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View Full Version : Elections John McCain "gets it."


Direckshun
08-27-2008, 12:41 PM
Obama's quote about talking to our enemies:

"Strong countries and strong Presidents talk to their adversaries. That's what Kennedy did with Khrushchev. That's what Reagan did with Gorbachev. That's what Nixon did with Mao. I mean, think about it: Iran, Cuba, Venezuela -- these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us. And yet we were willing to talk to the Soviet Union at the time when they were saying, 'We're going to wipe you off the planet.' And ultimately, that direct engagement led to a series of measures that helped prevent nuclear war and over time allowed the kind of opening that brought down the Berlin Wall."
McCain's treatment of that quote:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QhH2q6h7_Ow&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QhH2q6h7_Ow&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

McCain clearly "gets it," folks.

Although by "it," I mean completely distorting your opponent's words to fear-monger.

Dick Bull
08-27-2008, 12:54 PM
I'm John McCain and I threw my hip out

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 01:04 PM
McCain has NEVER said ( that I know of ) you do not talk, he said you talk with sanctions & resolutions in place 1st. You do not ever give the opposition the upper hand when serious threat are in place with smaller countries.

The Soviet Union was the big bad bear, but they wanted no confrontation with us during that time.

IMHO, We , the USA should call their bluff 1st, not taking a soft approach as Obama suggest, without sanctions and straight up.

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 01:05 PM
I'm John McCain and I threw my hip out

Now that is a possibility .....ROFL

Reaper16
08-27-2008, 01:05 PM
I hate politics.

Dick Bull
08-27-2008, 01:23 PM
McCain has NEVER said ( that I know of ) you do not talk, he said you talk with sanctions & resolutions in place 1st. You do not ever give the opposition the upper hand when serious threat are in place with smaller countries.

The Soviet Union was the big bad bear, but they wanted no confrontation with us during that time.

IMHO, We , the USA should call their bluff 1st, not taking a soft approach as Obama suggest, without sanctions and straight up.

he must be a tough SOB negotiator

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 01:30 PM
he must be a tough SOB negotiator


Maybe I didn't word that correctly here, He wants to talk, but only after sanctions are in place first. It give you something to trade when you bargain with them.

Obama wants talks , straight up with nothing to negotiate with .

Dick Bull
08-27-2008, 01:35 PM
Maybe I didn't word that correctly here, He wants to talk, but only after sanctions are in place first. It give you something to trade when you bargain with them.

Obama wants talks , straight up with nothing to negotiate with .

Oh I don't know threat of military force, sanctions, etc


Quit fooling around or we'll bomb you seems to me to be an effective position.

Radar Chief
08-27-2008, 01:40 PM
Oh, good. By the topic title I thought you were getting into Grampsí sex life and thatís a visual image I could just do without.

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 01:46 PM
Oh I don't know threat of military force, sanctions, etc


Quit fooling around or we'll bomb you seems to me to be an effective position.

Use to work just fine .........

Dick Bull
08-27-2008, 02:04 PM
Oh, good. By the topic title I thought you were getting into Grampsí sex life and thatís a visual image I could just do without.

see post 2

Taco John
08-27-2008, 02:23 PM
Obama's quote about talking to our enemies:


McCain's treatment of that quote:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QhH2q6h7_Ow&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QhH2q6h7_Ow&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

McCain clearly "gets it," folks.

Although by "it," I mean completely distorting your opponent's words to fear-monger.



Royce is going to be pissed off when he sees this ad and the lies that it tells.

Radar Chief
08-27-2008, 02:40 PM
see post 2

Heh, :thumb: but thatís tame compared to what I was expecting, afraid of.

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 02:51 PM
Royce is going to be pissed off when he sees this ad and the lies that it tells.


Please explain why I'm to be pissed off ? Iran is a threat, one that Obama shrugged off at first.

What I would like to see is a link to the quote in the thread starter.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2008, 02:55 PM
Please explain why I'm to be pissed off ? Iran is a threat, one that Obama shrugged off at first.

What I would like to see is a link to the quote in the thread starter.

Here you go: http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/769250.html

From the KC Star, no less.

Now, will you acknowledge that this ad takes the quote way out of context and is misleading?

penguinz
08-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Iran is a threat, one that Obama shrugged off at first.
Are you serious?

Fish
08-27-2008, 03:28 PM
Maybe I didn't word that correctly here, He wants to talk, but only after sanctions are in place first. It give you something to trade when you bargain with them.

Obama wants talks , straight up with nothing to negotiate with .

Yeah.... talk is totally overrated when we could just free them like we did Iraq... why talk when we could just liberate them to the ground?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1373/821509852_0ba0008802_o.jpg

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2008, 03:40 PM
Please explain why I'm to be pissed off ? Iran is a threat, one that Obama shrugged off at first.

What I would like to see is a link to the quote in the thread starter.

Here you go: http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/769250.html

From the KC Star, no less.

Now, will you acknowledge that this ad takes the quote way out of context and is misleading?


No response???

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 04:01 PM
Here you go: http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/769250.html

From the KC Star, no less.

Now, will you acknowledge that this ad takes the quote way out of context and is misleading?


OK, I'm still not pissed off as Taco said I would be. Yep, there wasn't a disclaimer like I mentioned in other threads. But if any of you do not think for 1 minute Iran is not a serious threat to anybody, including the USA, think again.

They may be tiny,compared to what the Soviet Union use to be as Obama once said, which IIRC right, was after he mentioned made the first statement that Iran was a tiny country and posed no threat to the US., only to changing his opinion the next day.

But we are talking about a terrorist group of people within Iran . Iraq was a tiny country as well, but they invaded Kuwait and could have possibly done more had we allowed them to. Were they a tiny nation that posed no threat to anybody ?

Why did we go back to Iraq ? Because of fear to other nations, countries in the ME, Isreal, etc.

As misleading as part of the ad was, (I said part ) it's true that Obama is willing to sit down and talk without conditions - in the first year of his presidency with the leaders of Iran. WITHOUT CONDITIONS ......... That's great if you are Iran. How much damage or how farther into the weapons development of mass destruction is Iran going to be by waiting for his talks to start, not knowing if it will work or not within his 1st year. Sitting on your ass waiting for something to happen is a poor approach.

I still like McCains approach on these world leaders, leaders of terrorist nations.

Again, I can give you part of your argument, but not all of it....... The ad had
truth to it , just like your comments about the democratic speeches last night. Speeches, ads, both parties like to distort the truth to thier own personal gain.

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 04:04 PM
Yeah.... talk is totally overrated when we could just free them like we did Iraq... why talk when we could just liberate them to the ground?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1373/821509852_0ba0008802_o.jpg

I never said talking was bad, don't distort what I said. Sanctions, then talk. Let's not give them an inch to bust our ass or somebody else's before action is taken place from a soft president called " The One ".

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2008, 04:11 PM
IIRC right, was after he mentioned made the first statement that Iran was a tiny country and posed no threat to the US., only to changing his opinion the next day.

Your turn to provide a link.

BucEyedPea
08-27-2008, 04:12 PM
I still like McCains approach on these world leaders, leaders of terrorist nations.

I don't because they're not nations involved with 9/11. In fact we did Iran a favor getting AQ out of Afghanistan which borders them. So his approach is wrong target. Social personalities target correct targets. They don't kick a dog when they get a flat tire. And I am not into "making over the world" which would require endless war. Mac's tactics stem from a Trotsky tradition—not an American one. Those dudes believe in perpetual war.

irishjayhawk
08-27-2008, 04:32 PM
Please explain why I'm to be pissed off ? Iran is a threat, one that Obama shrugged off at first.

What I would like to see is a link to the quote in the thread starter.

ROFL

Roy, Fair and Balanced! (TM)

Fish
08-27-2008, 04:38 PM
I never said talking was bad, don't distort what I said. Sanctions, then talk. Let's not give them an inch to bust our ass or somebody else's before action is taken place from a soft president called " The One ".

You're very adamant about sanctions and conditions. Why do you have no faith in discussion?

And what sanctions are you talking about? Do you know? Or are you just regurgitating what you've heard? Please outline these sanctions and conditions if they are really that necessary to your course of action.

irishjayhawk
08-27-2008, 04:51 PM
You're very adamant about sanctions and conditions. Why do you have no faith in discussion?

And what sanctions are you talking about? Do you know? Or are you just regurgitating what you've heard? Please outline these sanctions and conditions if they are really that necessary to your course of action.

Another question: Are you in favor of placing sanctions on ourselves for the same things we hold other countries for? (ie Nukes)

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 06:26 PM
You're very adamant about sanctions and conditions. Why do you have no faith in discussion?

And what sanctions are you talking about? Do you know? Or are you just regurgitating what you've heard? Please outline these sanctions and conditions if they are really that necessary to your course of action.

Currently, I can't. McCain claims that the UN will be involved . It has always been a negotiating tool to use.

Again, I have a hard time giving a country like Iran a free pass to continue doing something while we take no action or have nothing to bargain with .

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 06:35 PM
Another question: Are you in favor of placing sanctions on ourselves for the same things we hold other countries for? (ie Nukes)

As the worlds police department ( UN ) claims, we are the biggest part of the UN when it comes to troops,etc.

No, not at this time, when the rest of the world is without them and nobody has/ will make them, Yes,I'll be all for it.

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 06:41 PM
I don't because they're not nations involved with 9/11. In fact we did Iran a favor getting AQ out of Afghanistan which borders them. So his approach is wrong target. Social personalities target correct targets. They don't kick a dog when they get a flat tire. And I am not into "making over the world" which would require endless war. Mac's tactics stem from a Trotsky traditionónot an American one. Those dudes believe in perpetual war.


Please explain how McCain is a Marxist ? Let me get the popcorn 1st. :rolleyes:

ROYC75
08-27-2008, 06:54 PM
Your turn to provide a link.


My bad, it came from his campaign speech in Oregon in May this year when he made the stupid comment . He was blasted by politicians, party leaders & Americans at the time . He wasn't thinking on this one ......Much like the comments on the Russia / Georgia conflict .

But think, Iran has 636,374 square miles, the U.S. 3,537,441 square miles. Iran is more than 1/6 of the size of the U.S.

FTR, Germany and Japan was a tiny country before WW II, much smaller than Iran .


IMHO, It was just a stupid comment from a guy too young to lead our country as POTUS, Psst......... I'm not alone on this thinking either.

tiptap
08-27-2008, 06:59 PM
My bad, it came from his campaign speech in Oregon in May this year when he made the stupid comment . He was blasted by politicians, party leaders & Americans at the time . He wasn't thinking on this one ......Much like the comments on the Russia / Georgia conflict .

But think, Iran has 636,374 square miles, the U.S. 3,537,441 square miles. Iran is more than 1/6 of the size of the U.S.

FTR, Germany and Japan was a tiny country before WW II, much smaller than Iran .


IMHO, It was just a stupid comment from a guy too young to lead our country as POTUS, Psst......... I'm not alone on this thinking either.

Germany had the largest number of Nobel Prize winners. Iran has to buy its way into war production. It does not make it's tanks. It can make munitions. Iran only borders oil production. No real industrial nations. Get off oil, Iran loses and we don't have to raise an hand. Be smart about this and quit looking to only military solutions.

Fish
08-27-2008, 07:24 PM
Another question: Are you in favor of placing sanctions on ourselves for the same things we hold other countries for? (ie Nukes)

Wouldn't that be fair? If we don't, we look like the assholes that don't obey what they preach. We will need to improve our image abroad in many ways. We cannot be weak, but we most certainly cannot be arrogant like we have any longer.

Fish
08-27-2008, 07:30 PM
Currently, I can't. McCain claims that the UN will be involved . It has always been a negotiating tool to use.

Again, I have a hard time giving a country like Iran a free pass to continue doing something while we take no action or have nothing to bargain with .

You don't know what the sanctions or conditions even consist of, but it's important enough to make a difference in your argument? You're accusing Obama of not providing these, but you don't know what they even entail.

Verbal negotiations are not a free pass. It's how resolution starts. Putting the guns on the table before discussing the game generally backfires on you.

BucEyedPea
08-27-2008, 07:54 PM
Please explain how McCain is a Marxist ? Let me get the popcorn 1st. :rolleyes:

Well, I said he was a Trotskyite. Referring to the part that they believe in permanent war. That's the roots of neo-conservativism...the guys pushing this stuff. ( in both parties btw) You missed a lot of debates over here. Sounds like Mac to me. He said more wars are coming. Oh, and he's a liberal. He could fit in the D party just fine. Do you see him proposing to reduce the welfare state? Nope!

irishjayhawk
08-27-2008, 08:47 PM
As the worlds police department ( UN ) claims, we are the biggest part of the UN when it comes to troops,etc.

No, not at this time, when the rest of the world is without them and nobody has/ will make them, Yes,I'll be all for it.

So then, you (and by extension, America) are a hypocrite?


Wouldn't that be fair? If we don't, we look like the assholes that don't obey what they preach. We will need to improve our image abroad in many ways. We cannot be weak, but we most certainly cannot be arrogant like we have any longer.

That's my point of view.