 on Cowboys

Just sayin'....

Midnight_Vulture
08-16-2008, 08:48 PM
Compared to last year's preseason he looks like a ****ing Pro Bowler.

Get a clue. It's preseason.

Hey virgin

We are screwed at QB. Why cant some of you understand that?

Count Alex's Losses
08-16-2008, 08:51 PM
Stick to motorcycles and sluts, dumbshit.

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 08:57 PM
ROFL

Tribal Warfare
08-16-2008, 08:59 PM
Once the D figures the O out, Croyle is clueless as what to do. Tell me Az. has a really nice secondary, something

You do realize the whole offensive unit is learning a new scheme, which means there will be some plays where WRs will run wrong routes then the QB will have to file the ball. Of course on TV it looks like its totally the QB's fault

kstater
08-16-2008, 09:01 PM
You do realize the whole offensive unit is learning a new scheme, which means there will be some plays where WRs will run wrong routes then the QB will have to file the ball. Of course on TV it looks like its totally the QB's fault

No way man. As a QB that has 8 games started under his belt, Croyle should be able to pick this young team on his back and lead them to the promise land.

dj56dt58
08-16-2008, 09:04 PM
we're gonna go undefeated on the road and lose all our home games..

another 8-8 mediocre season

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 09:04 PM
You do realize the whole offensive unit is learning a new scheme, which means there will be some plays where WRs will run wrong routes then the QB will have to file the ball. Of course on TV it looks like its totally the QB's fault

So Az.'s D is polished

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 09:07 PM
They made Damon the third QB to win the preseason

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 09:18 PM
I don't see much with Darling either. I would like to see Franklin get a shot at the number 2.

Darling is fine. Croyle overshot him a couple times when he was wide open. One would've been a 60 yard touchdown.

Croyle will be fine, it's early, it's preseason. I'm not concerned.

Tribal Warfare
08-16-2008, 09:22 PM
So Az.'s D is polished

If I remember correctly, Arizona had a pretty good coverage defense last year.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 09:26 PM
If I remember correctly, Arizona had a pretty good coverage defense last year.

Thanks for giving a answer & not just posting, troll <- :rolleyes:

TEX
08-16-2008, 09:30 PM
Compared to last year's preseason he looks like a ****ing Pro Bowler.

Get a clue. It's preseason.

Ah yes - the official "It's preseason" quote. You're correct in that Croyle does look better than last year, but that's not saying much. The guy simply is not that good and will not be a starter in this league for long. Perhaps it's you who should get said clue...

ChiefsFanatic
08-16-2008, 09:36 PM
...because I see nothing :shrug:

If Dave Grohl suited up in place of Croyle, would we even be able to tell the difference?

I can't stand Croyle. I have watched football for a long time, and when I watch Croyle play QB, there is nothing I see that makes me think he is a Pro QB, now or in the future.

But, these experts on this board really know their stuff, and they post on the internet, so they must be right.

TEX
08-16-2008, 09:40 PM
If Dave Grohl suited up in place of Croyle, would we even be able to tell the difference?

I can't stand Croyle. I have watched football for a long time, and when I watch Croyle play QB, there is nothing I see that makes me think he is a Pro QB, now or in the future.

But, these experts on this board really know their stuff, and they post on the internet, so they must be right.

Yep. They all suffer from the "Emperor has no clothes" syndrome...:shake:
IMO, Brodie Croyle is not good enough to start in the NFL. It's pretty easy to see.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 09:44 PM
I agree with TEX and ChiefsFanatic, but I'm trying to be positive about Croyle and hoping I'm wrong about him that he will be our starting QB for years to come. But I'm not placing any bets.

ChiefsFanatic
08-16-2008, 09:45 PM
Yep. They all suffer from the "Emperor has no clothes" syndrome...:shake:
IMO, Brodie Croyle is not good enough to start in the NFL. It's pretty easy to see.


These effing homer announcers just said that Thigpen had a tendency to stare down receivers. That must have come from a list of Carl approved lines intended to make Croyle look better.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 09:45 PM
Be careful now, no room for any doubting. You will be labeled a troll or clueless

JuicesFlowing
08-16-2008, 09:46 PM
Why didn't Huard play tonight?

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 09:50 PM
If Dave Grohl suited up in place of Croyle, would we even be able to tell the difference?

I can't stand Croyle. I have watched football for a long time, and when I watch Croyle play QB, there is nothing I see that makes me think he is a Pro QB, now or in the future.

But, these experts on this board really know their stuff, and they post on the internet, so they must be right.

I see flashes that make me believe he could be a good quarterback in this league, but it's hard to tell because of how bad the rest of the offense was last year.

Can you really expect much from a rookie quarterback in a Solari/Herm offense that has no running game and an awful offensive line? Even when he did succeed, like leading the offense down for the TD against Indy, the playcalling shut it down so he couldn't do it again.

People have posted stats several times, and his rookie stats were right there with some successful QB's rookie seasons, despite the other issues on offense.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the kid, because I'm not sold one way or the other, but it's his second year, and his first with Gailey. Despite what people see, and you could be right, it's just way too early to tell.

Nightfyre
08-16-2008, 09:52 PM
And I suppose know-it-all chiefsfanatic, tex and Wile E all know better than say, people who make a ****ing living coaching and making these decisions. :shake:

Deberg_1990
08-16-2008, 09:54 PM
I see flashes that make me believe he could be a good quarterback in this league, but it's hard to tell because of how bad the rest of the offense was last year.

Can you really expect much from a rookie quarterback in a Solari/Herm offense that has no running game and an awful offensive line? Even when he did succeed, like leading the offense down for the TD against Indy, the playcalling shut it down so he couldn't do it again.

People have posted stats several times, and his rookie stats were right there with some successful QB's rookie seasons, despite the other issues on offense.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the kid, because I'm not sold one way or the other, but it's his second year, and his first with Gailey. Despite what people see, and you could be right, it's just way too early to tell.


I see flashes that he might be a good QB. But a superstar?? I dont see it.

He deserves the whole season ( i doubt he makes it through). We are kind of stuck with him this year anyways. But i have a strong suspicion, we will be looking for a franchise QB next April.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 09:54 PM
And I suppose know-it-all chiefsfanatic, tex and Wile E all know better than say, people who make a ****ing living coaching and making these decisions. :shake:

Give us reason not to & not just name calling and headshaking

beach tribe
08-16-2008, 09:58 PM
I'll be at the game. Gonna take some pics. I'll post them here

beach tribe
08-16-2008, 09:59 PM
I think Croyle looks good, and will have a decent season

ChiefsFanatic
08-16-2008, 10:00 PM
And I suppose know-it-all chiefsfanatic, tex and Wile E all know better than say, people who make a ****ing living coaching and making these decisions. :shake:

Not to brag, but I have won as many SuperBowls as a Head Coach as Marty and Herm combined.

And what is your point about people making a living coaching and making personnel decisions? You mean the great thinkers that did things like draft Todd Blackledge, Trezelle Jenkins and Ryan Sims? Yes, player evaluation is much better left to the experts.

Nightfyre
08-16-2008, 10:00 PM
Give us reason not to & not just name calling and headshaking

Because the people who are paid professionals SAY SO.

beach tribe
08-16-2008, 10:01 PM
Why didn't Huard play tonight?

Because Huard does not need to develop. He's already maxed out his back-up potential

Nightfyre
08-16-2008, 10:01 PM
Not to brag, but I have won as many SuperBowls as a Head Coach as Marty and herm combined.

And what is your point about people making a living coaching and making personnel? You mean the great thinkers that did things like draft Todd Blackledge, Trezelle Jenkins and Ryan Sims? Yes, player evaluation is much better left to the experts.

Do you have a control experiment to compare to? Then you have not a leg to stand on.

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 10:02 PM
I see flashes that he might be a good QB. But a superstar?? I dont see it.

He deserves the whole season ( i doubt he makes it through). We are kind of stuck with him this year anyways. But i have a strong suspicion, we will be looking for a franchise QB next April.

We don't need a superstar. :shrug:

In Herm's perfect world, we need a quarterback that compliments the running game and doesn't make turnovers.

Look at Eli Manning and his career stats and tell me 1) he looked like a QB that could make it after his rookie season, and 2) how he won a SB last year.

beach tribe
08-16-2008, 10:03 PM
Hey virgin

We are screwed at QB. Why cant some of you understand that?

It's saturday night, and the big lady slayer is at home on the internet.

Is you're bike broke down or something?

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 10:03 PM
Because the people who are paid professionals SAY SO.

That's it. I am trolling because I doubt Croyle's ability, and Herm is just givng him a chance? Heaven forbid

Nightfyre
08-16-2008, 10:07 PM
That's it. I am trolling because I doubt Croyle's ability, and Herm is just givng him a chance? Heaven forbid

You are trolling because every thing you said on the front page screams "trolling for responses to my pathetic thread"

Observe:

...because I see nothing
He had one good series against the Bears & since, squat
How many series has he had? How many has he made a difference? The running game saved his bacon tonight. I am not impressed
He needs a good game next week, for him & the Chiefs


At what point were you going to address the conversation actually occuring in the thread? All you had were a bunch of single line insubstantial statements meant to bump your shitty thread.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:07 PM
I see flashes that he might be a good QB. But a superstar?? I dont see it.

He deserves the whole season ( i doubt he makes it through). We are kind of stuck with him this year anyways. But i have a strong suspicion, we will be looking for a franchise QB next April.

I think we'll be looking for a new starting QB next April as well, or maybe even a vet through free agency. I hope it works out for the guy, but I doubt he becomes what we hope.

MadMax
08-16-2008, 10:08 PM
I think Croyle looks good, and will have a decent season


NOOOOOOOOO! Don't bring that positive chit up into dis humpty bumpty. Let us "develop" Huard for another season :)

milkman
08-16-2008, 10:09 PM
If Dave Grohl suited up in place of Croyle, would we even be able to tell the difference?

I can't stand Croyle. I have watched football for a long time, and when I watch Croyle play QB, there is nothing I see that makes me think he is a Pro QB, now or in the future.

But, these experts on this board really know their stuff, and they post on the internet, so they must be right.

What I find funny is that you lnow exactly as much as the experts on the board, which is to say, not a damn thing.

There isn't a single poster here who knows if Croyle will be successful, or that he'll never amount to anything.

I've watched football for a long time, and when I watch Croyle I see some things that I like.
I see a guy who has the tools to succeed.

But the fact is, neither you, nor I, have a ****ing clue.

JuicesFlowing
08-16-2008, 10:09 PM
Not to brag, but I have won as many SuperBowls as a Head Coach as Marty and Herm combined.

And what is your point about people making a living coaching and making personnel decisions? You mean the great thinkers that did things like draft Todd Blackledge, Trezelle Jenkins and Ryan Sims? Yes, player evaluation is much better left to the experts.

I'm amazed at how many people think winning a Super bowl is easy and expected. There are 32 teams in the league and a lot of teams aren't as successful as our Chiefs ... Go ride the Dallas bandwagon.

KcMizzou
08-16-2008, 10:10 PM
I've watched football for a long time, and when I watch Croyle I see some things that I like.
I see a guy who has the tools to succeed.

But the fact is, neither you, nor I, have a ****ing clue.Exactly.

Nightfyre
08-16-2008, 10:11 PM
What I find funny is that you lnow exactly as much as the experts on the board, which is to say, not a damn thing.

There isn't a single poster here who knows if Croyle will be successful, or that he'll never amount to anything.

I've watched football for a long time, and when I watch Croyle I see some things that I like.
I see a guy who has the tools to succeed.

But the fact is, neither you, nor I, have a ****ing clue.

Exactly my point. The people who have the BEST clue are those who work with him every day. All we can do is have faith and support him. If we rush QBs in and out constantly, we'll never find one because they take 2-3 years to develop.

MadMax
08-16-2008, 10:11 PM
It's saturday night, and the big lady slayer is at home on the internet.

Is you're bike broke down or something?



It's in the shop getting that brand spanking new he-man sticker applied..;)

keg in kc
08-16-2008, 10:12 PM
I doubt he becomes what we hope.I'm guessing what we hope (and by 'we' i mean the team) is that he becomes Elvis Grbac or Steve DeBerg. They're not looking for Brett Favre (nor do they want a player like that). They don't want a superstar, they want a game manager that won't necessarily win a game, but won't lose one either. And that's what he's been so far this preseason, 55-60% passing, no picks, and shown that the offense can move the chains at times.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-16-2008, 10:14 PM
You are trolling because every thing you said on the front page screams "trolling for responses to my pathetic thread"

Observe:

...because I see nothing
He had one good series against the Bears & since, squat
How many series has he had? How many has he made a difference? The running game saved his bacon tonight. I am not impressed
He needs a good game next week, for him & the Chiefs


At what point were you going to address the conversation actually occuring in the thread? All you had were a bunch of single line insubstantial statements meant to bump your shitty thread.

Then leave the thread, no one is holding a gun to your head. Kindly piss off

KcMizzou
08-16-2008, 10:17 PM
I'm amazed at how many people think winning a Super bowl is easy and expected. There are 32 teams in the league and a lot of teams aren't as successful as our Chiefs ... Go ride the Dallas bandwagon.Amen. One team is a success, the other 31 are failures.

Now obviously, I'm not happy with 4-12 either. But I think this team is getting better. And really, that's all I ask.

You can go on and post all the bile and venom you want about it, but it's not gonna make your favorite team any better.

The Chiefs are rebuilding. And for once, they're doing it the right way. Watch the young players improve... and have a little patience for ****'s sake.

EDIT: FIVE YEAR PLAN BLAHBLAHBLAH STFU

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:18 PM
I'm guessing what we hope (and by 'we' i mean the team) is that he becomes Elvis Grbac or Steve DeBerg. They're not looking for Brett Favre (nor do they want a player like that). They don't want a superstar, they want a game manager that won't necessarily win a game, but won't lose one either. And that's what he's been so far this preseason, 55-60% passing, no picks, and shown that the offense can move the chains at times.

I'd take my chances at competing to win Super Bowls with guys like Favre, or Manning, or Brady. I'd take my chances at winning ONLY playoff games, and that's it, with guys like Grbac, DeBerg, etc.

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. Eli Manning is not a game manager either, I don't care what people say.

rad
08-16-2008, 10:19 PM
Croyle needs to get a motorcycle. Then it will all come together.

Smed1065
08-16-2008, 10:20 PM
We don't need a superstar. :shrug:

In Herm's perfect world, we need a quarterback that compliments the running game and doesn't make turnovers.

Look at Eli Manning and his career stats and tell me 1) he looked like a QB that could make it after his rookie season, and 2) how he won a SB last year.

http://scosoft.com/h/s/1a98aa81.gif

milkman
08-16-2008, 10:20 PM
I'd take my chances at competing to win Super Bowls with guys like Favre, or Manning, or Brady. I'd take my chances at winning ONLY playoff games, and that's it, with guys like Grbac, DeBerg, etc.

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. Eli Manning is not a game manager either, I don't care what people say.

Funny thing is, Manning had some really bad games in the playoffs on the way to his SB win, and Favre had two big plays and did little else in his SB win.

KcMizzou
08-16-2008, 10:21 PM
I'd take my chances at competing to win Super Bowls with guys like Favre, or Manning, or Brady. I'd take my chances at winning ONLY playoff games, and that's it, with guys like Grbac, DeBerg, etc.

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. Eli Manning is not a game manager either, I don't care what people say.Vanilla Thunder only rolls with the Big Dogs, yo.

keg in kc
08-16-2008, 10:23 PM
I'd take my chances at competing to win Super Bowls with guys like Favre, or Manning, or Brady. I'd take my chances at winning ONLY playoff games, and that's it, with guys like Grbac, DeBerg, etc.

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. Eli Manning is not a game manager either, I don't care what people say.I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just what I believe the team is looking for in their starting QB right now. And I'm not even saying that's what Croyle is, because he could potentially be more. He's not been great statistically, but he's clearly a different QB than a year ago. This isn't the guy who was throwing head-scratching panic picks. If he and Bowe have really developed a connection this offseason, he could poised for a bigger year than people expect. And he could be swirling around the bowl. It's hard to tell at this point, when you only get 1-2 quarters of play. Next week is the game to watch, when they'll (I'm assuming) gameplan for Miami, and play the starters into the 3rd quarter. As far as gauging where your starting unit is, the 3rd preseason game is really the only one where you can even try to do it...

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:24 PM
Funny thing is, Manning had some really bad games in the playoffs on the way to his SB win, and Favre had two big plays and did little else in his SB win.

Give me the franchise QB over the DeBerg's and Grbac's of the NFL.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:25 PM
Vanilla Thunder only rolls with the Big Dogs, yo.

We all shoot high, obviously the Chiefs don't. lol

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:27 PM
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just what I believe the team is looking for in their starting QB right now. And I'm not even saying that's what Croyle is, because he could potentially be more. He's not been great statistically, but he's clearly a different QB than a year ago. This isn't the guy who was throwing head-scratching panic picks. If he and Bowe have really developed a connection this offseason, he could poised for a bigger year than people expect. And he could be swirling around the bowl. It's hard to tell at this point, when you only get 1-2 quarters of play. Next week is the game to watch, when they'll (I'm assuming) gameplan for Miami, and play the starters into the 3rd quarter. As far as gauging where your starting unit is, the 3rd preseason game is really the only one where you can even try to do it...

Ah I see. Yeah this next game should be interesting. Hopefully Dorsey is healthiER haha, and Charles plays. Man I wish Albert was getting reps.

KcMizzou
08-16-2008, 10:30 PM
We all shoot high, obviously the Chiefs don't. lolThe thing is, you just cant go out and get one of those guys. WTF do you want them to do?

The last one was Peyton Manning, I guess. I'd like to see the Chiefs get a guy like that too.

Fact is, it's not that easy.

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 10:33 PM
We will NEVER develop a top-tiered QB until the fans and organization learn to be patient and give a guy some time to develop.


Maybe Croyle makes it, maybe he doesn't. But if he doesn't here, I'd like to make sure he doesn't have what it takes rather than see him sign for someone like Denver and light us up for the 10 years.

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 10:34 PM
I'd take my chances at competing to win Super Bowls with guys like Favre, or Manning, or Brady. I'd take my chances at winning ONLY playoff games, and that's it, with guys like Grbac, DeBerg, etc.

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. Eli Manning is not a game manager either, I don't care what people say.

It seems 50/50 these days... the Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have rings, and Rex Grossman, Trent Dilfer, and Eli Manning have rings.... and guys in between like Roethlisberger, Hasselback, and Delhomme have at least made it there.

I agree with keg, we don't need what some people here are looking for. If Herm has his way, we won't even need someone as good as Eli Manning, and he's not all that good.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:35 PM
The thing is, you just cant go out and get one of those guys. WTF do you want them to do?

The last one was Peyton Manning, I guess. I'd like to see the Chiefs get a guy like that too.

Fact is, it's not that easy.

I know it's not that easy. The Chiefs just don't have a plan. Well, they do now, but I don't know many people that think it'll work. We'll see.

milkman
08-16-2008, 10:35 PM
The thing is, you just cant go out and get one of those guys. WTF do you want them to do?

The last one was Peyton Manning, I guess. I'd like to see the Chiefs get a guy like that too.

Fact is, it's not that easy.

Exactly.

Even the guys ppaid to make these decisions get it wrong at least as often as they get it right.
Probably more.

As to Favre, I'd bet that he's cost his team as many winning opportunities with boneheaded passes as he won them games late with great plays.

KcMizzou
08-16-2008, 10:36 PM
We will NEVER develop a top-tiered QB until the fans and organization learn to be patient and give a guy some time to develop.

Exactly.

I say, stick with Brodie, and build the team around him... if he flames out... and it's clear that he's the problem... we should be drafting high enough to get the next QB that'll get Vanilla Thunder's panties wet.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:39 PM
It seems 50/50 these days... the Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have rings, and Rex Grossman, Trent Dilfer, and Eli Manning have rings.... and guys in between like Roethlisberger, Hasselback, and Delhomme have at least made it there.

I agree with keg, we don't need what some people here are looking for. If Herm has his way, we won't even need someone as good as Eli Manning, and he's not all that good.

Grossman doesn't have a ring.

And the guys that are the shit like Brady, Roethlisberger and the Mannings, have rings. Those guys beat the game managers that play against them in the big game more often than not. The plan is to make it to the Super Bowl and win it. To do that you need the guys that are the shit. IMO.

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 10:41 PM
Give me the franchise QB over the DeBerg's and Grbac's of the NFL.



How do we get one? Carl wouldn't pay for a young, developed QB we can build the team around if one did become available. Those we can afford are like Montana with just a few years left in the tank.

Lets say though we lost all 16 games, and drafted the best qb to come out of college in 20 years with our first pick. First, Carl probably wouldn't get him signed in time for camp, maybe not even the start of the season. Then, even if he has what it takes to be a stud, he's going to struggle. Before he turns the corner and starts becoming a stud, we'll be calling for whatever vet journeyman backup QB who's on the bench holding a clipboard to get the starts while all we fans cry about yet another first round draft bust.

milkman
08-16-2008, 10:41 PM
Grossman doesn't have a ring.

And the guys that are the shit like Brady, Roethlisberger and the Mannings, have rings. Those guys beat the game managers that play against them in the big game more often than not. The plan is to make it to the Super Bowl and win it. To do that you need the guys that are the shit. IMO.

So far, I don't see Rothlisberger as more than a game manager who occasionally has big games.

And he was outplayed by Hasselback in their SB.

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 10:43 PM
The thing is, you just cant go out and get one of those guys. WTF do you want them to do?

The last one was Peyton Manning, I guess. I'd like to see the Chiefs get a guy like that too.

Fact is, it's not that easy.

Looks pretty obvious to me. Look at the top rated QBs last season... you have #1 picks, 5th rounders, and a guy from Eastern Illinois. Look at the bottom, and you see the same damn thing.

The fact is, there aren't 32 starting quarterbacks in this league.

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 10:44 PM
As to Favre, I'd bet that he's cost his team as many winning opportunities with boneheaded passes as he won them games late with great plays.



IMO, the guy's been playing for close to 2 decades and that statement is probably about as true for the upcoming season as it was when he was young.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:44 PM
So far, I don't see Rothlisberger as more than a game manager who occasionally has big games.

And he was outplayed by Hasselback in their SB.

And Ben gets the ring, sad panda. lol

milkman
08-16-2008, 10:47 PM
And Ben gets the ring, sad panda. lol

Yes, he got the ring.

The point is, he's not a franchise QB like the Mannings and Bradys.

He's a glorified game manager.

Which leads me to wonder, do you have any real idea what the hell you want?

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 10:47 PM
Grossman doesn't have a ring.

And the guys that are the shit like Brady, Roethlisberger and the Mannings, have rings. Those guys beat the game managers that play against them in the big game more often than not. The plan is to make it to the Super Bowl and win it. To do that you need the guys that are the shit. IMO.

Yeah, I edited wrong...

Eli Manning is the shit?

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:48 PM
Eli Manning is the shit?

Nah he's getting there, I'd take him in a heartbeat over Croyle.

Smed1065
08-16-2008, 10:50 PM
Since there are 32 teams and 4 great QB's always mentioned, I would guess they get it right 1/8th of the time?

It would take drafting 8 QB's in the first round to get a "great" one. The Chiefs have drafted how many QB's early?

milkman
08-16-2008, 10:51 PM
Nah he's getting there, I'd take him in a heartbeat over Croyle.

So, going into his 5th season, he's getting there.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:54 PM
So, going into his 5th season, he's getting there.

Yes.

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 10:54 PM
Nah he's getting there, I'd take him in a heartbeat over Croyle.



Now you would. Would you have taken him when he was 1-6 with 48% completions and 6 tds/9 ints?

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 10:55 PM
Nah he's getting there, I'd take him in a heartbeat over Croyle.

He's thrown more interceptions each year while not increasing TDs. He threw for under 200 yards in their first two playoff games and did much more to 'not screw it up' than win those 4 games.

Two rookie seasons as a starter...

9 games, 48% completion percentage, 1043 yards, 6 TDs, 9 INTs, 55.4 rating
9 games, 56% completion percentage, 1227 yards, 6 TDs, 6 INTs, 69.9 rating

One is Croyle and one is Eli.

KcMizzou
08-16-2008, 10:56 PM
Now you would. Would you have taken him when he was 1-6 with 48% completions and 6 tds/9 ints?He won dah supur bowl!!!!!

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 10:56 PM
Now you would. Would you have taken him when he was 1-6 with 48% completions and 6 tds/9 ints?

So much for the suspense. :harumph:

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 10:57 PM
Now you would. Would you have taken him when he was 1-6 with 48% completions and 6 tds/9 ints?

Yes.

milkman
08-16-2008, 10:59 PM
Yes.

Yet, you won't give Croyle that long.

If he plays at the same level Eli did in his third year, you'll be calling for his head.

It just show tha patience is not a virtue among Chiefs fans in QB development.

milkman
08-16-2008, 11:00 PM
Yes.

Lying sack.

KcMizzou
08-16-2008, 11:01 PM
Yet, you won't give Croyle that long.

If he plays at the same level Eli did in his third year, you'll be calling for his head.

It just show tha patience is not a virtue among Chiefs fans in QB development.True.

And honestly, we're pretty new at it.

Give the guy a chance.

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 11:03 PM
I have no idea how this posted without me hitting anything other than alphabet and # keys

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 11:03 PM
Yes.


Really, compare the stat lines between Eli and Brodie on their first year starting then....


Brodie -
W/L 0-6 :
Passing 127/224 for 56.7% completions for 1227 yards
TD/INT - 6/6
QB Rating - 69.9


Eli -

W/L - 1/6
Passing - 95/197 for 48.2% completions for 1043 yards
TD/INT 6/9
QB Rating - 55.4



How could anyone want Eli but not be willing to at least give Brodie a chance when Brodie was better in every catagory except for 1 win is beyond me.

milkman
08-16-2008, 11:04 PM
True.

And honestly, we're pretty new at it.

Give the guy a chance.

It's funny, it took people 15 years or more to finally realize Carl at GM was a problem.

Marty had 10 years at HC, and people still think he was the answer.

But Croyle has had all of 6 starts at QB, and people are ready to throw him under the bus.

It's really kind of mind boggling.

tk13
08-16-2008, 11:05 PM
So far, I don't see Rothlisberger as more than a game manager who occasionally has big games.

And he was outplayed by Hasselback in their SB.
Roethlisberger was the definition of a game manager. I don't think he is now... but it took him a couple years to reach that point. His first couple years... that team was 1st in rushing attempts and dead last in passing attempts. They used their rushing attack and offensive line to protect him, and he just didn't have to throw the game away.

To his credit, the playoffs came around that 2nd year... and then when everybody was expecting Steeler ball, Cowher turned him loose a bit, and passed to open up the run to finish them off.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 11:06 PM
I'm trying to give the guy a chance. It's hard lol.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-16-2008, 11:06 PM
Yet, you won't give Croyle that long.

If he plays at the same level Eli did in his third year, you'll be calling for his head.

It just show tha patience is not a virtue among Chiefs fans in QB development.

Shoot i've already seen people calling Tank, Turk, and Pollard busts on here as well. It isn't just QB's.

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 11:07 PM
Yes.

So, maybe you watch the Giants when you aren't watching the Chiefs, maybe you're a retired QB coach, or maybe you're FoS...... but, in the past few years Eli has showed me no more potential than Croyle did last year.

For what, 4 years, people have been asking "when will he stop making stupid decisions?" and "when will he start playing like he was drafted in the first round?".... and he only answered the first question during the playoffs last year.

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 11:10 PM
Really, compare the stat lines between Eli and Brodie on their first year starting then....


Brodie -
W/L 0-6 :
Passing 127/224 for 56.7% completions for 1227 yards
TD/INT - 6/6
QB Rating - 69.9


Eli -

W/L - 1/6
Passing - 95/197 for 48.2% completions for 1043 yards
TD/INT 6/9
QB Rating - 55.4



How could anyone want Eli but not be willing to at least give Brodie a chance when Brodie was better in every catagory except for 1 win is beyond me.




Bumping to make sure VT sees this as thanks to a hickup, it got posted early and then down the list by the time I got it edited.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-16-2008, 11:12 PM
Bumping to make sure VT sees this as thanks to a hickup, it got posted early and then down the list by the time I got it edited.

I have a feeling that it won't make a bit of difference.

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 11:14 PM
Bumping to make sure VT sees this as thanks to a hickup, it got posted early and then down the list by the time I got it edited.

I posted the same stats and they were ignored, so I'm thinking it won't make a difference. ;)

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 11:15 PM
Even if Croyle has "it", like milkman stated, it won't happen here, not under Carl or the fans.

milkman
08-16-2008, 11:15 PM
Roethlisberger was the definition of a game manager. I don't think he is now... but it took him a couple years to reach that point. His first couple years... that team was 1st in rushing attempts and dead last in passing attempts. They used their rushing attack and offensive line to protect him, and he just didn't have to throw the game away.

To his credit, the playoffs came around that 2nd year... and then when everybody was expecting Steeler ball, Cowher turned him loose a bit, and passed to open up the run to finish them off.

I think the term "Franchise QB" gets thrown around too much.

Roethlisberger is a game manager still, a talented one, but a game manager nonetheless.

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 11:18 PM
Another interesting comparison...


Peyton Manning's first year....

W/L 3-13
326 of 575 for 56.7% completions and 3739 yards
26 tds 28 ints
71.2 QB rating



Compared to Brodie's first season starting, he was on about the same pace as Peyton had in his first season minus the 3 Ws



I'm not saying Brodie will turn into the stud that Peyton has. But I do think that it's a little early to give up on him.

milkman
08-16-2008, 11:18 PM
Even if Croyle has "it", like milkman stated, it won't happen here, not under Carl or the fans.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I think he has some tools to work with, but I'm not saying he has "it".

I'm saying it's far too early in his development to know, and anyone that says they know is full of shit.

PastorMikH
08-16-2008, 11:19 PM
I posted the same stats and they were ignored, so I'm thinking it won't make a difference. ;)



So!

:)


(This thread isn't worth reading the back pages to find out what's been posted).

:D

Chiefs Pantalones
08-16-2008, 11:20 PM
Don't put words in my mouth.

I think he has some tools to work with, but I'm not saying he has "it".

I'm saying it'e dar too early in his development to know, and anyone that sats they know is full of shit.

lol no I'm not saying you said he had "it", I'm saying you're right in that it even if he does, it won't happen here cuz the fans and Carl.

I'm sorry for putting internet words into your mouth.

Bearcat
08-16-2008, 11:30 PM
So!

:)


(This thread isn't worth reading the back pages to find out what's been posted).

:D

It was like 5 posts before you, but no harm done. :)

Then again, I have 80 posts per page, so nothing is on the 'back page'. :D


None of it really matters... all of the stats have been compared, and he's right there with most quarterbacks that are worth being compared against. But different people see different things, get good/bad feelings, whatever. A lot of Giants fans hated Eli Manning until he won the Super Bowl, and I'm sure some kept giving him the benefit of the doubt.

If Croyle has Eli-like seasons for the next 3 years, it'll be the same around here... the majority will hate him until the team around him is good enough to win a SB.

dirk digler
08-16-2008, 11:37 PM
Just got home from the game and my impressions were the very few opportunities that Croyle had there seemed to be some mis communication on at least 2-3 throws.

The one long he missed on was because he was about to get drilled and had to let it fly a little early

Mecca
08-16-2008, 11:38 PM
We will NEVER develop a top-tiered QB until the fans and organization learn to be patient and give a guy some time to develop.


Maybe Croyle makes it, maybe he doesn't. But if he doesn't here, I'd like to make sure he doesn't have what it takes rather than see him sign for someone like Denver and light us up for the 10 years.

That's a mixture.....you have to know when it's time to move on aswell. You don't wanna be here 4 years later going "well Brodie Croyle needs more time"

DeezNutz
08-16-2008, 11:39 PM
Just got home from the game and my impressions were the very few opportunities that Croyle had there seemed to be some mis communication on at least 2-3 throws.

The one long he missed on was because he was about to get drilled and had to let it fly a little early

Clearly my evaluative skills are better because I was watching on tv and posting on the Internet.

beach tribe
08-16-2008, 11:40 PM
I'd take my chances at competing to win Super Bowls with guys like Favre, or Manning, or Brady. I'd take my chances at winning ONLY playoff games, and that's it, with guys like Grbac, DeBerg, etc.

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. Eli Manning is not a game manager either, I don't care what people say.

Herm is trying to build this team in the image of the Bucs. They won a SB, with a game manager.

Mecca
08-16-2008, 11:48 PM
Herm is trying to build this team in the image of the Bucs. They won a SB, with a game manager.

When they changed head coaches to a coach that was offensive minded...

Smed1065
08-16-2008, 11:51 PM
It's funny, it took people 15 years or more to finally realize Carl at GM was a problem.

Marty had 10 years at HC, and people still think he was the answer.

But Croyle has had all of 6 starts at QB, and people are ready to throw him under the bus.

It's really kind of mind boggling.

How long was the chin a HC before he "proved" he was a SB winner?

FAX
08-16-2008, 11:52 PM
I missed the game. How did Croyle look?

FAX

beach tribe
08-16-2008, 11:55 PM
When they changed head coaches to a coach that was offensive minded...

Umm. I don't remember the conversation being about coaches. It was about QBs.

Mecca
08-16-2008, 11:57 PM
Umm. I don't remember the conversation being about coaches. It was about QBs.

Ok that's great I was just sayin it took a change in the philosophy for that team to get over the top because Dungy's wasn't working.

ChiefsCountry
08-17-2008, 01:28 AM
I just got home from the game some of these comments are pretty freaking stupid IMO. I have upper deck seats so I have a pretty view of the routes and as former WR I know what they are doing. Cardinals were covering the deep ball, they gave the Chiefs the dump off which Croyle hit tonight. To me it looked like a lot of the problem was the running backs and receivers werent going to the chains. But heck they moved the ball tonight, just couldnt get into the end zone.

FAX
08-17-2008, 01:28 AM
I just got home from the game some of these comments are pretty freaking stupid IMO. I have upper deck seats so I have a pretty view of the routes and as former WR I know what they are doing. Cardinals were covering the deep ball, they gave the Chiefs the dump off which Croyle hit tonight. To me it looked like a lot of the problem was the running backs and receivers werent going to the chains. But heck they moved the ball tonight, just couldnt get into the end zone.

Hmmm.

FAX

Smed1065
08-17-2008, 01:38 AM
Red zone looked like last year to me. That is an area of work.

FAX
08-17-2008, 01:43 AM
Red zone looked like last year to me. That is an area of work.

I didn't see tonight's game, but I agree that we need a couple of "money" plays to use inside the 20, Mr. Smed1065. One has the feeling that the offense loses confidence down there (assuming they have any to start with, of course).

FAX

ChiefsCountry
08-17-2008, 01:44 AM
Red zone looked like last year to me. That is an area of work.

Fade route to the corner was open all tonight but they didnt run it. Thats Bowe's money play.

J Diddy
08-17-2008, 01:46 AM
Ok that's great I was just sayin it took a change in the philosophy for that team to get over the top because Dungy's wasn't working.


but yet dungy won a superbowl

Von Dumbass
08-17-2008, 03:58 AM
If Croyle doesn't go 14-15 next week, at least 250 yards and 3 TD's, I say it's time we scrap this team and start to rebuild.

That sounds like Jay Cutler tonight vs the cowboys

Smed1065
08-17-2008, 04:08 AM
That sounds like Jay Cutler tonight vs the cowboys

In your mind?

Sorry, you do not have one.

16 of 20 is good.

178 is almost 250 if you count a 1/3 discount (30 % discount)

1 TD equals 3 in the thin air.

Guess that is great cause if you get in the top 70% this year, you can say you won it all.

http://scosoft.com/h/e/73169ecb.gif

Von Dumbass
08-17-2008, 04:13 AM
In your mind?

Sorry, you do not have one.

16 of 20 is good.

178 is almost 250 if you count a 1/3 discount (30 % discount)

1 TD equals 3 in the thin air.

Guess that is great cause if you get in the top 70% this year, you can say you won it all.



Do you think Croyle will even throw for 178 yards (in all 4 games combined) this preseason?

Crashride
08-17-2008, 06:31 AM
Croyle is gonna be fine guys, we got Willie Roaf remember?

KCJohnny
08-17-2008, 08:02 AM
I'm guessing what we hope (and by 'we' i mean the team) is that he becomes Elvis Grbac or Steve DeBerg. They're not looking for Brett Favre (nor do they want a player like that). They don't want a superstar, they want a game manager that won't necessarily win a game, but won't lose one either. And that's what he's been so far this preseason, 55-60% passing, no picks, and shown that the offense can move the chains at times.

The diff being that DeBerg (well into a long career when he arrived here) and Grbac were able to carry the team on their backs when the situation demanded it.

When the Chiefs lost their #1 and #2 TBs in 2000, Grbac raised a mediocre passing O that had almost no run support to #5 in the NFL. As a very young player, he once threw for 383 yds for SF in relief of an injured Steve Young.

The fact is we have not seen anything in Croyle that suggests he could load the team on his shoulders and will them to a victory yet. The closest thing was the performance at Indy last year almost pulling the upset. Yet even in that game he did not throw for 200 yds.

This team will have a daunting rushing attack this year. However, as we have seen before, if there is no credible threat for the passing game to go over the top of crowded lines of scrimmage, our run game will be stuffed as teams dare us to beat them with play-action.

The other side of that coin is a legit #2 receiver who can take pressure off Bowe and spread the field. Darling has not been that guy (yet) and of all the young receivers I like Maurice Price the best - hands, speed, routes, blocking, attitude - all above average and he's very, very young. The legitimate threat of a WR who can run the fade, post and flag routes (especially on an audible/check-with-me) will be the difference between another season 14 ppg or an arena-football-league like 24+ ppg.

Once the season is in the tank (by Halloween), there may be a lot of drama in KC about the QB position. For my money, this team could win 7-9 games with Huard under center, which barring injuries to the first 2 QBs on the depth chart is not going to happen.

5-11 with a possible QB acquistion for 2009.

CupidStunt
08-17-2008, 08:26 AM
Do you think Croyle will even throw for 178 yards (in all 4 games combined) this preseason?

Who cares? Do you think your entire DT rotation will cause as much havoc as Glenn Dorsey did in three snaps?

PastorMikH
08-17-2008, 08:29 AM
That's a mixture.....you have to know when it's time to move on aswell. You don't wanna be here 4 years later going "well Brodie Croyle needs more time"



THE GUY HAS 6 STARTS! Also, going into his 3rd year he's already having to learn a second offensive system. He has 1 dependable veteran to throw to who isn't even a reciever, a poor line, and in those 6 starts was handing off to a rookie RB.


With the mentality people are showing about wanting to dump him now, had Petyton Manning, Troy Aikman, John Elway, and so on played here the way they did their first year or two, they would have been busts too.

Tom Bradys and Kurt Warners are very rare, QBs just don't step out on the field and play at a probowl level from the start.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-17-2008, 08:32 AM
THE GUY HAS 6 STARTS! Also, going into his 3rd year he's already having to learn a second offensive system. He has 1 dependable veteran to throw to who isn't even a reciever, a poor line, and in those 6 starts was handing off to a rookie RB.


With the mentality people are showing about wanting to dump him now, had Petyton Manning, Troy Aikman, John Elway, and so on played here the way they did their first year or two, they would have been busts too.

Tom Bradys and Kurt Warners are very rare, QBs just don't step out on the field and play at a probowl level from the start.

Who has said anything about dumping him? I've just seen concern over nothing but a Dilfer with a Pennington injury history

boogblaster
08-17-2008, 08:34 AM
Croyle will get better .. the team will too ... believe ....

Wile_E_Coyote
08-17-2008, 08:35 AM
We just want to be assured he has what it takes. I don't see that as being alarmist

milkman
08-17-2008, 08:46 AM
The diff being that DeBerg (well into a long career when he arrived here) and Grbac were able to carry the team on their backs when the situation demanded it.

When the Chiefs lost their #1 and #2 TBs in 2000, Grbac raised a mediocre passing O that had almost no run support to #5 in the NFL. He once threw for 383 yds for SF in relief of an injured Steve Young.

The fact is we have not seen anything in Croyle that suggests he could load the team on his shoulders and will them to a victory yet. The closest thing was the performance at Indy last year almost pulling the upset. Yet even in that game he did not throw for 200 yds.

This team will have a daunting rushing attack this year. However, as we have seen before, if there is no credible threat for the passing game to go over the top of crowded lines of scrimmage, our run game will be stuffed as teams dare us to beat them with play-action.

The other side of that coin is a legit #2 receiver who can take pressure off Bowe and spread the field. Darling has not been that guy (yet) and of all the young receivers I like Maurice Price the best - hands, speed, routes, blocking, attitude - all above average and he's very, very young. The legitimate threat of a WR who can run the fade, post and flag routes (especially on an audible/check-with-me) will be the difference between another season 14 ppg or an arena-football-league like 24+ ppg.

Once the season is in the tank (by Halloween), there may be a lot of drama in KC about the QB position. For my money, this team could win 7-9 games with Huard under center, which barring injuries to the first 2 QBs on the depth chart is not going to happen.

5-11 with a possible QB acquistion for 2009.

Jeff Kemp.

OnTheWarpath58
08-17-2008, 09:40 AM
Jesus tapdancing Christ.

I can't even bring myself to read the thread - I'm 100% confident it is as retarded as the title leads me to believe.

Someone needs to start the ****Official Brodie Croyle Overreaction/Chicken Little/Bitch and Moan Thread****

Then all this bullshit can rot in one place.

TEX
08-17-2008, 09:56 AM
I actually agree with Claythan. I'm not hitting the panic button yet.

There's really no need to ever hit the "panic button" with Croyle. The Chiefs are a rebuilding team. If he improves with the team, in time they will be good. If he never makes it, it won't be that big of a deal. He's a 3rd rounder. Not much money is tied up. The Chiefs will just continue to build through the draft and improve. If a new QB is needed, the Chiefs will have good personnel in place and a better QB will enable the Chiefs to better make the "jump" to becoming a good team.

King_Chief_Fan
08-17-2008, 11:30 AM
We don't need a superstar. :shrug:

In Herm's perfect world, we need a quarterback that compliments the running game and doesn't make turnovers.

Look at Eli Manning and his career stats and tell me 1) he looked like a QB that could make it after his rookie season, and 2) how he won a SB last year.

ROFLcomparing Croyle to Manning.

Bearcat
08-17-2008, 11:31 AM
The diff being that DeBerg (well into a long career when he arrived here) and Grbac were able to carry the team on their backs when the situation demanded it.

When the Chiefs lost their #1 and #2 TBs in 2000, Grbac raised a mediocre passing O that had almost no run support to #5 in the NFL. As a very young player, he once threw for 383 yds for SF in relief of an injured Steve Young.

The fact is we have not seen anything in Croyle that suggests he could load the team on his shoulders and will them to a victory yet. The closest thing was the performance at Indy last year almost pulling the upset. Yet even in that game he did not throw for 200 yds.

This team will have a daunting rushing attack this year. However, as we have seen before, if there is no credible threat for the passing game to go over the top of crowded lines of scrimmage, our run game will be stuffed as teams dare us to beat them with play-action.

The other side of that coin is a legit #2 receiver who can take pressure off Bowe and spread the field. Darling has not been that guy (yet) and of all the young receivers I like Maurice Price the best - hands, speed, routes, blocking, attitude - all above average and he's very, very young. The legitimate threat of a WR who can run the fade, post and flag routes (especially on an audible/check-with-me) will be the difference between another season 14 ppg or an arena-football-league like 24+ ppg.

Once the season is in the tank (by Halloween), there may be a lot of drama in KC about the QB position. For my money, this team could win 7-9 games with Huard under center, which barring injuries to the first 2 QBs on the depth chart is not going to happen.

5-11 with a possible QB acquistion for 2009.

The hilarious part of this is that I read the Talking Can's post before this one.

Did you just compare the mid-90s 49ers and their QB situation with the 2007 Chiefs "offense"? By 2000, he had been in the leage 7 years, so that's not relevant at the moment.

The 'closes thing' that you mention was Brodie putting the team on his shoulders.... it was Herm/Solari that shut down the offense after that drive to prevent victory. Maybe he didn't have the yards, but how many 2nd year quarterbacks could get 383 yards of passing offense with no offensive line and no rushing game?

I refer you to the great Talking Can...


Whitlock, like most Chiefs fans,is a closet True Fan who only understands competant mediocrity....the risks, pain, and possible failure involved in rebuilding and developing don't make any sense, and in the end aren't tolerable....

he, and they, want to "develop" a QB without actually living through the "development" part...they all want a steep, straight line up the graph....and they want it to happen in 1 quarter of one preseason game and be finished

the reality that a QB will look good, then bad, then good, then terrible, then average, then bad, then great, is waaaay too painful and real....

they would all rather be 7-9 with Huard playing...because at least they can process Huard's benign, pointless, mediocrity...

Croyle is going to have bad games, and throw ints, and do dumb things this year...frequently...and this board will have the same petulant meltdown each time, with the same Steve Bono-loving True Fans leading the way...

we haven't played a single game this year and people have thrown in the towel on developing a QB...think about that...

we'll have plenty of evidence at the end of the year to judge Croyle with....he will show marked improvement, or he won't...it won't be hard to see in aggregate....

until then, though, the pants wetters and Whitlock will have field day...

JASONSAUTO
08-17-2008, 11:33 AM
yup


we haven't even played one game yet and already the children are crying....

thats right, you are

JASONSAUTO
08-17-2008, 11:41 AM
It seems 50/50 these days... the Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have rings, and Rex Grossman, Trent Dilfer, and Eli Manning have rings.... and guys in between like Roethlisberger, Hasselback, and Delhomme have at least made it there.

I agree with keg, we don't need what some people here are looking for. If Herm has his way, we won't even need someone as good as Eli Manning, and he's not all that good.

didnt big ben win one also?

Bearcat
08-17-2008, 11:50 AM
ROFLcomparing Croyle to Manning.

How dare me... they're SO far apart. :rolleyes:

Did you see the Vikings/Giants highlights last year? 4 INTs and several stupid decisions against the worst pass defense in the league. If Croyle has a game like that this year, this place would implode, much less his 4th year in the league.

If it cracks you up so much, again, tell me 1) he looked like a QB that could make it after his rookie season, and 2) how he won a SB last year.

He's thrown more interceptions each year while not increasing TDs. He threw for under 200 yards in their first two playoff games and did much more to 'not screw it up' than win those 4 games.

Two rookie seasons as a starter...

9 games, 48% completion percentage, 1043 yards, 6 TDs, 9 INTs, 55.4 rating
9 games, 56% completion percentage, 1227 yards, 6 TDs, 6 INTs, 69.9 rating

One is Croyle and one is Eli.

Coach
08-17-2008, 11:55 AM
That's a mixture.....you have to know when it's time to move on aswell. You don't wanna be here 4 years later going "well Brodie Croyle needs more time"

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. How many games are you willing to give him? He only played SIX games last year. It's not like he's been on the team for six years!

Goddammit, I'm getting tired of people who wants a washed-up QB becuase of the fact that they are goddamn scared of wanting to go through a QB developmental phase, while at the same time, they are okay with the other positions (Linemen, WR's, CB's, etc)going through the same thing. What the f**k? You can't have it both ways, people.

So why is it not fair for Croyle to at least be given a year to at least try to develop ALONG with the other players such as Albert, Franklin, Dorsey, etc? You tell me that.

It's bullshit.

Bearcat
08-17-2008, 11:55 AM
didnt big ben win one also?

Yes, I edited wrong.... but my point was there are a handful of superstar QBs that have at least made it to the SB, and a handful of less-than-mediocre QBs that have done the same.

The person I was talking to was talking about wanting a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, and my point was that you can't look at the list of SB QBs over the past several years and say you need one of those guys to win a conference championship or SB.

Hell, in Herm's perfect world, we would have a defense like Chicago's back when they went to the SB, so we wouldn't need a top 10 QB... and look at who they had at QB.

Coach
08-17-2008, 11:57 AM
Really, compare the stat lines between Eli and Brodie on their first year starting then....


Brodie -
W/L 0-6 :
Passing 127/224 for 56.7% completions for 1227 yards
TD/INT - 6/6
QB Rating - 69.9


Eli -

W/L - 1/6
Passing - 95/197 for 48.2% completions for 1043 yards
TD/INT 6/9
QB Rating - 55.4



How could anyone want Eli but not be willing to at least give Brodie a chance when Brodie was better in every catagory except for 1 win is beyond me.

"Becuase he haven't won a f**king meaningful game" - Your normal typical so-called "TRUE FAN"

I'll tell you this. Judging a QB by W-L's is overrated. Period.

Bearcat
08-17-2008, 11:59 AM
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. How many games are you willing to give him? He only played SIX games last year. It's not like he's been on the team for six years!

Goddammit, I'm getting tired of people who wants a washed-up QB becuase of the fact that they are goddamn scared of wanting to go through a QB developmental phase, while at the same time, they are okay with the other positions (Linemen, WR's, CB's, etc). What the f**k? You can't have it both ways, people.

So why is it not fair for Croyle to at least be given a year to at least try to develop ALONG with the other players such as Albert, Franklin, Dorsey, etc? You tell me that.

It's bullshit.


Heh... that's a good way to put it.... "We know the O-Line that Croyle relies on isn't that good, and that's okay, it'll get better. We know the receivers he throws to are young, and again, they'll get better. And we know the running game that compliments Croyle's passing game was sh*t last year, in part due to the aforementioned O-Line problems, but we're expecting good things from LJ this year.

...


WTF is wrong with Croyle?!?!?"

LMAO

Chiefnj2
08-17-2008, 12:01 PM
Really, compare the stat lines between Eli and Brodie on their first year starting then....


Brodie -
W/L 0-6 :
Passing 127/224 for 56.7% completions for 1227 yards
TD/INT - 6/6
QB Rating - 69.9


Eli -

W/L - 1/6
Passing - 95/197 for 48.2% completions for 1043 yards
TD/INT 6/9
QB Rating - 55.4



How could anyone want Eli but not be willing to at least give Brodie a chance when Brodie was better in every catagory except for 1 win is beyond me.


Eli didn't have the benefit of holding a clipboard one year while learning the speed of the pro game. Croyle should be ahead of him on the learning curve.

If everyone wants to hold Croyle to the Eli standard then fine, he should play in all 16 games this year and finish with 3,700+ yards, 24 TD's, 17 INTs and a 6.8 yard average.

OnTheWarpath58
08-17-2008, 12:03 PM
"Becuase he haven't won a f**king meaningful game" - Your normal typical so-called "TRUE FAN"

I'll tell you this. Judging a QB by W-L's is overrated. Period.

I'm calling it now.

The W/L thing will end up being one of the great double standards of the season.

People are on Croyle's back now, because he's never won a game.

I guarantee, that when the wins DO start coming, these same people will say that the team is winning IN SPITE of Croyle.

Croyle is in a lose-lose situation with some people - and it's painfully obvious that the majority of this fanbase doesn't have the patience to develop a young QB.

OctoberFart
08-17-2008, 12:05 PM
Compared to last year's preseason he looks like a ****ing Pro Bowler.

Get a clue. It's preseason.

It was your stupid camp reports from last year that said he was looking great and was CLEARLY the better QB of all on the roster. That just proved you have no idea what your looking at when watching football.

Guru
08-17-2008, 12:06 PM
I'm calling it now.

The W/L thing will end up being one of the great double standards of the season.

People are on Croyle's back now, because he's never won a game.

I guarantee, that when the wins DO start coming, these same people will say that the team is winning IN SPITE of Croyle.

Croyle is in a lose-lose situation with some people - and it's painfully obvious that the majority of this fanbase doesn't have the patience to develop a young QB.
Imagine if we had a career QB here like Elway or Favre before Croyle was brought in. I know, bad comparison heh, but still....

OnTheWarpath58
08-17-2008, 12:12 PM
Imagine if we had a career QB here like Elway or Favre before Croyle was brought in. I know, bad comparison heh, but still....

Honestly, there really is no bad comparison, IMO.

It doesn't matter WHO would have been our QB - Elway, Aikman, Favre, etc. - this fanbase would have run them out of town before they had a chance to grow into the position.

Christ, people here STILL bitch about Favre throwing INT's, and he's a first ballot lock HOFer who didn't even ****ing play here.

People would rather look for the negative instead of the positive.

Speaking of positive: Not a single turnover from Croyle this preseason.

But hey, he overthrew a couple of receivers. Burn him at the stake...

kstater
08-17-2008, 12:14 PM
Speaking of positive: Not a single turnover from Croyle this preseason.

But hey, he overthrew a couple of receivers. Burn him at the stake...

Honestly, I'm thrilled to watch a QB that's capable of overthrowing a receiver.

Coach
08-17-2008, 12:15 PM
Honestly, I'm thrilled to watch a QB that's capable of overthrowing a receiver.

Sure as hell looks better than Fetal Position underthrowing.

milkman
08-17-2008, 12:24 PM
Eli didn't have the benefit of holding a clipboard one year while learning the speed of the pro game. Croyle should be ahead of him on the learning curve.

If everyone wants to hold Croyle to the Eli standard then fine, he should play in all 16 games this year and finish with 3,700+ yards, 24 TD's, 17 INTs and a 6.8 yard average.

And a 52.8% completion rate with a 75.9 QB rating.

redbrian
08-17-2008, 12:26 PM
How many series has he had? How many has he made a difference? The running game saved his bacon tonight. I am not impressed

How many real games has he played this year.....squat.........how much do you know about football....squat....

Bearcat
08-17-2008, 12:50 PM
Eli didn't have the benefit of holding a clipboard one year while learning the speed of the pro game. Croyle should be ahead of him on the learning curve.

If everyone wants to hold Croyle to the Eli standard then fine, he should play in all 16 games this year and finish with 3,700+ yards, 24 TD's, 17 INTs and a 6.8 yard average.


And Manning lead an 11-5 team to a wild card loss, 23-0, with 113 yards passing and 3 INTs. I wonder how that would go over here... Tiki Barber ran for 1800 yards that year, too, and Eli was throwing to Plaxico Burress, Jeremy Shockey, and Amani Toomer.

The year before, Eli had the same weapons, Barber ran for 1500 yards, yet his stats are comparable to Croyle, who had fewer weapons and whose leading rusher during his starts had 407 yards. Eli had a better team around him, yet didn't produce any more than Croyle... maybe that's the benefit of holding a clipboard for a year, eh?

Cards Fan 4 Chiefs
08-17-2008, 12:56 PM
Honestly, there really is no bad comparison, IMO.

It doesn't matter WHO would have been our QB - Elway, Aikman, Favre, etc. - this fanbase would have run them out of town before they had a chance to grow into the position.

Christ, people here STILL bitch about Favre throwing INT's, and he's a first ballot lock HOFer who didn't even ****ing play here.

People would rather look for the negative instead of the positive.

Speaking of positive: Not a single turnover from Croyle this preseason.

But hey, he overthrew a couple of receivers. Burn him at the stake...

It's too bad you never took my offer. I would have paid for your Chiefs season tickets this year for a night with your wife.

Guru
08-17-2008, 01:00 PM
Honestly, I'm thrilled to watch a QB that's capable of overthrowing a receiver.
QFT

TEX
08-17-2008, 01:14 PM
It was your stupid camp reports from last year that said he was looking great and was CLEARLY the better QB of all on the roster. That just proved you have no idea what your looking at when watching football.

You're so right. I forgot all about that. ROFL
He's so full of $hit that I'm agreeing with Raider Fan...:eek:

SNR
08-17-2008, 02:09 PM
Croyle lost all six games as a starter. He's terrible.

Barry Sanders went through many, many shitty years in Detroit as the starting RB. He must be terrible.

Jesus, people. Football is a TEAM sport, assholes. Having great players is nice, but for every Peyton Manning and Tom Brady that wins the Super Bowl, you get a Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, or an Eli Manning. And I refuse to buy the bullshit that just because the QB is the most important position on the offense, a QB that loses games is a terrible QB.

How about we just WAIT and see what happens.

PastorMikH
08-17-2008, 02:40 PM
Eli didn't have the benefit of holding a clipboard one year while learning the speed of the pro game. Croyle should be ahead of him on the learning curve.

If everyone wants to hold Croyle to the Eli standard then fine, he should play in all 16 games this year and finish with 3,700+ yards, 24 TD's, 17 INTs and a 6.8 yard average.



I understand the learning curve bit, we can always point out differing variables - like Croyle didn't have a dad and brother who played in the NFL to get advice from.

I really don't have a problem expecting him to improve from last year, and I'd like to see him compare in completions, TD/INT ratios, as well as QB rating. I would hope that he does better this year than last - he did seem to get more comfortable as the year went on.

The point I was making with that post though had to do with Vanilla Thunder saying he wanted to dump Croyle but would take Eli. The point of the post was to show there really wasn't that much difference between the two QBs in their first starts.

Reaper16
08-17-2008, 04:18 PM
It was your stupid camp reports from last year that said he was looking great and was CLEARLY the better QB of all on the roster. That just proved you have no idea what your looking at when watching football.
Well, that's not saying much. He was better, despite his flaws, than Huard.

Count Alex's Losses
08-17-2008, 04:20 PM
It was your stupid camp reports from last year that said he was looking great and was CLEARLY the better QB of all on the roster. That just proved you have no idea what your looking at when watching football.

Well that was accurate at the time. Croyle had a solid camp. He looked like a completely different player in the preseason.

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2008, 04:21 PM
I've been saying Croyle isn't an NFL caliber QB for about 2 years now

Count Alex's Losses
08-17-2008, 04:22 PM
Yes, it has gotten old.

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2008, 04:23 PM
Speaking of positive: Not a single turnover from Croyle this preseason.

That's only because Herm and Chan have simplified the offense to the point that a 3 year old could run this offense.

It isn't hard NOT to turn the ball over when you aren't attempting anything more than 3-5 yard passes downfield.

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2008, 04:24 PM
We just want to be assured he has what it takes. I don't see that as being alarmist

He doesn't.

Croyle isn't an NFL-caliber QB, but the positive news is he will be the kryptonite that will finally destroy Dictator Carl and his pet Herm once and for all.

Count Alex's Losses
08-17-2008, 04:24 PM
It isn't hard NOT to turn the ball over when you aren't attempting anything more than 3-5 yard passes downfield.

Did you watch the game last week, moron?

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2008, 04:26 PM
Croyle will get better .. the team will too ... believe ....

this sounds like Dictator Carl and Clark Hunt's wet dream for this season... dillusional fans such as the individual quoted above actually believing this team is heading in the right direction.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-17-2008, 04:28 PM
He doesn't.

Croyle isn't an NFL-caliber QB, but the positive news is he will by the kryptonite that will finally destroy Dictator Carl and his pet Herm once and for all.

What's interesting is how this has gotten so blown out of proportion. People flipping out over squat

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2008, 04:33 PM
Brodie Croyle had to be carted off the field vs Detoilet last season with a HAND/WRIST injury. That says it all.

milkman
08-17-2008, 04:35 PM
Brodie Croyle had to be carted off the field vs Detoilet last season with a HAND/WRIST injury. That says it all.

So Dick pulled out.

Count Alex's Losses
08-17-2008, 04:35 PM
Brodie Croyle had to be carted off the field vs Detoilet last season with a HAND/WRIST injury. That says it all.

I don't believe it does. You would like to, however.

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2008, 04:37 PM
I don't believe it does. You would like to, however.

Can you imagine Favre, Brady, Manning or even Trent Green being carted off the field with a HAND injury?

Count Alex's Losses
08-17-2008, 04:38 PM
Can you imagine Favre, Brady, Manning or even Trent Green being carted off the field with a HAND injury?

In a meaningless game in which their team was down 19-0? Yes.

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2008, 04:41 PM
In a meaningless game in which their team was down 19-0? Yes.

For the franchise's supposed "QB of the future", a chance to finally win your first regular season game as a starter is not meaningless.

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2008, 04:43 PM
So Dick pulled out.

I'll bet Vermeil (along with the rest of the NFL) is laughing at the fact the Chiefs actually think Croyle is an NFL-caliber QB.

Count Alex's Losses
08-17-2008, 04:44 PM
Croyle could have fractured his forearm at that point. They didn't know. It made sense to get him off the field.

beach tribe
08-17-2008, 04:47 PM
I've been saying Croyle isn't an NFL caliber QB for about 2 years now

And your opinion is shit.

Skip Towne
08-17-2008, 04:56 PM
And your opinion is shit.

:thumb:

milkman
08-17-2008, 05:06 PM
I'll bet Vermeil (along with the rest of the NFL) is laughing at the fact the Chiefs actually think Croyle is an NFL-caliber QB.

And that don't mean Dick.

milkman
08-17-2008, 05:07 PM
I'll bet Vermeil (along with the rest of the NFL) is laughing at the fact the Chiefs actually think Croyle is an NFL-caliber QB.

Just for the record, the all knowing, all seeing Dick thought that Tony Banks was an NFL calibre QB.

rad
08-17-2008, 07:24 PM
That's only because Herm and Chan have simplified the offense to the point that a 3 year old could run this offense.

It isn't hard NOT to turn the ball over when you aren't attempting anything more than 3-5 yard passes downfield.

Credibility - SHOT!

Wile_E_Coyote
08-23-2008, 06:50 AM
Yes, yes he does

boogblaster
08-23-2008, 10:47 AM
The simple you make something the better it becomes ... However Croyle needs to pick-up his game .....

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 10:48 AM
Credibility - SHOT!

You act as if he had any to begin with...

Smed1065
08-23-2008, 10:52 AM
You act as if he had any to begin with...

I knew DV posted here.

evolve27
08-24-2008, 12:19 AM
Still have seen nothing. I'm thinking wait for Chris Simms to get released or trade for Beck or Daunte Culpepper where are you?

Count Alex's Losses
08-24-2008, 12:20 AM
Honestly, Croyle could have been a lot worse. A lot worse. The INT was basically meaningless.

Doesn't mean he was good, but still...

evolve27
08-24-2008, 12:22 AM
Honestly, Croyle could have been a lot worse. A lot worse. The INT was basically meaningless.

Doesn't mean he was good, but still...

Sugarcoating with Croyle on top.ROFL:shake:

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2008, 02:07 AM
Still have seen nothing. I'm thinking wait for Chris Simms to get released or trade for Beck or Daunte Culpepper where are you?

Culpepper's clearly never been the same since his ACL surgery.

He needs to sit back, take a full year off, properly rehab and try to come back into the league in 2010. He'll only be around 30, which is prime for a QB.

IF his knee can take it. He's a big boy.