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harpes
08-24-2008, 12:46 PM
Always been a huge fan of Gun. I've loved his passion and desire to win but has the game changed in a way that it has outgrown Gun? The last couple of years it has looked like we are just not prepared. I know there is a lot of youth but almost of the youth but I didnt see Miami with much more experiance that KC and they were lightyears ahead of us.

Hydrae
08-24-2008, 12:49 PM
I have always been a big fan of Gun's as well but I think that is myopia about the late 90's more than anything else. I have not been able to see any of the games this preseason but if tackling is STILL an issue I have to start looking at Gun. There is no way that tackling should ever be an issue at this level but it seems to be consistent with Gun's defenses.

Count me as being off Gun's bandwagon.

Baby Lee
08-24-2008, 12:52 PM
It seemed last year, if we had EVERY ONE of his top guys in there, we did well. But lose one, Edwards most glaringly, and it all fell apart.

Skip Towne
08-24-2008, 12:53 PM
Gun was good when he had Marty around to hold his hand. Since then, not so much.

Nightfyre
08-24-2008, 12:56 PM
Gun was good when he had Marty around to hold his hand. Since then, not so much.

I think this could be very accurate, sadly. I too have fallen off. :(

MOhillbilly
08-24-2008, 01:20 PM
hes carls yes man. always has been. move on.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 01:21 PM
It is still kind of sad that they hired him back after getting shit canned as coach here. Not surprising, but sad.

el borracho
08-24-2008, 01:24 PM
Nothing wrong with his ability to scheme but I doubt today's player responds very well to the yelling. It would also help if his GM could supply him with a decent line but I know all the haters will say that is just making excuses.

B_Ambuehl
08-24-2008, 01:26 PM
I say he's earned his keep with the way his defense has played in a few road games the past couple of years. He's basically shut down Payton Manning twice with an over-matched defense. Not too many coordinators can say that.

MOhillbilly
08-24-2008, 01:28 PM
gun has never been anything better than a position coach. the only reason gun has kept his job is because he sucks carls dick just the way carl tells gun to suck it.

dj56dt58
08-24-2008, 01:42 PM
I say he's earned his keep with the way his defense has played in a few road games the past couple of years. He's basically shut down Payton Manning twice with an over-matched defense. Not too many coordinators can say that.

but..but..Gun sucks. he cant coach the defensze no more!!11

In case you forgot..we don't exactly have all world talent on D..especially with Allen gone. If anything, It's Gun thats made this defense as good as it is

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2008, 02:34 PM
10 years ago.

He hasn't coached what I'd personally consider a great defense since 1997.

That a long ride on that rep.

TrickyNicky
08-24-2008, 02:38 PM
Its pretty easy to get a rep as a great blitz coach when you had DT on the edge and great interior D-linemen, eh?

mikey23545
08-24-2008, 02:39 PM
<b>Has they game surpased Gun?</b>

Always been a huge fan of Gun. I've loved his passion and desire to win but has the game changed in a way that it has outgrown Gun? The last couple of years it has looked like we are just not prepared. I know there is a lot of youth but almost of the youth but I didnt see Miami with much more experiance that KC and they were lightyears ahead of us.

Hass spellink surpazzed harpes?

jlscorpio
08-24-2008, 02:46 PM
Yes it has passed him by. I'm now a big fan of young coaches, particularly when it comes to OC/DC's. Retread/Fired HC's rarely work when they take a step backwards. I beieve you've gotta have young guys that are hungry to get to the next level, that will TEACH and use aggressive playcalling with the primary goal of actually WINNING the damn game.

PastorMikH
08-24-2008, 02:54 PM
Has the game passed Gun by?

Actually, I thought they used to have to wrap up to tackle in the old days too.

KCChiefsFan88
08-24-2008, 02:58 PM
When DT died so did Goonther's career

Otter
08-24-2008, 03:20 PM
The game surpassed Gun, Carl, Herm, Curl and quiet a few others a long time ago. It's like trying to watch my grandfather surf the internet.

Deberg_1990
08-24-2008, 03:57 PM
Im not sure if Gun ever really caught up to the game in the first place.

Ive voiced my displeasure with Gun too many times on this board.

macdawg
08-24-2008, 04:16 PM
Gun is more fit to be a linebackers coach than D coordinator. He is obsessed with the linebacker position, always sounds like we are 1 new LB away from a great defense, etc.

JuicesFlowing
08-24-2008, 04:19 PM
When Greg Robinson was the DC, we were the laughing stock of the league. Gun came back and actually made the D somewhat respectable. Not great, but a lot better. Nobody seems to mention that.

Friendo
08-24-2008, 04:43 PM
Gun was good when he had Marty around to hold his hand. Since then, not so much.

this :thumb:

Bowser
08-24-2008, 04:48 PM
The game surpassed Gun, Carl, Herm, Curl and quiet a few others a long time ago. It's like trying to watch my grandfather surf the internet.

Nice, accurate summary.

macdawg
08-24-2008, 05:10 PM
Gun plays a tighter style of defense than Greg Robinson did with more blitzes.

Improved against the run and got even worse against the pass. At least all the weird zones and crap that Robinson had us doing led to some INT's.

I think Robinsons last year here was 03, we were 13-3 and the defense: Allowed 332 points (20.8/g), 19th.

In 04 Gun came back and we were definetely better against the run and worse against the pass. Allowed 435 points (27.2/g), 29th.

tk13
08-24-2008, 05:20 PM
I don't think he's done a horrible job. This defense has improved because of him, I think. But his two biggest problems are that one, he has probably ran his mouth a bit too much in hyping things, and the other is that he has had a lot of control over the players we bring in... so he definitely has to be held responsible for some of our defensive flops (i.e. Kendrell Bell).

CoMoChief
08-24-2008, 05:37 PM
I love the idiots on this board who think our tackling problems rest on Guns shoulders

Gun cant play, he coordinates what the defense does. The majority of the time he puts players in position to make plays.

It's not Gun's fault we have no tackling abilities whatsoever outside of Flowers and DJ.

CoMoChief
08-24-2008, 05:41 PM
Gun plays a tighter style of defense than Greg Robinson did with more blitzes.

Improved against the run and got even worse against the pass. At least all the weird zones and crap that Robinson had us doing led to some INT's.

I think Robinsons last year here was 03, we were 13-3 and the defense: Allowed 332 points (20.8/g), 19th.

In 04 Gun came back and we were definetely better against the run and worse against the pass. Allowed 435 points (27.2/g), 29th.

Guns and GRobs defenses were completely different btw.

Gun loves man to man, GRob ran ****in zones that didnt make any sense.

dj56dt58
08-24-2008, 05:42 PM
I love the idiots on this board who think our tackling problems rest on Guns shoulders

Gun cant play, he coordinates what the defense does. The majority of the time he puts players in position to make plays.

It's not Gun's fault we have no tackling abilities whatsoever outside of Flowers and DJ.

right..Gun's job is to teach schemes and techniques to younger players..at this level, the ability to tackle should already be there..

Count Zarth
08-24-2008, 05:43 PM
By the way, this thread title is horrible. Did you graduate grade school?

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-24-2008, 05:46 PM
To say that the game surpassed him would indicate that at one point he was either ahead of or caught up with the game.

Therefore, I say f*ck no.

macdawg
08-24-2008, 06:21 PM
CoMoChief what doesn't make sense, someone above me typed that it was a good thing we had Gun to replace G-Rob.

I disagree b/c our defense was actually worse when Gun replaced Robinson and said that all the weird zones Robinson had us running at least caused a lot of INT's.

36 interceptions in 03. 13 interceptions in 04.

Also 2003 = Allowed 332 points (20.8/g), 19th.

2004 = Allowed 435 points (27.2/g), 29th.

King_Chief_Fan
08-24-2008, 06:31 PM
fire up the internet and give him his virtual pink slip...........but make sure Herm and Carl get theres also.

boogblaster
08-24-2008, 08:24 PM
Gun isn't in over his head .. he doesn't have the Dline to get push to make a team change their attack .. we also haven't started our whole first-team D yet .. also losing Allen will show its ugly head this year ....

ChiefsCountry
08-24-2008, 08:29 PM
Gun can scheme to slow down Manning which is pretty amazing fact.

Count Zarth
08-24-2008, 08:36 PM
Gun can scheme to slow down Manning which is pretty amazing fact.

I don't really agree with this. Last year we shut down Indy, but they had a ton of offensive parts missing, including their left tackle.

Mecca
08-24-2008, 08:46 PM
Gun isn't in over his head .. he doesn't have the Dline to get push to make a team change their attack .. we also haven't started our whole first-team D yet .. also losing Allen will show its ugly head this year ....

A retard can call plays for a team that has a great DL, great coordinators can scheme to make a defense good with shitty pieces, anyone can call and scheme with great players all over the field.

boogblaster
08-24-2008, 08:53 PM
Thats true Mecca .. but most the winning teams in the NFL right now have decent Dlinemen ....

OctoberFart
08-24-2008, 09:10 PM
Where is GOQUEER to say that the only thing wrong with the 2003 defense was GROB and GOOOONTHER would fix everything?