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View Full Version : Elections McCain flip-flops, agayn. This time it's abortion.


Direckshun
08-22-2008, 08:11 PM
After the stink conservatives have made over public financing and FISA, I expect to see nothing more than complete outrage.

Or am I just exaggerating my expectations (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/expectations.html)? Who knows.

More or less, I expect more of pat's talk about "evolving positions."

C'mon folks. You either care about flip-flopping or you don't.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/mccain-backs-aw.html

McCain Backs Away from Abortion Pledge

August 20, 2008 8:46 PM

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Rigel Anderson Report: John McCain's campaign signaled on Wednesday that the Arizona senator is backing away from his previously stated goal of changing the GOP’s platform on abortion.

"There's a process in place for the delegates to work on the platform and we are going to let that process work itself out," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers told ABC News.

McCain’s plan to take a hands-off approach with the abortion platform stands in stark contrast with the position he took during his first presidential run.

Back in 2000, McCain clashed with then-Gov. George W. Bush over his unwillingness to change platform language that called for a human life amendment banning all abortions.

McCain implored Bush to join him in wanting to add exceptions for rape, incest, and danger to the life of the mother.

Watch the McCain-Bush sparring here.

McCain's desire to change the platform did not end in 2000.

During an April 14, 2007 media availability which followed the Iowa GOP's Lincoln Day Dinner in Des Moines, McCain reaffirmed his support for changing the platform.

But now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, the McCain camp is making it clear that he has no plans to push for changes to the platform.

McCain's decision to leave the platform untouched follows a warning from a prominent social conservative.

"If he were to change the party platform," to account for exceptions such as rape, incest or risk to the mother's life, "I think that would be political suicide," Tony Perkins, the president of the conservative Family Research Council, told ABC News in May. "I think he would be aborting his own campaign because that is such a critical issue to so many Republican voters and the Republican brand is already in trouble."

While leaving the platform untouched would please many in the GOP's socially conservative base, it could alienate some of the more moderate voters that McCain is hoping to attract.

"If he doesn't change the platform, then he's being the same kind of hypocrite that he accused Bush of being in 2000," Jennifer Blei Stockman, the co-chairwoman of Republican Majority for Choice, told ABC News in May.

"Many people think of him as a moderate," she added. "But when it comes out that he doesn't want to change this extreme, right-wing Republican platform, the word 'moderate' is going to disappear from any description of McCain."

Pitt Gorilla
08-22-2008, 08:48 PM
Oh, yeah, that is "shocking."

Mr. Kotter
08-22-2008, 10:14 PM
Do you only care about McCain's flip-flops, and being a partisan hypocrite, like say......recxjake, which would make you a partisan DEMOCRATIC hypocrite (as opposed to a partisan REPUBLICAN hypocrite,) or....have you, in my near absence from DC.....also chastised Obama for his numerous flip-flops??? Do you have some links to threads, or should I trust that in a "search" I'll find such evidence?

:hmmm:

Seriously; and, please, don't pretend that both candidates have not engaged in this sort of pandering and "flip-flopping"....because it would only, further, expose your partisan motivation, bias, and hypocrisy. Or perhaps it's selective attention or ignorance, for which we should place the blame for that?

FWIW, I'm only holding you to the same standard that PittGorilla and IrishJayhawk wanna seem to hold me to.....

:shrug:

irishjayhawk
08-22-2008, 10:16 PM
Do you only care about McCain's flip-flops, and be a partisan hypocrite, like say......recxjake, which would make you a partisan DEMOCRATIC hypocrite (as opposed to a partisan REPUBLICAN hypocrite,) or....have you, in my near absence from DC.....also chastised Obama for his numerous flip-flops??? Do you have some links to threads, or should I trust that in a "search" I'll find such evidence?

:hmmm:

Seriously; and, please, don't pretend that both candidates have not engaged in this sort of pandering and "flip-flopping"....because it would only, further, expose your partisan motivation, bias, and hypocrisy. Or perhaps it's selective attention or ignorance, for which we should place the blame for that?

FWIW, I'm only holding you to the same standard that PittGorilla and IrishJayhawk wanna seem to hold me to.....

:shrug:

I've seen him hold Obama to more of an even hand than I have seen you hold McCain. FWIW :shrug:

Mr. Kotter
08-22-2008, 10:18 PM
I've seen him hold Obama to more of an even hand than I have seen you hold McCain. FWIW :shrug:

Eh, at the moment....I'm inclined to vote for Obama. How much more even of a hand can I hold McCain to?

:shrug:

irishjayhawk
08-22-2008, 10:20 PM
Eh, at the moment....I'm inclined to vote for Obama. How much more even of a hand can I hold McCain to?

:shrug:

Is your vote because you are picking the lesser of two evils?

Mr. Kotter
08-22-2008, 10:25 PM
Is your vote because you are picking the lesser of two evils?


Pretty much. Though I do like Barack's enthusiasm, vision, and potential for leadership.....it's just his "government solution" to every problem approach that concerns me. Bottom-line is McCain is, seemingly, less appealing.

:shrug:



"Same as it ever was...."

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irishjayhawk
08-22-2008, 10:27 PM
Pretty much. Though I do like Barack's enthusiasm, vision, and potential for leadership.....it's just his "government solution" to every problem approach that concerns me. Bottom-line is McCain is, seemingly, even less appealing.

:shrug:



"Same as it ever was...."

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Well, then that's my point. If it's the lesser of two evils, why do I always consistently see you poke at Obama and almost never (I'd actually like to see an example.) poke at McCain.

Obviously, if McCain is the worse of the two evils, you would want to highlight at least SOME of his gaffes or missteps.

Taco John
08-22-2008, 10:28 PM
Oh damn. Where's my hip waders. Kotter is waxing political.

Smed1065
08-22-2008, 10:30 PM
So I am.

I mean the record speaks for itself. Unless you are a die hard one way or the other. I would rather take the least of the 2 evils than another 8 years that I experienced since 2000.

Mr. Kotter
08-22-2008, 10:33 PM
Well, then that's my point. If it's the lesser of two evils, why do I always consistently see you poke at Obama and almost never (I'd actually like to see an example.) poke at McCain.

Obviously, if McCain is the worse of the two evils, you would want to highlight at least SOME of his gaffes or missteps.


Because I'm voting for Obama, presently, he's the one I'm scrutinizing most....at the moment, anyway.

:shrug:

Direckshun
08-23-2008, 02:28 AM
Do you only care about McCain's flip-flops, and being a partisan hypocrite, like say......recxjake, which would make you a partisan DEMOCRATIC hypocrite (as opposed to a partisan REPUBLICAN hypocrite,) or....have you, in my near absence from DC.....also chastised Obama for his numerous flip-flops??? Do you have some links to threads, or should I trust that in a "search" I'll find such evidence?

:hmmm:

Seriously; and, please, don't pretend that both candidates have not engaged in this sort of pandering and "flip-flopping"....because it would only, further, expose your partisan motivation, bias, and hypocrisy. Or perhaps it's selective attention or ignorance, for which we should place the blame for that?

FWIW, I'm only holding you to the same standard that PittGorilla and IrishJayhawk wanna seem to hold me to.....

:shrug:
I think flip-flopping is the most overrated issue of the 21st century. I believe it is largely contrived to divide and spur the population into debate about usually insignicant issues compared to the ones really boiling under this country's skin. Nothing good has ever come out of a candidate making this charge.

I bring up McCain's flip-flops as often as I can to remind the flip-flop-obsessed on the Right that it's a non-issue.

patteeu
08-23-2008, 08:50 AM
So I am.

I mean the record speaks for itself. Unless you are a die hard one way or the other. I would rather take the least of the 2 evils than another 8 years that I experienced since 2000.

Need a shoulder to cry on? It sounds like George W. Bush has really been tough on you. Let me guess. He's put you on a nofly list? He detained your father and locked him up at Gitmo? He arranged for your job to be given to some undeserving, dirty, little foreigner? Share your pain.

patteeu
08-23-2008, 08:57 AM
I think flip-flopping is the most overrated issue of the 21st century. I believe it is largely contrived to divide and spur the population into debate about usually insignicant issues compared to the ones really boiling under this country's skin. Nothing good has ever come out of a candidate making this charge.

I bring up McCain's flip-flops as often as I can to remind the flip-flop-obsessed on the Right that it's a non-issue.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. John McCain doesn't really care all that much about the abortion issue and if he's elected, very little will change one way or the other. It doesn't matter whether the party platform includes exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother or not because it will have zero impact on the future of abortion during a McCain administration.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-23-2008, 09:02 AM
Need a shoulder to cry on? It sounds like George W. Bush has really been tough on you. Let me guess. He's put you on a nofly list? He detained your father and locked him up at Gitmo? He arranged for your job to be given to some undeserving, dirty, little foreigner? Share your pain.

Well lets see Oil has tripled in price, food has nearly tripled in price, were mired down in a war that seemingly has no meaning, we tried to start WW3 with Russia, to our pres the constitution is just a GD piece of paper, Oh and our dollar is worth Jack i guess i want another 8 years of that.

ROYC75
08-23-2008, 02:43 PM
Is your vote because you are picking the lesser of two evils?


Can't be, if it were he would vote for McCain .

ROYC75
08-23-2008, 02:51 PM
Well lets see Oil has tripled in price, food has nearly tripled in price, were mired down in a war that seemingly has no meaning, we tried to start WW3 with Russia, to our pres the constitution is just a GD piece of paper, Oh and our dollar is worth Jack i guess i want another 8 years of that.


Good Griefs, either you are misinformed or just stupid on the issues. How the hell have we tried to start WW III with Russia ? Why is it all Bush's fault on oil when America didn't prepare for the increase usage and the ME oil markets getting more competitive. Food prices increased because of the oil market and the oil futures. FTR, it would have mattered if Hilary, Bill Clinton was still POTUS, or an Al Gore or any person, period. We didn't allow ourselves the chance to keep oil down.

You can blame all presidents and every former and present member of Congress for this problem.

Direckshun
08-23-2008, 04:26 PM
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. John McCain doesn't really care all that much about the abortion issue and if he's elected, very little will change one way or the other. It doesn't matter whether the party platform includes exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother or not because it will have zero impact on the future of abortion during a McCain administration.
This really does nothing to rebut the notion that McCain has reversed himself here.

How can I trust anything he says?

patteeu
08-24-2008, 08:12 AM
This really does nothing to rebut the notion that McCain has reversed himself here.

How can I trust anything he says?

I don't know. I don't think you should vote for him if that change in the Republican platform was important to you because it's obviously not one of the top priorities for McCain.

HonestChieffan
08-24-2008, 08:23 AM
Obots need to think a little more...issues like abortion are killers for Obama. He is way off track ansd so far from mainstream even pro chice moderates run away.

Direckshun
08-24-2008, 10:34 AM
I don't know. I don't think you should vote for him if that change in the Republican platform was important to you because it's obviously not one of the top priorities for McCain.
Guy was for the pledge, now he's against it, for no apparent reason.

VAChief
08-24-2008, 10:43 AM
Obots need to think a little more...issues like abortion are killers for Obama. He is way off track ansd so far from mainstream even pro chice moderates run away.

Issues like abortion are only killers for the single issue minded voters who think it matters who is POTUS. I consider myself a moderate and would have considered McCain (the earlier version) seriously this year. He has in my opinion made a huge mistake to align himself so closely with the buffoon we have had for the last 8 years.

dirk digler
08-24-2008, 10:56 AM
Need a shoulder to cry on? It sounds like George W. Bush has really been tough on you. Let me guess. He's put you on a nofly list?

Actually he did and it sucks. :harumph:

dirk digler
08-24-2008, 10:57 AM
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. John McCain doesn't really care all that much about the abortion issue and if he's elected, very little will change one way or the other. It doesn't matter whether the party platform includes exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother or not because it will have zero impact on the future of abortion during a McCain administration.

I disagree because 2-3 SC justices are going to retire fairly quickly which could have huge impact on Roe v Wade.

VAChief
08-24-2008, 11:10 AM
I disagree because 2-3 SC justices are going to retire fairly quickly which could have huge impact on Roe v Wade.

Personally I am so tired of this issue I wouldn't care if it was overturned.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 11:11 AM
Personally I am so tired of this issue I wouldn't care if it was overturned.

That is not true. I call :bullshit:

VAChief
08-24-2008, 11:21 AM
That is not true. I call :bullshit:

Why? I'm sick of this one issue bs. The reality is there were abortions before Roe v Wade, and there will be afterwards. It just means those of privilege will have to risk the back alley route.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 12:34 PM
Why? I'm sick of this one issue bs. The reality is there were abortions before Roe v Wade, and there will be afterwards. It just means those of privilege will have to risk the back alley route.

Are you prepared to incarcerate people who get caught?

VAChief
08-24-2008, 01:00 PM
Are you prepared to incarcerate people who get caught?

I understand it would be idiotic! I said I was tired of hearing about it as "the" issue. Will it affect the amount of unwanted pregnancies? No, of course not.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 01:16 PM
I understand it would be idiotic! I said I was tired of hearing about it as "the" issue. Will it affect the amount of unwanted pregnancies? No, of course not.

Well, I'm tired of lots of things being "the" issue. Stem Cell research, for example. Admittedly, it has died down recently for some reason.

As much as I agree it shouldn't the THE issue, we cannot let our defenses down amidst the religious right and their question to brand everyone in the light of Jesus.

patteeu
08-24-2008, 01:53 PM
Guy was for the pledge, now he's against it, for no apparent reason.

OK :shrug:

patteeu
08-24-2008, 01:54 PM
Personally I am so tired of this issue I wouldn't care if it was overturned.

Same here.

I understand it would be idiotic! I said I was tired of hearing about it as "the" issue. Will it affect the amount of unwanted pregnancies? No, of course not.

It might help our birth rate though.