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View Full Version : Chiefs Before the avalanch of "Croyle Sux" threads come, consider this:


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Frankie
08-23-2008, 10:04 PM
I am one who is still on Brodie Croyle's bandwagon. With that out of the way, I have to admit he looked like crap in the first half. But let's look at the possible reasons. I am not totally dismissing that he may not be very good after all, but I think there were factors contributing to his performance tonight:

(A)- Our still learning O-line was facing a 3-4 'D' for the first time. We had all heard that Niswanger's height might give him trouble when he is lined up directly against a nose. Also the difference in blocking assignments was giving our inexperienced O-line problems. All this combined, was depriving Croyle of any reasonable protection. Not having time to scan the field and with his lack of experience, he was locking on his primary receivers and hampering his chances for effective pass plays. With the adjustments in the 2nd half, and the roll-outs we saw a better representation of Croyle's potential. That is reason number one for me to stay on his bandwagon.

(B)- Reason number two is the fact that we all knew he would have up and down games this year. This was a down game for him. Live with it. I, like many a Chiefs fan, have made a promise to myself to consider that factor this year. But unlike many of you, I didn't intend that promise to be just lip service.

milkman
08-23-2008, 10:06 PM
That's all very good, but the fact is, other than that first drive of the preseason, Croyle really hasn't given anyone much to grasp onto.

blueballs
08-23-2008, 10:07 PM
rep
for taking off the homer glasses
and still supporting

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:07 PM
That's all very good, but the fact is, other than that first drive of the preseason, Croyle really hasn't given anyone much to grasp onto.

Which plays right into his playing time last year he didn't give anyone much, he got injured twice that was about all he really showed.

Mr. Arrowhead
08-23-2008, 10:08 PM
The chiefs are so cursed, that i almost believe that Croyle will suck this year, we will release him, we will draft a QB in the first round, who will be a bust, while Brodie is a Super Bowl Winning QB.

JuicesFlowing
08-23-2008, 10:11 PM
I agree. The plethora of Croyle crushing was hilarious tonight. The Chiefs do not have the O-line of say, the Colts or Pats ... And Croyle is not experienced either. Yeah, he made a lot of bad throws, but instead of immediately blaming him I try to factor in everything else. Bad pass protection, receivers not getting open, dropped passes. I'm surprised there isn't a "Carl Peterson lost us this game" thread .... know what i mean?

KCUnited
08-23-2008, 10:12 PM
Croyle looked like shit tonight, he'd tell you himself.

JuicesFlowing
08-23-2008, 10:12 PM
Croyle and Peterson are ALWAYS the reason the Chiefs lose. Always. Whatever.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:12 PM
Getting owned on pass rushes by the Dolphins in preseason is a pretty scary sign.

Frankie
08-23-2008, 10:13 PM
That's all very good, but the fact is, other than that first drive of the preseason, Croyle really hasn't given anyone much to grasp onto.

I think the first drive of the 2nd half was pretty good. Not spectacular, but pretty good. Also on our first drive of the game he hit our star receiver in the hands and it was dropped. A completion there would most likely result in pretty respectable gain. That alone could have set the tempo for that drive and possibly the first half. Who knows?

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 10:14 PM
Getting owned on pass rushes by the Dolphins in preseason is a pretty scary sign.

It improved when McIntosh went out. Richardson didnt look too bad.

Frankie
08-23-2008, 10:15 PM
The chiefs are so cursed, that i almost believe that Croyle will suck this year, we will release him, we will draft a QB in the first round, who will be a bust, while Brodie is a Super Bowl Winning QB.

ROFL

Sometimes it feels that way. But have faith. Maybe we fans collectively should start fighting those negative vibes and start sending positive ones to the team.

Smed1065
08-23-2008, 10:15 PM
Which plays right into his playing time last year he didn't give anyone much, he got injured twice that was about all he really showed.

The numbers match a first round pick, so he sucks. ML misses 6 of 18 in the NFL but is not injury prone? BC misses 2? of 8 starting and is? 30% and 25%

It is not about yesterday but now in the NFL I believe.

Yeah, he is thin, he sucks, but ML is better because of his days at usc. Beside the 50 million plus he signed.

Dollar for dollar, you have to hollar for the 80% discount. Unless you have a history.

blueballs
08-23-2008, 10:15 PM
It was thier night in Chicago
converting all those 3rd downs
payback/even out -was Miami

FAX
08-23-2008, 10:15 PM
All I know is what Lenny tells me.

He was bitching about the receivers tonight. To his eyes, it looked as though they could not get open at all and, apparently, the Fins were playing man-to-man for the most part. That's not good.

Lenny also said that Croyle was the victim of a couple of drops, as well. It was as though we couldn't get any momentum or rhythm going at all tonight. Sad.

FAX

KCJohnny
08-23-2008, 10:16 PM
(B)- Reason number two is the fact that we all knew he would have up and down games this year. This was a down game for him. Live with it. I, like many a Chiefs fan, have made a promise to myself to consider that factor this year. But unlike many of you, I didn't intend that promise to be just lip service.

Live with it is good counsel. Even the great QBs had to come up this way with several bad games in their first 2 years of starting: the Mannings, Favre, Elway, etc... there are very few Kurt Warners out there that shine from start 1.

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 10:16 PM
Getting owned on pass rushes by the Dolphins in preseason is a pretty scary sign.

Both of our lines are pretty bad right now.

I think the D is just as bad as the O which there is no excuse for that since Herm\Gun have basically the same players as last year

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
The numbers match a first round pick, so he sucks. ML misses 6 of 18 in the NFL but is not injury prone? BC misses 2? of 8 starting and is? 30% and 25%

It is not about yesterday but now in the NFL I believe.

Yeah, he is thin, he sucks, but ML is better because of his days at usc. Beside the 50 million plus he signed.

Dollar for dollar, you have to hollar for the 80% discount. Unless you have a history.

I don't think Matt Leinart at this point is a good standard to use unless you wanna use his college numbers.....as I've ALWAYS said he's in the same spot. Also his overally injury history isn't remotely as bad.

KCJohnny
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
All I know is what Lenny tells me.

He was bitching about the receivers tonight. To his eyes, it looked as though they could not get open at all and, apparently, the Fins were playing man-to-man for the most part. That's not good.

Lenny also said that Croyle was the victim of a couple of drops, as well. It was as though we couldn't get any momentum or rhythm going at all tonight. Sad.

FAX

The Fish had their starting DBs in the game in the 4th quarter. We had 2 guys at FL and SE that I have never even heard of.

JuicesFlowing
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
I know this has nothing to do with Croyle, but boy, are we in need of a field goal kicker!

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
Both of our lines are pretty bad right now.

I think the D is just as bad as the O which there is no excuse for that since Herm\Gun have basically the same players as last year

That's because Tamba Hali is exactly what I feared he was before that draft....a finished product with no upside.

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
I think the first dive of the 2nd half was pretty good. Not spectacular, but pretty good. Also on our first drive of the game he hit our star receiver in the hands and it was dropped. A completion there would most likely result in pretty respectable gain. That alone could have set the tempo for that drive and possibly the first half. Who knows?


Nope.

Can't do that.

EVERYTHING is Croyle's fault.

OL not blocking? **** you, Croyle. You suck.

WR's dropping passes? **** you, Croyle. You suck.

RB's missing the few holes they get? **** you, Croyle. You suck.

Gatorade watered down on the bench? **** you, Croyle. You suck.




SIX REGULAR SEASON STARTS.

Yet people want to treat it like he's had 20.

In terms of live game action, he's still a rookie. Mistakes WILL be made. And those mistakes will likely be magnified due to the lack of a decent OL.

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
All I know is what Lenny tells me.

He was bitching about the receivers tonight. To his eyes, it looked as though they could not get open at all and, apparently, the Fins were playing man-to-man for the most part. That's not good.

Lenny also said that Croyle was the victim of a couple of drops, as well. It was as though we couldn't get any momentum or rhythm going at all tonight. Sad.

FAX

Our receivers do suck balls. Its alot harder to see what they are doing on tv, at the games live its alot easier to see them.

Mr. Arrowhead
08-23-2008, 10:19 PM
i actually expected the D to struggle a little bit, i mean we had a guy that wont even make the team starting at LB for us

Rausch
08-23-2008, 10:19 PM
I don't think Matt Leinart at this point is a good standard to use unless you wanna use his college numbers.....as I've ALWAYS said he's in the same spot. Also his overally injury history isn't remotely as bad.

Or you could say he's a complete bust that can't take in a playbook or operate an offense in an NFL game.

He's still on roster due to his paycheck and won't be on any in 2 years...

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 10:20 PM
That's because Tamba Hali is exactly what I feared he was before that draft....a finished product with no upside.

I am just curious when people are going to hold Gun responsible for the D sucking so bad.

With a brand new offense and basically a rookie QB the D needs to be at least Top 10 so we can keep the scores down. That is not going to happen as long as Gun is here.

FAX
08-23-2008, 10:20 PM
The Fish had their starting DBs in the game in the 4th quarter. We had 2 guys at FL and SE that I have never even heard of.

I was referring to our starting wide outs. Lenny indicated strongly that they could not gain any separation whatsoever. And, if the fins were, in fact, playing man, that is not good and you can't blame it on anybody other than the WRs - or, possibly, their coaches.

FAX

MTG#10
08-23-2008, 10:20 PM
I'm surprised there isn't a "Carl Peterson lost us this game" thread .... know what i mean?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=189701

:D

KCUnited
08-23-2008, 10:20 PM
I felt no one had confidence in the Oline from the start, Croyle, Gailey, the RBs. It was like everybody on both sides of the field knew we couldn't do shit, so they attacked.

FAX
08-23-2008, 10:21 PM
Our receivers do suck balls. Its alot harder to see what they are doing on tv, at the games live its alot easier to see them.

I don't think it's too strong a descriptor to say that Lenny was disgusted with them, Mr. ChiefsCountry. Based on his reaction, one would think that the fins' D knew the routes before the snap.

FAX

milkman
08-23-2008, 10:21 PM
I think the first drive of the 2nd half was pretty good. Not spectacular, but pretty good. Also on our first drive of the game he hit our star receiver in the hands and it was dropped. A completion there would most likely result in pretty respectable gain. That alone could have set the tempo for that drive and possibly the first half. Who knows?

The thing is you have to recognize that he hasn't yet given anyone anything to show that he's really progressed.

In the pocket, he's shown a lack of awareness, and he doesn't look away from his primary receiver quick enough.

These are things he can still learn, but he hasn't yet really shown anything.

KCJohnny
08-23-2008, 10:23 PM
I was referring to our starting wide outs. Lenny indicated strongly that they could not gain any separation whatsoever. And, if the fins were, in fact, playing man, that is not good and you can't blame it on anybody other than the WRs - or, possibly, their coaches.

FAX

I missed the first half, but I don't doubt it. Also, isn't Franklin on the DL after a knee scope? I saw another great play by Maurice Price - not all our WRs looked bad.

Frankie
08-23-2008, 10:23 PM
I was referring to our starting wide outs. Lenny indicated strongly that they could not gain any separation whatsoever. And, if the fins were, in fact, playing man, that is not good and you can't blame it on anybody other than the WRs - or, possibly, their coaches.

FAX

I am starting to question if Darling is a viable starting WR2. We need our 2 to be feared almost as much as our 1.

FAX
08-23-2008, 10:23 PM
I am just curious when people are going to hold Gun responsible for the D sucking so bad.

With a brand new offense and basically a rookie QB the D needs to be at least Top 10 so we can keep the scores down. That is not going to happen as long as Gun is here.

More and more, I'm leaning that direction, Mr. dirk digler. Last time I checked, you don't need a complete "game plan" in order to tackle a running back. Somebody on the game thread said it very well, Gun's screaming isn't going to make the D any better.

FAX

Smed1065
08-23-2008, 10:24 PM
I don't think Matt Leinart at this point is a good standard to use unless you wanna use his college numbers.....as I've ALWAYS said he's in the same spot. Also his overally injury history isn't remotely as bad.


They are the same but I bet you would not kick ML out after a performance like tonight?

But would BC because of round selected?

The Chiefs drafted ML IMO but saved 45 million dollars. and a first round pick. IMO.

ML should get more time than BC? Because they both suck?

milkman
08-23-2008, 10:26 PM
I am just curious when people are going to hold Gun responsible for the D sucking so bad.

With a brand new offense and basically a rookie QB the D needs to be at least Top 10 so we can keep the scores down. That is not going to happen as long as Gun is here.

I have been bitching about Gun for years now.

Some people are starting to come around.

Tiger's Fan
08-23-2008, 10:26 PM
In better news, the Cards in front of the faiders 24-0, start of the 4th.

FAX
08-23-2008, 10:26 PM
I am starting to question if Darling is a viable starting WR2. We need our 2 to be feared almost as much as our 1.

My understanding from the radio broadcast was that the fins were doubling Tony and manning up on the WRs. A wide out HAS to get open if that's the way the D is going to play it. And, if that's the defensive scheme, the quarterback has every reasonable expectation to see some air between his receiver and the next, closest guy. But, as always, the anti-Croyles will blame him.

FAX

Mr. Arrowhead
08-23-2008, 10:28 PM
I am starting to question if Darling is a viable starting WR2. We need our 2 to be feared almost as much as our 1.
I agree, why dont they give Price a shot at WR2. He prolly looked better than anybody

Frankie
08-23-2008, 10:28 PM
The thing is you have to recognize that he hasn't yet given anyone anything to show that he's really progressed.

In the pocket, he's shown a lack of awareness, and he doesn't look away from his primary receiver quick enough.

These are things he can still learn, but he hasn't yet really shown anything.

I don't totally disagree with this. But I'm saying we don't have enough data yet to formulate a solid opinion on Croyle. Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist, but I'm seeing more positive in Croyle, than negative this year. At best I'm excited about his overall potential, and at worst I have a wait-and-see attitude.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:29 PM
The thing is you have to recognize that he hasn't yet given anyone anything to show that he's really progressed.

In the pocket, he's shown a lack of awareness, and he doesn't look away from his primary receiver quick enough.

These are things he can still learn, but he hasn't yet really shown anything.

Shh don't point that out, the same as "it's all Croyles fault" from people that don't like him comes from the other side that does like him of "Nothing is his fault" then it's the line or the RB's or the WR's.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:30 PM
Or you could say he's a complete bust that can't take in a playbook or operate an offense in an NFL game.

He's still on roster due to his paycheck and won't be on any in 2 years...

Then Croyle is a bust too then since they were drafted the same year...

Rausch
08-23-2008, 10:31 PM
Then Croyle is a bust too then since they were drafted the same year...

That would be a blockbuster argument if I felt Croyle was of the quality your Messiah was when picked.

Or at all.

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 10:31 PM
Then Croyle is a bust too then since they were drafted the same year...

:rolleyes:

Nice try.

Only 70+ picks apart...

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:33 PM
:rolleyes:

Nice try.

Only 70+ picks apart...

How many times has the line "the round he was picked in doesn't matter" spouted about on here? So it doesn't matter when it doesn't help your argument? Uh huh ok...

CupidStunt
08-23-2008, 10:33 PM
Matt Leinart is utter dogshit. For all his woes, the worst Croyle generally is is mediocre. Not 4/12, a handful of yards and 3 INTs bad.

Can we stop talking about the Cards' backup QB on this board?

FAX
08-23-2008, 10:34 PM
I don't totally disagree with this. But I'm saying we don't have enough data yet to formulate a solid opinion on Croyle. Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist, but I'm seeing more positive in Croyle, than negative this year. At best I'm excited about his overall potential, and at worst I have a wait-and-see attitude.

That's how I feel about it, Mr. Frankie. Even though he has the base talent and physical tools to play the position, nobody knows how Croyle will turn out at this point. He may be on a stretcher by game 2. Or, he may start racking up the interceptions at an intolerable rate. Who knows?

Unfortunately, the anti-Croyles would prefer to not give him a legitimate opportunity to prove himself before casting him bus-wise. It makes sense, though. If he succeeds, they can feign happiness and we'll believe they are sincere. If he fails, they can tell us how smart they are.

FAX

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:34 PM
I'm sure my SC stuff causes that....I've never even claimed Leinart is a good pro QB.

KCJohnny
08-23-2008, 10:34 PM
I agree, why dont they give Price a shot at WR2. He prolly looked better than anybody

IF Camp/PS means anything at all, Price deserves the #2 WR position.

Rausch
08-23-2008, 10:36 PM
IF Camp/PS means anything at all, Price deserves the #2 WR position.

Based on production it should be Bowe, Franklin, Price.

KCJohnny
08-23-2008, 10:38 PM
Based on production it should be Bowe, Franklin, Price.

Franklin is rehabbing from surgery, and he looked great in the limited action he saw. I am just really impressed with Price making the most of every ball thrown in his direction. Has Darling even caught a pass yet?

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 10:39 PM
How many times has the line "the round he was picked in doesn't matter" spouted about on here? So it doesn't matter when it doesn't help your argument? Uh huh ok...

Feel free to take that out of context.

The round he's taken in SHOULDN'T matter when it comes to the time a QB is given to learn and grow into the position - based on starts.

What is retarded about the way the league deals with it, is that guys like Leinart, that SHOULD already be several steps ahead of mid and late round picks, gets a longer leash.

While the mid and late round guys, who are already behind, are expected to produce immediately.

A guy drafted in the Top 10 SHOULD show you something somewhat early.

Expecting a mid-late round guy to is expecting too much, IMO.

MadMax
08-23-2008, 10:42 PM
Nope.

Can't do that.

EVERYTHING is Croyle's fault.

OL not blocking? **** you, Croyle. You suck.

WR's dropping passes? **** you, Croyle. You suck.

RB's missing the few holes they get? **** you, Croyle. You suck.

Gatorade watered down on the bench? **** you, Croyle. You suck.




SIX REGULAR SEASON STARTS.

Yet people want to treat it like he's had 20.

In terms of live game action, he's still a rookie. Mistakes WILL be made. And those mistakes will likely be magnified due to the lack of a decent OL.




Yep, and if Huard plays 1 minute this season that's a wasted minute.

KCJohnny
08-23-2008, 10:44 PM
Yep, and if Huard plays 1 minute this season that's a wasted minute.

He may be all that is left if this OL doesn't show up.

Smed1065
08-23-2008, 10:44 PM
How many times has the line "the round he was picked in doesn't matter" spouted about on here? So it doesn't matter when it doesn't help your argument? Uh huh ok...

So we need a 1st round pick like ML? To develop, I got that from your previous posting.

Maybe its just me.

FAX
08-23-2008, 10:44 PM
Yep, and if Huard plays 1 minute this season that's a wasted minute.

Is it just me, or does it look like Downfield doesn't want to take any more hits?

FAX

Tiger's Fan
08-23-2008, 10:46 PM
I'm sure my SC stuff causes that....I've never even claimed Leinart is a good pro QB.

Dude

Rausch
08-23-2008, 10:46 PM
Franklin is rehabbing from surgery, and he looked great in the limited action he saw. I am just really impressed with Price making the most of every ball thrown in his direction. Has Darling even caught a pass yet?

I was a Webb supporter but I'd axe him and Darling...

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:49 PM
Feel free to take that out of context.

The round he's taken in SHOULDN'T matter when it comes to the time a QB is given to learn and grow into the position - based on starts.

What is retarded about the way the league deals with it, is that guys like Leinart, that SHOULD already be several steps ahead of mid and late round picks, gets a longer leash.

While the mid and late round guys, who are already behind, are expected to produce immediately.

A guy drafted in the Top 10 SHOULD show you something somewhat early.

Expecting a mid-late round guy to is expecting too much, IMO.

Hey that is likely true, money issues cause all that and that's just how it is, he has this year basically as I said right now he's in the same spot Croyle is in. I don't know how that equates to me saying he's great or something.

Tiger's Fan
08-23-2008, 10:51 PM
Hey that is likely true, money issues cause all that and that's just how it is, he has this year basically as I said right now he's in the same spot Croyle is in. I don't know how that equates to me saying he's great or something.

You've been carping on his pro readiness since day one. Please, stop.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:52 PM
You've been carping on his pro readiness since day one. Please, stop.

I said he was a good PROSPECT, do you know what that word means?

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 10:54 PM
More and more, I'm leaning that direction, Mr. dirk digler. Last time I checked, you don't need a complete "game plan" in order to tackle a running back. Somebody on the game thread said it very well, Gun's screaming isn't going to make the D any better.

FAX

Yep. It has been a common theme through out Gun being here that this team can't tackle worth a shit. It is ****ing embarrassing.

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 10:55 PM
I have been bitching about Gun for years now.

Some people are starting to come around.

I was on your bandwagon last year I thought the D coaches should have all been shit canned as well just like the O coaches were.

Coach
08-23-2008, 10:56 PM
I was on your bandwagon last year I thought the D coaches should have all been shit canned as well just like the O coaches were.

Well, it looks like to me that the WHOLE coaching staff needs to be shit-canned. Yes, including special teams.

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Well, it looks like to me that the WHOLE coaching staff needs to be shit-canned. Yes, including special teams.

I totally agree. Since Herm has been here our ST's have sucked ass.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 10:59 PM
I was on your bandwagon last year I thought the D coaches should have all been shit canned as well just like the O coaches were.

Especially Tim Krumrie...

FAX
08-23-2008, 10:59 PM
Well, it looks like to me that the WHOLE coaching staff needs to be shit-canned. Yes, including special teams.

Not to burst your bubble, but I don't think shit cans come that big, Mr. Coach.

FAX

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 11:01 PM
Honestly Leinart was the probally the most pro-ready quarterback to come into the league for a long time. I think his problem is he doesnt care about it, he is still king of LA and doenst fill the need to be a stud in the NFL.

Tiger's Fan
08-23-2008, 11:05 PM
I said he was a good PROSPECT, do you know what that word means?

You've reinterated numerous times this season alone, that Lienart is considerably better than Croyle. (and no, im not going to search for the quotes)

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:08 PM
Honestly Leinart was the probally the most pro-ready quarterback to come into the league for a long time. I think his problem is he doesnt care about it, he is still king of LA and doenst fill the need to be a stud in the NFL.

That is probably partially true....he's also a player that had an elite level of coaching in the college game where as being draft in Arizona it probably wasn't the same level and he was also surrounded by a ton of talent.

Leinart is a smart guy but he isn't going to win games by himself or show his great arm. Herm probably loves Leinart because at the NFL level he is more of a game manager type than a franchise player.

And once again people take what I say completely out of context, I said that Leinart is a better prospect than Croyle which most people would probably agree with or say "who cares they both suck"

DeezNutz
08-23-2008, 11:11 PM
I'd like to know where Croyle is hiding the extra 15 pounds he supposedly put on during the off-season. Did Kelli give him a penis pump because he still looks tiny?

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 11:13 PM
Honestly Leinart was the probally the most pro-ready quarterback to come into the league for a long time. I think his problem is he doesnt care about it, he is still king of LA and doenst fill the need to be a stud in the NFL.

There was a story recently about people in the NFL concerned about SC players going pro because of the way they run their program there and the lifestyle they lead at college.

If you have noticed a huge majority of the high profile SC players drafted haven't panned out.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:15 PM
There was a story recently about people in the NFL concerned about SC players going pro because of the way they run their program there and the lifestyle they lead at college.

If you have noticed a huge majority of the high profile SC players drafted haven't panned out.

Offense not defense.......it's also the style they play. SC is a straight west coast sytem, and their QB's work with a ton of talent out there. The reason alot of them don't translate like say WR's is they get big physical guys that just bully and maul corners in the NFL that doesn't work you need speed.

The defensive players though have been good in the NFL.

Rausch
08-23-2008, 11:16 PM
That is probably partially true....he's also a player that had an elite level of coaching in the college game where as being draft in Arizona it probably wasn't the same level and he was also surrounded by a ton of talent.

Leinart is a smart guy but he isn't going to win games by himself or show his great arm.

He can't learn the playbook.

Again, he can't learn the friggen TARDS playbook.

This isn't Saunders or Martz we're talking about here. On top of that his team is abandoning him. They all talked tough to the media day one but they flat out don't want him or the greybeard there. Given the choice Warner (sans spike-headed wife outbursts) wins...

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:17 PM
leinart sux

Coach
08-23-2008, 11:19 PM
There was a story recently about people in the NFL concerned about SC players going pro because of the way they run their program there and the lifestyle they lead at college.

If you have noticed a huge majority of the high profile SC players drafted haven't panned out.

Carson Palmer panned out well though, but comparing Palmer to Leinart is like comparing apple and oranges.

Man, how awesome it would be to have a elite QB like Palmer, Brady, Manning, that you can call your own becuase you developed them and vice versa.

TEX
08-23-2008, 11:20 PM
I am one who is still on Brodie Croyle's bandwagon. With that out of the way, I have to admit he looked like crap in the first half. But let's look at the possible reasons. I am not totally dismissing that he may not be very good after all, but I think there were factors contributing to his performance tonight:

(A)- Our still learning O-line was facing a 3-4 'D' for the first time. We had all heard that Niswanger's height might give him trouble when he is lined up directly against a nose. Also the difference in blocking assignments was giving our inexperienced O-line problems. All this combined, was depriving Croyle of any reasonable protection. Not having time to scan the field and with his lack of experience, he was locking on his primary receivers and hampering his chances for effective pass plays. With the adjustments in the 2nd half, and the roll-outs we saw a better representation of Croyle's potential. That is reason number one for me to stay on his bandwagon.

(B)- Reason number two is the fact that we all knew he would have up and down games this year. This was a down game for him. Live with it. I, like many a Chiefs fan, have made a promise to myself to consider that factor this year. But unlike many of you, I didn't intend that promise to be just lip service.


Even so, Croyle does indeed suck.

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 11:21 PM
Offense not defense.......it's also the style they play. SC is a straight west coast sytem, and their QB's work with a ton of talent out there. The reason alot of them don't translate like say WR's is they get big physical guys that just bully and maul corners in the NFL that doesn't work you need speed.

The defensive players though have been good in the NFL.

What defensive players recently have been good?

It will be interesting to see how Rivers and Ellis fare in the next few years.

TEX
08-23-2008, 11:22 PM
I totally agree. Since Herm has been here our ST's have sucked ass.

Along with the offense and defense. :hmmm:

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 11:23 PM
Carson Palmer panned out well though, but comparing Palmer to Leinart is like comparing apple and oranges.

Man, how awesome it would be to have a elite QB like Palmer, Brady, Manning, that you can call your own becuase you developed them and vice versa.

Yep. So far Bush hasn't come close to what people thought he would be.

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 11:27 PM
For as much talent as USC has, they havent produced in the pros. The LB from Seattle and Polamulu are about it other than Palmer.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:28 PM
What defensive players recently have been good?

It will be interesting to see how Rivers and Ellis fare in the next few years.

Do you want the list of SC players in the NFL? Now I think Rivers will be a great player but we won't count him yet...

Troy Polamalu
Lofa Tatupu
Mike Patterson

They've had alot of really good talent taken in the last 2 drafts but I won't count them because they haven't played enough to be counted as good by posters here I'm sure.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:29 PM
For as much talent as USC has, they havent produced in the pros. The LB from Seattle and Polamulu are about it other than Palmer.

Alot of those guys were good college players, they've ramped up into the real top notch recruiting NFL factory levels over the last 2 NFL drafts...which strings back to 5 or 6 recruiting classes ago......they have no less than 4 first round picks on their defense right now.

Tiger's Fan
08-23-2008, 11:31 PM
For as much talent as USC has, they havent produced in the pros. The LB from Seattle and Polamulu are about it other than Palmer.

Seymore and Seau, though they're old as dirt. Not very many good Trojan Defensive players to speak of though. And offensively, they're pretty bad, sans Palmer.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:32 PM
Richard Seymour went to Georgia...

For alot of the SC run they were full of guys who were great college players and nothing more, now all the NFL talent has been seen the last 2 drafts and the ones coming forward, that dates back to 6 years ago...you don't just walk into to what situation SC was and pull NFL talent players right away.

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 11:32 PM
Do you want the list of SC players in the NFL? Now I think Rivers will be a great player but we won't count him yet...

Troy Polamalu
Lofa Tatupu
Mike Patterson

They've had alot of really good talent taken in the last 2 drafts but I won't count them because they haven't played enough to be counted as good by posters here I'm sure.

Those are definitely good players thanks.

Rausch
08-23-2008, 11:33 PM
Do you want the list of SC players in the NFL? Now I think Rivers will be a great player but we won't count him yet...

Troy Polamalu
Lofa Tatupu
Mike Patterson

They've had alot of really good talent taken in the last 2 drafts but I won't count them because they haven't played enough to be counted as good by posters here I'm sure.

I want to make a bet that when that walker-using-QB for the Tards trots out about week 8 looking like teh Paperby molester from Family Guy and they do the BS background yammer before the sunday night game you'll GAY-RON-TEE me they won't be talking up how much they lover Warner and his leadership.

IE: He knows the playbook and where to throw the ****ing ball...

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 11:33 PM
I was just using the Pete Carroll years. And it was McGinnest not Seymor.

Tiger's Fan
08-23-2008, 11:34 PM
Richard Seymour went to Georgia...

For alot of the SC run they were full of guys who were great college players and nothing more, now all the NFL talent has been seen the last 2 drafts and the ones coming forward, that dates back to 6 years ago...you don't just walk into to what situation SC was and pull NFL talent players right away.

Sorry, meant McGinest.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:35 PM
Ok honest question, did Matt Leinart bang your g/f.....I love when people hate players for really no rational reason. Matt Leinart has nothing to do with the Chiefs in anyway shape or form other than he was the QB of my favorite college team. And people bring him up to me all the god damn time...yes it's my fault he was a great college player yet has struggled to this point.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:36 PM
I was just using the Pete Carroll years. And it was McGinnest not Seymor.

Look what it's at now, obviously I didn't count the last 2 drafts cause that's recent but that's when the real NFL talent he recruited started to show, you'll likely see numerous SC first round picks every year now...2002 was when they started to get real top notch 1st round NFL caliber recruits and it's ramped up since then.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:38 PM
thats because the players get PAID

Tiger's Fan
08-23-2008, 11:39 PM
Ok honest question, did Matt Leinart bang your g/f.....I love when people hate players for really no rational reason. Matt Leinart has nothing to do with the Chiefs in anyway shape or form other than he was the QB of my favorite college team. And people bring him up to me all the god damn time...yes it's my fault he was a great college player yet has struggled to this point.

He was overrated in college. Played in a weak ass conference. Got beat by Vince Young in the big game. Has, since entering the league been a prima-donna. They made such a big deal about his falling in the draft, when apparently, better minds knew well enough. Shall I go on?

dirk digler
08-23-2008, 11:43 PM
.yes it's my fault he was a great college player yet has struggled to this point.

We know we also blame you for Reggie Bush sucking

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:45 PM
reggie bush SUX

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 11:46 PM
I hate USC as much as anybody but do you guys realize how much talent is in California? When Nebraska and Colorado were really really good they made a living out there. Combine the girls in LA, weather, and LA itself there is no reason why USC and UCLA shouldnt be good.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:46 PM
We know we also blame you for Reggie Bush sucking

People think he sucks because they thought he was something he wasn't....Bush is a versatile mismatch back. You can't run him up the ass 30 times a game you just can't even SC didn't do that to him.

Bush is about creating mismatches and getting touches in all phases of the game and all purpose yards, it's his draft pick that cause people to freak. He'll likely play in the league alot longer than "work horse" backs aswell.

Bush is not a franchise carry a team RB, but he's a versatile weapon that can give a defense a huge amount of headaches and creates plays for himself and other people.

He's a role player, the ultimate role player if you will but people who thought he was gonna be LT or be run like LJ or something were smoking crack he was never even that in college.

Rausch
08-23-2008, 11:46 PM
Ok honest question, did Matt Leinart bang your g/f.....I love when people hate players for really no rational reason. Matt Leinart has nothing to do with the Chiefs in anyway shape or form other than he was the QB of my favorite college team. And people bring him up to me all the god damn time...yes it's my fault he was a great college player yet has struggled to this point.

You pimped him and he sux. Really, we both know he sux. You let it go and I will.

2nd, I live in the middle of nowhere-Mo. I pretty much NEVAR get any NFL inside info but sometimes a fella' lucks out.

There are 3 things I know. I don't know them 3rd hand, I KNOW THEM.

1) Eric Warfield likes pain killers and booze.

2) Greg Wesley doesn't like paying child support and likes cops who bust him for it even less.

3) Your boy sucks and can't learn his playbook.

These are things I know and if a player reads this and brings a lawyer I can back it up. If you post it these days you better be able to, just in case...

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 11:47 PM
We know we also blame you for Reggie Bush sucking

I wouldn't go as far as to say he sucks, but he's definitely not worth anywhere near where his draft position suggests he should be.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:47 PM
He was overrated in college. Played in a weak ass conference. Got beat by Vince Young in the big game. Has, since entering the league been a prima-donna. They made such a big deal about his falling in the draft, when apparently, better minds knew well enough. Shall I go on?

Ask Oklahoma how overrated he was...them 55 points were nothin..and we lost to Texas because half our defense was injured all year, it wasn't Leinarts fault the defense was full of freshman playing in injured players spots.

Texas won with one of the best college players of all time in Vince Young hats off to them, wasn't anything to do with Leinart.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:48 PM
You pimped him and he sux. Really, we both know he sux. You let it go and I will.

2nd, I live in the middle of nowhere-Mo. I pretty much NEVAR get any NFL inside info but sometimes a fella' lucks out.

There are 3 things I know. I don't know them 3rd hand, I KNOW THEM.

1) Eric Warfield likes pain killers and booze.

2) Greg Wesley doesn't like paying child support and likes cops who bust him for it even less.

3) Your boy sucks and can't learn his playbook.

These are things I know and if a player reads this and brings a lawyer I can back it up. If you post it these days you better be able to, just in case...

mecca LOVES THE GUY he dosen't realize he sux

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:48 PM
I wouldn't go as far as to say he sucks, but he's definitely not worth anywhere near where his draft position suggests he should be.

That's the only reason people think he's a bust where he was picked, but every team in the league would like to have him, having his speed and versatility is a great weapon to have and allows you to do alot of things.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:49 PM
mecca LOVES THE GUY he dosen't realize he sux

Did I once say he was a good NFL player?

He wasn't nor is he ever going to be Carson Palmer or resemble that in talent, Carson Palmer is a top notch NFL QB, even developed at his best Leinart is a game manager he doesn't remotely possess the tools of a Palmer.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:49 PM
bush already is injury prone you think he'll play a long time???rofl

Hoover
08-23-2008, 11:49 PM
This was my fear. I was all for giving Croyle a shot at the job, but I also thought we needed to sign a younger vet who has some experience. Haurd isn't going to get us anywhere either, but I'd sure like to have someone like JP Losman waiting in the wings.

I'm frustrated

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 11:50 PM
That's the only reason people think he's a bust where he was picked, but every team in the league would like to have him, having his speed and versatility is a great weapon to have and allows you to do alot of things.

Correction:

Every team in the league would love to have him, provided they didn't have to give up the 2nd overall pick in the draft to get him.

You can't waste a high draft pick on what amounts to not much more than a 3rd down back.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:50 PM
what has palmer actually done?

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:50 PM
bush already is injury prone you think he'll play a long time???rofl

Getting hurt one time is injury prone?

I guess Brodie Croyle is dead then.

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 11:51 PM
what has palmer actually done?

I know you guys like to rag on Mecca about the USC stuff but come on Palmer is one of the best QB's in the NFL. He is behind Manning and Brady but thats it. Bengals are just a piss poor excuse for a franchise.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:51 PM
Correction:

Every team in the league would love to have him, provided they didn't have to give up the 2nd overall pick in the draft to get him.

You can't waste a high draft pick on what amounts to not much more than a 3rd down back.

I agree with that you know me I'd never take a RB top 5, I don't believe Bush is this awful player people around here act like he is...he was overdrafted that isn't his problem.

He is exactly what I thought he'd be.......I don't know why people expected more even SC didn't use him that way.

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 11:52 PM
I agree with that you know me I'd never take a RB top 5, I don't believe Bush is this awful player people around here act like he is...he was overdrafted that isn't his problem.

He is exactly what I thought he'd be.......I don't know why people expected more even SC didn't use him that way.

Blame ESPN and media.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:52 PM
I know you guys like to rag on Mecca about the USC stuff but come on Palmer is one of the best QB's in the NFL. He is behind Manning and Brady but thats it. Bengals are just a piss poor excuse for a franchise.

Thank you, personally anyone who acts like Palmer isn't good loses all credibility easily one of the best QB's in the league.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:52 PM
no no bush just sux sorry but the guy is a bust.


btw a bust means that you dont play up to where you were drafted hence bush is and always will be a bust

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 11:53 PM
Blame ESPN and media.

Bingo.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:53 PM
lets see palmer has 2 PRO BOWL wideouts do ya think that helps him out

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:53 PM
Blame ESPN and media.

I think all purpose yards should be his thing not rushing yards....hell the guy caught 100 balls as a rookie.....

I think he should get 15-20 touches in a game in return/running/receiving touches and be used as a decoy to open up other guys.....he's a guy that could put up 2000 all purpose yards yet people would still think he's a bust.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:54 PM
no no bush just sux sorry but the guy is a bust.


btw a bust means that you dont play up to where you were drafted hence bush is and always will be a bust

I see why Warpath was arguing with you the way he was earlier.......you argue like you're 10.

OMG I'M RIGHT CARSON PALMER SUCKS OMGS!!!

Coach
08-23-2008, 11:55 PM
I agree with that you know me I'd never take a RB top 5, I don't believe Bush is this awful player people around here act like he is...he was overdrafted that isn't his problem.

He is exactly what I thought he'd be.......I don't know why people expected more even SC didn't use him that way.

Then the Texans made the right choice in selecting Williams over Bush and Young, IMHO.

The Bad Guy
08-23-2008, 11:56 PM
Matt Leinart is utter dogshit. For all his woes, the worst Croyle generally is is mediocre. Not 4/12, a handful of yards and 3 INTs bad.

Can we stop talking about the Cards' backup QB on this board?

Leinart can't progress with 2 all-world WRs on his team.

Leinart might be the only starting QB right now WORSE than Brodie Croyle.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:56 PM
argue like im 10? i just said why i think he sux

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:56 PM
Then the Texans made the right choice in selecting Williams over Bush and Young, IMHO.

Well yea a DE is more valuable than a RB and I've never liked Young as a pro prospect.

Rausch
08-23-2008, 11:57 PM
Did I once say he was a good NFL player?

He wasn't nor is he ever going to be Carson Palmer or resemble that in talent,

I'll stop you there.

I do think he has the talent. He's very talented.

Carson Palmer is a top notch NFL QB, even developed at his best Leinart is a game manager he doesn't remotely possess the tools of a Palmer.

There is where we agree.

He's being asked to manage an explosive offense with a Steve Deberg mindset.

I like Deberg, don't get me wrong. He's still one of my favorite Chief's QB's.

He just hasn't figured out to grasp step 1 before moving on to step 4. He needs to come out like McNair and he's trying to bullhorn out like a Manning...

The Bad Guy
08-23-2008, 11:57 PM
Thank you, personally anyone who acts like Palmer isn't good loses all credibility easily one of the best QB's in the league.

I think Palmer is a very overrated QB who gets a lot of love from people who don't watch Bengals games.

I don't think he's top 5 in the NFL.

He's still very good though.

Mecca
08-23-2008, 11:57 PM
argue like im 10? i just said why i think he sux

You are trying to argue that Carson Palmer isn't good.....that alone makes you pretty stupid.

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 11:58 PM
Then the Texans made the right choice in selecting Williams over Bush and Young, IMHO.

Yet, got blasted for it.

Look at the Top 10 in that draft.

Only Williams and AJ Hawk have even resembled Top 10 picks.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:58 PM
most places have palmer rated as like the 9-10th best qb, 20 int's last year. the guy has 2 probowlers and still isnt ranked top3 in the league.
look we all know that you're a usc homer get over it

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2008, 11:58 PM
Leinart can't progress with 2 all-world WRs on his team.

Leinart might be the only starting QB right now WORSE than Brodie Croyle.

Thanks!

Signed,

Kyle Orton and Tavaris Jackson

Coach
08-23-2008, 11:59 PM
Yet, got blasted for it.

Look at the Top 10 in that draft.

Only Williams and AJ Hawk have even resembled Top 10 picks.

IIRC, I did made a comment something about that I didn't think Bush was capable of being a "full-time" RB in the NFL becuase I didn't think he was capable of carrying the football 20-25 times a game.

He's like Dante Hall, only more taller, IMHO.

JASONSAUTO
08-23-2008, 11:59 PM
You are trying to argue that Carson Palmer isn't good.....that alone makes you pretty stupid.

read my last post

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2008, 11:59 PM
I think Palmer is a very overrated QB who gets a lot of love from people who don't watch Bengals games.

I don't think he's top 5 in the NFL.

He's still very good though.

I had him on my fantasy team the last two years, I watched him quite a bit. I think its more the Bengals organization than Palmer.

Mecca
08-24-2008, 12:00 AM
most places have palmer rated as like the 9-10th best qb, 20 int's last year. the guy has 2 probowlers and still isnt ranked top3 in the league.
look we all know that you're a usc homer get over it

Cause we all know 1 year is the basis of an entire career of who the best QB's are.

Really if you are going to argue Palmer isn't good, just go away, it's a retarded argument that no one is going to agree with you on.

Tell me Leinart is shitty atleast that's true, but going to the Palmer card is ****in stupid and makes you look like a complete dipshit.

Rausch
08-24-2008, 12:00 AM
Yet, got blasted for it.

Look at the Top 10 in that draft.

Only Williams and AJ Hawk have even resembled Top 10 picks.

Makes our pick in that draft look pretty good...

Mecca
08-24-2008, 12:01 AM
read my last post

Find me 1 person that agrees with you on this. just 1.

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 12:02 AM
Cause we all know 1 year is the basis of an entire career of who the best QB's are.

Really if you are going to argue Palmer isn't good, just go away, it's a retarded argument that no one is going to agree with you on.

Tell me Leinart is shitty atleast that's true, but going to the Palmer card is ****in stupid and makes you look like a complete dipshit.

i would take palmer over what we've got now but no i dont think he's an all time great only you do homer

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 12:03 AM
I think Palmer is a very overrated QB who gets a lot of love from people who don't watch Bengals games.

I don't think he's top 5 in the NFL.

He's still very good though.

here you go mecca there's 1

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 12:03 AM
Makes our pick in that draft look pretty good...

Yep.

There's not much to ooh-and-ahh over before you get to Cromartie.

The majority of good R1 picks that year came in the back half.

Mecca
08-24-2008, 12:04 AM
Warpath I apologize for what you had to deal with the other day....I know feel your pain. I'm now going to get a sledgehammer so this guy can relate to LeCharles Bentley.

Mecca
08-24-2008, 12:04 AM
here you go mecca there's 1

Dude he said Palmer is very good, you are acting like he sucks.

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 12:05 AM
Warpath I apologize for what you had to deal with the other day....I know feel your pain. I'm now going to get a sledgehammer so this guy can relate to LeCharles Bentley.

hey asshole i gave you what you wanted and now what. dont threaten me either that puts you in noballs' category

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 12:07 AM
Dude he said Palmer is very good, you are acting like he sucks.

was joking when i said he sucks hence the i would take him quote but no hes not as great as you make him out to be what did you quit reading this thread

Mecca
08-24-2008, 12:07 AM
hey asshole i gave you what you wanted and now what. dont threaten me either that puts you in noballs' category

You're in the no brains category, I honestly have no issue with anyone on this site but you are trying my patience you honestly remind me of a child who rams their fingers in their ears.

I've never ignored anyone on this site but good lord, I'd feel like my brain cells might live if I'd ignore you.

Mecca
08-24-2008, 12:08 AM
Excuse me for anyone that frequently is on here and reads my post how often do I talk about Carson Palmer or how great he is?

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 12:25 AM
Excuse me for anyone that frequently is on here and reads my post how often do I talk about Carson Palmer or how great he is?

hey i stated my opinion and opinions arent wrong right no right and wrong.
im just saying that the guy you brought up isnt a top 3 qb which you said he was, in my opinion

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 12:26 AM
also read post#140

Count Alex's Wins
08-24-2008, 12:32 AM
Could be worse, MECCA:

Cardinals QB Matt Leinart (http://www.nfl.com/players/mattleinart/profile?id=LEI453701) struggles: Coach Ken Whisenhunt has maintained an open competition at quarterback, and Leinart had a rough outing at Oakland where he has struggled during his career. Leinart completed only 4 of 12 passes and threw three interceptions. Backup Kurt Warner (http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511) was solid in his cameo.

Tiger's Fan
08-24-2008, 12:41 AM
You're in the no brains category, I honestly have no issue with anyone on this site but you are trying my patience you honestly remind me of a child who rams their fingers in their ears.

I've never ignored anyone on this site but good lord, I'd feel like my brain cells might live if I'd ignore you.

I give you alot of flack about Lienart, and SC. Hell, everybody does. But you always maintain your composer, never slinging the name calling bullshit. I don't always agree with your assertions about certain players, but I have to respect ya bro.

CosmicPal
08-24-2008, 12:43 AM
But you always maintain your composer

You got to respect a guy who has his own composer. That's pretty cool.

So, Mecca is going to be putting out a classical piano album soon?

Mecca
08-24-2008, 12:45 AM
You got to respect a guy who has his own composer. That's pretty cool.

So, Mecca is going to be putting out a classical piano album soon?

I play my own instrument.

Tiger's Fan
08-24-2008, 12:46 AM
You got to respect a guy who has his own composer. That's pretty cool.

So, Mecca is going to be putting out a classical piano album soon?

edit: composure*

Tiger's Fan
08-24-2008, 12:48 AM
Getting this post whoring thing down...

ChiefsCountry
08-24-2008, 12:48 AM
I play my own instrument.

Well you do toot your own horn quite a bit. :D

ChiefsLV
08-24-2008, 12:49 AM
Arguing about this is pointless. Croyle is going to get all season to prove himself whether people like it or not. Who else are they going to put in there? Hutard, Thigpen?

DTchiefs58
08-24-2008, 12:49 AM
Regardless this is 2 weeks in a row that it will be 3rd and long and he will just check down. The line play from last yr may have ruined him for good.

Smed1065
08-24-2008, 12:50 AM
Ok honest question, did Matt Leinart bang your g/f.....I love when people hate players for really no rational reason. Matt Leinart has nothing to do with the Chiefs in anyway shape or form other than he was the QB of my favorite college team. And people bring him up to me all the god damn time...yes it's my fault he was a great college player yet has struggled to this point.

And goes against the grain of round 1 pick? To be a stud.

but he has played in the NFL.

Smed1065
08-24-2008, 12:50 AM
I play my own instrument.

TMI.

Smed1065
08-24-2008, 12:51 AM
Getting this post whoring thing down...

Seems so. The DC is Good for something.

Buehler445
08-24-2008, 01:01 AM
Bottom line is that Croyle is still green. Really, anyone that wasn't prepared to deal with a bad game or 6, is genuinely ****ING STUPID.

If he blows, fine. Point taken, but after 3 PRESEASON games? Come the **** on. Sit back and root for the kid. Because honestly, if he is not servicable, we are up shit creek without a paddle. So calm down, hope the kid develops, and enjoy football.

Frankie
08-24-2008, 09:44 AM
I was a Webb supporter but I'd axe him and Darling...

Webb did alright.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 10:52 AM
The chiefs are so cursed, that i almost believe that Croyle will suck this year, we will release him, we will draft a QB in the first round, who will be a bust, while Brodie is a Super Bowl Winning QB.

Unless he "Dilfers" his way to a SuperBowl, that will never happen.

No, wait, he isn't anywhere near as good as Dilfer. Scratch that. It will never happen.

damaticous
08-24-2008, 11:02 AM
Croyle looked like shit tonight, he'd tell you himself.

He'd probably also remind you that if you re-watch the game that you'd see bad o-line blocking, receivers running the wrong routed, and even one or two receivers not looking for the pass (on the interception there was 1 receiver about 5-7 yards downfield of the interception and not even looking).

He's not god and can't make the receivers and linemen do their jobs.

I think he CAN be a good QB if given the chance, but so far since his time in KC, he hasn't been given a good chance. I think if he was behind the o-line we had a few years ago he'd be doing a lot better than he is now.

only time will tell if he will be the QB for the Chiefs franchise.

DeepSouth
08-24-2008, 11:05 AM
He'd probably also remind you that if you re-watch the game that you'd see bad o-line blocking, receivers running the wrong routed, and even one or two receivers not looking for the pass (on the interception there was 1 receiver about 5-7 yards downfield of the interception and not even looking).

He's not god and can't make the receivers and linemen do their jobs.

I think he CAN be a good QB if given the chance, but so far since his time in KC, he hasn't been given a good chance. I think if he was behind the o-line we had a few years ago he'd be doing a lot better than he is now.

only time will tell if he will be the QB for the Chiefs franchise.

I concur. Early in the game I saw Bowe drop a pass and Croyle constantly getting harrassed. He spent most of the night running for his life on pass plays. He also had to throw a couple away versus taking the sack.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 11:10 AM
The recievers were not getting open at all on those 3rd and long dumpoffs. The couple of times he had time to throw downfield, no one was open. The 2 throws of his that deserve criticism are the one to Bowe that he threw late down the sideline when Bowe was open and the one inside the 5 where he didn't even give Bowe a chance to make a play.

picasso
08-24-2008, 11:24 AM
Bottom line is that Croyle is still green. Really, anyone that wasn't prepared to deal with a bad game or 6, is genuinely ****ING STUPID.

If he blows, fine. Point taken, but after 3 PRESEASON games? Come the **** on. Sit back and root for the kid. Because honestly, if he is not servicable, we are up shit creek without a paddle. So calm down, hope the kid develops, and enjoy football.

Croyle hasn't won shit! PERIOD!!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!
After 3 preseason games and half of last year.
I am sick of you guys...well lets give the guy an opportunity.
Frickin stupid! He doesn't have it. He couldn't hold Trent Greens jock strap.
Which you will find out in the next game.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 11:28 AM
Croyle hasn't won shit! PERIOD!!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!
After 3 preseason games and half of last year.
I am sick of you guys...well lets give the guy an opportunity.
Frickin stupid! He doesn't have it. He couldn't hold Trent Greens jock strap.
Which you will find out in the next game.

So, are you advocating starting Damon Huard this year then??? Because, Croyle has this year to prove himself and if you NFL caliber QB evaluators are right, we can always take a QB in the draft next year if he does suck. By the way Trent was pretty much considered a joke his first year here.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 11:30 AM
If W/L record was the sole determining factor as to whether a young QB "has it" then I guess Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning should have been cut in their second year...

Football is a TEAM sport.

Laying it all on the QB is retarded.

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:37 AM
Carson Palmer panned out well though, but comparing Palmer to Leinart is like comparing apple and oranges.

Man, how awesome it would be to have a elite QB like Palmer, Brady, Manning, that you can call your own becuase you developed them and vice versa.

I was a Palmer advocate for us all through his college career. But he underachieved through his junior year and was already called, on this very bb, a bust. Then he broke out in his senior year to the point of being the first player drafted. We had no chance of getting him with our annual mediocre record. OH THE STARS!!!!!:mad:

Bearcat
08-24-2008, 11:38 AM
Croyle hasn't won shit! PERIOD!!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!
After 3 preseason games and half of last year.
I am sick of you guys...well lets give the guy an opportunity.
Frickin stupid! He doesn't have it. He couldn't hold Trent Greens jock strap.
Which you will find out in the next game.

I hope this post is TiC... :doh!:

Is that Trent Green's jock strap when he was throwing for 4000 yards a season because of a great scheme, receivers who got open, a running game, and the best O-Line in the NFL? ...or the Trent Green everyone bashed, when he couldn't get anything done because of an awful offensive line and receivers that couldn't get open within those two seconds before getting sacked?


half of last year .... that's good stuff LMAO

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 11:38 AM
If W/L record was the sole determining factor as to whether a young QB "has it" then I guess Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning should have been cut in their second year...

Football is a TEAM sport.

Laying it all on the QB is retarded.

It is easier to say BRODIE SUX though

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:38 AM
Even so, Croyle does indeed suck.

At least yours is only a post and not a separate thread.

gblowfish
08-24-2008, 11:39 AM
Got news for ya.
Brodie Croyle Sucks.

It is true because it is a fact.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 11:42 AM
I hope this post is TiC... :doh!:

Is that Trent Green's jock strap when he was throwing for 4000 yards a season because of a great scheme, receivers who got open, a running game, and the best O-Line in the NFL? ...or the Trent Green everyone bashed, when he couldn't get anything done because of an awful offensive line and receivers that couldn't get open within those two seconds before getting sacked?


half of last year .... that's good stuff LMAO

Imagine that...Trent's play improved once the personnel around him did.

Bearcat
08-24-2008, 11:53 AM
Imagine that...Trent's play improved once the personnel around him did.

Just like I said in another thread last night... apparently there are no 'good quarterbacks', they're just all products of good systems. Hell, look at what happens when Peyton Manning doesn't get any protection or his receivers don't get open. He sucks. He wouldn't be a starting QB if he was on a team that didn't have a good offensive line or good receivers.


;)

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 11:55 AM
some make chicken salad out of chicken... well how did that work out for him?

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:55 AM
Arguing about this is pointless. Croyle is going to get all season to prove himself whether people like it or not. Who else are they going to put in there? Hutard, Thigpen?EXACTLY. But please don't start ten threads after each of his incompletions. That's all I'm asking. It's getting real old. Croyle is our guy, at least for this season, and the best scenario for the Chiefs is that he takes the year to become a solid QB. I'm hoping that the latter will be true.

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:57 AM
Bottom line is that Croyle is still green. Really, anyone that wasn't prepared to deal with a bad game or 6, is genuinely ****ING STUPID.

If he blows, fine. Point taken, but after 3 PRESEASON games? Come the **** on. Sit back and root for the kid. Because honestly, if he is not servicable, we are up shit creek without a paddle. So calm down, hope the kid develops, and enjoy football.Yep.

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:59 AM
He'd probably also remind you that if you re-watch the game that you'd see bad o-line blocking, receivers running the wrong routed, and even one or two receivers not looking for the pass (on the interception there was 1 receiver about 5-7 yards downfield of the interception and not even looking).

He's not god and can't make the receivers and linemen do their jobs.

He can't throw them and catch'em too. Even Grbac couldn't.

damaticous
08-24-2008, 12:44 PM
Just like I said in another thread last night... apparently there are no 'good quarterbacks', they're just all products of good systems. Hell, look at what happens when Peyton Manning doesn't get any protection or his receivers don't get open. He sucks. He wouldn't be a starting QB if he was on a team that didn't have a good offensive line or good receivers.


;)

True. Payton would suck here just as bad as Croyle.

Everyone would be calling for his head too.

go bowe
08-24-2008, 01:09 PM
I'd like to know where Croyle is hiding the extra 15 pounds he supposedly put on during the off-season. Did Kelli give him a penis pump because he still looks tiny?isn't croyle roughly the same size as montana?

Nightfyre
08-24-2008, 01:27 PM
I am amused by this entire thread.

a) Carson Palmer is a top 5 QB in the NFL, no doubt.
b) Brodie Croyle had one bad game in the preseason and the planet goes bananas.
c) Even Carson Palmer has bad games. And what has he won? Jack shit.

My point? The impact of the QB is vastly overrated. Football is a team sport. This team is green and they played like it. It should come as no surprise.

go bowe
08-24-2008, 01:37 PM
green?

have they all turned into kermit clones?

is that why they can't tackle?

Baby Lee
08-24-2008, 01:41 PM
The recievers were not getting open at all on those 3rd and long dumpoffs. The couple of times he had time to throw downfield, no one was open. The 2 throws of his that deserve criticism are the one to Bowe that he threw late down the sideline when Bowe was open and the one inside the 5 where he didn't even give Bowe a chance to make a play.

Just finished the replay, and those are the only two I thought he executed poorly. A TON more piss poor running plays than anything Croyle did badly.


Oh, and who is 83? Dude ran right past the ball carrier about 6 yards into the backfield, seemingly unaware that the QB has the option of handing the ball off.

RibKing67
08-24-2008, 01:41 PM
I am amused by this entire thread.

a) Carson Palmer is a top 5 QB in the NFL, no doubt.
b) Brodie Croyle had one bad game in the preseason and the planet goes bananas.
c) Even Carson Palmer has bad games. And what has he won? Jack shit.

My point? The impact of the QB is vastly overrated. Football is a team sport. This team is green and they played like it. It should come as no surprise.

Don't let Mecca hear you say this.....

Your right IMO the team as a whole did not play well but as usual Brodie is taking the blame for not covering a punt return and stepping out at the 3 on a kickoff return and for the blown coverage on the TD and and and......

Baby Lee
08-24-2008, 01:43 PM
I hope this post is TiC... :doh!:

Is that Trent Green's jock strap when he was throwing for 4000 yards a season because of a great scheme, receivers who got open, a running game, and the best O-Line in the NFL? ...or the Trent Green everyone bashed, when he couldn't get anything done because of an awful offensive line and receivers that couldn't get open within those two seconds before getting sacked?


half of last year .... that's good stuff LMAO

That guy was TrINT Green, different guy altogether.

J Diddy
08-24-2008, 01:46 PM
That guy was TrINT Green, different guy altogether.


:doh!:

dj56dt58
08-24-2008, 02:37 PM
Croyle has to learn to get the ball out quicker..when he gets rid of it, he hits his recievers..just gotta get the ball out sooner

He has it better off than most young qbs..hes got D Bowe and Tony G to chuck it too

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 03:01 PM
Croyle has to learn to get the ball out quicker..when he gets rid of it, he hits his recievers..just gotta get the ball out sooner

He has it better off than most young qbs..hes got D Bowe and Tony G to chuck it too

So, would you rather have him get rid of the ball quick, even if his receivers are covered, risking an interception?

Or would you rather he buy himself more time to give the WR a chance to get open, then throw the ball away if nothing's there?

He's not getting rid of the ball quickly for two reasons:

The WR are NOT getting open downfield. This is why he's dumping the ball off more often than not.

The OL isn't giving him enough time to even complete his drop, in some cases.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 03:30 PM
The WR are NOT getting open downfield. This is why he's dumping the ball off more often than not.

The OL isn't giving him enough time to even complete his drop, in some cases.

And he had to sleep with a pea under his mattress, and shortly before each game he is captured and then released by the North Vietnamese but only after they shove bamboo under his fingernails, and Kathy Bates broke his ankles because Croyle is her favorite author, and then Tonya Harding hit him in the knee with a pipe, and then Hannibal Lector ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

I was just listing some more lame excuses for you.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 04:02 PM
And he had to sleep with a pea under his mattress, and shortly before each game he is captured and then released by the North Vietnamese but only after they shove bamboo under his fingernails, and Kathy Bates broke his ankles because Croyle is her favorite author, and then Tonya Harding hit him in the knee with a pipe, and then Hannibal Lector ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

I was just listing some more lame excuses for you.

You've just reached the KCChiefsFan88 level of dumbassery.

Congratulations.

Feel free to continue to gloss over facts to support your bias against him.

FAX
08-24-2008, 04:03 PM
I just heard on the radio that Brodie Croyle is in jail. Apparently, he was signing autographs at a children's hospital and hung on to one of the kids' toy footballs so long, they thought he was stealing it and arrested him.

FAX

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 04:31 PM
You've just reached the KCChiefsFan88 level of dumbassery.

Congratulations.

Feel free to continue to gloss over facts to support your bias against him.

STFU

So, I am glossing over facts? What facts? Here is a FACT for you...Croyle has never won an NFL game.

We'll see if you are still running your mouth the last week of December. And I am not biased, he just isn't any good.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 04:37 PM
STFU

So, I am glossing over facts? What facts? Here is a FACT for you...Croyle has never won an NFL game.

We'll see if you are still running your mouth the last week of December. And I am not biased, he just isn't any good.

What facts?

They've been pointed out numerous times.

Sure Croyle's never won a NFL game. Troy Aikman lost his first ELEVEN starts.

Guess he sucks too?

"I'm not biased, he's just not any good."

And you can tell that from 6 starts? Nah, you're not biased...

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 04:44 PM
What facts?

They've been pointed out numerous times.

Sure Croyle's never won a NFL game. Troy Aikman lost his first ELEVEN starts.

Guess he sucks too?

"I'm not biased, he's just not any good."

And you can tell that from 6 starts? Nah, you're not biased...

What facts? And if you think Croyle will ever be as good as Aikman, you are dumber than midnight vulture.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 04:47 PM
What facts? And if you think Croyle will ever be as good as Aikman, you are dumber than midnight vulture.

I highly doubt he'll ever be anywhere near as good as Aikman.

Unlike you, however, I'm willing to give him more than SIX ****ING starts to find out.

(Ironically, Aikman's OL was piss-poor as well, and his receiving corp struggled to get open his rookie year...)

DeezNutz
08-24-2008, 04:48 PM
Guess he sucks too?

"I'm not biased, he's just not any good."

And you can tell that from 6 starts? Nah, you're not biased...

I'm not taking sides in this exchange, but do you really think we need to see a QB play for a full season or even longer to judge his merits accurately? Though his team was losing, for example, Aikman showed signs that made one never really doubt he'd ultimately be successful.

Wins and losses not withstanding (doesn't matter, IMO), I believe we'll have a definite sense of whether or not Croyle CAN be the guy by the midpoint of this season.

Bearcat
08-24-2008, 04:52 PM
STFU

So, I am glossing over facts? What facts? Here is a FACT for you...Croyle has never won an NFL game.

We'll see if you are still running your mouth the last week of December. And I am not biased, he just isn't any good.

I don't know if they're "facts", but there are some pretty obvious statements you're glossing over, such as "football is a team sport" and "quarterbacks need things like more than 2 seconds to throw, receivers that can get open before the pocket collapses... and a running game helps, too".

Trent Green and Marc Bulger are two good examples off the top of my head... we know Trent turned back into "Trint" a couple of years ago because of the offensive line, and look at what Bulger did last year without an offensive line or running game.

Running our mouth about what? I haven't seen any posts that say "Croyle is going to be a star".... and if he doesn't do well this season, maybe it's because he sucks, but maybe it's because the team around him sucks, too.

Besides, aren't we all rooting for the same thing, which isn't "being right about the QB sucking".... yeah, you get a prize if you're right.... more losing. :rolleyes:

King_Chief_Fan
08-24-2008, 04:53 PM
What facts?

They've been pointed out numerous times.

Sure Croyle's never won a NFL game. Troy Aikman lost his first ELEVEN starts.

Guess he sucks too?

"I'm not biased, he's just not any good."

And you can tell that from 6 starts? Nah, you're not biased...

9 starts............0-9 record.......oh wait...preseason doesn't count and last year doesn't either because it was a bad o line. Built in excuses every year....
how can you say biased? based on what has been seen in 9 games he has not shown any indication of being an NFL QB no matter how many excuses you build for him.
Tell us what you have seen?

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 04:54 PM
Though his team was losing, for example, Aikman showed signs that made one never really doubt he'd ultimately be successful.

Wins and losses not withstanding (doesn't matter, IMO), I believe we'll have a definite sense of whether or not Croyle CAN be the guy by the midpoint of this season.


For me, this is exactly why I don't like Croyle at all. There is not one single thing he does that makes me think he belongs in the NFL.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 04:55 PM
I'm not taking sides in this exchange, but do you really think we need to see a QB play for a full season or even longer to judge his merits accurately? Though his team was losing, for example, Aikman showed signs that made one never really doubt he'd ultimately be successful.

Wins and losses not withstanding (doesn't matter, IMO), I believe we'll have a definite sense of whether or not Croyle CAN be the guy by the midpoint of this season.

It's fairly common knowledge among NFL front offices that it takes 2-3 YEARS of starts before a QB reaches his full potential.

Aikman was 0-11 his rookie year. According to the Croyle bashers, what did he show? All they are looking at are wins and losses, apparently.

Or, have absolutely NO IDEA what they are looking for when it comes to improvement.

Croyle's improved DRAMATICALLY over this offseason. He's taking fewer sacks, not making poor decisions, throwing the ball away when needed and not forcing it. He's matured quite a bit.

It all comes back to the same word.

Patience.

This fanbase doesn't have the patience to go through the growing pains of a young QB, or a rebuilding process.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 04:57 PM
9 starts............0-9 record.......oh wait...preseason doesn't count and last year doesn't either because it was a bad o line. Built in excuses every year....
how can you say biased? based on what has been seen in 9 games he has not shown any indication of being an NFL QB no matter how many excuses you build for him.
Tell us what you have seen?

Well, he has seen our o-line suck and our receivers drop balls.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 04:58 PM
9 starts............0-9 record.......oh wait...preseason doesn't count and last year doesn't either because it was a bad o line. Built in excuses every year....
how can you say biased? based on what has been seen in 9 games he has not shown any indication of being an NFL QB no matter how many excuses you build for him.
Tell us what you have seen?

Why would you count PS, unless it fits your biased argument? He's not playing the entire game, and in 2/3 games, the starting groups "won" those games. What the 3rd string grocery baggers do in the 2nd half doesn't effect his standing.

Anyway, using your flawed logic, he's actually won a game.

He started the PS game in Chicago - and won.

Whoops.

King_Chief_Fan
08-24-2008, 05:00 PM
Why would you count PS, unless it fits your biased argument? He's not playing the entire game, and in 2/3 games, the starting groups "won" those games. What the 3rd string grocery baggers do in the 2nd half doesn't effect his standing.

Anyway, using your flawed logic, he's actually won a game.

He started the PS game in Chicago - and won.

Whoops.

ROFLwhoops?
you didn't answer the question

King_Chief_Fan
08-24-2008, 05:01 PM
For me, this is exactly why I don't like Croyle at all. There is not one single thing he does that makes me think he belongs in the NFL.

my point exactly

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 05:01 PM
It's fairly common knowledge among NFL front offices that it takes 2-3 YEARS of starts before a QB reaches his full potential.

Aikman was 0-11 his rookie year. According to the Croyle bashers, what did he show? All they are looking at are wins and losses, apparently.

Or, have absolutely NO IDEA what they are looking for when it comes to improvement.

Croyle's improved DRAMATICALLY over this offseason. He's taking fewer sacks, not making poor decisions, throwing the ball away when needed and not forcing it. He's matured quite a bit.

It all comes back to the same word.

Patience.

This fanbase doesn't have the patience to go through the growing pains of a young QB, or a rebuilding process.

Seriously, why do you keep bringing up Aikman? No one on this board knows what to look for but you, huh? If Croyle showed any signs of being a future NFL QB, I would not mind the losing one bit. I would gladly wait until Herm gets fired, but Croyle just does not have what it takes to be an NFL QB. That is what I see with my eyes. I don't need stats or your "facts" to know it.

Croyle is a less talented version of Kyle Boller.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 05:02 PM
ROFLwhoops?
you didn't answer the question

What question?

You can't even seem to get his record right, so why would I bother?

Plus, if you paid attention, it's written out a few posts back.

Not that I expect you to comprehend it.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Seriously, why do you keep bringing up Aikman? No one on this board knows what to look for but you, huh? If Croyle showed any signs of being a future NFL QB, I would not mind the losing one bit. I would gladly wait until Herm gets fired, but Croyle just does not have what it takes to be an NFL QB. That is what I see with my eyes. I don't need stats or your "facts" to know it.

Croyle is a less talented version of Kyle Boller.

I'm bringing up Aikman because people constantly throw the 0-6 comment out there.

Aikman PROVES that there's more to W/L than JUST the QB play. He went 0-11 and was the 1st overall pick. He should have been head and shoulders above Croyle, a measly 3rd round pick, from day one.

And plenty of people here know what to look for. Sorry you apparently don;t see it.

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE has come out and said that Croyle will be even a GOOD QB, much less a GREAT QB.

There are juts some of us that realize it takes more than 6 starts behind a bad OL with a retarded OC calling plays to properly evaluate the kid.

King_Chief_Fan
08-24-2008, 05:07 PM
What question?

You can't even seem to get his record right, so why would I bother?

Plus, if you paid attention, it's written out a few posts back.

Not that I expect you to comprehend it.

what I comprehend is facts.......list the stats. You and your momma are the only ones dumb enough to take your word for anything.

taking less sacks? throwing the ball away more? Those are subjective and your opininon only.............which counts for nothing

DeezNutz
08-24-2008, 05:09 PM
It's fairly common knowledge among NFL front offices that it takes 2-3 YEARS of starts before a QB reaches his full potential.


And I'm not arguing this point. What I would contend, however, is that it doesn't take 2-3 years to have a very good notion of whether or not a QB can be the guy and is worth taking the time to develop. These are two different issues.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 05:15 PM
And I'm not arguing this point. What I would contend, however, is that it doesn't take 2-3 years to have a very good notion of whether or not a QB can be the guy and is worth taking the time to develop. These are two different issues.


Do not agree.

Guys that are picked early are ASSUMED to be worth the time, and typically get that time to boom or bust.

Guys that are picked later are ASSUMED to not be worth the time, almost immediately.

this is why you always see late round picks bounce from team to team, then when they actually get a legitimate shot, flourish.

Hasselbeck, Bulger, Anderson and Warner come to mind - and there are more.

What's stupid about the whole argument - and something the Croyle haters love to gloss over - is that there's literally NO REASON not to start this kid in every game in 2008 and at least the first half of 2009.

There's no one behind him waiting in the wings, and anyone they draft in April wouldn't even be ready until the middle of 2009 anyway.

He's going to have games where he looks like a world-beater, and he's going to have games where he looks lost and confused. It happens to every young QB not named Brady or Roethlisberger.

Bearcat
08-24-2008, 05:17 PM
taking less sacks? throwing the ball away more? Those are subjective and your opininon only.............which counts for nothing

Those things are pretty important. LMAO

I haven't seen the preseason games this year, but I know last year there were times it looked like he was just aimlessly running around in the backfield, and he made some awful decisions. From what I've read, and from his stats, it looks like he's making progress. Yeah, they aren't great stats, so maybe there's nothing that sticks out and says "he's going to do well in this league"... but it doesn't seem like there's anything that sticks out and says "he's not going to make it" either.

There aren't 32 starting quarterbacks in this league, and there aren't all that many who would look better than mediocre in this offense.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 05:18 PM
And I'm not arguing this point. What I would contend, however, is that it doesn't take 2-3 years to have a very good notion of whether or not a QB can be the guy and is worth taking the time to develop. These are two different issues.

That is a good point. Is arm strength, Croyle's only plus, enough to waste these rebuilding years?

What if he sucks, people keep making excuses for him, including the coach and GM, saying that he under performs because the rest of the offense is bad, and then suddenly the rest of the team is ready to win and Croyle still sucks?

Then we will be back to square one at the QB position and face more losing, even though one of the reasons we endured losing in the first place was to develop a QB.

Bearcat
08-24-2008, 05:23 PM
And I'm not arguing this point. What I would contend, however, is that it doesn't take 2-3 years to have a very good notion of whether or not a QB can be the guy and is worth taking the time to develop. These are two different issues.

It doesn't take 2-3 years to figure out of the guy is going to be a top quarterback. We don't need him to turn into Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman. We need him to be someone that who can run the offense and won't make mistakes.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
He's going to have games where he looks like a world-beater

What? Since you want to count his one pre-season win as official, then lets count last night's game against a team that was 1-15 last year.

If he could not look like a world beater against that team, then I don't think there is any hope he will look like a world beater at any time this year.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 05:25 PM
That is a good point. Is arm strength, Croyle's only plus, enough to waste these rebuilding years?

What if he sucks, people keep making excuses for him, including the coach and GM, saying that he under performs because the rest of the offense is bad, and then suddenly the rest of the team is ready to win and Croyle still sucks?

Then we will be back to square one at the QB position and face more losing, even though one of the reasons we endured losing in the first place was to develop a QB.

Waste rebuilding years?

ROFL

How would the rest of the team be ready to win, if the rest of the offense is bad?

As much as you'd like to hold you breath, stomp your feet, and throw a childlike temper tantrum, this rebuilding process is going to take a while.

San Diego has been rebuilding since drafting LT back in 2001 - and STILL hasn't made the big game - even after phenomenal drafts in 2004 and 2005.

It took the Colts SIX YEARS to finally break through and win a SB, and they already had Manning, Harrison and Tarik Glenn at that point.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 05:27 PM
What? Since you want to count his one pre-season win as official, then lets count last night's game against a team that was 1-15 last year.

If he could not look like a world beater against that team, then I don't think there is any hope he will look like a world beater at any time this year.

Again, you're talking DIRECTLY out of your ass.

YOU were the one talking about Preseason games. Not me.

EVERY record I've listed for Croyle says 0-6.

There's no getting through to you, and I'm not even sure why I tried. You make KCChiefsFan88 look like a ****ing Rhodes Scholar.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 05:33 PM
Waste rebuilding years?

ROFL

How would the rest of the team be ready to win, if the rest of the offense is bad?

As much as you'd like to hold you breath, stomp your feet, and throw a childlike temper tantrum, this rebuilding process is going to take a while.

San Diego has been rebuilding since drafting LT back in 2001 - and STILL hasn't made the big game - even after phenomenal drafts in 2004 and 2005.

It took the Colts SIX YEARS to finally break through and win a SB, and they already had Manning, Harrison and Tarik Glenn at that point.

Of course, you are right. What was I thinking. No player on the team can improve at a rate equal to, or greater than the QB. Obviously, the entire team is only as good as the QB.

The Chargers went 8-8 in 2002, 4-12 in 2003, 12-4 in 2004, 9-7 in 2005, 14-2 in 2006, 11-5 in 2007. Yeah, those stupid Chargers are still rebuilding.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 05:35 PM
YOU were the one talking about Preseason games. Not me.

EVERY record I've listed for Croyle says 0-6.

Really?

He started the PS game in Chicago - and won.

DeezNutz
08-24-2008, 05:36 PM
Do not agree.

Guys that are picked early are ASSUMED to be worth the time, and typically get that time to boom or bust.

Guys that are picked later are ASSUMED to not be worth the time, almost immediately.

this is why you always see late round picks bounce from team to team, then when they actually get a legitimate shot, flourish.

Hasselbeck, Bulger, Anderson and Warner come to mind - and there are more.

What's stupid about the whole argument - and something the Croyle haters love to gloss over - is that there's literally NO REASON not to start this kid in every game in 2008 and at least the first half of 2009.

There's no one behind him waiting in the wings, and anyone they draft in April wouldn't even be ready until the middle of 2009 anyway.

He's going to have games where he looks like a world-beater, and he's going to have games where he looks lost and confused. It happens to every young QB not named Brady or Roethlisberger.

Ok. You make solid points, but it depends what one considers a legit. shot. By week 11, for example, Croyle will have had a full season of starts. This qualifies as a legit. shot in my book. By this time, he's going to be far from fully developed and he'll still likely have all sorts of shortcomings. BUT we should have enough clues to see that this kid MIGHT have a bright future.

I agree that he should start every game possible in '08. This isn't even an arguable point, IMO, but there's one very good reason that '09 isn't necessarily a given and that's injury.

This has been my one major concern with Croyle from the beginning; I'm not convinced he can withstand the beating.

BigMeatballDave
08-24-2008, 05:39 PM
That is a good point. Is arm strength, Croyle's only plus, enough to waste these rebuilding years?

What if he sucks, people keep making excuses for him, including the coach and GM, saying that he under performs because the rest of the offense is bad, and then suddenly the rest of the team is ready to win and Croyle still sucks?

Then we will be back to square one at the QB position and face more losing, even though one of the reasons we endured losing in the first place was to develop a QB.So, what do you think the Chiefs should do? What other options do they have? Keep playing Huard? You do not rebuild with aging vets at key positions. Thats just dumb.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 05:42 PM
There's no getting through to you, and I'm not even sure why I tried.

Why is there no getting through to me? Because after all of your "facts" I still think Croyle is a joke and a waste of time?

No matter how well you craft your argument, the proof will always be Croyle's performance. And so far, I am right.

Like I said earlier, we'll see what you are saying the last week of December. If Croyle physically makes it that long.

My guess is there will no longer be any doubt about Croyle's lack of skill.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 05:43 PM
Ok. You make solid points, but it depends what one considers a legit. shot. By week 11, for example, Croyle will have had a full season of starts. This qualifies as a legit. shot in my book. By this time, he's going to be far from fully developed and he'll still likely to have all sorts of shortcomings. BUT we should have enough clues to see that this kid MIGHT have a bright future.

I agree that he should start every game possible in '08. This isn't even an arguable point, IMO, but there's one very good reason that '09 isn't necessarily a given and that's injury.

This has been my one major concern with Croyle from the beginning; I'm not convinced he can withstand the beating.

I'm with you 100% on the injury front.

If healthy, there's no reason he wouldn't get part of 2009 as well, for no other reason than there wouldn't be anyone ready behind him.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 05:47 PM
So, what do you think the Chiefs should do? What other options do they have? Keep playing Huard? You do not rebuild with aging vets at key positions. Thats just dumb.

Sir, you raise an interesting question. What should they do? I agree, you do not rebuild with aging vets at key positions. I in no way think that we have someone better on the team. Maybe give Thigpen 4 starts, and if he he was able to start all four games consecutively, he would already have done something Croyle could not.

I really don't know, but I just get annoyed with people who continue to blame others for Croyle's poor performances.

BigMeatballDave
08-24-2008, 05:52 PM
I really don't know, but I just get annoyed with people who continue to blame others for Croyle's poor performances.The line sucks. The recievers are not getting good seperation. Its a valid argument.

beach tribe
08-24-2008, 06:04 PM
After being there, and watching these guys play, I can't muster up the energy to defend them. This is what I see. We are going to be just like the early texans, Harrington lions, and all the other shit organizations. We will never know whether Brodie could have been an NFL caliber player. After this year he's gonna be shell shocked David Carr style. By mid season he's gonna be looking for the rush before he even finishes his drop. The right side is going to be a disaster. I have tried, and tried to be positive, and look at the overall picture of us developing, and Croyle coming into his own, but he's ****ed. He may be in no win situation. Unless by some miracle this line shapes up the poor guy is going to be murdered, and then run out of town, and it won't even be his fault.

The Bad Guy
08-24-2008, 06:10 PM
I don't think Croyle has a chance to be a starter worthy QB in this league.

Call it a hunch. But what I see from him isnt improvement over last year.

This team still has Bowe and Gonzalez. He should be able to find them on just about every play. If not, check it down.

Chiefnj2
08-24-2008, 06:14 PM
One of the worst things that could happen to KC this year is not know at the end of the year if Croyle is the QBOTF or not.

The team should have made sure Croyle had enough protection and receivers to make that judgment.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 06:14 PM
The line sucks. The recievers are not getting good seperation. Its a valid argument.

Ok, and to my eyes he never looks at anyone other than the person he is going to throw the ball to.

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 06:20 PM
there has been some progression this ps but we need to see it it grows

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 06:33 PM
Well, he has seen our o-line suck and our receivers drop balls.

What was false about those comments?

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 06:35 PM
what I comprehend is facts.......list the stats. You and your momma are the only ones dumb enough to take your word for anything.

taking less sacks? throwing the ball away more? Those are subjective and your opininon only.............which counts for nothing

But Trent Edwards and JT O'Sullivan are proven commodities ROFLROFL

And your word should mean something with comments like that?

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 07:04 PM
What was false about those comments?

Nothing was false about those statements, but they don't prove Croyle's skill. Because the o-line sucks, and the receivers suck, does not mean the QB does not suck too.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 07:07 PM
Nothing was false about those statements, but they don't prove Croyle's skill. Because the o-line sucks, and the receivers suck, does not mean the QB does not suck too.

It doesn't prove his LACK of skill, either.

Who let all the asshats out of the ****ing basement?

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2008, 07:14 PM
It doesn't prove his LACK of skill, either.

Who let all the asshats out of the ****ing basement?

No, his performance proves his lack of skill.

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:40 PM
Wins and losses not withstanding (doesn't matter, IMO), I believe we'll have a definite sense of whether or not Croyle CAN be the guy by the midpoint of this season.

It'll probably take the O-line at least half a season to gel. This makes the first half of the season useless, in judging Croyle. I think what he does late in the season would be more representative of his potential.

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:46 PM
It's fairly common knowledge among NFL front offices that it takes 2-3 YEARS of starts before a QB reaches his full potential.

Aikman was 0-11 his rookie year. According to the Croyle bashers, what did he show? All they are looking at are wins and losses, apparently.

Or, have absolutely NO IDEA what they are looking for when it comes to improvement.

Croyle's improved DRAMATICALLY over this offseason. He's taking fewer sacks, not making poor decisions, throwing the ball away when needed and not forcing it. He's matured quite a bit.

It all comes back to the same word.

Patience.

This fanbase doesn't have the patience to go through the growing pains of a young QB, or a rebuilding process.
True. I will also add that expectations of him becoming another Peyton Manning is unrealistic. He should not be compared to Peyton. We should hope that he eventually develop into Eli. How many years of sucky play did it take for Eli to finally develop?

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:53 PM
What? Since you want to count his one pre-season win as official, then lets count last night's game against a team that was 1-15 last year.

If he could not look like a world beater against that team, then I don't think there is any hope he will look like a world beater at any time this year.

That is a very flawed logic. What does last year have to do with this year? I saw a pretty good 'D' in the aqua uniform last night. Apparently they did pretty well against their previous week's opponent, according to the announcers.

Frankie
08-24-2008, 11:58 PM
Nothing was false about those statements, but they don't prove Croyle's skill. Because the o-line sucks, and the receivers suck, does not mean the QB does not suck too.

It doesn't mean he does either. But some of you are so certain that he sucks.

KCJohnny
08-25-2008, 05:01 AM
if Brodie goes 16 games this year and does not have at least 3,000 yds passing, 15 TDs and a rating of at least 70, there better be some good reasons for it. As the Bad Guy said, he has Gonzo and Bowe, and LJ - he should be able to improve over last year.
I think he won't make it 16 starts with this OL. the question then becomes does Herm let Thigpen relieve Croyle or go with trusty Huard and try to win a half dozen games...

Micjones
08-25-2008, 10:54 AM
It's fairly common knowledge among NFL front offices that it takes 2-3 YEARS of starts before a QB reaches his full potential.

Sure... If he's a First Round pick you afford him that kind of time.
Maybe...

Third Round picks NEVER get the kind of time to develop fans keep clamoring for.
This is an absolute joke.

Aikman was 0-11 his rookie year. According to the Croyle bashers, what did he show? All they are looking at are wins and losses, apparently.

One day you'll stop talking out of your ass.
That team was God awful. But Aikman? Aikman?

Here are numbers from his first 6 starts:
7 TD's 3 INT's
Game 1, 105.0 QB Rating
Game 2, 103.5 QB Rating
Game 5, 118.9 QB Rating
Game 6, 102.4 QB Rating

He had a two TD game (no INT's) and a three TD game (no INT's).
He SHOWED something.

Croyle's improved DRAMATICALLY over this offseason. He's taking fewer sacks, not making poor decisions, throwing the ball away when needed and not forcing it. He's matured quite a bit.

That only means he's better. It does NOT mean he should be our starting QB.

Count Alex's Wins
08-25-2008, 10:58 AM
You got any better options?

No, you don't. So let the kid play.

Micjones
08-25-2008, 10:59 AM
You got any better options?

No, you don't. So let the kid play.

How about letting someone else play?
Give Thigpen a shot.

This isn't High School football. The kid has had his chance to play.
He IS NOT a starting NFL QB.

Count Alex's Wins
08-25-2008, 11:02 AM
This isn't High School football. The kid has had his chance to play.
He IS NOT a starting NFL QB.

Let him prove it. Christ.

Micjones
08-25-2008, 11:03 AM
Let him prove it. Christ.

He has proven it.
Stop making excuses for a professional athlete.
He has proven in 12 NFL starts that he should not be our or anyone else's starting QB.

The sample size is big enough. I've proven that time and again.
I will go even further to prove that to end the discussion that he hasn't had time to have shown something.

Count Alex's Wins
08-25-2008, 11:06 AM
He has proven in 12 NFL starts that he should not be our or anyone else's starting QB.
.

****!

WHAT THE ****?

Croyle has had SIX STARTS in the NFL. SIX REGULAR SEASON STARTS.

That's ALL that counts and ALL you can judge him on.

And quite frankly, he could have been a LOT worse. For ****ING CRYING OUT LOUD his TD/INT ratio is 1 to 1 in those starts.

**** ME!!! ****ING IMPATIENT CHIEFS FANS DON'T DESERVE A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK!!! THEY DESERVE AN IMMORTAL DAMON HUARD!

****!

Sure-Oz
08-25-2008, 11:06 AM
Who the hell are we going to throw out there this season?? Seriously, its stupid to not let him play out the year and see where he is at in the end. No ****ing way Huard or Eric Crouch JR are worth a damn throwing out there. I want to know what the better solution is? This isn't a playoff team anyway...we should've let him play all year last year, but we ****ed that up...so this has to be the time to see what he really is

OnTheWarpath58
08-25-2008, 11:09 AM
How about letting someone else play?
Give Thigpen a shot.

This isn't High School football. The kid has had his chance to play.
He IS NOT a starting NFL QB.

ROFL

You made a great point with the Aikman stats, then shit down your leg with the Thigpen remark.

If you're only going to give Croyle six regular season starts, how many are you going to give Thigpen?

Two?

Frankie
08-25-2008, 11:10 AM
Sure... If he's a First Round pick you afford him that kind of time.
Maybe...

Third Round picks NEVER get the kind of time to develop fans keep clamoring for.
This is an absolute joke.First round picks get some sort of serious involvement and field experience from day one. In other words, they are either sink or swim starters or at least see the field enough times to get a good feel of it the first year. Croyle's first year was zero. it should not be counted as part of his development. Basically he was asked to do, last year, what a typical first rounder is asked to do in his first year. 2008 is his 2nd year of development. Like Claythan said, let's see how he does THIS YEAR.

OnTheWarpath58
08-25-2008, 11:11 AM
****!

WHAT THE ****?

Croyle has had SIX STARTS in the NFL. SIX REGULAR SEASON STARTS.

That's ALL that counts and ALL you can judge him on.

And quite frankly, he could have been a LOT worse. For ****ING CRYING OUT LOUD his TD/INT ratio is 1 to 1 in those starts.

**** ME!!! ****ING IMPATIENT CHIEFS FANS DON'T DESERVE A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK!!! THEY DESERVE AN IMMORTAL DAMON HUARD!

****!

That's the thing that Croyle bashers keep glossing over.

People were/are concerned about his "decision making", yet the kid has a 1/1 TD to INT ratio in games that count.

Micjones
08-25-2008, 11:11 AM
****!

WHAT THE ****?

Croyle has had SIX STARTS in the NFL. SIX REGULAR SEASON STARTS.

That's ALL that counts and ALL you can judge him on.

And quite frankly, he could have been a LOT worse. For ****ING CRYING OUT LOUD his TD/INT ratio is 1 to 1 in those starts.

**** ME!!! ****ING IMPATIENT CHIEFS FANS DON'T DESERVE A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK!!! THEY DESERVE AN IMMORTAL DAMON HUARD!

****!

Even the lame argument that 6 NFL starts isn't ample time to evaluate Croyle doesn't hold water anymore. I've proven that.

You're making excuses for him.

Micjones
08-25-2008, 11:12 AM
ROFL

You made a great point with the Aikman stats, then shit down your leg with the Thigpen remark.

If you're only going to give Croyle six regular season starts, how many are you going to give Thigpen?

Two?

I'm willing to afford him 6-8 games.

Micjones
08-25-2008, 11:13 AM
First round picks get some sort of serious involvement and field experience from day one. In other words, they are either sink or swim starters or at least see the field enough times to get a good feel of it the first year. Croyle's first year was zero. it should not be counted as part of his development. Basically he was asked to do, last year, what a typical first rounder is asked to do in his first year. 2008 is his 2nd year of development. Like Claythan said, let's see how he does THIS YEAR.

First Round picks aren't always pushed into the fire.
Brady Quinn hasn't been.

Croyle was eased into the starting job the best way possible.

He's being coddled by this fanbase.