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Direckshun
08-23-2008, 05:37 PM
See, this is exactly what Biden needs to do.

Use his wit to make his points and attack McCain.

This is why I thought McCain should choose Huckabee: because Biden and Huckabee can make headlines with quips like these.

Time will tell if Biden can avoid making the wrong headlines.

Donger
08-23-2008, 05:42 PM
Time will tell if Biden can avoid making the wrong headlines.

I think history shows that he always has. I fail to see why he'd be any different this time.

Guru
08-23-2008, 05:43 PM
They all need to stop with the personal jabs and get to issues. Who gives a shit how many houses he has. They all think they are better than us anyway. That much we know.

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 06:28 PM
LMAO That was awesome and they are going to hammer McCain everyday on his elitism.

Alphaman
08-23-2008, 06:37 PM
LMAO That was awesome and they are going to hammer McCain everyday on his elitism.

They need to put together an ad that features 3 of McCain's quotes in the last couple of years (I will paraphrase):

1) "I'm not sure what kind of car I drive"
2) "My staff will have to get back to you on how many houses we own"
3) "I don't know as much about the economy as I should"

The ad would end with something like "Sen. John McCain doesn't know seem to know much about his own finances, why should we trust him with ours?"

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 06:40 PM
They need to put together an ad that features 3 of McCain's quotes in the last couple of years (I will paraphrase):

1) "I'm not sure what kind of car I drive"
2) "My staff will have to get back to you on how many houses we own"
3) "I don't know as much about the economy as I should"

The ad would end with something like "Sen. John McCain doesn't know seem to know much about his own finances, why should we trust him with ours?"

LMAO

That is awesome you should send that to the Obama campaign

Alphaman
08-23-2008, 06:41 PM
They all need to stop with the personal jabs and get to issues. Who gives a shit how many houses he has. They all think they are better than us anyway. That much we know.

It's not the number of houses or his personal wealth. It's the fact that he has tried to paint Obama as out of touch. However, this "housing" issue paints McCain as needing to make serious improvement just to get to the level of out of touch.

The question that will be asked is "How can a guy who has so much money that he can't remember how many homes he owns, be in touch with the economic struggles of the common American trying to make ends meet and make his mortgage payment?" It actually is a relavent discussion in this election, especially when Obama has criticized McCain's economic policy as benefitting the rich and not middle America. Obama should continue to hit McCain on this.

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 06:42 PM
They all need to stop with the personal jabs and get to issues. Who gives a shit how many houses he has. They all think they are better than us anyway. That much we know.McCain being an aloof guy who knows nothing about the economy is pretty relevant.

It would be awesome if the American people were receptive to the sort of policy discussion that would illustrate that, but if McCain is generous enough to sum up how out of touch he is in a hilariously well-timed sound bite, so be it.

Logical
08-23-2008, 06:46 PM
They all need to stop with the personal jabs and get to issues. Who gives a shit how many houses he has. They all think they are better than us anyway. That much we know.

Actually Biden's net worth is between $100,000 and 150,000 according a study if Senators last year. Hell I am much richer than him. Lord he had to take a 2nd on his mortgage to pay for college for his kids. We are talking a true Blue collar guy.

Donger
08-23-2008, 06:47 PM
It's not the number of houses or his personal wealth. It's the fact that he has tried to paint Obama as out of touch. However, this "housing" issue paints McCain as needing to make serious improvement just to get to the level of out of touch.

The question that will be asked is "How can a guy who has so much money that he can't remember how many homes he owns, be in touch with the economic struggles of the common American trying to make ends meet and make his mortgage payment?" It actually is a relavent discussion in this election, especially when Obama has criticized McCain's economic policy as benefitting the rich and not middle America. Obama should continue to hit McCain on this.

He's tried to paint Barack Husein as "out of touch"? He's called him an elitist and a celebrity.

And, if memory serves, Barack Hussein reported $4 million in income last year. What did McCain report?

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 06:49 PM
He's tried to paint Barack Husein as "out of touch"? He's called him an elitist and a celebrity.Funny. Your argument two days ago (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4932408&postcount=88) was that McCain has never painted Obama as an elitist.

HolmeZz
08-23-2008, 06:49 PM
Biden is hilarious:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6V-Ehchdje0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6V-Ehchdje0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Donger
08-23-2008, 06:52 PM
Funny. Your argument two days ago (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4932408&postcount=88) was that McCain has never painted Obama as an elitist.

No, I didn't. I asked for an example and was given one.

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 07:10 PM
No, I didn't. I asked for an example and was given one.lol

NewChief
08-23-2008, 07:45 PM
They all need to stop with the personal jabs and get to issues. Who gives a shit how many houses he has. They all think they are better than us anyway. That much we know.

Judging by polls, a lot of people give a shit about the personal jabs. I wish it weren't he case, but it is. Being that the object of a presidential race is to win, I imagine things will just go downhill from here.

Captain Obvious
08-23-2008, 08:53 PM
He's tried to paint Barack Husein as "out of touch"? He's called him an elitist and a celebrity.

And, if memory serves, Barack Hussein reported $4 million in income last year. What did McCain report?

Barack was writing a book outlining his thoughts on some of the key issues in our country, putting himself and his ideals out there.

And my friends, we're still waiting on McCain to tell us anything of substance.

Donger
08-23-2008, 08:56 PM
lol

What's funny?

Donger
08-23-2008, 08:57 PM
Barack was writing a book outlining his thoughts on some of the key issues in our country, putting himself and his ideals out there.

And my friends, we're still waiting on McCain to tell us anything of substance.

I assume he could have done that for free, no?

I have no problems with him getting paid, but let's not pretend he isn't a multi-millionaire, okay?

Logical
08-23-2008, 09:00 PM
I assume he could have done that for free, no?

I have no problems with him getting paid, but let's not pretend he isn't a multi-millionaire, okay?So he writes well enough to sell books, how is that bad? Isn't the whole point that his beliefs will be out there for people to read?

Donger
08-23-2008, 09:03 PM
So he writes well enough to sell books, how is that bad? Isn't the whole point that his beliefs will be out there for people to read?

No, the point is that he's a multi-millionaire who reported income greater than McCain.

But, if the civil Barack Hussein camp want to blame him for marrying well, so be it.

Ultra Peanut
08-23-2008, 09:07 PM
What's funny?Yourrrrrrrrrr face.

Ari Chi3fs
08-23-2008, 09:08 PM
I think I am going to like Biden. He is hilarious.

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 09:09 PM
No, the point is that he's a multi-millionaire who reported income greater than McCain.

But, if the civil Barack Hussein camp want to blame him for marrying well, so be it.

LMAO Not enough close

Maybe you don't like facts.

One of the clumsy arguments that the McCain camp tried to make today in hopes of slowing down the media freight train over not knowing how many homes he and his wife, Cindy, own was that Barack Obama (D) is also a rich guy who lives in a mansion himself, just like McCain. I believe the term they used was "a frickin' mansion (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/21/mccain_spokesmans_retort_obama.html)."

Well, there's just one problem with that argument. These guys aren't even in the same class.

Earlier this year, the nonpartisan Sunlight Foundation did an analysis (http://fortune535.sunlightprojects.org/) of the net worth of each of the 535 members of Congress based on their personal financial disclosure.

Guess which one is worth about $36 million and which one is worth $799,000?
<center>http://image.politicalbase.com/uploads/user/floating/1156/ObamaMcCainWealth.png</center>

Donger
08-23-2008, 09:14 PM
LMAO Not enough close

Maybe you don't like facts.

Sorry, I assumed "you" knew the difference between income and net worth:

"Campaigning for president has been very good for Sen. Barack Obama’s pocketbook, with his household income jumping from $991,296 in 2006 to $4.2 million in 2007, tax records show."

"In all, the 71-year-old Arizona senator reported total income of $405,409 last year, and paid $84,460 in federal income taxes."

I like facts just fine.

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 09:18 PM
Sorry, I assumed "you" knew the difference between income and net worth:

"Campaigning for president has been very good for Sen. Barack Obama’s pocketbook, with his household income jumping from $991,296 in 2006 to $4.2 million in 2007, tax records show."

"In all, the 71-year-old Arizona senator reported total income of $405,409 last year, and paid $84,460 in federal income taxes."

I like facts just fine.

So for 1 year Obama reports more income than McCain but McCain is worth 45 times what Obama is.

McCain is 45 times more elitist than Obama is. :p

Logical
08-23-2008, 09:20 PM
Sorry, I assumed "you" knew the difference between income and net worth:

"Campaigning for president has been very good for Sen. Barack Obama’s pocketbook, with his household income jumping from $991,296 in 2006 to $4.2 million in 2007, tax records show."

"In all, the 71-year-old Arizona senator reported total income of $405,409 last year, and paid $84,460 in federal income taxes."

I like facts just fine.LOL as if a single years income represents his wealth.

Logical
08-23-2008, 09:23 PM
No, the point is that he's a multi-millionaire who reported income greater than McCain.

But, if the civil Barack Hussein camp want to blame him for marrying well, so be it.

Oh I may have to reread what I quoted, I swear I recall you criticizing Obama for taking money for his book on his positions?:spock:

Donger
08-23-2008, 09:31 PM
So for 1 year Obama reports more income than McCain but McCain is worth 45 times what Obama is.

McCain is 45 times more elitist than Obama is. :p

I've never said that McCain is wealthy. He is. So is Barack Hussein.

Donger
08-23-2008, 09:33 PM
Oh I may have to reread what I quoted, I swear I recall you criticizing Obama for taking money for his book on his positions?:spock:

Nope. Fleece his followers for all they have.

tiptap
08-23-2008, 09:35 PM
That would be capitalism at its best, no?

Donger
08-23-2008, 09:37 PM
That would be capitalism at its best, no?

Barack Hussein isn't an elitist because he's rich. He's an elitist because he looks down on people who don't hold his views, such as those who cling to guns and religion.

Messier
08-23-2008, 09:48 PM
Barack Hussein isn't an elitist because he's rich. He's an elitist because he looks down on people who don't hold his views, such as those who cling to guns and religion.

No, he's an elitist because he's famous. Don't you listen to the ads?

Captain Obvious
08-23-2008, 09:50 PM
I've never said that McCain is wealthy. He is. So is Barack Hussein.

But according to McCain, Obama is not rich.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 09:53 PM
I've never said that McCain is wealthy. He is. So is Barack Hussein.

But you do try to make the case that Obama earning four million from a book deal makes him elitist, don't you?

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 09:55 PM
Barack Hussein isn't an elitist because he's rich. He's an elitist because he looks down on people who don't hold his views, such as those who cling to guns and religion.

You have yet to make a case for why that comment is elitist. Asking a question after you make the claim, or phrasing said claim in the form of a question doesn't prove the claim, right?

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 09:56 PM
That would be capitalism at its best, no?

Donger only believes in gold-digging, not lucrative book deals. Isn't gold-digging the only true form of bootstraps?

Logical
08-23-2008, 09:56 PM
Barack Hussein isn't an elitist because he's rich. He's an elitist because he looks down on people who don't hold his views, such as those who cling to guns and religion.To bad he has so many other views I am not ready to accept because we agree that people who cling to guns and religion because of their economic bad times are being pathetic.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:09 PM
No, he's an elitist because he's famous. Don't you listen to the ads?

Not really. From the ads I've seen, McCain's making the point that being a celebrity does make one ready to lead.

Considering Biden thinks/thought the same...

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:10 PM
You have yet to make a case for why that comment is elitist. Asking a question after you make the claim, or phrasing said claim in the form of a question doesn't prove the claim, right?

You chose to not answer my question. That isn't my concern.

irishjayhawk
08-23-2008, 10:11 PM
Barack Hussein isn't an elitist because he's rich. He's an elitist because he looks down on people who don't hold his views, such as those who cling to guns and religion.

How so on religion?

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:12 PM
You chose to not answer my question. That isn't my concern.

Shouldn't you actually make an argument first?

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:12 PM
But according to McCain, Obama is not rich.

Wasn't it $5 million? Pretty darn close. Besides, Barack Hussein considers himself rich.

There's a nothing wrong with that.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:12 PM
How so on religion?

Ask Barack Hussein.

irishjayhawk
08-23-2008, 10:12 PM
Ask Barack Hussein.

Oh, so you're just making shit up?

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:14 PM
Shouldn't you actually make an argument first?

I've already made it. Saying "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations" is an elitist comment.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:15 PM
Oh, so you're just making shit up?

No.

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

irishjayhawk
08-23-2008, 10:15 PM
No.

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

What's false about that statement? Seems pretty accurate to me.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:16 PM
What's false about that statement? Seems pretty accurate to me.

Good for you. You and Barack Hussein agree.

I didn't say if it was false or not. I just said that it was elitist.

BucEyedPea
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
I don't think that's what Biden should do. This is just another irrelevency that won't matter to anyone unless it's the part of the elecorate that's into class warfare. Believe, me that is not what swing or independent voters like especially disgruntled Rs. That's the far left of the D party that buys that rhetoric. Obama already has their vote so why do something that could backfire?

irishjayhawk
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
Good for you. You and Barack Hussein agree.

I didn't say if it was false or not. I just said that it was elitist.

How is it elitist?

Has the truth has now become elitist?

banyon
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
Good for you. You and Barack Hussein agree.

I didn't say if it was false or not. I just said that it was elitist.

Is that like telling people they won't pick lettuce for $50 an hour?

irishjayhawk
08-23-2008, 10:18 PM
I don't think that's what Biden should do. This is just another irrelvency that won't matter to anyone unless it's the part of the elecorate that's into class warfare. Believe, me that is not what swing and independent voters like especially disgrunteld Rs. That's the far left of the D party that buys that rhetoric.

You give too much credit to the Average american for seeing through bullshit.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:18 PM
I've already made it. Saying "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations" is an elitist comment.

Oh, so that is what you call an argument?

Here is my rebuttal then: Saying "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations" is not an elitist comment.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:19 PM
Is that like telling people they won't pick lettuce for $50 an hour?

Not comparable, IMO. That was a very hostile crowd. McCain was f*cking with them.

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:19 PM
You give too much credit to the Average american for seeing through bullshit.

No doubt.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:20 PM
Oh, so that is what you call an argument?

Here is my rebuttal then: Saying "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations" is not an elitist comment.

I understand you don't like Barack Hussein revealing his true self, but he said what he said.

If you don't have the courage to call it what it is, so be it.

irishjayhawk
08-23-2008, 10:21 PM
I understand you don't like Barack Hussein revealing his true self, but he said what he said.

If you don't have the courage to call it what it is, so be it.

So, once again, you don't really have an argument for why that quote is an elitist statement?

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:21 PM
I understand you don't like Barack Hussein revealing his true self, but he said what he said.

If you don't have the courage to call it what it is, so be it.

You still haven't made an argument for how that comment was elitist, have you?

irishjayhawk
08-23-2008, 10:24 PM
McCain: "I'll have to let my staff get back to you on that...[how many houses he owns].

That was an elitist statement. I won't tell you why.

I understand you don't like McCain revealing his true self, but he said what he said.

If you don't have the courage to call it what it is, so be it.

Messier
08-23-2008, 10:26 PM
Not comparable, IMO. That was a very hostile crowd. McCain was f*cking with them.

So you say. I don't know that to be the case.

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 10:27 PM
"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Is this a stereotype?

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:28 PM
"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Is this a stereotype?

I don't know DeezNutz, why don't you share your opinion and then make an argument as to why it is or is not a stereotype?

banyon
08-23-2008, 10:28 PM
Not comparable, IMO. That was a very hostile crowd. McCain was f*cking with them.

That's not elitist? Making fun of working Americans?

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:29 PM
So, once again, you don't really have an argument for why that quote is an elitist statement?

It's self-evident. "Clinging to guns and religion."

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:29 PM
So you say. I don't know that to be the case.

I don't know either. It's my opinion.

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:30 PM
I don't know DeezNutz, why don't you share your opinion and then make an argument as to why it is or is not a stereotype?


We need some nuance.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:30 PM
It's self-evident. "Clinging to guns and religion."

Why don't you make an argument as to why it is self-evident donger?

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:30 PM
McCain: "I'll have to let my staff get back to you on that...[how many houses he owns].

That was an elitist statement. I won't tell you why.

I understand you don't like McCain revealing his true self, but he said what he said.

If you don't have the courage to call it what it is, so be it.

That's ignorance. Not elitism.

Do you people really not get this?

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:31 PM
We need some nuance.

We need those blacks to pay us reparations for supporting their lazy asses, right shiteater?

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 10:31 PM
I don't know DeezNutz, why don't you share your opinion and then make an argument as to why it is or is not a stereotype?

Please excuse the rhetorical question. I figured it made my position pretty clear, and there's no question that Obama was stereotyping small-town life.

I find this interesting coming from the candidate who authored a fine speech on race. I'm sure some will struggle to see any connection...

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:32 PM
We need those blacks to pay us reparations for supporting their lazy asses, right shiteater?


Quit your job yet?

banyon
08-23-2008, 10:33 PM
That's ignorance. Not elitism.

Do you people really not get this?

The inference is that you'd have to be an elitist not to know how many houses you own. It's a problem pretty squarely unique to the elite.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:33 PM
Why don't you make an argument as to why it is self-evident donger?

Well, that shouldn't be necessary (considering it's self-evident), but if you insist:

That comment basically confirmed that Barack Hussein looks down on those who fall back to such things (guns and religion) in supposedly dire times. They "cling" to them in order to provide comfort.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:33 PM
Please excuse the rhetorical question. I figured it made my position pretty clear, and there's no question that Obama was stereotyping small-town life.

I find this interesting coming from the candidate that authored his speech on race. I'm sure some will struggle to see any connection...

I don't know DeezNutz, it seemed from the longer quote you posted in another thread that he prefaced the statement donger believes is elitist by saying that not everyone in these areas behaves in that way?

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:34 PM
The inference is that you'd have to be an elitist not to know how many houses you own. It's a problem pretty squarely unique to the elite.

Not at all. It's a problem squarely unique to the guy who married well and has no idea how many houses his wife has bought.

Logical
08-23-2008, 10:35 PM
I've already made it. Saying "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations" is an elitist comment.Not like you Donger, here is the entire quote in context.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

irishjayhawk
08-23-2008, 10:35 PM
That's ignorance. Not elitism.

Do you people really not get this?

ROFL

Whoosh, point right by your head.

Pitt Gorilla
08-23-2008, 10:36 PM
http://agileproductdesign.com/blog/images/inigo.jpgIt's self-evident. "Clinging to guns and religion."

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:37 PM
Not like you Donger, here is the entire quote in context.

What difference does it make what made them that way (in Barack Hussein's eyes)? He still views them that way, "clinging to guns and religion."

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:39 PM
ROFL

Whoosh, point right by your head.

I've told you why that statement was elitist. But, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge it.

Logical
08-23-2008, 10:41 PM
The inference is that you'd have to be an elitist not to know how many houses you own. It's a problem pretty squarely unique to the elite.Yep I commonly forget whether I own 1 or 2 homes, I can imagine how hard it is when you are not sure whether the number is 7 or 11 because of all the multiple homes on some properties.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:41 PM
Well, that shouldn't be necessary (considering it's self-evident), but if you insist:

That comment basically confirmed that Barack Hussein looks down on those who fall back to such things (guns and religion) in supposedly dire times. They "cling" to them in order to provide comfort.

Making a statement without any evidence, and then acting flabbergasted when everyone else doesn't see how "self-evident" the statement is does not an effective argument make. What you see as "elitist" I see as "insightful." You have done anything to contradict that, except presenting your opinion as self-evident fact.

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:42 PM
I've told you why that statement was elitist. But, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge it.


In other words, you are saying he's not a retard, just intellectually dishonest? I usually flip a coin when it comes to moonbats.

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 10:43 PM
I don't know DeezNutz, it seemed from the longer quote you posted in another thread that he prefaced the statement donger believes is elitist by saying that not everyone in these areas behaves in that way?

"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Pretty broad brush. One's language doesn't need to be absolute to be a stereotype.

It's pretty clear that Obama would like to have this moment back.

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:43 PM
Making a statement without any evidence, and then acting flabbergasted when everyone else doesn't see how "self-evident" the statement is does not an effective argument make. What you see as "elitist" I see as "insightful." You have done anything to contradict that, except presenting your opinion as self-evident fact.

Your brain must get tied in knots with all the rationalizing you do for B.O.'s BS.

banyon
08-23-2008, 10:44 PM
Not at all. It's a problem squarely unique to the guy who married well and has no idea how many houses his wife has bought.

Do you realize how silly that sounds? It's a distinction without a difference if he was born elite or married into the elite.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:44 PM
Your brain must get tied in knots with all the rationalizing you do for B.O.'s BS.

Actually, the last time my brain got tied in knots was when...you said that black people should pay white people reparations. I have been fine since I recovered from that.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:45 PM
Making a statement without any evidence, and then acting flabbergasted when everyone else doesn't see how "self-evident" the statement is does not an effective argument make. What you see as "elitist" I see as "insightful." You have done anything to contradict that, except presenting your opinion as self-evident fact.

I asked you on the other thread, and you did not answer. So I'll ask you again:

"You don't think that was an elitist comment?"

Follows, thanks to DeezNutz:

But — so the questions you’re most likely to get about me, ‘Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What’s the concrete thing?’ What they wanna hear is — so, we’ll give you talking points about what we’re proposing — close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama’s gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we’re gonna provide health care for every American. So we’ll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing.

Messier
08-23-2008, 10:45 PM
In other words, you are saying he's not a retard, just intellectually dishonest? I usually flip a coin when it comes to moonbats.

I was worried you weren't going to fit moonbat into this post, but just as I was losing hope, BAM!

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:45 PM
Do you realize how silly that sounds? It's a distinction without a difference if he was born elite or married into the elite.


It's splitting hairs at this point.

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:45 PM
I was worried you weren't going to fit moonbat into this post, but just as I was losing hope, BAM!

Ride like the wind, Maria!

banyon
08-23-2008, 10:45 PM
It's splitting hairs at this point.

Yeah, that's what Donger was doing, you are correct.

Messier
08-23-2008, 10:46 PM
It's splitting hairs at this point.


Awww. Couldn't you have said, It's splitting hairs at this point moonbat?

Logical
08-23-2008, 10:47 PM
What difference does it make what made them that way (in Barack Hussein's eyes)? He still views them that way, "clinging to guns and religion."
So do I, know of quite a few people like that in Missouri, Kansas and Tennessee. I do feel sorry for them but not really better than them. I understand that they substitute their hunting and shooting for entertainment and they cling to religion to make up for their lack of hope for better times.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:47 PM
Do you realize how silly that sounds? It's a distinction without a difference if he was born elite or married into the elite.

As far as I can tell, McCain isn't looking down on anyone. The fact that he married well is irrelevant. Wealth doesn't necessarily equal condescension.

Barack Hussein apparently has both. Hence, elitism.

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:48 PM
Awww. Couldn't you have said, It's splitting hairs at this point moonbat?

I'm not a moonbat, I'm a wingnut. Its. spliiting hars. aT this POynt.

***SPRAYER
08-23-2008, 10:49 PM
As far as I can tell, McCain isn't looking down on anyone. The fact that he married well is irrelevant. Wealth doesn't necessarily equal condescension.

Barack Hussein apparently has both. Hence, elitism.

Barack Obama is an asshole. I don't know how I can be any clearer.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:49 PM
So do I, know of quite a few people like that in Missouri, Kansas and Tennessee. I do feel sorry for them but not really better than them. I understand that they substitute their hunting and shooting for entertainment and they cling to religion to make up for their lack of hope for better times.

That's because you are an elitist, you knob!

:p

banyon
08-23-2008, 10:51 PM
As far as I can tell, McCain isn't looking down on anyone. The fact that he married well is irrelevant. Wealth doesn't necessarily equal condescension.

Barack Hussein apparently has both. Hence, elitism.

What about making fun of those working people? You never did get back to that.

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 10:51 PM
Wealth doesn't necessarily equal condescension.


This should be your sig. for the time being.

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:51 PM
As far as I can tell, McCain isn't looking down on anyone. The fact that he married well is irrelevant. Wealth doesn't necessarily equal condescension.

Barack Hussein apparently has both. Hence, elitism.

Didn't the guy that crafted McCain's economic policy call the USA a "nation of whiners?" It would seem that his economic policy which includes huge tax cuts for the super rich, but very little for the lower and middle classes is elitist at its core?

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:53 PM
What about making fun of those working people? You never did get back to that.

"Working people" who were supposedly yelling at him with expletives?

beer bacon
08-23-2008, 10:55 PM
"Working people" who were supposedly yelling at him with expletives?

Working people never curse. They were stinking elitists in disguise!

banyon
08-23-2008, 10:55 PM
"Working people" who were supposedly yelling at him with expletives?

They were all calling him expletives?

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:56 PM
Didn't the guy that crafted McCain's economic policy call the USA a "nation of whiners?" It would seem that his economic policy which includes huge tax cuts for the super rich, but very little for the lower and middle classes is elitist at its core?

Only for those who play class warfare. The super rich already pay the vast tax burden in this country.

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:56 PM
They were all calling him expletives?

So it would seem.

banyon
08-23-2008, 10:57 PM
So it would seem.

It sounds like they yelled "pay a decent wage"

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpB9OoOU02M&rel=0&color1=11645361&color2=13619151&fs=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpB9OoOU02M&rel=0&color1=11645361&color2=13619151&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Then he questioned their work ethic.

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Here come the pie charts, again...

Donger
08-23-2008, 10:58 PM
It sounds like they yelled "pay a decent wage"

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpB9OoOU02M&rel=0&color1=11645361&color2=13619151&fs=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpB9OoOU02M&rel=0&color1=11645361&color2=13619151&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Then he questioned their work ethic.

Later, the senator outlined his position on the Senate immigration debate, saying tougher border enforcement must be accompanied by guest-worker provisions that give illegal immigrants a legal path toward citizenship.

Murmurs from the crowd turned to booing. “Pay a decent wage!” one audience member shouted.

“I’ve heard that statement before,” McCain said before threatening to leave.

Afterward, the senator said he offered to cut his speech short “because I wanted to be heard.”

In the speech, McCain also argued that withdrawing U.S. troops prematurely from Iraq would turn terrorists loose on the United States.

This time, there was no booing — though one audience member cursed from the back of the crowd.

McCain got another laugh when he finished the speech and asked whether anybody had “questions, comments or insults.”

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 11:00 PM
"Because you can't do it, my friend."

ROFL

banyon
08-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Later, the senator outlined his position on the Senate immigration debate, saying tougher border enforcement must be accompanied by guest-worker provisions that give illegal immigrants a legal path toward citizenship.

Murmurs from the crowd turned to booing. “Pay a decent wage!” one audience member shouted.

“I’ve heard that statement before,” McCain said before threatening to leave.

Afterward, the senator said he offered to cut his speech short “because I wanted to be heard.”

In the speech, McCain also argued that withdrawing U.S. troops prematurely from Iraq would turn terrorists loose on the United States.

This time, there was no booing — though one audience member cursed from the back of the crowd.

McCain got another laugh when he finished the speech and asked whether anybody had “questions, comments or insults.”

So you were wrong about that "they were all yelling expletives" part, then huh? Yet it didn't stop McCain from questioning the whole crowd's work ethic.

BucEyedPea
08-23-2008, 11:04 PM
McCain got another laugh when he finished the speech and asked whether anybody had “questions, comments orinsults.
ROFL That's pretty funny. I'da laughed too. Still,it was worse than elitist. Disgusting.

Logical
08-23-2008, 11:25 PM
It sounds like they yelled "pay a decent wage"

<object height="344" width="425">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpB9OoOU02M&rel=0&color1=11645361&color2=13619151&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" height="344" width="425"></object>

Then he questioned their work ethic.ROFL They should run that video everywhere unemployment is high (I mean real paying employment is now low). Forget the manipulation of the statistics.

Donger
08-23-2008, 11:47 PM
So you were wrong about that "they were all yelling expletives" part, then huh? Yet it didn't stop McCain from questioning the whole crowd's work ethic.

I didn't say "all."

banyon
08-23-2008, 11:59 PM
I didn't say "all."

"Working people" who were supposedly yelling at him with expletives?

They were all calling him expletives?

You are not letting other people login in on your account are you? You may want to get that checked out.

Donger
08-24-2008, 12:08 AM
You are not letting other people login in on your account are you? You may want to get that checked out.

You said all, not me. Sorry, I should have checked your assumptions closer before quoting them.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 12:15 AM
As always, Donger splitting hairs and playing semantics, but when it's done to him he calls you out on it.

Donger
08-24-2008, 12:21 AM
As always, Donger splitting hairs and playing semantics, but when it's done to him he calls you out on it.

I didn't call anyone out. I didn't say "all." Banyon did.

Simple stuff.

Anyway, it seems clear that it was a hostile crowd. Surely, you'd agree with that, no? And, McCain was having fun with them.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 12:34 AM
I didn't call anyone out. I didn't say "all." Banyon did.

Simple stuff.

Anyway, it seems clear that it was a hostile crowd. Surely, you'd agree with that, no? And, McCain was having fun with them.

I'm not referencing this thread only. It's your whole schtick. In almost every thread.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-24-2008, 12:38 AM
How is it elitist?

Has the truth has now become elitist?

When the average man needs to be lied to much like a smack addict needs a needle in his arm...

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 12:39 AM
You said all, not me. Sorry, I should have checked your assumptions closer before quoting them.

Wait, wait, wait...

You are claiming that your agreement with the statement:

They were all calling him expletives?

Does not mean you subscribe to the term "all" that banyon used?

Logical
08-24-2008, 12:41 AM
Wait, wait, wait...

You are claiming that your agreement with the statement:



Does not mean you subscribe to the term "all" that banyon used?You will never pin him down Donger is more slippery than a rodent in a grease pit.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 12:42 AM
You will never pin him down Donger is more slippery than a rodent in a grease pit.

I know. :shake:

Donger
08-24-2008, 12:45 AM
Wait, wait, wait...

You are claiming that your agreement with the statement:



Does not mean you subscribe to the term "all" that banyon used?

Like I said, I should have checked his assumptions closer before quoting them.

Alphaman
08-24-2008, 07:46 AM
Sorry, I assumed "you" knew the difference between income and net worth:

"Campaigning for president has been very good for Sen. Barack Obama’s pocketbook, with his household income jumping from $991,296 in 2006 to $4.2 million in 2007, tax records show."

"In all, the 71-year-old Arizona senator reported total income of $405,409 last year, and paid $84,460 in federal income taxes."

I like facts just fine.

The McCains reported about $6M in income last year to the Obamas $4M. You have to factor in his wife's and Michelle Obama's income because that goes to the lifestyle they lead.

banyon
08-24-2008, 10:12 AM
Wait, wait, wait...

You are claiming that your agreement with the statement:



Does not mean you subscribe to the term "all" that banyon used?

And the reason I tried to get him to clarify is because he was attempting to use it as some excuse for McCain's denigration of these people. They were hostile, he couldn't help it. As you can hear from the video, it couldn't have been more than one guy swearing, if that, and it's not even audible or distinguishable. It's pretty clear to anyone with an honest interpretation of the video that McCain was responding to the people who were demanding a decent wage. It's probably a good thing for him he suffered this humiliation in 2006 instead of 08.

HonestChieffan
08-24-2008, 10:17 AM
you can get all that insight from sounds on a tape? Zounds!

banyon
08-24-2008, 10:20 AM
you can get all that insight from sounds on a tape? Zounds!

Yeah, if there's an argument about what was said and when, a sound recording may often prove useful to resolving those issues. I know that's pretty difficult to understand.

Oh, HonestChieffan, what drive-by, short attention span wisdom will you provde us with next?

whatsmynameagain
08-24-2008, 11:33 AM
They need to put together an ad that features 3 of McCain's quotes in the last couple of years (I will paraphrase):

1) "I'm not sure what kind of car I drive"
2) "My staff will have to get back to you on how many houses we own"
3) "I don't know as much about the economy as I should"

The ad would end with something like "Sen. John McCain doesn't know seem to know much about his own finances, why should we trust him with ours?"

freaking awesome!


Posted via Mobile Device

mlyonsd
08-24-2008, 11:35 AM
freaking awesome!


Posted via Mobile Device

Do you always post from a mobile device? You are the only one I see that message from.

patteeu
08-24-2008, 03:40 PM
Actually Biden's net worth is between $100,000 and 150,000 according a study if Senators last year. Hell I am much richer than him. Lord he had to take a 2nd on his mortgage to pay for college for his kids. We are talking a true Blue collar guy.

That's hard to believe. Those are pretty small numbers for a guy who has had a decent wage during his career and is approaching retirement. If his net worth is really that low, either he's been very generous or he's probably not that good at handling his money. I don't think those numbers are quite right though.

beer bacon
08-24-2008, 03:49 PM
That's hard to believe. Those are pretty small numbers for a guy who has had a decent wage during his career and is approaching retirement. If his net worth is really that low, either he's been very generous or he's probably not that good at handling his money. I don't think those numbers are quite right though.

Biden was worth $278,000 back in 2006.

J Diddy
08-24-2008, 03:51 PM
Biden was worth $278,000 back in 2006.

thats betore bushs oil buddies got a hold of em

patteeu
08-24-2008, 03:52 PM
Biden was worth $278,000 back in 2006.

That still isn't very high, but it's much more reasonable. Thanks.

NewChief
08-24-2008, 03:54 PM
Biden was worth $278,000 back in 2006.

I believe he donated the difference to fund training for terrorists from Barack's radical madrassa, thus cementing his choice as vice-imam of America.