Palin vs. Obama

[Mr. Kotter]

In the spirit of Irishjayhawk's philosophy, of "I'm just putting this out there--for discussion"....THIS ought to warrant some interesting responses from both sides.

And this is why the Dems harping on Pahlin's "inexperience" could back-fire, IMHO.

FTR, I am an Obama supporter, but someone who considers the Palin pick to be politically shrewd (if opportunistically manipulative) and bold (even if something of a gamble.) Baker is off-the-mark on a couple of points, IMHO. But I'm interested in what some here have to say.

Enjoy....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/sarah_palin_vs_barack_obama.html

September 01, 2008
Sarah Palin vs. Barack Obama
By Gerard Baker

Democrats, between s******s of derision and snorts of disgust, contend that Sarah Palin, John McCain's vice-presidential pick is ridiculously unqualified to be president.

It's a reasonable objection on its face except for this small objection: it surely needs to be weighed against the Democrats' claim that their own candidate for president is self-evidently ready to assume the role of most powerful person on the planet.

At first blush, here's what we know about the relative experience of the two candidates. Both are in their mid-forties and have held statewide elective office for less than four years. Both have admitted to taking illegal drugs in their youth.

So much for the similarities. How about the differences?

Political experience

Obama: Worked his way to the top by cultivating, pandering to and stroking the most powerful interest groups in the all-pervasive Chicago political machine, ensuring his views were aligned with the power brokers there.

Palin: Worked her way to the top by challenging, attacking and actively undermining the Republican party establishment in her native Alaska. She ran against incumbent Republicans as a candidate willing and able to clean the Augean Stables of her state's government.

Political Biography

Obama: A classic, if unusually talented, greasy-pole climber. Held a succession of jobs that constitute the standard route to the top in his party's internal politics: "community organizer", law professor, state senator.

Palin:A woman with a wide range of interests in a well-variegated life. Held a succession of jobs - sports journalist, commercial fisherwoman, state oil and gas commissioner, before entering local politics. A resume that suggests something other than burning political ambition from the cradle but rather the sort of experience that enables her to understand the concerns of most Americans..

Political history

Obama: Elected to statewide office only after a disastrous first run for a congressional seat and after his Republican opponent was exposed in a sexual scandal. Won seat eventually in contest against a candidate who didn't even live in the state.

Palin: Elected to statewide office by challenging a long-serving Republican incumbent governor despite intense opposition from the party.

Appeal

Obama: A very attractive speaker whose celebrity has been compared to that of Britney Spears and who sends thrills up Chris Matthews' leg

Palin: A very attractive woman, much better-looking than Britney Spears who speaks rather well too. She sends thrills up the leg of Rush Limbaugh (and me).

Executive experience

Obama: Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of his campaign staff and a vast crowd of traveling journalists

Palin:Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of 500,000 people in her state, and that impact crucial issues of national economic interest such as the supply and cost of energy to the United States.

Religious influences

Obama: Regards people who "cling" to religion and guns as "bitter" . Spent 20 years being mentored and led spiritually by a man who proclaimed "God damn America" from his pulpit. Mysteriously, this mentor completely disappeared from public sight about four months ago.

Palin: Head of her high school Fellowship of Christian Athletes and for many years a member of the Assemblies of God congregation whose preachers have never been known to accuse the United States of deliberately spreading the AIDS virus. They remain in full public sight and can be seen every Sunday in churches across Alaska. A proud gun owner who has been known to cling only to the carcasses of dead caribou felled by her own aim.

Record of bipartisan achievement

Obama: Speaks movingly of the bipartisanship needed to end the destructive politics of "Red America" and "Blue America", but votes in the Senate as a down-the-line Democrat, with one of the most liberal voting records in congress.

Palin: Ridiculed by liberals such as John Kerry as a crazed, barely human, Dick Cheney-type conservative but worked wit Democrats in the state legislature to secure landmark anti-corruption legislation.

Former state Rep. Ethan Berkowitz - a Democrat - said. "Gov. Palin has made her name fighting corruption within her own party, and I was honored when she stepped across party lines and asked me to co-author her ethics white paper."

On Human Life

Obama: Devoutly pro-choice. Voted against a bill in the Illinois state senate that would have required doctors to save the lives of babies who survived abortion procedures. The implication of this position is that babies born prematurely during abortions would be left alone, unnourished and unmedicated, until they died.

Palin: Devoutly pro-life. Exercised the choice proclaimed by liberals to bring to full term a baby that had been diagnosed in utero with Down Syndrome.

Now it's true there are other crucial differences. Sen Obama has appeared on Meet The Press every other week for the last four years. He has been the subject of hundreds of adoring articles in papers and newsweeklies and TV shows and has written two Emmy-award winning books.

Gov Palin has never appeared on Meet the Press, never been on the cover of Newsweek. She presumably feels that, as a mother of five children married to a snowmobile champion, who also happens to be the first woman and the youngest person ever to be elected governor of her state, she has not really done enough yet to merit an autobiography.

Then again, I'm willing to bet that if she had authored The Grapes of Wrath, sung like Edith Piaf and composed La Traviata , she still wouldn't have won an Emmy.

Fortunately, it will be up to the American people and not their self-appointed leaders in Hollywood and New York to determine who really has the better experience to be president.

Gerard Baker is US Editor and Assistant Editor of The Times of London

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Why don't you post the same article as written by Michael Moore, since he is about the same distance from the center as Baker?

[Mr. Kotter]

Why don't you post the same article as written by Michael Moore, since he is about the same distance from the center as Baker?

I don't have any idea who Baker is; I just thought he makes some interesting points. And I figured I'd add another Palin thread to DC. Realclearpolitics is a reputable site, IMHO.

Just another perspective, I thought. And not one we've heard much here, thus far.

But, alas; attacking the messenger, rather than the message is always worth a good try. I certainly enjoy it quite often. :thumb:

[beer bacon]

Obama's argument has always been about judgment, not experience. McCain picking Palin just highlights some real horrible judgment by McCain. McCain has spent tens of millions of dollars trying to convince the American people that "experience" is the most important quality for any President. He then turns around and potentially puts someone with less experience then Obama a breath away from the Presidency.

John McCain must have been joking in all those commercials, press releases, and speeches he made about experience making him more ready for the Presidency than Obama, because he clearly doesn't believe his own spin.

[HolmeZz]

And this is why the Dems harping on Pahlin's "inexperience" could back-fire, IMHO.

So when the Republicans were doing it to Obama, it was effective. When the other side does it to Palin, it could backfire.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't have any idea who Baker is; I just thought he makes some interesting points. And I figured I'd add another Palin thread to DC. Realclearpolitics is a reputable site, IMHO.

But, alas; attacking the messenger, rather than the message is always worth a good try. I certainly enjoy it quite often. :thumb:

Who said I was attacking you? I was merely asking a question. I doubt this thing really stimulates very much debate, since it's pretty clearly a hit piece against Obama. If it actually contained a quark of objectivity, or if it was some truly astounding dumbassery, it may, but as is, it's just partisan hackery.

[StcChief]

Obama's argument has always been about judgment, not experience. McCain picking Palin just highlights some real horrible judgment by McCain. McCain has spent tens of millions of dollars trying to convince the American people that "experience" is the most important quality for any President. He then turns around and potentially puts someone with less experience then Obama a breath away from the Presidency.

John McCain must have been joking in all those commercials, press releases, and speeches he made about experience making him more ready for the Presidency than Obama, because he clearly doesn't believe his own spin.
but McCain / Palin still more qualified than the jr.senator of Illinois's corrupt political machine..... Biden ranks with maverick style on D side..... more of loose cannon.....

[Mr. Kotter]

Obama's argument has always been about judgment, not experience. McCain picking Palin just highlights some real horrible judgment by McCain. McCain has spent tens of millions of dollars trying to convince the American people that "experience" is the most important quality for any President. He then turns around and potentially puts someone with less experience then Obama a breath away from the Presidency.

John McCain must have been joking in all those commercials, press releases, and speeches he made about experience making him more ready for the Presidency than Obama, because he clearly doesn't believe his own spin.


:spock:

Gosh, someone ought to tell that to the Obama's staff and surrogates then; because they are still meandering treacherously down this road....that IMHO, they don't want to go down.

FTR, I agree with you. Except I guess I understand that Americans vote for President, not Vice-President. IMHO, this is not a topic or tack that will help Obama.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

but McCain / Palin still more qualified than the jr.senator of Illinois's corrupt political machine..... Biden ranks with maverick style on D side..... more of loose cannon.....

McCain could have picked Roy III as his running mate and you would have supported him, constitutional crisis aside.

[Mr. Kotter]

Who said I was attacking you? I was merely asking a question. I doubt this thing really stimulates very much debate, since it's pretty clearly a hit piece against Obama. If it actually contained a quark of objectivity, or if it was some truly astounding dumbassery, it may, but as is, it's just partisan hackery.

I don't mean you attacked me, you are questioning Baker's credibility---which is fine; I'd just like your take (and that of others) on what he says.

[beer bacon]

:spock:

Gosh, someone ought to tell that to the Obama's staff and surrogates then; because they are still meandering treacherously down this road....that IMHO, they don't want to go down.

FTR, I agree with you. Except I guess I understand that Americans vote for President, not Vice-President. IMHO, this is not a topic or tack that will help Obama.

McCain flubbed his first major decision. He acted rashly, and now he is going to get burnt for it.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

:spock:

Gosh, someone ought to tell that to the Obama's staff and surrogates then; because they are still meandering treacherously down this road....that IMHO, they don't want to go down.

FTR, I agree with you. Except I guess I understand that Americans vote for President, not Vice-President. IMHO, this is not a topic or tack that will help Obama.

It's pretty goddamned easy to do.

You spend a 30 second campaign talking about McCain. Devote the first 18 to his claims about Obama's inexperience, two to his selection of Palin, and the last ten showing that he doesn't even believe his own words.

"Are we ready for a President who doesn't believe what he says to the American people?"

That ad writes itself.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't mean you attacked me, you are questioning Baker's credibility---which is fine; I'd just like your take (and that of others) on what he says.

It's in your quote of me....partisan hackery.

[beer bacon]

:spock:

Gosh, someone ought to tell that to the Obama's staff and surrogates then; because they are still meandering treacherously down this road....that IMHO, they don't want to go down.

FTR, I agree with you. Except I guess I understand that Americans vote for President, not Vice-President. IMHO, this is not a topic or tack that will help Obama.

Where was their evidence in this article that Democrats are actually going after Palin hard on the experience issue? I know Obama hasn't.

[Mr. Kotter]

So when the Republicans were doing it to Obama, it was effective. When the other side does it to Palin, it could backfire.

I don't think it was effective against Obama; however, by going after Palin so viciously....I think they are inviting scrutiny and a conversation that they don't really want.

[beer bacon]

I don't think it was effective against Obama; however, by going after Palin so viciously....I think they are inviting scrutiny and a conversation that they don't really want.

Who in Obama's campaign is pushing the experience thing hard right now?

[HolmeZz]

I think they are inviting scrutiny and a conversation that they don't really want.

Why? You just got done saying the experience argument wasn't hurting Obama. :spock:

[Mr. Kotter]

Where was their evidence in this article that Democrats are actually going after Palin hard on the experience issue? I know Obama hasn't.

:spock:

Surely, you jest....it's been the first or second sentence out of everyone of their mouths when asked by the media.

[dirk digler]

Sorry but this is a really stupid article that doesn't warrant much discussion.

Obama went through the gauntlet and was campaigning for 20 months and received over 18 million votes by Dems, Independents and Republicans and with those votes won a historic primary and the nomination. He is vetted and IMHO a majority of the people are comfortable with Obama now.

Palin was picked by McCain and he never vetted her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't off the ticket before the week is out.

[Mr. Kotter]

Why? You just got done saying the experience argument wasn't hurting Obama. :spock:


It hasn't to this point; I think it could if they really invite the scrutiny that will come....if they continue beating this drum. JMHO

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't think it was effective against Obama; however, by going after Palin so viciously....I think they are inviting scrutiny and a conversation that they don't really want.

This isn't rocket science. You don't go after Palin, she parodies herself. You show Palin as an example of McCain's own hypocrisy, and you focus on that.

Palin is a metaphor for McCain's own duplicitous nature and the fact that his rhetoric doesn't match his record.

[Programmer]

I don't have any idea who Baker is; I just thought he makes some interesting points. And I figured I'd add another Palin thread to DC. Realclearpolitics is a reputable site, IMHO.

Just another perspective, I thought. And not one we've heard much here, thus far.

But, alas; attacking the messenger, rather than the message is always worth a good try. I certainly enjoy it quite often. :thumb:

That's based on your preference. I'm sure that you would probably agree with MM as he is anti-republican as well.

[beer bacon]

:spock:

Surely, you jest....it's been the first or second sentence out of everyone of their mouths when asked by the media.

Citation?

[Programmer]

Sorry but this is a really stupid article that doesn't warrant much discussion.

Obama went through the gauntlet and was campaigning for 20 months and received over 18 million votes by Dems, Independents and Republicans and with those votes won a historic primary and the nomination. He is vetted and IMHO a majority of the people are comfortable with Obama now.

Palin was picked by McCain and he never vetted her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't off the ticket before the week is out.

Where is your proof that she was never vetted?

[Mr. Kotter]

Sorry but this is a really stupid article that doesn't warrant much discussion.

Obama went through the gauntlet and was campaigning for 20 months and received over 18 million votes by Dems, Independents and Republicans and with those votes won a historic primary and the nomination. He is vetted and IMHO a majority of the people are comfortable with Obama now.

Palin was picked by McCain and he never vetted her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't off the ticket before the week is out.

So, Obama has campaigned; while Palin has actually governed (executive experience, instead of being a partisan "lapdog" in the Illinios senate?)

FTR, I'm playing devil's advocate here; if you think I'm harsh...wait until the Republicans respond to this, if the Dems continue on this line of attack. Obama will be having to defend himself on ground that is shaky at best. If you and I want Obama to win in November (as I know we do,) that won't be helpful to the cause IMHO.

[Mr. Kotter]

Citation?

Are you serious?

:spock:

Get off the damn computer and go turn on the television....did you not watch any of the coverage since Friday.

ROFL

[beer bacon]

Are you serious?

:spock:

Get off the damn computer and go turn on the television....did you not watch any of the coverage since Friday.

ROFL

What representatives of Obama do you remember specifically attacking Palin because of her lack of experience?

[Friendo]

So, Obama has campaigned; while Palin has actually governed (executive experience, instead of being a partisan "lapdog" in the Illinios senate?)

FTR, I'm playing devil's advocate here; if you think I'm harsh...wait until the Republicans respond to this, if the Dems continue on this line of attack. Obama will be having to defend himself on ground that is shaky at best. If you and I want Obama to win in November (as I know we do,) that won't be helpful to the cause IMHO.

I think beer bacon answered you--if you saw the piece on 60 minutes last night, it was clear BO was emphasizing judgment.

[Mr. Kotter]

That's based on your preference. I'm sure that you would probably agree with MM as he is anti-republican as well.


ROFL


Holy shit; the cycle has come full-circle. I'm now "anti-Republican" in addition to being "anti-Democrat."

Wow. The audacity of idealogues! LMAO

[Mr. Kotter]

What representatives of Obama do you remember specifically attacking Palin because of her lack of experience?

Nearly ALL of them.

I think beer bacon answered you--if you saw the piece on 60 minutes last night, it was clear BO was emphasizing judgment.

That's not what his surrogates are doing.

[beer bacon]

I think beer bacon answered you--if you saw the piece on 60 minutes last night, it was clear BO was emphasizing judgment.

Please, let us not destroy the strawman Kotter and the GOP are so busy constructing.

[HolmeZz]

I think it could if they really invite the scrutiny that will come....

Experience is already the #1 knock against Obama's candidacy. Get with the real world.

[beer bacon]

Nearly ALL of them.



That's not what his surrogates are doing.

So, Obama is not making this experience argument?

[dirk digler]

So, Obama has campaigned; while Palin has actually governed (executive experience, instead of being a partisan "lapdog" in the Illinios senate?)

FTR, I'm playing devil's advocate here; if you think I'm harsh...wait until the Republicans respond to this, if the Dems continue on this line of attack. Obama will be having to defend himself on ground that is shaky at best. If you and I want Obama to win in November (as I know we do,) that won't be helpful to the cause IMHO.

She has been governor of Alaska for 18 months and in that time is already under investigation.

Also Obama is still a U.S. Senator which is pretty damn important as is McCain.

IMO the experience argument doesn't hold because the American people said Obama is qualified to be POTUS which is the highest standard.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So, Obama has campaigned; while Palin has actually governed (executive experience, instead of being a partisan "lapdog" in the Illinios senate?)

FTR, I'm playing devil's advocate here; if you think I'm harsh...wait until the Republicans respond to this, if the Dems continue on this line of attack. Obama will be having to defend himself on ground that is shaky at best. If you and I want Obama to win in November (as I know we do,) that won't be helpful to the cause IMHO.

She has "governed" the most sparsely populated state for 18 months. She's already being investigated for two ethics violations. She's already on record having completely lied about her role in the Bridge to Nowhere (and she pocketed the money for a Road to Nowhere).

She was the mayor of a town 1/2 the size of Fulton, Missouri and left said town in oodles of debt.

"That's a debate I'm ready to have."

Again, you are framing the acceptance of Palin through the lens of a recxjake type, who would accept either Lenin or Himmler as McCain's Veep.

I'll tell you this much, I firmly think that if she stays on the ticket, she costs him Florida.

[Friendo]

Please, let us not destroy the strawman Kotter and the GOP are so busy constructing.

that strawman might backfire on them;)

[Mr. Kotter]

So, Obama is not making this experience argument?

Axelrod, Brazil, Dean, Begalla, Kerry and several other talking heads on the shows this weekend.

In addition Bathtub boy (Olbermann,) Colmes, Cooper, Matthews, Blitzer, and others on the political talk shows.

Read the columnists along with their TV appearances: EJ Dione, Dowd, Kinsley, Tracy Rubin....and others.

Bon apatite!

So, Obama is not making this experience argument?

He doesn't have to; but his people clearly are as the above indicates.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Axelrod, Brazil, Dean, Begalla, Kerryand several other talking heads on the shows this weekend.

In addition Bathtub boy (Olbermann,) Colmes, Cooper, Matthews, Blitzer, and others on the political talk shows.

Read the columnists along with their TV appearances: EJ Dione, Dowd, Kinsley, Tracy Rubin....and others.

Bon apatite!

There is a difference between showing McCain's hypocrisy for making an experience argument and then choosing the mayor of Wasilla, and saying that Obama is a statesman with the experience of Ted Kennedy and Joe Biden combined to the 7th power.

[Adam]

I'll tell you this much, I firmly think that if she stays on the ticket, she costs him Florida.

If? There is no way she is dropping off the ticket short of a devastating scandal that demands it. If that happens McCain is done anyway. She's here to stay.

I'm curious though - why do you single out Florida?

[Cannibal]

Axelrod, Brazil, Dean, Begalla, Kerryand several other talking heads on the shows this weekend.

In addition Bathtub boy (Olbermann,) Colmes, Cooper, Matthews, Blitzer, and others on the political talk shows.

Read the columnists along with their TV appearances: EJ Dione, Dowd, Kinsley, Tracy Rubin....and others.

Bon apatite!



He doesn't have to; but his people clearly are as the above indicates.

I can tell you one area that Obama is more experienced: Running a national campaign and dealing with the spotlight of having to answer questions on National TV. Obama was put through a meat grinder by Clinton and survived and actually came out for the better. Palin has no experience on a national stage at all, we'll have to see if she is indeed cut out for it.

[Mr. Kotter]

There is a difference between showing McCain's hypocrisy for making an experience argument and then choosing the mayor of Wasilla, and saying that Obama is a statesman with the experience of Ted Kennedy and Joe Biden combined to the 7th power.

Hardly the strawman that beer bacon is envisioning though. :shrug:

[Mr. Kotter]

I can tell you one area that Obama is more experienced: Running a national campaign and dealing with the spotlight of having to answer questions on National TV. Obama was put through a meat grinder by Clinton and survived and actually came out for the better. Palin has no experience on a national stage at all, we'll have to see if she is indeed cut out for it.

Psssst. Americans will be voting for PRESIDENT, not V.P.

Thanks for your time, though. ;)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

If? There is no way she is dropping off the ticket short of a devastating scandal that demands it. If that happens McCain is done anyway. She's here to stay.

I'm curious though - why do you single out Florida?

Older Jewish voters who were staunch Hillary supporters are going to be appalled by her social stances.

[Cannibal]

Psssst. Americans will be voting for PRESIDENT, not V.P.

Thanks for your time, though. ;)

She will get PLENTY of air time, lets hope for your sake that she doesn't crumble under the pressure. That way you can continue your facade of bi-partisanship and try to remain popular with the RW.

[Mr. Kotter]

She will get PLENTY of air time, lets hope for your sake that she doesn't crumble under the pressure. That way you can continue your facade of bi-partisanship and try to remain popular with the RW.

Ah. The fiery scorn of a myopic ideologue; smells like napalm in the morning.

Good to know the culture war and petty partisan bickering are still alive in America.

:rolleyes:

[J Diddy]

Ah. The fiery scorn of a myopic ideologue; smells like napalm in the morning.

Good to know the culture war and petty partisan bickering are still alive in America.

:rolleyes:
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[Cannibal]

Ah. The fiery scorn of a myopic ideologue; smells like napalm in the morning.

Good to know the culture war and petty partisan bickering are still alive in America.

:rolleyes:

I would not call myself myopic, or an idealogue. I would definately admit that at this point in time I am partisan. But after the collective steaming piles of horseshit from the Right Wing Party over the last 8 years. You are damn right that I am partisan and I am not going to act any different to try and remain popular with people that espouse the same views that would contiue this Country on it's current course.

[Mr. Kotter]

I would not call myself myopic, or an idealogue. I would definately admit that at this point in time I am partisan. But after the collective steaming piles of horseshit from the Right Wing Party over the last 8 years. You are damn right that I am partisan and I am not going to act any different to try and remain popular with people that espouse the same views that would contiue this Country on it's current course.

Anyone who places partisanship ahead of the good of the country, is myopic in my view. If we are not able to set aside the partisan bickering and rancor that have dominated the last 30-40 years of this nation's history, we are going to need a helluva a lot more to pull us out of the mess we are in than lofty rhetoric.

However, if the climate of partisanship remains as impassioned and angry as that coming from you and some others, rhetoric is all we are likely to get. We sure are not going to engender the sort of cooperation to find the common ground that we need to, in order to get past the rhetoric. Then we'll, once again, have only ourselves to blame.

It's a good thing Obama understands this, and is trying to get past it (at least his rhetoric suggests he will.) He better hope he can overcome the anger and bitterness that you and so many others seem to be holding. Sometime we will have to let it go--or America's place in the world will affected, but this time permanently.

[BucEyedPea]

...married to a snowmobile champion,...

Waaa? She supports a ski bum? :eek: :shake:

[BucEyedPea]

If? I'm curious though - why do you single out Florida?

I'm curious too. :D

[beer bacon]

Sarah Palin asked about experience and politics in 2006, "When critics says, you know, "Sarah you don't have that 25 or 30 years of politics under your belt". I say, "Thank goodness I don't." I believe that that leads to kind of a disconnect from the people you are to be serving."

Maybe this is how she convinced McCain to make her VP?

[BucEyedPea]

Sarah Palin asked about experience and politics in 2006, "When critics says, you know, "Sarah you don't have that 25 or 30 years of politics under your belt". I say, "Thank goodness I don't." I believe that that leads to kind of a disconnect from the people you are to be serving."

Maybe this is how she convinced McCain to make her VP?

I doubt it, as she was just as surprised as anybody that she was considered and eventually chosen.

[Direckshun]

Thanks for the article, Kotter.

I hate quotathons, but I feel this insightful topic deserves one.

Political experience

Obama: Worked his way to the top by cultivating, pandering to and stroking the most powerful interest groups in the all-pervasive Chicago political machine, ensuring his views were aligned with the power brokers there.

Palin: Worked her way to the top by challenging, attacking and actively undermining the Republican party establishment in her native Alaska. She ran against incumbent Republicans as a candidate willing and able to clean the Augean Stables of her state's government.
The problem here is that the author never defines "the top." The top for both candidates is now, but the author only stops as far as Obama's Illinois state senate seat (as if that's the top), and goes all the way to a week ago for Palin.

If you cut ANYBODY's biography short enough, they'll look like a newbie.

The author leaves out Obama becoming a prominent and popular voice in the U.S. Senate who built a cult following amongst Democrats, and exercised that popularity by running modern history's most efficient primary campaign, toppling the biggest name in the party and pioneering several different campaign techniques that will be copied for decades by future candidates.

Political Biography

Obama: A classic, if unusually talented, greasy-pole climber. Held a succession of jobs that constitute the standard route to the top in his party's internal politics: "community organizer", law professor, state senator.

Palin:A woman with a wide range of interests in a well-variegated life. Held a succession of jobs - sports journalist, commercial fisherwoman, state oil and gas commissioner, before entering local politics. A resume that suggests something other than burning political ambition from the cradle but rather the sort of experience that enables her to understand the concerns of most Americans.
Other than the "enables her to understand the concerns of most Americans" part, which is a clear line of partisanship on the case of the author, I think this is an apt summary.

Obama has taken a more typical path to where he is now, and Palin's taken a far more unusual path. No argument.

Political history

Obama: Elected to statewide office only after a disastrous first run for a congressional seat and after his Republican opponent was exposed in a sexual scandal. Won seat eventually in contest against a candidate who didn't even live in the state.

Palin: Elected to statewide office by challenging a long-serving Republican incumbent governor despite intense opposition from the party.
Again, the author cuts off Obama's history as if it ends in the Senate. He omits the historic trail he blazed to the party's nominee, which is by far the tallest challenge he's ever faced, and the most impressive accomplishment he's ever earned.

The author, however, has no problem going all the way to a week ago for Palin. Although he leaves out that the incumbent Palin defeated finished third, so if Palin hadn't run at all the incumbent still would have lost. In addition to that the author omits that while Obama defeated the biggest name in Democratic politics to become a nominee (not to mention history itself), Palin was hand-picked without being seriously vetted.

Appeal

Obama: A very attractive speaker whose celebrity has been compared to that of Britney Spears and who sends thrills up Chris Matthews' leg

Palin: A very attractive woman, much better-looking than Britney Spears who speaks rather well too. She sends thrills up the leg of Rush Limbaugh (and me).
He's been compared to Britney Spears by his opponent, by that's beside the point.

But I've seen Palin speak twice now and it's hard for me to agree she's a good speaker. Her delivery is perfunctory, her voice doesn't resonate well at all when it's raised, she's coined virtually no rhetorically powerful phrases at all, and her body language is rather ordinary rather than Presidential. I'd put her in league with McCain rather than Obama. (I can hear the conservatives lining up to call me biased, which isn't unfair, but seriously, Palin in league with Obama?)

Executive experience

Obama: Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of his campaign staff and a vast crowd of traveling journalists

Palin:Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of 500,000 people in her state, and that impact crucial issues of national economic interest such as the supply and cost of energy to the United States.
I make no argument on the summary of Palin's executive experience. I think the perspective of Obama is cheap and it cuts against the author's legitimacy.

Forget about the fact that Obama flattens Palin regarding actions taken on a national and global level (as part of his job as a U.S. Senator), whereas Palin has virtually no record of even mentioning global or national issues. I know that's not "executive experience," but it's worth mentioning.

I would believe that executive experience would also include running one's own campaign. And while running a 20 month campaign may not affect as many people as running a state for 20 months, what Obama's achieved from that campaign is historic and deserves props from this stingy, selective author.

Religious influences

Obama: Regards people who "cling" to religion and guns as "bitter" . Spent 20 years being mentored and led spiritually by a man who proclaimed "God damn America" from his pulpit. Mysteriously, this mentor completely disappeared from public sight about four months ago.

Palin: Head of her high school Fellowship of Christian Athletes and for many years a member of the Assemblies of God congregation whose preachers have never been known to accuse the United States of deliberately spreading the AIDS virus. They remain in full public sight and can be seen every Sunday in churches across Alaska. A proud gun owner who has been known to cling only to the carcasses of dead caribou felled by her own aim.
Obama's summary is adequate, if slanted. I have no issues with it.

Palin's church has gone on record (http://harpers.org/archive/2008/08/hbc-90003486) saying some demented things as well. But the author has no problem overlooking these misgivings.

Of course, the author probably knows nothing about Palin's churchgoing, he just wants to mention Wright again, so he pretends this is an issue.

Record of bipartisan achievement

Obama: Speaks movingly of the bipartisanship needed to end the destructive politics of "Red America" and "Blue America", but votes in the Senate as a down-the-line Democrat, with one of the most liberal voting records in congress.

Palin: Ridiculed by liberals such as John Kerry as a crazed, barely human, Dick Cheney-type conservative but worked wit Democrats in the state legislature to secure landmark anti-corruption legislation.

Former state Rep. Ethan Berkowitz - a Democrat - said. "Gov. Palin has made her name fighting corruption within her own party, and I was honored when she stepped across party lines and asked me to co-author her ethics white paper."
The author has no problem fluffing it up, but let's face facts: Palin's entire record of bipartisanship is the ethics legislation. That's it. Nothing else is mention, nor is there anything else for there to be mentioned.

Obama's bipartisanship has a longer record than that. Period.

Point Obama. The author just doesn't have the guts to mention it.

On Human Life

Obama: Devoutly pro-choice. Voted against a bill in the Illinois state senate that would have required doctors to save the lives of babies who survived abortion procedures. The implication of this position is that babies born prematurely during abortions would be left alone, unnourished and unmedicated, until they died.

Palin: Devoutly pro-life. Exercised the choice proclaimed by liberals to bring to full term a baby that had been diagnosed in utero with Down Syndrome.
No issues.

Now it's true there are other crucial differences. Sen Obama has appeared on Meet The Press every other week for the last four years. He has been the subject of hundreds of adoring articles in papers and newsweeklies and TV shows and has written two Emmy-award winning books.
Here's the author pretending Obama's recorded statements over the last four years don't matter.

Gov Palin has never appeared on Meet the Press, never been on the cover of Newsweek. She presumably feels that, as a mother of five children married to a snowmobile champion, who also happens to be the first woman and the youngest person ever to be elected governor of her state, she has not really done enough yet to merit an autobiography.
Here's the author saying that Palin's complete lack of recorded statements on global and national issues doesn't matter.

Why? Because she probably doesn't feel like she warrants an autobiography -- only the Vice Presidency of the United States. It's pretty odd that we should expect more for an adequate book than we do for an adequate Vice President...

Then again, I'm willing to bet that if she had authored The Grapes of Wrath, sung like Edith Piaf and composed La Traviata , she still wouldn't have won an Emmy.[/I]
And here is just speculative bitterness from the author.

The article's concept was there. It started out even, and then just gradually become more and more slanted as the article goes on.

And there's nothing wrong with being slanted, if you can at least be TRUTHFUL when you do it.

[Programmer]

ROFL


Holy shit; the cycle has come full-circle. I'm now "anti-Republican" in addition to being "anti-Democrat."

Wow. The audacity of idealogues! LMAO

What does preference have to do with party affiliation?:spock:

[go bowe]

Sorry but this is a really stupid article that doesn't warrant much discussion.

Obama went through the gauntlet and was campaigning for 20 months and received over 18 million votes by Dems, Independents and Republicans and with those votes won a historic primary and the nomination. He is vetted and IMHO a majority of the people are comfortable with Obama now.

Palin was picked by McCain and he never vetted her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't off the ticket before the week is out.why does all this make think of harriet?

[whoman69]

Psssst. Americans will be voting for PRESIDENT, not V.P.

Thanks for your time, though. ;)

The pick of a VP candidate is always important, especially for one who is 72 years old with a history of cancer and is on record as stating his number one criteria is whether that person is ready to become president. The VP pick is important because it is the candidates' first presidential act. McCain failed in that regard, making a political choice instead of the criterion he set down.

[Direckshun]

why does all this make think of harriet?
I don't think this pick is as bad as Harriet Miers was, but it's close.

[Adept Havelock]

why does all this make think of harriet?

Harriet, sweet Harriet,

you acted cuckoo 'cause you thought the Right would approve you.

Sweet bird. Harriet, sweet Harriet, so knowing (W), so trusting (W), so bust- ed.

Harriet, sweet Harriet.

[Sully]

Harriet, sweet Harriet,

you acted cuckoo 'cause you thought the Right would approve you.

Sweet bird. Harriet, sweet Harriet, so knowing (W), so trusting (W), so bust- ed.

Harriet, sweet Harriet.

How could you go there without using the term, "Hard hearted harbinger of haggis."
One of the best written alliterations in the history of the English language. ROFL

[Adept Havelock]

How could you go there without using the term, "Hard hearted harbinger of haggis."
One of the best written alliterations in the history of the English language. ROFL

Nice. I'd forgotten that one.

[irishjayhawk]

What does any of this have to do with me?

[Direckshun]

I know you're out there, Kotter. I want to know what you think of my breakdown of the article.

[Mr. Kotter]

I know you're out there, Kotter. I want to know what you think of my breakdown of the article.

Honestly....I won't get to it, until at least tomorrow. Sorry.

I'm multi-tasking, and STILL behind at the moment. And you can see the "time."