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View Full Version : Chiefs Chiefs $36 million under the cap this year. Leads the NFL.


BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 11:23 AM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/

Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $31.9 million
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $27.8 million
Green Bay Packers (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $24.7 million
Buffalo Bills (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $20.9 million
Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $19.0 million
New Orleans Saints (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $17.7 million
Miami Dolphins (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $16.2 million
Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $13.3 million
New York Giants (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $12.3 million
Tennessee Titans (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $11.8 million
Dallas Cowboys (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $9.6 million
Cleveland Browns $9.4 million
Chicago Bears $9.2 million
San Diego Chargers (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $9.2 million
Seattle Seahawks $8.8 million
Atlanta Falcons $8.2 million
St. Louis Rams, $8.1 million
Carolina Panthers $8.0 million
Indianapolis Colts $7.5 million
Baltimore Ravens $7.0 million
San Francisco 49ers (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $7.0 million
New England Patriots (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $6.9 million
Cincinnati Bengals (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/25/salary-cap-numbers-as-of-august-25/#) $6.4 million
Denver Broncos $5.9 million
Minnesota Vikings $5.0 million
Houston Texans $4.9 million
Oakland Raiders $4.2 million
Detroit Lions $4.0 million
Arizona Cardinals $3.5 million
New York Jets $1.9 million
Washington Redskins $1.8 million
Pittsburgh Steelers $1.7 million

MGRS13
08-25-2008, 11:24 AM
My thread title is better.

DaKCMan AP
08-25-2008, 11:25 AM
WHY AREN'T WE SPENDING OUR CAP MONEY!!!!!!! WE SHOULD HAVE SIGNED FREE AGENTS!!!!! CARL AND HERM DON'T WANT TO WIN!!!!! WAU@RU)@()@~@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /true fan

Bowser
08-25-2008, 11:25 AM
My thread title is better.

Yeah, but BRC saved you from hearing from Tribal Warfare about not posting the link. ;)

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 11:27 AM
This is just BS for the hunts to put that much money in their pockets.

I wouldn't have wanted thrm to go out and buy FA's over the summer this year. Wouldn't have made a difference. But............

They could be using that $36 million this year to pay off Tony G, LJ's and Surtain's contracts early. We could then use that $36 mil that doesn't carry over to next year now.

We free up cap space for 2009 and 2010 to pursue FA's and sign DJ to a new contract.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 11:28 AM
My thread title is better.
What thread title?

Bowser
08-25-2008, 11:29 AM
Well, this partly explains how we got nearly all of the rookies in camp on time.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 11:29 AM
WHY AREN'T WE SPENDING OUR CAP MONEY!!!!!!! WE SHOULD HAVE SIGNED FREE AGENTS!!!!! CARL AND HERM DON'T WANT TO WIN!!!!! WAU@RU)@()@~@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /true fan
see my point in post #5.

Bowser
08-25-2008, 11:30 AM
This is just BS for the hunts to put that much money in their pockets.

I wouldn't have wanted thrm to go out and buy FA's over the summer this year. Wouldn't have made a difference. But............

They could be using that $36 million this year to pay off Tony G, LJ's and Surtain's contracts early. We could then use that $36 mil that doesn't carry over to next year now.

We free up cap space for 2009 and 2010 to oursue FA's and sign DJ to a new contract.

You and your common sense, talking all crazy like.

Phobia
08-25-2008, 11:32 AM
They could be using that $36 million this year to pay off Tony G, LJ's and Surtain's contracts early. We could then use that $36 mil that doesn't carry over to next year now.


Convert them to guaranteed money contracts? What happens if one of them is hit by a bus?

L.A. Chieffan
08-25-2008, 11:33 AM
This is just BS for the hunts to put that much money in their pockets.

I wouldn't have wanted thrm to go out and buy FA's over the summer this year. Wouldn't have made a difference. But............

They could be using that $36 million this year to pay off Tony G, LJ's and Surtain's contracts early. We could then use that $36 mil that doesn't carry over to next year now.

We free up cap space for 2009 and 2010 to pursue FA's and sign DJ to a new contract.

Yeah but according to the other article they are going to end up spending it anyways. Maybe they're collecting interest on it as long as they can.

Dylan
08-25-2008, 11:42 AM
Seems like a good time for the Kansas City Star to press Peterson for answers.

And then press him again and again.

What are they saving for?

Bowser
08-25-2008, 11:42 AM
Convert them to guaranteed money contracts? What happens if one of them is hit by a bus?

It's like the powerball; it goes back to the pot.

Bowser
08-25-2008, 11:43 AM
Seems like a good time for the Kansas City Star to press Peterson for answers.

And then press him again and again.

What are they saving for?

Heh. That'll be the day.

Sure-Oz
08-25-2008, 11:43 AM
Any good free agents next year?

MOhillbilly
08-25-2008, 11:45 AM
makes me think the Hunts want the team to suck, kill the thrill of what was and move the team.

Bowser
08-25-2008, 11:46 AM
makes me think the Hunts want the team to suck, kill the thrill of what was and move the team.

You'd think that Lamar would have left strict instructions to his kids forbidding that, but who knows. I've heard Clark loves L.A.

Hog Farmer
08-25-2008, 11:47 AM
At least we're #1 at something!

L.A. Chieffan
08-25-2008, 11:49 AM
Any good free agents next year?

T.O. and T.J. Houshmanzilla....oh and Sippio

dirk digler
08-25-2008, 11:50 AM
From the PFT article it says the Chiefs need to spend more money because they haven't reached the minimum cap floor. I wonder if that is true and if it is they need to lock up some of these guys like DJ...well actually he would be the only one that I think would be worth it.

MOhillbilly
08-25-2008, 11:50 AM
You'd think that Lamar would have left strict instructions to his kids forbidding that, but who knows. I've heard Clark loves L.A.
being that CP seemed ready to get rid of JA and the team is this far under the cap......that should put a chill down any KC supporters spine.

Stinger
08-25-2008, 11:50 AM
....oh and Sippio

He said "good" free agents

L.A. Chieffan
08-25-2008, 11:50 AM
From the PFT article it says the Chiefs need to spend more money because they haven't reached the minimum cap floor. I wonder if that is true and if it is they need to lock up some of these guys like DJ...well actually he would be the only one that I think would be worth it.

Colquitt. Max em out.

Bowser
08-25-2008, 11:53 AM
being that CP seemed ready to get rid of JA and the team is this far under the cap......that should put a chill down any KC supporters spine.

Yeah, makes you wonder, but surely the wouldn't consider it with the rennovations being done? I think they're locked into keeping the Chiefs here for another 25 years or something, since the funding for the rennovations passed. But like I said, who knows.

Hopefully, they are just saving money to make a run at a couple or three big name free agents next year. That would make more sense of it all.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 11:53 AM
Convert them to guaranteed money contracts? What happens if one of them is hit by a bus?
No, I'm saying we pay them the money they are gauranteed next year and or the year after even if they get hit by a bus now. Spend the money elsewhere in 2009 and 2010.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 11:54 AM
hopefully, they are just saving money to make a run at a couple or three big name free agents next year. That would make more sense of it all.
The money doesn't carry over to next year.

They want to save money for next year spend the $36 million now on salaries due in 2009 and 2010.

dirk digler
08-25-2008, 11:54 AM
being that CP seemed ready to get rid of JA and the team is this far under the cap......that should put a chill down any KC supporters spine.

Yep. We could have definitely afforded to pay him and then draft Alberts or Dorsey.

dirk digler
08-25-2008, 11:56 AM
Colquitt. Max em out.

Damn how could I have forgot about our MVP!

ChiefJustice
08-25-2008, 11:56 AM
makes me think the Hunts want the team to suck, kill the thrill of what was and move the team.

That sounds about right.Get the tax payers to shell out money for stadium improvements so that the team can move as soon as they are finished.:mad:

philfree
08-25-2008, 12:04 PM
Yeah the Chiefs have not spent the money on players this year but they have put out $150mil of their own money for the stadium renovation. Cheap mofo's!

PhilFree:arrow:

RustShack
08-25-2008, 12:07 PM
Sign Bentley before the Rams do! They already stole Brown from us, don't let it happen again!

ChiefsCountry
08-25-2008, 12:09 PM
How come the thread title saves 36 million while the actually numbers in the link say 31.9?

Hog Farmer
08-25-2008, 12:12 PM
Yeah the Chiefs have not spent the money on players this year but they have put out $150mil of their own money for the stadium renovation. Cheap mofo's!

PhilFree:arrow:


That's not gonna buy us a championship!

But, the FA market was pretty slim this year. We need to spend that money on an O-line. I think they have a plan.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 12:12 PM
How come the thread title saves 36 million while the actually numbers in the link say 31.9?
typo and now I can't change the title.

ChiefJustice
08-25-2008, 12:12 PM
Yeah the Chiefs have not spent the money on players this year but they have put out $150mil of their own money for the stadium renovation. Cheap mofo's!

PhilFree:arrow:

Wasn't that what Lamar made the family promise to do?
I don't remember hearing about him making Clark promise to keep the team
in KC.

MOhillbilly
08-25-2008, 12:13 PM
Yep. We could have definitely afforded to pay him and then draft Alberts or Dorsey.
we wouldnt have gotten the pick from the vikes.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 12:14 PM
Wasn't that what Lamar made the family promise to do?
I don't remember hearing about him making Clark promise to keep the team
in KC.
They are in a locked no way out lease till 2025.

ChiefJustice
08-25-2008, 12:17 PM
They are in a locked no way out lease till 2025.

I can't decide if that is good news or not.

CupidStunt
08-25-2008, 12:35 PM
Allen was never about money (although making him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history is somewhat laughable). That move will always be dependent on how the picks acquired pan out.

Needless to say, however, the Chiefs should have done more in FA. Young players only, but some players nonetheless. Go out and give Lilja a five-year, $25 million deal so he makes $5 mil. per to the $4M he makes with the Colts now. That's reasonable in this day and age, especially with that much cap space.

Cheap bastards don't deserve our support.

ChiefsCountry
08-25-2008, 12:36 PM
Isnt the Packers model, the one we are following and look where their payroll is?

CoMoChief
08-25-2008, 12:40 PM
How the Jets still have Cap room amazes me.

They probably pulled a Shanny and blackmailed someone in the NFL offices.

ChiefsCountry
08-25-2008, 12:42 PM
How the Jets still have Cap room amazes me.

They probably pulled a Shanny and blackmailed someone in the NFL offices.

Its pretty simple. You backload the contracts and give the signing bonsues up front.

OnTheWarpath58
08-25-2008, 12:50 PM
Isnt the Packers model, the one we are following and look where their payroll is?

Stop it.

You're pissing on everyone's Corn Flakes.

People came to to bitch.

There's no place for logic in this thread.

Please move along.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 01:17 PM
Stop it.

You're pissing on everyone's Corn Flakes.

People came to to bitch.

There's no place for logic in this thread.

Please move along.
I think my opinion is logical is it not?

OnTheWarpath58
08-25-2008, 01:30 PM
I think my opinion is logical is it not?

So they have cap room - BFD.

That tends to happen when you have a roster made primarily of 1st and 2nd year players.

The NFL required them to spend more than the salary floor, so it's not like they are "getting away with anything."

Curious: Do you guys consider Tampa and Green Bay cheap?

kcchiefsus
08-25-2008, 01:41 PM
T.O. and T.J. Houshmanzilla....oh and Sippio

T.O. signed a contract extension this offseason.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 01:43 PM
So they have cap room - BFD.

That tends to happen when you have a roster made primarily of 1st and 2nd year players.

The NFL required them to spend more than the salary floor, so it's not like they are "getting away with anything."

Curious: Do you guys consider Tampa and Green Bay cheap?
$31 million is not small potatoes. What is wrong with using that money now and saving cap space next year?

ChiefsCountry
08-25-2008, 01:47 PM
$31 million is not small potatoes. What is wrong with using that money now and saving cap space next year?

Or wait till next year, when the young players have matured and we will know which holes need plugging for sure.

OnTheWarpath58
08-25-2008, 02:08 PM
$31 million is not small potatoes. What is wrong with using that money now and saving cap space next year?

Who's available to even spend money on?

They'll be some cuts this week we might bring in, but no one that's going to demand much in the way of salary.

Bowser
08-25-2008, 02:10 PM
Jay Feeley, please. Give him a mil and let him kick.

keg in kc
08-25-2008, 02:13 PM
Who's available to even spend money on?There's your answer, and that's been a valid question all offseason.

Free agency isn't what it was 10 years ago. Teams do everything they can to hold on to their stars. The Chiefs don't have any real home-grown studs outside of Gonzalez, they have something like 55 or 60 players on the roster with 3 years or less in the league, and there just aren't that many studs out there in February, not anymore.

The idea here shouldn't be to sell out on old free agents of middling talent, KC needs to stick to the youth movement, do what it takes in 3 or 4 years to hold on to the 'hits' from the draft, and then use the leftover cap space to fill a hole or two.

They're not in cap hell, they're not going to be in cap hell because of stupid moves, and they're finally!!! trying to build the roster the right way.

This is nothing but good.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 02:17 PM
Who's available to even spend money on?

They'll be some cuts this week we might bring in, but no one that's going to demand much in the way of salary.
I'm not for spending money on getting new players I'm for spending the cap money now for exsisting players salaries that will be owed in 2009 or 2010.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 02:18 PM
Or wait till next year, when the young players have matured and we will know which holes need plugging for sure.
The $31 million will be gone and never used. It doesn't carry over.

keg in kc
08-25-2008, 02:19 PM
I'm not for spending money on getting new players I'm for spending the cap money now for exsisting players salaries that will be owed in 2009 or 2010.That's not as feasible (or as productive) with a roster as young as KC's. And my guess is that the guys that could be restructured like that were done months ago anyway.

SithCeNtZ
08-25-2008, 02:20 PM
I'm not for spending money on getting new players I'm for spending the cap money now for exsisting players salaries that will be owed in 2009 or 2010.

Is that even possible? By that I mean, wouldn't every single team be almost exactly at zero cap space every year if what you suggest we do was actually possible? I'm sure the Packers have some guys they could do that to, why aren't they doing it?

keg in kc
08-25-2008, 02:21 PM
Is that even possible? By that I mean, wouldn't every single team be almost exactly at zero cap space every year if what you suggest we do was actually possible? I'm sure the Packers have some guys they could do that to, why aren't they doing it?The usual process is to convert future salary into current signing bonus, which pays the player the same money (immediately), but keeps their cap hits down.

suds79
08-25-2008, 02:21 PM
I'm not as concerned as to what players are getting paid.

When you rebuild with youth, you'll have a lot of $$. Furthermore, I think the majority of big $$ FAs bust anyways.

What I'm concerned about is how well these young players are or how much they improve.

SithCeNtZ
08-25-2008, 02:26 PM
The usual process is to convert future salary into current signing bonus, which pays the player the same money (immediately), but keeps their cap hits down.

I understand the process that he is talking about, but it just seems to me that there is probably something else that factors in to doing something like that. It seems like something that every team would do with any extra amount of money they had, and yet teams don't do that. Otherwise, like I said in my previous post, wouldn't every team be right at zero cap space for the year, every single year?

Chief Faithful
08-25-2008, 02:31 PM
Its pretty simple. You backload the contracts and give the signing bonsues up front.

The George Allen school of NFL management, it is all about now there is no tomorrow. If the Jets fail this year they are going to be in a bad spot; old broke losers.

If the Chiefs are going to rebuild and do it primarily from the draft I would expect it to show up in the cap.

J Diddy
08-25-2008, 02:31 PM
woo hoo

we're leading the NFL

keg in kc
08-25-2008, 02:33 PM
I understand the process that he is talking about, but it just seems to me that there is probably something else that factors in to doing something like that. It seems like something that every team would do with any extra amount of money they had, and yet teams don't do that. Well, teams don't generally have that much cap space to work with. I know that KC, for instance, for as cheap as people complain that ownership is, is almost always pretty tight up against the salary cap. This year is an aberration...

It's usually more of a matter of converting current salary to bonus now in order to free up cap space, rather than using extra cap space to offset future contract numbers.

dirk digler
08-25-2008, 02:34 PM
I understand the process that he is talking about, but it just seems to me that there is probably something else that factors in to doing something like that. It seems like something that every team would do with any extra amount of money they had, and yet teams don't do that. Otherwise, like I said in my previous post, wouldn't every team be right at zero cap space for the year, every single year?

It is a common practice but as you notice from the list alot of teams are almost maxed out so they can't do that.

gblowfish
08-25-2008, 02:37 PM
$31,000,000 divided by $41 available Chiefs tickets is 756,098 tickets. Not realistic for eight home games...
So let's do this and say 20,000 per game x 8 regular season games is 120,000 tickets....

Sell them for $259 ea instead of $41 and Carl makes the money back.
That's $31,000,000.

So c'mon Chiefs Fans...let's shell out $259 per seat in the nosebleed and fill Arrowhead, so Carl can comfortably spend that cap money.

Or buy himself a new, black-leather appointed office with black leather floors, ceilings, walls, furniture, and massage table.

Valiant
08-25-2008, 02:48 PM
This is just BS for the hunts to put that much money in their pockets.

I wouldn't have wanted thrm to go out and buy FA's over the summer this year. Wouldn't have made a difference. But............

They could be using that $36 million this year to pay off Tony G, LJ's and Surtain's contracts early. We could then use that $36 mil that doesn't carry over to next year now.

We free up cap space for 2009 and 2010 to pursue FA's and sign DJ to a new contract.

I would be using it to go after either trading some of our guys and take the hit or signing some extensions to some of our guys if I thought they were going to be great awhile..

The problem is I don't think any of our young guys deserve an extension.. I guess we can sign D. JOhnson, but to me he is not worth a lot..

OnTheWarpath58
08-25-2008, 02:56 PM
I would be using it to go after either trading some of our guys and take the hit or signing some extensions to some of our guys if I thought they were going to be great awhile..

The problem is I don't think any of our young guys deserve an extension.. I guess we can sign D. JOhnson, but to me he is not worth a lot..


And that's the other angle to this.

What makes anyone think that these player would WANT to extend their deals here?

If I'm DJ, I'm counting the days until I become a FA. Someone will completely overpay for him.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 03:32 PM
And that's the other angle to this.

What makes anyone think that these player would WANT to extend their deals here?

If I'm DJ, I'm counting the days until I become a FA. Someone will completely overpay for him.
This is DJ's last year. He's a FA at the end of this year.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 03:35 PM
Is that even possible? By that I mean, wouldn't every single team be almost exactly at zero cap space every year if what you suggest we do was actually possible? I'm sure the Packers have some guys they could do that to, why aren't they doing it?
LJ, Tony G and Surtain are all gauranteed money next year. They tear up a knee they get that money.

If the Chiefs came to them and said we want to give you next years money right now so we can have cap space next year why would they turn it down? Whats the negative for them?

OnTheWarpath58
08-25-2008, 03:39 PM
This is DJ's last year. He's a FA at the end of this year.

And if I'm him, I run like the wind.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 03:53 PM
And if I'm him, I run like the wind.
He just might. He's been poorly used. His skills don't match the scheme etc. Supposely that has changed this year but since they don't show any blitz's in pre-season we won't know until 3-4 games in whether they was really a change.

jjchieffan
08-25-2008, 03:56 PM
Heck, I say cut McIndouche and Nappy Harris. Their accrued signing bonus will eat up some of that cap. Since it is after June 1, does half of the bonus acceleration have to carry over? What about Surtain? Should we let him go now? Let the young guys start. Its all about developing the young players right?

CupidStunt
08-25-2008, 03:56 PM
Jay Feeley, please. Give him a mil and let him kick.

:thumb:

OnTheWarpath58
08-25-2008, 03:58 PM
Heck, I say cut McIndouche and Nappy Harris. Their accrued signing bonus will eat up some of that cap. Since it is after June 1, does half of the bonus acceleration have to carry over? What about Surtain? Should we let him go now? Let the young guys start. Its all about developing the young players right?

All for it.

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 03:59 PM
We could trade LJ. His bonus would become immediately due but it ain't going to be >$36 million.

Yeah we will suck mucho worse but in 2 years we don't even know if he will want to play or blown out a kneee. 30 year old RB's that can still bring it are rare.

We can get a #1. Charles and Smith look servicable. If Brodie sucks we could move up and take the best QB available.

Valiant
08-25-2008, 04:02 PM
LJ, Tony G and Surtain are all gauranteed money next year. They tear up a knee they get that money.

If the Chiefs came to them and said we want to give you next years money right now so we can have cap space next year why would they turn it down? Whats the negative for them?

There is no negative for them.. It is the teams trying to horde money for profit..

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 04:05 PM
There is no negative for them.. It is the teams trying to horde money for profit..
Thats what is pissing me off.:mad:

I've never believed that King Carl was only interested in making money. I believe he also wants to win, It's just that he doesn't know how to win a championship. How to build a champion not just a good team.

To leave that much money under the cap when LJ, Tony G and Surtain could get their money now and free up cap space next year is pure profit taking.

chiefsngop
08-25-2008, 04:49 PM
This is DJ's last year. He's a FA at the end of this year.

This is my concern with Herm's "rebuilding" and "youth movement". If we add 2-3 solid players a year via the draft, but we lose 2-3 players a year to free agency, trades, and retirement, how do we gain ground ?

DON'T GET ME WRONG, I am not at all for the Carl Peterson method either, of filling gaps every year with wore out free agents and watching the team implode when the free agency market slims out or big signings bust.

I'm just not sold that there isn't a happy medium here. I've looked at the New England system over & over and it appears they subscribed to the happy medium a few years back of developing the young and adding / keeping stud veterans.

Boris The Great
08-25-2008, 04:55 PM
To leave that much money under the cap when LJ, Tony G and Surtain could get their money now and free up cap space next year is pure profit taking.

What you are proposing is not possible. Like another post said, if teams could do that, every team in the league would use up their available cap space by paying ahead on contracts for the following season. No team would ever be under the cap if that was allowed.

Furthermore, your logic is just off. You posted earlier that the $31 million doesnt carry over. That is true in the sense that they wont have an extra $31 million to spend on top of their available 2009 cap room. But good cap shape certainly carries over. The Chiefs are in excellent cap shape. They have no need to pay guys money now to free up cap space for next year, because they will continue to be well under next year.

And where are you getting that this is the final year for Derrick Johnson on his contract?

Mecca
08-25-2008, 07:55 PM
Actually alot of teams do that......they'll give a player some extra guaranteed money to fill up their cap space so it comes off the cap room in the next years. The Eagles are a team that has been doing it for several years.

This team has to prepare for the likely hood of taking on a 70+ million dollar contract with around 30 guaranteed next year...

BigRedChief
08-25-2008, 09:25 PM
What you are proposing is not possible. Like another post said, if teams could do that, every team in the league would use up their available cap space by paying ahead on contracts for the following season. No team would ever be under the cap if that was allowed.

Furthermore, your logic is just off. You posted earlier that the $31 million doesnt carry over. That is true in the sense that they wont have an extra $31 million to spend on top of their available 2009 cap room. But good cap shape certainly carries over. The Chiefs are in excellent cap shape. They have no need to pay guys money now to free up cap space for next year, because they will continue to be well under next year.

And where are you getting that this is the final year for Derrick Johnson on his contract?
So because we are not in cap hell the hunts should be allowed to pocket $31 million that could have been used to better the team.

this is one of our teams issues...the fans diminishing goals.:doh!:

RibKing67
08-25-2008, 09:42 PM
So because we are not in cap hell the hunts should be allowed to pocket $31 million that could have been used to better the team.

this is one of our teams issues...the fans diminishing goals.:doh!:

Wait wait wait....How much did the Chiefs have to put in on the remodel of Arrowhead? They are not putting it in their pocket they are just not taking any more out of their pocket to pay for the upgrade to Arrowhead.

I had heard 75 mil and then another 50 mil so that is 125. Looks like we may have 5 yrs of this in order for the Hunts to break even.

BigRock
08-25-2008, 10:06 PM
Actually alot of teams do that......they'll give a player some extra guaranteed money to fill up their cap space so it comes off the cap room in the next years. The Eagles are a team that has been doing it for several years.

Doesn't Philly run a bonus scam with their contracts? ESPN did a thing on this once. They add, say, some $5 million bonus clause to some vet's contract that's based on incentives. Except the incentives are unreachable. That $5 million comes off their cap for the current year, but as long as they have plenty of cap room, it doesn't matter.

And since the incentive isn't reachable, they never pay out the $5 million bonus. And since they never paid it but it was counted against their cap, they get that $5 million back as a credit the following season. So if the league wide cap limit was $100 million, for them it would be $105.

It's not just the Eagles that do that, but they were one of the teams.

BigRock
08-25-2008, 10:13 PM
So because we are not in cap hell the hunts should be allowed to pocket $31 million that could have been used to better the team.

If they want to renegotiate player contracts to put more money towards the 2007 cap, they have until November or sometime. You're getting all worked up about something that could still happen over the next 3 months.

And how are the Hunts pocketing the money? Whether they pay Gonzalez and whoever else extra money in 2008, or they pay them as scheduled in 2009, they're still paying them the exact same amount. And it's not like the team is going to go out next year and spend on FAs like the Raiders or Jets did.

And this has been asked already, but where did you hear this was the last year of DJ's contract? He signed a five-year deal in 2005.

tk13
08-25-2008, 10:15 PM
Doesn't Philly run a bonus scam with their contracts? ESPN did a thing on this once. They add, say, some $5 million bonus clause to some vet's contract that's based on incentives. Except the incentives are unreachable. That $5 million comes off their cap for the current year, but as long as they have plenty of cap room, it doesn't matter.

And since the incentive isn't reachable, they never pay out the $5 million bonus. And since they never paid it but it was counted against their cap, they get that $5 million back as a credit the following season. So if the league wide cap limit was $100 million, for them it would be $105.

It's not just the Eagles that do that, but they were one of the teams.
Actually the Chiefs are usually one of the teams that do that the most. I have no idea if they did that this year, and that's part of this cap number.

But generally speaking, the Chiefs are usually one of the top teams in handing out 'not likely to be earned' bonuses. And that's reason #4996 why it's very difficult to get a read on the cap situation.

People can say they know. But this is one of those areas where they don't know... not because anyone is smart or dumb, most people just don't have real access to the numbers and the contracts involved. It's hard for guys like John Clayton to figure out. Like there was one year people complained about spending under the cap... when in reality we had the 2nd highest max cap number and were spending more than most every other team, but people complained we were cheap because we had so much cap room.

Although this year, I doubt that's it... I would bet we're just not spending very much, that's what happens when you have a team full of guys playing on their rookie contracts.

tk13
08-25-2008, 10:27 PM
Personally, I don't know who I'd give more money too. I sure wouldn't give LJ another cent of guaranteed money. I don't think it's quite that cut and dry.

If you forward that money into a bonus this year, that's still spread out over the life of the contract for cap purposes, is it not... it's just more money in the long run. Unless you convince both sides to take it out of the base salary. And I don't think that's very likely, if it's even possible. And what GM in their right mind would want to give away non-guaranteed money, that's not gonna help your cap hit if you cut a guy.

I don't know. I actually wonder if that would mess things up... for instance if you did that, and threw 20 million at LJ, would that not create a giant mess if somebody was franchised... it would throw the top 5 salaries way off.

BigRock
08-25-2008, 10:30 PM
Actually the Chiefs are usually one of the teams that do that the most. I have no idea if they did that this year, and that's part of this cap number.

But generally speaking, the Chiefs are usually one of the top teams in handing out 'not likely to be earned' bonuses. And that's reason #4996 why it's very difficult to get a read on the cap situation.

They have been getting a lot of unearned bonuses back the last few years. But with Green and Priest and LJ and Roaf and high priced guys like that going down with injury over the last few seasons, I don't really know if they're doing the same trick as the Eagles or if those guys had legit roster bonuses.

boogblaster
08-25-2008, 10:32 PM
Haven't you heard ... We're trading LJ for Brady and lots of cash ...

Mecca
08-25-2008, 10:57 PM
Personally, I don't know who I'd give more money too. I sure wouldn't give LJ another cent of guaranteed money. I don't think it's quite that cut and dry.

If you forward that money into a bonus this year, that's still spread out over the life of the contract for cap purposes, is it not... it's just more money in the long run. Unless you convince both sides to take it out of the base salary. And I don't think that's very likely, if it's even possible. And what GM in their right mind would want to give away non-guaranteed money, that's not gonna help your cap hit if you cut a guy.

I don't know. I actually wonder if that would mess things up... for instance if you did that, and threw 20 million at LJ, would that not create a giant mess if somebody was franchised... it would throw the top 5 salaries way off.

I say that because it would make him realistic to cut in 2 years when he's likely to be completely done.

BigRedChief
08-26-2008, 07:39 AM
And this has been asked already, but where did you hear this was the last year of DJ's contract? He signed a five-year deal in 2005.
Both 610 and 810 have talked about it being his last year. He must have a voidable year?

BigRedChief
08-26-2008, 07:40 AM
If they want to renegotiate player contracts to put more money towards the 2007 cap, they have until November or sometime. You're getting all worked up about something that could still happen over the next 3 months.
You can call BS when it happens. until then I'm calling profit taking.

Rausch
08-26-2008, 07:42 AM
I say that because it would make him realistic to cut in 2 years when he's likely to be completely done.

Behind this line Croyle and Chan will be as well...

BigRedChief
08-26-2008, 08:49 AM
Behind this line Croyle and Chan will be as well...
lots of holes to fill :doh!:

jjchieffan
08-26-2008, 09:56 AM
Actually the Chiefs are usually one of the teams that do that the most. I have no idea if they did that this year, and that's part of this cap number.

But generally speaking, the Chiefs are usually one of the top teams in handing out 'not likely to be earned' bonuses. And that's reason #4996 why it's very difficult to get a read on the cap situation.

People can say they know. But this is one of those areas where they don't know... not because anyone is smart or dumb, most people just don't have real access to the numbers and the contracts involved. It's hard for guys like John Clayton to figure out. Like there was one year people complained about spending under the cap... when in reality we had the 2nd highest max cap number and were spending more than most every other team, but people complained we were cheap because we had so much cap room.

Although this year, I doubt that's it... I would bet we're just not spending very much, that's what happens when you have a team full of guys playing on their rookie contracts.

Yeah, This year, the Chiefs had one of the highest caps. It was something like $128 million instead of the $116 million for the base cap. That money was from carried over unearned bonuses from what I understand. I am sure they can do something similar to carry the money over to next year.

BigRedChief
08-26-2008, 10:29 AM
Yeah, This year, the Chiefs had one of the highest caps. It was something like $128 million instead of the $116 million for the base cap. That money was from carried over unearned bonuses from what I understand. I am sure they can do something similar to carry the money over to next year.
no way. Cap money doesn't carry over to next year. You don't use it you lose it.

blueballs
08-26-2008, 10:30 AM
How is this a bad problem
I think it just shows how little Carl is in charge
and was overruled -forced to change

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2008, 10:35 AM
no way. Cap money doesn't carry over to next year. You don't use it you lose it.

That's not true.

The Buccaneers carried over $13M over from last year.

JJ is exactly right - it comes from what is termed "likely to be earned incentives" as a couple of people have already pointed out.

If the incentive goes unused, the team is allowed to carry over that amount into the following season.

According to an article I read on this, NFL teams collectively carried over $154M from last season.

Chiefnj2
08-26-2008, 10:46 AM
I think everyone is both right and wrong. The cap is the cap. If a likely to be earned bonus is not earned, I believe a team can take a credit for it the next year. LTBE's count against the cap the year they are in place. If they aren't reached I believe a team gets a credit for it the next year - it's in the form of a savings, not an addition to the cap.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2008, 10:51 AM
I think everyone is both right and wrong. The cap is the cap. If a likely to be earned bonus is not earned, I believe a team can take a credit for it the next year. LTBE's count against the cap the year they are in place. If they aren't reached I believe a team gets a credit for it the next year - it's in the form of a savings, not an addition to the cap.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-underthecap031008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The unspent capital figures will only get worse next year as teams find ways to carryover unused cap money from year to year.

A big chunk of that money comes from the fact the Bucs carried over $13.3 million in cap space from last season. The Bucs were able to do that because they gave out what were defined as “likely to be earned incentives” in certain contracts, but those incentives were never earned by the players. For instance, players such as quarterbacks can be given incentives for special teams performance that are defined as likely to be earned. Because quarterbacks, even backups, rarely play on special teams, those incentives go unused, allowing the team to carryover a credit.

Led by the Bucs, Philadelphia ($14 million) and Minnesota ($18.4 million), NFL teams collectively carried over $154 million from the 2007 season. Based on current rate, teams could carryover another $300 million in cap space.

Chiefnj2
08-26-2008, 10:58 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-underthecap031008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Isn't that what I said. They carry over a credit.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2008, 11:02 AM
Isn't that what I said. They carry over a credit.

Yeah, I was backing you up.

But end the end, "credit" is still cap space available.

BigRedChief
08-26-2008, 11:10 AM
Yeah, I was backing you up.

But end the end, "credit" is still cap space available.
okay I just don't see how this is possible. Why wouldn't someone like Daniel Snyder maniuplate the system for their gain. Who deciedes "likely" to be gained?

EX....Snyder wants to make a Super Bowl run next year. He puts a $1 million bonus in the contract if the player reaches the Super Bowl. He does that with 40 players. They don't make the Super Bowl. He gets $40 million above the cap to spend on free agents to make his run next year?

And even if thats true who is saying that the Chiefs are doing this? They have $32 million in incentives for this year alone? Going to have to see some evidence for that one.

Chiefnj2
08-26-2008, 11:12 AM
okay I just don't see how this is possible. Why wouldn't someone like Daniel Snyder maniuplate the system for their gain.

EX....Snyder wants to make a Super Bowl run next year. He puts a $1 million bonus in the contract if the player reaches the Super Bowl. He does that with 40 players. They don't make the Super Bowl. He gets $40 million above the cap to spend on free agents to make his run next year?

And even if thats true who is saying that the Chiefs are doing this? They have $32 million in incentives for this year alone? Going to have to see some evidence for that one.

There are likely to be earned and not likely to be earned bonuses/credits. Reaching the SB would be a not likely to be earned and wouldn't count against the cap this year so you can't carry it over to next year.

BigRedChief
08-26-2008, 11:16 AM
There are likely to be earned and not likely to be earned bonuses/credits. Reaching the SB would be a not likely to be earned and wouldn't count against the cap this year so you can't carry it over to next year.
says who? What if this clasue was in the Cowboys or Pats contracts? They are "Likely" to reach the Super Bowl this year.
But anyway forget the Super Bowl. You could come up with "likely" stats but in reality you won't achieve and thereby give yourself more cap space next year. It's a definte loophole.

But whos saying the Chiefs are using this loophole? We are still back to my original point............

The Chief should be using this cap space and not pocketing the profit. FA's wouldn't have helped, so you have to use it another way.

Chiefnj2
08-26-2008, 11:18 AM
says who? What if this clasue was in the Cowboys or Pats contracts? They are "Likely" to reach the Super Bowl this year.
But anyway forget the Super Bowl. You could come up with "likely" stats but in reality you won't achieve and thereby give yourself more cap space next year. It's a definte loophole.

But whos saying the Chiefs are using this loophole? We are still back to my original point............

The Chief should be using this cap space and not pocketing the profit. FA's wouldn't have helped, so you have to use it another way.

It is based on the previous performance of the players and team.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2008, 11:31 AM
Shy of calling the league office and asking, I'm not sure how you're going to find out if the Chiefs are actually using this loophole.

Granted, this is only a blog entry...

http://gryphononcowboys.blogspot.com/2008/02/adjusted-2008-nfl-salary-cap-space-for.html


There were 23 teams that pushed unused cap room from 2007 into 2008 by using the bogus incentive loophole (the incentives were charged against the 2007 cap and will be credited back in 2008 because they were never earned).

Here are the amounts each team pushed forward, from most to least --

Minnesota $20,780,500
Jacksonville $16.5 million
Tampa Bay $14,572,039 (plus $606,912)
Philadelphia $13,615,833 (plus $90,833)
Buffalo $13 million
Kansas City $11.29 million
Cleveland $11.025 million (plus $3.025 million)
Green Bay $8.965 million
New Orleans $8,266,988 (plus $3,553,088)
Indianapolis $8 million (plus $4 million)
Seattle $7.4 million
Oakland $7,345,532
Carolina $6.67 million (plus $2.67 million)
Tennessee $6 million
New England $5,602,500 (plus $5,602,500)
Miami $4,876,323 (plus $873,677)
New York Jets $4.7 million
Atlanta $4 million
Dallas $3.5 million
St. Louis $3,174,300 (plus $3,174,300)
Baltimore $2.6 million
San Francisco $2,111,678
Washington $1,821,260

The "plus" amounts are additional cap room that could be gained from prorated amounts of last year's bogus incentives currently being charged against the 2008 cap. If those charges disappear, that amount of additional cap room will be gained.

Here are the players involved for each team that used the loophole --

Atlanta -- Dwayne Blakley, $4 million

Baltimore -- Matt Katula, $2.6 million

Buffalo -- Shaud Williams, $3.5 million; Aaron Schobel, $3 million; Leon Joe, $2.5 million; Tim Massaquoi, $2 million; Corey Mace $1 million; Scott Mayle, $1 million

Carolina -- Jason Carter, $4 million; Nai'il Diggs, $2.67 million/year over four years

Cleveland -- Ryan Pontbriand, $8 million; Ken Dorsey $3.025 million/year over four years

Dallas -- Tony Curtis $3.5 million

Green Bay -- Ryan Krause, $4 million; Craig Nall, $3.265 million; Donald Lee, $1.7 million

Indianapolis -- Craphonso Thorpe, $4 million; Tyjuan Hagler, $4 million/year over two years

Jacksonville -- Tutan Reyes, $10 million; Shantee Orr, $6.5 million

Kansas City -- Keyaron Fox, $10 million; Mickey Pimental, $1.29 million

Miami -- Lance Schulters, $3 million, Chester Harris, $1,126,323 (plus $873,677 in 2008); Samkon Gado, $750,000

Minnesota -- Pat Williams, $12.25 million; Steve Hutchinson, $4.75 million; Bobby Wade, $2.4 million; Heath Farwell, $803,000; Ben Leber, $577,500

New England -- Kyle Eckel, $5,602,500/year over two years

New Orleans -- Josh Cooper, $4,713,900; Josh Savage $3,553,088/year over two years

New York Jets -- Abram Elam, $4.7 million

Oakland -- Mark Wilson, $7,345,532

Philadelphia -- Reno Mahe, $4 million; Akeem Jordan, $2.5 million; Shawn Andrews, $2.125 million; Tanard Davis $1.6 million; Darren Howard, $1.5 million; Marcus Paschal, $1 million; Brian Dawkins, $800,000; Jon Dorenbos $90,833/year over six years

San Francisco -- Roderick Green, $1.5 million; Bryan Gilmore, $611,678

Seattle -- Pork Chop Womack, $7.4 million

St. Louis -- Brock Berlin, $3,174,300/year over two years

Tampa Bay -- Chad Lucas, $7 million; Lionel Gates, $6 million; Jerramy Stevens, $678,951; Kenneth Darby $893,088 (plus $606,912 in 2008)

Tennessee -- Ben Hartsock, $6 million

Washington -- Randall Godfrey, $1,821,260

BigRedChief
08-26-2008, 11:35 AM
Kansas City -- Keyaron Fox, $10 million
WTF? That defintely looks like funny money. He never made $10mil in his whole career.


Kansas City -- Keyaron Fox, $10 million; Mickey Pimental, $1.29 million Who?

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2008, 11:38 AM
WTF? That defintely looks like funny money. He never made $10mil in his whole career.

Who?

That's the POINT.

It's a loophole.

Key probably had an incentive in his contract (just an example) that if he played 95% of all special teams plays, he'd be paid $10M.

Since he didn't, that unused incentive is pushed to 2008 as a credit towards the cap.

ChiefsCountry
08-26-2008, 11:38 AM
It looks like a loophole for the team to cover their ass if one of these guys has a year that is not expected.

BigRedChief
08-26-2008, 11:42 AM
That's the POINT.

It's a loophole.

Key probably had an incentive in his contract (just an example) that if he played 95% of all special teams plays, he'd be paid $10M.

Since he didn't, that unused incentive is pushed to 2008 as a credit towards the cap.
Fox and $10 million don't go together. Thats pretty convincing evidence there. :thumb:

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-26-2008, 07:24 PM
Who the heck is Mickey Pimental ROFL

Kansas City -- Keyaron Fox, $10 million; Mickey Pimental, $1.29 million