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View Full Version : Elections OBAMA: NO MORE MR NICE GUY


RINGLEADER
09-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Obama campaign, which says there's nothing wrong and they're exactly where they want to be, has decided to "get tough". LOL. From Obama campaign manager David Plouffe:

In recent weeks, John McCain has shown that he is willing to go into the gutter to win this election. His campaign has become nothing but a series of smears, lies, and cynical attempts to distract from the issues that matter to the American people. But as Barack Obama said earlier this week “enough is enough.” This election is too important and the challenges too big to spend the next 54 days talking about trivial non-issues…

We will respond with speed and ferocity to John McCain’s attacks and we will take the fight to him, but we will do it on the big issues that matter to the American people. We will not allow John McCain and his band of Karl Rove disciples to make this big election about small things.

Senator Biden will be integral to that effort, both in pushing back on the lies that we’ll continue to see from our opponents, and in keeping the debate focused on delivering for everyday Americans. After all, that’s what Joe Biden has done throughout his career: passing the Crime Bill to put more cops on our streets, passing to the landmark Violence Against Women Act, and serving as a steadfast voice every day for those more concerned about the price of gas and saving for retirement than the latest political charade in Washington.

So much for a different kind of campaign from Obama (and I say that for effect -- he SHOULD be fighting back as hard as possible if he wants to win). Their first example of "getting tough" is an ad that says McCain is an old guy who doesn't know how to use a computer. Way to alienate the elderly vote hot-shot -- and for the record we're electing a commander-in-chief, not a tech support guy.

Seriously, Obama fans, you need to get a new campaign manager in there before it's too late.

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 10:55 AM
Way to alienate the elderly vote hot-shot -- and for the record we're electing a commander-in-chief, not a tech support guy.

Seriously, Obama fans, you need to get a new campaign manager in there before it's too late.

Seriously, if McCain can't use a computer in this culture he is out of touch. He doesn't have to be an expert but he must be able to understand and utilize technology. If he can't, he can't be trusted to lead this country in a technological culture within the world.

RINGLEADER
09-12-2008, 10:56 AM
Seriously, if McCain can't use a computer in this culture he is out of touch. He doesn't have to be an expert but he must be able to understand and utilize technology. If he can't, he can't be trusted to lead this country in a technological culture within the world.

Okay. :)

You miss the point that this ad doesn't do anything to knock McCain off-message and probably does more to endear him to other over 60 voters who are equally email illiterate than it does to make him look bad to younger voters. Watch -- McCain will turn this attack into a joke in his stump speech.

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 11:01 AM
Okay. :)

You miss the point that this ad doesn't do anything to knock McCain off-message and probably does more to endear him to other over 60 voters who are equally email illiterate than it does to make him look bad to younger voters. Watch -- McCain will turn this attack into a joke in his stump speech.


Fair enough. We'll see.

vailpass
09-12-2008, 11:01 AM
Seriously, if McCain can't use a computer in this culture he is out of touch. He doesn't have to be an expert but he must be able to understand and utilize technology. If he can't, he can't be trusted to lead this country in a technological culture within the world.

I'm curious: What situation can you foresee for a POTUS where a computer is the only device that can accomplish a necessary task, and nobody but the POTUS can be the operator of that computer?

Donger
09-12-2008, 11:07 AM
Foolish tactic.

WilliamTheIrish
09-12-2008, 11:08 AM
NO MORE MR CLEE - HEE-HEE-HEAN!!!!1111111111

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 11:09 AM
I'm curious: What situation can you foresee for a POTUS where a computer is the only device that can accomplish a necessary task, and nobody but the POTUS can be the operator of that computer?

As I said it is understanding the culture of the world that he is trying to lead in and navigate. Surely we can all agree that technology plays a huge role in our culture. If he can't use one of the basic tools of that technology, then it is fair to say he is out of touch with the culture in which we live. Further, he will have to make decisions that impact the culture of the world today. Certainly, he'll have advisors and people feeding him information. However, he MUST be able to synthesize the advice and information to make decisions. McCain's intelligence is already questionable. In my mind, this is goes further to show his inability to be an effective leader.

vailpass
09-12-2008, 11:15 AM
As I said it is understanding the culture of the world that he is trying to lead in and navigate. Surely we can all agree that technology plays a huge role in our culture. If he can't use one of the basic tools of that technology, then it is fair to say he is out of touch with the culture in which we live. Further, he will have to make decisions that impact the culture of the world today. Certainly, he'll have advisors and people feeding him information. However, he MUST be able to synthesize the advice and information to make decisions. McCain's intelligence is already questionable. In my mind, this is goes further to show his inability to be an effective leader.

Technology absolutely plays a key role in our culture. So does farming, medicine, education,transportation, nuclear energy, foreign policy, free porn sites, and many others.
Does a POTUS need to be a hands-on subject matter expert in all of these or should he appoint a competent cabinet/staff who gather and synthesize the data so he can make informed decisions on multiple issues?
I'm not arguing with you here, just trying to see where you are coming from.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 11:15 AM
Seriously, if McCain can't use a computer in this culture he is out of touch. He doesn't have to be an expert but he must be able to understand and utilize technology. If he can't, he can't be trusted to lead this country in a technological culture within the world.

You do realize that the POTUS is surrounded by a staff that IS computer literate? Right?

It has to do with delegation. No president needs to be literate on a computer, what he does have to be is smart enough to have a staff that can accomplish every task (leaving out the obvious tallents that Monica had) given to them.

When was computer literacy added to the requirements for the office of POTUS?

HonestChieffan
09-12-2008, 11:16 AM
The last great act of desperation?

WilliamTheIrish
09-12-2008, 11:17 AM
I love that song.

BIG_DADDY
09-12-2008, 12:16 PM
Way to alienate the elderly vote hot-shot -- .

Obama is the king of alienation and there is no reason to do it every time he does. Is it any wonder he is going down like a 16 year old prostitute on Polk Street?

SNR
09-12-2008, 12:40 PM
Seriously, if McCain can't use a computer in this culture he is out of touch. He doesn't have to be an expert but he must be able to understand and utilize technology. If he can't, he can't be trusted to lead this country in a technological culture within the world.And that issue matters to the American people? Obama wants to talk policy and he's dong that by clearing up the slander (alright in my book) and adding slander attacks of his own? Hmm?

YEP WE'RE BEING PROGRESSIVE NOW! CHANGE IN WASHINGTON! CAN WE BUILD IT? YES WE CAN!

http://carpefactum.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/17/bob_the_builder.jpg

irishjayhawk
09-12-2008, 12:43 PM
And that issue matters to the American people? Obama wants to talk policy and he's dong that by clearing up the slander (alright in my book) and adding slander attacks of his own? Hmm?

YEP WE'RE BEING PROGRESSIVE NOW! CHANGE IN WASHINGTON! CAN WE BUILD IT? YES WE CAN!



I don't see the "slander" message in the email. I just see it saying he's going to take it to McCain. And he clarifies that he'll do so in the "big issues" area not slanderous attacks.

I don't get it.

SNR
09-12-2008, 12:55 PM
I don't see the "slander" message in the email. I just see it saying he's going to take it to McCain. And he clarifies that he'll do so in the "big issues" area not slanderous attacks.

I don't get it.Ringleader just said they introduced a new ad that called McCain a stupid old man who doesn't understand computers.

That's not an issue. There's no issue in Obama or McCain's platform that talks about dealing with the elderly and technology.

This ad ALSO comes out after Obama says McCain's slanderous ads are unacceptable and then he releases one of his own.

He did a good job of cleaning up what McCain's been spreading around. He should do more of that and REALLY be the better man this election cycle by ONLY discussing either A) Issues or B) Positives to his own campaign.

irishjayhawk
09-12-2008, 12:57 PM
Ringleader just said they introduced a new ad that called McCain a stupid old man who doesn't understand computers.

That's not an issue. There's no issue in Obama or McCain's platform that talks about dealing with the elderly and technology.

This ad ALSO comes out after Obama says McCain's slanderous ads are unacceptable and then he releases one of his own.

He did a good job of cleaning up what McCain's been spreading around. He should do more of that and REALLY be the better man this election cycle by ONLY discussing either A) Issues or B) Positives to his own campaign.

I'd like to see said ad.

mlyonsd
09-12-2008, 01:00 PM
Obama purposely taking McCain's 100 years in Iraq statement out of context on multiple occasions was the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to Obama being different than any other politician.

He's just like any other. He'll say and do what it takes to get elected.

irishjayhawk
09-12-2008, 01:01 PM
Obama purposely taking McCain's 100 years in Iraq statement out of context on multiple occasions was the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to Obama being different than any other politician.

He's just like any other. He'll say and do what it takes to get elected.

How exactly was it out of context?

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:03 PM
How exactly was it out of context?

And I didn't think that you could come off any dumber looking! :eek:

irishjayhawk
09-12-2008, 01:04 PM
And I didn't think that you could come off any dumber looking! :eek:

You got nothing. Got it.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:05 PM
You got nothing. Got it.

You fit the name for the movie, but all in one person. Dumb and Dumber!

Chief Henry
09-12-2008, 01:06 PM
I love that song.

My sister use to sing that song ALL THE TIME...

irishjayhawk
09-12-2008, 01:06 PM
You fit the name for the movie, but all in one person. Dumb and Dumber!

ROFL

That's one of the weakest things I've seen.

irishjayhawk
09-12-2008, 01:08 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bQ2I0t_Twk0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bQ2I0t_Twk0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

While I can see "not being able to work a computer" as being beside the issues, I do have to ask at what point does that become kind of an inherent requirement?

Also, I don't see much else in the ad that is beside the issue. So if one line from one ad is the best you can do, I'm not sure anyone is trembling. Nor am I sure that it even qualifies as being "same ole politics".

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:12 PM
That's one of the weakest things I've seen.

It might be weak, but it's an absolute dead on tap on who and what you are!
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Chief Henry
09-12-2008, 01:12 PM
You fit the name for the movie, but all in one person. Dumb and Dumber!

You are in trouble now...:clap:

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:17 PM
While I can see "not being able to work a computer" as being beside the issues, I do have to ask at what point does that become kind of an inherent requirement?

Also, I don't see much else in the ad that is beside the issue. So if one line from one ad is the best you can do, I'm not sure anyone is trembling. Nor am I sure that it even qualifies as being "same ole politics".

Show me where it tells us in the qualifications for the office that you are required to use a computer?

Just in case you have missed it, the person that is perceived as the most powerful man in the world has a staff to do the menial tasks for him. Merely speaking the word will get him anything he needs.

Obama cries foul when McCain points out his weaknesses, which are many, and Obama focuses on the comments and makes ludicrious comments to follow it up.

Do we want a sniveling child in office? If AQ were to attack us again and he were president would he cry foul and start calling Bin Laden names and telling us that he isn't computer savvy?

Totally assinine.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:18 PM
You are in trouble now...:clap:

I doubt it, "he ain't got nothin'"

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 01:19 PM
Show me where it tells us in the qualifications for the office that you are required to use a computer?

Just in case you have missed it, the person that is perceived as the most powerful man in the world has a staff to do the menial tasks for him. Merely speaking the word will get him anything he needs.

Obama cries foul when McCain points out his weaknesses, which are many, and Obama focuses on the comments and makes ludicrious comments to follow it up.

Do we want a sniveling child in office? If AQ were to attack us again and he were president would he cry foul and start calling Bin Laden names and telling us that he isn't computer savvy?

Totally assinine.


God I hope they never send him an important email.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:20 PM
God I hope they never send him an important email.

Hey dipshit, staff = getting email 24/7/365 for the POTUS.

I'm sure you knew that ..... :rolleyes:

Baby Lee
09-12-2008, 01:21 PM
How exactly was it out of context?

Jesus!! Why do people continue to pretend that conversations haven't occurred?

And it's not that Obama simply took it out of context, he outright lied about McCain's position.

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 01:23 PM
Hey dipshit, staff = getting email 24/7/365 for the POTUS.

I'm sure you knew that ..... :rolleyes:

Well that will help the economy paying a person to do the sole job of fetching and reading the president his emails. Maybe Bush can show him how after his term is over.

irishjayhawk
09-12-2008, 01:25 PM
Jesus!! Why do people continue to pretend that conversations haven't occurred?

And it's not that Obama simply took it out of context, he outright lied about McCain's position.

Do tell.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:26 PM
Well that will help the economy paying a person to do the sole job of fetching and reading the president his emails. Maybe Bush can show him how after his term is over.

Dude, you honestly think that a President has time to surf the internet? Or that one would want to?

Your reliance on information on the internet is astounding. People across the nation live their lives without internet and without cell phones. Just because you can't find a way to function without them doesn't mean that the whole world is in the same rut that you are.

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 01:31 PM
Dude, you honestly think that a President has time to surf the internet? Or that one would want to?

Your reliance on information on the internet is astounding. People across the nation live their lives without internet and without cell phones. Just because you can't find a way to function without them doesn't mean that the whole world is in the same rut that you are.


Are you saying that email isn't a major communication technology?

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 01:40 PM
Technology absolutely plays a key role in our culture. So does farming, medicine, education,transportation, nuclear energy, foreign policy, free porn sites, and many others.
Does a POTUS need to be a hands-on subject matter expert in all of these or should he appoint a competent cabinet/staff who gather and synthesize the data so he can make informed decisions on multiple issues?
I'm not arguing with you here, just trying to see where you are coming from.

Nowhere did I say he needed to a subject matter expert. But the POTUS clearly cannot be totally clueless about any of those. As I stated before, McCain's intelligence is already questionable. If he has no insight into a subject, how can we expect him to be able to synthesize the information he's being provided to make informed decisions.

BTW, while free porn sites are available, I would not agree they are apart of our culture.

mlyonsd
09-12-2008, 01:41 PM
How exactly was it out of context?


“President Bush has talked about our staying for 50 years, maybe 100. We’ve been in Japan for 60 years, in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or killed,” McCain said at the time.



“John McCain wants to continue a war in Iraq perhaps as long as 100 years,” Obama said during a town hall meeting in Lancaster, Pa.


http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/01/mccain-obama-spar-over-spending-100-years-in-iraq/

If you don't think that's either taking someone out of context or just an out right lie I guess your objectivity is in question.

Donger
09-12-2008, 01:44 PM
Are you saying that email isn't a major communication technology?

Do me a favor: send an email to president@whitehouse.gov and see what happens.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:44 PM
Are you saying that email isn't a major communication technology?

Not one on one for the President of the U.S.

You can't live without it, but as I asked before, when would you think the President would need to "send an email"? AND, if he did want to send an email do you not think he would have a staff member do it for him?

Your expectations for the leader of the most powerful free nation in the world goes beyond common sense here.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:46 PM
Do me a favor: send an email to president@whitehouse.gov and see what happens.

Hell, he could send one to g.w.bush@whitehouse.gov and it would get to the exact same place - the dead email file.

Most likely an automated response is all you would get.

vailpass
09-12-2008, 01:49 PM
*
Nowhere did I say he needed to a subject matter expert. But the POTUS clearly cannot be totally clueless about any of those.
Do you believe a man in McCain's position can be totally clueless about any of the issues we listed?


As I stated before, McCain's intelligence is already questionable.
Facts to back up that opinion?

If he has no insight into a subject, how can we expect him to be able to synthesize the information he's being provided to make informed decisions.

BTW, while free porn sites are available, I would not agree they are apart of our culture.
1) Wrong, wrong, wrong.
2)Humor not your thing today? :)

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 01:49 PM
Not one on one for the President of the U.S.

You can't live without it, but as I asked before, when would you think the President would need to "send an email"? AND, if he did want to send an email do you not think he would have a staff member do it for him?

Your expectations for the leader of the most powerful free nation in the world goes beyond common sense here.

I expect him to know how to use a computer, in a world that's mostly all computerized and that's beyond common sense. Interesting.

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 01:50 PM
You do realize that the POTUS is surrounded by a staff that IS computer literate? Right?

It has to do with delegation. No president needs to be literate on a computer, what he does have to be is smart enough to have a staff that can accomplish every task (leaving out the obvious tallents that Monica had) given to them.

When was computer literacy added to the requirements for the office of POTUS?


AGAIN, it's not necessarily about him using the internet, email, IM or anything else. It's about him being in touch with American today. During the Democratic Convention the democrats painted McCain as a voice from the past. His inability to function with ever changing technology further strengthens that characteristic.

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 01:53 PM
*

1) No I don't think the POTUS can be totally clueless on the subjects (except the porn sites).

2) McCain was 893 out 897 (or something like that) in his class.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 01:58 PM
AGAIN, it's not necessarily about him using the internet, email, IM or anything else. It's about him being in touch with American today. During the Democratic Convention the democrats painted McCain as a voice from the past. His inability to function with ever changing technology further strengthens that characteristic.

Technology is not the answer to the problems of the world or the United States.

It's not that he doesn't know about technology, or the internet. He is just not a user. In his position he doesn't need to take the time to sit down and type you an email, or to surf the web. It's just not something that anyone in that position would spend time doing.

Knowledge of technology and being adept at using it are totally different animals. Knowledge of is important, using it is not.

A president does not need a computer at his side to effectively govern the U.S. He needs a staff.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 02:02 PM
Do me a favor: send an email to president@whitehouse.gov and see what happens.

Here is what happens.


On behalf of President Bush, thank you for your correspondence.

We appreciate hearing your views and welcome your suggestions.

Due to the large volume of e-mail received, the White House cannot respond to every message.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 02:02 PM
Technology is not the answer to the problems of the world or the United States.

It's not that he doesn't know about technology, or the internet. He is just not a user. In his position he doesn't need to take the time to sit down and type you an email, or to surf the web. It's just not something that anyone in that position would spend time doing.

Knowledge of technology and being adept at using it are totally different animals. Knowledge of is important, using it is not.

A president does not need a computer at his side to effectively govern the U.S. He needs a staff.

Nice spin, but illogical. Either way, we can agree to disagree. I think it is a telling indication of him not being the right person to be President in 2009 through 2012. He's out of touch. Perhaps he would have been a good choice in 1989 though 1992.

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 02:03 PM
Technology is not the answer to the problems of the world or the United States.

It's not that he doesn't know about technology, or the internet. He is just not a user. In his position he doesn't need to take the time to sit down and type you an email, or to surf the web. It's just not something that anyone in that position would spend time doing.

Knowledge of technology and being adept at using it are totally different animals. Knowledge of is important, using it is not.

A president does not need a computer at his side to effectively govern the U.S. He needs a staff.

Dependence on a staff member to do a job so simple and yet potentially important seems quite silly I would think

Donger
09-12-2008, 02:06 PM
Dependence on a staff member to do a job so simple and yet potentially important seems quite silly I would think

Do you really think that Putin or some other leader is going to send an email if something important comes up?

Programmer
09-12-2008, 02:08 PM
Nice spin, but illogical. Either way, we can agree to disagree. I think it is a telling indication of him not being the right person to be President in 2009 through 2012. He's out of touch. Perhaps he would have been a good choice in 1989 though 1992.

So you would rather have someone there with zero executive experience versus an experienced executive doing the job in the exact same manner without the daily use of the internet?

It makes no sense. If you believe that it's important for the president to use the internet while in office you misunderstand what the job is all about.

If McCain felt it important to be fluent with the internet I'm sure he could sit down in a few days and send you an email, but that is not even related to the important issues we face as a nation today. Not even in the same arena.

Hoover
09-12-2008, 02:09 PM
So Obama thinks that American will vote for an angry black man?

This guy was the perfect candidate a month ago. You have to be ready for the mud to fly in an election like this, he has shown that the heat of an intense campaign gets to him.

He shouldn't change who he is, he should change who he's attacking.

You can't focus on Bush or Palin, you have to focus on McCain.

What a dumbshit. Saying that he is fine is like an owner giving the HC a vote of confidence.

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 02:09 PM
Do you really think that Putin or some other leader is going to send an email if something important comes up?


Do you really know they won't?

Programmer
09-12-2008, 02:09 PM
Dependence on a staff member to do a job so simple and yet potentially important seems quite silly I would think


That shows how little you know about the office of President. I find that more disenheartening than most anyting. You are arguing a point when you haven't a clue as to what the President does on a day to day basis.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 02:10 PM
Do you really know they won't?

Percentages are against it.

Donger
09-12-2008, 02:11 PM
Do you really know they won't?

Something tells me that if that were to happen, it would be brought to McCain's attention.

This is silliness.

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 02:11 PM
So Obama thinks that American will vote for an angry black man?

This guy was the perfect candidate a month ago. You have to be ready for the mud to fly in an election like this, he has shown that the heat of an intense campaign gets to him.

He shouldn't change who he is, he should change who he's attacking.

You can't focus on Bush or Palin, you have to focus on McCain.

What a dumbshit. Saying that he is fine is like an owner giving the HC a vote of confidence.

Some will vote for an angry black man, just because of that. However, I do agree he needs to quit worrying so much about Palin. She has proven to be quite a distraction.

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 02:11 PM
Percentages are against it.

link?

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 02:11 PM
Something tells me that if that were to happen, it would be brought to McCain's attention.

This is silliness.

maybe someone sent him an email

Donger
09-12-2008, 02:16 PM
maybe someone sent him an email

What if Putin texted him, eh?

"OMG! WTFBBBQ! UN4TUN8 butt some1 launched our missiles! BRB... OK, GTFO!"

We'd all be doomed!

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 02:18 PM
What if Putin texted him, eh?

"OMG! WTFBBBQ! UN4TUN8 butt some1 launched our missiles! BRB... OK, GTFO!"

We'd all be doomed!

Yes because emails and text message are a communication form utilized by only teenagers, right?

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 02:19 PM
So you would rather have someone there with zero executive experience versus an experienced executive doing the job in the exact same manner without the daily use of the internet?

It makes no sense. If you believe that it's important for the president to use the internet while in office you misunderstand what the job is all about.

If McCain felt it important to be fluent with the internet I'm sure he could sit down in a few days and send you an email, but that is not even related to the important issues we face as a nation today. Not even in the same arena.

When did I say the understanding and the use of technology was the ONLY characteristic of importance for President? I do believe this is just ONE example of McCain being out of touch.

I do like how you tried to bring a characteristic of PRESUMED strength for McCain (experience) into this discussion. For me personally, it is not a matter of experience but preparedness. I wholeheartedly believe that Obama is prepared for the office of POTUS. He's been right on foreign policy issues (and we see the Bush Administration continually following his lead on these issues) and he has a better grasp of the economic challenges that face the majority of Americans in this country.

I really don't buy the notion that because McCain has been around for such a long time that he is more PREPARED than Obama. Further, McCain's choice to continually lie in this election reminds me of the same behavior that Bush exhibited to take us into this Iraq war. I don't see McCain as a trustworthy leader.

J Diddy
09-12-2008, 02:22 PM
When did I say the understanding and the use of technology was the ONLY characteristic of importance for President? I do believe this is just ONE example of McCain being out of touch.

I do like how you tried to bring a characteristic of PRESUMED strength for McCain (experience) into this discussion. For me personally, it is not a matter of experience but preparedness. I wholeheartedly believe that Obama is prepared for the office of POTUS. He's been right on foreign policy issues (and we see the Bush Administration continually following his lead on these issues) and he has a better grasp of the economic challenges that face the majority of Americans in this country.

I really don't buy the notion that because McCain has been around for such a long time that he is more PREPARED than Obama. Further, McCain's choice to continually lie in this election reminds me of the same behavior that Bush exhibited to take us into this Iraq war. I don't see McCain as a trustworthy leader.

QFT

:clap:

I think alot of people are confusing ability to hang around with experience.

memyselfI
09-12-2008, 02:22 PM
Okay. :)

You miss the point that this ad doesn't do anything to knock McCain off-message and probably does more to endear him to other over 60 voters who are equally email illiterate than it does to make him look bad to younger voters. Watch -- McCain will turn this attack into a joke in his stump speech.

I just saw this ad and I'm actually beginning to wonder if someone WITHIN NObama's campaign or the DNC is covertly trying to sabatoge him.

It is going to appeal to NObama's crowd but to no one outside of it. If he's spending money to shore up his base at this point then he's worse off than I thought.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 02:40 PM
When did I say the understanding and the use of technology was the ONLY characteristic of importance for President? I do believe this is just ONE example of McCain being out of touch.

I do like how you tried to bring a characteristic of PRESUMED strength for McCain (experience) into this discussion. For me personally, it is not a matter of experience but preparedness. I wholeheartedly believe that Obama is prepared for the office of POTUS. He's been right on foreign policy issues (and we see the Bush Administration continually following his lead on these issues) and he has a better grasp of the economic challenges that face the majority of Americans in this country.

I really don't buy the notion that because McCain has been around for such a long time that he is more PREPARED than Obama. Further, McCain's choice to continually lie in this election reminds me of the same behavior that Bush exhibited to take us into this Iraq war. I don't see McCain as a trustworthy leader.

And you do see Obama as trustworthy?

Once again I feel the need to remind you that John McCain is not George Bush. There has been such an effort from the liberal side of the house to try to make the two men one. John McCain is his own man and his general attitude about cooperation between the parties is far from what GWB has ever been about

Obama is not ready to lead a nation when his stated preferences is to make the military weaker, reduce spending on national defense and to unilaterally disarm us of nuclear weapons (also Russia, but we all know how honest and straight forward they are).

Obama has no executive experience, has been associated with a racist church, and has been associated with a known terrorist. If you trust him with the safety of your country it's your choice, but I've got to tell you that you don't know who he will sell out to when he becomes president, I do not think his loyalites lay with the U.S. as a nation.

Calcountry
09-12-2008, 02:48 PM
Obama campaign, which says there's nothing wrong and they're exactly where they want to be, has decided to "get tough". LOL. From Obama campaign manager David Plouffe:



So much for a different kind of campaign from Obama (and I say that for effect -- he SHOULD be fighting back as hard as possible if he wants to win). Their first example of "getting tough" is an ad that says McCain is an old guy who doesn't know how to use a computer. Way to alienate the elderly vote hot-shot -- and for the record we're electing a commander-in-chief, not a tech support guy.

Seriously, Obama fans, you need to get a new campaign manager in there before it's too late.
No doubt. Do you really want a POTUS chained in the basement of the White House, they do have a nice bunker down there, stuck on youtube all day?

Calcountry
09-12-2008, 02:49 PM
I just saw this ad and I'm actually beginning to wonder if someone WITHIN NObama's campaign or the DNC is covertly trying to sabatoge him.

It is going to appeal to NObama's crowd but to no one outside of it. If he's spending money to shore up his base at this point then he's worse off than I thought.If it walks like a Clintonista, and sounds like a Clintonista, it's a Clintonista.

vailpass
09-12-2008, 02:54 PM
1) No I don't think the POTUS can be totally clueless on the subjects (except the porn sites).

2) McCain was 893 out 897 (or something like that) in his class.

But the DNC tells us grades and class rankings don't matter when evaluating Biden. Is that true for all candidates or just the ones we like? Dammit where is the memo?

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 02:59 PM
And you do see Obama as trustworthy?

Once again I feel the need to remind you that John McCain is not George Bush. There has been such an effort from the liberal side of the house to try to make the two men one. John McCain is his own man and his general attitude about cooperation between the parties is far from what GWB has ever been about

Obama is not ready to lead a nation when his stated preferences is to make the military weaker, reduce spending on national defense and to unilaterally disarm us of nuclear weapons (also Russia, but we all know how honest and straight forward they are).

Obama has no executive experience, has been associated with a racist church, and has been associated with a known terrorist. If you trust him with the safety of your country it's your choice, but I've got to tell you that you don't know who he will sell out to when he becomes president, I do not think his loyalites lay with the U.S. as a nation.

Honestly, before this election cycle I would have agreed with you on McCain. But in this election cycle he has changed to be more like Bush and embrace his policies than ever before. He used to be his own man, but he's caved to his party in this election. When Bush guys are running his campaign I can't seperate him from Bush. Further what I said was that his continual lying in this campaign is reminiscent of Bush's lying to send us into this Iraq war. McCain has already admitted to lying because he wanted to win the 2000 nomination so badly. Now that he's exhibited the same behavior this time around, I can trust him to be POTUS.

Do I trust Obama? Yeah I do. Do I have concerns about Obama? Yeah I do. I'm concerned as to what may happen with the Supreme Court under Obama if he should have to appoint more than 1 judge. An ultra liberal Supreme Court is not good in my view, neither is an ultra conservative one. But am I concerned about Rev. Wright? Not really. Frankly, I don't think Obama was at church very often. His tithe and offerings bear that out. If you are going to make the he's his own man argument for McCain, you have to make it for Obama.

Am I concerned about Ayers? Not at all. That is really a huge reach.

As I said before, PREPAREDNESS is the issue for me, not being around Washington for 26 years. I believe Obama is very prepared.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 03:21 PM
Honestly, before this election cycle I would have agreed with you on McCain. But in this election cycle he has changed to be more like Bush and embrace his policies than ever before. He used to be his own man, but he's caved to his party in this election. When Bush guys are running his campaign I can't seperate him from Bush. Further what I said was that his continual lying in this campaign is reminiscent of Bush's lying to send us into this Iraq war. McCain has already admitted to lying because he wanted to win the 2000 nomination so badly. Now that he's exhibited the same behavior this time around, I can trust him to be POTUS.

Do I trust Obama? Yeah I do. Do I have concerns about Obama? Yeah I do. I'm concerned as to what may happen with the Supreme Court under Obama if he should have to appoint more than 1 judge. An ultra liberal Supreme Court is not good in my view, neither is an ultra conservative one. But am I concerned about Rev. Wright? Not really. Frankly, I don't think Obama was at church very often. His tithe and offerings bear that out. If you are going to make the he's his own man argument for McCain, you have to make it for Obama.

Am I concerned about Ayers? Not at all. That is really a huge reach.

As I said before, PREPAREDNESS is the issue for me, not being around Washington for 26 years. I believe Obama is very prepared.

That's where we differ. I see Obama as trouble for the country as I don't think he has what is best for America at heart. I didn't think that about McCain until he spoke at the convention.

Comparing the two speeches I found Obama as a blah blah type candidate. McCain actually wants to narrow the gap between liberalism and convservatism. The gap tends to grow wider every day.

Ayers wouldn't be an issue if he didn't make stupid remarks about his activities as a younger man. His picture standing on the U.S. flag is just not right and I think he would pose for that same shot today. That's one of the issues I have with him, another is his unapologitic manner in which he talks of how he didn't do enough.

irishjayhawk
09-12-2008, 03:45 PM
I might have missed it buried in all the Programmer ass-speak, but can someone answer this question:

How does that ad contradict the "change" he was bringing or his vow to "stop character attacks"?

I don't get it.

Programmer
09-12-2008, 04:02 PM
I might have missed it buried in all the Programmer ass-speak, but can someone answer this question:

How does that ad contradict the "change" he was bringing or his vow to "stop character attacks"?

I don't get it.


You know if you had a brain you be dangerous. But as we have seen there is no chance of you being dangerous, but you are still dumb and dumber all rolled into one.

Alphaman
09-12-2008, 04:45 PM
That's where we differ. I see Obama as trouble for the country as I don't think he has what is best for America at heart. I didn't think that about McCain until he spoke at the convention.

Comparing the two speeches I found Obama as a blah blah type candidate. McCain actually wants to narrow the gap between liberalism and convservatism. The gap tends to grow wider every day.

Ayers wouldn't be an issue if he didn't make stupid remarks about his activities as a younger man. His picture standing on the U.S. flag is just not right and I think he would pose for that same shot today. That's one of the issues I have with him, another is his unapologitic manner in which he talks of how he didn't do enough.

Fair enough. Interesting how we hear things differently. I found Obama's speech to be very inclusive. For example, he spoke about differing on the issue of abortion but said that preventing unwanted pregnancies from happening in the first place is something we can agree on. I found him to be (have found him to be so during this entire campaign) one who would try to find common ground and work from there. To be fair, I did hear quite a bit about reaching across the aisle from McCain but his entire campaign has caused him to retreat far to the right.

I do believe that Obama has what is best for the country at heart. I believe McCain does as well, but I disagree with what he thinks is best (on some issues). As I've stated before, I also don't think he's trustworthy. To be honest, your belief that Obama doesn't seems (I'm not saying it is, just seems to be) to be more of the "muslim", "anti-American" rumors that he's faced in this election.

tiptap
09-12-2008, 11:17 PM
Okay. :)

You miss the point that this ad doesn't do anything to knock McCain off-message and probably does more to endear him to other over 60 voters who are equally email illiterate than it does to make him look bad to younger voters. Watch -- McCain will turn this attack into a joke in his stump speech.

I would say that it is time to ridicule the Baby Boomers. Come and get us. After all the representation for our generation is Bush and McCain. You can even throw in Clinton if you want. Haven't you heard of enough about Baby Boomers. Don't you youngins want to play second fiddle to those in their 60's and 70's. Are you happy with the characterization that those who are technologically sophisticated are just inconsiderate and disrespectful.

Yeah vote to make the another early Baby Boomer in charge. You can be sure they will have your interests.

tiptap
09-12-2008, 11:24 PM
There is no gap in liberalism and conservatism today. Republicans are liberal in corporate welfare while Democrats are liberal in social welfare. Republicans are conservative in taxes but not spending and Democrats are conservative in taxing the rich for the corporate welfare. But if you want to say that McCain is looking to narrow this, I would say that that was the promise and the big lie for all of Bush's administration.

And we can see this is so because the McCain camp has already chosen a Big Oil person from the Petroleum Institute to head his transition team should he win the Presidency. No the group of people McCain has lined up is the same crowd and have the same game plan.

BigMeatballDave
09-12-2008, 11:27 PM
MCCAIN IS A HONKY!

Logical
09-12-2008, 11:44 PM
Dude, you honestly think that a President has time to surf the internet? Or that one would want to?

Your reliance on information on the internet is astounding. People across the nation live their lives without internet and without cell phones. Just because you can't find a way to function without them doesn't mean that the whole world is in the same rut that you are.Honestly I know not a living soul that does not use the internet and I sure as hell hope there are very few not using it that vote (well other than 60 and 70 year olds and older, hell even Skip navigates the Interweb.