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View Full Version : Elections McCain is going to start playing POW card


dirk digler
08-24-2008, 11:02 AM
Brillant idea. This worked so well for Rudy when he used 9/11 as an excuses for everything.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/
The POW card, cont'd

First Read quotes unnamed McCain aides suggesting that McCain's prisoner-of-war experience may become his first response to the attack on his having lost track of his real estate holdings -- a non-sequitur, perhaps, but emotionally powerful.
They will be prepared to show McCain's "home" in Hanoi by using images of his cell. They claim they have not overused the POW element and insist they have "underused it."
And sure enough, McCain goes there (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12754.html) on CBS:"I spent some years without a kitchen table, without a chair, and I know what it's like to be blessed by the opportunities of this great nation," he says in response to a question about his houses.

Cave Johnson
08-24-2008, 11:37 AM
My friends, the POW card is like a get out of jail free card. It's magic!

Cheat on your wife? "There were no women where I was for 5 and a half years."

Et cetra, ad infinitum.

ROYC75
08-24-2008, 11:38 AM
Oh just wait till he admits his farts stink and the democrats farts are air fresheners ....... How will the democrats spin this one ?

wazu
08-24-2008, 12:10 PM
Honestly, this was my first thought when I saw them attacking him for his houses. It's almost impossible to make a guy who was a 5 year POW in Vietnam somehow seem "elitist". I would also make sure it's a known that roughly a fourth of the McCain's income goes to charity. (Compared to less than 1% for the Obamas prior to him running for president.)

Mr. Laz
08-24-2008, 12:14 PM
McCain is going to start playing POW card.

going to start???


has there ever been a political discussion about McCain that didn't play that card?

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 12:30 PM
It's pretty easy to sit back and pick shit like that apart when you've never been out of the country, let alone in a war, let alone taken prisoner, let alone for 5 ****ing years. Hasn't the guy earned the right to tout that if he wants? Win or lose, he's been through more hell than any of you will ever endure. Ever. No I'm not voting for him, or anyone else for that matter. No, I haven't served in the military. No I don't have a personal ax to grind here. But FFS, doesn't anyone respect the sacrifices people make for your right to post this tripe on the internet anymore?

Nightfyre
08-24-2008, 12:30 PM
"I spent some years without a kitchen table, without a chair, and I know what it's like to be blessed by the opportunities of this great nation," he says in response to a question about his houses.

vs.

"I spent some years without a kitchen table, without a chair, and I know what it's like to be blessed by marrying a wealthy woman who inherited her father's fortune." he says in response to a question about his houses.

Nightfyre
08-24-2008, 12:31 PM
It's pretty easy to sit back and pick shit like that apart when you've never been out of the country, let alone in a war, let alone taken prisoner, let alone for 5 ****ing years. Hasn't the guy earned the right to tout that if he wants? Win or lose, he's been through more hell than any of you will ever endure. Ever. No I'm not voting for him, or anyone else for that matter. No, I haven't served in the military. No I don't have a personal ax to grind here. But FFS, doesn't anyone respect the sacrifices people make for your right to post this tripe on the internet anymore?

I'm sorry if I don't feel the conflict in Vietnam preserved my right to post on the internet. McCain's foreign policy outlook is comparable to Vietnam. Interesting, no?

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 12:38 PM
It's pretty easy to sit back and pick shit like that apart when you've never been out of the country, let alone in a war, let alone taken prisoner, let alone for 5 ****ing years. Hasn't the guy earned the right to tout that if he wants? Win or lose, he's been through more hell than any of you will ever endure. Ever. No I'm not voting for him, or anyone else for that matter. No, I haven't served in the military. No I don't have a personal ax to grind here. But FFS, doesn't anyone respect the sacrifices people make for your right to post this tripe on the internet anymore?

No one is dismissing his POW experience. Rather, they are dismissing the number and examples of how he's played it.

I hate this bullshit that somehow respect from being in the military means respect in all faces of your life. I hate this bullshit that somehow being a POW makes you capable of leading the country.

Most of all I hate this bullshit that both sides continue to do: ignore the issues and take up character punches instead. It's too bad that polls indicate negativity wins.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 12:49 PM
I'm sorry if I don't feel the conflict in Vietnam preserved my right to post on the internet. McCain's foreign policy outlook is comparable to Vietnam. Interesting, no?

So basically, if you don't agree with the war then **** the soldiers too. They have a choice right? I'm not defending McCain the politician, I'm defending McCain the POW soldier. That's all.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 12:51 PM
No one is dismissing his POW experience. Rather, they are dismissing the number and examples of how he's played it.

I hate this bullshit that somehow respect from being in the military means respect in all faces of your life. I hate this bullshit that somehow being a POW makes you capable of leading the country.

Most of all I hate this bullshit that both sides continue to do: ignore the issues and take up character punches instead. It's too bad that polls indicate negativity wins.

I agree with every single sentiment you're making except I think he has every right to wear THAT particular badge of honor any way he wishes. It doesn't mean I support, or advocate anyone else supporting his bid for the White House. I just don 't agree with anyone taking swipes at him for that. Everything BUT that IMO.

Nightfyre
08-24-2008, 12:54 PM
So basically, if you don't agree with the war then **** the soldiers too. They have a choice right? I'm not defending McCain the politician, I'm defending McCain the POW soldier. That's all.
Did I say **** the soldiers? No I said his service was not relevant to my freedom today, which is accurate. War is old people talking and young people suffering. What I find interesting is how little affect his POW time has had on his foreign policy stances, having stood in both roles now.

I have no problem believing that his life was drastically altered by the POW experience. What I do have trouble believing is that it wouldn't affect his foreign policy outlook on world police missions. The two don't jive, and it confuses me. That was the real point of the previous post.

Programmer
08-24-2008, 01:02 PM
No one is dismissing his POW experience. Rather, they are dismissing the number and examples of how he's played it.

I hate this bullshit that somehow respect from being in the military means respect in all faces of your life. I hate this bullshit that somehow being a POW makes you capable of leading the country.

Most of all I hate this bullshit that both sides continue to do: ignore the issues and take up character punches instead. It's too bad that polls indicate negativity wins.


You are just following your personal stance that the military is nothing and those that serve deserve nothing in the way of respect. Whether you believe in the wars we've been involved in they were all fighting for the freedom you now enjoy.

The republicans would start attacking Obslama's character if he had any, but he doesn't. An empty quiver, so to speak.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 01:02 PM
Did I say **** the soldiers? No I said his service was not relevant to my freedom today, which is accurate. War is old people talking and young people suffering. What I find interesting is how little affect his POW time has had on his foreign policy stances, having stood in both roles now.

I have no problem believing that his life was drastically altered by the POW experience. What I do have trouble believing is that it wouldn't affect his foreign policy outlook on world police missions. The two don't jive, and it confuses me. That was the real point of the previous post.

I'm not interested in the politico at all. None. It's all a big, big sham to me. I'm pretty sure it is for you too. I just don't indulge in it at all anymore because I'm confident I recognize it for what it is. Smoke and mirrors. I'll stop there because I'm getting off track.

These kids that serve in the military generally come from poor as shit backgrounds, and it's the only real opportunity they have at getting the money they need to really make a life for themselves. It's a risk that many of them take because it has feel good effects as well.

The fact that the guy was defending freedom (in theory anyway) is just not lost on me. That was the point I was trying to make. With what he went through, and the honor he showed in it's pursuit, I just think he has the right to tout that to whatever level he sees fit in any facet of his life. And it's gross to me to see people criticize it that have ZERO clue of what that must have been like. It's just how I feel. I see your point on it not having any effect on YOUR individual freedom, maybe I'm overly empathetic.

HolmeZz
08-24-2008, 01:05 PM
McCain's already started doing it. The next 70 days are going to be a guilt-fest.

Nightfyre
08-24-2008, 01:06 PM
I'm not interested in the politico at all. None. It's all a big, big sham to me. I'm pretty sure it is for you too. I just don't indulge in it at all anymore because I'm confident I recognize it for what it is. Smoke and mirrors. I'll stop there because I'm getting off track.

These kids that serve in the military generally come from poor as shit backgrounds, and it's the only real opportunity they have at getting the money they need to really make a life for themselves. It's a risk that many of them take because it has feel good effects as well.

The fact that the guy was defending freedom (in theory anyway) is just not lost on me. That was the point I was trying to make. With what he went through, and the honor he showed in it's pursuit, I just think he has the right to tout that to whatever level he sees fit in any facet of his life. And it's gross to me to see people criticize it that have ZERO clue of what that must have been like. It's just how I feel. I see your point on it not having any effect on YOUR individual freedom, maybe I'm overly empathetic.

No, I can't possibly empathize. He suffered tremendously, I'm sure. I can only sympathize in that respect. However, his suffering was wrought at the hands of leaders with similar foreign policies as he is advocating now, and the irony isn't lost on me.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 01:09 PM
No, I can't possibly empathize. He suffered tremendously, I'm sure. I can only sympathize in that respect. However, his suffering was wrought at the hands of leaders with similar foreign policies as he is advocating now, and the irony isn't lost on me.

I used the wrong word. Not the first time, won't be the last. I don't pay attention to anything that any of the puppets say, so I guess I'm just not relating to that aspect of what you're saying. I can understand it though, and again, even if I was voting, it wouldn't be for McCain. For me, this is about a soldier and his service. Not a politician climbing the elitist ladder.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 01:10 PM
I used the wrong word. Not the first time, won't be the last. I don't pay attention to anything that any of the puppets say, so I guess I'm just not relating to that aspect of what you're saying. I can understand it though, and again, even if I was voting, it wouldn't be for McCain. For me, this is about a soldier and his service. Not a politician climbing the elitist ladder.

LMAO Of course, I am married. And I've been with her for 6 years, so maybe I'm one up on ole' Johnny boy after all!

Nightfyre
08-24-2008, 01:11 PM
I used the wrong word. Not the first time, won't be the last. I don't pay attention to anything that any of the puppets say, so I guess I'm just not relating to that aspect of what you're saying. I can understand it though, and again, even if I was voting, it wouldn't be for McCain. For me, this is about a soldier and his service. Not a politician climbing the elitist ladder.
I think we are both in the same place in that, we see what the other is saying and that we were just approaching the situation from different perspectives and with different intents.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 01:17 PM
I think we are both in the same place in that, we see what the other is saying and that we were just approaching the situation from different perspectives and with different intents.

Yep. Always good when it can be done on an even level with reasonable minded conversation. As much as I try and make others think about things on levels that they normally don't, I'm here to do the same thing for myself.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 01:19 PM
I agree with every single sentiment you're making except I think he has every right to wear THAT particular badge of honor any way he wishes. It doesn't mean I support, or advocate anyone else supporting his bid for the White House. I just don 't agree with anyone taking swipes at him for that. Everything BUT that IMO.

No doubt, but I do think that, at some point, wearing it respectfully crosses into wearing it for an exploitation of people's empathy.

This is where I think McCain is now and if not, he will, at the very least, be shortly.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 01:22 PM
No doubt, but I do think that, at some point, wearing it respectfully crosses into wearing it for an exploitation of people's empathy.

This is where I think McCain is now and if not, he will, at the very least, be shortly.

Well. I'm sure there is a line in the sand somewhere, I've just never seen it. If he continues with the diversions that I've heard everyone talking about then it's a possibility.

beer bacon
08-24-2008, 01:24 PM
McCain is demeaning all the servicemen that have sacrificed to our country. McCain himself used to outright say he didn't like to exploit his past service and suffering by using it as a political football. Since Rove's people have taken over his campaign, he has completely changed on his previously honorable stance:

On deflecting criticism about him not being able to remember how many houses he owns:

"This is a guy who lived in one house for five and a half years -- in prison,"

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpo...s_on_houses.php

And later on explaining he hasn't always had 7 kitchen tables:
quote:

I spent some years without a kitchen table, without a chair...

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpo...kes_pow_pas.php


For explaing why he couldn't have possibly cheated by hearing the questions at the Saddleback forum beforehand:
quote:

"The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.co...ives/16589.html

On explaining away how he offered up his wife into a topless beauty pageant:
quote:

“know that John McCain’s faith and character were tested and forged in ways few can fathom.”

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.co...ives/16571.html

On opposing universal healthcare:
quote:

[Edwards] noted that he'd always enjoyed government health benefits, McCain responded that he knows what it's like to get inadequate care -- ``from another government.'

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...&refer=home

On criticizing a museum dedicated to Woodstock:
quote:

McCain criticized Sen. Hillary Clinton for proposing funds for a museum celebrating Woodstock. He didn't know what there was to celebrate, he said, because he was "tied up" during the music festival.'

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...&refer=home

And even on explaining his musical tastes:
quote:

Explaining that his favorite song was "Dancing Queen" by ABBA, he offered that his knowledge of music "stopped evolving when his plane intercepted a surface-to-air missile." Dancing Queen, however, was produced in 1975, eight years after McCain's plane was shot down.

http://www.johnmccain.com/mccainrep...d1-f7c493e21339

Of course McCain himself said back in 2004 that he was "sick and tired of re-fighting" Vietnam.
quote:

"I'm sick and tired of re-fighting the Vietnam War. And most importantly, I'm sick and tired of opening the wounds of the Vietnam War, which I've spent the last 30 years trying to heal.

quote:

McCain said Kerry may have opened himself to criticism by focusing on Vietnam. In his own primary campaign in 2000, McCain said, he didn't have to because everyone knew he'd been there. For Kerry, "it's clearly a tactical or strategic move" to shield him against "charges of being too liberal and soft on defense."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politi...5-mccain-_x.htm (August 25, 2004)


I suppose this is yet another example of the old McCain not even being able to recognize the 2008 version.


And then here's one of the veterans getting pissed off about it:
quote:

When he uses his status as a veteran to deflect legitimate questions and concerns, it devalues not just his service to our country but ours as well.

So today, we ask not as Veterans for Obama, but as Veterans of America that Sen. McCain respect the service of his fellow POWs and combat veterans, and stop cheapening their service by hiding behind his own.

http://vetsforobama.org/2008/08/22/...h-the-pow-card/

dirk digler
08-24-2008, 01:27 PM
It's pretty easy to sit back and pick shit like that apart when you've never been out of the country, let alone in a war, let alone taken prisoner, let alone for 5 ****ing years. Hasn't the guy earned the right to tout that if he wants? Win or lose, he's been through more hell than any of you will ever endure. Ever. No I'm not voting for him, or anyone else for that matter. No, I haven't served in the military. No I don't have a personal ax to grind here. But FFS, doesn't anyone respect the sacrifices people make for your right to post this tripe on the internet anymore?

I respect and honor McCain's service and sacrifice. The problem I have is when he starts using it as an excuse for screwing up. And it is just not him it is for anybody. The same equivalent would be using the race card when Obama screws up. IMO it is unacceptable.

If he keeps using the POW card people will no longer feel the same way about it and it will be a running joke just like everytime Rudy says 9/11. After a while it loses its meaning.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 01:34 PM
Well. I'm sure there is a line in the sand somewhere, I've just never seen it. If he continues with the diversions that I've heard everyone talking about then it's a possibility.

If you were the one drawing the line, where would you draw it?

beer bacon
08-24-2008, 01:36 PM
The President does not get leeway like a normal person. The President is not allowed to throw racial epithets like gooks because of his personal history.

patteeu
08-24-2008, 02:05 PM
No, I can't possibly empathize. He suffered tremendously, I'm sure. I can only sympathize in that respect. However, his suffering was wrought at the hands of leaders with similar foreign policies as he is advocating now, and the irony isn't lost on me.

What are the similarities you see? (so the irony won't be lost on me!)

Reaper16
08-24-2008, 02:10 PM
It's pretty easy to sit back and pick shit like that apart when you've never been out of the country, let alone in a war, let alone taken prisoner, let alone for 5 ****ing years. Hasn't the guy earned the right to tout that if he wants? Win or lose, he's been through more hell than any of you will ever endure. Ever. No I'm not voting for him, or anyone else for that matter. No, I haven't served in the military. No I don't have a personal ax to grind here. But FFS, doesn't anyone respect the sacrifices people make for your right to post this tripe on the internet anymore?
The degree that McCain's campaign is using his POW experience for political gain shows that he doesn't even respect his own sacrifice anymore.

Nightfyre
08-24-2008, 02:13 PM
What are the similarities you see? (so the irony won't be lost on me!)
We could just spare ourselves the time of repeating this sparring match and just agree to disagree on foreign policy now. :)

J Diddy
08-24-2008, 02:28 PM
I don't see how being a former POW makes him any more or less qualified for POTUS

NCarlsCorner2
08-24-2008, 02:32 PM
I respect and honor McCain's service and sacrifice. The problem I have is when he starts using it as an excuse for screwing up. And it is just not him it is for anybody. The same equivalent would be using the race card when Obama screws up. IMO it is unacceptable.

If he keeps using the POW card people will no longer feel the same way about it and it will be a running joke just like everytime Rudy says 9/11. After a while it loses its meaning.

When Obama screws up the media just fixes it for him, how many times has he said something and then the media has said this is what he really meant.

irishjayhawk
08-24-2008, 02:33 PM
I don't see how being a former POW makes him any more or less qualified for POTUS

That's what I've always wondered.

beer bacon
08-24-2008, 02:35 PM
When Obama screws up the media just fixes it for him, how many times has he said something and then the media has said this is what he really meant.

I don't know. Why don't you just cite some examples?

Ultra Peanut
08-24-2008, 03:05 PM
Start?

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 05:03 PM
I respect and honor McCain's service and sacrifice. The problem I have is when he starts using it as an excuse for screwing up. And it is just not him it is for anybody. The same equivalent would be using the race card when Obama screws up. IMO it is unacceptable.

If he keeps using the POW card people will no longer feel the same way about it and it will be a running joke just like everytime Rudy says 9/11. After a while it loses its meaning.

If you were the one drawing the line, where would you draw it?

You know, I don't know. It's a personal choice. Me thinks I jumped to conclusion on this one. I'm probably the least educated person in this thread on the subject. So maybe he already has. I haven't heard about it anywhere else though. So that was my thought process. I yield.

Logical
08-24-2008, 05:18 PM
So basically, if you don't agree with the war then **** the soldiers too. They have a choice right? I'm not defending McCain the politician, I'm defending McCain the POW soldier. That's all.Jesus, he got shot down and like thousands of others were POWs does that make them all Presidential material? Does it really excuse him having an affair on his wife who was in the hospital (they thought she might die from the accident) years after he was a POW? Does it make him any less elitest now that he has married a multimilliionaire?

Donger
08-24-2008, 05:21 PM
I don't see how being a former POW makes him any more or less qualified for POTUS

In and of itself, it doesn't. The leadership and determination he showed in the face of it does, IMO.

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2008, 05:22 PM
he SHOULD TOUT IT the man was put there by OUR govt and was a pow. how many on here can say that? what has obama ever done?

beer bacon
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
Sign my petition to transform the United States General Presidential Election into a raffle of all living former POWs. We owe them leadership of the country people!

Logical
08-24-2008, 05:29 PM
By the way if McCain would reverse his mistaken support of our occupation and maintain his long time beliefs such as the Bush tax cuts are wrong. I might support change my my to go third party and support him.

Logical
08-24-2008, 05:50 PM
he SHOULD TOUT IT the man was put there by OUR govt and was a pow. how many on here can say that? what has obama ever done?Well I guess we can have almost 600 candidates just from Vietnam.

Logical
08-24-2008, 05:52 PM
Evidently at least one other former POW is against McCains presidential bid.As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.
...
John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More that 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.
I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/19/fellow-vietnam-pow-why-i_n_119893.html

beer bacon
08-24-2008, 05:52 PM
Well I guess we can have almost 600 candidates just from Vietnam.

Like I said, the only fair way to choose our President is a raffle of all living, former POWs.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-24-2008, 11:22 PM
I never said that. I made it pretty clear too.

Ultra Peanut
08-24-2008, 11:53 PM
After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once.Note: Treatment of said POWs does not qualify as torture under Bush administration's definition.

beer bacon
08-25-2008, 12:08 AM
Note: Treatment of said POWs does not qualify as torture under Bush administration's definition.

It is pretty interesting. The torture that was used on McCain is used by the United States today, and it is not called torture by the current Administration:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/was-mccain-tort.html

In all the discussion of John McCain's recently recovered memory of a religious epiphany in Vietnam, one thing has been missing. The torture that was deployed against McCain emerges in all the various accounts. It involved sleep deprivation, the withholding of medical treatment, stress positions, long-time standing, and beating. Sound familiar?

According to the Bush administration's definition of torture, McCain was therefore not tortured.

Cheney denies that McCain was tortured; as does Bush. So do John Yoo and David Addington and George Tenet. In the one indisputably authentic version of the story of a Vietnamese guard showing compassion, McCain talks of the agony of long-time standing. A quarter century later, Don Rumsfeld was putting his signature to memos lengthening the agony of "long-time standing" that victims of Bush's torture regime would have to endure. These torture techniques are, according to the president of the United States, merely "enhanced interrogation."

No war crimes were committed against McCain. And the techniques used are, according to the president, tools to extract accurate information. And so the false confessions that McCain was forced to make were, according to the logic of the Bush administration, as accurate as the "intelligence" we have procured from "interrogating" terror suspects. Feel safer?

The cross-in-the-dirt story - although deeply fishy to any fair observer - is in the realm of the unprovable. But the actual techniques used on McCain, and the lies they were designed to legitimize, are a matter of historical record. And the government of the United States now practices the very same techniques that the Communist government of North Vietnam once proudly used against American soldiers. When they are used against future John McCains, the victims will know, in a way McCain didn't, that their own government has no moral standing to complain.

Now the kicker: in the Military Commissions Act, McCain acquiesced to the use of these techniques against terror suspects by the CIA. And so the tortured became the enabler of torture. Someone somewhere cried out in pain for the same reasons McCain once did. And McCain let it continue.

These are the prices people pay for power.

jAZ
08-25-2008, 12:21 AM
How anyone can try to justify this beyond simply acknowledging it as a purely political stunt and saying "well, it just might work" is amazing.

Earthling
08-25-2008, 01:48 AM
These kids that serve in the military generally come from poor as shit backgrounds, and it's the only real opportunity they have at getting the money they need to really make a life for themselves. It's a risk that many of them take because it has feel good effects as well.



Perhaps you are right about the enlistees that are in todays armed forces...BUT, speaking for myself, I was really just a kid myself (18) when I enlisted in the Navy during the Vietnam era, (1968 - 1972), and my own reasons for serving had nothing to do with money, education, or improving my lot in life. It had EVERYTHING to do with what I felt was the "right thing to do". I had an extremely strong feeling of "doing my part to serve and protect our country". I truley believe that many, if not most, of todays enlistees do so out of this same moral conviction.

penchief
08-25-2008, 07:23 AM
I agree with every single sentiment you're making except I think he has every right to wear THAT particular badge of honor any way he wishes. It doesn't mean I support, or advocate anyone else supporting his bid for the White House. I just don 't agree with anyone taking swipes at him for that. Everything BUT that IMO.

Too bad John Kerry wasn't afforded the same respect. What republicans did to Kerry was far worse than questioning how one's Viet Nam War experience makes him more qualified to make sound policy judgements.

And for McCain and republicans to act with indignation as if raising that question is offensive seems awfully hypocritical after the Swiftboating of Kerry's honorable wartime service.

Color Red
08-25-2008, 07:33 AM
Fantastic! I wish he'd tell more about his POW experience. After John Kerry pounded us with is "service in Vietnam" talk last campaign, I assumed that McCain would do a relatively comparitive reflection on his service. It's not that that experience qualifies you to be POTUS; it's that it is a piece of an extensive and deep life experience that overwhelmingly better qualifies a candidate than dinking around in the U.S. Senate the last couple of years. Politics aside, in voting for McCain, we have a chance to vote for a real American hero.

Sully
08-25-2008, 09:05 AM
I've looked for the clip, but SNL clips are hard to get ahold of...
But years ago, Steve Forbes was on SNL, and (as I recall) there was a skit where all the Republican candidates were meeting for lunch. It was pretty funny. But the funniest part was when the McCain character brought up that he was a POW, and one of the other pres candidates starts mocking him, "Oh really? You were a POW? I'd NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE! THAT IS COMPLETELY NEW TO ME!"

I know it doesn't come across as funny in type, but I always remember that when he brings it up, because at the time it made me laugh.

Garcia Bronco
08-25-2008, 09:27 AM
Good for him. He should. Being a POW certainly qualifies him to be commander-in-chief. It means he's made the same commitment and sacriface to serve his country like those he would ask to do the same, and anyone contending otherwise is FOS. Ultimately these people claim that it doesn't matter because Obama hasn't served a day of his life in the Military. Being a POW doesn't mean that he'll be the best on Domestic issues nor foreign policy, but sure as hell means he understands what it's like to fight in a war whether you agree with the war in question or not.

J Diddy
08-25-2008, 09:30 AM
Good for him. He should. Being a POW certainly qualifies him to be commander-in-chief. It means he's made the same commitment and sacriface to serve his country like those he would ask to do the same, and anyone contending otherwise is FOS. Ultimately these people claim that it doesn't matter because Obama hasn't served a day of his life in the Military. Being a POW doesn't mean that he'll be the best on Domestic issues nor foreign policy, but sure as hell means he understands what it's like to fight in a war whether you agree with the war in question or not.

Yeah, how about we don't get into wars

penguinz
08-25-2008, 09:50 AM
In and of itself, it doesn't. The leadership and determination he showed in the face of it does, IMO.So attempting suicide makes him a great leader?

Garcia Bronco
08-25-2008, 10:02 AM
Yeah, how about we don't get into wars


Even Obama wants to get involved in African conflicts and wants to bring national resources to bare on it. That could mean many different things, but the last thing he needs to be prepared to do is send troops in. Are you committed to those ideas.

Donger
08-25-2008, 10:28 AM
So attempting suicide makes him a great leader?

No. Refusing to be sent home alone does.

DaKCMan AP
08-25-2008, 10:29 AM
Being a POW certainly qualifies him to be commander-in-chief.

:spock:

penguinz
08-25-2008, 10:30 AM
No. Refusing to be sent home alone does.I can not disagree with that but the fact that the man tried to kill himself during hard times (very hard times) is a much bigger negative on the ability to lead than refusing to come home alone is a positive.

Donger
08-25-2008, 10:35 AM
I can not disagree with that but the fact that the man tried to kill himself during hard times (very hard times) is a much bigger negative on the ability to lead than refusing to come home alone is a positive.

I don't think you or anyone who hasn't been tortured can make that determination.

penguinz
08-25-2008, 11:14 AM
I don't think you or anyone who hasn't been tortured can make that determination.And one who has been tortured for 5+ years should not run a country. PTSD is a fact of life for POW's and can flare up decades after the event that caused it.

mlyonsd
08-25-2008, 11:18 AM
And one who has been tortured for 5+ years should not run a country. PTSD is a fact of life for POW's and can flare up decades after the event that caused it.

Wow.

Donger
08-25-2008, 11:21 AM
And one who has been tortured for 5+ years should not run a country. PTSD is a fact of life for POW's and can flare up decades after the event that caused it.

How do you know that McCain has been diagnosed with PTSD?

penguinz
08-25-2008, 11:31 AM
How do you know that McCain has been diagnosed with PTSD?I did not say he has been diagnosed with it. PTSD , as the government defines it, can pop up during or decades after the traumatic event. Attempt to commit suicide is a big red flag for this condition.

Donger
08-25-2008, 11:35 AM
I did not say he has been diagnosed with it. PTSD , as the government defines it, can pop up during or decades after the traumatic event. Attempt to commit suicide is a big red flag for this condition.

Ah, you are speculating that McCain has it?

mlyonsd
08-25-2008, 11:37 AM
I wish it would pop up when Harry Reid was standing next to him.

irishjayhawk
08-25-2008, 11:38 AM
Good for him. He should. Being a POW certainly qualifies him to be commander-in-chief. It means he's made the same commitment and sacriface to serve his country like those he would ask to do the same, and anyone contending otherwise is FOS. Ultimately these people claim that it doesn't matter because Obama hasn't served a day of his life in the Military. Being a POW doesn't mean that he'll be the best on Domestic issues nor foreign policy, but sure as hell means he understands what it's like to fight in a war whether you agree with the war in question or not.

And to think you were lecturing me on confusing patriotism and nationalism.


Merely being a POW qualifies you for CIC? Seriously?

penguinz
08-25-2008, 11:42 AM
Ah, you are speculating that McCain has it?No. I am just saying it is something that has to be seriously looked at when considering the man as a leader of our country.

Does he have it now? Probably not.

Will he develop it in the future? Who knows.

jettio
08-25-2008, 11:52 AM
Good for him. He should. Being a POW certainly qualifies him to be commander-in-chief. It means he's made the same commitment and sacriface to serve his country like those he would ask to do the same, and anyone contending otherwise is FOS. Ultimately these people claim that it doesn't matter because Obama hasn't served a day of his life in the Military. Being a POW doesn't mean that he'll be the best on Domestic issues nor foreign policy, but sure as hell means he understands what it's like to fight in a war whether you agree with the war in question or not.


McCain went along with the lies used to sell the War in Iraq because he thought it would be a cakewalk.

In 2004, McCain went along with the B*sh lie to "stay the course" and keep pretending that progress was being made when no progress at all was being made.

How did McCain's POW experience help him make the right decisions?

McCain has no shot at winning, but if our country actually did not vote for the better guy just because of racism, our country will find out just how big a mistake it is to let racism defeat common sense.

GOP can take a vacation and watch what it is like to have a smart and honorable president with a democratic majority congress that would not exist except for the awful job that the GOP did with their opportunity to call the shots.

BucEyedPea
08-25-2008, 12:44 PM
How did McCain's POW experience help him make the right decisions?

Jail does wonders for some folks.:D