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View Full Version : Elections Republicans: How do you feel about McCain's campaign?


Direckshun
09-14-2008, 02:20 PM
I don't know if I've seen this question asked here. McCain's up in the polls now but hey, we've seen guys on both sides run lousy campaigns and still win. Just because McCain's ahead doesn't mean you have to like his campaign.

As you probably are aware of, the popular conception right now is that McCain's campaign is running a cynical, distration-focused campaign designed to push conversation off the issues. His campaign is overwhelmingly attack-oriented and negative, and has been caught in a dozen or so blatant mistruths in the last two weeks since Palin has joined the ticket.

Do you feel their defenses of Palin in general, as well as McCain's record, have been believable and effective?

Do you feel like the campaign has been truthful?

Do you feel like they have honored McCain's desire for a united America intended to reach across party lines?

Do you think McCain/Palin have been blatantly provoking a culture war?

Do you believe the RNC was more then satisfactory?

Do you feel like they have amply made themselves available to the press, particularly Palin? Should this even matter?

Answer as comprehensively as you can.

(No doubt many could try to boomerang this thread back to the Obama campaign, but I ask that we keep the subject on McCain/Palin's campaign. I'll be happy to address Obama's campaign in a separate thread.)

Programmer
09-14-2008, 02:32 PM
It could be better, but then it could be worse. In either case McCain will win against Obama.

Direckshun
09-14-2008, 02:34 PM
If you look at it on purely winning or losing in November

No, that is specifically NOT how I look at it. That line of argument assumes that 100% of the people who have won elections have done so through campaigns of honor and pride. That is not the case.

I anticipated you'd respond that way, that's why I asked all those questions.

Winning an election only takes one more vote than the other guy. Being proud of a campaign takes a lot more than that. I was asking if you were there yet.

Direckshun
09-14-2008, 02:35 PM
It could be better, but then it could be worse.

How so?

NCarlsCorner2
09-14-2008, 02:40 PM
No, that is specifically NOT how I look at it. That line of argument assumes that 100% of the people who have won elections have done so through campaigns of honor and pride. That is not the case.

I anticipated you'd respond that way, that's why I asked all those questions.

Winning an election only takes one more vote than the other guy. Being proud of a campaign takes a lot more than that. I was asking if you were there yet.

McCain should be proud of the way that he has campaigned, Obama is the one that should be ashamed of how he's acting so arrogant and always throwing out little sarcastic remarks, shameful and the American people have picked up on it.

alnorth
09-14-2008, 03:13 PM
As you probably are aware of, the popular conception right now is that McCain's campaign is running a cynical, distration-focused campaign designed to push conversation off the issues. His campaign is overwhelmingly attack-oriented and negative, and has been caught in a dozen or so blatant mistruths in the last two weeks since Palin has joined the ticket.

That is the popular opinion of some journalists and the left. It obviously is not an opinion shared by the American people right now.

Do you feel their defenses of Palin in general, as well as McCain's record, have been believable and effective?

Well, if your going to be generic, yes. Not everything, but on the whole, sure.

Do you feel like the campaign has been truthful?

Again if your going to be generic, then generally yes. There are some issues where whether his stance is "wrong" or "correct" is up for debate which the dems have jumped on as "proof" of lies, but the rest of the country doesnt see it that way.

Do you feel like they have honored McCain's desire for a united America intended to reach across party lines?

Absolutely

Do you think McCain/Palin have been blatantly provoking a culture war?

Of course, and there is nothing wrong with that. I suspect that McCain would have preferred not to go there because of the risk of alienating a few social moderates, but he had no choice. The right-wing voters were so depressed they stopped calling themselves republicans on national polls and it was beginning to look like they were going to sit out in protest en masse.

Anyway, you may call it "culture war", but these social issues are legitimate political issues.

Do you believe the RNC was more then satisfactory?

Not a clue what your asking here.

Do you feel like they have amply made themselves available to the press, particularly Palin? Should this even matter?

Yes. McCain has been a public figure for eons, and Palin has answered, and will answer in future interviews/debates, plenty of questions to inform the voters. You may want her to be grilled every day for the next 6-7 weeks by a hostile and obviously-biased press, but the GOP would be stupid to play along.

Programmer
09-14-2008, 04:25 PM
How so?

Any way you want it to be Direckshun, any way you want it to be.

Direckshun
09-14-2008, 05:14 PM
Any way you want it to be Direckshun, any way you want it to be.

I'm just asking you to explain yourself, like alnorth.

Let us know where you're coming from.

Silock
09-14-2008, 05:23 PM
I hate it.

But then, I'm a disenfranchised Republican.

Programmer
09-14-2008, 05:47 PM
I'm just asking you to explain yourself, like alnorth.

Let us know where you're coming from.

It was a pretty generic comment.

It could be better, but then it could be worse.

Pretty much self explanitory.

You didn't get more because there wasn't more to be had. Life is a situation that could be better but it could also be worse.

To give you something that isn't there, It could be better - McCain could be ahead 70-20 in the polls. or he could be behind 40-50.

Direckshun
09-14-2008, 05:48 PM
It was a pretty generic comment.

It could be better, but then it could be worse.

Pretty much self explanitory.

You didn't get more because there wasn't more to be had. Life is a situation that could be better but it could also be worse.

To give you something that isn't there, It could be better - McCain could be ahead 70-20 in the polls. or he could be behind 40-50.

Well then perhaps you could answer my more specific, and less generic questions in the OP.

BucEyedPea
09-14-2008, 06:17 PM
I think Mac's campaign isn't all that. But I don't think all of it is false either.
It has had it's share of petty stuff though. The POW thing is overdone especially the hero part which plays into the fear junk.

I think the left though, is making bigger mistakes. You're going too far on your attacks on Palin, particularly on her family, and those have had lies in them too. It's a turn off. Some points are legitimate. But things like emails that Mac can't do? Seriously. Both sides need to stop. I do think Obama needs to answer some of the attacks and also attack back....but he's not doing it on the right things.

You're gonna lose if you keep it up. I don't want Mac in, even if I don't support most of the D platform. But I know how Obama can win...play up up the war angle. A D congress was put in to end this constant belligerence in tone and talks. They're ratings are even lower because they haven't turned out to be a true alternative. Why do the Ds think that's the way to win by not going after that. If polls are correct a war message is not a winner. It's not being exploited.

And I'll tell ya' why, because as Gravel says the Democratic party is also a party of war. They could run away with the Georgia Nato issue. Obama's initial reaction was correct then he was coached by someone. Is he going to be an empty suit for multinational corporations too. I mean it. You won't win unless you ARE DIFFERENT on this. That also include illegal immigration which Mac is also vulnerable on.

HonestChieffan
09-14-2008, 06:48 PM
Women supportive of a woman candidate is a culture war? My God in Heaven.

wazu
09-14-2008, 07:42 PM
Do you feel their defenses of Palin in general, as well as McCain's record, have been believable and effective? Yes.

Do you feel like the campaign has been truthful? No.

Do you feel like they have honored McCain's desire for a united America intended to reach across party lines? Yes.

Do you think McCain/Palin have been blatantly provoking a culture war?No.

Do you believe the RNC was more then satisfactory? Yes.

Do you feel like they have amply made themselves available to the press, particularly Palin? Yes. Should this even matter?No.

Answer as comprehensively as you can. Okay.

patteeu
09-14-2008, 08:49 PM
I don't know if I've seen this question asked here. McCain's up in the polls now but hey, we've seen guys on both sides run lousy campaigns and still win. Just because McCain's ahead doesn't mean you have to like his campaign.

As you probably are aware of, the popular conception right now is that McCain's campaign is running a cynical, distration-focused campaign designed to push conversation off the issues. His campaign is overwhelmingly attack-oriented and negative, and has been caught in a dozen or so blatant mistruths in the last two weeks since Palin has joined the ticket.

Do you feel their defenses of Palin in general, as well as McCain's record, have been believable and effective?

Do you feel like the campaign has been truthful?

Do you feel like they have honored McCain's desire for a united America intended to reach across party lines?

Do you think McCain/Palin have been blatantly provoking a culture war?

Do you believe the RNC was more then satisfactory?

Do you feel like they have amply made themselves available to the press, particularly Palin? Should this even matter?

Answer as comprehensively as you can.

(No doubt many could try to boomerang this thread back to the Obama campaign, but I ask that we keep the subject on McCain/Palin's campaign. I'll be happy to address Obama's campaign in a separate thread.)

I'm pleasantly surprised, but only mildly so and only because I expected a pretty hopeless campaign.

I'm not sure that I know about all these "mistruths" you're talking about, but the ones I'm aware of are very small potatoes, especially when compared to Obama mistruths like the one about fighting for 100 years in Iraq that he tried to smear McCain with months ago. (Who can blame McCain for fighting at the level to which Obama has already descended?).

The fact that the campaign is cynical, negative, and attack-oriented is a happy surprise as I expected McCain's campaign to be too soft.

patteeu
09-14-2008, 08:51 PM
Do you feel their defenses of Palin in general, as well as McCain's record, have been believable and effective? Yes.

Do you feel like the campaign has been truthful? No.

Do you feel like they have honored McCain's desire for a united America intended to reach across party lines? Yes.

Do you think McCain/Palin have been blatantly provoking a culture war?No.

Do you believe the RNC was more then satisfactory? Yes.

Do you feel like they have amply made themselves available to the press, particularly Palin? Yes. Should this even matter?No.

Answer as comprehensively as you can. Okay.

I agree with Adam on all of these except the one about a culture war. I think McCain/Palin are trying to introduce cultural issues into the campaign because they believe those are winning issues for them. Not very surprising really. I certainly wouldn't characterize it as "blatantly provoking a culture war" though. That war was started long before Palin was sworn in as Mayor of Wassilla. (or whatever the name of her town was).

alnorth
09-14-2008, 08:53 PM
As far as the "negative tone" stuff goes, the next time we have a completely high-road philosophical debate full of cordial disagreement, it would be the first time.

According to a recent interesting story I read, even the very first American presidential election was very negative. The two candidates didnt get down into the mud, but let their surrogates trash the other guy, similar to today.

The first real presidential contest in American history turned out to be exuberantly venomous. On both sides handbills, pamphlets, and articles in party newspapers denounced, disparaged, damned, decried, denigrated, and declaimed. There were plenty of issues. For the Federalists there was Jefferson's sympathy for the French Revolution despite the guillotine and the Terror; and there was also his religious heterodoxy. The Republicans had Adams's lack of faith in the people to harp on as well as his preference for high-toned government...

Adams and Jefferson themselves remained on good terms during their contest and neither deigned to take an active part in it. But their followers throughout the land filled the air with charges and counter-charges.

Possible John Adams commercial:

France. Tens of thousands brutally executed in what the Times calls the Reign of Terror.
Jefferson's response? Celebration. He says he'd rather see "half the earth desolated" than watch those fanatical tyrants fail.

Half the earth desolated?

Jefferson. Radical. Dangerous. Wrong.

"I'm John Adams and I approved this message."

Ultra Peanut
09-14-2008, 08:55 PM
If you look at it on purely winning or losing in November, McCain is running a brilliant campaign. Bush has a 30% approval rating, and McCain is winning...... enough said.After the Republicans in Congress got tossed out on their asses, McCain was still incredibly popular. He's done an excellent job of cultivating his Maverick image for the past 15-20 years, and it's insulated him from Generic Republican status.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:10 AM
Well then perhaps you could answer my more specific, and less generic questions in the OP.

Do you feel their defenses of Palin in general, as well as McCain's record, have been believable and effective? YES

Do you feel like the campaign has been truthful? YES

Do you feel like they have honored McCain's desire for a united America intended to reach across party lines? YES

Do you think McCain/Palin have been blatantly provoking a culture war? NO

Do you believe the RNC was more then satisfactory? YES

Do you feel like they have amply made themselves available to the press, particularly Palin? YES

Should this even matter? NO

Guru
09-15-2008, 08:07 AM
I hate all negative campaigns. Unfortunately, that is politics as usual these days.