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View Full Version : KU NCAA to crack down on "unethical", Chalmers-like combo deals


Pitt Gorilla
08-26-2008, 01:28 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/seth_davis/08/26/hoop.thoughts/

During a time of year when college basketball usually doesn't generate much interesting news, Baylor coach Scott Drew caused a few ripples last month when he hired a man named Dwon Clifton to be his director of player development (whatever that is). The reason this hire was noteworthy is that Clifton had been coaching a summer team called D-One that features John Wall, a 6-foot-4 point guard from Raleigh, N.C., whom many people (including myself) consider to be the best high school senior in America.


No doubt Drew can credibly claim Clifton is qualified for the job. He played at Clemson and UNC-Greensboro before competing professionally for one season in Portugal. Drew can also credibly claim he didn't get an explicit guarantee from Clifton that Wall will sign with Baylor.


Yet, I can also credibly claim two things: First, Clifton would not have been hired had he not had been Wall's summer coach. And second, as surely as the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning, John Wall will be a Baylor Bear.


Contrary to what I've seen written elsewhere, the act of hiring a coach for the purpose of signing a player is explicitly against NCAA rules. But the practice has become so commonplace, it's understandable why people would assume it was kosher. Consider, just to take one example, the hero of last season's NCAA championship game, Mario Chalmers. His father, Ronnie, was an assistant who was hired by Kansas coach Bill Self right before Mario's freshman season. Indeed, it's ironic that the hero of Kansas' 1988 national championship team, Danny Manning, also led the Jayhawks to the title with his father, Ed, sitting on the KU bench as a member of the coaching staff.


As I've written before (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/seth_davis/11/21/hoop.thoughts/index.html), this practice has been so prevalent for so long that on some level it's understandable why a coach like Baylor's Scott Drew, who is trying to build a winning program at a school that has never had one, would subject himself to charges of unethical conduct. Because if he didn't hire Clifton in an effort to sign Wall, surely someone else would have. That's why you haven't heard too many coaches complaining about Clifton's hiring, privately or publicly. To paraphrase Hyman Roth in The Godfather: Part II, this is the business they've chosen.


Even so, coaches across America should be forewarned: Some people who oversee college basketball do not like how they've been conducting business. And they're fixing to change it.


The change has begun in the NCAA's enforcement office. This spring, the NCAA created a three-person group that will be devoted to monitoring and enforcing compliance in men's basketball. This is an unprecedented move that reflects a growing concern inside the NCAA that the sport is not being conducted ethically. A prime area of concern for the group is the practice of hiring coaches to get players in blatant violation of NCAA rules.


"We recognize there's a definite issue here, and it's been growing and developing for years," says LuAnn Humphrey, the NCAA's associate director of enforcement and a member of the newly formed group. "It's very difficult at times to prove that these [hires] are being done for the specific intent to secure the recruitment of a prospect, but that doesn't mean the enforcement staff is going to turn a blind eye. We don't want to publicize how we're going to go about it, but I will say to you we're going to be a lot more aggressive in our inquiries."


Humphrey adds that coaches "are getting a little too comfortable" with the fact that intent is hard to prove, but that is the reality her staff is facing. That's why no school has faced major sanctions for violating the rule since New Mexico State was hammered in 1996.


The other way the NCAA can crack down is by passing tougher legislation. That was one of the ideas suggested by the initial working group that was assembled to address the problems facing youth basketball. You may remember the big press conference the group put on at the Final Four last year headlined by NBA commissioner David Stern and NCAA president Myles Brand. The main purpose of that event was to announce a new initiative aimed at reining in abuses in summer basketball, but buried among the set of recommendations was some pretty stark language about how a new rule addressing connect-the-dots hires might read.

Noting that over the years there have "been numerous instances of an institution hiring either a relative or coach of a recruit at a time that was proximate to the prospect's initial enrollment," the group offered the following recommendation in its summary report: "When an institution hires an individual who has either coached or is related to a prospect who ultimately enrolls at that institution, there should be a rebuttable presumption that the hiring violates NCAA legislation. This presumption would be triggered if the individual were hired within two years, either before or after, of the prospect's initial enrollment at the institution. The burden would then be on the institution to prove to the enforcement staff that the hiring did not violate NCAA rules."


In other words, you're guilty until proven innocent.


This kind of idea might sound good when it's discussed by a bunch of hand-wringers in a hotel conference room, but in practice it would be difficult to apply. Besides the difficulty of proving intent, the proposal opens up a Pandora's box of suspected improprieties taking place in other areas of college athletics. For example, when I mentioned this proposal to Georgia Tech coach Paul Hewitt, who is a member of the NABC's board of directors, he countered by mentioning the common practice of athletic directors and university presidents using executive search firms to help them fill coaching vacancies -- after those same search firms had helped that same AD or president get their own jobs. "If we're going to pass this rule in men's college basketball," Hewitt says, "then I want [a rule] passed that when a search firm hires you, you are disqualified from using that search firm in the future. Because that's pretty prevalent right now."


Another problem facing the potential rule change is that it might violate antitrust laws. The NCAA does not have a good recent track record on this front. In 1999, the NCAA had to pay a $54 million settlement as a result of its efforts to create a "restricted earnings" position on men's basketball coaching staffs. Three years ago, the NCAA had to pay $56.5 million to settle an antitrust case brought by the NIT, which had challenged the NCAA's rule requiring teams to accept an invitation to play in the NCAA tournament. Even if a rule along the lines of what the youth basketball issues group proposed were passed by the membership, it's far from clear whether it would hold up in court.


For Hewitt, the more troubling aspect of this dialogue is that it singles out men's college basketball for extra scrutiny and punishment. "Why do we always assume that basketball coaches are the only guilty parties working in the NCAA?" he asks. "I'm not naÔve, I know there are some dirty deals, but I don't see anything wrong with a kid wanting to be around somebody who he's known a long time and makes him feel safe. It's called mentorship."


In the end, there's only so much the NCAA can do to prevent these package deals from happening. "This all boils down to one thing: ethics," says Wisconsin coach Bo Ryan, who is also on the NABC's board of directors. "Obviously there are things done in every business that are unethical, but can you really legislate that? The bottom line is, this is a very competitive business."


And given the way business is conducted in college basketball these days, it's hard to argue Scott Drew hasn't just made one very shrewd move.

gblowfish
08-26-2008, 01:31 PM
Jesus will strike you dead if you EVER accuse Kansas of bending the rules.

kepp
08-26-2008, 01:33 PM
Jesus...Kansas...

Thou shalt not use the Lord's name in vain.

Saulbadguy
08-26-2008, 01:34 PM
Ahem...before anyone screams Michael Beasley, it is worth noting that his former AAU coach is still on our staff. ;)

HolyHandgernade
08-26-2008, 01:39 PM
If you ain't bending, you ain't trying!

-HH

Mr. Laz
08-26-2008, 01:44 PM
Behind the NCAA's new fight against package deals

how nice of YOU to make up your own title so as to include Chalmers.

Reerun_KC
08-26-2008, 01:45 PM
:deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:

KU is always cheating... /MU fan

Skip Towne
08-26-2008, 01:46 PM
Why didn't Self beat Baylor to this coach?

Ari Chi3fs
08-26-2008, 01:48 PM
I think Im going to watch Memphis vs Kansas tonight.

Stewie
08-26-2008, 01:48 PM
This practice has been going on for 50 years. The NCAA is suddenly self-righteous and we now have to pray at the altar of NCAA indignation?

CarolinaChiefz
08-26-2008, 01:50 PM
Why didn't Self beat Baylor to this coach?

Salary cap issues?

Reerun_KC
08-26-2008, 01:51 PM
Well KSCC is still rolling with Dalonte 350K.....

Pitt Gorilla
08-26-2008, 01:54 PM
:deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:

KU is always cheating... /MU fanKU is always cheating.../NCAA

DeezNutz
08-26-2008, 01:54 PM
If any other U refused to hire Ronnie Chalmers, shame on them.

Reerun_KC
08-26-2008, 01:55 PM
KU is always cheating.../NCAA
ROFL

Nice try.....

Ari Chi3fs
08-26-2008, 01:55 PM
Well KSCC is still rolling with Dalonte 350K.....

Kansas State Community College?


Bwha aha ha

Reerun_KC
08-26-2008, 01:55 PM
If any other U refused to hire Ronnie Chalmers, shame on them.
http://blog.daylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/chalmers-shot.jpg

Tiger's Fan
08-26-2008, 02:09 PM
They say it's lonely at the top. Thank god it is.

Midnight_Vulture
08-26-2008, 03:22 PM
Shameless way to get a National Championship by Kansas but it worked out in the end. Good for the Gayhawks.:thumb:

With that being said, hopefully they make these OBVIOUSLY shady package deals illegal.

Kansas will have to go back to those nice "gifts" they give recruits.ROFL

Frazod
08-26-2008, 03:25 PM
The admitted thief and moral degenerate loves the way you guys operate. That's perfect. LMAO

Tiger's Fan
08-26-2008, 03:28 PM
Jealousy is a bitter pill.

duncan_idaho
08-26-2008, 03:39 PM
This clearly is a problem in college sports - and not just kU basketball.

It has extended beyond mere coaching positions as well - mothers getting jobs they aren't qualified for, fathers being offered positions on staff.

It's a shady tactic, and it's about damn time the NCAA did something about it.

I think the NCAA should enact a rule that a family member can't be hired by the university their child attends within two years (on either side) of their child's athletic scholarship.

That goes for everyone - moms, dads, uncles, cousins, etc.

HolyHandgernade
08-26-2008, 03:45 PM
Mizzou must have one of the cleanest programs out there, they haven't won anything.

-HH

duncan_idaho
08-26-2008, 03:48 PM
Mizzou must have one of the cleanest programs out there, they haven't won anything.

-HH

In all fairness, Mizzou has gone to this well, too (though not under Anderson).

Sundvold.
Winfield.
Tony Harvey (was supposed to land Robert Whaley).

I still think it is a step in the right direction.

Braincase
08-26-2008, 03:49 PM
The real secret is to get the billionaire boosters' kids on the team, then the teammates can give the star players everything they ever wanted, including fabulous room and board in the billionaire booster kids mansion.

Not that it'll win you anything, but it's legal under the NCAA rules...

Ultra Peanut
08-26-2008, 03:51 PM
The thing about these situations is that they're not always sinister. When DaJuan Wagner's dad was hired and childhood friend Arthur Barclay was signed by Memphis, people raised a stink, made up their minds, and completely ignored the post-Juanny years, where Milt continued as part of the staff (he has since earned his degree and joined former Tiger assistant Tony Barbee's staff at UTEP) and Barclay overcame injuries to become the heart and soul of the team. For years, people kept bitching about that, even when Milt was still there and Barclay was playing a big role in salvaging the 03-04 season after Banks fell apart and torpedoed it.

Speaking of the Wall situation, the really strange thing about it is just the idea that Clifton could be enough to push Wall to Baylor when, by almost all accounts (including his own), he loves Memphis and Coach Cal. I could understand it if it were Kansas, or North Carolina, or Kentucky, or Louisville, or some other school like that, but Baylor? Really? The brother of your AAU coach is enough to push you to that basketball black hole?

On a related (Xavier Henry) note, this was rather, um, unexpected (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=172&f=2481&t=2859609). A three star walk-on whose costs will be paid for by the New York Yankees--AND he's the brother of a top recruit? Beautiful.

HolyHandgernade
08-26-2008, 03:53 PM
Henry's dad is a former KU player and alum, I don't see anything shady with that.

-HH

Ultra Peanut
08-26-2008, 03:56 PM
Henry's dad is a former KU player and alum, I don't see anything shady with that.

-HHI think shadiness can really only be determined when things are over. If a player's dad is hired and then dumped as soon as the kid leaves, that's pretty shady.

I'm not making any judgement on the Carl Henry thing (if KU even hires him). I was just really surprised by the CJ thing popping up.

HolyHandgernade
08-26-2008, 03:59 PM
I'm just poking and prodding a bit for fun, don't take me too seriously. :D

-HH

HolyHandgernade
08-26-2008, 04:03 PM
Wow, look at this from KU Sports:

One quick basketball note: C.J. Henry, brother of Kansas basketball recruit Xavier Henry, on Tuesday committed to play basketball at Memphis.

C.J. Henry, who orally committed to KU his senior year of high school only to play professional baseball for the New York Yankees organization, told the Daily Oklahoman he will play for the Tigersí basketball team this season.

Keep checking back to KUsports.com, as we'll have audio interviews and a new Spodcasters going up later in the day.

Bearcat
08-26-2008, 04:06 PM
the act of hiring a coach for the purpose of signing a player is explicitly against NCAA rules.

...

Consider, just to take one example, the hero of last season's NCAA championship game, Mario Chalmers. His father, Ronnie, was an assistant who was hired by Kansas coach Bill Self right before Mario's freshman season.

Didn't Chalmers commit in May of 2004, and his father was hired in June of 2005? And iirc, I read something at the time that said they had bought a house in North Carolina before Mario ended up committing to Kansas.

Argue the ethics of either situation -- hiring a father before the kid commits somewhere in order to get the kid, or colleges promising to hire the father if the kid commits... and maybe both are wrong -- but SI should at least get the facts straight. Regardless of whether one or both are wrong, dad saying "I'll go where you go" is completely different than "I just got hired at [college], no pressure to commit there *wink**wink*".

Stewie
08-26-2008, 04:09 PM
Wow, look at this from KU Sports:

Dude it's all about KU basketball. Calipari and Carl Henry are both products of the KU tradition and have known each other for years. Good for Memphis. This is why they hired KU stock.

Stewie
08-26-2008, 04:12 PM
Didn't Chalmers commit in May of 2004, and his father was hired in June of 2005? And iirc, I read something at the time that said they had bought a house in North Carolina before Mario ended up committing to Kansas.

Argue the ethics of either situation -- hiring a father before the kid commits somewhere in order to get the kid, or colleges promising to hire the father of the kid commits... and maybe both are wrong -- but SI should at least get the facts straight. Regardless of whether one or both are wrong, dad saying "I'll go where you go" is completely different than "I just got hired at [college], no pressure to commit there *wink**wink*".


Seth Davis is a Duke alum. Ya know, where all is clean and pure (except for the tobacco money). Don't bring up itty bitty facts that get in his way. Sheesh!

HC_Chief
08-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Seth Davis is a Duke alum. Ya know, where all is clean and pure (except for the tobacco money). Don't bring up itty bitty facts that get in his way. Sheesh!

It's little things like fact checking and accuracy in reporting, more specifically the lack thereof, that drove me away from SI. They've been a rumor-rag for years... to their detriment.

ArrowheadHawk
08-26-2008, 04:51 PM
The thing about these situations is that they're not always sinister. When DaJuan Wagner's dad was hired and childhood friend Arthur Barclay was signed by Memphis, people raised a stink, made up their minds, and completely ignored the post-Juanny years, where Milt continued as part of the staff (he has since earned his degree and joined former Tiger assistant Tony Barbee's staff at UTEP) and Barclay overcame injuries to become the heart and soul of the team. For years, people kept bitching about that, even when Milt was still there and Barclay was playing a big role in salvaging the 03-04 season after Banks fell apart and torpedoed it.

Speaking of the Wall situation, the really strange thing about it is just the idea that Clifton could be enough to push Wall to Baylor when, by almost all accounts (including his own), he loves Memphis and Coach Cal. I could understand it if it were Kansas, or North Carolina, or Kentucky, or Louisville, or some other school like that, but Baylor? Really? The brother of your AAU coach is enough to push you to that basketball black hole?

On a related (Xavier Henry) note, this was rather, um, unexpected (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=172&f=2481&t=2859609). A three star walk-on whose costs will be paid for by the New York Yankees--AND he's the brother of a top recruit? Beautiful.Did Memphis get an invite to a real conference yet?

Bearcat
08-26-2008, 04:56 PM
Seth Davis is a Duke alum. Ya know, where all is clean and pure (except for the tobacco money). Don't bring up itty bitty facts that get in his way. Sheesh!

I didn't realize it was Seth Davis until I clicked on the link to the previous article, but once I saw who wrote it, I wasn't surprised. I don't like him much on CBS... I think he gets 100% of his predictions wrong (picks and sleepers) during March Madness. A coin is right every once in a while, and I'd think he would get a few right if he was purposefully trying to get them wrong.

KevB
08-26-2008, 04:58 PM
Did Memphis get an invite to a real conference yet?

That's fresh and original, please add more.....

kstater
08-26-2008, 05:01 PM
I personally have no problems with hiring an assistant coach to help sway an undecided recruit. A lot of these kids are moving thousands of miles from their homes, and bringing someone along helps ease the transition. :D

Ultra Peanut
08-26-2008, 05:02 PM
Did Memphis get an invite to a real conference yet?Oh yeah, I remember you. You're the genius who said we weren't "for real" because of our weak schedule featuring creampuffs like Oklahoma, UConn, USC, Georgetown, Arizona, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, and Tennessee. You were very unimpressed by our top-5 RPI and high SOS.

God, you were completely proven right after we ripped off the heads of Michigan State, Texas, and UCLA and paraded about with them on pikes. Losing the national championship in overtime after a series of small miracles totally showed we didn't belong with the big boys.

ArrowheadHawk
08-26-2008, 05:07 PM
Oh yeah, I remember you. You're the genius who said we weren't "for real" because of our weak schedule featuring creampuffs like Oklahoma, UConn, USC, Georgetown, Arizona, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, and Tennessee. You were very unimpressed by our top-5 RPI and high SOS.

God, you were completely proven right after we ripped off the heads of Michigan State, Texas, and UCLA and paraded about with them on pikes. Losing the national championship in overtime after a series of small miracles totally showed we didn't belong with the big boys.
Oklahoma.....Please.

Anyway I think you do belong just in a better conference.

And about those miracles. Since when is Memphis missing free throws a miracle.

Ultra Peanut
08-26-2008, 05:25 PM
Anyway I think you do belong just in a better conference.Well, if you have any pull we'd gladly accept an invite to the Big XII.

Since when is Memphis missing free throws a miracle.Five-point sequences that cut the lead down to two possessions after the other team's soul fouls out happen all the time. A guy wriggling out of the foul attempt and getting the ball free for a buzzer-beating three with someone right in the guy's face to tie up the national championship game? Happens everyday.

Bearcat
08-26-2008, 05:31 PM
Five-point sequences after the other team's soul fouls out happen all the time. A guy wriggling out of the foul attempt and getting the ball free for a buzzer-beating three with someone right in the guy's face to tie up the national championship game? Happens everyday.

I've watched Collins' inbound steal and three no fewer than 4000 times, and I'm still amazed. When he turned around, most of his foot would have been out of bounds had he planted his heel before passing. Frame by frame, it's incredible that he was able to turn and pass while still in bounds.



Uh... sorry. :evil:

Mr. Plow
08-26-2008, 05:46 PM
So both the Henry brothers are going to Memphis....man that bites.

Ultra Peanut
08-26-2008, 08:12 PM
So both the Henry brothers are going to Memphis....man that bites.Xavier's far from a done deal. I'm almost certain it will be Memphis or Kansas, but CJ's decision doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I'd be lying if I said it didn't make me feel better about our chances, but it's not the deciding factor.

KevB
08-26-2008, 08:25 PM
I've watched Collins' inbound steal and three no fewer than 4000 times, and I'm still amazed. When he turned around, most of his foot would have been out of bounds had he planted his heel before passing. Frame by frame, it's incredible that he was able to turn and pass while still in bounds.



Uh... sorry. :evil:


My frustration about that steal was that Collins blatantly grabbed Rose's jersey around mid-court as Rose darted toward the end line to receive the inbounds pass. I have no idea if it was visible on TV, as I was 8 rows up at mid-court and saw it as plain as day, and immediately started screaming my head off about a foul. That was the only way Collins beat him to the ball. That said, those plays happen all the time during games, and that one could easily have been missed as it was away from the ball. I don't really blame the refs for it, just another in an unbelievable chain of events.

the Talking Can
08-26-2008, 08:33 PM
My frustration about that steal was that Collins blatantly grabbed Rose's jersey around mid-court as Rose darted toward the end line to receive the inbounds pass. I have no idea if it was visible on TV, as I was 8 rows up at mid-court and saw it as plain as day, and immediately started screaming my head off about a foul. That was the only way Collins beat him to the ball. That said, those plays happen all the time during games, and that one could easily have been missed as it was away from the ball. I don't really blame the refs for it, just another in an unbelievable chain of events.

ROFL

Midnight_Vulture
08-26-2008, 08:58 PM
Jealousy is a bitter pill.

Ummm I dont even root for any team in college basketball but thanks for thinking so.:thumb:

I just laugh at Kansas' shameless ways to win. Its comical to me. I mean, thats all they got in Kansas is Gayhawk basketball....so why not try and win at all costs.ROFL

irishjayhawk
08-26-2008, 10:01 PM
If you don't breathe correctly, the NCAA will find a violation.

HolyHandgernade
08-26-2008, 10:09 PM
I just laugh at Kansas' shameless ways to win. Its comical to me. I mean, thats all they got in Kansas is Gayhawk basketball....so why not try and win at all costs.ROFL

Exactly, the best (non-getting married/birth of a child event) night of my life was as a freshman at KU when we won the national championship in 1988 on my birthday. I wouldn't trade that feeling for anything! Winning it again was great, just not in as close proximity any longer. But, by all means, if you can win it at all costs, you should do so! The Chiefs really ought to look into this concept.

Shamelessly,

-HH

HolyHandgernade
08-26-2008, 10:12 PM
Since you found it so comical, I wanted to help you laugh some more:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TegyduEl4KY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TegyduEl4KY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Just look at all that shamelessness! Oh, the humanity!

-HH

Reerun_KC
08-26-2008, 11:20 PM
Ummm I dont even root for any team in college basketball but thanks for thinking so.:thumb:

I just laugh at Kansas' shameless ways to win. Its comical to me. I mean, thats all they got in Kansas is Gayhawk basketball....so why not try and win at all costs.ROFL

Heres something to console you....

http://www.pedalcarsgalore.com/prodimages/tricycle-pink-SM.jpg

BWillie
08-27-2008, 01:51 AM
Ummm I dont even root for any team in college basketball but thanks for thinking so.:thumb:

I just laugh at Kansas' shameless ways to win. Its comical to me. I mean, thats all they got in Kansas is Gayhawk basketball....so why not try and win at all costs.ROFL

Kansas runs one of the cleanest programs in the country compared to some of the other top programs. The only violation I can think of since the Larry Brown era was when Roy Williams was here and he told the graduating seniors they could accept a few graduation gifts valued at like $300 dollars. You have to be kidding me.

Midnight_Vulture
08-27-2008, 08:20 AM
I am just surprised you guys get the internet in Kansas.ROFL

Rausch
08-27-2008, 08:31 AM
Ummm I dont even root for any team in college basketball but thanks for thinking so.:thumb:

So you showed up just to piss on someone else's parade?

...


Nevermind. I thought I had a disagreement here somewhere...

Lzen
08-27-2008, 08:32 AM
The admitted thief and moral degenerate loves the way you guys operate. That's perfect. LMAO

Heh.

In all fairness, Mizzou has gone to this well, too (though not under Anderson).

Sundvold.
Winfield.
Tony Harvey (was supposed to land Robert Whaley).

The real secret is to get the billionaire boosters' kids on the team, then the teammates can give the star players everything they ever wanted, including fabulous room and board in the billionaire booster kids mansion.

Not that it'll win you anything, but it's legal under the NCAA rules...

Que Card QB
08-27-2008, 09:32 AM
Ummm I dont even root for any team in college basketball but thanks for thinking so.:thumb:

I just laugh at Kansas' shameless ways to win. Its comical to me. I mean, thats all they got in Kansas is Gayhawk basketball....so why not try and win at all costs.ROFLThis year we're gettin' bikes!

Mr. Plow
08-27-2008, 02:41 PM
I am just surprised you guys get the internet in Kansas.ROFL

Ya, we have to peddle pretty hard to generate enough power to run a computer. It's a bitch to peddle and type at the same time.

Skip Towne
08-27-2008, 06:49 PM
Ummm I dont even root for any team in college basketball but thanks for thinking so.:thumb:

I just laugh at Kansas' shameless ways to win. Its comical to me. I mean, thats all they got in Kansas is Gayhawk basketball....so why not try and win at all costs.ROFL

Gayhawks? Did you just make that up? How original. Maybe it is your charm and wit that scores the chicks instead of your rice grinder.