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Tribal Warfare
08-20-2008, 11:58 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/758329.html


Chiefs seek ways to get more sacks
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

It’s been the equivalent of only one game, making it far too early for panic or worry.

Except Tamba Hali is filled with panic and worry. He’s the right defensive end, the player the Chiefs designated as their new featured pass rusher and the replacement for Jared Allen, the NFL’s reigning sack king.

And through two halves of preseason football, Hali has yet to put a quarterback on the ground, making it seem like forever since he’s had a sack.

“There’s a lot of pressure because I am playing on that right side, and there’s a label on my head that I’m supposed to be replacing Jared,” said Hali, who moved over from left end when the Chiefs traded Allen to Minnesota. “How many times am I going to get to the quarterback? A lot of people want to know that. I want to know that.”

The Chiefs’ goal is to somehow make up the 15 1/2 sacks lost when they sent Allen away. If they don’t come from Hali, they’ll have to come from somewhere, and the Chiefs are still sorting through their options for that.

“When you trade away a very good player, you never look at it as, ‘Well, we’ve got to find somebody to replace him,’ ” coach Herm Edwards said. “You’re not going to replace the guy. You have to figure out, ‘OK, we got rid of this guy, so what are we going to do now?’ You don’t put the pressure on another player. You don’t put it on Tamba. You don’t put it on (left end Turk McBride).

“We’ll find a way to get to the quarterback. In a perfect world, you’d like to rush four guys every time to get to the quarterback. Most teams can’t do that, so you’ve got to bring pressure from somewhere.”

The Chiefs have spent the four weeks since the start of training camp tinkering with their pass rush. McBride and Tank Tyler joined the starting defensive line, replacing Alfonso Boone and Ron Edwards.

Now that Glenn Dorsey is back from his knee injury, the Chiefs have also settled on their nickel pass rush, with Boone replacing Tyler.

They are hopeful but unsure whether that lineup will be enough.

“You can do it a couple ways,” Edwards said. “If you have a really good front four, you can rush them that way. If not, you’ve got to start bringing pressure. We’re able to do that. We’ve got some linebackers that can rush. They’re pretty good blitzers.

“Now, if you do that, you’re going to have to play man-to-man (coverage). In man-to-man, you’ve got to have some corners you feel can cover. We drafted some guys here that we think can cover.”

The Chiefs would obviously prefer that Hali make up most of what they lost without Allen. They immediately tabbed him as Allen’s replacement after the trade with Minnesota and the acquisition of Dorsey with their first draft pick.

Not only is Hali having trouble dealing with heavier expectations, but he’s trying to get comfortable in his new position after two seasons at left end.

“It’s coming, though,” he said. “I’ve got to be patient with it. I can’t get frustrated, even though I do sometimes. It’s a lot different. I’m having to focus a lot on the pass. I love playing the run, but that can’t be my focus anymore.

“It’s an adjustment. I hope that after some more (snaps) over there, gradually I’ll feel more at home. Maybe it will become second nature to me.”

Chiefs seek ways to get more sacks

McBride leads the Chiefs with three sacks, though one came against Chicago when he happened to fall on quarterback Kyle Orton, who dropped the ball without being hit.

Still, his start has the Chiefs encouraged.

“There’s not a lot of (pass rushers),” Edwards said. “They’re hard to find, and you never know who they are. No one knew who Jared Allen was. He was a fourth-round pick. Who knew he was going to be a heck of a pass rusher? It took him four years to develop that skill.

“(McBride) is only in his second year. You have to give the guy a chance.”

A second-round pick last year, McBride was disappointing to the Chiefs as a rookie. They believed he would eventually be a part-time player, at best.

But he played well enough early in camp that they vaulted McBride over Boone and into the starting lineup.

“Everything seemed like it came too fast for me last year,” McBride said. “Now it’s starting to slow down. I took it upon myself in the offseason to really study the game and study the defense. A lot of veterans told me the biggest jump I would have is from your first year to your second year.”

Linebacker Derrick Johnson has been an effective pass rusher for the Chiefs in the last couple of seasons. They experimented with Demorrio Williams as a hand-on-the-ground pass rusher in certain situations and were pleasantly surprised by the results.

Williams was a strong pass rusher in college at Nebraska but was used little as a rusher the last four seasons with Atlanta.

The Chiefs’ plans for Williams could be affected by a broken bone in his hand. He missed practice for the first time Wednesday and said doctors told him he won’t play in either of the final two preseason games.

If he plays in the Sept. 7 season opener at New England, Williams said he would have to wear a cast.

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:07 AM
This is going to be a running theme all year.

Pablo
08-21-2008, 12:08 AM
Why would they want to get more sacks?

I don't get it.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2008, 12:09 AM
next thing you know, they will be telling us they want to get "Yards in Chunks" on offense....

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:11 AM
next thing you know, they will be telling us they want to get "Yards in Chunks" on offense....

It's gonna suck when we have to draft a QB first next year when we need a DE pretty bad.

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 12:14 AM
It's gonna suck when we have to draft a QB first next year when we need a DE pretty bad.

Jesus Christ.

****.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2008, 12:15 AM
It's gonna suck when we have to draft a QB first next year when we need a DE pretty bad.

Well there is always Huard...


lets just hope Mecca, that it doesnt come down to this!

FAX
08-21-2008, 12:16 AM
For crying out loud, Mr. Debbie Downer. Your record is stuck, peep.

FAX

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:17 AM
Jesus Christ.

****.

That's pretty much reality, the odds are Croyle isn't the guy. Personally I'll be surprised if he doesn't get injured.

I'm looking at this as it would be a nice surprise if he turned out to be the guy but I'm going to plan that he isn't.

Why should I have any reason to think he's the guy? If a QB on any team that wasn't ours had done exactly what he had done we'd all laugh that he was starting. If this was the Broncos we'd all be laughing at them. Just try to look at it from a different perspective sometime.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2008, 12:18 AM
Personally I'll be surprised if he doesn't get injured.

yeah I worry about Dorsey and his ability to stay on the field....

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 12:27 AM
If a QB on any team that wasn't ours had done exactly what he had done we'd all laugh that he was starting.

Is there really a huge difference between Cutler and Croyle after one year?

Cutler - 5 starts, 1,001 yards, 59.1 %, 9 TD, 5 INT
Croyle - 6 starts, 1,227 yards, 56.7 %, 6 TD, 6 INT

I mean, is that really cause to LAUGH at anyone else's young quarterback. I don't think so. It could be a lot worse. I'm laughing at Kellen Clemens for sure.

Clemens - 8 starts, 1,529 yards, 52 percent, 5 TD, 10 INT

Reerun_KC
08-21-2008, 12:28 AM
Is there really a huge difference between Cutler and Croyle after one year?

Cutler - 5 starts, 1,001 yards, 59.1 %, 9 TD, 5 INT
Croyle - 6 starts, 1,227 yards, 56.7 %, 6 TD, 6 INT

I mean, is that really cause to LAUGH at anyone else's young quarterback. I don't think so. It could be a lot worse. I'm laughing at Kellen Clemens for sure.

Clemens - 8 starts, 1,529 yards, 52 percent, 5 TD, 10 INT

what is croyles completion %?

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:28 AM
I'm gonna tell you right now if you made a comment about this to anyone that wasn't a Chiefs fan they'd put Croyle alot closer to Clemens than they would Cutler.

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 12:29 AM
I'm gonna tell you right now if you made a comment about this to anyone that wasn't a Chiefs fan they'd put Croyle alot closer to Clemens than they would Cutler.

Probably because the average NFL fan doesn't know who the **** Brodie Croyle is. They're ****ing ignorant. Just like the vast majority of the media who say LOL BRODIE CROYLE? MMMKAY!

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:30 AM
Just for humor sake Brodie Croyle and Kellen Clemens played a game last year guess which QB got the win....

I don't like Clemens at all for the record so don't think I'm saying that. I also don't believe Croyle is remotely close to Cutler as a prospect.

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 12:31 AM
Just for humor sake Brodie Croyle and Kellen Clemens played a game last year guess which QB got the win....


That has nothing to do with this conversation. Clemens team ran the ball. Croyle's team didn't. That has a lot more to do with who won.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2008, 12:32 AM
Just for humor sake Brodie Croyle and Kellen Clemens played a game last year guess which QB got the win....

I don't like Clemens at all for the record so don't think I'm saying that. I also don't believe Croyle is remotely close to Cutler as a prospect.

Coaching can trumph talent....

That game was like watching to retards fight over a box of gobstoppers...

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:33 AM
Brodie Croyle not winning any games and being heavily injury prone is a pretty big reason people laugh when you bring him up...the same way we laugh at Clemens, or say JaMarcus Russell.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2008, 12:34 AM
Brodie Croyle not winning any games and being heavily injury prone is a pretty big reason people laugh when you bring him up...
:eek:

And your telling me Manning or Brady could of won last year during our last 3-4 games of the season with this team, OC and HC?

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 12:36 AM
Brodie Croyle not winning any games and being heavily injury prone is a pretty big reason people laugh when you bring him up...the same way we laugh at Clemens, or say JaMarcus Russell.

He didn't win any games because he was on a shit team.

We laugh at Clemens because he SUCKS. Russell get laughed at because he was the top overall pick and was fat.

Croyle gets laughed at because people are ignorant. He wasn't horrible last year. Lots of quarterbacks have looked significantly worse in their first NFL action.

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:36 AM
:eek:

And your telling me Manning or Brady could of won last year during our last 3-4 games of the season with this team, OC and HC?

Make them a playoff team, no, win some games, yes. Indy is a team that can win with their entire offensive line injured and scrub guys playing because Manning knows exactly how to move in the pocket get the ball out and absord hits that won't injure him.

That dude can work with anything. That's why he's a hall of famer and probably the greatest QB of this generation.

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 12:38 AM
Mecca, what does Croyle have to do this year to convince you we don't need a QB next year? Just curious. Stats? W-L record?

Reerun_KC
08-21-2008, 12:39 AM
That dude can work with anything.


Give him Herm and see what happens...

Herm could of taken the Pats 18-1 team of a year ago, with the same players and make them a 10-6 team with a first round ass whopping...

Coaching has a lot to do with it, Yes Manning is God on the Field, but he has a coach willing to let him and the OC produce results.

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:40 AM
Mecca, what does Croyle have to do this year to convince you we don't need a QB next year? Just curious. Stats? W-L record?

I gotta see how he plays, he can't shit himself in every pressure shot and he has to stay healthy that is the #1 thing. I don't think the Chiefs can win more than 5 games even if he's good so it's not totally about that to me, but they can't have the #1 pick either.

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:41 AM
Give him Herm and see what happens...

Herm could of taken the Pats 18-1 team of a year ago, with the same players and make them a 10-6 team with a first round ass whopping...

Coaching has a lot to do with it, Yes Manning is God on the Field, but he has a coach willing to let him and the OC produce results.

Dungy is alot like Herm remember what happened when he first went there, you know what makes Manning who he is?

When Dungy wanted to punt and Manning told the punt to get off the field. Manning would not allow Dungy to ruin his offense, now Dungy accepts it, remember at first people going nuts that Manning was overruling his head coach?

Manning had the sack to not let a conservative by nature coach screw things up. Herm will never be successful till that happens top him, till his QB says look ****er this is how it's done so blow me. And if he bitches he goes...if one of you goes it's you not me I'm the god damn franchise.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 12:43 AM
Make them a playoff team, no, win some games, yes. Indy is a team that can win with their entire offensive line injured and scrub guys playing because Manning knows exactly how to move in the pocket get the ball out and absord hits that won't injure him.

That dude can work with anything. That's why he's a hall of famer and probably the greatest QB of this generation.

Where are the gobbstoppers I found the retard.
Scrub guys on the entire line huh and still win?
Payton is great but come on.

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:45 AM
How many injuries did the Colts have on their offense last year? When the Chiefs were playing them they had their 4th OT and a guard playing the tackle spots...yet they still won games.

Harrison missed nearly the entire season, yet Manning was Manning.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 12:48 AM
They also had a step in #1 in Wayne and Addai and D. Clark and a Defense and and and

Mecca
08-21-2008, 12:50 AM
I'm simply telling you if all those things happened to the Chiefs offense everyone would be like "oh you can't blame him guys were hurt" Manning won games with it.

Generally good QB's make your team better, either way it's put up or shutup time for Croyle.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 01:05 AM
So Brodie gets 6 starts and one year? Thanks for your generosity. I am glad the Giants did not give up on Eli that quick.

Mecca
08-21-2008, 01:07 AM
So Brodie gets 6 starts and one year? Thanks for your generosity. I am glad the Giants did not give up on Eli that quick.

#1 pick, 3rd round pick........also Eli Manning has been pretty underwhelming. It's like people forget that.

Croyle has this year, I like how when I say something that is glossed over he has this season. It's put up or shutup time for him simple as that.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 01:10 AM
I cant wait till the season starts and I can watch as you eat all the crow I can find. He will do well.

Mecca
08-21-2008, 01:13 AM
Tell me what doing well is....you could have very low standards..at this point I think not getting injured wuld be a start.

A cold hard truth right now...

-Brodie Croyle has a career passer rating of 65.8
-Phillip Rivers has a career passer rating of 86.6
-Jay cutler has a career passer rating of 88.2

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 01:14 AM
Is there really a huge difference between Cutler and Croyle after one year?

Cutler - 5 starts, 1,001 yards, 59.1 %, 9 TD, 5 INT
Croyle - 6 starts, 1,227 yards, 56.7 %, 6 TD, 6 INT

I mean, is that really cause to LAUGH at anyone else's young quarterback. I don't think so. It could be a lot worse. I'm laughing at Kellen Clemens for sure.

Clemens - 8 starts, 1,529 yards, 52 percent, 5 TD, 10 INT

I am looking at these stats

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 01:15 AM
Tell me what doing well is....you could have very low standards..at this point I think not getting injured wuld be a start.

A cold hard truth right now...

-Brodie Croyle has a career passer rating of 65.8
-Phillip Rivers has a career passer rating of 86.6
-Jay cutler has a career passer rating of 88.2

Pre Season rating?

Mecca
08-21-2008, 01:16 AM
Those are career stats....we'll see what Croyles is at the end of the year if it's still in the 60's no dice.

Von Dumbass
08-21-2008, 07:11 AM
Is there really a huge difference between Cutler and Croyle after one year?

Cutler - 5 starts, 1,001 yards, 59.1 %, 9 TD, 5 INT
Croyle - 6 starts, 1,227 yards, 56.7 %, 6 TD, 6 INT

I mean, is that really cause to LAUGH at anyone else's young quarterback. I don't think so. It could be a lot worse. I'm laughing at Kellen Clemens for sure.

Clemens - 8 starts, 1,529 yards, 52 percent, 5 TD, 10 INT

Brodie Croyle QB Rating 69.9
Jay Cutler QB Rating (rookie) 88.5

Brodie Croyle YPA 5.5
Jay Cutler YPA 7.3

And Cutler was actually a rookie that year. Croyle was a 2nd year player. They are not even close.

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 07:12 AM
Brodie Croyle QB Rating 69.9
Jay Cutler QB Rating (rookie) 88.5

Brodie Croyle YPA 5.5
Jay Cutler YPA 7.3

And Cutler was actually a rookie that year. Croyle was a 2nd year player. They are not even close.

Consider the talent around them.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 07:17 AM
Consider the talent around them.

NO NO NO we have been told that does not matter.....

Von Dumbass
08-21-2008, 07:18 AM
Pre Season rating?


Jay Cutler Pre Season stats
QB Rating 110.7
Comp % 24/30 80.%
Yards 237
YPA 7.9
TD's 1 passing 1 rushing
Int's 0

Brodie Croyle Pre Season stats
QB Rating 70.9
Comp% 13/23 56.5%
Yards 120
YPA 5.2
TD 0
INT 0

Von Dumbass
08-21-2008, 07:22 AM
Consider the talent around them.

Brodie has weapons just not a good O-line. Bowe, Tony G, and LJ are great weapons. I just don't think that Brodie is that good. A 3rd round pick who just doesnt look like an NFL QB. Brodie is 6'2 203 pounds and Cutler is 6'3 230 Pounds. He just isn't that good.

He is like a JP Losman, Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton, type. You guys need another QB.

Von Dumbass
08-21-2008, 07:24 AM
Brodie and Cutler came to the NFL the same year. Cutler is what a franchise QB looks like, Croyle just doesn't. I think you expect to much out of your 3rd round pick.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 07:25 AM
Brodie has weapons just not a good O-line. Bowe, Tony G, and LJ are great weapons. I just don't think that Brodie is that good. A 3rd round pick who just doesnt look like an NFL QB. Brodie is 6'2 203 pounds and Cutler is 6'3 230 Pounds. He just isn't that good.

He is like a JP Losman, Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton, type. You guys need another QB.

Yea O line is not a big deal. LJ was out for every game he started. And ya your right Bowe as a rook was a nice weapon and Tony G staying in to block was really helpfull to him.
That one inch and 27lbs makes that much of a difference huh?
I dont think so.

Mecca
08-21-2008, 07:25 AM
JP Losman is the comparison I usually use for him....

And cmon now Denver isn't exactly the beacon of offensive talent either.

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 07:27 AM
JP Losman is the comparison I usually use for him....

And cmon now Denver isn't exactly the beacon of offensive talent either.

The 2006 Broncos were 8th in the league in rushing and gave up only 31 sacks.

How does that compare in ANY WAY to the shitfest Brodie had to slog through last year?

Von Dumbass
08-21-2008, 07:30 AM
Yea O line is not a big deal. LJ was out for every game he started. And ya your right Bowe as a rook was a nice weapon and Tony G staying in to block was really helpfull to him.
That one inch and 27lbs makes that much of a difference huh?
I dont think so.

Cutler was at Croyles weight by the end of last year with diabetes.. without Tom Nalen, Matt Lepsis, and Ben Hamilton his 3 best O-lineman and still lit you up for a 141 QB Rating and 4 touchdown passes. Cutler is more accurate, has a stronger arm, is faster... There was a reason Cutler was a 1st round pick and Croyle was a 3rd round pick and it isnt just the 27 pounds... Its talent.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 07:37 AM
Cutler was at Croyles weight by the end of last year with diabetes.. without Tom Nalen, Matt Lepsis, and Ben Hamilton his 3 best O-lineman and still lit you up for a 141 QB Rating and 4 touchdown passes. Cutler is more accurate, has a stronger arm, is faster... There was a reason Cutler was a 1st round pick and Croyle was a 3rd round pick and it isnt just the 27 pounds... Its talent.

Is Cutlers OC now or ever have been mentally retarded?
I am interested to see how long it goes for Cutler. I am not going to dog him. I think he has done well. I hate the donks but can admit that.
I just wonder if Cutler will end up like Jeff George or Leftwich or Culpepper. When his days playing QB are over what part of the 75% of QBs that are drafted in the 1st and dont go to the SB will he most resemble?

rad
08-21-2008, 09:00 AM
Leave to you assholes to take a thread about defense and turn it into a Brodie bashing fest.


Mecca, you are getting tired. Give us a break already.

dirk digler
08-21-2008, 09:18 AM
#1 pick, 3rd round pick........also Eli Manning has been pretty underwhelming. It's like people forget that.

Croyle has this year, I like how when I say something that is glossed over he has this season. It's put up or shutup time for him simple as that.

I understand the point you are coming from but it takes a little longer than 22 starts to see how good a QB is going to be.

I kind of compare Croyle to Drew Brees. The first 3 years he stunk it up in SD despite having alot of talent around him and he also got benched several times. Year 4 he really caught on and now is an excellent QB.

The Bad Guy
08-21-2008, 11:21 AM
So other fans are ignorant because they don't know anything about Brodie Croyle?

You are such an idiot homer.

When Brodie Croyle does something meaningful in a game, then you can say fans are ignorant.

But when the guy sucks it up for 6 games, don't expect every NFL fan to have a retarded hard-on for a guy who will likely never cut it as a starting QB.

el borracho
08-21-2008, 12:58 PM
“It’s coming, though,” he said. “I’ve got to be patient with it. I can’t get frustrated, even though I do sometimes. It’s a lot different. I’m having to focus a lot on the pass. I love playing the run, but that can’t be my focus anymore."


Hali's focus was the run?! That was a weakness that other teams exploited.

Buehler445
08-21-2008, 01:15 PM
“It’s coming, though,” he said. “I’ve got to be patient with it. I can’t get frustrated, even though I do sometimes. It’s a lot different. I’m having to focus a lot on the pass. I love playing the run, but that can’t be my focus anymore."


Hali's focus was the run?! That was a weakness that other teams exploited.

I thought that very same thing. Everytime Hali has a quote, I usually say, "WTF?"

Pablo
08-21-2008, 01:27 PM
Cutler was at Croyles weight by the end of last year with diabetes.. without Tom Nalen, Matt Lepsis, and Ben Hamilton his 3 best O-lineman and still lit you up for a 141 QB Rating and 4 touchdown passes. Cutler is more accurate, has a stronger arm, is faster... There was a reason Cutler was a 1st round pick and Croyle was a 3rd round pick and it isnt just the 27 pounds... Its talent.While you may make some good points here, the stronger arm factor is one you really can't bring up...or faster...

Neither one is exactly speedy...but they're f*cking QB's for f*cks sake. Faster?? Who cares.

SNR
08-21-2008, 01:57 PM
Hali was projected as an instant effective NFL player, but didn't have much in the way of potential. Anyone else getting that feeling now? That if perhaps Turk McBride really is getting better by leaps and bounds that he'll eventually replace Hali at RDE?

blueballs
08-21-2008, 07:03 PM
[url]

“When you trade away a very good player, you never look at it as, ‘Well, we’ve got to find somebody to replace him,’ ” coach Herm Edwards said. “You’re not going to replace the guy. You have to figure out, ‘OK, we got rid of this guy, so what are we going to do now?’ You don’t put the pressure on another player. You don’t put it on Tamba. You don’t put it on (left end Turk McBride).
.

don't leave us to our own imaginations here
did he scratch his head because he forget his name
did he call him the N word -throw us a bone

Ari Chi3fs
08-21-2008, 09:06 PM
Don't worry... the Chiefs will see MANY Sacks this year.

http://frankthetank.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/sports-fan-paper-bag-head.jpg

TRR
08-21-2008, 09:16 PM
Why are we comparing Croyle to Cutler? Croyle will have his success in time. But it's going to take just that...time.

Cutler isn't anything to measure up to anyways...His best season came last year where he led his team to a 7-9 record, and turned the ball over 18 times compared to 20 TD's. He's got a ways to go to become an above average NFL QB as well...

LiL stumppy
08-21-2008, 09:54 PM
That's pretty much reality, the odds are Croyle isn't the guy. Personally I'll be surprised if he doesn't get injured.

I'm looking at this as it would be a nice surprise if he turned out to be the guy but I'm going to plan that he isn't.

Why should I have any reason to think he's the guy? If a QB on any team that wasn't ours had done exactly what he had done we'd all laugh that he was starting. If this was the Broncos we'd all be laughing at them. Just try to look at it from a different perspective sometime.

Yea your right, everyone laughs at QB's who were drafted in the 3rd round and have a chance to start for a football team. How ridiculous is that :rolleyes: