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View Full Version : Chiefs Who here believes that Carl Peterson is the sole reason the Chiefs are nt doing well?


Programmer
08-18-2008, 06:41 PM
Poll to come.

blueballs
08-18-2008, 06:43 PM
if he would rub up next to the lineman with
that greasy old leather coat it would good for 3 more wins

OnTheWarpath58
08-18-2008, 06:49 PM
The sole reason?

No, that's ridiculous. There are too many variables in the operation of a professional sports franchise to blame their troubles on one man, and one man alone.

I would say that he is responsible for the majority of the blame, however.

You could also direct a percentage of blame at Lamar/Clark Hunt for allowing him to keep his job while performing well below average.

Another percentage at Vermeil for allowing the team to get as old as it was, with no depth developed whatsoever.

And Herm for not standing up to Peterson in 2007 and starting the rebuilding process in earnest. We'd be another year closer had players like Croyle, Turk, Tank, Taylor, Niswanger etc. had gotten more playing time than the broken down vets ahead of them on the depth chart.

Mr. Kotter
08-18-2008, 06:50 PM
The sole reason? Of course not.

A HUGE reason; year 19 of the 5 year plan is all that needs to be said.

:shakehead:

StcChief
08-18-2008, 06:52 PM
too long here without real results thru draft and free agents to get to playoffs and W.

Deberg_1990
08-18-2008, 06:59 PM
I wouldnt blame him completely. Every team has its ups and downs and he has managed to keep the team competative nearly every year for close to 20 years.


His main problem is, he should have used the plan hes using now (rebuilding with youth) 15 years ago. Wash, rinse, repeat about every 5- 7 years.

Programmer
08-18-2008, 07:04 PM
The sole reason?

No, that's ridiculous. There are too many variables in the operation of a professional sports franchise to blame their troubles on one man, and one man alone.

I would say that he is responsible for the majority of the blame, however.

You could also direct a percentage of blame at Lamar/Clark Hunt for allowing him to keep his job while performing well below average.

Another percentage at Vermeil for allowing the team to get as old as it was, with no depth developed whatsoever.

And Herm for not standing up to Peterson in 2007 and starting the rebuilding process in earnest. We'd be another year closer had players like Croyle, Turk, Tank, Taylor, Niswanger etc. had gotten more playing time than the broken down vets ahead of them on the depth chart.

If you go look at a few of the boards the Chiefs have you will see that many fans feel it's all CP.

I feel he is less responsible when looking at the big picture than most think. He does share in the situation but is not as bad as many feel.

kstater
08-18-2008, 07:07 PM
In the last 20 years, 1 man is the constant. His name, Carl Peterson.

OnTheWarpath58
08-18-2008, 07:09 PM
If you go look at a few of the boards the Chiefs have you will see that many fans feel it's all CP.

I feel he is less responsible when looking at the big picture than most think. He does share in the situation but is not as bad as many feel.

There are plenty here who think it's all on CP as well.

You would have gotten a better barometer of people's thoughts had you broken the poll into percentages, IMO.

FWIW, I'd break it down: (again, considering why the team is in the position they're in right now)

50% Peterson

20% Ownership

20% Vermeil

10% Herm

blueballs
08-18-2008, 07:10 PM
can't this wait until he cuts sippio

Reerun_KC
08-18-2008, 07:12 PM
There are plenty here who think it's all on CP as well.

You would have gotten a better barometer of people's thoughts had you broken the poll into percentages, IMO.

FWIW, I'd break it down: (again, considering why the team is in the position they're in right now)

50% Peterson

20% Ownership

20% Vermeil

10% Herm

Would agree to that...

But when DV left. Peterson should of went with him...

Now we are stuck with Herm, whom we traded a 4th round pick for...ROFL

Count Alex's Losses
08-18-2008, 07:12 PM
I don't think anyone really wants to talk about Carl anymore. It is what it is. He's here for a little bit longer and then we won't have to think about it anymore.

OnTheWarpath58
08-18-2008, 07:13 PM
Would agree to that...

But when DV left. Peterson should of went with him...

Now we are stuck with Herm, whom we traded a 4th round pick for...ROFL


And that is exactly where the 20% goes to ownership, IMO.

Even if they had replaced Peterson with Kuharich, and STILL hired Herm, this team would be MUCH better off than they are today. The rebuilding process would have started 2.5 years ago, instead of 4 months ago.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2008, 07:14 PM
50% Peterson

20% Ownership

20% Vermeil

10% HermThis looks about right. I'd actually remove Herm from this, and give that 10% to CP.

bogey
08-18-2008, 07:14 PM
If Carl Peterson is doing a shitty job and has consistently done a shitty job, the responsibility lies directly on the shoulders of his bosses the Hunts.

OnTheWarpath58
08-18-2008, 07:17 PM
This looks about right. I'd actually remove Herm from this, and give that 10% to CP.

Eh, maybe.

But Herm has to take some heat for not running the team the way HE wanted to. He catered to Carl when it came to playing Huard - among others - instead of telling Peterson that he was in charge of the team.

Carl Peterson has no business in the decision making process when it comes to playing time/depth chart/etc.

Reerun_KC
08-18-2008, 07:25 PM
And that is exactly where the 20% goes to ownership, IMO.

Even if they had replaced Peterson with Kuharich, and STILL hired Herm, this team would be MUCH better off than they are today. The rebuilding process would have started 2.5 years ago, instead of 4 months ago.
That I agree with, but I am sold on the rebuild, just not the clown doing the rebuilding...

But in 2010 we will be relieved of this black cloud and we will see sunlight over arrowhead again!

Reerun_KC
08-18-2008, 07:26 PM
Eh, maybe.

But Herm has to take some heat for not running the team the way HE wanted to. He catered to Carl when it came to playing Huard - among others - instead of telling Peterson that he was in charge of the team.

Carl Peterson has no business in the decision making process when it comes to playing time/depth chart/etc.


True, we have wasted 2 years of his 4 year tenure... Rebuilding is great, loving it, but when you based coaches off W/L's, then Herm has taken every team he has coached and made them worse by the time he will be fired.

Deberg_1990
08-18-2008, 07:33 PM
I blame Lamar mostly. He was far too complacent an owner.

OnTheWarpath58
08-18-2008, 07:35 PM
True, we have wasted 2 years of his 4 year tenure... Rebuilding is great, loving it, but when you based coaches off W/L's, then Herm has taken every team he has coached and made them worse by the time he will be fired.

Eh, we can go round-and-round about Herm's W/L record, we've done it before.

There are people like you that treat it as gospel, and that's fine.

There are others who see a guy with a winning record in 4/7 seasons, and 2 of those seasons were doomed regardless of who was coaching.

Vince Lombardi could have coached the 2005 Jets, and not done much better. It's hard for a rational person to blame a coach for losing 4 QB's to injury, half your OL, and numerous other key contributors.

And honestly, as old and talentless as that team was last year, it's amazing we won 4 games and were close in as many others as we were.

I'm not saying the guy is the next coming of Bill ****ing Walsh, but he gets a lot more heat than he probably deserves if you look at it objectively.

Reerun_KC
08-18-2008, 07:39 PM
Eh, we can go round-and-round about Herm's W/L record, we've done it before.

There are people like you that treat it as gospel, and that's fine.

There are others who see a guy with a winning record in 4/7 seasons, and 2 of those seasons were doomed regardless of who was coaching.

Vince Lombardi could have coached the 2005 Jets, and not done much better. It's hard for a rational person to blame a coach for losing 4 QB's to injury, half your OL, and numerous other key contributors.

And honestly, as old and talentless as that team was last year, it's amazing we won 4 games and were close in as many others as we were.

I'm not saying the guy is the next coming of Bill ****ing Walsh, but he gets a lot more heat than he probably deserves if you look at it objectively.

I have tried to look at it objectively.. I really dont concern myself with W/L's when it comes to the Herm. Also, how does this guy never shoulder any of the blame? Yes it is a miracle how squeeky clean this guy is, while his OCs and players are thrown under the bus repeatedly...

I have yet heard Herm (which I cant stand to listen to) every own up to anything, always someone elses fault..

That is the biggest thing that drives me away from the Herm, that and his love for 1987 football...

OnTheWarpath58
08-18-2008, 07:41 PM
I have tried to look at it objectively.. I really dont concern myself with W/L's when it comes to the Herm. Also, how does this guy never shoulder any of the blame? Yes it is a miracle how squeeky clean this guy is, while his OCs and players are thrown under the bus repeatedly...

I have yet heard Herm (which I cant stand to listen to) every own up to anything, always someone elses fault..

That is the biggest thing that drives me away from the Herm, that and his love for 1987 football...

Who did he throw under the bus? Solari? What players?

FAX
08-18-2008, 07:52 PM
This goes way back. Before Herm, before DV, before Gun .... back to the Marty days.

I haven't seen the titty graph, but we have probably been the worst drafting team in the entire league since the day Carl and Marty drafted DT. Regrettably, Carl has left a trail of sickening, loathsome, and revolting busts in his wake that rivals the work of a blind, psychotic, compulsive, one-fingered sculptor suffering from persistent psilocybin dementia.

For that reason, I must assign 70 percent of the blame to Carl and the rest to whomever the other guys were who had responsibility for our scouting and player development during those depressing years.

FAX

KCTitus
08-18-2008, 08:00 PM
One of the things about the 'Carl' equation...Ive read several posts about year eleventy billion of the 5 year plan. However, that 'plan' has changed over the years, and demonstrably.

For 10 of those years, the offense was an utter joke while defense and special teams won games and got KC into the playoffs.

Then Vermeil molded the team in his image and the 'plan' reversed...all Offense and no Defense.

Now, we have a 3rd and final iteration with a mess...Herm tried to continue the Vermeil left overs then after the abortion of a season that was last season decided to go with the 'youth movement'.

So, did Carl pick some all time ridiculous busts? Sure. However, his signing of Montana is the sole reason KC's won any playoff games in the CP era.

The whole situation sucks and he should have took a hike with DV. Now we're in limbo for another 2 seasons then hopefully new blood comes in and brings a real winning tradition with him.

Reerun_KC
08-18-2008, 08:02 PM
Who did he throw under the bus? Solari? What players?
Let me get back with you on this one... To much Jim Beam this evening already...

RedandGold
08-18-2008, 08:15 PM
Carl has contributed to the coaching and personnel decisions that have resulted in eventual failure, but the fact that he has been retained to continue the Bataan Death March of mediocrity lies solely in the hands of the Hunt family.

I don't blame them for hiring Carl in the first place, but I do blame them for not cleaning house completely after the 1998 season.

FAX
08-18-2008, 08:32 PM
One of the things about the 'Carl' equation...Ive read several posts about year eleventy billion of the 5 year plan. However, that 'plan' has changed over the years, and demonstrably.

For 10 of those years, the offense was an utter joke while defense and special teams won games and got KC into the playoffs.

Then Vermeil molded the team in his image and the 'plan' reversed...all Offense and no Defense.

Now, we have a 3rd and final iteration with a mess...Herm tried to continue the Vermeil left overs then after the abortion of a season that was last season decided to go with the 'youth movement'.

So, did Carl pick some all time ridiculous busts? Sure. However, his signing of Montana is the sole reason KC's won any playoff games in the CP era.

The whole situation sucks and he should have took a hike with DV. Now we're in limbo for another 2 seasons then hopefully new blood comes in and brings a real winning tradition with him.

Good points, Mr. KCTitus. And, as is typical of your posts, the truth of the matter is once again revealed and well stated. However, I see our offense vs defense sickening seesaw of doom problem as being a symptom of the disease - not the root cause. You are, of course, correct about Montana but, again, that move was also a short term fix for the sole purpose of achieving a short term result (which also ultimately failed, obviously).

To me, the common failure throughout all of this nonsense has been the quality of our drafts (or lack, thereof). I've come to believe that our drafting has been the source of most of our woes for the last two decades. Of course, Carl has stated that he has only done what the HCs through the years have wanted him to do - whether that's to fill positions through FA or through the draft, etc. I say that's screwed up thinking. The GM's responsibility and strategic objective (and, therefore, his ongoing, working philosophy) should be to sustain a coherent approach to fielding a team with sufficient on-the-field talent and depth to be a persistent playoff contender and threat and, ultimately, a team that is Super Bowl bound. If what he says is factual, Carl hasn't been consistent. Rather, he's merely responded to the whims of the HC du jour at the cost of the franchise's long-term prospects for success - all during his watch and all under his authority and control.

It's, frankly, amazing that the Chiefs have maintained such an awesome fan base during that time. That's why I must give Carl 70 percent of the Golden Bag Of Dog Doo Award. I wish it were more.

FAX

KCTitus
08-18-2008, 08:46 PM
To me, the common failure throughout all of this nonsense has been the quality of our drafts (or lack, thereof). I've come to believe that our drafting has been the source of most of our woes for the last two decades. Of course, Carl has stated that he has only done what the HCs through the years have wanted him to do - whether that's to fill positions through FA or through the draft, etc. I say that's screwed up thinking. The GM's responsibility and strategic objective (and, therefore, his ongoing, working philosophy) should be to sustain a coherent approach to fielding a team with sufficient on-the-field talent and depth to be a persistent playoff contender and threat and, ultimately, a team that is Super Bowl bound. If what he says is factual, Carl hasn't been consistent. Rather, he's merely responded to the whims of the HC du jour at the cost of the franchise's long-term prospects for success - all during his watch and all under his authority and control.

Not being versed in any other team, I really cant speak to other teams GM's operating philosophy. Clearly there does appear to be teams where the GM/Owner hires the coaches to meet their talent (the obvious ones would be Dallas/Washington) and there are others that hire a coach(es) that do the job of evaluating talent and pick the players.

Bad picks, horrible FA contracts and a seeming inability to have balance on both sides of the ball have been maddening. Is it Carl's fault? Yeah. Is it the HC's fault? Him too. Is it Hunt's fault? Sure.

At this point, I just prefer he go, because this version of the 5 year plan is by far the worst yet.

Guru
08-18-2008, 08:50 PM
Sole reason? No.

But I can't stand the man so I voted Yes anyway.

OnTheWarpath58
08-18-2008, 08:53 PM
Fish voted yes?

That's odd. He's a pretty rational/level headed guy. Surprised he thinks it's 100% on Carl...

chiefs1111
08-18-2008, 08:58 PM
I wouldn't put it all on Carl but he deserves his share of the blame.

Tiger's Fan
08-18-2008, 09:23 PM
The Hunts deserve as much of the blame as Carl. They left him in there, and gave him too much power.