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View Full Version : Chiefs If there really is a Dictator Carl camp vs Herm camp...


KCChiefsFan88
08-24-2008, 06:39 PM
Put me in the Dictator Carl camp.

For all of the playoff heartbreak and free agency/draft fiascos at least the Chiefs were interesting during most of Dictator Carl's reign.

Herm has made the Chiefs lifeless, unwatchable and completely non-competitive.

Count Alex's Losses
08-24-2008, 06:39 PM
It's called rebuilding.

Get over it!

kstater
08-24-2008, 06:40 PM
8-8!!!!!!!one1!!!!!!

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 06:41 PM
That one playoff win since 93 has been quite enjoyable. How many has Herman won during that time?

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 06:44 PM
That one playoff win since 93 has been quite enjoyable. How many has Herman one during that time?

2 in 5 years, including a pasting of the Colts.

KCChiefsFan88
08-24-2008, 06:46 PM
It's called rebuilding.

Get over it!

The term "rebuilding" usually implies BUILDING towards something.

With a miserable offense, an NFL Europe-caliber starting QB and a trainwreck of an offensive line the only thing Herm's Chiefs are building towards is 0-16.

Also looking at the Chiefs roster, it would be interesting for a Herm supporter to make the case for any of Herm's draft picks to make a star-like impact this season.

Tamba Hali looks like the second coming of Vonnie Holliday. Tank and Turk look like Sims and Siavii. And Brodie Croyle looks like Pat Barnes and Matt Blundin.

The only draft pick of the Herm era that looks like a potential Pro Bowl-caliber player is Bowe, but with no #2 (or #3 for that matter) WR to take the focus of opposing teams' coverages away from him and a garbage starting QB... Bowe's Pro Bowl chances will be hampered significantly.

MGRS13
08-24-2008, 06:47 PM
Has it gotten this bad around here? You guys are basically arguing whats better Poop with corn or poop with peanuts....................they both suck who gives a shit will all be better when they are both gone.

kstater
08-24-2008, 06:48 PM
The term "rebuilding" usually implies BUILDING towards something.

.

How quickly would you expect this to take?

Count Alex's Losses
08-24-2008, 06:48 PM
Gotta love KCChiefsfan88, proclaiming 80 percent of our picks busts after three preseason games.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 06:48 PM
How quickly would you expect this to take?

ONE YEAR and an 8-8 RECORD!!!!!!!!

kstater
08-24-2008, 06:49 PM
He's right though. They should have traded for Brady, Moss, and the entire NFC Pro Bowl OL.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 06:50 PM
Gotta love KCChiefsfan88, proclaiming 80 percent of our picks busts after three preseason games.

It's what he does.

I'm surprised it took him this long to jump on the pile.

blueballs
08-24-2008, 06:52 PM
I think Herm will be appreciated more in retrospect
a few years down the line
when he will probably be long gone

kstater
08-24-2008, 06:53 PM
I think Herm will be appreciated more in retrospect
a few years down the line
when he will probably be long gone

But he got rid of the greatest offense EVAH.

BigRock
08-24-2008, 07:06 PM
I bet Herm's camp is like a Carnival Cruise.

Carl's camp is like Auschwitz.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 07:08 PM
I bet Herm's camp is like a Carnival Cruise.

Carl's camp is like Auschwitz.

ROFL

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-24-2008, 07:10 PM
I bet Herm's camp is like a Carnival Cruise.

Carl's camp is like Auschwitz.

As long as Carl's camp allows him to give free BJ's to Dicky V, I doubt he'd mind.

Zouk
08-24-2008, 07:17 PM
2 in 5 years, including a pasting of the Colts.

Actually it's 3 playoff appearances in 5 years with the Jets, and 1 playoff appearance in 2 years with the Chiefs. 4 playoff appearances in total, more than 50% of all seasons he has coached.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Actually it's 3 playoff appearances in 5 years with the Jets, and 1 playoff appearance in 2 years with the Chiefs. 4 playoff appearances in total, more than 50% of all seasons he has coached.

I thought the question was about playoff WINS?

The Bad Guy
08-24-2008, 07:39 PM
Put me in the Dictator Carl camp.

For all of the playoff heartbreak and free agency/draft fiascos at least the Chiefs were interesting during most of Dictator Carl's reign.

Herm has made the Chiefs lifeless, unwatchable and completely non-competitive.

No one gives a shit.

Who hired Herm?

Carl.

If you hate Herm, you have to hate Carl as well.

Now kindly go back into your hole in Miami.

The Bad Guy
08-24-2008, 07:40 PM
The term "rebuilding" usually implies BUILDING towards something.

With a miserable offense, an NFL Europe-caliber starting QB and a trainwreck of an offensive line the only thing Herm's Chiefs are building towards is 0-16.

Also looking at the Chiefs roster, it would be interesting for a Herm supporter to make the case for any of Herm's draft picks to make a star-like impact this season.

Tamba Hali looks like the second coming of Vonnie Holliday. Tank and Turk look like Sims and Siavii. And Brodie Croyle looks like Pat Barnes and Matt Blundin.

The only draft pick of the Herm era that looks like a potential Pro Bowl-caliber player is Bowe, but with no #2 (or #3 for that matter) WR to take the focus of opposing teams' coverages away from him and a garbage starting QB... Bowe's Pro Bowl chances will be hampered significantly.

So Tony Gonzalez doesn't take coverages away?

You are a ****ing moron. Plain and simple.

ChiefsCountry
08-24-2008, 08:15 PM
I was wondering when this retard would start a thread.

FringeNC
08-24-2008, 08:27 PM
It's called rebuilding.

Get over it!

Rebuilding is not a get of jail free card. Take for instance Green Bay. After many winning seasons, they collapsed to 4-12 in 2005, rebounded to 8-8 the next year, and were 13-3 the following year, and had the youngest team in the league.

Ummm...we had some winning seasons, were 4-12 last year..........

I wouldn't mind the rebuilding and losing going on if I had ANY hope that Herm and Carl and Gun had a f'n clue. They don't. The one thing I'll say nice about Herm is that he will at least look at a consensus draft sheet, and not try to show the rest of the league that he is a genius, a la Carl.

Zouk
08-24-2008, 08:27 PM
I thought the question was about playoff WINS?

Sorry - extremely bad reading comprehension on my part.

Count Alex's Losses
08-24-2008, 09:22 PM
Rebuilding is not a get of jail free card. Take for instance Green Bay. After many winning seasons, they collapsed to 4-12 in 2005, rebounded to 8-8 the next year, and were 13-3 the following year, and had the youngest team in the league.

They had Favre. Huge difference.

SNR
08-24-2008, 10:23 PM
88 never comes up with an excuse to why Vermeil had less success than Herm in 5 years with a lights out offense. If offense is what it's all about... well, nevermind. It's just easier to call 88 stupid.

dallaschiefsfan
08-25-2008, 12:37 AM
I'm on whoever side results in BOTH leaving KC at the earliest possible moment...

KcMizzou
08-25-2008, 12:41 AM
Ah, so we have to choose between Carl and Herm? The lesser of two evils?

I'll take Herm.

SPchief
08-25-2008, 12:43 AM
Has this guy ever started a thread that was usefull?

TinyEvel
08-25-2008, 12:49 AM
This is like asking if you'd rather have acid poured in your eyes, or knitting needles poked through them.

Though, I am really beginning to think the Herm will NEVER coach a team to the SuperBowl. He just doesn't allow enough adaptation to the other team's style. He plays ball his way. Pretty damn easy to figure out.
Throw in one error. One injury, one juke by the other team and we lose.

ChiefsCountry
08-25-2008, 12:50 AM
Has this guy ever started a thread that was usefull?

Yeah he did have a good thread bashing WPI.

cookster50
08-25-2008, 06:57 AM
I think Herm will be appreciated more in retrospect
a few years down the line
when he will probably be long gone


Don't tease me like that.

triple
08-25-2008, 07:07 AM
the lack of talent is carl's fault. that is his job. since herm has been here he has infused some good young players. not 53 of them yet, however. not saying herm is a great coach but he doesnt have any bullets in his gun

CupidStunt
08-25-2008, 07:11 AM
the lack of talent is carl's fault. that is his job. since herm has been here he has infused some good young players. not 53 of them yet, however. not saying herm is a great coach but he doesnt have any bullets in his gun

If he did, it'd just backfire on him anyway.

Dave Lane
08-25-2008, 07:18 AM
the lack of talent is carl's fault. that is his job. since herm has been here he has infused some good young players. not 53 of them yet, however. not saying herm is a great coach but he doesnt have any bullets in his gun

Your right the team was 10-6 when he got here and a top 5 offense. Your right totally empty.

Dave

TEX
08-25-2008, 07:48 AM
Put me in the Dictator Carl camp.

For all of the playoff heartbreak and free agency/draft fiascos at least the Chiefs were interesting during most of Dictator Carl's reign.

Herm has made the Chiefs lifeless, unwatchable and completely non-competitive.

Yep. It's the last part that gets me. Furthermore, instead of getting better with time, they're getting worse. There is not one part of the team that is solid. Having said that, I must say that I'm not surprised. From the second he was hired, I knew he would take us where we are now.

Speaking of Herm and all these divided camp rumors, how come cotraversy seems to follow him?

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 07:49 AM
Furthermore, instead of getting better with time, they're getting worse. There is not one part of the team that is solid.

WHAT THE ****?

When Herm got here there was almost NO YOUNG TALENT WHATSOEVER.

What did you expect? Herm was going to produce a playoff team out of thin air?

He did his best with Dick's retreads and now has the foresight to blow it all up and start over. That's exactly what we needed.

By the way, our defensive tackle rotation is better than it's been in over a decade. The running back depth chart is pretty ****ing solid, too.

TEX
08-25-2008, 07:52 AM
I think Herm will be appreciated more in retrospect
a few years down the line
when he will probably be long gone

Yep. I'll appreciate the fact that he's GONE for GOOD for years to come.

TEX
08-25-2008, 07:57 AM
WHAT THE ****?

When Herm got here there was almost NO YOUNG TALENT WHATSOEVER.

What did you expect? Herm was going to produce a playoff team out of thin air?

He did his best with Dick's retreads and now has the foresight to blow it all up and start over. That's exactly what we needed.

By the way, our defensive tackle rotation is better than it's been in over a decade. The running back depth chart is pretty ****ing solid, too.


I'm done listening to you - you CHANGE with the wind just like Herm. I respect what you do, but as close as you are to things, youre pretty darn blind at times.

Any quality depth on the D-line is cancelled out by our lack of it when it comes to the LB's. Speaking of the RB depth chart, you had a problem with L J backing up Holmes???

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 08:10 AM
I'm done listening to you - you CHANGE with the wind just like Herm. I respect what you do, but as close as you are to things, youre pretty darn blind.

That's great.

Why should things be better? Herm is literally building from the ground up. Give me one good reason why the Chiefs should be better right now than when Herm got here.

TEX
08-25-2008, 08:18 AM
That's great.

Why should things be better? Herm is literally building from the ground up. Give me one good reason why the Chiefs should be better right now than when Herm got here.

There is not a good reason why our Special Teams are still among the worst in the league. Herm has had time to get a legit # 2 WR. He's also had time to get a LB who can actually play...

Rooster
08-25-2008, 08:18 AM
How quickly would you expect this to take?

About three preseason games.:rolleyes:

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 08:24 AM
There is no reason why our Special Teams are still among the worst in the league.

Um, they aren't. The coverage teams are actually pretty good, and were solid last year. Punter of course is solid, I think we have found a kicker and a kick returner in Savage.


Herm has had time to get a legit # 2 WR. No he hasn't. His first year there was no way they were going to get rid of Parker, and you can say the same about his second year. We should be thanking our lucky stars that they replaced Kennison with Bowe as quickly as they did.


He's also had time to get LBs. He misjudged our OL talent going intoi last season.How do you know Pat Thomas and Demorrio Williams aren't good LBs? Williams definitely appears to be the real deal. And the OL talent last year is all on Carl and Solari. That was their call.

Chiefnj2
08-25-2008, 08:27 AM
Typcial Herm ball fondler - any good personnel moves are a result of Herm. Any bad moves are Peterson's fault. If a young player received playing time right away it was because of Herm. If a young player did not receive playing time right away it was because of Carl.

TEX
08-25-2008, 08:40 AM
Um, they aren't. The coverage teams are actually pretty good, and were solid last year. Punter of course is solid, I think we have found a kicker and a kick returner in Savage.

No he hasn't. His first year there was no way they were going to get rid of Parker, and you can say the same about his second year. We should be thanking our lucky stars that they replaced Kennison with Bowe as quickly as they did.

How do you know Pat Thomas and Demorrio Williams aren't good LBs? Williams definitely appears to be the real deal. And the OL talent last year is all on Carl and Solari. That was their Carl.

Um - our kicker sucks. Punter came with the team. I'll give you Savage

YOU can say the same thing about Parker year 2, and you have, and you are wrong. Parker should have been gone year 2 when you factor in all the questions surrounding that guy from day 1. Webb can't play yet Herm seems to be married to the guy. Darling???

I've seen them play (when they play) I trust my eyes. They are all no-talent-nobodys. You left 2 out - Harris, who Herm brought here sucks after sucking everyplace else. Donnie can't stay on the field.

IMO, no reason is going to be good enough for you. We just don't see things the same way.

TEX
08-25-2008, 08:42 AM
Typcial Herm ball fondler - any good personnel moves are a result of Herm. Any bad moves are Peterson's fault. If a young player received playing time right away it was because of Herm. If a young player did not receive playing time right away it was because of Carl.

You are EXACTLY right. Herm is NOT accountable for any of it and it blows my mind. What a freaking nightmare. :shake:

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 08:46 AM
Um - our kicker sucks. Punter came with the team. I'll give you Savage

YOU can say the same thing about Parker year 2, and you have, and you are wrong. Parker should have been gone year 2 when you factor in all the questions surrounding that guy from day 1. Webb can't play yet Herm seems to be married to the guy. Darling???

I've seen them play (when they play) I trust my eyes. They are all no-talent-nobodys. You left 2 out - Harris, who Herm brought here sucks after sucking everyplace else. Donnie can't stay on the field.

IMO, no reason is going to be good enough for you. We just don't see things the same way.

Sorry dude. There really is no reason for the team to better than it was in 2005. The cupboard was ****ing bare.

Herm spent two years diddling around with veterans at Carl's behest. When it didn't work out FINALLY he got the freedom to build it from the ground up.

There's not a single goodamn reason for the team to be better than it was when Herm got here. Not ONE.

If we're not a better team in 2009 and beyond, then you'll have a reason to bitch.

TEX
08-25-2008, 08:53 AM
Sorry dude. There really is no reason for the team to better than it was in 2005. The cupboard was ****ing bare.

Herm spent two years diddling around with veterans at Carl's behest. When it didn't work out FINALLY he got the freedom to build it from the ground up.

There's not a single goodamn reason for the team to be better than it was when Herm got here. Not ONE.

If we're not a better team in 2009 and beyond, then you'll have a reason to bitch.

Sorry dude - there is. I just gave you 4 of them. We aren't even competitive and if Herm new WTF he was doing there wouldn't be a "Single g*damn reason" for THAT.

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 09:00 AM
We aren't even competitive.

Why should we be?

THE CUPBOARD WAS BARE.

You act like Herm should have assembled a playoff team with three drafts. We're still trying to figure out if we have a damn QB!

Right now is not the year to bitch. We're going through growing pains. Herm needs time. He's finally on the clock now that Carl's time is up.

TEX
08-25-2008, 09:05 AM
Why should we be?

THE CUPBOARD WAS BARE.

You act like Herm should have assembled a playoff team with three drafts. We're still trying to figure out if we have a damn QB!

Right now is not the year to bitch. We're going through growing pains. Herm needs time. He's finally on the clock now that Carl's time is up.

No I don't. We are not competitive Claythan. To me that is a problem. I've given you examples - my opinion is not without thought. I understand your point as well. IMO, you're too close to the situation to be without bias.

Chiefnj2
08-25-2008, 09:11 AM
Herm spent two years diddling around with veterans at Carl's behest. When it didn't work out FINALLY he got the freedom to build it from the ground up.


Bullshit. Herm didn't have the balls to come in and change a top offense even though it was declining. Herm said numerous times that he'd have to be stupid to change things.

Fish
08-25-2008, 09:13 AM
I thought the question was about playoff WINS?

Actually the question was about playoff "ones"....

How many has Herman one during that time?

Totally different....

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 10:22 AM
Bullshit. Herm didn't have the balls to come in and change a top offense even though it was declining. Herm said numerous times that he'd have to be stupid to change things.

Do you really think Carl would have let Herm change the offense?

Solari was Carl's pick for OC.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-25-2008, 10:25 AM
Actually the question was about playoff "ones"....



Totally different....

Whoops ROFL

Chiefnj2
08-25-2008, 10:32 AM
Do you really think Carl would have let Herm change the offense?

Solari was Carl's pick for OC.

So you are saying that Herm is a liar and a foot shuffling porter worse than the likes of Gunther?

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 10:33 AM
So you are saying that Herm is a liar and a foot shuffling porter worse than the likes of Gunther?

I'm saying Carl was definitely in control Herm's first two years.

J Diddy
08-25-2008, 10:42 AM
I'm saying Carl was definitely in control Herm's first two years.

and not so much now?

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 10:43 AM
and not so much now?

Why do you think everyone is in Herm's camp (according to the most recent article)?

Al Bundy
08-25-2008, 10:47 AM
The term "rebuilding" usually implies BUILDING towards something.

With a miserable offense, an NFL Europe-caliber starting QB and a trainwreck of an offensive line the only thing Herm's Chiefs are building towards is 0-16.

Also looking at the Chiefs roster, it would be interesting for a Herm supporter to make the case for any of Herm's draft picks to make a star-like impact this season.

Tamba Hali looks like the second coming of Vonnie Holliday. Tank and Turk look like Sims and Siavii. And Brodie Croyle looks like Pat Barnes and Matt Blundin.

The only draft pick of the Herm era that looks like a potential Pro Bowl-caliber player is Bowe, but with no #2 (or #3 for that matter) WR to take the focus of opposing teams' coverages away from him and a garbage starting QB... Bowe's Pro Bowl chances will be hampered significantly.

You have to treat it like the Royals... 10+ years of horrible drafting is not going to be made up for in 1-2 drafts.

ChiefsCountry
08-25-2008, 10:48 AM
For all purposes basically the last two years are just thrown out. Face it in year one, everybody from management to fans would have had a fit if Herm would have came in and cleaned house with the offense. Of course Willie Roaf did that in a hurry but thats beside the point. Last year they should have blown the whole thing up but they didnt bc remember they were a playoff team the year before and right or wrong if you were a playoff team a year before you think you should be better the next season. Another thing is this now Clark's baby, more than likely out of respect of your parents you arent going to make major changes in their business after they die for a year. So in a sense, this is the year of new beginnings for the whole franchise. Herm is basically a brand new coach in a sense (he has this year and next no matter what, unless something drastic happens this year), they got a brand new roster of young guys, and new philopsophy throughout the organization. Carl is more of a figurehead in the organization now, Clark is the voice of the organization. Its a different Chiefs team really, I really dont see how you guys cant see this.

J Diddy
08-25-2008, 10:49 AM
Why do you think everyone is in Herm's camp (according to the most recent article)?


unfortunately this fish don't bite on the unsubstantiated claims and secret sources

I'll buy it when Clark says it

Count Alex's Losses
08-25-2008, 10:51 AM
I just think it's absolutely ludicrous for people to say "oh well all we have done is gotten worse since Herm arrived."

Duh? We were at the tail end of Trent Green's productive run. Of course you're going to get worse when you don't have a real quarterback and are forced to go with a journeyman like Huard or a young guy like Croyle. Of course you're going to get worse when the offensive line sits in shambles and your general manager tries to patch it with shitty veterans.

Chiefnj2
08-25-2008, 10:52 AM
For all purposes basically the last two years are just thrown out. Face it in year one, everybody from management to fans would have had a fit if Herm would have came in and cleaned house with the offense. Of course Willie Roaf did that in a hurry but thats beside the point. Last year they should have blown the whole thing up but they didnt bc remember they were a playoff team the year before and right or wrong if you were a playoff team a year before you think you should be better the next season. Another thing is this now Clark's baby, more than likely out of respect of your parents you arent going to make major changes in their business after they die for a year. So in a sense, this is the year of new beginnings for the whole franchise. Herm is basically a brand new coach in a sense (he has this year and next no matter what, unless something drastic happens this year), they got a brand new roster of young guys, and new philopsophy throughout the organization. Carl is more of a figurehead in the organization now, Clark is the voice of the organization. Its a different Chiefs team really, I really dont see how you guys cant see this.

But he isn't a new coach. Herm had 14 draft picks under his belt. He had free agents of his choosing those first two years. Those guys should produce now.

keg in kc
08-25-2008, 11:00 AM
I see the True Fans™ have spoken.

Rebuild? Schmebuild. Get some old vets, baby, it's 8-8 or bust!

J Diddy
08-25-2008, 11:01 AM
I see the True Fans™ have spoken.

8-8 or bust!


the trade mark thing is classic

:D

Reerun_KC
08-25-2008, 11:01 AM
the trade mark thing is classic

:D
ROFL