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View Full Version : Elections So, are we going to talk about voter caging in Ohio?


'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:05 AM
This is despicable.

Ohio's Election Stolen Again? State May Face 600K Voter Purge in Coming Weeks
By , Advancement Project and Project Vote
Posted on August 13, 2008, Printed on September 9, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/story/94977/

Editor's note: In 2004, election integrity activists challenged the results of Ohio's presidential election before the Ohio Supreme Court, and convinced Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones (D-OH) and Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) to challenge the state's Electoral College vote before a joint session of Congress. The reaction by Ohio's then Republican-controlled Legislature was to enact a series of election reforms that punished likely Democratic voters. Some of the laws adopted were later thrown out in court, such as penalizing voter registration drives. But others, including a technical process to require certain voters to prove their registrations are valid on Election Day -- or lose their right to vote, remain in effect. Two of the nation's top voting rights groups, Advancement Project and Project Vote, this week reported 600,000 Ohio voters could be effected. This article is a combination of the releases both groups issued this week. George W. Bush beat John Kerry by nearly 119,000 votes in Ohio in 2004. -- Steven Rosenfeld, AlterNet Democracy and Elections editor.

Columbus, Ohio August 13, 2008 -- Nearly 600,000 eligible Ohio voters may be dropped from the voter rolls if Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner doesn't act to protect these voters, according to findings based on publicly available information discovered by Advancement Project and Project Vote.

These voters -- disproportionately voters of color and young voters -- are subject to being removed from Ohio's voter registration rolls without notice or a hearing because of the state's vague regulations on vote caging, a process that enables representatives of one political party to challenge the voter registration credentials of voters at polling places on Election Day.

The Ohio counties with largest numbers of returned notices prior to March 2008 Presidential Primary are Cuyahoga, Franklin, Hamilton, Lucas and Summit, where Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati and Toledo are located.

The mechanism of caging or challenging voters dates back to legislation passed soon after the 2004 presidential election.

In 2005, Ohio's General Assembly introduced legislation, House Bill 3 (H.B.3) that overhauled Ohio's election system. H.B. 3, in part, requires voter information mailings and amends Ohio's challenge statute(s). In particular, it requires that 88 county boards of election mail all Ohio registered voters a non-forwardable notice 60 days before the election. Each board must compile into a list any notices that are returned as undeliverable. These lists, in turn, are available as public records to any individual or group seeking to use the list as a "caging list" to challenge voters.

The amended challenge law no longer requires the county boards to provide Ohio voters with notice that they are being removed from the voting rolls or a hearing for them to defend themselves of a challenge. Rather, the Ohio law permits the boards to review their own records and make a determination to the validity of the challenge.

This law was effective beginning 2006 and covers all primary, general, and special elections from 2006 through the November 2008 General Election. Advancement Project finds it extremely interesting, that this law "sunsets" effective January 1, 2009.

"A single returned piece of mail is not a reliable basis for challenging the right to vote," said Donita Judge, Ohio staff attorney, Advancement Project. "Mail may be returned for many reasons, including errors in the database from which the mailing is derived, errors in the mailing labels, failure to include an apartment number or poor matching criteria."

Advancement Project and Project Vote would like to see the Ohio Secretary of State, Jennifer Brunner, issue a directive prohibiting Ohio electors from challenging Ohio voters whose name appear on any returned mailings and/or any past, current or future caging list. This is the best remedy to ensure that all Ohio voters are treated in a uniform manner during the November 2008 election because it permits the county boards to send out information to Ohio voters and at the same time ensures that all voters are permitted to vote without the threat of being placed on a list that is subject to challenge for no other reason than a returned mailing.

"Partisan, challengers who have obtained a list of returned letters shouldn't be allowed to strip Ohio voters of their right to update their addresses" said Teresa James, attorney with Project Vote. The lack of notice to challenged voters under Ohio's 2006 challenge law allows this interference to take place quietly and behind closed doors. This violates the principles our nation was founded on. It is imperative that Secretary Brunner establish guidelines so that partisan challengers will not be permitted to lodge unfounded challenges that clog the election process, burden poll workers and disenfranchise eligible voters."

Ohio's current law is internally inconsistent. For instance, Ohio law permits voters who move from one precinct to another to change their address from 28-days prior to the election, up to and including Election Day. Yet, if a voter is challenged and removed from the rolls within 20 days of the Election and their registration is canceled, without notice, this cancels the effectiveness of a voter changing their address since there is no longer a registration on file. It also violates Ohio law and equal protection of the laws because this voter is not provided the same meaningful opportunity to update a valid registration up to and including Election Day as other Ohio voters.

The new election law also unfairly impacts black and Latino Americans and other voters of color. Advancement Project anticipates that significant number of voters of color will be included on the county generated caging lists because census data indicates that they move more frequently than whites. Furthermore, in light of the fact that college students change residences frequently, it is anticipated that large numbers of young voters will be included on the lists as well.

"Voter suppression and intimidation is driven by a desire to maintain the status quo, concluded Judge." "These acts are carried out in an effort to deprive certain Americans, especially those most marginalized, of a voice in our democracy. Election Day is the great equalizer -- it is the one day where if all was right in our democracy, it would not matter if a person is rich, poor, black, white, educated or not, we all would have the same amount of power."

Guru
09-09-2008, 01:16 AM
The further I got into that document the more confused I got. ARe they legally registered? If so, whats the problem.

The author just kept going all over the place on that.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:33 AM
The further I got into that document the more confused I got. ARe they legally registered? If so, whats the problem.

The author just kept going all over the place on that.

They are legally registered. However, the legislature in Ohio (Republican-controlled at the time) passed this legislation as a form of retribution for Democrats' claims of election fraud in the 2004 Presidential election.

The law expires on Jan. 1, 2009 interestingly enough.

Basically, if you have moved, the document is returned because it can't be forwarded. Therefore you are put on a list of returned letters. A partisan can then get a copy of this list and challenge you as an illegitimate voter because you supposedly aren't registered in the correct precinct, even if a typo caused it to be sent to the wrong address.

Since minorities and students move far more frequently, they are disproportionately affected by this law. 35,000 voters were challenged in 2004, almost all of them A-A's.

The Ohio Sec. of State has said that it is unconstitutional, but the mere fact that the Ohio Republicans (or anyone, for that matter) would even cook up such a bill is sickening.

Guru
09-09-2008, 01:35 AM
They are legally registered. However, the legislature in Ohio (Republican-controlled at the time) passed this legislation as a form of retribution for Democrats' claims of election fraud in the 2004 Presidential election.

The law expires on Jan. 1, 2009 interestingly enough.

Basically, if you have moved, the document is returned because it can't be forwarded. Therefore you are put on a list of returned letters. A partisan can then get a copy of this list and challenge you as an illegitimate voter because you supposedly aren't registered in the correct precinct, even if a typo caused it to be sent to the wrong address.

Since minorities and students move far more frequently, they are disproportionately affected by this law. 35,000 voters were challenged in 2004, almost all of them A-A's.

The Ohio Sec. of State has said that it is unconstitutional, but the mere fact that the Ohio Republicans (or anyone, for that matter) would even cook up such a bill is sickening.

Every time I have ever moved, I re-registered. I never trusted the process in the first place. Not saying they are right but why trust the process?

Hell, you can register online these days.

All I care about is that people are legally registered. This sounds like a crappy way to treat the voter though. Still avoidable at the same time.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:38 AM
Every time I have ever moved, I re-registered. I never trusted the process in the first place. Not saying they are right but why trust the process?

Hell, you can register online these days.

Well imagine if you moved, re-registered and some idiot at the County Clerk's office typed in your address as 1410 Main instead of 1710 Main because they hit a number too low on the keypad. You can be caged for something that you had no control over.

Guru
09-09-2008, 01:44 AM
Well imagine if you moved, re-registered and some idiot at the County Clerk's office typed in your address as 1410 Main instead of 1710 Main because they hit a number too low on the keypad. You can be caged for something that you had no control over.

I understand that. I guess I tend to forget not all voters are as involved as others. If I don't receive my voter registration info every year by June, I check into it. It has not happened but once and that was the last time I moved. That is why I think everyone should go to the trouble to check it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:47 AM
I understand that. I guess I tend to forget not all voters are as involved as others. If I don't receive my voter registration info every year by June, I check into it. It has not happened but once and that was the last time I moved. That is why I think everyone should go to the trouble to check it.

Yeah, we're definitely the most psychotic 5% of the electorate. We'd even vote in Saddam's elections.

I agree with you that people should check up on it, but I also know that shit gets in the way and it's easy to procrastinate about things like that.

Saggysack
09-09-2008, 01:48 AM
They only have a hard time finding someone when it comes down to them voting. Come jury duty roll call time... no problem.

Guru
09-09-2008, 01:49 AM
They only have a hard time finding someone when it comes down to them voting. Come jury duty roll call time... no problem.
No shit!!! I wish they would lose my address for that crap.:cuss:

Saggysack
09-09-2008, 01:56 AM
No shit!!! I wish they would lose my address for that crap.:cuss:

Heh, I look at it as a half of a day off work. I've been called twice and still haven't served on a jury. My profession makes defense attorneys cringe, and prosecutors go ahead and mark me off the list. It's lovely.

Guru
09-09-2008, 02:17 AM
Heh, I look at it as a half of a day off work. I've been called twice and still haven't served on a jury. My profession makes defense attorneys cringe, and prosecutors go ahead and mark me off the list. It's lovely.
You don't work nights then do you.

Saggysack
09-09-2008, 02:39 AM
You don't work nights then do you.

I work nights. I work days. I work weekends. I have kids and a wife.

Guru
09-09-2008, 02:43 AM
I work nights. I work days. I work weekends. I have kids and a wife.
nothing worse than getting a jury summons when working nights. You technically are not working during the hours of the trial. My employer wouldn't do that to me though.

bkkcoh
09-09-2008, 09:29 AM
It shouldn't be so easy to do something so important.

I don't think I would have a problem to have to re-register to vote every so often, like when re-newing the drivers license.

J Diddy
09-09-2008, 10:07 AM
It shouldn't be so easy to do something so important.

I don't think I would have a problem to have to re-register to vote every so often, like when re-newing the drivers license.


it shouldn't be so difficult either

It's one thing if there is notice given, etc
sounds to me like getting a drivers license with no expiration date on it, cop pulls you ever and writes a ticket for having an expired license

Donger
09-09-2008, 10:25 AM
How about showing some personal responsibility, instead of blaming others for one's lack of thoroughness?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 10:31 AM
How about showing some personal responsibility, instead of blaming others for one's lack of thoroughness?

Yes, it's my responsibility to make sure that the government sends a re-registration card to a correctly typed address.

Donger
09-09-2008, 10:35 AM
Yes, it's my responsibility to make sure that the government sends a re-registration card to a correctly typed address.

I would never presume that the government doesn't make mistakes.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 10:39 AM
I would never presume that the government doesn't make mistakes.

And how exactly are you going to be able to check up on this if you can't receive the mail because it's sent to a non-deliverable/incorrect address? I guess personal responsibility now includes clairvoyance.

Donger
09-09-2008, 10:42 AM
And how exactly are you going to be able to check up on this if you can't receive the mail because it's sent to a non-deliverable/incorrect address? I guess personal responsibility now includes clairvoyance.

Are these people unaware that they haven't received their new card?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 10:48 AM
Are these people unaware that they haven't received their new card?

Read the thread, dumbass.

Donger
09-09-2008, 10:53 AM
Read the thread, dumbass.

Right, they are aware that they haven't. If they choose to follow up and correct the glitch, they'll get their new card.

If they don't, they won't.

Sounds like personal responsibility to me, nothing nefarious.

J Diddy
09-09-2008, 11:01 AM
Right, they are aware that they haven't. If they choose to follow up and correct the glitch, they'll get their new card.

If they don't, they won't.

Sounds like personal responsibility to me, nothing nefarious.

we should just give their voting rights to illegal aliens

Donger
09-09-2008, 11:05 AM
we should just give their voting rights to illegal aliens

Should be a relatively easy process, once Barack Hussein gets them their well-deserved licenses.

J Diddy
09-09-2008, 11:11 AM
Should be a relatively easy process, once Barack Hussein gets them their well-deserved licenses.


apparently it is a complicated process

StcChief
09-09-2008, 11:17 AM
I understand that. I guess I tend to forget not all voters are as involved as others. If I don't receive my voter registration info every year by June, I check into it. It has not happened but once and that was the last time I moved. That is why I think everyone should go to the trouble to check it. yes. Take responsibility and don't be a whiner about protecting "your voter rights".

Dis-enfranchisement is really stemmed from the voters neglect.

J Diddy
09-09-2008, 11:25 AM
yes. Take responsibility and don't be a whiner about protecting "your voter rights".

Dis-enfranchisement is really stemmed from the voters neglect.

and I guess it's just an added bonus when the majority of those people fit into the demographics of who you want to keep away from the polls.


right?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:08 PM
Right, they are aware that they haven't. If they choose to follow up and correct the glitch, they'll get their new card.

If they don't, they won't.

Sounds like personal responsibility to me, nothing nefarious.

I don't know how much more clear this has to be made. If someone incorrectly types in your address and the card is sent to a non-deliverable address and then bounces back you go on the list. There is no way that anyone could know or expect that someone else would incorrectly enter their address.

This is not a well-publicized law and no one but the most strident of people who are following up are going to know about this.

Furthermore:

Ohio's current law is internally inconsistent. For instance, Ohio law permits voters who move from one precinct to another to change their address from 28-days prior to the election, up to and including Election Day. Yet, if a voter is challenged and removed from the rolls within 20 days of the Election and their registration is canceled, without notice, this cancels the effectiveness of a voter changing their address since there is no longer a registration on file. It also violates Ohio law and equal protection of the laws because this voter is not provided the same meaningful opportunity to update a valid registration up to and including Election Day as other Ohio voters.

Donger
09-09-2008, 01:11 PM
I don't know how much more clear this has to be made. If someone incorrectly types in your address and the card is sent to a non-deliverable address and then bounces back you go on the list. There is no way that anyone could know or expect that someone else would incorrectly enter their address.

You mean other than their not receiving their card?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:18 PM
You mean other than their not receiving their card?

Do you realize that almost no one knows about this law and that you don't need a voter registration card in order to vote, you just need a photo ID?

Donger
09-09-2008, 01:19 PM
Do you realize that almost no one knows about this law and that you don't need a voter registration card in order to vote, you just need a photo ID?

Awesome. Did Barack Hussein sponsor it?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:24 PM
Awesome. Did Barack Hussein sponsor it?

Kind of hard for a US Senator to sponsor a bill that was pushed through in the Ohio Legislature. But please, think that your flippant response somehow overshadows you getting owned yet again.

Donger
09-09-2008, 01:26 PM
Kind of hard for a US Senator to sponsor a bill that was pushed through in the Ohio Legislature. But please, think that your flippant response somehow overshadows you getting owned yet again.

Like I said, if these people choose to ignore not getting their registration card, that's on them. Sorry, but I believe in personal responsibility.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:28 PM
Like I said, if these people choose to ignore not getting their registration card, that's on them. Sorry, but I believe in personal responsibility.

So if I move, register to vote, receive my card 6 months before the election (as I did this year) then some stiff incorrectly types in my address incorrectly and it gets sent back, I'm not being responsible even though I've registered, I have my card, and I have Photo Identification.

Donger
09-09-2008, 01:31 PM
So if I move, register to vote, receive my card 6 months before the election (as I did this year) then some stiff incorrectly types in my address incorrectly and it gets sent back, I'm not being responsible even though I've registered, I have my card, and I have Photo Identification.

Are you suggesting that in that scenario, you wouldn't be allowed to vote?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2008, 01:33 PM
Are you suggesting that in that scenario, you wouldn't be allowed to vote?

Absolutely. An idiotic Donger could challenge my vote and put me in electoral limbo.

Donger
09-09-2008, 01:41 PM
Absolutely. An idiotic Donger could challenge my vote and put me in electoral limbo.

In that case, I wholly support said law.