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View Full Version : Elections McCain Campaign: "Biden pick shows lack of confidence"


jAZ
08-23-2008, 11:44 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/story/ap/20080823/ap_on_el_ge/veepstakes_analysis

One of (AP's Washington Bureau Chief Ron) Fournier's job options: McCain (Campaign)
By MICHAEL CALDERONE | 7/29/08 7:27 PM EST

Before Ron Fournier returned to The Associated Press (to become the Washington Bereau Chief in charge of all 2008 election coverage) ... the McCain team approached Fournier about joining the fledgling operation, according to a source with knowledge of the talks. In the months that followed, said a source, Fournier spoke about the job possibility with members of McCain’s inner circle, including political aides Mark Salter, John Weaver and Rick Davis.

Salter, who remains a top McCain adviser, said in an e-mail to Politico that Fournier was considered for “a senior advisory role” in communications.

“He did us the courtesy of considering the offer before politely declining it,” Salter said. [...]

In a May 2008 shake-up, Fournier was named Washington bureau chief, a post from which he oversees daily campaign coverage and is entrusted to analyze returns and make the final election-night call on the presidential election in November. [...]

Even before Fournier was named bureau chief, some liberal critics asserted that the AP reporter seemed too cozy with McCain.

In April, Fournier and AP reporter Liz Sidoti interviewed McCain in front of a packed audience during the news organization’s annual meeting, during which they took heat from liberal bloggers for bringing the senator his favorite kind of Dunkin’ Donuts (with sprinkles).

“There's something about this that undermines the notion of objective and detached journalism,” Steven Benen wrote on Salon the following day.

Taking over the bureau chief position a few weeks later, Fournier quickly pushed changes based around his idea of “accountability journalism,” in which reporters are encouraged to adapt a more blunt, interpretive style as a way of “cutting through the clutter,” as he recently told Politico.

http://news.yahoo.com/story/ap/20080823/ap_on_el_ge/veepstakes_analysis

Analysis: Biden pick shows lack of confidence

By Ron Fournier, Associated Press Writer – Sat Aug 23, 2:12 am ET

DENVER – The candidate of change went with the status quo. [...]

The picks say something profound about Obama: For all his self-confidence, the 47-year-old Illinois senator worried that he couldn't beat Republican John McCain without help from a seasoned politician willing to attack. The Biden pick is the next logistical step in an Obama campaign that has become more negative — a strategic decision that may be necessary but threatens to run counter to his image.

Democratic strategists, fretting over polls that showed McCain erasing Obama's lead this summer, welcomed the move.

[...]Biden is anything but a change agent, having been in office longer than half of all Americans have been alive. Longer than McCain.

And he talks too much. [...]

And there's the 2007 ABC interview in which Biden said he would stand by an earlier statement that Obama was not ready to serve as president.

It seems Obama is worried that some voters are starting to agree.

RINGLEADER
08-23-2008, 11:50 AM
These two guys really deserve each other...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyEqyYUGk4I

LOL.

I love Joe.

RINGLEADER
08-23-2008, 11:55 AM
This is a classic as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM19YOqs7hU

Direckshun
08-23-2008, 12:23 PM
Great catch, jAZ.

I don't see how Biden is that expedient of a political option for Obama.

I think it was a choice of supreme confidence.

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 12:27 PM
Fournier has taken the AP's journalistic integrity and brutally murdered it with a sledgehammer.

Carlota69
08-23-2008, 12:47 PM
After its all said and done, I think Obama made the right choice. Biden was probably the best pick out there. And God knows Obama needs a pitbull on his side.

Donger
08-23-2008, 12:56 PM
And God knows Obama needs a pitbull on his side.

You think that Biden is going to go after McCain now?

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 01:06 PM
The sound you hear is of plates being thrown in the McCain household (or is that households plural?) when they hear the statements today from three moderate Republican senate colleagues:

Sen. Chuck Hagel: U.S. Senator Chuck Hagel issued the following statement today following Senator Barack Obama's selection of Senator Joe Biden as the presumptive Democratic Vice Presidential nominee: "Joe Biden is the right partner for Barack Obama. His many years of distinguished service to America, his seasoned judgment and his vast experience in foreign policy and national security will match up well with the unique challenges of the 21st Century. An Obama-Biden ticket is a very impressive and strong team. Biden's selection is good news for Obama and America," Hagel said.

Sen. Richard Lugar: Tbilisi, Georgia - U.S. Sen. Dick Lugar made the following statement today en route to Tbilisi. "I congratulate Senator Barack Obama on his selection of my friend, Senator Joe Biden, to be his vice-presidential running mate. I have enjoyed for many years the opportunity to work with Joe Biden to bring strong bipartisan support to United States foreign policy..."

Sen. Arlen Specter: Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter, a Republican who serves on the Judiciary Committee with Biden and often rides Amtrak with him to Washington, also offered praise. "No one on the Democratic side knows more about foreign policy than Sen. Biden," Specter said. "He's been an articulate spokesman on the subject. He also knows about domestic policy. He's been a leader on crime control."

Donger
08-23-2008, 01:09 PM
Man, sounds like Biden should have been the POTUS pick with Barack Hussein as his VPOTUS.

I wonder why that didn't happen.

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 01:13 PM
Man, sounds like Biden should have been the POTUS pick with Barack Hussein as his VPOTUS.

I wonder why that didn't happen.Honestly (which is a waste, given who I'm responding to), Biden's verbosity and bulldog mentality are really better suited for the VP role. I would have been thrilled if he'd had a real shot at the nomination, though I still would have supported Obama thanks to a few policy differences.

Donger
08-23-2008, 01:16 PM
Honestly (which is a waste, given who I'm responding to), Biden's verbosity and bulldog mentality are really better suited for the VP role. I would have been thrilled if he'd had a real shot at the nomination, though I still would have supported Obama thanks to a few policy differences.

Thanks for your answer. As I understand it, McCain and Biden are on record as being pretty friendly. Do you think that he'll only go after McCain's VP pick and not McCain directly?

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 01:26 PM
Thanks for your answer. As I understand it, McCain and Biden are on record as being pretty friendly. Do you think that he'll only go after McCain's VP pick and not McCain directly?He just made a reference to McCain pretending to be a man of the people while owning seven thousand houses, so I doubt it.

Cave Johnson
08-23-2008, 01:34 PM
Thanks for your answer. As I understand it, McCain and Biden are on record as being pretty friendly. Do you think that he'll only go after McCain's VP pick and not McCain directly?

McCain gave into the right wing of the Republican party and the swift boat tactics that he deplored. Direct enough for ya?

Boyceofsummer
08-23-2008, 01:55 PM
Up against Biden during debates the Republican opponent will look and sound a lot like Dan Quail right after Loyd Benston hit him with: “Your no Jack Kennedy.”

Donger
08-23-2008, 01:59 PM
He just made a reference to McCain pretending to be a man of the people while owning seven thousand houses, so I doubt it.

Seven thousand? Is Biden already inserting his foot?

Donger
08-23-2008, 02:01 PM
McCain gave into the right wing of the Republican party and the swift boat tactics that he deplored. Direct enough for ya?

Oh well. So much for civility. Sounds like Barack Hussein got someone to do his dirty work for him.

Messier
08-23-2008, 02:03 PM
Seven thousand? Is Biden already inserting his foot?

No, he said seven.

tiptap
08-23-2008, 02:05 PM
I am so ready. It wouldn't be a campaign for the top if you couldn't sling mud.

Calcountry
08-23-2008, 02:08 PM
After its all said and done, I think Obama made the right choice. Biden was probably the best pick out there. And God knows Obama needs a pitbull on his side.
Big Daddy to appear to stop you from dissing the quality of a Pitbull by comparing it to Biden in 3 2 1.....

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 02:10 PM
Oh well. So much for civility.lol

Calcountry
08-23-2008, 02:10 PM
Man, sounds like Biden should have been the POTUS pick with Barack Hussein as his VPOTUS.

I wonder why that didn't happen.Liberals vote with their feelings, not their head.

BucEyedPea
08-23-2008, 02:11 PM
"No one on the Democratic side knows more about foreign policy than Sen. Biden," Specter said. "He's been an articulate spokesman on the subject. He also knows about domestic policy. He's been a leader on crime control."

Really? Biden certainly believed Iraq had WMD.
What he needs to know more about is his own Constitution: that you don't allow a president to be The Decider in a resolution when congress is the decider for war.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 02:11 PM
Oh well. So much for civility. Sounds like Barack Hussein got someone to do his dirty work for him.

A GOP caricature enters the thread.

Messier
08-23-2008, 02:13 PM
Liberals vote with their feelings, not their head.



The Conservatives vote with their heads? I thought they voted out of fear.

Donger
08-23-2008, 02:14 PM
A GOP caricature enters the thread.

Huh? People on this very thread have been referring to Biden as a "pitbull" and "bulldog."

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 02:14 PM
The Conservatives vote with their heads? I thought they voted out of fear.

Really, the GOP thrives on evoking gut reactions. Americans are almost always more in-line with Democratic policy stances. The GOP wins by getting enough people to ignore policy and to vote out of hate and fear.

BucEyedPea
08-23-2008, 02:15 PM
The Conservatives vote with their heads? I thought they voted out of fear.

Well that is feelings. Both sides vote on feelings.
At least we're not afraid of warm weather though. :p

Donger
08-23-2008, 02:15 PM
The GOP wins by getting enough people to ignore policy and to vote out of hate and fear.

Heh. Barack Hussein himself enters the thread.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 02:17 PM
Huh? People on this very thread have been referring to Biden as a "pitbull" and "bulldog."

How does aggressiveness contradict Obama's campaign? He has never made him out to be passive or someone who won't go on the attack, as long as the attacks are honest and actually relevant to the election. Your stance is just standard GOP bullshit. When you can't actually refute a claim, setup a straw-man and attack that instead.

BucEyedPea
08-23-2008, 02:17 PM
Really, the GOP thrives on evoking gut reactions. Americans are almost always more in-line with Democratic policy stances. The GOP wins by getting enough people to ignore policy and to vote out of hate and fear.

What do you call the left's fear of markets? Marketphobia? Or their hate of capitalism?
What do you call the left's fear of corporations? Corporatphobia?
Warm weather, the rich, homeschoolers, privatization, small govt, fear of not being able to make it in life without the govt?

Both sides have their fears, loves and hates.

Donger
08-23-2008, 02:42 PM
How does aggressiveness contradict Obama's campaign? He has never made him out to be passive or someone who won't go on the attack, as long as the attacks are honest and actually relevant to the election. Your stance is just standard GOP bullshit. When you can't actually refute a claim, setup a straw-man and attack that instead.

The number of homes that McCain owns or doesn't own is relevant to the election? How so?

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 02:56 PM
Really, the GOP thrives on evoking gut reactions. Americans are almost always more in-line with Democratic policy stances. The GOP wins by getting enough people to ignore policy and to vote out of hate and fear.

This, too? I thought the GOP was the pro-cancer and AIDS party?

wazu
08-23-2008, 03:00 PM
I don't think it shows a lack of confidence. Hillary would have. This shows a tremendous amount of confidence, actually. Biden isn't going to bring in a swing state. He isn't going to "bolster" Obama's lack of experience like the pundits like to say either. And his lengthy list of quotes and verbal gaffes will keep the laughs a comin.

He is likeable, though, and will be strong in debate. And most importantly of all, he only has one house, which means the foundation of the rest of Obama's campaign will not be damaged.

NoLurkerNoMore
08-23-2008, 03:00 PM
The number of homes that McCain owns or doesn't own is relevant to the election? How so?

I'm not sure if it is relevant but what is shows a cavalier attitude. When he becomes president I hope he has a better grasp of details or is surrounded by better staff.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 03:00 PM
The number of homes that McCain owns or doesn't own is relevant to the election? How so?

McCain is trying to brand Obama as an elitist while at the same time he can't even keep track of how many homes he has. The GOP wants America to think Barack Obama is an elitist, but at the same time they want the voters to ignore that the McCain's are worth tens of millions of dollars,and that since McCain became a congressman in Arizona they have bought/built four houses in Arizona worth about 8 million dollars.

Also, McCain has made basic mistakes on foreign policy knowledge, but not knowing how many houses you own shows a lack of basic knowledge that any adult should have.

Thirdly, McCain has made a habit of pleading the fifth when he is asked tough questions and when his answer could be controversial or hypocritical. He needs to be dragged through the mud a bit when he flees from tough questions. We have had more then enough of Administration officials pleading the fifth over the last eight years, and we don't need a President that is afraid or not able to even tell us how many homes his family owns.

Donger
08-23-2008, 03:12 PM
McCain is trying to brand Obama as an elitist while at the same time he can't even keep track of how many homes he has. The GOP wants America to think Barack Obama is an elitist, but at the same time they want the voters to ignore that the McCain's are worth tens of millions of dollars,and that since McCain became a congressman in Arizona they have bought/built four houses in Arizona worth about 8 million dollars.

Also, McCain has made basic mistakes on foreign policy knowledge, but not knowing how many houses you own shows a lack of basic knowledge that any adult should have.

Thirdly, McCain has made a habit of pleading the fifth when he is asked tough questions and when his answer could be controversial or hypocritical. He needs to be dragged through the mud a bit when he flees from tough questions. We have had more then enough of Administration officials pleading the fifth over the last eight years, and we don't need a President that is afraid or not able to even tell us how many homes his family owns.

Unless I'm mistaken, the McCain camp (along with Clinton) claimed Barack Hussein was an elitist because of his "clinging to guns and religion" reference. Is that not right?

More of a "looking down on the little, ignorant people" type of elitism.

McCain married well, very well. No one is disputing that.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 03:19 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, the McCain camp (along with Clinton) claimed Barack Hussein was an elitist because of his "clinging to guns and religion" reference. Is that not right?

More of a "looking down on the little, ignorant people" type of elitism.

McCain married well, very well. No one is disputing that.

McCain calls Obama an elitist because it is a useful GOP tool against Democrats that is already ingrained in the American psyche. Hillary used it because by that time in the primary she was reduced to playing the part of the GOP.

Donger
08-23-2008, 03:20 PM
McCain calls Obama an elitist because it is a useful GOP tool against Democrats that is already ingrained in the American psyche. Hillary used it because by that time in the primary she was reduced to playing the part of the GOP.

I see. You don't think that was an elitist comment?

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 03:23 PM
I see. You don't think that was an elitist comment?

Donger, why don't you post the quote that comment came from. Include in the quote say the 200 words in the speech before that comment and the 200 words after. Then, explain how his comment was elitist in the full context of what Obama was arguing.

Donger
08-23-2008, 03:26 PM
Donger, why don't you post the quote that comment came from. Include in the quote say the 200 words in the speech before that comment and the 200 words after. Then, explain how his comment was elitist in the full context of what Obama was arguing.

Unless ypu can do better, this is what I find:

Obama was caught in an uncharacteristic moment of loose language. Referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses, the presidential hopeful said: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 03:27 PM
But — so the questions you’re most likely to get about me, ‘Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What’s the concrete thing?’ What they wanna hear is — so, we’ll give you talking points about what we’re proposing — close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama’s gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we’re gonna provide health care for every American. So we’ll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing.

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 03:28 PM
Is Obama stereotyping small towns? Certainly not...

Donger
08-23-2008, 05:39 PM
But — so the questions you’re most likely to get about me, ‘Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What’s the concrete thing?’ What they wanna hear is — so, we’ll give you talking points about what we’re proposing — close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama’s gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we’re gonna provide health care for every American. So we’ll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing.

Thanks Deez. I don't see how any reasonable person can read that and not come away thinking, "Wow. What an elitist asshole."

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 05:45 PM
<blink>Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing.</blink>

Donger
08-23-2008, 05:48 PM
Um, now these are in some communities, you know.

Yeah, that helps.

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 05:50 PM
DIE NUANCE DIE

ALL HAIL SOUND BITES

I WILL DEFEAT EVIL

TO THE GATES OF HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

*smile*

penchief
08-23-2008, 06:17 PM
You think that Biden is going to go after McCain now?

I think Biden is perfect to call McCain out on his bullshit attacks against Obama. There is a lot to criticize republicans and McCain for. Everytime they make an unfounded or hypocritical attack Biden is knowledgable enough and articulate enough to turn their claims back on them.

penchief
08-23-2008, 06:22 PM
Man, sounds like Biden should have been the POTUS pick with Barack Hussein as his VPOTUS.

I wonder why that didn't happen.

Biden was my choice for president from the start. But I'm a moonbat so what do I know?

That said, Biden was a really good choice and it will be a shame if the right sees fit to start trashing the character of one of the more decent human beings working on behalf of the people's interests.

jAZ
08-23-2008, 07:49 PM
Heh. Barack Hussein himself enters the thread.

Truth hurts.

The reality is that the GOP policy positions aren't very populist. By nature the people holding populist positions are more popular (all other things being equal). It's just not a long-term winning electoral strategy for Republicans to go toe-to-toe on the issue. In general they lose if the terms of the discussion are the issues.

Donger
08-23-2008, 07:53 PM
Truth hurts.

The reality is that the GOP policy positions aren't very populist. By nature the people holding populist positions are more popular (all other things being equal). It's just not a long-term winning electoral strategy for Republicans to go toe-to-toe on the issue. In general they lose if the terms of the discussion are the issues.

People are easily sold, I suppose. Which is a harder sell?

"We are going to give you everything, for free!"

"We are going to stay out of your lives as much as possible."

jAZ
08-23-2008, 07:57 PM
People are easily sold, I suppose.
You pompous snob.

Donger
08-23-2008, 07:59 PM
You pompous snob.

Cool, I'm in good company. You, Barack Hussein and I should get together sometime.