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Friendo
08-20-2008, 11:54 AM
so I take my rising 10th grade daughter to HS last night for class orientation and to meet the instructors. She is in a selected group of the Chorus, which placed first in the nation at Carnegie Hall last year. Met the Director last night, and frankly he gives me the creeps. 30-ish, decent looking dude, and he was dressed out in gym shorts as he helps coach the JV soccer team. From last year, I observed that he's a very demanding & temperamental Director, but I guess that goes with the territory if you're going to be a "player" nationally. He seems to cultivate that kind of strangely close teacher-student dynamic that you often see with high-achieving coaches. I wouldn't classify my daughter as stunning, but she certainly lives in the neighborhood. His first comment to her as we approached last night was "I like the hair". Don't want to be "that father", but the warning bells & whistles are going off. Talk to me...

Goapics1
08-20-2008, 11:58 AM
I wouldn't classify my daughter as stunning, but she certainly lives in the neighborhood.
Pics?

Reerun_KC
08-20-2008, 11:59 AM
Pics?
Dude, you shouldnt ask someone pics of his underage daughter...

Reerun_KC
08-20-2008, 12:01 PM
Well Friendo, Is he just that way with her or other students (female)? He could be just trying to bond with them to earn trust that he is going to lead them in the right direction?

chasedude
08-20-2008, 12:01 PM
Most of the Choir directors I had in HS were gay. Maybe he's a "hair guy" ;)

el borracho
08-20-2008, 12:03 PM
Shave your daughter's head and make her wear an "Amy Winehouse" wig until she is 35. Problem solved.

El Jefe
08-20-2008, 12:04 PM
Pics?

That's creepy. Why do you want to see pics of a 15-16 year old. :shake:

Jilly
08-20-2008, 12:05 PM
I wouldn't worry unless you see him breaking some of the main codes: being alone with students, unnecessarily hugging...I'd also pay attention to her facebook or myspace and make sure he isn't on one of those and if he is, pay close attention to his interchanges with people. It's easier on myspace because you don't have to ask to be "friends" to see their profile...but there is a lot of inappropriateness, imo, between students and teachers on those sites and by inappropriate, I don't even mean sex stuff, I just mean that some teachers shouldn't be "friends" or "buddies" with students, but should have some boundaries.

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:05 PM
Well Friendo, Is he just that way with her or other students (female)? He could be just trying to bond with them to earn trust that he is going to lead them in the right direction?

I haven't been around the program long enough to really know. One of her best friends is in this group also, and we are good friends with the Mom who btw is a counselor in the district. I do plan to bounce my concerns off her.

RJ
08-20-2008, 12:06 PM
That's a tough one. You don't want to jump to conclusions but at the same time I don't think you should ignore your instincts either. Maybe you or mom should have a talk with your daughter. Not necessarily about that teacher, just about being a little cautious around adult males. Not distrustful, just cautious.

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:06 PM
I wouldn't worry unless you see him breaking some of the main codes: being alone with students, unnecessarily hugging...I'd also pay attention to her facebook or myspace and make sure he isn't on one of those and if he is, pay close attention to his interchanges with people. It's easier on myspace because you don't have to ask to be "friends" to see their profile...but there is a lot of inappropriateness, imo, between students and teachers on those sites and by inappropriate, I don't even mean sex stuff, I just mean that some teachers shouldn't be "friends" or "buddies" with students, but should have some boundaries.

good stuff Jilly!

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:08 PM
That's a tough one. You don't want to jump to conclusions but at the same time I don't think you should ignore your instincts either. Maybe you or mom should have a talk with your daughter. Not necessarily about that teacher, just about being a little cautious around adult males. Not distrustful, just cautious.


that's what I was thinking too-it's easy for her to be "star-struck" and I'm not at all sure I didn't recognize a little of that-thanks!

Short Leash Hootie
08-20-2008, 12:08 PM
I'm 23...

When I was in high school, everyone had some serious suspicions our varsity basketball coach was fooling around with several students...

It was always more of a joke because we knew there was no way he could actually be sleeping with these high school girls considering he was mid 30's, had a wife and a newborn...he was an attractive, cocky guy but no way...

Wrong.

He got busted in the country with an 18 year old chick who he had been sleeping with for over a year...

Turned out he had sex with 6, 7 high school girls and 3 or 4 teachers...

Needless to say he doesn't have his teaching certificate anymore and he skipped town...but you'd be amazed. If you see the signs, watch out...because the girl that the coach got caught with never lived it down and eventually left town, too.

Short Leash Hootie
08-20-2008, 12:08 PM
That's creepy. Why do you want to see pics of a 15-16 year old. :shake:

Isn't that 16 year old Shawn Johnson in your avatar? ROFL

Buehler445
08-20-2008, 12:09 PM
Friendo, I don't have kids, but I would tell you that you are not pulling this out of left field. It is a pretty valid concern. I'd watch it closely if I were you. A lot of people I work with have expressed similar concerns.
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Chiefnj2
08-20-2008, 12:12 PM
I guess I'm missing something. If he didn't say "I like the hair" would there be a problem?

RJ
08-20-2008, 12:15 PM
I guess I'm missing something. If he didn't say "I like the hair" would there be a problem?



But he did say "I like the hair".

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:19 PM
But he did say "I like the hair".

didn't Sting write a song about this very thing? not just my imagination--I suppose the best thing to do is talk to my daughter--uncomfortable indeed!

DeezNutz
08-20-2008, 12:19 PM
Did she just have something dramatically different done to her hair? If so, it wouldn't seem out of place for her to get similar comments from lots of different people.

Reerun_KC
08-20-2008, 12:19 PM
Isn't that 16 year old Shawn Johnson in your avatar? ROFL
Was going to ask the same question....

underEJ
08-20-2008, 12:20 PM
I'm not a parent, but I was once a teenage girl, and the story is always the same. You are ten times better off developing your daughter's warning bells and whistles than trying to preempt and protect which I'm sure is any good father's first instinct.

Girls aren't taught to have power in the right way. Everyone has the power to control their own involvement in a situation, and if you approach any situation with all the correct boundaries in place, there is room for those intense relationships with mentors whether male or female.

As a father, what you can't count on, is the mentor/ coach being able to set those boundaries all by themself, especially if they are young or haven't been teaching long. Teach your daughter to appreciate and trust a mentor, but to keep it transparent to you or others always. There is never a time when secrets are shared with them that she wouldn't share with you or her best friend.

CoMoChief
08-20-2008, 12:20 PM
I really wouldn't look too much into it. Now when she starts going over to his house for private lessons, then you need to start worrying.

Reerun_KC
08-20-2008, 12:20 PM
A lot of people I work with have expressed similar concerns.
Posted via Mobile Device

Probably about you.... ROFL

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:21 PM
Did she just have something dramatically different done to her hair? If so, it wouldn't seem out of place for her to get similar comments from lots of different people.

fair enough--yes, but it was the only comment that I heard all night.

Phobia
08-20-2008, 12:23 PM
People in a position to work with teenagers have to find a way to connect with them. First impressions are important and they know that. If you pay an attractive teenager a compliment about her hair in front of her father that's innocent, IMO. He made a point to do it while you were there - that's a courtesy with which you should not feel threatened. Now if he's doing it while unattended then you have problems.

bogey
08-20-2008, 12:23 PM
Listen to your "bells and whistles" talk to other parents that have had contact with him. Actively practice communication with your daughter.

Reerun_KC
08-20-2008, 12:24 PM
I haven't been around the program long enough to really know. One of her best friends is in this group also, and we are good friends with the Mom who btw is a counselor in the district. I do plan to bounce my concerns off her.
That might be a good start, see if there are any other concerns from other parents...

this could go a couple of ways, You could actually be one of many that have concerns and prevent or stop something from happening... OR it could be totally false and these comments could ruin the future for this guy, when he is totally innocent.

It is a very fine line, I am not sure how I would approach it. My daughter goes to a private Christian school and I have most if not all of her teaches/principles etc on speed dial. So far the school is very very good and nothing likes this has even remotely been an issue.

Reerun_KC
08-20-2008, 12:24 PM
fair enough--yes, but it was the only comment that I heard all night.
could of been just trying to make her relax and feel welcome into the chior?

Reerun_KC
08-20-2008, 12:25 PM
Listen to your "bells and whistles" talk to other parents that have had contact with him. Actively practice communication with your daughter.
True, but dont start something that isnt true. be coy about your approach and feel out the other parents before you start saying anything... Let someone else insert foot into mouth.

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:26 PM
People in a position to work with teenagers have to find a way to connect with them. First impressions are important and they know that. If you pay an attractive teenager a compliment about her hair in front of her father that's innocent, IMO. He made a point to do it while you were there - that's a courtesy with which you should not feel threatened. Now if he's doing it while unattended then you have problems.

good point--ftr--it wasn't so much the comment, as the comment in concert with my other concerns.

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:28 PM
That might be a good start, see if there are any other concerns from other parents...

this could go a couple of ways, You could actually be one of many that have concerns and prevent or stop something from happening... OR it could be totally false and these comments could ruin the future for this guy, when he is totally innocent.

It is a very fine line, I am not sure how I would approach it. My daughter goes to a private Christian school and I have most if not all of her teaches/principles etc on speed dial. So far the school is very very good and nothing likes this has even remotely been an issue.

I wouldn't go that route ever--I really think this is more about her and her "sensibilities" than it is about him, and any real or perceived concerns.

DeezNutz
08-20-2008, 12:32 PM
fair enough--yes, but it was the only comment that I heard all night.

Then I wouldn't worry too much; this seems pretty innocent. That said, it's still worth finding out more info. about anyone that is around your daughter.

Buehler445
08-20-2008, 12:32 PM
Probably about you.... ROFL

ROFL Perhaps, but my boss did send her 5th grade daughter up to dance with me at the dollar dance at the wedding. I wasn't real sure how to dance with a 5th grader, particularly since I'm a giant, but I'm still employed, so I guess I did OK.

Posted via Mobile Device

Chiefnj2
08-20-2008, 12:37 PM
good point--ftr--it wasn't so much the comment, as the comment in concert with my other concerns.

Your other concerns are that the guy is good looking and wearing shorts?

DeezNutz
08-20-2008, 12:38 PM
Your other concerns are that the guy is good looking and wearing shorts?

Man, I'm ****ed. Pants only from here on out. :D

FAX
08-20-2008, 12:38 PM
I'm not a parent, but I was once a teenage girl, and the story is always the same. You are ten times better off developing your daughter's warning bells and whistles than trying to preempt and protect which I'm sure is any good father's first instinct.

Girls aren't taught to have power in the right way. Everyone has the power to control their own involvement in a situation, and if you approach any situation with all the correct boundaries in place, there is room for those intense relationships with mentors whether male or female.

As a father, what you can't count on, is the mentor/ coach being able to set those boundaries all by themself, especially if they are young or haven't been teaching long. Teach your daughter to appreciate and trust a mentor, but to keep it transparent to you or others always. There is never a time when secrets are shared with them that she wouldn't share with you or her best friend.

Good advice, here, I think.

This may be an opportunity to open up a level of communication with your daughter that might otherwise go unexplored. I'm sure she's smart and will know when things get creepy. The key is that, if and when creepy happens, she talks with you in order that you may pay a visit to this clown with a baseball bat and some words of advice.

FAX

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:39 PM
Your other concerns are that the guy is good looking and wearing shorts?

do you have, or have you raised a teen-aged daughter?

DeezNutz
08-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Good advice, here, I think.

This may be an opportunity to open up a level of communication with your daughter that might otherwise go unexplored. I'm sure she's smart and will know when things get creepy. The key is that, if and when creepy happens, she talks with you in order that you may have the police pay a visit to this clown with tasers and guns.

FAX

FYP

Chiefnj2
08-20-2008, 12:42 PM
do you have, or have you raised a teen-aged daughter?

No.

The teacher made a comment in front of you to your daughter about your daughter's hair which I believe you stated was in fact changed or cut or altered somehow. That's the situation you presented.

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:42 PM
Good advice, here, I think.

This may be an opportunity to open up a level of communication with your daughter that might otherwise go unexplored. I'm sure she's smart and will know when things get creepy. The key is that, if and when creepy happens, she talks with you in order that you may pay a visit to this clown with a baseball bat and some words of advice.

FAX

noteworthy advice yes, but if I was a man in the same position, and was inclined to such, I would also be inclined to target a more culpable target..ie-that impressionable girl who appeared "star-struck".

Jilly
08-20-2008, 12:51 PM
not to make the issue worse, but my band teacher f-ed the first chair flute, got caught, lost his job and his marriage....and it RUINED BAND CAMP FOREVER.... seriously though...when I look back, all the warning signs were there. He would give her rides to places, they'd be in the office with the door shut, he'd come up to her and side hug her, etc etc... I think those are the real warning signals.

And yes, I was in band. And no, I did not stick a flute up my vajayjay

Friendo
08-20-2008, 12:57 PM
not to make the issue worse, but my band teacher f-ed the first chair flute, got caught, lost his job and his marriage....and it RUINED BAND CAMP FOREVER.... seriously though...when I look back, all the warning signs were there. He would give her rides to places, they'd be in the office with the door shut, he'd come up to her and side hug her, etc etc... I think those are the real warning signals.

And yes, I was in band. And no, I did not stick a flute up my vajayjay

and it does take two to tango--honestly-did you ever "daydream" about any male teachers? nothing wrong with that, but the adult is supposed to know better!

FAX
08-20-2008, 01:01 PM
noteworthy advice yes, but if I was a man in the same position, and was inclined to such, I would also be inclined to target a more culpable target..ie-that impressionable girl who appeared "star-struck".

Hmmm. Well, I suppose it all boils down to A) How well you and your daughter can communicate on the subject of predators and B) Whether or not she fully understands the ramifications of acting on her "impressionable" tendencies, Mr. Friendo. Countering the "star quality" of this teacher person should be fairly easy simply by pointing out that he is not, in fact, the reincarnation of Mozart. If you are confident in your relationship with your daughter and she is aware of the consequences of acting out with this guy (all of which are negative) and has her priorities straight, this lemon is magically converted to lemonade because your relationship is made more real and meaningful

The choice is between empowering your daughter or disembowling her teacher before he's actually done anything. Were it me, I would choose the former approach because those are lessons that will prove valuable throughout her life.

FAX

phisherman
08-20-2008, 01:01 PM
not to make the issue worse, but my band teacher f-ed the first chair flute, got caught, lost his job and his marriage....and it RUINED BAND CAMP FOREVER.... seriously though...when I look back, all the warning signs were there. He would give her rides to places, they'd be in the office with the door shut, he'd come up to her and side hug her, etc etc... I think those are the real warning signals.

And yes, I was in band. And no, I did not stick a flute up my vajayjay

that teacher's name is just soaked in irony

Jilly
08-20-2008, 01:02 PM
and it does take two to tango--honestly-did you ever "daydream" about any male teachers? nothing wrong with that, but the adult is supposed to know better!

not until grad school, to be honest. I went to Truman, they weren't all that good looking.

Jilly
08-20-2008, 01:03 PM
that teacher's name is just soaked in irony

ROFL true, very very true

phisherman
08-20-2008, 01:06 PM
not until grad school, to be honest. I went to Truman, they weren't all that good looking.

not even mr. morris?

i thought all the chicks loved that dude.

JimNasium
08-20-2008, 01:07 PM
That's creepy. Why do you want to see pics of a 15-16 year old. :shake:

I laughed. It's freaking Chiefsplanet....if you post a question or a comment about your wife/girlfriend/daughter/female counsin/mother/grandmother you should expect a comment that's inappropriate. Lighten up Francis.

Demonpenz
08-20-2008, 01:08 PM
If it is ment to be. He can wait until she is 18

Friendo
08-20-2008, 01:09 PM
I laughed. It's freaking Chiefsplanet....if you post a question or a comment about your wife/girlfriend/daughter/female counsin/mother/grandmother you should expect a comment that's inappropriate. Lighten up Francis.


frankly, I expected Brian to swoop in & trash the thread--it's early yet.

Demonpenz
08-20-2008, 01:10 PM
Someone could probably talk to the teacher and explain that he can wait

DeezNutz
08-20-2008, 01:11 PM
If it is ment to be. He can wait until she is 18

ROFL

DeezNutz
08-20-2008, 01:12 PM
And if she's hurt, she should sit out; it's better for the choir as a whole.

Fishpicker
08-20-2008, 01:12 PM
NSFW-L
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8APlx9btTn8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8APlx9btTn8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
NSFW-L

you should look in on your kid. But you shouldn't assume that you need to run interference on every eccentric your daughter meets.

Jilly
08-20-2008, 01:13 PM
not even mr. morris?

i thought all the chicks loved that dude.

gross....I never got what the attraction was there. Mr Steele was about the closest to cute, but he was gay, so....

Phobia
08-20-2008, 01:15 PM
If it is ment to be. He can wait until she is 18
One of the guys I grew up with did that. He was a new teacher right out of college and fell in love with one of his students. He was very forthright about his intentions and waiting until she had graduated and turned 18 before pursuing a relationship. To my knowledge they're still happily married today.

Demonpenz
08-20-2008, 01:15 PM
I used to train girls at my old work. They were pretty good looking and because they hadn't gone to college yet they weren't all beat up from pizza and binge drinking. You just need to know your boundries. When they turn 18 is the time to make your move.

Demonpenz
08-20-2008, 01:16 PM
One of the guys I grew up with did that. He was a new teacher right out of college and fell in love with one of his students. He was very forthright about his intentions and waiting until she had graduated and turned 18 before pursuing a relationship. To my knowledge they're still happily married today.

Exactly. If I was friendo I would just enjoy the 1720 days he has left.

Phobia
08-20-2008, 01:17 PM
Your other concerns are that the guy is good looking and wearing shorts?

Heh. That was my thought as well but I don't think I'd have been so crass this time. That's not an indictment or chastisement towards you, just kinda agreeing with you.

Jewish Rabbi
08-20-2008, 01:29 PM
Isn't that 16 year old Shawn Johnson in your avatar? ROFL

That's actually Alicia Sacramone (sp), who is 18...

RJ
08-20-2008, 01:32 PM
Your other concerns are that the guy is good looking and wearing shorts?



What you're not considering - and this is an important point - is that it is Friendo's job to be overprotective and to overreact in all things regarding his daughter. He's a dad, he's supposed to be a jerk sometimes. :)

Jewish Rabbi
08-20-2008, 01:35 PM
But seriously, I was in a similar situation to this last year. My band teacher kept making inappropriate advances on a few girls, giving them hugs, special treatment, calling them "hun", etc. It didn't help that people would walk into his classroom and oftentimes he was alone with one or both of these girls. A few of my friends and I became concerned about this, and long story short, rumors were started that we said accused band teacher and students were having sex, we were blackmailed by his wife, and we ended up getting detentions for insubordination. Part of the reason it got so blown out of the water was a para in our district just got arrested on felony child pron charges, and the middle school principal arrested for stealing from Wal Mart. However, the teacher did stop doing these things.

My aunt was a special education teacher in Brookfield. She has told me that she can't even initiate hugs with handicapped people, even tho they are so affectionate. If the kid initiates it, it's fine.

Seriously, talk to your daughter. There may be nothing, but these days you can't bank on it. Maybe even go to the administration with your concerns. Tell them it's all suspicion, but it's a situation worth monitoring.

DaKCMan AP
08-20-2008, 01:51 PM
That's actually Alicia Sacramone (sp), who is 18...

It's Sacramone, but she's 20. Liukin is 18.

Braincase
08-20-2008, 05:04 PM
"You complment the hair, I can deal with it. You say anything about her ass, and we have a jumbo, Class A problem. Capice?"

Sure-Oz
08-20-2008, 05:12 PM
good stuff Jilly!

If she has a myspace she can make it private