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View Full Version : Chiefs Bob gretz: A Ball-Handler's Offense


Smed1065
08-21-2008, 08:43 PM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/08/20/a_ballhandlers_offense/

It happened on consecutive plays during the Chiefs Tuesday practice at the Truman Sports Complex.

The No. 1 offense was on the field against the No. 1 defense. Brodie Croyle took the snap, faked a handoff and bootlegged to the left. Screaming in from the right side of the defense, Tamba Hali ran right past Croyle because he thought the running back had the ball. Croyle connected on a pass to wide receiver Jeff Webb.

On the next play, Croyle again faked a handoff and then ran a bootleg to his right. Screaming in from the defense’s left side Turk McBride grabbed the running back and missed Croyle who sneaked past him with the ball. Croyle completed the pass to wide receiver Dwayne Bowe.

There are a lot of things required of any quarterback that runs an NFL offense. He must be able to process information quickly. He must have quick feet to get back in the pocket and strong legs to help him throw the ball. The good quarterbacks all have a consistent throwing motion, but they are able to adjust if needed, especially under pressure.

The Chiefs want all that from their quarterbacks. But they ask for something more, something that’s becoming a bit of a lost art among NFL quarterbacks. They must be ball handlers, able to carry out convincing fakes that momentarily confuse or deceive the defense. It’s a slight of hand style of playing the position, something that’s been used by some of the greatest quarterbacks in the game, guys like Dawson, Montana and these days Peyton Manning.

It’s like a basketball point guard who can dribble between his legs, or throw a pass behind his back and completely fake out a defender by looking one way, while throwing the ball in the opposite direction.

It’s sleight of hand.

“The idea is to get the defense on its heels for a second,” said Chiefs quarterbacks coach Dick Curl. “Sometimes that’s enough to get the ball out of the quarterback’s hands for a pass, or gives the line another second to block for the run.”

The premise is to get the defense headed in one direction, with the ultimate destination of the play going the opposite way. Already in two pre-season games the Chiefs have shown many plays where the quarterback fakes the handoff to the running back going right, while he bootlegs out of the pocket to the left. Or vice-a-versa.

The previous offensive scheme the Chiefs ran did that through a large number of plays in the game plan, and constant motion and shifting. Chan Gailey’s offense scheme has far fewer plays and relies on precise execution of those plays to gain yardage.

That includes plenty of fakes that bring the lost art of quarterback ball handling into the equation. They frequently run a play where the quarterback fakes a belly handoff to the running back, then fakes a pitch out to the same back and then rolls to his left or right.

“It’s a big part of our offense,” said Croyle. “There are a lot of things that are asked of us that we didn’t do in the last couple years. Our fakes then were just token fakes; they weren’t intended to try to deceive people. That’s not the case now. That’s why we run so many nakeds and bootlegs after every play. It can’t be a lost art with us.”

Croyle did some of the same ball handling at the University of Alabama under Mike Shula, who at one time coached with Gailey. He said no matter the level of football, the ability of a fake to deceive a defense depends not just on the quarterback.

“What we are doing requires the offensive line, the running backs, everyone has to make it look like something it’s not,” said Croyle. “There are probably one or two guys on the defense that read us (the quarterback) for keys. The others are reading the guards, or tackles, or the back. To make it work takes 11 guys doing the same thing.”

A magician working on the stage deceives his audience at times with flourishes of activity that take attention away from what he’s really doing. That’s not what the quarterback does in this offense. In fact, it’s just the opposite.

“We want them to see the ball,” Croyle said. “We aren’t trying to hide it. We try to do everything the exact way every time. We don’t want there to be a difference they can detect. That’s one thing I watch on film. When I do hand offs or when I do a naked, I want to do them the same way.

“If you oversell it, they are going to know something’s up and if you undersell it, they are going to know. You try to always make it look the same.”


Sorry if a repost but I did search all Bob Gretz and Chiefs articles.

Hard to believe this one has not been posted.

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 08:44 PM
OK, make testicle jokes.

L.A. Chieffan
08-21-2008, 08:46 PM
I guess we should be mad that we still can't defend the boot.

Buehler445
08-21-2008, 08:58 PM
This doesn't make me impressed with Croyle. It makes me very UNIMPRESSED with the D.

FAX
08-21-2008, 09:09 PM
I thought the term, "vice-a-versa" was actually "vice versa". No?

Anyhow, the offense should be interesting to watch from this perspective and Gretz is right about one thing, Lenny was extremely good at the fake and play action. But, the best I think I've ever seen at that particular skill was DeBerg.

FAX

HolyHandgernade
08-21-2008, 09:17 PM
I remember Steve DeBerg had this sleight-of-hand thing down to an art like no other. It seemed that at least once every week he had a fake that the cameraman bought as well.

-HH

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/286190.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0EDA2094E96A483126E284831B75F48EF45

blueballs
08-21-2008, 09:27 PM
The title screams
autobiography

beach tribe
08-21-2008, 09:32 PM
Bono 76 yrd TD. Now that's slight of hand.

Count Alex's Losses
08-21-2008, 09:33 PM
SLEIGHT.

Jesus titty****ing Christ. You and Bob.

J Diddy
08-21-2008, 10:09 PM
I guess we should be mad that we still can't defend the boot.

exactly what I was thinking
thinks for tipping everyone off Gretz, frigging dickhole

KCJohnny
08-21-2008, 10:33 PM
Its a shame so many good threads get ruined by Clayton's preoccupation with Testicles and blasphemy.

I was already to discuss the new O. Now I feel like I need a shower.

J Diddy
08-21-2008, 10:34 PM
Its a shame so many good threads get ruined by Clayton's preoccupation with Testicles and blasphemy.

I was already to discuss the new O. Now I feel like I need a shower.


speaking of ball handler

Deberg_1990
08-21-2008, 10:37 PM
I remember Steve DeBerg had this sleight-of-hand thing down to an art like no other. It seemed that at least once every week he had a fake that the cameraman bought as well.




Deberg was great with that play action stuff. Someone needs to post some of those old clips from games where the cameraman got faked out.

KCJohnny
08-21-2008, 10:41 PM
Deberg was great with that play action stuff. Someone needs to post some of those old clips from games where the cameraman got faked out.

I would never have guessed you a DeBerg fan...

DeBerg was one of the few QBs that coaches would let fake with the football in his hand and actually appear to plant it in the RB's grip.

I think what's really behind all this is the 78 points Denver scored on us last year. Somebody decided that that scheme seems to work, at least against us.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 10:44 PM
Brodie is an injury prone lame ass 3rd round pick that is only faking out his coaches and a piss poor defensive line.

RibKing67
08-21-2008, 10:45 PM
Brodie is an injury prone lame ass 3rd round pick that is only faking out his coaches and a piss poor defensive line.

Just trying to fit in. ROFL

KCJohnny
08-21-2008, 10:49 PM
Just trying to fit in. ROFL

Congrats!

milkman
08-21-2008, 10:57 PM
I think what's really behind all this is the 78 points Denver scored on us last year. Somebody decided that that scheme seems to work, at least against us.

Yeah, I guess Chan Gaily's resume, and the fact that he's made guys like Kordell Stewat and and Jay Fiedler almost look like credible NFL QBs by designing schemes that maximized their strengths and minimized their weakness had nothing to do with it.

FAX
08-22-2008, 12:42 AM
I used to love watching DeBerg run the fake. May have been the best ever. Plus, he always struck me as a guy who loved the game. Didn't he play with a finger bone sticking out of his hand for a while? You have to respect that.

FAX

SNR
08-22-2008, 12:47 AM
Yeah, I guess Chan Gaily's resume, and the fact that he's made guys like Kordell Stewat and and Jay Fiedler almost look like credible NFL QBs by designing schemes that maximized their strengths and minimized their weakness had nothing to do with it.So please tell me what's wrong with this? If it makes Croyle effective, all we gotta do is hope that Chan doesn't die and we're golden!

FAX
08-22-2008, 12:49 AM
Yeah, I guess Chan Gaily's resume, and the fact that he's made guys like Kordell Stewat and and Jay Fiedler almost look like credible NFL QBs by designing schemes that maximized their strengths and minimized their weakness had nothing to do with it.

You know, after only two pre-season games, the contrast between the mysterious and inscrutable Chan and the predictable and repetitive Solari is glaring, Mr. milkman. A bona fide, legitimate offensive coordinator can make all the difference in the world. Particularly when you're talking about an offense that's comprised of a lot of inexperienced players. Hopefully, we will see new clay being molded by the hands of a master. As far as this season is concerned, it's one of the few areas that sponsors my hope and interest.

FAX

J Diddy
08-22-2008, 12:50 AM
Brodie is an injury prone lame ass 3rd round pick that is only faking out his coaches and a piss poor defensive line.


thanks for that

J Diddy
08-22-2008, 12:52 AM
I used to love watching DeBerg run the fake. May have been the best ever. Plus, he always struck me as a guy who loved the game. Didn't he play with a finger bone sticking out of his hand for a while? You have to respect that.

FAX

the fact that his old ass was atlanta's backup in the superbowl against denver spoke volumes to me

Tribal Warfare
08-22-2008, 12:56 AM
Bill Walsh always said that to be a great QB he would have to be the equivalent of a NBA point guard. The skill set would include Quick, mobile, and the ability to make quick decisions in a moments notice efficiently.

FAX
08-22-2008, 12:59 AM
I guess Montana had one out of three. I never considered him as particularly "mobile". I also never thought of him as "quick". Unless Walsh meant the QB's release. Montana could get rid of the ball in a hurry when he wanted to.

He had some weapons to work with, though. That RB they featured back in those days had spidey hands.

FAX

Tribal Warfare
08-22-2008, 01:03 AM
I guess Montana had one out of three. I never considered him as particularly "mobile". I also never thought of him as "quick".
FAX



Dude, when Montana came out of college he was one athletic MOFO ( he jumped 6'9" in the high jump and had a basketball scholarship offer from North Carolina State as a point guard.) It was when he hurt his back when he slowed down

FAX
08-22-2008, 01:13 AM
Dude, when Montana came out of college he was one athletic MOFO ( he jumped 6'9" in the high jump and had a basketball scholarship from North Carolina as a point guard.) It was when he hurt his back when he slowed down

Really. I had no idea. I remember him as being a pocket passer with very little mobility. I 'spose that shows what I knows about Joes.

FAX

JuicesFlowing
08-22-2008, 01:26 AM
I remember Steve DeBerg had this sleight-of-hand thing down to an art like no other. It seemed that at least once every week he had a fake that the cameraman bought as well.

-HH

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/286190.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0EDA2094E96A483126E284831B75F48EF45

AH yes, I remember those days ...

Rain Man
08-22-2008, 09:04 PM
Dude, when Montana came out of college he was one athletic MOFO ( he jumped 6'9" in the high jump and had a basketball scholarship offer from North Carolina State as a point guard.) It was when he hurt his back when he slowed down

Seriously? 6'9"? That's amazing.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2008, 09:23 PM
I used to love watching DeBerg run the fake. May have been the best ever. Plus, he always struck me as a guy who loved the game. Didn't he play with a finger bone sticking out of his hand for a while? You have to respect that.

FAX

yeah the cast was horribly big. the guy couldnt even bend his pinky finger and STILL played well for us. MUCH RESPECT

Molitoth
08-22-2008, 10:57 PM
Deberg frikin ruled.

FAX
08-22-2008, 11:00 PM
Seriously? 6'9"? That's amazing.

I've decided to task my crack squad of spider monkeys to research this issue. I never thought of Montana as being all that athletic. I shall report back once the monkeys have completed their business ... and finished the research, too.

FAX

chiefs1111
08-22-2008, 11:08 PM
Deberg frikin ruled.

Yeah i really liked watching him play. I wonder if we what hes been up to. Maybe the Chiefs can give him a call.... I mean sure he's old but what the hell...

Smed1065
08-22-2008, 11:09 PM
I've decided to task my crack squad of spider monkeys to research this issue. I never thought of Montana as being all that athletic. I shall report back once the monkeys have completed their business ... and finished the research, too.

FAX

Copy cat!

You live in dungver too?

DJJasonp
08-22-2008, 11:57 PM
I liked how every 5 or 6 games, Marty would let Deberg start the game with the first play being a play-action 80 yd pass (Rob Thomas??? J.J. Birden??).

If I recall correctly, in 1990 Deberg had the longest TD pass of the year????

Bob Dole
08-23-2008, 04:51 AM
But, the best I think I've ever seen at that particular skill was DeBerg.

FAX

Bob Dole is pleased that he's not the only reader who immediately thought of Steve DeBerg, Mr. FAX.

Bob Dole
08-23-2008, 04:57 AM
Yeah i really liked watching him play. I wonder if we what hes been up to. Maybe the Chiefs can give him a call.... I mean sure he's old but what the hell...

www.quickreleaseacademy.com

kpic
08-23-2008, 07:03 AM
www.quickreleaseacademy.com

Maybe we should all chip in a couple of bucks and send it to Brodie :shrug:

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-23-2008, 09:32 AM
Yeah i really liked watching him play. I wonder if we what hes been up to. Maybe the Chiefs can give him a call.... I mean sure he's old but what the hell...

It couldn't hurt to bring him in for a look :whackit:

milkman
08-23-2008, 09:44 AM
So please tell me what's wrong with this? If it makes Croyle effective, all we gotta do is hope that Chan doesn't die and we're golden!

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

I was responding to another in a long line of dumbass posts from KCJohnny.

There's nothing wrong with that, as far as I know.

KCJohnny
08-23-2008, 09:50 AM
I'm not sure what you're saying here.

I was responding to another in a long line of dumbass posts from KCJohnny.

There's nothing wrong with that, as far as I know.

I've obviously got you whipped, Milk Man.

milkman
08-23-2008, 11:27 AM
I've obviously got you whipped, Milk Man.

I'd ask you to explain what you think you're trying to say here, but I know your dumb ass would only say some more stupid shit that makes no sense.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 12:07 PM
People like Johnny are why Carl Peterson still has a job.

Deberg_1990
08-23-2008, 12:20 PM
People like Johnny are why Carl Peterson still has a job.

Yea, i would have to agree. Jugding by alot of the comments on this board, alot of guys think its still 1993.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 12:22 PM
Yea, i would have to agree. Jugding by alot of the comments on this board, alot of guys think its still 1993.

I'd like to say I'm glad it's not I was all of 13 back then.

Chief Henry
08-23-2008, 12:43 PM
I guess we should be mad that we still can't defend the boot.

My thoughts exactly.

beach tribe
08-23-2008, 01:03 PM
I liked how every 5 or 6 games, Marty would let Deberg start the game with the first play being a play-action 80 yd pass (Rob Thomas??? J.J. Birden??).

If I recall correctly, in 1990 Deberg had the longest TD pass of the year????

Hell, I still remember Bono to Lachapelle. I think it was against ...GB maybe? can't remember.