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HonestChieffan
09-01-2008, 06:40 AM
For all of the liberal goings on on equality and rights, freedom of choice and independent thinking as well as supposed desire to "change" things, it is rather interesting to watch as this VP issue has set the moonbat fringe on fire. Change is only good if its change that fits the Obama mold.

She is attacked for deciding to have a baby...freedom of choice? Is not that part of the liberal mantra? She is accused of every goofy made up foolishness imaginable, and even full frontal attacks on her kids are being foisted upon the web.

The left says they are for equal rights for women...but it seems only if that womanis one who subscribes to leftist liberal beliefs. If she happens to be female and conservative then they drop all the nice open desire for equality and go for daggers.

What is clear is thAT the Palin choice has the Obama campaign in a bind. And with no strategy in place to deal with this pick, the campaign has done nothing to help the fringe by issuing talking points and as a result the fringe, fed by the Kos and other nutjob sources is spinning wildly out of control.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/the_coming_trials_of_sarah_pal.html
September 01, 2008
The Coming Trials of Sarah Palin
By J. Robert Smith


Democrats and the left generally can no more accept a Sarah Palin vice presidency than they could Clarence Thomas as a Supreme Court justice. They can no more accept a conservative woman a heartbeat away from the presidency than they can a conservative African-American interpreting the nation's laws. Expect the long knives to be out, and stay out.


Since the Clarence Thomas nomination fight in 1991, conservatives and fair-minded Americans have learned a bitter lesson: for liberals, it isn't about promoting the advancement of all African-Americans, but only those in step with their ideology and aims. The same can be said of women. Liberals believe they own the franchise, and it doesn't allow for baby-making, gun-friendly, God-fearing women, who, not incidentally, fight for lower taxes, smaller government and a strong national defense. They certainly can't be Republicans.


Aside from her xx chromosomes, Governor Palin flunks the liberal litmus test. She presents a powerful and alluring role model for women, especially younger women, who are regularly bombarded with not just conflicting messages about their roles in modern society -- careerist versus mother -- but are regularly lectured by the left, politically and culturally, that if choices are to be made, then career, not family, is preeminent.


Sarah Palin, an obviously remarkable woman, demonstrates that family and career mustn't be mutually exclusive. Yet it's a safe bet that if need be, this wife or twenty years and mother of five would put family first.


Moreover, Palin represents a threat to the left's narrative that, due primarily to the wearing out of conservatism and generational change, voters are moving inexorably their way. Conservatives have argued for awhile that they have no shortage of ideas, but a shortage of candidates and politicians who possess the desire and will to articulate and advance those ideas.


The forty-four year old Palin is in the vanguard of the new generation of conservative politicians. Louisiana's Bobby Jindal isn't far behind. The Palin nomination puts the lie to the argument that conservatism is headed for the dustbin. The Governor's nomination will serve as a clarion call to younger women and men who find her dynamic, upbeat personality, rootedness and strong advocacy of conservative ideas appealing.


Part of Palin's attraction is that she's a solid conservative reformer, who's unflinchingly tackled government corruption -- corruption largely on the part of oil interests and the old bulls in her own party. Ask Frank Murkowski, Alaska's former governor, who lost to challenger Palin in 2006. Or embattled Congressman Don Young, who's heading for a recount against Alaska Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell, a Palin ally who the Governor is publicly backing.


She's also told indicted Alaska powerhouse Senator Ted Stevens to take his Bridge to Nowhere back to Washington. Her reformist efforts have won her high approval ratings from voters.


Enter the Long Knives


But the trials of Job lie ahead for Governor Palin. Expect Democrats, the left and their allies in the establishment media to go well beyond the initial attacks on the Governor's inexperience and whatever they can pick out of her record. In the coming weeks, the left's whole political and media machine will seek not only to trip up the Governor to prove their contentions that she's dangerously inexperienced, but will attack her character. They'll especially go after her motherhood, her womanhood and her honesty.


They'll argue that Palin's demanding political career undermines her strong pro-family stances. It's tough enough to be governor and a mother, they'll say, much less vice president and a mother. Certainly, Palin will need to construct a powerful counter to that argument; no doubt, she already has.


Of course, the question is never asked of a man. Case in point, Barack Obama, who has two young daughters of his own. Don't young daughters need a father as much as they need their mother? If the demands of the vice presidency are great, aren't the presidency's demands greater?


This may come as a surprise to politics-obsessed, government-centered liberals, but the perception that the presidency and vice presidency are all-consuming is overblown. That perception owes as much to the drama and stagecraft of those offices as to the facts.


President Reagan didn't live his presidency. Why should he have? George W. Bush isn't living his. Why should he? President Reagan had a life outside the office. President Bush does too. Indeed, there are times when the demands of both offices are great, when the holders are required to go into overdrive and burn the midnight oil. But not typically, and Vice President Palin could well serve as a conspicuous example of an executive who makes an important job and family life work.


And doesn't an attack on Palin's motherhood conflicting with her work life contradict longstanding feminist claims about women pursuing both? The answer is yes, but what does that matter? You expect logic and fairness? The left plays mercilessly for advantage. Contradictions are nuisances. The messaging will aim to bury the contradictions under a blizzard of criticism and negative news stories.


Palin's womanhood will also be questioned, because it is the left which is licensed to define womanhood, just as the left is permitted to define blackness. And make no mistake, feminism is a subsidiary of the left.


By the left's definition, a pro-life woman cannot be a woman. A woman who seeks a family-centered society, not a government-centered society, cannot be a woman. A woman who celebrates traditional American values, and not the secular values of Europeanized liberalism, cannot be a woman.


Sarah Palin is a threat to the left's feminist agenda. She is an eloquent and persuasive testament to the fact that the modern woman can embrace traditional values while seeking her place in the professional world. She can produce better than 2.2 children, love them, engage them and still make a difference in her community, state and nation.


And the left will attack Palin the Reformer. It will seek to undermine her honesty. The left can't help but concede that Palin has fought corruption in Alaska, but they'll assert that her firing of the state's public safety commissioner was a misuse of office; that when it comes to her or her family, she's all too ready to abuse her powers.


Here, again, we must expect that Palin has anticipated the argument. That, as they might say in Alaska, she's loaded for bear. From available news sources, it appears that the Governor was well in her purview to replace the commissioner.


Do note that when it comes to the subject of honesty, nary a word has been expended by the establishment media re-introducing Americans to Joe Biden's law school plagiarism and his lifting of lines from a speech by British Labour Party Chief Neil Kinnock, the latter forcing Biden to exit the 1988 presidential contest. And don't hold your breath.


Countering the Long Knives


With her confidence and poise, Governor Palin will be her own best advocate. But with the onslaught of criticism headed her way, with the game of "gotcha" that the Democrats and the media will play with cunning and relentlessly, she can't be expected to fight the good fight alone. And it isn't enough for the GOP and the McCain campaign to cover her back.


Conservatives from all quarters will need to answer the bell. To defeat attempts by the left and their handmaidens in the media to destroy the Governor's character, the conservative response will need to be swift, sure and unflagging. Conservatives will need to be smart and creative in the ways of getting their arguments and messages to average voters.


The battle of the narratives will begin, with the legacy media and the Democrats on one side and the new conservative media, especially talks radio and the internet, that engine of creativity, research, analysis and energy, on the other.


Sarah Palin's candidacy represents not only a new and important chapter for the conservative movement and the Republican Party, but for the nation as well. And how will you know this? By the volume and ferocity of attacks to come against Governor Palin leading up to the November elections.

StcChief
09-01-2008, 06:44 AM
somebody not a career politican. Good for her.

Guru
09-01-2008, 06:46 AM
:clap:

Ultra Peanut
09-01-2008, 06:53 AM
this is the dumbest goddamn shit i've read today

Guru
09-01-2008, 06:54 AM
this is the dumbest goddamn shit i've read today
You haven't been reading this board lately then.

Ultra Peanut
09-01-2008, 06:56 AM
Since the Clarence Thomas nomination fight in 1991, conservatives and fair-minded Americans have learned a bitter lesson: for liberals, it isn't about promoting the advancement of all African-Americans, but only those in step with their ideology and aims. The same can be said of women.WE GOT US A TOKEN

WHY DO THEY HATE THAT THIS TOKEN SETS BACK THE PROGRESS OF THEIR MINORITY?

****ING LIBERALS

Friendo
09-01-2008, 07:00 AM
my wife and her friends are hardly "leftists". time to expose the Right for the Radical kooks they are.


and as a nod to kotter, the Thomas hearings were BS by the Dems.

Direckshun
09-01-2008, 08:23 AM
my wife and her friends are hardly "leftists". time to expose the Right for the Radical kooks they are.

and as a nod to kotter, the Thomas hearings were BS by the Dems.
Absolutely!

What, like you guys never performed the Furry Pop Top? I know I have.

Friendo
09-01-2008, 08:45 AM
Absolutely!

What, like you guys never performed the Furry Pop Top? I know I have.

sure--that used to be my favorite pick-up line--worked every time. :rolleyes:

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 08:21 AM
Palen Threatens Liberal Ideology is why all the Lunaticy has taken place the last 2-3 days. Just look at the thread Starters and why the liberals are printing and expanding on there stories. Liberal Lunacy is putting on a FULL Court Press against
Governor Palen. She represents everything they dislike about traditional family values.

The last 2-3 days should be made into a movie some day.

penchief
09-02-2008, 08:27 AM
Palen Threatens Liberal Ideology is why all the Lunaticy has taken place the last 2-3 days. Just look at the thread Starters and why the liberals are printing and expanding on there stories. Liberal Lunacy is putting on a FULL Court Press against
Governor Palen. She represents everything they dislike about traditional family values.

The last 2-3 days should be made into a movie some day.

The ideals of liberalsim (liberty and justice for all) have been under assault for thirty years. The Reagan neocons started undermining responsive government and it has reached its apex under the right wing corporate fascists currently occupying the White House.

A neophyte like Palin can hardly do any more damage to this country or to the liberal ideals it was founded on than Bush & Cheney have already done. It's just more of the same and that is what people are sick of.

Bootlegged
09-02-2008, 08:28 AM
Moonbats to Level 10 - Alert
Moonbats to Level 10 - All attack mode
Warning
Warning
Warning

tiptap
09-02-2008, 08:29 AM
Palin wasn't subjected to this intense of scrutiny when she was just the Governor of Alaska. 750,000 Alaskans were looking to see if Palin would retain her popularity with that voting public for that office. Her experience was dealing with that group. She is now on a much bigger stage with considerably larger diverse views. It is what I expect. I look at all the details brought up about the other candidates and it is pretty par for the course. These are the only offices that the entire nation votes for so it is not unexpected that everyone that runs for this office is pretty naked and exposed in their lives.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 08:32 AM
The ideals of liberalsim (liberty and justice for all) have been under assault for thirty years. The Reagan neocons started undermining responsive government and it has reached its apex under the right wing corporate fascists currently occupying the White House.

A neophyte like Palin can hardly do any more damage to this country or to the liberal ideals it was founded on than Bush & Cheney have already done. It's just more of the same and that is what people are sick of.


1Then it came to pass in the Land of Entitlement that the Word became Change and the Change became Hope and the Hope became Change You Can Believe In. 2And The Obamessisah went about all fifty-seven states, teaching at their Caucuses and Primaries, healing malaise among the poor in spirit, and preaching the gospel of Progress. 3Then His fame went throughout all the land; and they came to Him all people who were afflicted with Bush Derangement; and those who were hopenitized; moonbats and troofers; and He wooed them. 4Great multitudes followed Him - from Chicago to Jersey, and beyond the Hills of Beverly.

ChiTown
09-02-2008, 08:34 AM
Moonbats to Level 10 - Alert
Moonbats to Level 10 - All attack mode
Warning
Warning
Warning

ROFL.

I've grown to love this place. I enjoy watching the extremists on both sides writhe with every new twist in the election process. The intrawebnets has created a new type of "polititard" that is very entertaining to watch.:evil:

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 08:35 AM
WE GOT US A TOKEN

WHY DO THEY HATE THAT THIS TOKEN SETS BACK THE PROGRESS OF THEIR MINORITY?

****ING LIBERALS

Have you ever even met Clarence Thomas? I have on several occasions. He deserves his place on the court and is no "token". It's always interesting to see how people think that a black man in a high position is a token. Effing clowns.

BigChiefFan
09-02-2008, 08:36 AM
She's as qualified as a box of rocks-great job, republicans!!!

BucEyedPea
09-02-2008, 08:36 AM
Have you ever even met Clarence Thomas? I have on several occasions. He deserves his place on the court and is no "token". It's always interesting to see how people think that a black man in a high position is a token. Effing clowns.

It's because he believes in Natural Law. That drives the left beserk!

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 08:37 AM
The ideals of liberalsim (liberty and justice for all) .


Stop right there. That's not even close to being true. Liberals don't make laws for everybody. They make laws for individual groups of people. Which in turn excludes other people.

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 08:39 AM
It's because he believes in Natural Law. That drives the left beserk!


there has to be balance.

tiptap
09-02-2008, 08:41 AM
You do know that Clarence Thomas has anchored his judicial writings on the judicial ideas of the 1800's. I think he is smart. He just lives without the insight of the Age of Reason and of Science as a central limit as to what is possible. It is this fact that I don't like Clarence Thomas. His ideas do not incorporate those findings. It is instead, built upon a religious legal interpretation as his foundation FROM EUROPE.

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 08:44 AM
The ideals of liberalsim (liberty and justice for all) have been under assault for thirty years. The Reagan neocons started undermining responsive government and it has reached its apex under the right wing corporate fascists currently occupying the White House.

A neophyte like Palin can hardly do any more damage to this country or to the liberal ideals it was founded on than Bush & Cheney have already done. It's just more of the same and that is what people are sick of.

A neophyte is the perfect discription for Barack. He started running for president after spending 143 days in the US Senate. How many times did he vote PRESENT ? 160 times....Now thats leadership we can count on........

If you think Liberals want liberty and justice for all, you've got your head in your cats sandbox again. Governor Palen reperesents values that she speaks about and she walks her talk. There's nothing PHONEY about her at all. Whats Phoney is Barack wanting change and he picks Biden as his running mate, a lifetime Washington political HACK. Now thats CHANGE
we can beleave in.

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 08:46 AM
You do know that Clarence Thomas has anchored his judicial writings on the judicial ideas of the 1800's. I think he is smart. He just lives without the insight of the Age of Reason and of Science as a central limit as to what is possible. It is this fact that I don't like Clarence Thomas. His ideas do not incorporate those findings. It is instead, built upon a religious legal interpretation as his foundation FROM EUROPE.


Nor should he consider science (what ever the heck you meant). Scientfic Research is full of confounding variables and at best you can only draw a correlation. His job is to interpret the US Constitution as written. No more and no less. If laws have loop holes and things unconsidered then it's Congress' job to re-write the laws. It's not the counts job to make law.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 08:49 AM
Whats Phoney is Barack wanting change and he picks Biden as his running mate, a lifetime Washington political HACK.


Biden, from the state of Deleware which helps corporations avoid paying taxes.

penchief
09-02-2008, 08:52 AM
Stop right there. That's not even close to being true. Liberals don't make laws for everybody. They make laws for individual groups of people. Which in turn excludes other people.

People who squeal about others gaining equal opportunity are usually only squealing about the loss of their own advantages.

The ideals of liberty and justice for all were liberal ideals when our founding fathers advocated for them and they still are today.

Those who cling to the power structure of privilege and resist the advance of equal opportunity and equal access are reactionaries and elitists.

What we are currently experiencing in this country is right wing reactionaries rolling back the progresses of democratic governance in order to empower the corporate elite at the expense of our freedoms and our individual prosperity.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 08:56 AM
People who squeal about others gaining equal opportunity are usually only squealing about the loss of their own advantages.

The ideals of liberty and justice for all were liberal ideals when our founding fathers advocated for them and they still are today.

Those who cling to the power structure of privilege and resist the advance of equal opportunity and equal access are reactionaries and elitists.

What we are currently experiencing in this country is right wing reactionaries rolling back the progresses of democratic governance in order to empower the corporate elite at the expense of our freedoms and our individual prosperity.

ROFL

tiptap
09-02-2008, 08:58 AM
You mean you can't take less,' said the Hatter: `it's very easy to take more than nothing

Sully
09-02-2008, 09:00 AM
Holy crap that article is bad.

NewChief
09-02-2008, 09:01 AM
Holy crap that article is bad.

More examples of the quality of "thought" that occurs at American Thinker.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 09:01 AM
How come Deleware makes it easy for corporations avoid paying taxes? Doesn't Joe Biden believe they should pay their fair share?

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 09:09 AM
People who squeal about others gaining equal opportunity are usually only squealing about the loss of their own advantages.

The ideals of liberty and justice for all were liberal ideals when our founding fathers advocated for them and they still are today.

Those who cling to the power structure of privilege and resist the advance of equal opportunity and equal access are reactionaries and elitists.

What we are currently experiencing in this country is right wing reactionaries rolling back the progresses of democratic governance in order to empower the corporate elite at the expense of our freedoms and our individual prosperity.

Not even close to being true. What holds people back in this country is one person and one person only: Themselves.

Back to the topic: When you make laws that only apply to certain groups of people you are part of the problem and this act is one of the liberal building blocks anymore. Affirmative Action is racist and sexist and doesn't pass constitutional mustard. Yet it's allowed because of liberal ideals. Obama, champion of the liberals in this election, breaks down Americans into 17 different hyphenated groups on his own website. This is a problem. We can't all be one in this country and there can be NO justice for all, change, or hope as long as we keep labeling ourselves to seperate each other from one another.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 09:10 AM
Not even close to being true. What holds people back in this country is one person and one person only: Themselves.

Back to the topic: When you make laws that only apply to certain groups of people you are part of the problem and this act is one of the liberal building blocks anymore. Affirmative Action is racist and sexist and doesn't pass constitutional mustard. Yet it's allowed because of liberal ideals. Obama, champion of the liberals in this election, breaks down Americans into 17 different hyphenated groups on his own website. This is a problem. We can't all be one in this country and there can be NO justice for all, change, or hope as long as we keep labeling ourselves to seperate each other from one another.


:clap:

ROYC75
09-02-2008, 09:17 AM
She's as qualified as a box of rocks-great job, republicans!!!

Stealing a line from IrishJayhawk, , define qualified........

ROYC75
09-02-2008, 09:18 AM
A neophyte is the perfect discription for Barack. He started running for president after spending 143 days in the US Senate. How many times did he vote PRESENT ? 160 times....Now thats leadership we can count on........

If you think Liberals want liberty and justice for all, you've got your head in your cats sandbox again. Governor Palen reperesents values that she speaks about and she walks her talk. There's nothing PHONEY about her at all. Whats Phoney is Barack wanting change and he picks Biden as his running mate, a lifetime Washington political HACK. Now thats CHANGE
we can beleave in.


:clap: Word .......

ROYC75
09-02-2008, 09:20 AM
Holy crap that article is bad.

To the Obama camp ...... it speaks the truth.

Sully
09-02-2008, 09:21 AM
Did I just read a post about how it's bad to separate people into groups... while at the same time the poster did everything he could to demonize 50% of the country?

Sully
09-02-2008, 09:22 AM
To the Obama camp ...... it speaks the truth.

The truth, huh?
Did it speak the truth about Palin's "Bridge to Nowhere" stance?

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 09:25 AM
She was never a Community Activist, Comrades. And until she does become a Community Activist I am afraid she has ZERO foreign policy experience.... oh, and zero plagiarism experience as well.

Can America endure a woman with ZERO plagiarism experience? No we can't.

Can America elect a woman who was never a Community Activist in a major urban ghetto? No we can't.

Does she have a temple where worshippers come from miles to adore her?

NO SHE DOESN'T.

Obama/Biden 08

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 09:30 AM
:clap: Word .......

The dems need to take her out at the knee's BEFORE she gets any type of Political momentum. She looks to good to be true and the dems know it.
The dems are so afraid of Governor Palen that they crossed the line and attacked her family :shake:

Sully
09-02-2008, 09:32 AM
Until she, at the very least, understands what is in the constitution, and where the pledge of allegiance came from, I think Dems have a bit of time before getting skerd.

ROYC75
09-02-2008, 09:44 AM
The truth, huh?
Did it speak the truth about Palin's "Bridge to Nowhere" stance?

Just goes to show that all politicians back track ....... she is no different than Obama .

Politics as usual ........

Sully
09-02-2008, 09:46 AM
Just goes to show that all politicians back track ....... she is no different than Obama .

Politics as usual ........
Let's not change teh subject... mkay?

So, then, you admit the article isn't truthful?

ROYC75
09-02-2008, 09:47 AM
So, then, you admit the article, isn't truthful?

Most of it was true, but FTR, I can find dishonesty in any article during election years......

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 09:48 AM
Did I just read a post about how it's bad to separate people into groups... while at the same time the poster did everything he could to demonize 50% of the country?


I didn't demonize 50 percent of the country. Most people are liberal on some things and conservative on others. There are conservative problems as well, but we aren't talking about those right now. We are talking about the ridiculious notion that liberals are for the liberty and justice of all. Which is hardly the case. I am a liberal and a conservative and these titles aren't groups at the level I am talking about. They are beliefs and there is no way to group people on individual beliefs.

Sully
09-02-2008, 09:51 AM
Most of it was true, but FTR, I can find dishonesty in any article during election years......

So beyond the lack of accuracy in something that seems to be part of the crux of her "conservatism." You also find no problem with the villification of liberals throughout the article? You think all those descriptions are accurate and widespread among "the left?"

Uncle_Ted
09-02-2008, 10:00 AM
Not even close to being true. What holds people back in this country is one person and one person only: Themselves.

Back to the topic: When you make laws that only apply to certain groups of people you are part of the problem and this act is one of the liberal building blocks anymore. Affirmative Action is racist and sexist and doesn't pass constitutional mustard. Yet it's allowed because of liberal ideals. Obama, champion of the liberals in this election, breaks down Americans into 17 different hyphenated groups on his own website. This is a problem. We can't all be one in this country and there can be NO justice for all, change, or hope as long as we keep labeling ourselves to seperate each other from one another.

Exactly how do you propose to remedy the economics effects of racism? Or do you claim that there are no such lingering effects?

Remember that America is still as much a "nepotocracy" as it is a "meritocracy" ... W didn't get to be president based on a stellar track record in business and a 4.0 GPA.

Like it or not, a lot of middle- and upper-class whites have a head start in life that isn't shared by most blacks. That is the legacy of slavery and racism. There's a reason why blacks are disproportionately below the poverty line, why blacks make up 13.5% of the population but only own 5% of all businesses.

You can choose not to care, but it's intellectually dishonest to claim that we've waived some magic wand and made everyone "equal". We're getting there, but we're not there yet ... it's a little too early to break out the "mission accomplished" banners.

penchief
09-02-2008, 10:02 AM
The dems need to take her out at the knee's BEFORE she gets any type of Political momentum. She looks to good to be true and the dems know it.
The dems are so afraid of Governor Palen that they crossed the line and attacked her family :shake:

You guys are only hoping. You can keep on accusing dems of being this and being that but the problem is not with the dems. The problem is with the republican party which has made winning elections a higher priority than good governance.

That is why republicans are the biggest corporate whores, beholden to the oil industry, pharmaceutical industry, insurance industry, energy industry, and banking industry. That is why our civil liberties and our privacy are being eroded while governmental secrecy and abuses of power are growing. And that is why they picked Palin.

You can talk all you want about the attacks on Palin's family. They are not coming from the democratic party and they are not coming from the Obama/Biden ticket. But the irony is that it is the republican party that has perpetuated personal attacks as the primary tact of their presidential campaigns over the last three decades and now they are whining about how unfair it is. It never seemed to come back and bite republicans in the ass so what makes you so sure it will bite democrats in the ass?

Say what you want about Obama's experience compared to Palin's. But one thing separates them. Obama proved his mettle by fire. He not only survived possibly the most greuling presidential primary of modern times, he won it. His organizational abilities and his executive abilities had much to do with that. And he inspired millions of people along the way. If that weren't true, you might have a point. But that alone is evidence that he has earned the nomination. Palin simply had to be picked because she satisfied an ideological need and a pandering need.

BucEyedPea
09-02-2008, 10:03 AM
Like it or not, a lot of middle- and upper-class whites have a head start in life that isn't shared by most blacks.

I agree. I just don't understand why it's the federal govts job to fix it. It's up to them. It begins with the individual first.

Uncle_Ted
09-02-2008, 10:05 AM
Did I just read a post about how it's bad to separate people into groups... while at the same time the poster did everything he could to demonize 50% of the country?

Reminds me of something I saw on the Daily Show recently: RWNJ's really do love America, they just hate half the people living in it. :D

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 10:09 AM
You guys are only hoping. You can keep on accusing dems of being this and being that but the problem is not with the dems. The problem is with the republican party which has made winning elections a higher priority than good governance.

That is why republicans are the biggest corporate whores, beholden to the oil industry, pharmaceutical industry, insurance industry, energy industry, and banking industry. That is why our civil liberties and our privacy are being eroded while governmental secrecy and abuses of power are growing. And that is why they picked Palin.

You can talk all you want about the attacks on Palin's family. They are not coming from the democratic party and they are not coming from the Obama/Biden ticket. But the irony is that it is the republican party that has perpetuated personal attacks as the primary tact of their presidential campaigns over the last three decades and now they are whining about how unfair it is. It never seemed to come back and bite republicans in the ass so what makes you so sure it will bite democrats in the ass?

Say what you want about Obama's experience compared to Palin's. But one thing separates them. Obama proved his mettle by fire. He not only survived possibly the most greuling presidential primary of modern times, he won it. His organizational abilities and his executive abilities had much to do with that. And he inspired millions of people along the way. If that weren't true, you might have a point. But that alone is evidence that he has earned the nomination. Palin simply had to be picked because she satisfied an ideological need and a pandering need.

ONLY IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS do you really beleave that. Keep smoking that funny stuff dude. Palen is your antichrist.

penchief
09-02-2008, 10:11 AM
ONLY IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS do you really beleave that. Keep smoking that funny stuff dude. Palen is your antichrist.

Nice response. Sounds like a typical republican response worthy of our vote.

mlyonsd
09-02-2008, 10:13 AM
Say what you want about Obama's experience compared to Palin's. But one thing separates them. Obama proved his mettle by fire. He not only survived possibly the most greuling presidential primary of modern times, he won it. His organizational abilities and his executive abilities had much to do with that. And he inspired millions of people along the way. If that weren't true, you might have a point. But that alone is evidence that he has earned the nomination. Palin simply had to be picked because she satisfied an ideological need and a pandering need.

Winning a campaign doesn't prove anything about your mettle.

Cave Johnson
09-02-2008, 10:22 AM
The dems need to take her out at the knee's BEFORE she gets any type of Political momentum. She looks to good to be true and the dems know it.
The dems are so afraid of Governor Palen that they crossed the line and attacked her family :shake:

It's not momentum, it's Joe-mentum.

Objectively, she looks terrible, which is why she isn't polling well among undecideds. Once more light is shed on her "alleged" fiscal conservatism, separatist ties, Troopergate, her inconsistent at best stances on the bridge to nowhere & earmarks, etc, it's only going to get worse.

Winning a campaign doesn't prove anything about your mettle.

What I think Penchief is trying to say is that it's a reflection on Obama's executive skillz. If you think we should count Palin's time as a mayor of a town of 5K in her experience, then Barry's management of a campaign staff multiple times larger than the city goverment should be considered.

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 10:26 AM
Nice response. Sounds like a typical republican response worthy of our vote.

And many of us have expected nothing of any significance from you. Your response is just typical left wing drivel that makes you feel good.

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 10:28 AM
Exactly how do you propose to remedy the economics effects of racism? Or do you claim that there are no such lingering effects?

Remember that America is still as much a "nepotocracy" as it is a "meritocracy" ... W didn't get to be president based on a stellar track record in business and a 4.0 GPA.

Like it or not, a lot of middle- and upper-class whites have a head start in life that isn't shared by most blacks. That is the legacy of slavery and racism. There's a reason why blacks are disproportionately below the poverty line, why blacks make up 13.5% of the population but only own 5% of all businesses.

You can choose not to care, but it's intellectually dishonest to claim that we've waived some magic wand and made everyone "equal". We're getting there, but we're not there yet ... it's a little too early to break out the "mission accomplished" banners.


I just know that you DON'T do it by making laws that are racist and sexist. Of course the lingering notion that a black man or woman doesn't have an opportunity in this country is old, ragged, and tired. Of course, once Obama is elected the bitching and moaning will fall on more deaf ears. People need to get off the "someboby else did this to me" routine, and start getting on the "I am in control of my own life routine", and we'll all be better off.

There is only one person responsible for my failures and successes:

ME

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 10:32 AM
Reminds me of something I saw on the Daily Show recently: RWNJ's really do love America, they just hate half the people living in it. :D


So do liberals. When some talk about legislation and questioned about its merits and effects on the people, they always say that people are smart enough or can't be trusted. Sometimes they are right, but in the course of their conversation it's evident that they don't like Americans either. It's best not to align yourself to any political party. To faction, is the disease of a democracy or republic.

penchief
09-02-2008, 10:32 AM
Winning a campaign doesn't prove anything about your mettle.

Considering the unique obstacles his candidacy faced from the start it reflects well on his forsight, his judgment, and his ability to bring people from all accross the spectrum together for a common purpose.

You folks who are trying to say there is no difference between Obama and Palin are employing wishful thinking. Let's see how she conducts herself on the national stage, what she has to say, and how effective she is in creating a clear vision for the country (one that is more pragmatic and substantive than the ideological positions and gender pandering that motivated McCain to choose her) before we put her on a par with Obama.

You have to ask yourself if she could have done the same thing that Obama did. And if the answer to you is, "yes," then I guess we'll see? But up til this point she has done nothing special to merit her selection other than be a token of ideology and gender.

Dick Bull
09-02-2008, 10:32 AM
So do liberals. when some talk about legislation it and questioned about ir merits and effects on the people, they always say that people are smaert enough or can't be trusted. Sometimes they are right, but in the course of their conversation it's evident that they don't like Americans either. It's best not to align yourself to any political party. To faction, is the disease of a democracy or republic.

it's funny to me that you misspelled smart

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 10:34 AM
it's funny to me that you misspelled smart


I am a busy guy, and I didn't mispell it so much as I miss-typed it. One implies I don't know how to spell the other implies I am in a hurry.

Uncle_Ted
09-02-2008, 10:35 AM
I agree. I just don't understand why it's the federal govts job to fix it. It's up to them. It begins with the individual first.

"Sorry for f*cking you in the a$$ for the last 200 years ... good luck in the future! Don't call us we'll call you. Love you XOXO."

Sorry Buc I think you make some good points on this board sometimes but here I have to vehemently disagree with you. Of course individuals have to take responsibility ... but this "it's all on them" garbage is just an excuse to ignore the problem, another way to say "not my problem".

If you don't give a damn about other people that's fine ... but you can't blame people for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps when they started out with the crappiest pair of boots.

It's called fixing the mess that you create. Especially when the vicitims of that mess are other Americans.

Dick Bull
09-02-2008, 10:37 AM
I am a busy guy, and I didn't mispell it so much as I miss-typed it. One implies I don't know how to spell the other implies I am in a hurry.

OH I am sure and am not implying that you aren't smart. Just stating it was funny to me. I got a twisted sense of humor I suppose.

Dick Bull
09-02-2008, 10:39 AM
"Sorry for f*cking you in the a$$ for the last 200 years ... good luck in the future! Don't call us we'll call you. Love you XOXO."

Sorry Buc I think you make some good points on this board sometimes but here I have to vehemently disagree with you. Of course individuals have to take responsibility ... but this "it's all on them" garbage is just an excuse to ignore the problem, another way to say "not my problem".

If you don't give a damn about other people that's fine ... but you can't blame people for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps when they started out with the crappiest pair of boots.

It's called fixing the mess that you create. Especially when the vicitims of that mess are other Americans.


Nice view uncle ted, I would have to agree that we shouldn't expect the govt. to fix the problem without addressing self responsibility first. It makes no sense to keep building a house along an earthquake fault.

penchief
09-02-2008, 10:41 AM
And many of us have expected nothing of any significance from you. Your response is just typical left wing drivel that makes you feel good.

My responses are actually more substantive than your responses. And they do reflect my conclusions based on my observation of politics and everyday life in this country for more than 30 years.

You can contend that the way I word my beliefs based on my conclusions are not objective and I might not argue with you. But I will say that my conclusions are based on objective observation. And it is because I have faith in objective reasoning that I am so adamant about my beliefs.

However, your unsubstantive responses tend to make me believe that they are based on emotion and indoctrination more than they are your own objective observations.

King_Chief_Fan
09-02-2008, 10:45 AM
I just know that you DON'T do it by making laws that are racist and sexist. Of course the lingering notion that a black man or woman doesn't have an opportunity in this country is old, ragged, and tired. Of course, once Obama is elected the bitching and moaning will fall on more deaf ears. People need to get off the "someboby else did this to me" routine, and start getting on the "I am in control of my own life routine", and we'll all be better off.

There is only one person responsible for my failures and successes:

ME

It is logic like this that causes me to be a fan of a bronco fan.

Dick Bull
09-02-2008, 10:46 AM
My responses are actually more substantive than your responses. And they do reflect my conclusions based on my observation of politics and everyday life in this country for more than 30 years.

You can contend that the way I word my beliefs based on my conclusions are not objective and I might not argue with you. But I will say that my conclusions are based on objective observation. And it is because I have faith in objective reasoning that I am so adamant about my beliefs.

However, your unsubstantive responses tend to make me believe that they are based on emotion and indoctrination more than they are your own objective observations.

I was with you until I had to get a dictionary. The second sentence.:D

Uncle_Ted
09-02-2008, 10:48 AM
I just know that you DON'T do it by making laws that are racist and sexist. Of course the lingering notion that a black man or woman doesn't have an opportunity in this country is old, ragged, and tired. Of course, once Obama is elected the bitching and moaning will fall on more deaf ears. People need to get off the "someboby else did this to me" routine, and start getting on the "I am in control of my own life routine", and we'll all be better off.

There is only one person responsible for my failures and successes:

ME

Affirmative action didn't just spring up out of some collective guilt for what America did to black Americans ... it started because just making a level playing field only goes part of the way to addressing racism. To address racism going forward sometimes you have to remedy the past. There's a reason why the Supreme Court requires affirmative action to be narrowly tailored to remedy specific wrongs.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you think a race is fair even though some of the runners are given a head start, then I guess I won't be able to say anything that will change your mind.

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 10:59 AM
My responses are actually more substantive than your responses. And they do reflect my conclusions based on my observation of politics and everyday life in this country for more than 30 years.

You can contend that the way I word my beliefs based on my conclusions are not objective and I might not argue with you. But I will say that my conclusions are based on objective observation. And it is because I have faith in objective reasoning that I am so adamant about my beliefs.

However, your unsubstantive responses tend to make me believe that they are based on emotion and indoctrination more than they are your own objective observations.



My responses are actually substantive. There short and to the point. It comes from being an adult business owner for more than 20 some years.
We make decisions on a daily basis that have meaning to many people,
EE's and customers. We don't go into alot of feel good drivel that you and other liberals often do. Your snobery responses to my response just shows you are one arrogant human. You think your responses are more meaningful than mine, thats only in your liberal world. By reading your responses, its clear to me that you are the one thats been slurping on the DNCMOVEON.ORGDAILYKOS indoctrination. Its very prevalent in your responses.

RaiderH8r
09-02-2008, 11:01 AM
Have you ever even met Clarence Thomas? I have on several occasions. He deserves his place on the court and is no "token". It's always interesting to see how people think that a black man in a high position is a token. Effing clowns.

No, it's interesting to see liberals casually banty about in racist terms when it comes to blacks or women who don't toe their ideaological line and never get called on it. THAT's interesting.

And they're none too subtle about doing it either.

Dick Bull
09-02-2008, 11:03 AM
No, it's interesting to see liberals casually banty about in racist terms when it comes to blacks or women who don't toe their ideaological line and never get called on it. THAT's interesting.

And they're none too subtle about doing it either.

Generalizing sweeping indictments about liberals is interesting.

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 11:05 AM
Affirmative action didn't just spring up out of some collective guilt for what America did to black Americans ... it started because just making a level playing field only goes part of the way to addressing racism. To address racism going forward sometimes you have to remedy the past. There's a reason why the Supreme Court requires affirmative action to be narrowly tailored to remedy specific wrongs.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you think a race is fair even though some of the runners are given a head start, then I guess I won't be able to say anything that will change your mind.


Define a head start. What does that actually mean. It's subjective relative to happiness.

penchief
09-02-2008, 11:10 AM
My responses are actually substantive. There short and to the point. It comes from being an adult business owner for more than 20 some years.
We make decisions on a daily basis that have meaning to many people,
EE's and customers. We don't go into alot of feel good drivel that you and other liberals often do. Your snobery responses to my response just shows you are one arrogant human. You think your responses are more meaningful than mine, thats only in your liberal world. By reading your responses, its clear to me that you are the one thats been slurping on the DNCMOVEON.ORGDAILYKOS indoctrination. Its very prevalent in your responses.

No. My response to your response was what it was because your response to my post didn't say anything.

And for your infomration I have never been to those sites. Ever.

I express my own beliefs in my own words. If you were observant at all you would know that I have always been way ahead of the curve when expressing my views. If you have been reading my posts for the last five years you would know that the blogs and the democratic party are just now catching up to my way of thinking.

If you don't believe me there are plenty of examples in the archives that will prove that my concerns about the direction of this country and the motives of this administration have been borne out long after I took heat on this board for expressing such unpopular opinions. Just the fact that you would make such a claim proves to me that my evaluation of your observation skills is pretty much accurate.

By the way, you don't have to be a snob to use your own skills of observation to arrive at your own opinions. And you don't have to be a snob to be able to word something you believe strongly in a way that is pertinent. You just have to believe in what you are saying firsthand.

Garcia Bronco
09-02-2008, 11:12 AM
Generalizing sweeping indictments about liberals is interesting.


Conservatives do that same things about other issues.

RaiderH8r
09-02-2008, 11:15 AM
You guys are only hoping. You can keep on accusing dems of being this and being that but the problem is not with the dems. The problem is with the republican party which has made winning elections a higher priority than good governance.

That is why republicans are the biggest corporate whores, beholden to the oil industry, pharmaceutical industry, insurance industry, energy industry, and banking industry. That is why our civil liberties and our privacy are being eroded while governmental secrecy and abuses of power are growing. And that is why they picked Palin.

You can talk all you want about the attacks on Palin's family. They are not coming from the democratic party and they are not coming from the Obama/Biden ticket. But the irony is that it is the republican party that has perpetuated personal attacks as the primary tact of their presidential campaigns over the last three decades and now they are whining about how unfair it is. It never seemed to come back and bite republicans in the ass so what makes you so sure it will bite democrats in the ass?

Say what you want about Obama's experience compared to Palin's. But one thing separates them. Obama proved his mettle by fire. He not only survived possibly the most greuling presidential primary of modern times, he won it. His organizational abilities and his executive abilities had much to do with that. And he inspired millions of people along the way. If that weren't true, you might have a point. But that alone is evidence that he has earned the nomination. Palin simply had to be picked because she satisfied an ideological need and a pandering need.

Winning elections the highest priority eh? Tell that to the folks at DailyKos who spew out their hate filled slander on a regular basis only to find it "reported but not reported" by the MSM. As in "There's a rumor circulating that Gov. Palin's fifth child was actually borne by her 17 year old daughter, but we won't report on unsubstantiated rumors." And then to be told by the liberals that there is no lefty media bias? And then Obama has the luxury of plausible deniability because, and I believe this, he doesn't know people in his campaign are coordinating with Kos. But Kos and their blogosphere minions are not only weiner wanking douchebags with creative imaginations and an axe to grind, but they are also political operatives within the Democratic party. Sure, Obama didn't tell them to spread this filth, sure Obama gets to take the high road, but Obama won't be asking any of his subordinates to answer honestly the question of, "Did we have anything to do with this?"

Republicans are whores? Shit, are you familiar with politics? The Dems licking the bootheals of the AARP at the expense of my social security isn't whoring? I'm cutting a good part of my check for the elderly to collect their check and that's fine. All I ask in return is that the issue be revisited for me and my generation but that won't happen because that's apparently not change we can believe in. F'n douchebags. Sucking puckers of the good folks at Emily's List, World Wildlife Federation, Greenpeace, and other communist pretend friends of the earth and humanity at the expense of all else isn't whoring? Please. R's are the whores of the banking industry? Are you f'n shitting me? Are you this oblivious? Who chairs the Senate Finance committee? Check out his FEC records and how much he's racked in in donations from banking. Chuck Schumer is the consummate political whore for the banking industry. Durbin is a shclock for the ethanol industry. Ask him where he stands on removing import tariffs from Brazilian ethanol and he will get positively apoplectic in opposition of it. Why? His commodities buddies trade all that good shit in Chicago, one of the most historically corrupt cities in America and consistantly run by Democrats.

Republicans created and perpetuated personal political attacks is an utter fabrication. Personal attacks in politics is about 12 seconds younger than politics itself. To proclaim otherwise simply demonstrates either the utmost intellectual dishonesty regarding political hostory or an abject ignorance of it.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 11:16 AM
Affirmative action didn't just spring up out of some collective guilt for what America did to black Americans ... it started because just making a level playing field only goes part of the way to addressing racism. To address racism going forward sometimes you have to remedy the past. There's a reason why the Supreme Court requires affirmative action to be narrowly tailored to remedy specific wrongs.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you think a race is fair even though some of the runners are given a head start, then I guess I won't be able to say anything that will change your mind.


ROFL

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 11:24 AM
No. My response to your response was what it was because your response to my post didn't say anything.

And for your infomration I have never been to those sites. Ever.

I express my own beliefs in my own words. If you were observant at all you would know that I have always been way ahead of the curve when expressing my views. If you have been reading my posts for the last five years you would know that the blogs and the democratic party are just now catching up to my way of thinking.

If you don't believe me there are plenty of examples in the archives that will prove that my concerns about the direction of this country and the motives of this administration have been borne out long after I took heat on this board for expressing such unpopular opinions. Just the fact that you would make such a claim proves to me that my evaluation of your observation skills is pretty much accurate.

By the way, you don't have to be a snob to use your own skills of observation to arrive at your own opinions. And you don't have to be a snob to be able to word something you believe strongly in a way that is pertinent. You just have to believe in what you are saying firsthand.


My observation skills are spot on thank you. They've served me very well.
I have been reading you for many years and my observations of you are
spot on. I don't need someone like you telling me what my observations are. My concerns for this country are just as valid as yours. We disagree on how to move the coutry forward. Yours just sucks .

But you do have a high opinion of yourself - which is good in many dealings, but it doesn't make your opins any better/worse than anyone else.

|Zach|
09-02-2008, 11:30 AM
This is all shaping up pretty well.

penchief
09-02-2008, 11:41 AM
My observation skills are spot on thank you. They've served me very well.
I have been reading you for many years and my observations of you are
spot on. I don't need someone like you telling me what my observations are. My concerns for this country are just as valid as yours. We disagree on how to move the coutry forward. Yours just sucks .

But you do have a high opinion of yourself - which is good in many dealings, but it doesn't make your opins any better/worse than anyone else.


So you've been reading me for many years and your observation is that I am "slurping on the "DNC.MOVEON.DAILYKOS." If your observation skills are so objective then why are you completely off base with this claim?

Your misdiagnosis only proves my claim that you are willing to make personal accusations rather than address my comments with something other than "I know you are but what am I."

I never said your concerns weren't as valid as mine. They are equally as valid as mine or anyone else's. I was only commenting on how you respond to a post with standard talking point responses rather than engaging the content of that post.

It isn't so much that I have a high opinion of myself. It is more the fact that I have been brought down to earth and have a more realistic opinion of myself. A realistic opinion of one's self and one's place in the world lends itself more to objective observation and objective reasoning than does false pride or self-righteous indignation. Which is one of the reasons I tend to be more willing to go to great lengths to explain my positions and my reasoning instead of relying on pithy remarks, talking points, or political smack.

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 11:50 AM
So you've been reading me for many years and your observation is that I am "slurping on the "DNC.MOVEON.DAILYKOS." If your observation skills are so objective then why are you completely off base with this claim?

Your misdiagnosis only proves my claim that you are willing to make personal accusations rather than address my comments with something other than "I know you are but what am I."

I never said your concerns weren't as valid as mine. They are equally as valid as mine or anyone else's. I was only commenting on how you respond to a post with standard talking point responses rather than engaging the content of that post.

It isn't so much that I have a high opinion of myself. It is more the fact that I have been brought down to earth and have a more realistic opinion of myself. A realistic opinion of one's self and one's place in the world lends itself more to objective observation and objective reasoning than does false pride or self-righteous indignation. Which is one of the reasons I tend to be more willing to go to great lengths to explain my positions and my reasoning instead of relying on pithy remarks, talking points, or political smack.


ROFL I have not misdiagnosed anything.

penchief
09-02-2008, 11:51 AM
ROFL I have not misdiagnosed anything.

Then why did you make a false claim?

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 11:57 AM
Then why did you make a false claim?

Only in your own world ...

DeezNutz
09-02-2008, 11:59 AM
The ideals of liberalsim (liberty and justice for all)

I thought some liberals took umbrage with the Pledge?

Direckshun
09-02-2008, 12:01 PM
I thought some liberals took umbrage with the Pledge?

Secularists take issue with the Pledge.

Sully
09-02-2008, 12:02 PM
Secularists take issue with the Pledge.

Some Christians take umbrage with the pledge.

DeezNutz
09-02-2008, 12:02 PM
No. My response to your response was what it was because your response to my post didn't say anything.


My response to your response of my response is that your response was really no response at all.

Direckshun
09-02-2008, 12:04 PM
Just to remind you folks, this all has happened in the past 24 hours. Before, I should add, reporters have gotten comfortable in Anchorage.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/the_palin_meltdown_in_slomo.php

The Palin Meltdown in Slo-Mo
By Greg Sargent - September 1, 2008, 6:20PM
On the same day that the Republicans were forced to dramatically cut back their convention activities, the Palin Meltdown unfolded with extraordinary speed. It's worth pondering the totality of what happened today, in a mere half day...

* The news that Palin once backed the Bridge to Nowhere went national.

* It emerged that Palin has links to the bizarro Alaska Independence Party, which harbors the goal of seceding from the union that McCain and Palin seek to lead.

* The news broke that as governor, Palin relied on an earmark system she now opposes. Taken along with the Bridge to Nowhere stuff, this threatens to undercut her reformist image, something that was key to her selection as McCain's Veep candidate.

* The news broke that Palin's 17-year-old daughter became pregnant out of wedlock at a time when the conservative base had finally started rallying behind McCain's candidacy.

* Barely moments after McCain advisers put out word that McCain had known of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the Anchorage Daily News revealed that Palin's own spokesperson hadn't known about it only two days ago.

* A senior McCain adviser at the Republican convention was forced into the rather embarrassing position of arguing that McCain had known about the pregnancy "last week" -- without saying what day last week he knew about it.

* It came out that Republican lawyers are up in Alaska vetting Palin -- now, more than 72 hours after it was announced that she'd been picked.

* Palin lawyered up in relation to the trooper-gate probe in Alaska -- a move that ensures far more serious attention to the story from the major news orgs.

DeezNutz
09-02-2008, 12:04 PM
Secularists take issue with the Pledge.

Some Christians take umbrage with the pledge.

Relax folks. Just poking a little fun at a gross over-simplification.

Direckshun
09-02-2008, 12:04 PM
Some Christians take umbrage with the pledge.
A Christian can be a secularist.

I'm both. I'm Christian and I believe the government should nevertheless remain secular.

DeezNutz
09-02-2008, 12:05 PM
A Christian can be a secularist.

I'm both. I'm Christian and I believe the government should nevertheless remain secular.

And are you a liberal?

Sully
09-02-2008, 12:06 PM
A Christian can be a secularist.

I'm both. I'm Christian and I believe the government should nevertheless remain secular.

I guess that's true. And I agree.

Direckshun
09-02-2008, 12:08 PM
And are you a liberal?

I am, but it's perfectly possible to be a conservative with those beliefs as well.

Matter of fact, government butting out of people's beliefs is actually a conservative idea more than it is a liberal one.

penchief
09-02-2008, 12:11 PM
Only in your own world ...

You accused me of visiting websites that I have never visited in my life. Why do you think you can get away with making a false claim without backing it up? Why did you opt for a false claim instead of an honest debate when responding to that post?

DeezNutz
09-02-2008, 12:11 PM
I am, but it's perfectly possible to be a conservative with those beliefs as well.

Matter of fact, government butting out of people's beliefs is actually a conservative idea more than it is a liberal one.

Absolutely.

The Pledge issue, however, tends not to be one that *most* conservatives see as something negative.

penchief
09-02-2008, 12:15 PM
I thought some liberals took umbrage with the Pledge?

I don't take umbrage with the pledge. I don't have a problem recognizing a power greater than ourselves. And mostly, the last line which confirms our country's commitment to "liberty and justice for all" is at the root of what this country stands for and what I believe is the single virtue worth fighting for the most.

DeezNutz
09-02-2008, 12:16 PM
I don't take umbrage with the pledge. I don't have a problem recognizing a power greater than ourselves. And mostly, the last line which confirms our country's commitment to "liberty and justice for all" is at the root of what this country stands for and what I believe is the single virtue worth fighting for the most.

Word.

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 02:13 PM
You accused me of visiting websites that I have never visited in my life. Why do you think you can get away with making a false claim without backing it up? Why did you opt for a false claim instead of an honest debate when responding to that post?

BOO f'n HOO. And we are to beleave something like that...go ahead and beat your chest if you wish. Many of your post are talking points and ideology right from there websites.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-02-2008, 02:43 PM
She threatens conservative credibility.

The amount of respect that you all are willing to lose while trying to polish this turd only further underlies my existing beliefs about the depths you'll go to while supporting a Republican just because of the name.

|Zach|
09-02-2008, 02:45 PM
BOO f'n HOO. And we are to beleave something like that...go ahead and beat your chest if you wish. Many of your post are talking points and ideology right from there websites.

The websites are where?

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 02:46 PM
The websites are where?




they're :D

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 02:51 PM
She threatens LIBERALS.




fixed your post....its now perfect btw

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-02-2008, 02:52 PM
fixed your post accuratley btw

Too bad you can't fix your own spelling.

penchief
09-02-2008, 03:02 PM
BOO f'n HOO. And we are to beleave something like that...go ahead and beat your chest if you wish. Many of your post are talking points and ideology right from there websites.

If those blogs and websites are sounding more like me all I can say is that it's about time. I have firmly held the same ideas I'm professing now ever since the day I set foot on this board. And I was expressing sentiments that were out of the mainstream long before they got picked up by the blogs that your are now citing. This is the only political blog that I have ever visited.

You don't have to believe me. But you should show more respect about things you don't know about by not making claims that you can't back up. All you're trying to do is belittle my viewpoints by accusing me of echoing someone else's talking points. If you are accusing me of lying then just come right out and say so. If you are interested in the truth, dive into the archives and pull up some of my golden oldies. It won't be hard to recognize that I've been consistent from day one and that I've also been ahead of the curve.

No matter what the topic you will find that I have been very outspoken on all subjects in ways that are uniquely my own thoughts. Heck, I've even coined a few phrases that I've seen used elsewhere since, like "Cheneyburton" and "retrocons." So the truth is that you are barking up the wrong tree when you accuse me of echoing talking points rather than formulating my own arguments.

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 03:09 PM
If those blogs and websites are sounding more like me all I can say is that it's about time. I have firmly held the same ideas I'm professing now ever since the day I set foot on this board. And I was expressing sentiments that were out of the mainstream long before they got picked up by the blogs that your are now citing. This is the only political blog that I have ever visited.

You don't have to believe me. But you should show more respect about things you don't know about by not making claims that you can't back up. All you're trying to do is belittle my viewpoints by accusing me of echoing someone else's talking points. If you are accusing me of lying then just come right out and say so. If you are interested in the truth, dive into the archives and pull up some of my golden oldies. It won't be hard to recognize that I've been consistent from day one and that I've also been ahead of the curve.

No matter what the topic you will find that I have been very outspoken on all subjects in ways that are uniquely my own thoughts. Heck, I've even coined a few phrases that I've seen used elsewhere since, like "Cheneyburton" and "retrocons." So the truth is that you are barking up the wrong tree when you accuse me of echoing talking points rather than formulating my own arguments.


Now thats something to be proud of, agreeing with dailykosdncmoveon.org.
Thats impressive on the resume.

I should respect you...lol, don't break your arm about having original thoughts. All of them are coded right from the daily kos and dnc.

penchief
09-02-2008, 03:24 PM
Now thats something to be proud of, agreeing with dailykosdncmoveon.org.
Thats impressive on the resume.

How am I agreeing with anybody when all I'm doing is speaking my own mind? I wish you would make your point.

This is exactly why it's so difficult debating people who don't like to address the points made in the post they are responding to. People who debate like you seem interested only in making personal insinuations intended to deflect from the merit of someone's argument, thereby, rendering that argument secondary to the motives you are assigning to them with your insinuations.

penchief
09-02-2008, 03:35 PM
I should respect you...lol, don't break your arm about having original thoughts. All of them are coded right from the daily kos and dnc.

I didn't say you should respect me. I couldn't care less whether you respected me or not.

I was simply saying that you should show more respect in general by not assigning motives to people as a means of belittling their argument. Especially when you aren't willing to address the content of their argument and don't have a clue about their motives.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 03:35 PM
If those blogs and websites are sounding more like me all I can say is that it's about time. I have firmly held the same ideas I'm professing now ever since the day I set foot on this board. And I was expressing sentiments that were out of the mainstream long before they got picked up by the blogs that your are now citing. This is the only political blog that I have ever visited.

You don't have to believe me. But you should show more respect about things you don't know about by not making claims that you can't back up. All you're trying to do is belittle my viewpoints by accusing me of echoing someone else's talking points. If you are accusing me of lying then just come right out and say so. If you are interested in the truth, dive into the archives and pull up some of my golden oldies. It won't be hard to recognize that I've been consistent from day one and that I've also been ahead of the curve.

No matter what the topic you will find that I have been very outspoken on all subjects in ways that are uniquely my own thoughts. Heck, I've even coined a few phrases that I've seen used elsewhere since, like "Cheneyburton" and "retrocons." So the truth is that you are barking up the wrong tree when you accuse me of echoing talking points rather than formulating my own arguments.

ROFL

penchief
09-02-2008, 03:37 PM
ROFL

Another typical rightie response.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 03:38 PM
Another typical rightie response.

Dude, your are priceless!

ROFL

penchief
09-02-2008, 03:38 PM
Dude, your are priceless!

ROFL

Thanks, man.

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 03:47 PM
I didn't say you should respect me. I couldn't care less whether you respected me or not.

I was simply saying that you should show more respect in general by not assigning motives to people as a means of belittling their argument. Especially when you aren't willing to address the content of their argument and don't have a clue about their motives.

Show respect in general, maybe you should present that to Hamas Jackass,
Holmes, Big Red Chief, IrsihJayhawk, JIZ, taco breath, and others. Your
post have alot in common with them and they've lacked respect for many posters on this BB for years.

The content of your argument is that Liberal thoughts and idea's are better for the country than conservative thoughts and idea's.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 03:48 PM
Show respect in general, maybe you should present that to Hamas Jackass,
Holmes, Big Red Chief, IrsihJayhawk, JIZ, taco breath, and others. Your
post have alot in common with them and they've lacked respect for many posters on this BB for years.

williamtheirish calls them the "big bad kids".

ROFL

penchief
09-02-2008, 04:02 PM
Show respect in general, maybe you should present that to Hamas Jackass,
Holmes, Big Red Chief, IrsihJayhawk, JIZ, taco breath, and others. Your
post have alot in common with them and they've lacked respect for many posters on this BB for years..

Simply posting liberal ideas does not equate to a general lack of respect for those whom I am debating. I think you will generally find that my posting style has pretty much always been civil. I would think that if you are as much of an objective observer as you claim to be, you would already know that. Am I perfect? No. But to argue that I have been uncivil would be a misrepresentation.

The content of your argument is that Liberal thoughts and idea's are better for the country than conservative thoughts and idea's.

In today's political environment that is exactly my point. The proof of the damage that right wing ideology has done to our country is in the pudding. We need to return to the fundamental liberal ideals that our country was founded on, specifically, "liberty and justice for all."

Ultra Peanut
09-02-2008, 04:05 PM
Palen Threatens Liberal Ideology is why all the Lunaticy has taken place the last 2-3 days. Just look at the thread Starters and why the liberals are printing and expanding on there stories. Liberal Lunacy is putting on a FULL Court Press against
Governor Palen. She represents everything they dislike about traditional family values.

The last 2-3 days should be made into a movie some day.Lunaticy? Really? LUNATICY?

banyon
09-02-2008, 04:06 PM
You do know that Clarence Thomas has anchored his judicial writings on the judicial ideas of the 1800's. I think he is smart. He just lives without the insight of the Age of Reason and of Science as a central limit as to what is possible. It is this fact that I don't like Clarence Thomas. His ideas do not incorporate those findings. It is instead, built upon a religious legal interpretation as his foundation FROM EUROPE.

I have met him on a couple of occasions as well, but I agree that these are the reasons I dislike his judicial philosophy.

But he is as nice and personable a man as you will meet. Scalia is like that too, but he's funnier than Thomas.

WilliamTheIrish
09-02-2008, 06:26 PM
williamtheirish calls them the "big bad kids".

ROFL

baba - booey.

WilliamTheIrish
09-02-2008, 06:27 PM
Lunaticy? Really? LUNATICY?

Yes. Beleave that. There. They're.

***SPRAYER
09-02-2008, 07:18 PM
baba - booey.


Fa fa.... PHOOEY!

tiptap
09-02-2008, 07:28 PM
I have met him on a couple of occasions as well, but I agree that these are the reasons I dislike his judicial philosophy.

But he is as nice and personable a man as you will meet. Scalia is like that too, but he's funnier than Thomas.

That is right. They aren't evil incarnate. They went and found legal precedent for the positions from the past for their beliefs from the past. And those were the arguments of the past. And though I am not a jurist, I understand they are well grounded. But they tend to be European. And stale.

I am sure they are quite verbally engaging gentlemen.

Dick Bull
09-02-2008, 07:28 PM
Show respect in general, maybe you should present that to Hamas Jackass,
Holmes, Big Red Chief, IrsihJayhawk, JIZ, taco breath, and others. Your
post have alot in common with them and they've lacked respect for many posters on this BB for years.

The content of your argument is that Liberal thoughts and idea's are better for the country than conservative thoughts and idea's.


Big Red Chief? really? I met BRC and he seemed like one of the coolest guys in the world? Maybe it's not them?

Mizzou_8541
09-02-2008, 07:34 PM
"Sorry for f*cking you in the a$$ for the last 200 years ... good luck in the future! Don't call us we'll call you. Love you XOXO."

Sorry Buc I think you make some good points on this board sometimes but here I have to vehemently disagree with you. Of course individuals have to take responsibility ... but this "it's all on them" garbage is just an excuse to ignore the problem, another way to say "not my problem".

If you don't give a damn about other people that's fine ... but you can't blame people for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps when they started out with the crappiest pair of boots.

It's called fixing the mess that you create. Especially when the vicitims of that mess are other Americans.

So then if it is not the individual that is responsible, it is the government?

Chief Henry
09-02-2008, 07:55 PM
Yes. Beleave that. There. They're.

If Penchief can pen some new words - so can I. Lunaticy is exactly what the wacky left has been doing the since Ms. Palen has been brought on to the mcCain Ticket.