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Fire Me Boy!
08-31-2008, 07:06 PM
On Friday night I attended and judged my very first South Carolina barbecue. What a disappointment.

First of all, the contest annually marks the end of tourist season here in Myrtle Beach, and is called Smoke on the Beach a part of Beach, Boogie and Barbeque. I was a "celebrity" judge, which basically meant I work for a TV station, so I'm a celebrity. Whatever.

I was judging in the "Anything but pork" category. What, you might ask, is "anything but pork"? I asked myself the same question. And my answer was chicken, brisket, turkey, maybe some salmon... etc.

I was wrong.

There are three categories in the Anything but pork competition, and they include entrees, sauces and desserts.

In the entrees, we had pineapple chicken, which was good flavor, but bad texture. It was overcooked. We had shrimp and grits, which was surprisingly good, considering I don't care much for grits. We had fried shrimp and fish with coleslaw. We had a fairly decent gumbo. And we had and amazing rack of lamb.

Most was fine food... but not a single bit of it qualifies as BBQ. Some of it wasn't even cooked on a grill, let alone smoked.

We had sauces, which we judged by tasting on a piece of bread, or straight from the cup. The three we tasted were hideous concoctions of chili powder, cayenne and extraordinary amounts of vinegar. One sauce had already started to separate by the time it made it to the judge's table.

Desserts: We had an incredible pecan pie. We had two hot fudge cakes. We had a tasty rum cake. And we had a pretty mediocre bread pudding.

This is apparently what you get when you go to a BBQ competition that doesn't allow pork.

:shake:

I'll not be returning to judge unless I get to go to the one where they actually BBQ some meat.

On that note, I did take the first step at becoming a South Carolina Barbecue Association-certified judge. Maybe then I can get to judge something besides fried shrimp and bread pudding.

I think I'm going to plan to become KCBS-certified next year. Have to plan a trip up to KC for the training seminar, but I can do that.

RJ
08-31-2008, 07:36 PM
But did you have fun?

Friendo
08-31-2008, 07:36 PM
first off--"The Carolina's" moniker is only good for Ford or Chevy dealerships. north is North, and south is South--much as I'd assume the Dakota's are. 2nd--SC is known for mostly mustard-based Q. North, and especially Eastern NC is home to vinegar-based Q. To each his own, but I've had both, and SC's sux imo. 3rd-never heard of any such animal as "anything but pork".

It's pointless to try to compare "Carolina's style" pork Q to the Midwestern style you probably grew up on. I suspect that is more universally liked, but since you're so close, you probably should try eastern nc style if you ever get the chance. If there's a "Smithfield's BBQ" chain in MB, you can get a decent approximation.

Skip Towne
08-31-2008, 07:37 PM
Carolinians can't bar-b-q. Can't play basketball either.

Friendo
08-31-2008, 07:38 PM
Carolinians can't bar-b-q. Can't play basketball either.

hope you choke on a rib

Skip Towne
08-31-2008, 07:40 PM
hope you choke on a rib

Couldn't resist. :LOL:

RJ
08-31-2008, 07:46 PM
first off--"The Carolina's" moniker is only good for Ford or Chevy dealerships. north is North, and south is South--much as I'd assume the Dakota's are. 2nd--SC is known for mostly mustard-based Q. North, and especially Eastern NC is home to vinegar-based Q. To each his own, but I've had both, and SC's sux imo. 3rd-never heard of any such animal as "anything but pork".

It's pointless to try to compare "Carolina's style" pork Q to the Midwestern style you probably grew up on. I suspect that is more universally liked, but since you're so close, you probably should try eastern nc style if you ever get the chance. If there's a "Smithfield's BBQ" chain in MB, you can get a decent approximation.



I like BBQ in general and rarely meet Q I don't like. The vinegary North Carolina style is one of my favorites and the taste I shoot for when I do a pork butt.

Another style I really like is Western Kentucky - specifically Paducah area - BBQ pork. The sauce is similar to Eastern North Carolina but a little more red. Just as peppery, though.

My favorite style right now is the two racks of baby backs that should be ready to come off my smoker in about 30 minutes. I still haven't decided whether to sauce them. Hmmmmmmm.....wet or dry? It's a good problem to have.

Friendo
08-31-2008, 07:49 PM
I like BBQ in general and rarely meet Q I don't like. The vinegary North Carolina style is one of my favorites and the taste I shoot for when I do a pork butt.

Another style I really like is Western Kentucky - specifically Paducah area - BBQ pork. The sauce is similar to Eastern North Carolina but a little more red. Just as peppery, though.

My favorite style right now is the two racks of baby backs that should be ready to come off my smoker in about 30 minutes. I still haven't decided whether to sauce them. Hmmmmmmm.....wet or dry? It's a good problem to have.

dry-rub with a little sauce on the side? that's my fav! ftr--when you guys are discussing KC que, do you generally mean baby-backs?

Fire Me Boy!
08-31-2008, 07:55 PM
dry-rub with a little sauce on the side? that's my fav! ftr--when you guys are discussing KC que, do you generally mean baby-backs?

"General" KC BBQ is meat. Mostly ribs, pork or brisket. The typical KC que is as much about the sauce as it is about the meat, but there is no KC meat of choice that I'm aware of.

RJ
08-31-2008, 07:55 PM
dry-rub with a little sauce on the side? that's my fav! ftr--when you guys are discussing KC que, do you generally mean baby-backs?


Oddly enough, I don't suppose I've ever eaten real KC BBQ, at least not since I was a child. And I've never been to a Chiefs game. And I've never owned a Camaro.

What the hell am I doing here?

Fire Me Boy!
08-31-2008, 07:56 PM
first off--"The Carolina's" moniker is only good for Ford or Chevy dealerships. north is North, and south is South--much as I'd assume the Dakota's are. 2nd--SC is known for mostly mustard-based Q. North, and especially Eastern NC is home to vinegar-based Q. To each his own, but I've had both, and SC's sux imo. 3rd-never heard of any such animal as "anything but pork".

It's pointless to try to compare "Carolina's style" pork Q to the Midwestern style you probably grew up on. I suspect that is more universally liked, but since you're so close, you probably should try eastern nc style if you ever get the chance. If there's a "Smithfield's BBQ" chain in MB, you can get a decent approximation.

First off, I'm comparing ANY kind of BBQ to what I had Friday, which was not Q at all, but rather grilling, frying and boiling. None... NONE... of it would qualify as BBQ.

Fire Me Boy!
08-31-2008, 07:56 PM
But did you have fun?

Meh.

Friendo
08-31-2008, 08:04 PM
Oddly enough, I don't suppose I've ever eaten real KC BBQ, at least not since I was a child. And I've never been to a Chiefs game. And I've never owned a Camaro.

What the hell am I doing here?


ROFLROFL

Friendo
08-31-2008, 08:07 PM
First off, I'm comparing ANY kind of BBQ to what I had Friday, which was not Q at all, but rather grilling, frying and boiling. None... NONE... of it would qualify as BBQ.

have you been to Wilmington or Charleston yet? good nightlife, esp in Wilm.

Baconeater
08-31-2008, 08:32 PM
Geez, Demonpenz's BBQ sounds better than that.

luv
08-31-2008, 08:35 PM
Living in th Carolinas, you'd better get used to vinegar based bbq sauce.

Spott
08-31-2008, 08:46 PM
BBQ in the south pretty much sucks compared to KC.

RJ
08-31-2008, 08:47 PM
BBQ in the south pretty much sucks compared to KC.


Personally, I likes 'em all. Smoke, meat, spices, sauce.......How bad can it be?

Guru
08-31-2008, 08:53 PM
On Friday night I attended and judged my very first South Carolina barbecue. What a disappointment.

First of all, the contest annually marks the end of tourist season here in Myrtle Beach, and is called Smoke on the Beach a part of Beach, Boogie and Barbeque. I was a "celebrity" judge, which basically meant I work for a TV station, so I'm a celebrity. Whatever.

I was judging in the "Anything but pork" category. What, you might ask, is "anything but pork"? I asked myself the same question. And my answer was chicken, brisket, turkey, maybe some salmon... etc.

I was wrong.

There are three categories in the Anything but pork competition, and they include entrees, sauces and desserts.

In the entrees, we had pineapple chicken, which was good flavor, but bad texture. It was overcooked. We had shrimp and grits, which was surprisingly good, considering I don't care much for grits. We had fried shrimp and fish with coleslaw. We had a fairly decent gumbo. And we had and amazing rack of lamb.

Most was fine food... but not a single bit of it qualifies as BBQ. Some of it wasn't even cooked on a grill, let alone smoked.

We had sauces, which we judged by tasting on a piece of bread, or straight from the cup. The three we tasted were hideous concoctions of chili powder, cayenne and extraordinary amounts of vinegar. One sauce had already started to separate by the time it made it to the judge's table.

Desserts: We had an incredible pecan pie. We had two hot fudge cakes. We had a tasty rum cake. And we had a pretty mediocre bread pudding.

This is apparently what you get when you go to a BBQ competition that doesn't allow pork.

:shake:

I'll not be returning to judge unless I get to go to the one where they actually BBQ some meat.

On that note, I did take the first step at becoming a South Carolina Barbecue Association-certified judge. Maybe then I can get to judge something besides fried shrimp and bread pudding.

I think I'm going to plan to become KCBS-certified next year. Have to plan a trip up to KC for the training seminar, but I can do that.
You expected it to compete with KC?

luv
08-31-2008, 08:54 PM
You expected it to compete with KC?

I think they all compete. It just depends on your preference: dry, wet, or tangy.

Spott
08-31-2008, 08:55 PM
Personally, I likes 'em all. Smoke, meat, spices, sauce.......How bad can it be?

It's not terrible, but most of the places down here are chain places like Sonny's, Woody's, Bono's, etc. that are crap compared to all of the locally owned placed around KC.

eazyb81
08-31-2008, 09:01 PM
I really hate the yellow mustard-based sauce in Carolina style BBQ. According to friendo that is South Carolina style, but whatever it is I think it's gross.

Reaper16
08-31-2008, 09:02 PM
dry-rub with a little sauce on the side? that's my fav! ftr--when you guys are discussing KC que, do you generally mean baby-backs?
Where in the blue Hell did you develop the idea that KC barbecue = baby back ribs? Baby backs are actually a rarity amongst KC places. I know that Woodyard does them, because Frank just gives me entire slabs whenever I'm there.

Like Fire Me Boy! said, there is no single type or cut of meat as heavily associated with the region as pork shoulder is to the Carolinas or brisket is to Texas. KC literally does it all, even lamb and mutton. (Texas is like this, too).

luv
08-31-2008, 09:05 PM
Where in the blue Hell did you develop the idea that KC barbecue = baby back ribs? Baby backs are actually a rarity amongst KC places. I know that Woodyard does them, because Frank just gives me entire slabs whenever I'm there.

Like Fire Me Boy! said, there is no single type or cut of meat as heavily associated with the region as pork shoulder is to the Carolinas or brisket is to Texas. KC literally does it all, even lamb and mutton. (Texas is like this, too).

Not sure why, but, when I think of baby back, I think of St Louis.

RJ
08-31-2008, 09:08 PM
Where in the blue Hell did you develop the idea that KC barbecue = baby back ribs? Baby backs are actually a rarity amongst KC places. I know that Woodyard does them, because Frank just gives me entire slabs whenever I'm there.

Like Fire Me Boy! said, there is no single type or cut of meat as heavily associated with the region as pork shoulder is to the Carolinas or brisket is to Texas. KC literally does it all, even lamb and mutton. (Texas is like this, too).



When I lived in Texas I seldom saw pork in the BBQ joints. Beef brisket, beef ribs and sausages were the primary fare. NTTAWWT.

RJ
08-31-2008, 09:10 PM
Not sure why, but, when I think of baby back, I think of St Louis.


You are probably thinking of that because of St. Louis ribs, which is a cut of rib.....basically a trimmed spare rib.

Memphis ribs I've eaten were always baby backs.

keg in kc
08-31-2008, 09:11 PM
How'd you enjoy your meal bathed in vinegar?

Welcome to the Carolinas!

Friendo
08-31-2008, 09:12 PM
Where in the blue Hell did you develop the idea that KC barbecue = baby back ribs? Baby backs are actually a rarity amongst KC places. I know that Woodyard does them, because Frank just gives me entire slabs whenever I'm there.

Like Fire Me Boy! said, there is no single type or cut of meat as heavily associated with the region as pork shoulder is to the Carolinas or brisket is to Texas. KC literally does it all, even lamb and mutton. (Texas is like this, too).

it was a question (implying that I don't know), hence the QUESTION mark! since CP is my only frame of reference, I most often hear "ribs" mentioned on here. or so it seems. In Texas I know beef barbecue is big too. like I said, I love em all, except of course the previously mentioned mustard-based. and ftr, nc does shoulders, boston-butts and whole-hog.

Friendo
08-31-2008, 09:13 PM
How'd you enjoy your meal bathed in vinegar?

Welcome to the Carolinas!


well, it's not WV possum but it'll do;)

Phobia
08-31-2008, 09:14 PM
Oddly enough, I don't suppose I've ever eaten real KC BBQ, at least not since I was a child. And I've never been to a Chiefs game. And I've never owned a Camaro.

What the hell am I doing here?

http://kikoololasv.free.fr/laule/anglais/thumbs/BanHim.jpg

keg in kc
08-31-2008, 09:15 PM
well, it's not WV possum but it'll doI knew people growing up who ate road kill, or at least claimed, too. No joke.

Course, you can probably go anywhere in the rural US and find some deliverance stand-ins.

Friendo
08-31-2008, 09:17 PM
I knew people growing up who ate road kill, or at least claimed, too. No joke.

Course, you can probably go anywhere in the rural US and find some deliverance stand-ins.

the secret's in the sauce.

RJ
08-31-2008, 09:28 PM
http://kikoololasv.free.fr/laule/anglais/thumbs/BanHim.jpg



Yeah, i had it coming.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-31-2008, 10:35 PM
first off--"The Carolina's" moniker is only good for Ford or Chevy dealerships. north is North, and south is South--much as I'd assume the Dakota's are. 2nd--SC is known for mostly mustard-based Q. North, and especially Eastern NC is home to vinegar-based Q. To each his own, but I've had both, and SC's sux imo. 3rd-never heard of any such animal as "anything but pork".

It's pointless to try to compare "Carolina's style" pork Q to the Midwestern style you probably grew up on. I suspect that is more universally liked, but since you're so close, you probably should try eastern nc style if you ever get the chance. If there's a "Smithfield's BBQ" chain in MB, you can get a decent approximation.

This. **** I hate that. But seriously, try the vinegar based. It's awesome in it's own, not KC style way.

Fire Me Boy!
08-31-2008, 10:41 PM
Living in th Carolinas, you'd better get used to vinegar based bbq sauce.

Not gonna happen. And when I start competing, I'll not be competing with vinegar-based sauces either. I absolutely will not prepare for judges something I won't eat myself.

If I don't find success, screw 'em. I'm sticking dry rubs and good sauces only, which means NO vinegar-base, NO mustard-base.

Fire Me Boy!
08-31-2008, 10:44 PM
You expected it to compete with KC?

No. But I expected there to be some real BBQ. That's what this entire post is about - the fact that I went to a BBQ competition titled "Anything but pork," and the fare that was served isn't even BBQ. How can you serve fried shrimp at a BBQ competition? How can you serve shrimp and sausage grits at a BBQ competition?

THAT... oh, damn, I forgot the worse part... they allowed the use of all types of cookers, from charcoal, to propane, to... electric!

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7641/gaspen5.jpg

BigOlChiefsfan
08-31-2008, 10:56 PM
FMB, sorry they let you down. But hey...now you know to try shrimp and grits when you see it on the menu. Sounds 'Bubba Gump' the first time you hear it, but it's pretty good. Lamb meets grill, that's usually a winner. Some of the other stuff...well, you can look at this as a learning experience. Someday when you're judging a Que contest with melt in your mouth beef brisket, you'll be gladiator. Or glad you ate here, or whatever. You get my drift.

Friendo, KC Q was originally escaped Texas Q that we fine-tuned into a thing of beauty. Like Texans, we do a LOT of beef brisket, but we make BBQ sauce that the Tejanos can't match. "They can stay all day at the carnival, but they'll never win us back". I've been in Texas BBQ joints that claimed 'Big Red' cream soda was all the BBQ sauce you'd need. They were wrong. Sadly wrong. I hate to cast aspersions, but if it weren't for Texas women, there prolly wouldn't be a lick of sense in that whole big state. But don't get me started to talking about Texas women and licks and so on. That's a whole nother chapter in my novel.
Back to bidness. In KC we also do ribs, both beef and pork. Texas don't do much pigmeat. Now Memphis can make some claims regarding pigmeat, and your carolina folks at least talk a good game, but FMB says all signs point to 'no' and he knows some Que.
Anyhow I should say that we do more pigmeat nowdays, pulled pork and so on...but that wasn't the case here 30-40 years ago. We're making up for lost time.
KC is still prolly the best place to order burnt ends, but you gotta watch your vendor. You want real burnt ends, carved off a beef brisket before they slice it for sammitchs. Chewy smokey nuggets of carcinogenic nirvana. After rooting for the home team all these years, none of us really WANT to live forever, we crave burnt ends. Tastiest slow poison known to man.

RJ
08-31-2008, 10:58 PM
THAT... oh, damn, I forgot the worse part... they allowed the use of all types of cookers, from charcoal, to propane, to... electric!

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7641/gaspen5.jpg


Is nothing sacred?????

HTF can you have a "barbecue" competition with propane and electric??

South Carolina must be a very liberal state.

In fairness, I recall the cole slaw and strippers in South Carolina both being very good.

Friendo
08-31-2008, 11:23 PM
FMB, sorry they let you down. But hey...now you know to try shrimp and grits when you see it on the menu. Sounds 'Bubba Gump' the first time you hear it, but it's pretty good. Lamb meets grill, that's usually a winner. Some of the other stuff...well, you can look at this as a learning experience. Someday when you're judging a Que contest with melt in your mouth beef brisket, you'll be gladiator. Or glad you ate here, or whatever. You get my drift.

Friendo, KC Q was originally escaped Texas Q that we fine-tuned into a thing of beauty. Like Texans, we do a LOT of beef brisket, but we make BBQ sauce that the Tejanos can't match. "They can stay all day at the carnival, but they'll never win us back". I've been in Texas BBQ joints that claimed 'Big Red' cream soda was all the BBQ sauce you'd need. They were wrong. Sadly wrong. I hate to cast aspersions, but if it weren't for Texas women, there prolly wouldn't be a lick of sense in that whole big state. But don't get me started to talking about Texas women and licks and so on. That's a whole nother chapter in my novel.
Back to bidness. In KC we also do ribs, both beef and pork. Texas don't do much pigmeat. Now Memphis can make some claims regarding pigmeat, and your carolina folks at least talk a good game, but FMB says all signs point to 'no' and he knows some Que.
Anyhow I should say that we do more pigmeat nowdays, pulled pork and so on...but that wasn't the case here 30-40 years ago. We're making up for lost time.
KC is still prolly the best place to order burnt ends, but you gotta watch your vendor. You want real burnt ends, carved off a beef brisket before they slice it for sammitchs. Chewy smokey nuggets of carcinogenic nirvana. After rooting for the home team all these years, none of us really WANT to live forever, we crave burnt ends. Tastiest slow poison known to man.

I yield to the experts--captivating as usual BOCF!

Reaper16
09-01-2008, 12:06 AM
FMB, sorry they let you down. But hey...now you know to try shrimp and grits when you see it on the menu. Sounds 'Bubba Gump' the first time you hear it, but it's pretty good. Lamb meets grill, that's usually a winner. Some of the other stuff...well, you can look at this as a learning experience. Someday when you're judging a Que contest with melt in your mouth beef brisket, you'll be gladiator. Or glad you ate here, or whatever. You get my drift.

Friendo, KC Q was originally escaped Texas Q that we fine-tuned into a thing of beauty. Like Texans, we do a LOT of beef brisket, but we make BBQ sauce that the Tejanos can't match. "They can stay all day at the carnival, but they'll never win us back". I've been in Texas BBQ joints that claimed 'Big Red' cream soda was all the BBQ sauce you'd need. They were wrong. Sadly wrong. I hate to cast aspersions, but if it weren't for Texas women, there prolly wouldn't be a lick of sense in that whole big state. But don't get me started to talking about Texas women and licks and so on. That's a whole nother chapter in my novel.
Back to bidness. In KC we also do ribs, both beef and pork. Texas don't do much pigmeat. Now Memphis can make some claims regarding pigmeat, and your carolina folks at least talk a good game, but FMB says all signs point to 'no' and he knows some Que.
Anyhow I should say that we do more pigmeat nowdays, pulled pork and so on...but that wasn't the case here 30-40 years ago. We're making up for lost time.
KC is still prolly the best place to order burnt ends, but you gotta watch your vendor. You want real burnt ends, carved off a beef brisket before they slice it for sammitchs. Chewy smokey nuggets of carcinogenic nirvana. After rooting for the home team all these years, none of us really WANT to live forever, we crave burnt ends. Tastiest slow poison known to man.
Nice anaylsis, except that I'd hesitate calling KC BBQ as simply "escaped Texas." From what I've researched, the Eastern influence was significant. Henry Perry, regarded as the father of KC BBQ, the man who is said to have opened KC's first commerical BBQ stand & the man who taught Charlie Bryant (brother of Arthur) and Arthur Pinkard (was the 1st meat man for the Gates dynasty), came to KC via Tennessee.

Obviously, as you claim, the Texas cattle being sent to KC's stockyards were a significant factor in KC's BBQ development as well. That's the beautiful thing about KC: Eastern methods met southern methods at a center point that just so happened to be overflowing with wood from the Ozarks. Anyone who claims that KC isn't the BBQ capital of the world hasn't paid a lick of attention to the social geography of the form.

blueballs
09-01-2008, 12:52 AM
I think they all compete. It just depends on your preference: dry, wet, or tangy.

what

ChiefsCountry
09-01-2008, 01:42 AM
If KC could steal Memphis dry rub for ribs then KC would be 100% perfect in the BBQ world. Thats about the only BBQ thing that competes with KC, the rest of the country isnt close IMO.

Mosbonian
09-01-2008, 02:35 AM
Is nothing sacred?????

HTF can you have a "barbecue" competition with propane and electric??.

Those are generally transplanted Yankees that don't know any better


South Carolina must be a very liberal state.

In fairness, I recall the cole slaw and strippers in South Carolina both being very good.

Liberal only when it comes to interpretation of good BBQ...that mustard crap that they sell (Maurice's) is akin to mice turds.

And in the time I lived there I don't recall any cole slaw that tasted good.

As for the strippers....you can't judge what you haven't sampled or witnessed.

mmaddog
*******

Ultra Peanut
09-01-2008, 08:14 AM
Carolina and Texas can step right the **** off. Let the grown-ups do their grown-up thangs.

Oxford
09-01-2008, 08:42 AM
Vinegar based "Q"..... not for me.

Smoked Pork Loin in a charcoal water smoker using rootbeer and applewood (cherry is good too). Heat the covered loin in a 200 degree oven to seal the meat (dry rub or wet can be done here) and to raise the temp of the meat, then smoke away.

eazyb81
09-01-2008, 09:38 AM
If KC could steal Memphis dry rub for ribs then KC would be 100% perfect in the BBQ world. Thats about the only BBQ thing that competes with KC, the rest of the country isnt close IMO.

True, I'm a big fan of Memphis dry rub ribs. Probably the best ribs I've ever had.