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dallaschiefsfan
09-15-2008, 10:31 AM
Len dawson on 810 just said that the philosophy and manner of how Herm is going about building this team will take 5-6 years for them to be playoff competitive. What the ef? WHO takes that long in today's NFL to build a winner? Either Len is wrong OR he's making a statement as to the wrong-headed approach to rebuilding that Herm is taking. Surely Len didn't make that statement expecting people to accept such nonsense?!?

Goapics1
09-15-2008, 10:32 AM
Arizona has taken longer than 5-6 yrs.

Sure-Oz
09-15-2008, 10:33 AM
hahahaha....Len probably wants herm OUT

FringeNC
09-15-2008, 10:33 AM
Arizona has taken longer than 5-6 yrs.

And that is the franchise we wish to emulate?

King_Chief_Fan
09-15-2008, 10:33 AM
Arizona has taken longer than 5-6 yrs.

there you have it, we are now the AZ Cardinals

Dicky McElephant
09-15-2008, 10:34 AM
hahahaha....Len probably wants herm OUT

I'm starting to jump on that train.

Goapics1
09-15-2008, 10:34 AM
And that is the franchise we wish to emulate?

Trying to look on the bright side, work with me here.

dallaschiefsfan
09-15-2008, 10:35 AM
Arizona has taken longer than 5-6 yrs.

Yeah...but since when did they aspire to greatness as a franchise?!?

DJ's left nut
09-15-2008, 10:36 AM
Can't realistically be done.

With the salary cap and the nature of NFL contracts (backloaded, generally only about 3-5 years long, realistically), there's just no way to do it over that period of time. By the time you're competitive, the first members of your 'rebuilt' squad are now FA eligible or starting to decline.

The era of the 5 year plan is over. It should never take more than 3 seasons to get a team back to playoff competition stage, IMO.

I hate Herm.

dallaschiefsfan
09-15-2008, 10:38 AM
Can't realistically be done.

With the salary cap and the nature of NFL contracts (backloaded, generally only about 3-5 years long, realistically), there's just no way to do it over that period of time. By the time you're competitive, the first members of your 'rebuilt' squad are now FA eligible or starting to decline.

The era of the 5 year plan is over. It should never take more than 3 seasons to get a team back to playoff competition stage, IMO.

I hate Herm.

Exactly. Herm's "style" is so obviously flawed that I'm amazed more in the national media don't mock the way this franchise is run.

Micjones
09-15-2008, 10:38 AM
No rebuild should take 5-6 years.
But when you have no direction...

Clark please intervene.

penguinz
09-15-2008, 10:43 AM
he's making a statement as to the wrong-headed approach to rebuilding that Herm is taking. Bingo

Deberg_1990
09-15-2008, 10:44 AM
It took DV two years to get competitive and 3 years to complete his plan.

Just for comparisons sake.

Herm is a complete fool.

dirk digler
09-15-2008, 10:45 AM
Can't realistically be done.

With the salary cap and the nature of NFL contracts (backloaded, generally only about 3-5 years long, realistically), there's just no way to do it over that period of time. By the time you're competitive, the first members of your 'rebuilt' squad are now FA eligible or starting to decline.

The era of the 5 year plan is over. It should never take more than 3 seasons to get a team back to playoff competition stage, IMO.

I hate Herm.

Yep. In today's NFL no longer than 3. Hell alot of teams turn it around in 1 year.

gblowfish
09-15-2008, 10:48 AM
At least Arizona won yesterday. Can't bag on them. They're doing better than we are.

FringeNC
09-15-2008, 10:48 AM
Can't realistically be done.

With the salary cap and the nature of NFL contracts (backloaded, generally only about 3-5 years long, realistically), there's just no way to do it over that period of time. By the time you're competitive, the first members of your 'rebuilt' squad are now FA eligible or starting to decline.

The era of the 5 year plan is over. It should never take more than 3 seasons to get a team back to playoff competition stage, IMO.

I hate Herm.

Bingo. Herm has had 3 f'n drafts. If can't get it done by then, he can't get it done.

cookster50
09-15-2008, 10:53 AM
Bingo. Herm has had 3 f'n drafts. If can't get it done by then, he can't get it done.

But but but but, Herm is a great talent evaluater!!!!!

beach tribe
09-15-2008, 10:58 AM
But but but but, Herm is a great talent evaluater!!!!!

I guess that's why the 06 draft has yielded 0 bonafide players.

I always wondered where this rumor started about herm's evaluations. Who the **** has he ever drafted that was rthat great? L. Coles?....wow.

Deberg_1990
09-15-2008, 10:58 AM
But but but but, Herm is a great talent evaluater!!!!!


He might be, but our coaching staff is so bad and Herms philosophy in general so flawed, hes preventing alot of these guys from ever reaching full potential. Hes stunting growth.

dallaschiefsfan
09-15-2008, 10:59 AM
But but but but, Herm is a great talent evaluater!!!!!

You know...it's funny...Herm drafts pretty good actually. But everything is in context. We're so used to horrific drafting by Carl that Herm looks like a genius...when in truth, he's probably just average and drafts in a conventional way...which looks brilliant after Carl's "Trezelle Jenkins-like" tendencies.

Having said all that...Herm is a terrible game-day coach...so any argument is moot. He would find a way to coach last year's New England Patriots to an 8-8 record. Talent isn't enough...drafting well isn't enough...

Fish
09-15-2008, 11:02 AM
WHO takes that long in today's NFL to build a winner? Either Len is wrong OR he's making a statement as to the wrong-headed approach to rebuilding that Herm is taking. Surely Len didn't make that statement expecting people to accept such nonsense?!?

Detroit Lions, 1996-2007:

5-11
9-7
5-11
8-8
9-7
2-14
3-13
5-11
6-10
5-11
3-13
7-9

Cleveland Browns, 1995-2007:
5-11
2-14
3-13
7-9
9-7
5-11
4-12
6-10
4-12
10-6

Washington Redskins, 2000-2007:
8-8
8-8
7-9
5-11
6-10
10-6
5-11
9-7

Houston Texans, 2002-2007:
4-12
5-11
7-9
2-14
6-10
8-8

Raiders, 2003-2007:
4-12
5-11
4-12
2-14
4-12

49ers, 2003-2007:
7-9
2-14
4-12
7-9
5-11

Bengals, 1998-2007:
3-13
4-12
4-12
6-10
2-14
8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9

Falcons, 1999-2007:
5-11
4-12
7-9
9-7
5-11
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-12

FringeNC
09-15-2008, 11:03 AM
Detroit Lions, 1996-2007:

5-11
9-7
5-11
8-8
9-7
2-14
3-13
5-11
6-10
5-11
3-13
7-9

Cleveland Browns, 1995-2007:
5-11
2-14
3-13
7-9
9-7
5-11
4-12
6-10
4-12
10-6

Washington Redskins, 2000-2007:
8-8
8-8
7-9
5-11
6-10
10-6
5-11
9-7

Houston Texans, 2002-2007:
4-12
5-11
7-9
2-14
6-10
8-8

Raiders, 2003-2007:
4-12
5-11
4-12
2-14
4-12

49ers, 2003-2007:
7-9
2-14
4-12
7-9
5-11

Bengals, 1998-2007:
3-13
4-12
4-12
6-10
2-14
8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9

Falcons, 1999-2007:
5-11
4-12
7-9
9-7
5-11
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-12

Thanks for making our point. That's not rebuilding. Those are incompetently run franchises.

Nzoner
09-15-2008, 11:06 AM
Thanks for making our point. That's not rebuilding. Those are incompetently run franchises.

Can't argue with that

DaFace
09-15-2008, 11:09 AM
Thanks for making our point. That's not rebuilding. Those are incompetently run franchises.

I'm not so sure that we aren't at this point.

TREX
09-15-2008, 11:09 AM
Len dawson on 810 just said that the philosophy and manner of how Herm is going about building this team will take 5-6 years for them to be playoff competitive. What the ef? WHO takes that long in today's NFL to build a winner? Either Len is wrong OR he's making a statement as to the wrong-headed approach to rebuilding that Herm is taking. Surely Len didn't make that statement expecting people to accept such nonsense?!?
I do not understand how Herm has pulled this HC thing off. The only success he has had is with prior staffs players. In NY he ran the JETS into the ground in a short period of time. The same is happening here. First year 9-7 playoff team w/DVs players. Then 4-12 and now possibly 0-16. If this is his idea of rebuilding we should want no part of it. If you want examples on how to really rebuild a team you can look how the Broncos or Packers have gone about it. CP should have been run out of town 15 years ago. I respected Lamar Hunt but he enabled CP the security to make horrific decisions and field mediocre to lousy football teams. I hope Clark stands by what he has said. If this team does not become competitive he must and I hope will finally end the CP regime. The decision to hire Herm has to be the last straw for CP.

FringeNC
09-15-2008, 11:10 AM
I'm not so sure that we aren't at this point.

I am SURE that we are at that point.

Deberg_1990
09-15-2008, 11:10 AM
That's not rebuilding. Those are incompetently run franchises.


Which it appears the Chiefs are now in that category it pains me to say.

ChiefsCountry
09-15-2008, 11:10 AM
I guess that's why the 06 draft has yielded 0 bonafide players.


I would say Hali, Pollard, and Page are pretty productive players. They arent superstars by no means. But they are nice building block pieces considering where they were drafted.

Fish
09-15-2008, 11:10 AM
Thanks for making our point. That's not rebuilding. Those are incompetently run franchises.

That is what happens when you ignore rebuilding and try to win now. That is an example of how bad it could get. That's an example of how hard it is to build and maintain a franchise.

Len is right.

dirk digler
09-15-2008, 11:12 AM
I am SURE that we are at that point.

Yep. We are definitely in the bottom 5

Fish
09-15-2008, 11:13 AM
I'm not so sure that we aren't at this point.

Exactly. That's the point. We suck and we have for a while. People just don't realize how bad we were(are). And to expect us to just jump out of the rut and be winners is not very realistic.

It takes time.

FAX
09-15-2008, 11:13 AM
No rebuild should take 5-6 years.
But when you have no direction...

Clark please intervene.

Depending on things like wacky players who don't work out because they wind up doing time in the ol' maximum security slammer, injuries, cap problems, blown draft picks, etc. it could take that long, but it shouldn't have to. I agree with those who think that 3 years is about right. By that time, the core of the team should be in place and you can use FA to fill any remaining holes.

But, think about our QB situation. If Croyle isn't the guy, we have to have a new guy. If we get a new guy via the draft, the earliest that guy can join our other guys is next year (2nd year of the plan). Then, that guy has to practice with the other guys, gain real world game experience playing against enemy guys, and get some wins against those guys under his belt. That's at least 1 year - more realistically, at least 2 (or the 4th year of the plan, in this case).

Lenny may not be far off.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
09-15-2008, 11:15 AM
Which it appears the Chiefs are now in that category it pains me to say.

NOW?

News flash people:

THEY HAVE BEEN.

19 years of mediocrity doesn't mean the franchise hasn't been swimming in incompetence...

dirk digler
09-15-2008, 11:15 AM
Exactly. That's the point. We suck and we have for a while. People just don't realize how bad we were(are). And to expect us to just jump out of the rut and be winners is not very realistic.

It takes time.

We have been to the playoffs 2 out of 5 years so that is not complete suckage.

With the right people in charge this could be done in less than 3 years easy.

bowener
09-15-2008, 11:16 AM
Clark please intervene.

ROFL not going to happen... in time for anything.

Deberg_1990
09-15-2008, 11:17 AM
NOW?

News flash people:

THEY HAVE BEEN.

19 years of mediocrity doesn't mean the franchise hasn't been swimming in incompetence...

Id say from 89-97 we were one of the better run franchises in football.

98 to now, has been mediocre to disasterous....

Fish
09-15-2008, 11:17 AM
We have been to the playoffs 2 out of 5 years so that is not complete suckage.

With the right people in charge this could be done in less than 3 years easy.

Please..... we had no ****ing business at all being in the playoffs those 2 years. Evidenced by how we did in those 2 games. You can't tell me you honestly think we had a chance to win a playoff game those years.

beach tribe
09-15-2008, 11:17 AM
I would say Hali, Pollard, and Page are pretty productive players. They arent superstars by no means. But they are nice building block pieces considering where they were drafted.

I wanted to think that, but every team who watches film will run right over Hali, Page cannot be counted on to make an open field tackle, and Morgan will have Pollard's job by next season.

dirk digler
09-15-2008, 11:20 AM
Please..... we had no ****ing business at all being in the playoffs those 2 years. Evidenced by how we did in those 2 games. You can't tell me you honestly think we had a chance to win a playoff game those years.

2003? I thought we could have easily gone to the SB.

2006 we were just lucky.

But if you compare us to the Cardinals, Lions, and Browns then I say we are a little better

ChiefsCountry
09-15-2008, 11:21 AM
I wanted to think that, but every team who watches film will run right over Hali, Page cannot be counted on to make an open field tackle, and Morgan will have Pollard's job by next season.

But the two young safeties have been making some plays as well. They were the two that forced the fumble yesterday. Page saved a touchdown with a great play to deflect a ball.

bowener
09-15-2008, 11:21 AM
But, think about our QB situation. If Croyle isn't the guy, we have to have a new guy. If we get a new guy via the draft, the earliest that guy can join our other guys is next year (2nd year of the plan). Then, that guy has to practice with the other guys, gain real world game experience playing against enemy guys, and get some wins against those guys under his belt. That's at least 1 year - more realistically, at least 2 (or the 4th year of the plan, in this case).

Lenny may not be far off.

FAX

You seem to have a very good point, Fax, and I agree with you. Lenny, being a qb, probably is thinking along those same lines as well.

Nzoner
09-15-2008, 11:25 AM
Please..... we had no ****ing business at all being in the playoffs those 2 years. Evidenced by how we did in those 2 games. You can't tell me you honestly think we had a chance to win a playoff game those years.

Any team that goes 13-3 in the NFL has business in the play-offs and had it not been for the Priest Holmes fumble we really don't know what could have been.True,our defense couldn't stop shit but at least it was fun while the ride lasted.

DV=Rollercoaster ride

Herm=Slow boat to China

dirk digler
09-15-2008, 11:31 AM
Any team that goes 13-3 in the NFL has business in the play-offs and had it not been for the Priest Holmes fumble we really don't know what could have been.True,our defense couldn't stop shit but at least it was fun while the ride lasted.

DV=Rollercoaster ride

Herm=Slow boat to China

Yep. Anybody that doesn't believe a 13-3 team doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs is pretty stupid.

luv
09-15-2008, 11:33 AM
Just goes to show the vast difference between evaluating talent and developing it.

Reerun_KC
09-15-2008, 11:34 AM
DV=Rollercoaster ride

Herm=Slowly sinking to find the Titanic

:shake:

OnTheWarpath58
09-15-2008, 11:34 AM
Yep. Anybody that doesn't believe a 13-3 team doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs is pretty stupid.

I think you guys are glossing over Fish's point.

You can get away with not playing defense in the regular season.

You can't in the playoffs, and it showed in the FIRST game. It only would have gotten tougher, later.

Getting to the playoffs is one thing, having a team that is actually capable of winning a championship is another.

That team had NO SHOT at winning a championship, they had a fatal flaw:

The defense.

Kaylore
09-15-2008, 12:04 PM
The comment is stupid. One good draft class can flip an organization for years. Five years? Draft picks are free agents by then. There is no "plan" that is designed to take five years.

Redrum_69
09-15-2008, 12:05 PM
Len Dawson for GM?

Reerun_KC
09-15-2008, 12:07 PM
I think you guys are glossing over Fish's point.

You can get away with not playing defense in the regular season.

You can't in the playoffs, and it showed in the FIRST game. It only would have gotten tougher, later.

Getting to the playoffs is one thing, having a team that is actually capable of winning a championship is another.

That team had NO SHOT at winning a championship, they had a fatal flaw:

The defense.

Just like Marty's team of 95 and 98, neither had a shot a winning a championship because both teams played like ass on offense....

cjp27
09-15-2008, 12:10 PM
Arizona has taken longer than 5-6 yrs.

At least Arizona has a playoff win more recently than us

Chief Faithful
09-15-2008, 12:32 PM
I guess that's why the 06 draft has yielded 0 bonafide players.

I always wondered where this rumor started about herm's evaluations. Who the **** has he ever drafted that was rthat great? L. Coles?....wow.

Your bitterness for herm is blocking your view for what good is happening. 5 of 7 drafted still on the team from 2006. 4 starters and 1 top backup that is a good draft. 2006 was Herm's first draft before they re-organized the scouting department. That is a better draft record than DV or Gun and Herm's drafts since continue to improve so it was not a one time lucky draft.

The one area I agree with all the haters is the choice of Huard and Pigpen as backups for Croyle. It was stooopid to think Huard is valuable to a rebuilding project and Pigpen has showed nothing on the field as a sign he will develop. I like Croyle, but everyone knows he is made of glass so he won't last long behind an OLine in the rebuilding phase. No matter what approach is taken to rebuilding it requires they address the QB position.

Other than QB I am please the team finally decided to really rebuild and I am impressed with the talent they have managed to find in the last three drafts. They also dumped a bunch of really bad players and coaches while picking up two Coaches, Gailey and Price, that are top notch and I believe they will get the offense turned around.

I'm just pissed that Herm and Carl put this team in a position where the season is dependant on Croyle's health. :cuss:

Coach
09-15-2008, 12:35 PM
Len dawson on 810 just said that the philosophy and manner of how Herm is going about building this team will take 5-6 years for them to be playoff competitive. What the ef? WHO takes that long in today's NFL to build a winner? Either Len is wrong OR he's making a statement as to the wrong-headed approach to rebuilding that Herm is taking. Surely Len didn't make that statement expecting people to accept such nonsense?!?

Len is right. Herm's philosophy is not going to cut it in today's NFL. In today's NFL, you have to pass in order to set the run. See Steelers, Colts, and Patriots for good measure.

dallaschiefsfan
09-15-2008, 01:32 PM
That is what happens when you ignore rebuilding and try to win now. That is an example of how bad it could get. That's an example of how hard it is to build and maintain a franchise.

Len is right.

Yes...Len is right. But Len didn't say anything of what you suggest in your statement. I reject your premise that "win now" has anything to do with the length of time it takes to rebuild this team. You seem hell-bent on laying everything at the feet of pre-herm leadership. Fine. I disagree...but fine.

But you're letting your pre-herm hate cloud your reasoning. Under NO circumstances does it take 5-6 years to recover from the worst of situations if an organization is coached well. This is the NFL. Even if you draft poorly, a well-coached team does better than this POS team that Herm fields.

It is obvious that Herm is completely lost on game day...the worst game-plan coach we've had since Gunther. After watching the last two weeks, I'm convinced this team would be 2-0 under a different head coach. Did you SEE Tony G's look of bewilderment at what was going on? That game plan was HORRIBLE.

I'm so sick of this shit of an excuse that somehow the hole is so deep that it's going to take the Herm 5-6 years. Nonsense. If Herm's even an average football coach, he should be able to clean up the mess of a 3rd grader running this franchise within two years. No excuses.

ChiefsCountry
09-15-2008, 01:33 PM
In all honesty 2010-2011 is about right depending on the QB situation. It would take a miracle bc of the lack of talent this team has.

dallaschiefsfan
09-15-2008, 01:39 PM
In all honesty 2010-2011 is about right depending on the QB situation. It would take a miracle bc of the lack of talent this team has.

I would agree on the talent EXCEPT...I'm not even sure of what we have. I'm not convinced we know what we have due to the poor coaching. While I wouldn't want Marty as our coach, I'd be seriously curious as to what this team would look like coming out of a Marty training camp. At least you usually knew what you had with Marty.

FringeNC
09-15-2008, 01:41 PM
Yes...Len is right. But Len didn't say anything of what you suggest in your statement. I reject your premise that "win now" has anything to do with the length of time it takes to rebuild this team. You seem hell-bent on laying everything at the feet of pre-herm leadership. Fine. I disagree...but fine.

But you're letting your pre-herm hate cloud your reasoning. Under NO circumstances does it take 5-6 years to recover from the worst of situations if an organization is coached well. This is the NFL. Even if you draft poorly, a well-coached team does better than this POS team that Herm fields.

It is obvious that Herm is completely lost on game day...the worst game-plan coach we've had since Gunther. After watching the last two weeks, I'm convinced this team would be 2-0 under a different head coach. Did you SEE Tony G's look of bewilderment at what was going on? That game plan was HORRIBLE.

I'm so sick of this shit of an excuse that somehow the hole is so deep that it's going to take the Herm 5-6 years. Nonsense. If Herm's even an average football coach, he should be able to clean up the mess of a 3rd grader running this franchise within two years. No excuses.

Yep. Vermeil did not leave this team in cap hell, which is the 49ers had to deal with for awhile. [Although the team Vermeil inherited was in bad, bad shape cap wise.] If you're not in cap hell, there is no reason for it taking more than a few years to rebuild. This whole thing that Herm should be given more time because he waited to blow up the team is absurd. He's had three f'n drafts to rebuild the roster.

Reerun_KC
09-15-2008, 01:44 PM
Yes...Len is right. But Len didn't say anything of what you suggest in your statement. I reject your premise that "win now" has anything to do with the length of time it takes to rebuild this team. You seem hell-bent on laying everything at the feet of pre-herm leadership. Fine. I disagree...but fine.

But you're letting your pre-herm hate cloud your reasoning. Under NO circumstances does it take 5-6 years to recover from the worst of situations if an organization is coached well. This is the NFL. Even if you draft poorly, a well-coached team does better than this POS team that Herm fields.

It is obvious that Herm is completely lost on game day...the worst game-plan coach we've had since Gunther. After watching the last two weeks, I'm convinced this team would be 2-0 under a different head coach. Did you SEE Tony G's look of bewilderment at what was going on? That game plan was HORRIBLE.

I'm so sick of this shit of an excuse that somehow the hole is so deep that it's going to take the Herm 5-6 years. Nonsense. If Herm's even an average football coach, he should be able to clean up the mess of a 3rd grader running this franchise within two years. No excuses.

Well Damn he is in his 3rd ****ing year here!

People act like he just started this year and still blame DV 3 years later... At some point Herm has to be responsible for this shit...

Reerun_KC
09-15-2008, 01:46 PM
Yep. Vermeil did not leave this team in cap hell, which is the 49ers had to deal with for awhile. [Although the team Vermeil inherited was in bad, bad shape cap wise.] If you're not in cap hell, there is no reason for it taking more than a few years to rebuild. This whole thing that Herm should be given more time because he waited to blow up the team is absurd. He's had three f'n drafts to rebuild the roster.


And if he was so ****ing awesome at drafting, We wouldnt be sucking ass at home running behind this shitty line he is failing to address... Just like in NYJ.

ChiefsCountry
09-15-2008, 01:49 PM
I would agree on the talent EXCEPT...I'm not even sure of what we have.

Its pretty easy to know what we have its:

Offense
Tony G
LJ
Bowe
Waters
Charles
Smith
Albert
Rudy
Franklin
Cottam

Defense
Dorsey
Tank
Turk
Hali
DJ
Demorrio Williams
Flowers
Carr
Page
Pollard
Morgan
Colquitt

And the big if is Croyle. Surtain & Donnie are way past their primes to be included in this talk.

Rest of our guys arent really NFL players on a Super Bowl type team.

dallaschiefsfan
09-15-2008, 02:19 PM
Its pretty easy to know what we have its:

Offense
Tony G
LJ
Bowe
Waters
Charles
Smith
Albert
Rudy
Franklin
Cottam

Defense
Dorsey
Tank
Turk
Hali
DJ
Demorrio Williams
Flowers
Carr
Page
Pollard
Morgan
Colquitt

And the big if is Croyle. Surtain & Donnie are way past their primes to be included in this talk.

Rest of our guys arent really NFL players on a Super Bowl type team.

Well...that might be true, but I'm simply not convinced yet. The only standouts so far seem to be the young corners. I think that speaks to Herm's one coaching strength. Other than that, I'm not convinced some of these guys could be shown to be a better player if coached well and placed in a system that would leverage their skills. More than one star player has looked bad in the wrong system. Not that systems are everything...but they aren't nothing. Consider Casey "too old" Wiegman and his performance in Denver.

dirk digler
09-15-2008, 02:29 PM
I would agree on the talent EXCEPT...I'm not even sure of what we have. I'm not convinced we know what we have due to the poor coaching. While I wouldn't want Marty as our coach, I'd be seriously curious as to what this team would look like coming out of a Marty training camp. At least you usually knew what you had with Marty.

You sure wouldn't have the Raiders run for over 300 yds.

I would be curious what was the highest rushing total in a single game by an opposing team that Marty coached while with the Chiefs.

Fish
09-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Yes...Len is right. But Len didn't say anything of what you suggest in your statement. I reject your premise that "win now" has anything to do with the length of time it takes to rebuild this team. You seem hell-bent on laying everything at the feet of pre-herm leadership. Fine. I disagree...but fine.

No... "win now" has absolutely nothing to do with the length of time it takes to rebuild. I'm not sure where you got that idea. "Win now" is strictly the fans, and Carl's effort to appease them and make money.

But you're letting your pre-herm hate cloud your reasoning. Under NO circumstances does it take 5-6 years to recover from the worst of situations if an organization is coached well. This is the NFL. Even if you draft poorly, a well-coached team does better than this POS team that Herm fields.

First off, I'm not convinced that we're that well coached. Secondly, yes it does take 5-6 years in some cases. As evidenced by some of the records I posted earlier. If it were truly that easy, then those teams would have had more success. Obviously they haven't had that success. If it were that easy, then Detroit or Cleveland or Cincinnati or Atlanta would have turned things around by now. But they haven't. And they've tried. Their fans have been just as frustrated, if not more so. They demanded people to be fired too. See the results it has gotten them? Replacing this coach and that coach doesn't have the miracle effect you think when the organization is in that bad of shape.

It is obvious that Herm is completely lost on game day...the worst game-plan coach we've had since Gunther. After watching the last two weeks, I'm convinced this team would be 2-0 under a different head coach. Did you SEE Tony G's look of bewilderment at what was going on? That game plan was HORRIBLE.

I'm so sick of this shit of an excuse that somehow the hole is so deep that it's going to take the Herm 5-6 years. Nonsense. If Herm's even an average football coach, he should be able to clean up the mess of a 3rd grader running this franchise within two years. No excuses.

How do you expect him to game-plan having half of an offensive line? Linebackers that can't tackle? Kickoffs at the 15 with the game on the line? Rookie mistakes like Carr blocking Donnie on the TD run? Do you think game planning could actually overcome that?

Coaching can only do so much when you're not getting execution on the field. Granted our coaches called a completely shit game. I'm not denying that. It was horrible. But even the best of coaches would struggle with a very crappy team.

StcChief
09-15-2008, 03:09 PM
Exactly. Herm's "style" is so obviously flawed that I'm amazed more in the national media don't mock the way this franchise is run. they can't or be looked upon as Racist.... Conservative coach.
D minded, former player etc.... don't mess with NFL and a minority issue. AA still promoted in the good old boys club.... He'll make a GM yet.

Simply Red
09-15-2008, 03:30 PM
Yeah, listening to him (which I never did) on Sunday, He was NOT pleased and was pretty much taking shots at the organization, I'm glad he did too.

Simply Red
09-15-2008, 03:45 PM
The comment is stupid. One good draft class can flip an organization for years. Five years? Draft picks are free agents by then. There is no "plan" that is designed to take five years.

I'm sorry, perhaps you've yet to be notified, The only Donkey posters allowed in here are: ListoPencil, Cleveland, BB, MileHigh, Moonshiner and Vailpass. Please leave, nobody gives a shit about your opinion.

Simply Red
09-15-2008, 03:46 PM
That's how GayLord treats us when we go over there. :grr:

TEX
09-15-2008, 03:56 PM
Len dawson on 810 just said that the philosophy and manner of how Herm is going about building this team will take 5-6 years for them to be playoff competitive. What the ef? WHO takes that long in today's NFL to build a winner? Either Len is wrong OR he's making a statement as to the wrong-headed approach to rebuilding that Herm is taking. Surely Len didn't make that statement expecting people to accept such nonsense?!?

Herm is the WRONG guy for this job. All the Herm supporters are foolish. The guy flat out sucks and so does Carl. BOTH need to go. It's so obvious. I coud give a shit about this team now and I know I'm not alone...

Calcountry
09-15-2008, 04:10 PM
Bingo. Herm has had 3 f'n drafts. If can't get it done by then, he can't get it done.
Honestly, that was the first game that I got to see this year, and it looked worse than the shit they posted last year. I did the right thing by cancelling Sunday Ticket. That abortion was hard to watch. What is kind of ironically funny though, is listening to all the optimism this win has created for the Raider Nation. As if they have somehow turned a corner. Little do they realize that it is the overall SUCKAGE of our coaches that has made the Chiefs once feared AH game a mere speedbump on the way to a victory.

KC Tattoo
09-15-2008, 04:13 PM
Oh I get it, he is talking about the Carl Peterson 5 year plan!






:doh!: