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View Full Version : Elections McCain/Palin: fatally wounded on the "earmarks" issue.


Direckshun
09-11-2008, 12:38 AM
I was having this conversation with patteeu in another thread not too long ago. Deserves its own platform.

If one of the very few issues you're going to champion, as a newly minted national politician aspiring for the #2 position in the country, is going to be earmarks, then you need to have a better track record than the one Palin has.

We've read that Palin has requested and received more earmarks per capita than any other state (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-03-22-earmarks_N.htm).

We've read that she supported one of the most egregious embarrassments of earmarking in a generation (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/palin.earmarks/index.html?section=cnn_latest), the Bridge to Nowhere, an example of pork that McCain himself criticized.

And remember when McCain earned some yuks and applause from the conservatives around here for his line at Saddleback: that he intends to cut down wasteful spending, such as $3 million to study the DNA of bears in Monana...

Well guess who supported $3.2 million to study the DNA of harbor seals in Alaska (http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=4E2E5BFD-18FE-70B2-A815903CFF648F68)?

What do you think McCain would say? Who knows, she was his pick. This is on both of them.

Now again, typically you can dismiss this shit as a typical earmarking job, but they're running on an anti-earmark platform. Palin's record on earmarking is far more absurd than most others, so you simply have to conclude that this line of debate is McCain/Palin grasping for straws on the stump.

Mr. Kotter
09-11-2008, 12:39 AM
You aren't as bright as I thought you were.

My. :rolleyes:

Ultra Peanut
09-11-2008, 12:40 AM
Bleedin' like a stuck, dare I say, pig.

Direckshun
09-11-2008, 12:41 AM
You aren't as bright as I thought you were.

My. :rolleyes:

Trust me Kotter, I'm all ears.

SBK
09-11-2008, 12:42 AM
The only one grasping for straws is the guy that started this thread.

Direckshun
09-11-2008, 12:45 AM
The only one grasping for straws is the guy that started this thread.

Again, I ask for a counterargument of any kind.

You have a VP candidate, one of whose foremost issues is earmark reform.

It turns out that this candidate has one of the highest earmarking records in the country as governor of his or her state, and has also championed the very kind of earmark he or she has vowed to abolish.

Do you trust this person on this issue? And why?

SBK
09-11-2008, 12:52 AM
Again, I ask for a counterargument of any kind.

You have a VP candidate, one of whose foremost issues is earmark reform.

It turns out that this candidate has one of the highest earmarking records in the country as governor of his or her state, and has also championed the very kind of earmark he or she has vowed to abolish.

Do you trust this person on this issue? And why?

I don't think the federal government should have anything to do with the public schools. However, I went to public school and took advantage of what the federal government had created. The service was there so my family used it. Does that make me a hypocrite?

Do I want that system overhauled? Yes. Do I want people elected who will give parents choices, or better yet, put public schools to the local level and get the federal government out of where it should not be? Yes. Does it make me a hypocrite for using the system government had in place at the time?

SBK
09-11-2008, 12:53 AM
Heck, I'm sure you're against the "Bush tax cuts for the rich" and I'm also sure you took advantage of every dime that came your way because of it right?

Is it wrong to cry out for a repeal of that tax code while at the same time taking advantage of the savings you now can?

ClevelandBronco
09-11-2008, 12:53 AM
Again, I ask for a counterargument of any kind...

Goodness. Where could you possibly find one? Maybe here?

The job of governor or mayor is different than the job of POTUS, or even Congressman/Senator, in terms of pork, IMO. As long as our system is set up the way it is, a governor or a mayor is not serving his or her constituents if he/she unilaterally eschews federal money. They're damn sure not going to get any federal tax relief just because they aren't accepting any pork. IMO, the onus is on our federal elected officials to spend federal money responsibly (which, for my money, means spend less), not on the locals who play the game as they encounter it.

I don't see any reason to discount Palin on this issue but I have no illusion that she's the second coming of Ron Paul or that she will have a serious impact one way or the other if John McCain ends up in the WH.

That "higher standard" bullshit is ridiculous for the reason given in my last post. She can believe that the federal system is broken even if she took full advantage of it to benefit the state she was responsible for, IMO. Afterall, turning away federal dollars as a governor wasn't going to fix anything. It would just increase the amount that the other states could sop up over time. You seem to be missing the fundamental difference between Palin and the other three major party candidates wrt this issue. She didn't work for the federal government. The other three were all in a position that they could have done something about earmarks (or the bigger issue of spending) if they wanted to. McCain did far more than Obama or Biden in that regard, but none of them did enough.

Obama must be judged more harshly for money accepted from lobbyists because he said he wasn't going to take any.

Direckshun
09-11-2008, 12:54 AM
I don't think the federal government should have anything to do with the public schools. However, I went to public school and took advantage of what the federal government had created. The service was there so my family used it. Does that make me a hypocrite?

Do I want that system overhauled? Yes. Do I want people elected who will give parents choices, or better yet, put public schools to the local level and get the federal government out of where it should not be? Yes. Does it make me a hypocrite for using the system government had in place at the time?

You're comparing yourself, as a child, getting a public education with Palin, as a Governor, getting $400 million to build a bridge to a remote Arctic island.

HolmeZz
09-11-2008, 12:54 AM
Trust me Kotter, I'm all ears.

Kooter makes retarded remarks calling out people for what he perceives to be retarded remarks, and then never follows up once he gets called out.

SBK
09-11-2008, 12:54 AM
You're comparing yourself, as a child, getting a public education with Palin, as a Governor, getting $400 million to build a bridge to a remote Arctic island.

Keep reading.....

ClevelandBronco
09-11-2008, 12:55 AM
Heck, I'm sure you're against the "Bush tax cuts for the rich" and I'm also sure you took advantage of every dime that came your way because of it right?

Is it wrong to cry out for a repeal of that tax code while at the same time taking advantage of the savings you now can?

He's a college student. There's no way on earth he pays income taxes.

Direckshun
09-11-2008, 12:56 AM
Goodness. Where could you possibly find one? Maybe here?

WTF? I've been replying there.

Get with the program, pops.

SBK
09-11-2008, 12:56 AM
He's a college student. There's no way on earth he pays income taxes.

Oh, so it's idealism over experience then.

Free college with Obama, vote for me!!!

alnorth
09-11-2008, 12:58 AM
I'm going to look at this like calling your shot at the plate.

You will probably strike/fly out (McCain wins) or get a base hit (McCain loses for a completely different reason), but if you actually hit this home run youll look like a genius, and probably bump this thread for posterity.

Direckshun
09-11-2008, 12:58 AM
He's a college student. There's no way on earth he pays income taxes.

I take night classes and work 2 professional jobs, pops.

ClevelandBronco
09-11-2008, 12:59 AM
He's a college student. There's no way on earth he pays income taxes.

Wait a minute. Maybe that's irish.

Hell, I can't keep all these leftists straight.

I know who penchief is, though, because I post under that name when I'm feeling argumentative.

Direckshun
09-11-2008, 12:59 AM
I'm going to look at this like calling your shot at the plate.

You will probably strike/fly out (McCain wins) or get a base hit (McCain loses for a completely different reason), but if you actually hit this home run youll look like a genius, and probably bump this thread for posterity.

I don't think this will be the reason McCain loses, if he does.

It will be one of many. Only in the rarest of scenarios does a candidate lose for one reason.

ClevelandBronco
09-11-2008, 01:00 AM
I take night classes and work 2 professional jobs, pops.

I stand corrected. There may be hope for you.

Dick Bull
09-11-2008, 01:00 AM
He's a college student. There's no way on earth he pays income taxes.


I was paying income taxes in high school. $2000 a year isn't that much of an income.

SBK
09-11-2008, 01:00 AM
I don't think this will be the reason McCain loses, if he does.

It will be one of many. Only in the rarest of scenarios does a candidate lose for one reason.

Like when he's black/jettio

Direckshun
09-11-2008, 01:02 AM
I stand corrected. There may be hope for you.

Yeah, I'm not going to get bashed as some lazy liberal who wants the government to pay my rent. I bust my ass to further my career(s) and I'm pursuing a master's on my dime. And I'm not an east coast elite: I've grown up and lived in the Ozarks my entire life.

Your identity politics fails here.

SBK
09-11-2008, 01:03 AM
Yeah, I'm not going to get bashed as some lazy liberal who wants the government to pay my rent. I bust my ass to further my career(s) and I'm pursuing a master's on my dime. And I'm not an east coast elite: I've grown up and lived in the Ozarks my entire life.

Your identity politics fails here.

Good for you.

(and in a few years you'll be joining the conservative ranks---calling my shot here)

ClevelandBronco
09-11-2008, 01:05 AM
Yeah, I'm not going to get bashed as some lazy liberal who wants the government to pay my rent. I bust my ass to further my career(s) and I'm pursuing a master's on my dime. And I'm not an east coast elite: I've grown up and lived in the Ozarks my entire life.

Your identity politics fails here.

I really was trying to indicate that I respect the way you're leading your life. If my attempt failed, then it was probably due to poor word choices.

Kudos to you, sir.

Dick Bull
09-11-2008, 01:06 AM
Like when he's black/jettio

jettio turns you on

SBK
09-11-2008, 01:12 AM
jettio turns you on

You're on the rocketship 'Annoying Poster' and you're soon to arrive to Planet Claythan.

Mecca
09-11-2008, 01:16 AM
Good for you.

(and in a few years you'll be joining the conservative ranks---calling my shot here)

Just because someone has money doesn't make them a conservative otherwise every Hollywood star would support the Republicans......yet they don't.

Dick Bull
09-11-2008, 01:16 AM
You're on the rocketship 'Annoying Poster' and you're soon to arrive to Planet Claythan.

circle jerking with monkeys and name tossing doesn't make you the salad king

ClevelandBronco
09-11-2008, 01:17 AM
circle jerking with monkeys and name tossing doesn't make you the salad king

If you'll allow me to borrow that for all eternity, that's going on my gravestone.

Dick Bull
09-11-2008, 01:26 AM
If you'll allow me to borrow that for all eternity, that's going on my gravestone.

it is yours

orange
09-11-2008, 04:06 AM
Is this as fatal as Joe Biden supporting the war in Iraq?

Alphaman
09-11-2008, 05:49 AM
Is this as fatal as Joe Biden supporting the war in Iraq?

No, because McCain has positioned earmarks as part of government corruption.

Ultra Peanut
09-11-2008, 07:38 AM
Is this as fatal as Joe Biden supporting the war in Iraq?CoughHillarycough.

Biden came out with great vengeance and furious anger against it when the lies started untangling. He cool.

***SPRAYER
09-11-2008, 07:47 AM
Trust me Kotter, I'm all ears.

So is B.O.

ROFL

Cave Johnson
09-11-2008, 09:16 AM
Substantively, what Pat fails to grasp is that Palin is so completely full of bullshit on this issue that it calls her capacity for truthfulness into question. After 7+ years of being lied to, I would hope the American public would expect more from its potential leaders.

I, however, fear that the American public, which apparently wants to watch TV programming like "Hole in the Wall", is collectively completely moronic and will elect the un-serious, cynical candidate and his spunky gal sidekick. Complicit in this will be the MSM, which is also responsible for bringing you said "Hole in the Wall" program.

Dick Bull
09-11-2008, 09:43 AM
So is B.O.

ROFL

all that means is he can hear good


Real good