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jAZ
09-08-2008, 03:18 PM
You wouldn't know this from the media coverage, but John McCain has twice had to abandon his central campaign strategy and react to Obama who has set the terms of this election.

Back in the summer, McCain was running a Maverick campaign saying that he promised to make this a different kind of election, about the issues. That was as close to the McCain of 2000 as we've seen.

When the polls didn't move, he fired his staff and hired Karl Rove's partners to try and create fear of Obama among the public, while they played up McCain's experience. He picked up the Hillary Clinton play book of "Experience" and started running with it.

Obama kept going forward as he did in the primaries and what happened?

McCain flinched again!

This time he picks Palin and rebuilds his campaign around her and the "change" theme.

It's really interesting to me that for the first time in... well ever... the Democrats are forcing the Republicans to play catch up. They've effectively forced McCain to play ball on Obama's terms ("change").

That's doesn't by any means ensure an Obama win in November. Not even close. But it's vastly different that in the past elections where its the Dems struggling to find a way to get in front of the Republicans.

If McCain loses this election I think the pundits will point back to this fact as one of the major problems with the campaign. McCain allowed Obama to define the terms of the election.

Never let that happen.

Rooster
09-08-2008, 03:21 PM
That's what politicians do. :eek:

Nothing to see here folks. Nothing to see here.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 03:24 PM
That's what politicians do. :eek:

Nothing to see here folks. Nothing to see here.

Actually, that's typically what failed politicians do. Dems know what I mean.

Successful politicians do the defining of terms, they don't let others define it for them.

Like I said, this is merely an interesting factor. It's certainly an unusual position for Dems to be in, politically.

Donger
09-08-2008, 03:25 PM
The Barack Hussein camp sure has been spending a lot of time talking about the GOP ticket recently, that's true.

irishjayhawk
09-08-2008, 03:28 PM
The Barack Hussein camp sure has been spending a lot of time talking about the GOP ticket recently, that's true.

Well, they laid out their policies pretty clearly and specifically on their website. I'm not sure what else there is to talk about.

Especially after McCain displayed super amounts of hypocrisy with the whole "not experienced" argument but hires Palin.

Donger
09-08-2008, 03:29 PM
Well, they laid out their policies pretty clearly and specifically on their website. I'm not sure what else there is to talk about.

Especially after McCain displayed super amounts of hypocrisy with the whole "not experienced" argument but hires Palin.

McCain has a website, too.

And, POTUS vs. VPOTUS.

irishjayhawk
09-08-2008, 03:29 PM
McCain has a website, too.

And, POTUS vs. VPOTUS.

You said GOP ticket, not specifically VPOTUS.

Donger
09-08-2008, 03:32 PM
You said GOP ticket, not specifically VPOTUS.

I don't mind it when Barack Hussein choses to point out Palin's inexperience. Quite the contrary; I like it. I hope he keeps it up.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 03:33 PM
The Barack Hussein camp sure has been spending a lot of time talking about the GOP ticket recently, that's true.

I don't get this. Clearly Palin (electorally at least right now) is the *strength* of the ticket. She's also the most vulnerable part of the ticket. Her public support is the more elastic of the two (by far).

Once you realize that she's having a positive impact, and given that she's so littered with ripe material... it would be stupid to let her sit there and look pretty for 2 months.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 03:34 PM
I don't mind it when Barack Hussein choses to point out Palin's inexperience. Quite the contrary; I like it. I hope he keeps it up.

IMO, they need to point out the fruad that McCain exposed inside his own case for office by picking her as VP. Having nothing to do with her experience.

Donger
09-08-2008, 03:35 PM
look pretty for 2 months.

Sexist.

Donger
09-08-2008, 03:35 PM
IMO, they need to point out the fruad that McCain exposed inside his own case for office by picking her as VP. Having nothing to do with her experience.

Yes, that's it.

memyselfI
09-08-2008, 03:36 PM
Actually, that's typically what failed politicians do. Dems know what I mean.

Successful politicians do the defining of terms, they don't let others define it for them.

Like I said, this is merely an interesting factor. It's certainly an unusual position for Dems to be in, politically.

I completely understand what you mean.

I mean, dontcha just hate politicians that promise to change politics and not do 'politics as usual' and to be positive and emphasize unity, hope, and change vs. personal attacks and the politics of destruction?

I'm with you. Politicians like this suck no matter which party they belong too. Democrats* know what I mean.



*Recovering

SNR
09-08-2008, 03:38 PM
McCain also fought a land war in Asia.

Chief Henry
09-08-2008, 03:41 PM
McCain finally got an audience last week. The audience liistened to him, man for the first time. Many people knew he was a POW, but most didn't know the real story behind
him being a POW. Palin ignited the fire, and now more people know more about John
McCains story because of Gov. Palin.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 04:18 PM
I completely understand what you mean.

I mean, dontcha just hate politicians that promise to change politics and not do 'politics as usual' and to be positive and emphasize unity, hope, and change vs. personal attacks and the politics of destruction?

I'm with you. Politicians like this suck no matter which party they belong too. Democrats* know what I mean.



*Recovering
What's not a personal attack in your opinion. I think it's entirely justified to go after her statements today and contrast them with her documented positions over the years. Somehow that's a personal attack?

jAZ
09-08-2008, 04:18 PM
McCain finally got an audience last week. The audience liistened to him, man for the first time. Many people knew he was a POW, but most didn't know the real story behind
him being a POW. Palin ignited the fire, and now more people know more about John
McCains story because of Gov. Palin.

Nothing to disagree with there.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 04:23 PM
Sexist.
You see?

Going after the weakness in my post. It's as if you know exactly what is effective and what is not effective in public debates like this.

Palin's record is crazy. Letting the McCain camp whitewash it, and thus abandoning the powerful argument that McCain's selection of Palin is an example of disasterous, party-first, country-last judgement... would be political malpractice.

Of couse RINGLEADER, Donger and Denise are big champions of the Dems commiting such an act, so offering sage advice to the Dems is far from a priority.

Donger
09-08-2008, 04:24 PM
You see?

Going after the weakness in my post. It's as if you know exactly what is effective and what is not effective in public debates like this.

Palin's record is crazy. Letting the McCain camp whitewash it, and thus abandoning the powerful argument that McCain's selection of Palin is an example of disasterous, party-first, country-last judgement... wouldn't me political malpractice.

Of couse RINGLEADER, Donger and Denise are big champions of the Dems commiting such an act, so offering sage advice to the Dems is far from a priority.

Don't blame me for what you wrote, jAZ.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 04:28 PM
Don't blame me for what you wrote, jAZ.
I don't blame you in the least.

I also don't blame you for avoiding the rest of my comments either.

Donger
09-08-2008, 04:30 PM
I don't blame you in the least.

I also don't blame you for avoiding the rest of my comments either.

Your petty comment voided the rest.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 04:33 PM
Your petty comment voided the rest.
Should I repost without the comment? Or am I just doomed forever?

Donger
09-08-2008, 04:34 PM
Should I repost without the comment? Or am I just doomed forever?

Too late now. I'm just a little surprised that you would throw that in there.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 04:39 PM
Too late now.
Oh crap!

Calcountry
09-08-2008, 04:40 PM
Actually, that's typically what failed politicians do. Dems know what I mean.

Successful politicians do the defining of terms, they don't let others define it for them.

Like I said, this is merely an interesting factor. It's certainly an unusual position for Dems to be in, politically.
What have you defined? Change?

If you mean, Changing our economy from a mostly Capitalist society to a Marxist one, then yeah, that's change all right.

Please define what in the heck CHANGE means to you folks. It is not enough to just say Bush Bush, we want Change, bush bush, Cheney woo hooo, we want change. Well, on second thought, that would be good enough for 45 % of the vote.

jAZ
09-08-2008, 04:42 PM
What have you defined? Change?

If my mean, Changing our economy from a mostly Capitalist society to a Marxist one, then yeah, that's change all right.

Please define what in the heck CHANGE means to you folks. It is not enough to just say Bush Bush, we want Change, bush bush, Cheney woo hooo, we want change. Well, on second thought, that would be good enough for 45 % of the vote.

You are missing the point entirely.

McCain wanted to run his campaign based on "experince". Obama wanted it to be based on "change".

One of them lost that battle, and it wasn't Obama.

As for definitions, that's an entirely different topic, though I will say that neither "change" or "experience" define themselves.

RINGLEADER
09-08-2008, 06:06 PM
The Barack Hussein camp sure has been spending a lot of time talking about the GOP ticket recently, that's true.

Actually I find it more interesting that Obama (and his veep, and every female Dem he can find) is spending so much time on the stump and in ads kicking up a fuss over the GOP's Vice-Presidential candidate.

They keep taking the bait. They don't seem to realize that changing your mind (see the Bridge To Nowhere) is okay when you're changing it to be on the right side of the issue (unlike Kerry who ended up changing his mind to not vote for the supplemental spending for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan or even Obama who finally admitted the surge worked or that raising taxes isn't good for an economy that is slowing - even though he's still would vote against the surge and raise taxes..LOL).

RINGLEADER
09-08-2008, 06:14 PM
One of them lost that battle, and it wasn't Obama.

No, politically-speaking Obama's main argument is built upon making people believe McCain = Bush. He better hope he can make it stick cuz it's the cornerstone of his campaign message. Part of the reason McCain gained double-digits in multiple polls (and why Obama is now saying voters are stupid if they don't believe he's the real agent of change) is because he hasn't won the argument that his change is better.

He'd bring change alright. The kind of change we haven't seen since Carter.

Then again, if Obama wins and turns out not to enact the military and technology cut-backs and the tax increases that he has promised then count me as one of the first to vote for him in 2012. Unfortunately, I think he'll keep his promises on those points.

penchief
09-08-2008, 07:08 PM
The Barack Hussein camp sure has been spending a lot of time talking about the GOP ticket recently, that's true.

I see you still haven't figured out who the candidates are yet.